NationStates Jolt Archive

Recently the mayor of New Orleans, who is black, stated such comments as, New Orleans will be "chocolate" again, thats the way God wills it to be.

"It's time for us to come together. It's time for us to rebuild New Orleans — the one that should be a chocolate New Orleans," the mayor said. "This city will be a majority African American city. It's the way God wants it to be. You can't have New Orleans no other way. It wouldn't be New Orleans." -were his exact words

Now is this a double standard or what!?

Lets change some words around. "It's time for us to come together. It's time for us to rebuild Detroit - the one that should be a vanilla Detroit," the mayor said. "This city will be a majority White American city. It's the way God wants it to be. You can't have Detroit no other way. It wouldnt be Detroit."

Needless to say, if that were said, the speaker would be branded with by white hot brands that say "bigot", "racist", "hater"....etc then, without a doubt, burned at the stake.

This hypocritic double standard is getting WAY too old. There seems to be only 2 ways to solve this double standard.

1. blacks must be held accountable of this sort of racist trash, just like whites are.
2. neither race be held accountable by their remarks...thereby allowing both races to issue racial statements such as the above.

Its either both or neither. I am getting sick and tired of this shit.

Source: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060117/ap_on_re_us/katrina_nagin;_ylt=Ale_B7uCdGkgXJlsYxNACCys0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA3b2NibDltBHNlYwM3MTY-

The story:
NEW ORLEANS - Mayor Ray Nagin suggested Monday that Hurricanes Katrina and Rita and other storms were a sign that "God is mad at America" and at black communities, too, for tearing themselves apart with violence and political infighting.

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"Surely God is mad at America. He sent us hurricane after hurricane after hurricane, and it's destroyed and put stress on this country," Nagin, who is black, said as he and other city leaders marked Martin Luther King Day.

"Surely he doesn't approve of us being in Iraq under false pretenses. But surely he is upset at black America also. We're not taking care of ourselves."

Nagin also promised that New Orleans will be a "chocolate" city again. Many of the city's black neighborhoods were heavily damaged by Katrina.

"It's time for us to come together. It's time for us to rebuild New Orleans — the one that should be a chocolate New Orleans," the mayor said. "This city will be a majority African American city. It's the way God wants it to be. You can't have New Orleans no other way. It wouldn't be New Orleans."

Nagin described an imaginary conversation with King, the late civil rights leader.

"I said, `What is it going to take for us to move on and live your dream and make it a reality?' He said, `I don't think that we need to pay attention any more as much about other folks and racists on the other side.' He said, `The thing we need to focus on as a community — black folks I'm talking about — is ourselves.'"

Nagin said he also asked: "Why is black-on-black crime such an issue? Why do our young men hate each other so much that they look their brother in the face and they will take a gun and kill him in cold blood?"

The reply, Nagin said, was: "We as a people need to fix ourselves first."

Nagin also said King would have been dismayed with black leaders who are "most of the time tearing each other down publicly for the delight of many."

A day earlier, gunfire erupted at a parade to commemorate King's birthday. Three people were wounded in the daylight shooting amid a throng of mostly black spectators, but police said there were no immediate suspects or witnesses.

Detriot should be flooded with pudding.

Detriot should be flooded with pudding.

Of course it should...vanilla pudding...thats the way God wants it.

Of course it should...vanilla pudding...thats the way God wants it.

What about a compromise? How about Butterscotch?

What about a compromise? How about Butterscotch?

Depends on what God thinks...let me call up mayor nagin, since he and God seem to be buddy buddy all of a sudden.

Of course it should...vanilla pudding...thats the way God wants it.
I don't care for vanilla pudding. I demand that Detroit be flooded with chocolate pudding!

I don't care for vanilla pudding. I demand that Detroit be flooded with chocolate pudding!

Racist!

We shall overcome, we shall overcome, we shall overcome the pudding...

I don't care for vanilla pudding. I demand that Detroit be flooded with chocolate pudding!

I demand that we do something about this two bit, racist, hypocritical assholes in our society..that get all mad if we call a black guy black instead of african american...but can go around saying they want a city to be majority black.....AHHHHHHHH i cant take it.

I demand that we do something about this two bit, racist, hypocritical assholes in our society..that get all mad if we call a black guy black instead of african american...but can go around saying they want a city to be majority black.....AHHHHHHHH i cant take it.
I demand we make them eat butterscotch putting until they have painful abdominal cramps!

I demand that we do something about this two bit, racist, hypocritical assholes in our society..that get all mad if we call a black guy black instead of african american...but can go around saying they want a city to be majority black.....AHHHHHHHH i cant take it.
Damn, that joke went completely over your head.

What about a compromise? How about Butterscotch?

Nobody ever wants to claim butterscotch though. Vanilla looks at it like its chocolate. Chocolate looks at it as half Vanilla. So its probably a no go.

I want to see my city liberally sodden with ice cream.

Heavenly Hash.

Followed by hot fudge hailstones.

"White Flight" is what destroyed your city, Nagin.

Surely he doesn't believe that the pre-flooding demographics of New Orleans was good for the city?

The world would be a better place if we all just had pudding.

I want to see my city liberally sodden with ice cream.

Heavenly Hash.

Followed by hot fudge hailstones.

Mmmmmm...Hot fudge...mmmmmm

Ray Nagin just happens to be in the worst possible spot any politician could even imagine. The people of New Orleans both there and displaced want a piece of his ass for their trophey case and more than a few want the whole head. Not only did he leave almost a thousand buses sitting idle, letting people die instead. He started bulldozing their property without their knowledge or consent.
His last ditch hope is to stir some sort of racial pride. It will not work, but it's his last best effort before retiring to the new home he bought in Dallas a few days after the hurricane.

not to intrude on a discussion of the merits of vanilla pudding, but it seems to me that calling for a city to be rebuilt to fit the needs of it's pre-existing community rather than using a natural/man-made disaster as an excuse to rebuild it as a resort for rich white people doesn't exactly count as racism.

not to intrude on a discussion of the merits of vanila pudding, but it seems to me that calling for a city to be rebuilt to fit the needs of it's pre-existing community rather than using a natural/man-made disaster as an excuse to rebuild it as a resort for rich white people doesn't exactly count as racism.
Hush you, or I shall unleash the pudding secret police on you!

Vanilla Pudding, rice pudding, Chocolate Pudding and fudge? Thats nice :)


Now it's time to get serious :p

Boudin Du Pays Blood Pudding

Ingredients

(1 servings)

2 c Pork blood Salt
2 lb Pork, fresh
1 Pig's lung
1/2 Pig's heart
2 Pig necks Salt
5 Onions; chopped Salt & pepper
Cloves
Summer Savory
Coriander seeds; crashed to taste
2 tb Flour


Instructions

"Blood pudding is one of the great delicacies of Acadian cuisine. It used to be that every Acadian family made its own. Since the annual slaughter came during Advent, the boudin was usually saved for the Christmas holidays." Also part of Cajun cuisine.

Sauce a boudin When slaughtering a pig, collect the fresh blood, immediately add salt and stir to prevent coagulation. Cut the fresh pork, the lung, heart and neck into large pieces. Place the meat into a large pot and add just water to cover the meat. Add the salt and 3 chopped onions. Simmer on medium heat for 3 hours. Remove the meat from the cooking liquid and let it cool. Cut the meat into very small pieces or grind it with a meat grinder. Add the meat to the cooking liquid with the 2 remaining onions, pepper and spices. Bring the liquid to a boil and slowly add the blood by pouring it through a sieve. Stir constantly. Add the flour, mixed with a small amounts of water. (The flour may be browned in the oven before being add to the meat, provided that slightly more flour is used.) Simmer the mixture on low heat for approximately 1 hour, stirring frequently. This sauce may served later by warming in a skillet.

Boudin des Branches (Blood Pudding Sausages) To make blood pudding sausages, prepare blood pudding sauce but do not simmer for the last half hour. Rather, clean the small intestines of the pig, cut them into 20 inch pieces at tie them at one end. Using a funnel or a piece of birch bark as was the Acadian tradition, fill the intestinal lining with the sauce until the intestine is three quarters full. press out the air and tie the other end, leaving some space for expansion. Put the branches (sausages) in boiling water and cook for 45 to 1 hour.

I've got your serious pudding right here...

*shakes herring threateningly*

"This city will be a majority African American city. It's the way God wants it to be. You can't have New Orleans no other way. It wouldn't be New Orleans." -were his exact words.

Well shit. I guess they plan on chasing out the French population. There goes Mardi Gras. College girls aren't going to flock there to flash their tits anymore. They'll have to film "Girls Gone Wild" at Carnivale in Brazil or something.

not to intrude on a discussion of the merits of vanila pudding, but it seems to me that calling for a city to be rebuilt to fit the needs of it's pre-existing community rather than using a natural/man-made disaster as an excuse to rebuild it as a resort for rich white people doesn't exactly count as racism.
yeah I'd been hearing some disturbing rumours about just how New Orleans was supposedly going to be rebuilt to the ultimate exclusion of area residents. I don't really think Nagin is out of line on this - I think he needs to reassure his constituency that they aren't going to be squeezed out of their home by Big Money and a certain Disneyfication of their city. He's done that.

Maybe he stepped on the toes of those like the OP, but as far as I'm concerned, this is just water off a duck's back. De nada. Rien d'importance. Nix. Funny take about God these days, though.

Well shit. I guess they plan on chasing out the French population. There goes Mardi Gras. College girls aren't going to flock there to flash their tits anymore. They'll have to film "Girls Gone Wild" at Carnivale in Brazil or something.

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!

*cries*

... although my personal favourite is pistachio pudding. It's green.

Ray Nagin just happens to be in the worst possible spot any politician could even imagine. The people of New Orleans both there and displaced want a piece of his ass for their trophey case and more than a few want the whole head. Not only did he leave almost a thousand buses sitting idle, letting people die instead. He started bulldozing their property without their knowledge or consent.
His last ditch hope is to stir some sort of racial pride. It will not work, but it's his last best effort before retiring to the new home he bought in Dallas a few days after the hurricane.
You know, that whole school bus story was debunked months ago (http://nolassf.dev.advance.net/newsstory/o_bus05.html). The city didn't have a thousand school buses--they had 324, and of those, 70 were broken down. Try again.

You know, that whole school bus story was debunked months ago (http://nolassf.dev.advance.net/newsstory/o_bus05.html). The city didn't have a thousand school buses--they had 324, and of those, 70 were broken down. Try again.


???


324 - 70 = 254 buses.

254 buses x the average school bus capacity of 53 = 13,462 people.

"White Flight" is what destroyed your city, Nagin.

What do you mean? Explain....

What do you mean? Explain....


I believe it's a strange Zambian pudding metaphor.

All this talk about pudding floods is making me want to plan a trip to Detroit! :)

How many cubic tons of instant pudding would it take to make Lake Michigan over as the world's largest dessert?

How many cubic tons of instant pudding would it take to make Lake Michigan over as the world's largest dessert?

Hmmm...This sounds like a job for...



NS GENERAL POINTLESS MATH CLUB

Oh, if only.

Oh, if only.

We should form it, and bring peace through puding to all the peoples of the Earth.

Hmmm...This sounds like a job for...



NS GENERAL POINTLESS MATH CLUB

Working on it...

Since Instant pudding also uses milk, I am also figuing the amount of powdered milk necessary to compete the conversion.

6,929,697,247 millions of cups of powdered milk and...

10,394,545,871 million packages of Jell-o instant pudding.

:D

Working on it...

Since Instant pudding also uses milk, I am also figuing the amount of powdered milk necessary to compete the conversion.

Where are you getting the figures for the volume of Lake Michigan?

I'm embarrased to admit I've been trying to track down instructions for making instant pudding online. To no great effect.

I'd just thought maybe we could multiply it up. Y'know, say one cup of water for x amount of dry pudding mix. Or does instant pudding need milk? I guess we could add powdered milk to Lake Michigan, but we'd need one Hell of a set of beaters to mix it properly, that's for sure.

Depends on what God thinks...let me call up mayor nagin, since he and God seem to be buddy buddy all of a sudden.

buddy buddy!!??

didnt you read what you posted? god tried to KILL mr nagin. id have to suggest that perhaps mr nagin is in league with SATAN, not god.

Working on it...

Since Instant pudding also uses milk, I am also figuing the amount of powdered milk necessary to compete the conversion.
Ah! the powdered milk factor! I had a feeling...

How many cubic tons of instant pudding would it take to make Lake Michigan over as the world's largest dessert?

Lake Michigan is 1,180 cubic miles of water.

It takes 5280 x 5280 x 5280 cubic foot boxes to fill 1 cubic mile full of boxes 1 cubic foot ea. = 147,197,952,000 squared cubic boxes.

There are 7.48 gallons in cubic foot.

There are 8 cups in a gallon. 16 x 7.48 = 59.84

The average package of pre-mix pudding recipe requires 2 ½ cups of water for a four serving mixture. 59.84 divided by 2.5 = 23.936 packages of mixture for each cubic foot of water…

Thus: 23.936 (pudding packs) x 147,197,952,000 cubic feet of water =

3,523,330,179,072 packs of Pudding Mix Required.



EDIT: Due to moronic stupidity, I had to fix my equations :p

Wow. The things we learn.

What's the weight?volume?mass? (I dunno, me no good measuring... um, things and stuff) of the pudding? Like, how many pounds/tons we talking?

How much does a cup of pudding weigh?

Where are you getting the figures for the volume of Lake Michigan?

I googled it. It's reported to be just under 1180 cubic miles in volume. I figure that's a good enough estimate.

I googled it. It's reported to be just under 1180 cubic miles in volume. I figure that's a good enough estimate.

Give or take a snack.

I googled it. It's reported to be just under 1180 cubic miles in volume. I figure that's a good enough estimate.

Actually, I googled each question, water in Lake Michigan, that cubic feet in a cubic mile, then gallons in a cubic foot etc., I didn't save any of the searches though... :p

Actually, I googled each question, water in LaLe Michagan, that cubic feet in a cubic mile, then gallans in a cubic foot etc., I didn't save any of the searches though... :p

I used a conversion engine that I know of to convert cubic miles directly to U.S. cups.

I went to cups because it's the measure used to make pudding from the box.

1180 cubic mile = 20 789 091 743 451 430 cup [US]

Then I looked up on Google the basic powdered milk recipe. It takes 1/3rd of a cup of powdered milk to convert 1 cup of water into 1 cup of milk. So dividing the total number of cups in Lake Michigan by 3 is how I got the first figure.

Each package of Jell-o instant pudding uses 2 cups of milk. So I divided the same number by 2 to get the second figure.

:D

Lets see... Ray Nagin wants to dictate the demographiocs of a re-built New Orleans. He'd like to dictate a demographic to insure he is re-elected. Shocking! A politician will stoop to any depth? Use any ploy to retain power? I'm astonished! Did anyone really expect anything less?

Lets see... Ray Nagin wants to dictate the demographiocs of a re-built New Orleans. He'd like to dictate a demographic to insure he is re-elected. Shocking! A politician will stoop to any depth? Use any ploy to retain power? I'm astonished! Did anyone really expect anything less?

I expected pudding...

...
I went to cups because it's the measure used to make pudding from the box.

1180 cubic mile = 20 789 091 743 451 430 cup [US]

...


Damn, with the numbers I came up with, I thought it was only going to be 17,000,000,000,000,000 something or another?

Where the hell did I go wrong! Damn, damn damn! :(


ah hell, :D

Damn, with the numbers I came up with, I thought it was only going to be 17,000,000,000,000,000 something or another?

Where the hell did I go wrong! Damn, damn damn! :(


ah hell, :D
You're only off by 3.5 Quadrillion.

You're only off by 3.5 Quadrillion.

I got the cubic feet conversion right... how many gallons in a cubic foot?

I think the problem would be depositing the pudding mix and powdered milk. I mean, it'd cover... well, I don't know how much land it'd cover, but I'm thinking it'd be a staggering pile. Bulldozers? Giant fans? Men with shovels? This'd be a Herculean task.

I expected pudding...
Can I have some?

I got the cubic feet conversion right... how many gallons in a cubic foot?
1 cubic foot = 7.480 519 481 gallon [US, liquid

I think the problem would be depositing the pudding mix and powdered milk. I mean, it'd cover... well, I don't know how much land it'd cover, but I'm thinking it'd be a staggering pile. Bulldozers? Giant fans? Men with shovels? This'd be a Herculean task.

So?

If Ancient Egyptians built the Pyramids, and Medieval Chinese erected the Great Wall, surely modern man can turn Lake Michigan into Pudding.

Recently the mayor of New Orleans, who is black, stated such comments as, New Orleans will be "chocolate" again, thats the way God wills it to be.

"It's time for us to come together. It's time for us to rebuild New Orleans — the one that should be a chocolate New Orleans," the mayor said. "This city will be a majority African American city. It's the way God wants it to be. You can't have New Orleans no other way. It wouldn't be New Orleans." -were his exact words

Now is this a double standard or what!?

Lets change some words around. "It's time for us to come together. It's time for us to rebuild Detroit - the one that should be a vanilla Detroit," the mayor said. "This city will be a majority White American city. It's the way God wants it to be. You can't have Detroit no other way. It wouldnt be Detroit."

Needless to say, if that were said, the speaker would be branded with by white hot brands that say "bigot", "racist", "hater"....etc then, without a doubt, burned at the stake.

This hypocritic double standard is getting WAY too old. There seems to be only 2 ways to solve this double standard.

1. blacks must be held accountable of this sort of racist trash, just like whites are.
2. neither race be held accountable by their remarks...thereby allowing both races to issue racial statements such as the above.

Its either both or neither. I am getting sick and tired of this shit.

Source: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060117/ap_on_re_us/katrina_nagin;_ylt=Ale_B7uCdGkgXJlsYxNACCys0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA3b2NibDltBHNlYwM3MTY-

The story:
NEW ORLEANS - Mayor Ray Nagin suggested Monday that Hurricanes Katrina and Rita and other storms were a sign that "God is mad at America" and at black communities, too, for tearing themselves apart with violence and political infighting.

ADVERTISEMENT

"Surely God is mad at America. He sent us hurricane after hurricane after hurricane, and it's destroyed and put stress on this country," Nagin, who is black, said as he and other city leaders marked Martin Luther King Day.

"Surely he doesn't approve of us being in Iraq under false pretenses. But surely he is upset at black America also. We're not taking care of ourselves."

Nagin also promised that New Orleans will be a "chocolate" city again. Many of the city's black neighborhoods were heavily damaged by Katrina.

"It's time for us to come together. It's time for us to rebuild New Orleans — the one that should be a chocolate New Orleans," the mayor said. "This city will be a majority African American city. It's the way God wants it to be. You can't have New Orleans no other way. It wouldn't be New Orleans."
Nagin described an imaginary conversation with King, the late civil rights leader.

"I said, `What is it going to take for us to move on and live your dream and make it a reality?' He said, `I don't think that we need to pay attention any more as much about other folks and racists on the other side.' He said, `The thing we need to focus on as a community — black folks I'm talking about — is ourselves.'"

Nagin said he also asked: "Why is black-on-black crime such an issue? Why do our young men hate each other so much that they look their brother in the face and they will take a gun and kill him in cold blood?"

The reply, Nagin said, was: "We as a people need to fix ourselves first."
Nagin also said King would have been dismayed with black leaders who are "most of the time tearing each other down publicly for the delight of many."

A day earlier, gunfire erupted at a parade to commemorate King's birthday. Three people were wounded in the daylight shooting amid a throng of mostly black spectators, but police said there were no immediate suspects or witnesses.

1. Nice job on taking a single small part of what Nagin said and blowing it out of proportion.

2. Didn't you like what he said about what the black community must do?

3. I'm appalled at Nagin's remarks re a "chocolate New Orleans" (assuming he is accurately quoted.) I apply no double standard. Those remarks were inappropriate and disgusting.

I would note, however, that in context, they were not as bad as you making them out to be. He said that New Orleans wouldn't be the same New Orleans if it wasn't a black city. That is a truism. Nonetheless, I do not defend his remarks and object on the same grounds you do.

1 cubic foot = 7.480 519 481 gallon [US, liquid

Ah, 8 cups in a gallon, not 16...


*takes knife, seppuku, I commit hari-kari for my shame*

So?

If Ancient Egyptians built the Pyramids, and Medieval Chinese erected the Great Wall, surely modern man can turn Lake Michigan into Pudding.

Seems to me that to get a good enough mix going, you ought to drop the ingredients in by aircraft and work your way up-current, mixing as you go with the help of specially equipped mixing-ships.

not to intrude on a discussion of the merits of vanilla pudding, but it seems to me that calling for a city to be rebuilt to fit the needs of it's pre-existing community rather than using a natural/man-made disaster as an excuse to rebuild it as a resort for rich white people doesn't exactly count as racism.

excellent point. But Nagin still took his remarks too far and should be justly condemned for it.

Seems to me that to get a good enough mix going, you ought to drop the ingredients in by aircraft and work your way up-current, mixing as you go with the help of specially equipped mixing-ships.
It would be like going to the moon, but with Pudding!

The world would be a better place if we all just had pudding.
I think future wars should be pudding fights.

I demand that we do something about this two bit, racist, hypocritical assholes in our society..that get all mad if we call a black guy black instead of african american...but can go around saying they want a city to be majority black.....AHHHHHHHH i cant take it.

You seem to be very angry about a fictional hypocrisy. Perhaps you should lay down and take some deep breaths.

I hate the ignorance about what MLK stood for, what the man really believed was that race did NOT define who you are. “I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal." I have a dream that one day on the red hills of Georgia the sons of former slaves and the sons of former slaveowners will be able to sit down together at a table of brotherhood.”

*Sigh*…people just don’t get it.

I hate the ignorance about what MLK stood for, what the man really believed was that race did NOT define who you are.

*Sigh*…people just don’t get it.

I hate the attempt to define MLK's eloquent and nuanced views by the use of two sentences.

You are both right and wrong. MLK ultimately wanted a colorblind society. He was not ignorant, however, of the importance of race in US society and the role race awareness must play in getting us to the ultimate goal of equality.

See, for example, Martin Luther King - Letter from Birmingham Jail (http://www.nobelprizes.com/nobel/peace/MLK-jail.html)

Haha silly little crackas! ;)

You seem to be very angry about a fictional hypocrisy. Perhaps you should lay down and take some deep breaths.

Are you telling me that if someone said "I want _____(city) to be a vanilla city again, because thats the way God wants it", he wouldnt be deemed a racist, bigot,..etc?

I think I'd like to see more rice pudding around. Rice pudding doesn't cause problems and is good at math. [/racist pudding stereotype]

Are you telling me that if someone said "I want _____(city) to be a vanilla city again, because thats the way God wants it", he wouldnt be deemed a racist, bigot,..etc?

You are the one that seems to be incensed by it. Everybody else either went :rolleyes: or said "yea ok whatever"

As to your question. Yes they would when you consider our slavery and civil rights issues past. Especially, since MLK was only 50 years ago.

With all this pudding talk; what about two women wrestling in it? :D

I don't care the flavor as longer as there aren't two gay cowboys eating it! ;)

With all this pudding talk; what about two women wrestling in it? :D

I don't care the flavor as longer as there aren't two gay cowboys eating it! ;)
Not a fan of independent film?

If the "rev" Jackson were on this forum he would ask for a Rainbow Pudding. Maybe Hillary should go down there and tell them all about plantation life, like she just told the crowd at a MLK meeting yesterday.. :)

With all this pudding talk; what about two women wrestling in it? :D

I don't care the flavor as longer as there aren't two gay cowboys eating it! ;)
That would be banana pudding, right?

I lived in New Orleans for a year '02 - '03. Ray Nagin is a fucking idiot and I can't believe the people there voted him into office. I blame him for most of what went wrong during Katrina. He could've used his power as mayor to make sure those people had a way to leave the city. He should've used every available school and city bus to get those people out the day before it struck.

I don't mind him wanting to make 9th Ward black again, but he should keep the bad elements out. There were a lot of bad elements in that section of the city. The city had already started cleaning up areas and arresting the major drug dealers. Nature just finished the job. Now cities like Houston and Atlanta are dealing with a much higher crime and it's obvious who is to blame.

They should definitely fix up those areas because most of it is historic, but I wouldn't let anybody back in if all they are going to do is fuck it up again. I mean let us keep this in perspective. Nobody went to New Orleans to visit or check out the 9th before. They should make it a safe area and rebuild the historical aspects so that people might want to visit the area.

Ray Nagin is right when he said that black people are very much a part of New Orleans...they are and I wouldn't want 9th Ward to be razed just to put in high rent condos and expensive housing. It would kill a lot of the soul of New Orleans if that happened.

No whipped cream or strawberry sauce?

Amazing what happens when people hijack a thread (maybe that's why jolt is so screwy? too many damn posts about pudding :D )


You are the one that seems to be incensed by it. Everybody else either went or said "yea ok whatever"


I think that's the thing, though. If it had been a white guy who said "God wants this city full of Whitey!", this thread would be twice as long about how an ignorant redneck racists hick he'd be. But a black guy says it? *shrug* "Whatever, I liek teh puddin!" Doesn't that seem a bit off?

Amazing what happens when people hijack a thread (maybe that's why jolt is so screwy? too many damn posts about pudding :D )



I think that's the thing, though. If it had been a white guy who said "God wants this city full of Whitey!", this thread would be twice as long about how an ignorant redneck racists hick he'd be. But a black guy says it? *shrug* "Whatever, I liek teh puddin!" Doesn't that seem a bit off?

Finally, someone sees the light!!! I love you man!!!

This is exactly what I'm talking about...doesnt anyone else understand this?

Finally, someone sees the light!!! I love you man!!!

This is exactly what I'm talking about...doesnt anyone else understand this?

Of course they do. Why do you think they tried hijacking the thread?

I think that's the thing, though. If it had been a white guy who said "God wants this city full of Whitey!", this thread would be twice as long about how an ignorant redneck racists hick he'd be. But a black guy says it? *shrug* "Whatever, I liek teh puddin!" Doesn't that seem a bit off?

If you were talking about New Orleans then yes you would be a racist. Again, the racist past of the country is still around. It's still in peoples memories especially when you consider the acts of say Mississippi was only 50 years ago.

Many of the inhabitants have been shipped all over the country. You have developers salivating at the possibilities of the rebuild. Guess what classification of people that would favor? Whites.

The culture of the area is black. The personality reflects it. I hope New Orleans doesn't loose it's personality with the rebuilding. It would be a damn shame.

Finally, he is a politician and guess who he is playing up to?

:confused: New Orleans was founded by the french, who were most certainly not black. Perhaps they should change the name from New Orleans to New Zimbabue if they want to reflect an african heritage...

:confused: New Orleans was founded by the french, who were most certainly not black. Perhaps they should change the name from New Orleans to New Zimbabue if they want to reflect an african heritage...

Never suggested it wasn't. However, the black population has always been there.

:confused: New Orleans was founded by the french, who were most certainly not black. Perhaps they should change the name from New Orleans to New Zimbabue if they want to reflect an african heritage...

As an afterthought. You really can't simply label it African. There is the Carribean aspects. There are many aspects overall.

:confused: New Orleans was founded by the french, who were most certainly not black. Perhaps they should change the name from New Orleans to New Zimbabue if they want to reflect an african heritage...
And New York was settled by Dutch. Perhaps we should call it New Amsterdam?

If you were talking about New Orleans then yes you would be a racist. Again, the racist past of the country is still around. It's still in peoples memories especially when you consider the acts of say Mississippi was only 50 years ago.

Many of the inhabitants have been shipped all over the country. You have developers salivating at the possibilities of the rebuild. Guess what classification of people that would favor? Whites.

The culture of the area is black. The personality reflects it. I hope New Orleans doesn't loose it's personality with the rebuilding. It would be a damn shame.

Finally, he is a politician and guess who he is playing up to?

What culture?! Most of the blacks in that city where free loaders, moochin off welfare...they were violent animals that shot at the police! That place is like a chunk of Africa that floated over and attached itself onto North America.

OK. So lets take Detroit, it used to be White. Now its black...its a terrible city now. If someone said...lets make it a white city again, because thats what God wants...what do you think people would say to that?

Amazing what happens when people hijack a thread (maybe that's why jolt is so screwy? too many damn posts about pudding :D )



I think that's the thing, though. If it had been a white guy who said "God wants this city full of Whitey!", this thread would be twice as long about how an ignorant redneck racists hick he'd be. But a black guy says it? *shrug* "Whatever, I liek teh puddin!" Doesn't that seem a bit off?

We have Jell-o too. *nod*

The culture of the area is black. The personality reflects it. I hope New Orleans doesn't loose it's personality with the rebuilding. It would be a damn shame.

So if a predominately White city had been destroyed by a major natural disaster, and the city's major went on air saying "We're going to keep this city a majority Caucasian American city. It's the way God wants it to be," you wouldn't have a problem with that?

Finally, he is a politician and guess who he is playing up to?
So?

"It's time for us to come together. It's time for us to rebuild New Orleans — the one that should be a chocolate New Orleans," the mayor said. "This city will be a majority African American city. It's the way God wants it to be. You can't have New Orleans no other way. It wouldn't be New Orleans." -were his exact words

Wow, a Dimocrat practacing segregation. Who could imagine that.:rolleyes:

What culture?! Most of the blacks in that city where free loaders, moochin off welfare...they were violent animals that shot at the police! That place is like a chunk of Africa that floated over and attached itself onto North America.

OK. So lets take Detroit, it used to be White. Now its black...its a terrible city now. If someone said...lets make it a white city again, because thats what God wants...what do you think people would say to that?

Let's be fair about this: Detroit was always a rotten city. :p

Let's be fair about this: Detroit was always a rotten city. :p

True...but, not really the point I was trying to make, lol.

So if a predominately White city had been destroyed by a major natural disaster, and the city's major went on air saying "We're going to keep this city a majority Caucasian American city. It's the way God wants it to be," you wouldn't have a problem with that?

Nope. I take it as he wants to keep the people that lived there. Unless of course he set up programs to keep other "races" from taking over.

Again I shrug it off to politics rather then out right racism.

Think about it. Even the mayor knows he needs "whitey" as well.


So?

Ok what is the difference between this and Bush talking about God all the time? W

What culture?! Most of the blacks in that city where free loaders, moochin off welfare...they were violent animals that shot at the police! That place is like a chunk of Africa that floated over and attached itself onto North America.


You have never been there have you? Try one word: Jazz

Nope. I take it as he wants to keep the people that lived there. Unless of course he set up programs to keep other "races" from taking over.

Again I shrug it off to politics rather then out right racism.

Think about it. Even the mayor knows he needs "whitey" as well.



Ok what is the difference between this and Bush talking about God all the time? W

The point we are both trying to make IS: If someone (white) said the exact same thing nagin said about their city, except for it to be white, would it be deemed as totally racist, where the guy would either be made to look like he was a KKK knight, or fired, or both?

Because obviously it seems like nagin is allowed to say stuff like this..and everything is A-Ok.

The culture of the area is black. The personality reflects it. I hope New Orleans doesn't loose it's personality with the rebuilding. It would be a damn shame.

The "culture" of New Orleans that most of us think of is basically the culture of the French Quarter, not of the 9th Ward.

EDIT: I'd also like to add that there is no such thing as "black" or "white" culture. Skin color =/= culture. If you want jazz, make a program to encourage jazz musicians of any color or creed to move to the city.

The "culture" of New Orleans that most of us think of is basically the culture of the French Quarter, not of the 9th Ward.

exactly...we dont go to visit New Orleans to see the majority of the city on welfare mooching off the government and our paychecks.

Wow, a Dimocrat practacing segregation. Who could imagine that.:rolleyes:

Now, now don't hurt yourself.....

You have never been there have you? Try one word: Jazz

Tried it, didnt like it. Now you try one word: Welfare.

And New York was settled by Dutch. Perhaps we should call it New Amsterdam?
It used to be called New Amsterdam...


Unless They Might Be Giants have lied to me.

Either way, both places were taken over by the british from other people... New Orleans kept its name, New Amsterdam didn't.

Nope. I take it as he wants to keep the people that lived there. Unless of course he set up programs to keep other "races" from taking over.
And while this might be true, I wouldn't put it past the denizens of NS to come out with pitchforks and torchs against this "racists bastard" :rolleyes:

Again I shrug it off to politics rather then out right racism.
Like the two don't mix? Again the white mayor of the white city might not have racists intentions behind "keeping his city white" but you'd never hear the end of it from the ACLU and its ilk.

Ok what is the difference between this and Bush talking about God all the time? W
Bush isn't telling the American public "I plan on keeping this country WASP, because God says so"

Tried it, didnt like it. Now you try one word: Welfare.

Already have. Mom used it.

GUESS WHAT?!?!?!?!?!

I have yet to use it and neither does my sister.


Hmmm what kind of music do you go after?

"White Flight" is what destroyed your city, Nagin.

Surely he doesn't believe that the pre-flooding demographics of New Orleans was good for the city?

I thought it was "KATRINA".....the Great White Avenger...

It used to be called New Amsterdam...


Unless the Planet Smashers have lied to me.

Either way, both places were taken over by the british from other people... New Orleans kept its name, New Amsterdam didn't.

He was making a joke. ;)

The Brits didn't take over New Orleans. We bought it and the territory from the French.

The "culture" of New Orleans that most of us think of is basically the culture of the French Quarter, not of the 9th Ward.

Well there is if you leave the city. I should take the TV viewpoints into condiseration here. After all how many people think Marti Gras happens all the time? :p


EDIT: I'd also like to add that there is no such thing as "black" or "white" culture. Skin color =/= culture. If you want jazz, make a program to encourage jazz musicians of any color or creed to move to the city.

Actually I know that. I was staying in the confines of our two friends here. The "correct" words would probably be Cajun and Creole. ;)

As to the music programs, there is an effort to keep it alive and they do encourage anybody to go to the school, etc. to learn.

Notice I didn't mention Zydago or the Blues history..... ;)

He was making a joke. ;)

The Brits didn't take over New Orleans. We bought it and the territory from the French.
Interesting.

Either way, the british acquired it somehow...

Like the two don't mix? Again the white mayor of the white city might not have racists intentions behind "keeping his city white" but you'd never hear the end of it from the ACLU and its ilk.


Ahh yes the ACLU. You forgot to mention Clinton. :rolleyes:

So here is a Constitution lesson. How would the ACLU get involved in the first place.


Bush isn't telling the American public "I plan on keeping this country WASP, because God says so"

And you missed the point.

Interesting.

Either way, the british acquired it somehow...

New York? Sure.

New Orleans? Nope. Why else did they try to invade it in 1812?

I thought it was "KATRINA".....the Great White Avenger...

What the hell is..."White Flight"??

Ahh yes the ACLU. You forgot to mention Clinton. :rolleyes:

So here is a Constitution lesson. How would the ACLU get involved in the first place.



And you missed the point.

Dude...your avoiding the question. He is not missing the point. Your just jumping hurdles over his posts.

What the hell is..."White Flight"??

It was a term to describe the migration of whites from the city. I think it was Detroit where the phrase started.

New York? Sure.

New Orleans? Nope. Why else did they try to invade it in 1812?
? But Black Forrest just said... :confused:

This is why I didn't take history past grade 11. Physics is so much easier.

So?

If Ancient Egyptians built the Pyramids, and Medieval Chinese erected the Great Wall, surely modern man can turn Lake Michigan into Pudding.

Actually, it's a very menial task compared to the other two. It's really just a matter of damming up the lake and draining the water. I'm sure we can get a few private companies who sell bottled water to drain it, and the fish companies afterward.

Then just load up some C3 Galaxy cargo planes, have them fly low, and dump out Powdered milk bombs, or something. Although, if you used powdered milk, you would only have to drain enough to stop the displacement from overflowing the lake and going into the other Great Lakes.

Dude...your avoiding the question. He is not missing the point. Your just jumping hurdles over his posts.

Not at all. When I hear ACLU "is the devil" comments; 9 times out of 10 no point would have any meaning to the person.

Bringing up the ACLU serves no purpose here.

But to your point. The comparisons are rather simplistic for one simple reason. Have you seen any racist actions by the Mayor?

Fact remains. Racism and bigotry was only a couple generations ago(A point you have overlooked more then one). Think about it. The only whites that want to keep something white tend to be racists.

Is the mayor a biggot? I don't know. Got any other evidence?

Not at all. When I hear ACLU "is the devil" comments; 9 times out of 10 no point would have any meaning to the person.

Bringing up the ACLU serves no purpose here.

But to your point. The comparisons are rather simplistic for one simple reason. Have you seen any racist actions by the Mayor?

Fact remains. Racism and bigotry was only a couple generations ago(A point you have overlooked more then one). Think about it. The only whites that want to keep something white tend to be racists.

Is the mayor a biggot? I don't know. Got any other evidence?

Are you blind, or just stupid? I cant beleive this....

Are you blind, or just stupid? I cant beleive this....

Could be.

What's your excuse?

Well there is if you leave the city. I should take the TV viewpoints into condiseration here. After all how many people think Marti Gras happens all the time? :p

I don't think that at all; I am saying that the perception people have of New Orleans being a unique and interesting city that is worth the trouble to rebuild comes from events like Mardi Gras that showcase a particular culture that has nothing to do with how many black people you have in the city.

Actually I know that. I was staying in the confines of our two friends here. The "correct" words would probably be Cajun and Creole. ;)

This entire topic is based upon the idea that black culture is somehow necessary to the identity of New Orleans, however -- thus the 'chocolate' comment. My point is that the mayor was being a racist dick and has absolutely no leg to stand on because there is no black culture. New Orleans may have a culture, but it doesn't stem from skin tones.

As to the music programs, there is an effort to keep it alive and they do encourage anybody to go to the school, etc. to learn.

Notice I didn't mention Zydago or the Blues history..... ;)

So then why encourage a majority of blacks in the city? If you want lots of jazz musicians then you need only encourage jazz musicians in general, regardless of whether they are black or white. You seem to be completely ignoring what I was trying to say:

a) The large black neighbourhoods of New Orleans are not what made the city culturally interesting to the rest of the US to begin with.
b) There is no such thing as culture based on skin color; the mayor should focus on cultural qualities that he wants to bring back to the city, not racial demographics.

I don't think that at all; I am saying that the perception people have of New Orleans being a unique and interesting city that is worth the trouble to rebuild comes from events like Mardi Gras that showcase a particular culture that has nothing to do with how many black people you have in the city.


Ok but who were the ones that started all this?


This entire topic is based upon the idea that black culture is somehow necessary to the identity of New Orleans, however -- thus the 'chocolate' comment. My point is that the mayor was being a racist dick and has absolutely no leg to stand on because there is no black culture. New Orleans may have a culture, but it doesn't stem from skin tones.


:) Interesting. I am curious as to how you will define the culture of New Orleans?


So then why encourage a majority of blacks in the city? If you want lots of jazz musicians then you need only encourage jazz musicians in general, regardless of whether they are black or white. You seem to be completely ignoring what I was trying to say:


Oh I am not ignoring what you are saying. You are presenting differnt arguments then what our two friends have made.


a) The large black neighbourhoods of New Orleans are not what made the city culturally interesting to the rest of the US to begin with.


:) Ahh you have been there. Some of them I would never walk down. ;)


b) There is no such thing as culture based on skin color; the mayor should focus on cultural qualities that he wants to bring back to the city, not racial demographics.

On the simple matter of skin. You are correct. However, there are aspects of culture that come from cultures that are predominately black(Ie the Islands).

Ahhh Kansas. So how is Fred doing these days?

Last I heard he was out protesting at the graves of brave soldiers. Too bad he couldn't concentrate his efforts on stupid, uninformed little twits.

New Orleans became predominately black in 1974, it's culture is French Canadian. Maybe armed with this fact you can avoid his wrath should he choose to direct his hate to a justifiable target.

Ahh yes the ACLU. You forgot to mention Clinton. :rolleyes:

So here is a Constitution lesson. How would the ACLU get involved in the first place.

Well obviously, the white mayor declaring he would make the city white again must mean he would some how Put the Black Man Down and deny his civil rights, right?[/sarcasm]

Now stop dodging the point - the mayor made what would have been considered a racist remark had he been white, and he gets a free pass because he's black?

Fact remains. Racism and bigotry was only a couple generations ago(A point you have overlooked more then one). Think about it. The only whites that want to keep something white tend to be racists.
Wow, how racists of you. Any white man who want to keep something white is probably racists, while any black man who's trying to keep something black is just fighting the noble fight?

Last I heard he was out protesting at the graves of brave soldiers. Too bad he couldn't concentrate his efforts on stupid, uninformed little twits.

New Orleans became predominately black in 1974, it's culture is French Canadian. Maybe armed with this fact you can avoid his wrath should he choose to direct his hate to a justifiable target.

It's a little more then simply French Canadian. But you knew that right?

? But Black Forrest just said... :confused:

This is why I didn't take history past grade 11. Physics is so much easier.


Hehe,

for me its the complete opposite history, and government is so much more simpler for me than physics and maths

But commenting on the new "chocolate city"

it is quite interesting, but I think it is wrong for him to say this. New Orleans was known for its diversity in my opinion not just for being a majority African-American city. New Orleans is such a beautiful, diverse place and I pray for the day when it can be as beautiful as I remember it last year.

It's a little more then simply French Canadian. But you knew that right?

And STILL..they are avoiding this!!!

But commenting on the new "chocolate city"

it is quite interesting, but I think it is wrong for him to say this. New Orleans was known for its diversity in my opinion not just for being a majority African-American city. New Orleans is such a beautiful, diverse place and I pray for the day when it can be as beautiful as I remember it last year.

And with that I bid fare well for the night.

Daekerius has the correct answer on this whole thing.

1) My aspects of the debate was having fun debating the opposite side.
Never mind the fact it's fun to poke at "if this person was white" types. TAI and Cody. No hard feelings. If I pissed you off I apologise. ;)

And even you Liver. The phelps comment was cheap.

2) My arguement (as I was attempting in the delivery) was to argue the fact that the black community has an influence on the culture.
3) Nagin probably is a racist.
4) I too hope the culture that I have always liked can remain and not be "modernized" away.

Good night gents!

New Orleans French origins are Acadian, not French-Canadian. Acadia is located in what is now New Brunswick, but the Acadians who later became 'Cajuns' wouldn't have considered themselves 'French-Canadian'. Not by a long shot.

This thread was better when it was about pudding.

Mmm, delicious pudding...

Mmm, delicious pudding...

Indeed it was. LG figured out that it woud take about 20 Quadrillion boxes of Instant pudding to puddingize Lake Michigan.

The reason that it is perceived as racist for white people to say things such as "we want to keep our city white." is due to the different motivations of blacks and whites in keeping their cities etc. monocultural. The motivation for many blacks is born out of a wish to ensure that their culture (the culture of African American people in a particular place with a distinct culture generally associated with that particular group of people within the community - for the pedants and PC idiots) is protected. It also stems from a desire to remove white privelige. The prime motivation of many white people in situations such as these is "Oh no, the evil, heathen black men will turn our good, God-fearing Christian women into immoral, wanton whores to their lustful desires, and black people will turn our children into gangsters with baggy pants and force them into drug addiction.". That is the difference between a black person saying it, and a white person saying it.

EDIT: I hate pudding.

EDIT: I hate pudding.

Than you shall be cast into the puddingy pits of pudding hell, with pudan, and he shall puddingize you for all pudterity.

The reason that it is perceived as racist for white people to say things such as "we want to keep our city white." is due to the different motivations of blacks and whites in keeping their cities etc. monocultural. The motivation for many blacks is born out of a wish to ensure that their culture (the culture of African American people in a particular place with a distinct culture generally associated with that particular group of people within the community - for the pedants and PC idiots) is protected. It also stems from a desire to remove white privelige. The prime motivation of many white people in situations such as these is "Oh no, the evil, heathen black men will turn our good, God-fearing Christian women into immoral, wanton whores to their lustful desires, and black people will turn our children into gangsters with baggy pants and force them into drug addiction.". That is the difference between a black person saying it, and a white person saying it.

EDIT: I hate pudding.

How come it can't be that a white person want to preserve HIS heritage and culture as well?

What culture?! Most of the blacks in that city where free loaders, moochin off welfare...they were violent animals that shot at the police! That place is like a chunk of Africa that floated over and attached itself onto North America.

OK. So lets take Detroit, it used to be White. Now its black...its a terrible city now. If someone said...lets make it a white city again, because thats what God wants...what do you think people would say to that?

Nice stereotypes from the guy that supposedly is all concerned about the racism of Nagin's comments.

I guess the truth will out.

How come it can't be that a white person want to preserve HIS heritage and culture as well?

What exactly IS white culture and heritage?

My heritage is British and Irish, not "white."

What exactly IS white culture and heritage?

My heritage is British and Irish, not "white."


What exactly IS black culture and heritage? My heritage is Civil War American (no I'm not a Klansman or a redneck), and German. White Culture and Heritage stems from the Anglo-Saxon line.

Nice stereotypes from the guy that supposedly is all concerned about the racism of Nagin's comments.

I guess the truth will out.

:)

I was trying to be nice and bring him to that conclusion himself. ;)

How come it can't be that a white person want to preserve HIS heritage and culture as well?

How is the white culture under threat? Explain that to me, when we teach European history in schools? We teach books by white Europeans and call them literature, call a white European the greatest poet of all time (I happen to agree, but thats a side issue), teach white versions of history, both ancient and modern, privelige white ways of being over those of other cultures, and I could go on and on.

I am not defending Nagin's comments, merely suggesting an explanation for the dismissal of claims of racism against him.

Neo K - I'll convert! I'll convert! But NOT THE PUDAN!!!

How come it can't be that a white person want to preserve HIS heritage and culture as well?

As it was stated there is no black culture; the same is for white culture.

What is white culture? I am Scots and Polish from the two families. I American by birth. So where is the white?

As it was stated there is no black culture; the same is for white culture.

What is white culture? I am Scots and Polish from the two families. I American by birth. So where is the white?

Anglo Saxon.

What exactly IS black culture and heritage? My heritage is Civil War American (no I'm not a Klansman or a redneck), and German. White Culture and Heritage stems from the Anglo-Saxon line.

Civil War American? Are you 150 years old?

Um. Not all whites are Anglo-Saxon, not even a majority. You yourself are part German. Duh.

Because of slavery and segregation, African-Americans have developed culture that is unique. Why is it improper to seek to preserve the good from that heritage.

No one stops you from celebrating your "Civil War" or German heritage.

Anglo Saxon.

So Germans aren't white.

Neither are Poles, Czechs, the French, Norwegians, Swedes, etc. .....

As it was stated there is no black culture; the same is for white culture.

What is white culture? I am Scots and Polish from the two families. I American by birth. So where is the white?

If you're Irish, you might be able to change your claim...

Scientists believe they may have found Ireland's most productive man, with more than three million males worldwide among his offspring.
http://www.theherald.co.uk/news/54501.html

So far as we know now, only Genghis Khan has more descendants.

Civil War American? Are you 150 years old?

Nah, I had ancestor that fought in the Civil War on my mom side. That as far back as we've gotten. My dad side is the one that is German.


Because of slavery and segregation, African-Americans have developed culture that is unique. Why is it improper to seek to preserve the good from that heritage.

We've developed culture that is unique too. You should visit the South sometimes, completely diffrent from rest of the country, should we be denied the right to preserve that heritage?


No one stops you from celebrating your "Civil War" or German heritage.

Ehh that's a yes and no. While techinally you are right, there are groups like liberals (I'm generalizing I know), blacks (generalizing again) and other groups that don't want me to celebrate my heritage because they deem it racist, etc.

No I don't have a confederate flag or anything like that. I actually have a Secret Police Nazi uniform and I'm working on getting a Southern Civil War uniform. I also collect WW II artifcats because my Grandpa was a fighter in the African and European theather.

What exactly IS black culture and heritage? My heritage is Civil War American (no I'm not a Klansman or a redneck), and German.

Civil war american? What?

Any American whose family has been here for generatations has that heritage. Heck I am A revolutionary war american. Nope I am also a Lord Dunmore's War American.

White Culture and Heritage stems from the Anglo-Saxon line.

Hmm then what does that make a black man born in England?

If you're Irish, you might be able to change your claim...

Scientists believe they may have found Ireland's most productive man, with more than three million males worldwide among his offspring.
http://www.theherald.co.uk/news/54501.html

So far as we know now, only Genghis Khan has more descendants.

Interesting. The Irish might have snuck in but the family is McDonald. Greatx7 Granddad was supposedly chased out after Culladen.

Interesting. I fill forward the link to a coworker that has one of the surnames.

Thanks!

Nah, I had ancestor that fought in the Civil War on my mom side. That as far back as we've gotten. My dad side is the one that is German. .

I guess I'm a "Civil War American" too. I'm also a Revolutionary War American.

We've developed culture that is unique too. You should visit the South sometimes, completely diffrent from rest of the country, should we be denied the right to preserve that heritage?.

1. I've spent a lot of time in the South. My in-laws are from South Carolina.

2. Are you implying there is a white Southern culture that is separate and distinct?

Ehh that's a yes and no. While techinally you are right, there are groups like liberals (I'm generalizing I know), blacks (generalizing again) and other groups that don't want me to celebrate my heritage because they deem it racist, etc.

No I don't have a confederate flag or anything like that. I actually have a Secret Police Nazi uniform and I'm working on getting a Southern Civil War uniform. I also collect WW II artifcats because my Grandpa was a fighter in the African and European theather.

Let's see you collect Nazi uniforms and celebrate the Southern side of the Civil War. I can't imagine why anyone would accuse your "heritage" of being racist.

I guess I'm a "Civil War American" too. I'm also a Revolutionary War American.

Cool.



1. I've spent a lot of time in the South. My in-laws are from South Carolina.


I love their fireworks, better than NC fireworks.


2. Are you implying there is a white Southern culture that is separate and distinct?


Yep.


Let's see you collect Nazi uniforms and celebrate the Southern side of the Civil War. I can't imagine why anyone would accuse your "heritage" of being racist.

What? I have my grandpa uniform in storage, and I actually had some ancestor who fought for the Germans in WW II too. So I got both side. And I'm working on the Southern Civil War uniform for the same reason. It's to remind me where I came from. I don't think that is racist. Now joining the Ku Klux Klan, waving the Confederate flag everywhere, and calling blacks reacist terms, then yea that's racist. But simply collecting uniforms of war that your ancestor took part in, that's not racist.

News Flash!!!

Just spoke with Mayor Nagin!! God has now told him that he likes tapioca pudding the best. He especially likes those little lumps!!!

We've developed culture that is unique too. You should visit the South sometimes, completely diffrent from rest of the country, should we be denied the right to preserve that heritage?

The difference between yourselves and African Americans is that you automatically receive the right to celebrate your heritage. I have seen many movies and read many books that have received critical acclaim for their examination of the culture of the South in America. Books and films that are studied in English classes the world over, as examples of artistry and modern literature.

Although it is popular tripe, a perfect example of this celebration of your heritage was watching E!'s countdown of the 50 steamiest southern stars. I think there were about 3 African Americans on the countdown. Meaning that the culture of the South is being portrayed as majority white.



Ehh that's a yes and no. While techinally you are right, there are groups like liberals (I'm generalizing I know), blacks (generalizing again) and other groups that don't want me to celebrate my heritage because they deem it racist, etc.

I have yet to see a liberal demanding that St. Patrick's Day not be celebrated outside of Ireland. Or Oktoberfest outside of Germany. So what is your point, exactly?

We've developed culture that is unique too. You should visit the South sometimes, completely diffrent from rest of the country, should we be denied the right to preserve that heritage?


Been there actually. All of it. So what are you saying here. The blacks are part of your culture?

The difference between yourselves and African Americans is that you automatically receive the right to celebrate your heritage. I have seen many movies and read many books that have received critical acclaim for their examination of the culture of the South in America. Books and films that are studied in English classes the world over, as examples of artistry and modern literature.

Although it is popular tripe, a perfect example of this celebration of your heritage was watching E!'s countdown of the 50 steamiest southern stars. I think there were about 3 African Americans on the countdown. Meaning that the culture of the South is being portrayed as majority white.

And yet, the blacks have The Black Panthers, they have the million man march, they have Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson. They have Black History Month, they have MLK day. They're not being denied the right to celebrate their heritage either. To say otherwise is faulty.


I have yet to see a liberal demanding that St. Patrick's Day not be celebrated outside of Ireland. Or Oktoberfest outside of Germany. So what is your point, exactly?

Because liberals think that celebrating "white" heritage is racist and should be stopped.

Been there actually. All of it. So what are you saying here. The blacks are part of your culture?

If they want to be, sure I don't have any problem with that.

Quote:
2. Are you implying there is a white Southern culture that is separate and distinct?

Yep.



Ok. Then why not give use examples of how it is sperate and distinct?

Ok. Then why not give use examples of how it is sperate and distinct?

We have "rednecks", we tried to seperate from the union. We even have our own language down here. We also have a very distinct accent. We also have a rich history and heritage that is connected to that history.

We have "rednecks", we tried to seperate from the union. We even have our own language down here. We also have a very distinct accent. We also have a rich history and heritage that is connected to that history.

"rednecks" and slavery is your heritage?

And yet, the blacks have The Black Panthers, they have the million man march, they have Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson. They have Black History Month, they have MLK day. They're not being denied the right to celebrate their heritage either. To say otherwise is faulty.

And yet, every single time these things come around in America, there seems to be huge controversy over whether they should even be allowed to have them. And on the subject of BHM and MLK day, what you're saying is, blacks get 1 month and 1 day, and whites get the other 10 months and 27 days? Wow, shows how much you actually think of black people...

Because liberals think that celebrating "white" heritage is racist and should be stopped.

Where are the liberals and blacks demanding that St. Patrick's day celebrations be stopped? Where are the liberals demanding that Oktoberfest be banned? Where are the liberals baying for the prevention of April Fool's Day? All the other days and weeks and months that are part of European culture that are celebrated in our calendar? Where are the liberals and blacks campaigning to prevent St. Valentines Day? The Queen's Birthday?

And yet, every single time these things come around in America, there seems to be huge controversy over whether they should even be allowed to have them. And on the subject of BHM and MLK day, what you're saying is, blacks get 1 month and 1 day, and whites get the other 10 months and 27 days? Wow, shows how much you actually think of black people...

Yea, because rest of the year is known at the White man's time. Yea let us not forget about White History Months. Also, let us prepare for General Lee's Day! Comon. Every other month is something like Breast Cancer month, etc. etc. There's not a White History month or even a day to celebrate a white American. Because if that were to happen. People like you would raise a stink over it on how it's racist!



Where are the liberals and blacks demanding that St. Patrick's day celebrations be stopped? Where are the liberals demanding that Oktoberfest be banned? Where are the liberals baying for the prevention of April Fool's Day? All the other days and weeks and months that are part of European culture that are celebrated in our calendar? Where are the liberals and blacks campaigning to prevent St. Valentines Day? The Queen's Birthday?

Those days aren't considered racist. But try to celebrate someone like General Lee, or Samual Davis and you'll get screamed at.

Not only did he leave almost a thousand buses sitting idle, letting people die instead.

:rolleyes:

Oh please, not the "Nagin left the School Buses to rot" myth again. As has been pointed out before, school buses require properly licensed drivers to operate legally- many of whom were probably too busy getting their own families out of New Orleans to start them up.

And remember the lawsuit against the company with the one bus that caught on fire during its escape from New Orleans and killed a bunch of elderly people? Now picture that as a school bus, and a class action lawsuit filed against the City of New Orleans, if not the state of Louisiana as a whole. That's what Nagin would have opened the city up to had he decided to allow uncertified people to start driving the school buses and even one of them got into a serious accident.

"rednecks" and slavery is your heritage?

You DO realize that theres more to Southern history beside the Civil War right? I mean we were doing things between 1865 and 2006 that we celebrate. Also, get this through your head, ONLY THE RICH PEOPLE OWNED SLAVES! My ancestor fought in the War, guess what that means. He wasn't rich, so thereforth he didn't own slaves!

Humanity and History are so terribly funny...Ironic humor mostly.

All Republicans were against slavery, but the then newly developed group was the most "radical" in it’s day, radical in its opposition to the "peculiar institution" of American history, slavery.

While tentative conservative members wanted to proceed with a measured emancipation and a colonization of the new Freedmen (i.e., the moderates wanted emancipation but only with reservations) The radicals of their day (the day being pre, during and immediately post civil war) the Radicals favored immediate eradication of all institutions they viewed as immoral and ultimately sinful, eying an end to the establishments and institutions of Slavery, looking at the war as a crusade for "Abolition."

And of course, the Democrats secession in in the South was triggered by the election of the republican Abraham Lincoln.

Irony to see these arguments today. ;)

You DO realize that theres more to Southern history beside the Civil War right? I mean we were doing things between 1865 and 2006 that we celebrate. Also, get this through your head, ONLY THE RICH PEOPLE OWNED SLAVES! My ancestor fought in the War, guess what that means. He wasn't rich, so thereforth he didn't own slaves!

You are the one that listed "rednecks" and seeking the Civil War as a unique part of your culture.

And don't start with that "the Civil War wasn't about slavery" bullshit. Read the declarations of secession or Alexander Stephen's Cornerstone speech. Slavery was the warp and woof of the South.

By the way, between 1865 and 1964 you had this little thing called segregation. Another proud century of white Southern culture.

You are the one that listed "rednecks" and seeking the Civil War as a unique part of your culture.

And don't start with that "the Civil War wasn't about slavery" bullshit. Read the declarations of secession or Alexander Stephen's Cornerstone speech. Slavery was the warp and woof of the South.

By the way, between 1865 and 1964 you had this little thing called segregation. Another proud century of white Southern culture.

I took 3 college courses on the Civil War. The Civil War was way much more about Slavery. Slavery was only used as an excuse to succeed the union. The Civil War was about the tug of war between the National Power and the State Power. It was about who would have more power, the National Government or the State Government. Glad to see public education is coming into use for ya.

Ok but who were the ones that started all this?

Who gives a shit?


:) Interesting. I am curious as to how you will define the culture of New Orleans?

I don't have to. That's up to the people of New Orleans. As long as they do so using actual cultural characteristics as opposed to skin color, I don't care.

On the simple matter of skin. You are correct. However, there are aspects of culture that come from cultures that are predominately black(Ie the Islands).

Sure, but it's not the skin color itself that makes the culture. Promote jazz musicians or basket weavers or loose women or whatever to come to your city, but don't define it by color, because having a black or white city is not a virtue in and of itself, something that Ray Nagin doesn't seem to understand.

Yea, because rest of the year is known at the White man's time. Yea let us not forget about White History Months. Also, let us prepare for General Lee's Day! Comon. Every other month is something like Breast Cancer month, etc. etc. There's not a White History month or even a day to celebrate a white American. Because if that were to happen. People like you would raise a stink over it on how it's racist!


Ok why do we need a white history month?

Can you name 10 famous white americans in history and what they did? Sports figures excluded.

Can you name 10 famous black americans in history and what they did? Sports figures excluded.


Those days aren't considered racist. But try to celebrate someone like General Lee, or Samual Davis and you'll get screamed at.

Because General Lee lost! Hmmmm ok we can give you General Lee day. But then we have to have General Grant day.

I just blanked on Samual Davis......

Yea, because rest of the year is known at the White man's time. Yea let us not forget about White History Months. Also, let us prepare for General Lee's Day! Comon. Every other month is something like Breast Cancer month, etc. etc. There's not a White History month or even a day to celebrate a white American. Because if that were to happen. People like you would raise a stink over it on how it's racist!

The reason that it exists is because White history, White culture, white everything is taught. It is accepted that WHITE history, literature, culture is naturally the best and most natural, and important. Black History Month highlights the need to recognise black history as equivalent and important as white history. It highlights the fact that there is a huge discrepancy between the importance placed on white versions of history, and white culture, and that of blacks.

And I believe that you have days for your presidents. Who would be white.



Those days aren't considered racist. But try to celebrate someone like General Lee, or Samual Davis and you'll get screamed at.

But they ARE a part of white culture. They are a celebration of white culture and white history. And it isn't even questioned that they should exist. So, what you're saying is that because the parts of American culture that you view as important are not accepted by the majority, you're going to say that blacks can't have 1 month and 1 day a year. I can't comment on the people you mentioned because I live in Australia and know nothing about the American Civil War, so I won't.

Who gives a shit?

:D

The reason that it exists is because White history, White culture, white everything is taught. It is accepted that WHITE history, literature, culture is naturally the best and most natural, and important. Black History Month highlights the need to recognise black history as equivalent and important as white history. It highlights the fact that there is a huge discrepancy between the importance placed on white versions of history, and white culture, and that of blacks.

And I believe that you have days for your presidents. Who would be white.

Nah we got rid of that and we now have "President Day". You do realize that most public school now include writings from black people, have classes on Africa History, African poetry etc. Hell we even look at the Pre-Civil War time from the slaves point of view. We also talk about every importan black person in History class. So to say that our education system is majority about white is faulty. It's now becoming more balance. Also, we now have the wonders of the internet. If people are serious about preserving their culture and heritage, they can do so by the wonders of the internet and the can look that stuff up by the internet.

But they ARE a part of white culture. They are a celebration of white culture and white history. And it isn't even questioned that they should exist. So, what you're saying is that because the parts of American culture that you view as important are not accepted by the majority, you're going to say that blacks can't have 1 month and 1 day a year. I can't comment on the people you mentioned because I live in Australia and know nothing about the American Civil War, so I won't.


No I'm not saying that. What I am saying is that not every white want to keep blacks out because they may "rape our women" "turn our children into gangsta" or any of those stupid reason. What I'm saying is that if the blacks have the right to preserve their heritage and culture, then every race, or ethnic person should have that right. It shouldn't be excluded to blacks.

I took 3 college courses on the Civil War. The Civil War was way much more about Slavery. Slavery was only used as an excuse to succeed the union. The Civil War was about the tug of war between the National Power and the State Power. It was about who would have more power, the National Government or the State Government. Glad to see public education is coming into use for ya.

Fallacious appeal to authority. I have a master's degree and a J.D. In getting those degrees, I also took courses about the civil war. So what?

A Declaration of the Immediate Causes which Induce and Justify the Secession of the State of Mississippi from the Federal Union. (http://members.aol.com/jfepperson/reasons.html#Mississippi)

.... Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery-- the greatest material interest of the world. Its labor supplies the product which constitutes by far the largest and most important portions of commerce of the earth. These products are peculiar to the climate verging on the tropical regions, and by an imperious law of nature, none but the black race can bear exposure to the tropical sun. These products have become necessities of the world, and a blow at slavery is a blow at commerce and civilization. That blow has been long aimed at the institution, and was at the point of reaching its consummation. There was no choice left us but submission to the mandates of abolition, or a dissolution of the Union, whose principles had been subverted to work out our ruin.
....



http://teachingamericanhistory.org/library/index.asp?document=76

Alexander H. Stephen's Cornerstone Speech:
...

But not to be tedious in enumerating the numerous changes for the better, allow me to allude to one other —though last, not least. The new constitution has put at rest, forever, all the agitating questions relating to our peculiar institution—African slavery as it exists amongst us—the proper status of the negro in our form of civilization. This was the immediate cause of the late rupture and present revolution. Jefferson in his forecast, had anticipated this, as the "rock upon which the old Union would split." He was right. What was conjecture with him, is now a realized fact. But whether he fully comprehended the great truth upon which that rock stood and stands, may be doubted. The prevailing ideas entertained by him and most of the leading statesmen at the time of the formation of the old constitution, were that the enslavement of the African was in violation of the laws of nature; that it was wrong in principle, socially, morally, and politically. It was an evil they knew not well how to deal with, but the general opinion of the men of that day was that, somehow or other in the order of Providence, the institution would be evanescent and pass away. This idea, though not incorporated in the constitution, was the prevailing idea at that time. The constitution, it is true, secured every essential guarantee to the institution while it should last, and hence no argument can be justly urged against the constitutional guarantees thus secured, because of the common sentiment of the day. Those ideas, however, were fundamentally wrong. They rested upon the assumption of the equality of races. This was an error. It was a sandy foundation, and the government built upon it fell when the "storm came and the wind blew."

Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite idea; its foundations are laid, its corner- stone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery—subordination to the superior race—is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth. This truth has been slow in the process of its development, like all other truths in the various departments of science. It has been so even amongst us. Many who hear me, perhaps, can recollect well, that this truth was not generally admitted, even within their day. The errors of the past generation still clung to many as late as twenty years ago. Those at the North, who still cling to these errors, with a zeal above knowledge, we justly denominate fanatics. All fanaticism springs from an aberration of the mind—from a defect in reasoning. It is a species of insanity. One of the most striking characteristics of insanity, in many instances, is forming correct conclusions from fancied or erroneous premises; so with the anti-slavery fanatics. Their conclusions are right if their premises were. They assume that the negro is equal, and hence conclude that he is entitled to equal privileges and rights with the white man. If their premises were correct, their conclusions would be logical and just—but their premise being wrong, their whole argument fails. I recollect once of having heard a gentleman from one of the northern States, of great power and ability, announce in the House of Representatives, with imposing effect, that we of the South would be compelled, ultimately, to yield upon this subject of slavery, that it was as impossible to war successfully against a principle in politics, as it was in physics or mechanics. That the principle would ultimately prevail. That we, in maintaining slavery as it exists with us, were warring against a principle, a principle founded in nature, the principle of the equality of men. The reply I made to him was, that upon his own grounds, we should, ultimately, succeed, and that he and his associates, in this crusade against our institutions, would ultimately fail. The truth announced, that it was as impossible to war successfully against a principle in politics as it was in physics and mechanics, I admitted; but told him that it was he, and those acting with him, who were warring against a principle. They were attempting to make things equal which the Creator had made unequal.

In the conflict thus far, success has been on our side, complete throughout the length and breadth of the Confederate States. It is upon this, as I have stated, our social fabric is firmly planted; and I cannot permit myself to doubt the ultimate success of a full recognition of this principle throughout the civilized and enlightened world.

....

I don't care how many courses you took. If you learned slavery wasn't the primary issue of secession and the War, you learned wrong.

I took 3 college courses on the Civil War. The Civil War was way much more about Slavery. Slavery was only used as an excuse to succeed the union. The Civil War was about the tug of war between the National Power and the State Power. It was about who would have more power, the National Government or the State Government. Glad to see public education is coming into use for ya.

And what was that power strugle about? How many slave states were getting added to the union.

Slavery was a factor. My cousin at the time kept a diary that is printed to this day. She wrote about her husband and his friends were excited at the aspects of getting the slave trade going again.....

*snip*
I don't care how many courses you took. If you learned slavery wasn't the primary issue of secession and the War, you learned wrong.

If that's an entirely fair assessment, why was the emancipation of the slaves legislation so late in coming?

It seems that the attempt to harness public determination toward the goal had some small measure in the reasoning of Lincoln on that act.

You're position is not without it's weaknesses I think.

Where are the liberals and blacks demanding that St. Patrick's day celebrations be stopped? Where are the liberals demanding that Oktoberfest be banned? Where are the liberals baying for the prevention of April Fool's Day? All the other days and weeks and months that are part of European culture that are celebrated in our calendar? Where are the liberals and blacks campaigning to prevent St. Valentines Day? The Queen's Birthday?

Don't forget the Highland games! We have those as well! ;)

Ok why do we need a white history month?

Can you name 10 famous white americans in history and what they did? Sports figures excluded.

Can you name 10 famous black americans in history and what they did? Sports figures excluded.

You have to keep in mind that blacks in the US have only had about 50 years to do much historically, while you could name 10 famous white people just from the Founding Fathers alone. That being said, here are a few, many of whom are more current than historical:

Martin Luther King, Jr. -- leader of the civil rights movement
Rosa Parks -- jump-started the civil rights movement by the small but brave action of refusing to give up her seat on a bus to a white man
Muhammad Ali -- I know you said no sports people, but I'm referring primarily to his war protest, not his boxing
Thurgood Marshall -- Supreme Court justice
Michael Jackson -- recorded the best-selling album of all time
Colin Powell -- former Secretary of State and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
Condoleezza Rice -- current Secretary of State
Maya Angelou -- famous author and civil rights activist (personally, I can't stand her writing style, but to each his own)
Clarence Thomas -- Supreme Court Justice
Dred Scott -- famous Supreme Court plaintiff who was declared to be property; the great example of the fallibility of the US Supreme Court

I think classifying history by skin color is absurd. Many of these people were immigrants who came long after slavery was abolished, so they don't even have that common tie. They come from many different countries and cultures.

The Civil War was about the tug of war between the National Power and the State Power. It was about who would have more power, the National Government or the State Government.

so when certain northern states refused to return runaway slaves, the south didn't demand that the federales force them to?

Don't forget the Highland games! We have those as well! ;)

I plead Australian :D

If that's an entirely fair assessment, why was the emancipation of the slaves legislation so late in coming?


It would have been a waste of time. What would he have gained by making such legislation when the South was fielding armies? It would have helped their recruitment effort for one thing.

When they were beat, he made his move.

Ok why do we need a white history month?

Can you name 10 famous white americans in history and what they did? Sports figures excluded.

Abe Lincolon (President)
Howard Hughes Jr. (Aviator, movie director, playboy)
The Wright Brothers (Invented the airplane)
Ronald Regan (President)
General Douglas Mc. Authur (Lead our forces in the Pacific theathre and Korean War)
Einsenhower (Lead our forces in the European Theathre and President)
Billy Graham (Preacher)
Jimmy Carter (President and humantarian)
Edison (Lightblub)
Ben. Franklin (one of the founding fathers and found electricity)


Can you name 10 famous black americans in history and what they did? Sports figures excluded.

Colin Powell (General, and Presidental advisor)
Martin Luther King Jr. (Civil Rights Leader)
Clarence Thomas (First black Supreme Court justice)
Harriet Beacher Stove (wrote Uncle Tom Cabin)
Harriet Tubman (Underground
Thurgood Marshall (US Supreme Court Justice)
Guy Bluford (First black Astronaunt)
Ron McNair (Second black Astronaunt, died on the Challenger)
Dr. Walter Williams (distinguished professor of economics at George Mason University)
Richard Pryor (Comedian)

The reason that it exists is because White history, White culture, white everything is taught. It is accepted that WHITE history, literature, culture is naturally the best and most natural, and important. Black History Month highlights the need to recognise black history as equivalent and important as white history. It highlights the fact that there is a huge discrepancy between the importance placed on white versions of history, and white culture, and that of blacks.

And I believe that you have days for your presidents. Who would be white.

There is no such thing as black or white history. There is cultural history, but this has little to do with skin color except incidentally. It isn't us versus them, either. It isn't white history that is taught; it is Western European history (and not all whites are European). As for black history in the US, what it is, exactly? There are many blacks who are not descendants of slaves, who haven't been persecuted, who aren't even from Africa. It is better to classify history by culture, not by race, as blacks have diverse origins and cultures, just like whites.

But they ARE a part of white culture. They are a celebration of white culture and white history. And it isn't even questioned that they should exist. So, what you're saying is that because the parts of American culture that you view as important are not accepted by the majority, you're going to say that blacks can't have 1 month and 1 day a year. I can't comment on the people you mentioned because I live in Australia and know nothing about the American Civil War, so I won't.

Here's a crazy idea: why doesn't the US make its own culture instead of squabbling over black this and white that? Wouldn't that be wild?

One of the things that I've seen repeatedly in this thread is the idea that Nagin was merely pandering to Black interests and trying to rally his "base". It should not be overlooked that despite his status as a democrat, his "base" is the business community, which was/is mostly white.

And to the difference between the Detroit/New Orleans example, it seems to me that the difference lies in the history and the power of the two groups involved. For example. When Mayor Nagin says that New Orleans will be a "chocolate" city, did anyone get the idea, seriously, that he would attempt to deny entrance to whites, hispanics, russians, and other ethnic groups. Blacks have never had the political power nor have they ever attempted, to my knowlege, to do anything of the kind on any large scale, such as New Orleans.

Now, Detroit, on the other hand. If the mayor of Detroit (after, what, a blizzard. Maybe after it gets floodded with pudding.), repopulating the city, said it was to be a majority white city, his statement carries more credibility. It sounds more as though he is going to try to exclude other ethnic groups. This tends to bring back memories of a time in which discrimination was openly practised. Like it or not, American history (well, World history too) shows that whites have, in the past, tried to discriminate on large scales against other ethnic groups, especially blacks here in America. Thankfully, by and large, this has ceased to be the case.

Were Nagin's statements correct or appropriate to make, certainly not, especially since he invoked God, which is never a good thing if you''re a politician in a supposedly secular government. However, I don't think he is a racist. I think that his statement basically tried to say that New Orleans will come back to the way it was before it was flooded, as a majority African-American city. I very much doubt that he intends to try to pass legislation or to take any personal action if, when people are finally deciding whether to come back, a massive influx of French immigrants (perhaps trying to retake the city) manages to outnumber the number of blacks there.

Though perhaps, instead of opening his mouth, he should have sat down to a nice snack of milk chocolate pudding.

Colin Powell (General, and Presidental advisor)
Martin Luther King Jr. (Civil Rights Leader)
Clarence Thomas (First black Supreme Court justice)
Harriet Beacher Stove (wrote Uncle Tom Cabin)
Harriet Tubman (Underground


Um.

You only came up with 5 blacks.

One of whom isn't black.

And you misidentified Clarence Thomas. Thurgood Marshall was the first black Supreme Court Justice.

Perhaps we need more Black History months after all.

Um.

You only came up with 5 blacks.

One of whom isn't black.

And you misidentified Clarence Thomas. Thurgood Marshall was the first black Supreme Court Justice.

Perhaps we need more Black History months after all.

Look again, I added in the other five. I had to sign back in and yea.

I listed 10 whites and 10 blacks. Don't really see what that proves though.

Look again, I added in the other five. I had to sign back in and yea.

I listed 10 whites and 10 blacks. Don't really see what that proves though.

Well, you still haven't named 10 blacks. One of your list isn't black. And you still misidentify Clarence Thomas.

You have to keep in mind that blacks in the US have only had about 50 years to do much historically, while you could name 10 famous white people just from the Founding Fathers alone. That being said, here are a few, many of whom are more current than historical:

Martin Luther King, Jr. -- leader of the civil rights movement
Rosa Parks -- jump-started the civil rights movement by the small but brave action of refusing to give up her seat on a bus to a white man
Muhammad Ali -- I know you said no sports people, but I'm referring primarily to his war protest, not his boxing
Thurgood Marshall -- Supreme Court justice
Michael Jackson -- recorded the best-selling album of all time
Colin Powell -- former Secretary of State and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
Condoleezza Rice -- current Secretary of State
Maya Angelou -- famous author and civil rights activist (personally, I can't stand her writing style, but to each his own)
Clarence Thomas -- Supreme Court Justice
Dred Scott -- famous Supreme Court plaintiff who was declared to be property; the great example of the fallibility of the US Supreme Court

Impressive. But current names are easier.

There are people that could not even name 10. Few would even recognise Dr. Charles Drew.

You overlook the point of the Black History month. It is not an action to "blackify" history. It's a point to say "you to have a history of contributions" It's an attempt to get black youth interested in reading about them. Afterall most US history centers on white people. They are predominate due to the ratios of course. However, there are significant contributions that have saved lives that rarely if ever get mentioned. Why is that? Plasma for example saved how many lives? And yet Drew is never mentioned.


I think classifying history by skin color is absurd. Many of these people were immigrants who came long after slavery was abolished, so they don't even have that common tie. They come from many different countries and cultures.

And yet you see people here who hold on to the events of 150 years ago. Are they the same people?

Again, it is more the simple skin classification. We don't need a white history month because it is more then covered.

Well, you still haven't named 10 blacks. One of your list isn't black. And you still misidentify Clarence Thomas.

*sigh* I give up. You're right, Blacks should have to right to exclude white because they're just trying to preserve their heritage and culture. But Noooo Whites can't do that because then they're just being racist. Whatever. :rolleyes:

Interesting.

Nobody mentioned Fredrick Douglas, Marion Anderson or Ella Fitzterald......

Impressive. But current names are easier.

As I said, there is waaaay less history to draw on, seeing as blacks haven't even had full civil rights for a full century yet.

There are people that could not even name 10. Few would even recognise Dr. Charles Drew.

You've got me, I haven't either. *looks him up* Sounds cool.

You overlook the point of the Black History month. It is not an action to "blackify" history. It's a point to say "you to have a history of contributions" It's an attempt to get black youth interested in reading about them. Afterall most US history centers on white people. They are predominate due to the ratios of course. However, there are significant contributions that have saved lives that rarely if ever get mentioned. Why is that? Plasma for example saved how many lives? And yet Drew is never mentioned.
I certainly think such contributions should be recognized, and I don't think black history month "blackifies" history. I simply think that it isn't right to classify history as being black or white. We're all in this together. Neither a black nor a white history month promotes the formation of an all-inclusive culture in the US.

And yet you see people here who hold on to the events of 150 years ago. Are they the same people?

Again, it is more the simple skin classification. We don't need a white history month because it is more then covered.

Oh, we definitely don't need a white history month, we just need all history to be painted with the same brush, whether the people involved are black, white, purple or green. I don't think black history should be any more important to a black person than white history, and vice-versa. Now, *cultural* history I can understand (i.e. "wow, that guy came from the same culture/region of the world that I did, and look at all the cool shit he did") but blacks don't have a cohesive history any more than whites do.

*sigh* I give up. You're right, Blacks should have to right to exclude white because they're just trying to preserve their heritage and culture. But Noooo Whites can't do that because then they're just being racist. Whatever. :rolleyes:

How is "your" history being denied. Where is it not being taught?

Why do you feel the need to celibrate being white?

How is "your" history being denied. Where is it not being taught?

Why do you feel the need to celibrate being white?

Because it's my right to celebrate my whiteness, and its my right to preseve my heritage and culture.

Because it's my right to celebrate my whiteness, and its my right to preseve my heritage and culture.

in other words, because you are a racist with no grasp of history or cultures

in other words, because you are a racist

How the hell does that make me a racist? How come when a white person wants to celebrate who he is, and where his family tree come from he is racist? But if a black man does it, he's not a racist? Where do yall get this from?

Oh, we definitely don't need a white history month, we just need all history to be painted with the same brush, whether the people involved are black, white, purple or green. I don't think black history should be any more important to a black person than white history, and vice-versa. Now, *cultural* history I can understand (i.e. "wow, that guy came from the same culture/region of the world that I did, and look at all the cool shit he did") but blacks don't have a cohesive history any more than whites do.

Don't get me wrong. I agree. I try not to see people as black white or green. Except purple! I refuse to acknowledge that bastard dinosaur! :p

It's easy to "armchair" analyze what things should be and then it's another to write a history book that would interest most children. ;)

How the hell does that make me a racist? How come when a white person wants to celebrate who he is, and where his family tree come from he is racist? But if a black man does it, he's not a racist? Where do yall get this from?

because there is no such thing as 'white culture'. there is no such thing as 'white heritage'. the closest you can get is celebrating several centuries of racist oppression. cause beyond that there ain't no such beast.

because there is no such thing as 'white culture'. there is no such thing as 'white heritage'. the closest you can get is celebrating several centuries of racist oppression. cause beyond that there ain't no such beast.

Prove it that there is no "White Heritage", and at the same time prove that there is a "Black Heritage".

Prove it that there is no "White Heritage", and at the same time prove that there is a "Black Heritage".

easy. people with lighter skin tones by and large came to america voluntarily, and in doing so brought with them a wide variety of cultural traditions that have sweet fuck-all to do with the white race and everything to do with particular cultural identities. these things have evolved in various ways since then, none of which amount to 'white heritage'.

blacks on the other hand were largely brought here by force, had the expression of their cultural traditions outlawed, and were subject to a very special set of circumstances out of which an entirely new cultural identity was formed. and since the circumstances they found themselves in made so much of skin color, this newly formed identity did likewise.

ta-fucking-da

easy. people with lighter skin tones by and large came to america voluntarily, and in doing so brought with them a wide variety of cultural traditions that have sweet fuck-all to do with the white race and everything to do with particular cultural identities. these things have evolved in various ways since then, none of which amount to 'white heritage'.

And yet, I not only trace my heritage back to my ancestor who fought for the Southerners, but I also trace it back to the Ancestors who fled from Germany in the 1900 because of the Kiasers. Both side of my family handed down stories, songs, pictures, memorbolia, recipie. We also handed out beliefs structures, and how to raise the next generation. They both handed down advices, suggestion experiences and wisdom. They handed all of that down from generation to generation to me, my brother and my cousins and other family members of my generation. I don't know about you but that's consider ed heritage and culture in my book.


blacks on the other hand were largely brought here by force, had the expression of their cultural traditions outlawed, and were subject to a very special set of circumstances out of which an entirely new cultural identity was formed. and since the circumstances they found themselves in made so much of skin color, this newly formed identity did likewise.

ta-fucking-da

And yet, blacks were not only able to trace themselves from Africa, but from France, The UK, all over the world. Just like the whites they also brought diffrent things to the table, and every black family did the same thing that my family and every white family did.

So I just prove that there is a White and Black Heritage.

There is no such thing as black or white history. There is cultural history, but this has little to do with skin color except incidentally. It isn't us versus them, either. It isn't white history that is taught; it is Western European history (and not all whites are European). As for black history in the US, what it is, exactly? There are many blacks who are not descendants of slaves, who haven't been persecuted, who aren't even from Africa. It is better to classify history by culture, not by race, as blacks have diverse origins and cultures, just like whites.



Here's a crazy idea: why doesn't the US make its own culture instead of squabbling over black this and white that? Wouldn't that be wild?

You know what, a few posts back I actually clarified this whole point. I was referring to the fact that the heritage of a significant minority of a particular society at a particular point in time, who associated themselves as part of one culture was being ignored. And I did state that it was European history that was taught and that it was this term with which I was associating the adjective white. You are being pedantic. No-one here is attempting to suggest that black history or culture is homogenous, any more than trying to suggest the same about white history or culture. But one cannot escape the fact that people whose skin happens to be a certain colour identify with certain ideas, opinions and persons, and refer to this as black or white culture. People who have skin of a certain darker shade, and who are a minority in your country happen to collectively call a set of specific behaviours, attitudes, values and beliefs black culture.

Why is it that we teach ancient Roman history, Ancient Greek history, and to a lesser extent, Ancient Egyptian History, but we spend very little time on Ancient African history, Ancient Asian history, or in my case, Ancient Indigenous history? Because Western European culture as you call it, happens to believe that these two empires are the cradle of enlightenment. And it is Western European descendents who control our education system. Why do we study say, Shakespeare, and the great European poets as the great or the classic poets, but poets whose skin is a slightly different shade are discussed as "ethnic" writers, their perspectives presented as exotic, the other, if indeed they are presented at all? Why do we privelige Western European traditions of narrative and essay as more valid than other narrative and essay structures?

The US does have its own culture, and it has many, many co-cultures within the broader culture, which have the right to be considered and examined with the same validity and emphasis as the broader, Western European influenced culture of US entire. All of these should be examined, all of the time. The history of one group should not dominate that of all the others.

This is why I support 'multiculturalism' or 'miscegenation.'

So self-righteous, whiny racialists can stop going on about "black pride" and "white power." Or black power and white pride, whichever.

So just for once, a media opinion poll can list the results without breaking it down by race.

So people can stop going on like "oh so it's OK for Blacks to do this but I, a White cannot? OH AFRICA, YOU HYPOCRITE! TWO WRONGS MAKE A RIGHT DAMMIT!"

I really don't care about anyone's "culture" if their culture is nothing more than their fucking SKIN COLOR.

If "chocolate" or "vanilla" is the only way you can refer to your culture, chances are I'd rather not have tonight's cultural dessert, thank you.

So yeah, I hope one day everyone is just sorta asian-black-white-latino-etc. It'd make things a lot simpler, for one thing.

You know what, a few posts back I actually clarified this whole point. I was referring to the fact that the heritage of a significant minority of a particular society at a particular point in time, who associated themselves as part of one culture was being ignored. And I did state that it was European history that was taught and that it was this term with which I was associating the adjective white. You are being pedantic. No-one here is attempting to suggest that black history or culture is homogenous, any more than trying to suggest the same about white history or culture.

Then let's not call it black history, since there is no such thing. Let's not classify history and culture by skin color. It will solve a whole lot of issues. It seems to me as though a lot of people do tend to lump black and white culture into two big categories when doing so is not supported by facts.

But one cannot escape the fact that people whose skin happens to be a certain colour identify with certain ideas, opinions and persons, and refer to this as black or white culture. People who have skin of a certain darker shade, and who are a minority in your country happen to collectively call a set of specific behaviours, attitudes, values and beliefs black culture.

Then they are only adding to the problem. Call it something more accurate instead of heightening racial tensions.

Why is it that we teach ancient Roman history, Ancient Greek history, and to a lesser extent, Ancient Egyptian History, but we spend very little time on Ancient African history, Ancient Asian history, or in my case, Ancient Indigenous history? Because Western European culture as you call it, happens to believe that these two empires are the cradle of enlightenment. And it is Western European descendents who control our education system. Why do we study say, Shakespeare, and the great European poets as the great or the classic poets, but poets whose skin is a slightly different shade are discussed as "ethnic" writers, their perspectives presented as exotic, the other, if indeed they are presented at all? Why do we privelige Western European traditions of narrative and essay as more valid than other narrative and essay structures?

The US does have its own culture, and it has many, many co-cultures within the broader culture, which have the right to be considered and examined with the same validity and emphasis as the broader, Western European influenced culture of US entire. All of these should be examined, all of the time. The history of one group should not dominate that of all the others.

This is completely outside the scope of my argument, which is simply that there is no such thing as black or white history. I have already acknowledged that there is Western European history and African history; which should have more emphasis is irrelevant. As long as they are seen as cultures instead of racial groupings, since the races involved are only incidental, which gets taught when where is not of particular concern to me as far as this topic goes.

And yet, I not only trace my heritage back to my ancestor who fought for the Southerners, but I also trace it back to the Ancestors who fled from Germany in the 1900 because of the Kiasers. Both side of my family handed down stories, songs, pictures, memorbolia, recipie. We also handed out beliefs structures, and how to raise the next generation. They both handed down advices, suggestion experiences and wisdom. They handed all of that down from generation to generation to me, my brother and my cousins and other family members of my generation. I don't know about you but that's consider ed heritage and culture in my book.

that's nice, but 'white heritage' it is not. there are a number of different cultures that are represented/blended/reinvented among the people socially defined as 'white' in america, but there is no 'white heritage'. them's just the facts.

perhaps if there had been some sort of massive social event that destroyed most of the pre-existing cultural traditions, and a social and political system in place that strictly defined and limited the life-options for people entirely on the basis of whether they had 'white' skin, causing those people to band together and create a new cultural identity in which 'whiteness' played a central role rather than geography (ancestral or recent). but that didn't happen.

perhaps if there had been some sort of massive social event that destroyed most of the pre-existing cultural traditions, and a social and political system in place that strictly defined and limited the life-options for people entirely on the basis of whether they had 'white' skin, causing those people to band together and create a new cultural identity in which 'whiteness' played a central role rather than geography (ancestral or recent). but that didn't happen. Perhaps there hasn't been a single event or tragedy to change the culture of "white" Americans but I'd argue that "white" Americans share very little of the culture or traditions of thier, presumed, European ancestors. Let whatever gulit or indignation of whatever you feel over your ancestors, very unlikely, role in slavery or other oppression of Americans of African decent excuse all of the African American racists you can find. You are wrong, in my opinion, for basing this on a unique African American heritage or culture. I don't know any Americans who observe any culture from thier ancestors.

Perhaps there hasn't been a single event or tragedy to change the culture of "white" Americans but I'd argue that "white" Americans share very little of the culture or traditions of thier, presumed, European ancestors.

Well.....You would sorta be right about those that have been here multi-generations.

However, cultures are not set in stone. They adapt to new surroundings. If we all shared the European experience then we would not be americans.

However, you do find bits and peaces all over the place.

There are people that still retain some of the traditions. I know how to make sausage and cook a few polish dishes. I can read some polish. Speaking it has degenerated due to non-usage.

The Scottish side? I have the Kilt from Scotland and attend the games.

You know when I first read your comments for some reason I thought you were going to say white people have no culture. A friends boyfriend used to say that(he is Mexican) until I took him to the Highland games in Santa Rosa. He was surprised to hear they had been going on for over 100 years.

Ahhh well.

Perhaps there hasn't been a single event or tragedy to change the culture of "white" Americans but I'd argue that "white" Americans share very little of the culture or traditions of thier, presumed, European ancestors.

oh, no doubt we have new and different stuff going on over here, and only some remaining artifacts of ancestral cultures. for example, think about the kinds of food and drinks made and celebrated in various places around the country. to a large extent they depend on where the people who settled there came from. these things have evolved since then, but my point is that these evolved cultural traditions are regional, not racial.

african americans, on the other hand, do have a shared cultural heritage that is based to a large extent on socially defined racial lines, due to the specific historical circumstances of slavery and segregation and racism. of course, this also was largely a regional culture for much of its existence, until the great migration of blacks to northern and western cities (you can still see the region in demographic maps such as this one (http://www.censusscope.org/us/map_nhblack.html)).

I don't know any Americans who observe any culture from thier ancestors.

you probably just don't know what to look for. what sort of festivals/parties/holidays do they emphasize where you live? how do people like their alcohol? what sort of food products are particularly popular there? what kind of names are children given? etc.

culture completely surrounds us.

Well.....You would sorta be right about those that have been here multi-generations.

However, cultures are not set in stone. They adapt to new surroundings. If we all shared the European experience then we would not be americans.

However, you do find bits and peaces all over the place.

There are people that still retain some of the traditions. I know how to make sausage and cook a few polish dishes. I can read some polish. Speaking it has degenerated due to non-usage.

The Scottish side? I have the Kilt from Scotland and attend the games.

You know when I first read your comments for some reason I thought you were going to say white people have no culture. A friends boyfriend used to say that(he is Mexican) until I took him to the Highland games in Santa Rosa. He was surprised to hear they had been going on for over 100 years.

Ahhh well.

Wow, that's pretty cool man. I can cook some German dish that my dad side brought with them, and sometimes we would celebrate Oktoberfest. (sorry if spelling is off). On my mom side well, let's just say they do stuff that rednecks do. I'll admit that my mom side is redneck lol. However we do go to Civil War battle re-enactment, country music concerts, etc. So I celebrate my german side as well as my redneck/country side.

yeah I'd been hearing some disturbing rumours about just how New Orleans was supposedly going to be rebuilt to the ultimate exclusion of area residents. I don't really think Nagin is out of line on this - I think he needs to reassure his constituency that they aren't going to be squeezed out of their home by Big Money and a certain Disneyfication of their city. He's done that.

Maybe he stepped on the toes of those like the OP, but as far as I'm concerned, this is just water off a duck's back. De nada. Rien d'importance. Nix. Funny take about God these days, though.

interesting point.

my brother lives in n.o.

yes he is rich as well.after the cane,we talked..his house was obliterated and he went to houston.
he lives on lake ponch and was mulling not going back to rebuild and just staying in houston.(his firm has offices there as well.)

i told him he was crazy to not rebuild.imho,real estate will go thru the roof there shortly,i felt(and correctly it seems)that alot of poor people would not return,the city planners would use the cane as an excuse to clear out alot of the poor areas(and believe me,ive been there and you dont want to go off the beaten path there or you will be killed..if your white in some neighborhoods,and in the poor white areas,you better watch your back as well)
that is just plain bad for biz,tourists getting killed/mugged/raped/robbed,so they would find some reason to push them out and make parks and such.

hate to say it,but it aint such a bad idea,money does make the world go round.
it is a really neat city(excluding the very dangerous areas)and why not push the people out that are dragging it down?
i know it sounds terrible,but keep in mind there is plenty of poor whites too,so this isnt nessacarily a completely rascist thing they are trying to do,it is affecting a large number of poor blacks though.

i love going there,i just took my daughter there last year,and had a blast when i wasnt having to keep 1 eye on her for fear of her being assaulted.

my prediction is...1/3 of the population wont return,they will upgrade the levees,bulldoze the poor neighborhoods and make a kinda suburban thing there,along with alot of parks and such.

is that such a bad thing?

That mayor is a bit crazy. It is racist to say that his city should be majority black. That makes it sound like white people are less welcome than black people.

How is "your" history being denied. Where is it not being taught?

Why do you feel the need to celibrate being white?

Why do they feel the need to celebrate being black?

Why do they feel the need to celebrate being black?

black people feel the need to celebrate their cultural identity because they have suffered oppression for centuries from whites whether in america or elsewhere. In fact in america they continue to suffer oppression due to institutionalized racism. I think its only fair that they should celebrate being black in the face of so much shit directed at them.

Why do they feel the need to celebrate being black?

same reason that americans of irish descent tend to party particularly hard on st patrick's day.

being black in america is to be part of a unified cultural group. being white in america isn't.

black people feel the need to celebrate their cultural identity because they have suffered oppression for centuries from whites whether in america or elsewhere. In fact in america they continue to suffer oppression due to institutionalized racism. I think its only fair that they should celebrate being black in the face of so much shit directed at them.

What exactly do you mean by institutionalized racism? I know you don't mean legislated racism -- because it's not against blacks, it's against whites, if you are going to make a call for legislated racism at all -- so what exactly are you talking about?

same reason that americans of irish descent tend to party particularly hard on st patrick's day.

being black in america is to be part of a unified cultural group. being white in america isn't.

Exactly, like the Scots have their games and celibrate Bobby Burns. The MacDonalds honor Glencoe.

A racist says he is proud to be white. A human says he is proud to be Polish, Irish, Scots, Canadian, American,......

Exactly, like the Scots have their games and celibrate Bobby Burns. The MacDonalds honor Glencoe.

A racist says he is proud to be right. A human says he is proud to be Polish, Irish, Scots, Canadian, American,......

I missed that "proud to be right" part right there....

I missed that "proud to be right" part right there....

Gah. Typo.....

I find it odd that a person of any race can get up and say, "one day, this city will be composed of a majority of people of my race".

If a white male politician announced in public that "one day, Savannah will be white again," he would be hounded out of office immediately.

Nagin is a racist twit, pure and simple.

Nagin is a racist twit, pure and simple.

I concur. I really don't give a crap if you're proud of being whatever race you are, but giving benefits or removing benefits on the basis of race is not only stupid, it's unconstitutional.

I concur. I really don't give a crap if you're proud of being whatever race you are, but giving benefits or removing benefits on the basis of race is not only stupid, it's unconstitutional.

Exactly. It should be either all races can say this kind of stuff, or none can. Personally, I dont care which as long as its one of the two.

Exactly. It should be either all races can say this kind of stuff, or none can. Personally, I dont care which as long as its one of the two.

Personally, I think all races should be allowed to say it. You're a racist? Who cares? Shout your opinions off the highest mountain top!

You have the right to say anything, and everyone else has the right to say anything back, IMO. As long as no one throws a punch.

Or a bullet, or a riot (*cough*LA*cough)