NationStates Jolt Archive

The Finlanders are voting in the first round of their Presidential Election today.

The current president Tarja Halonen (s) still seems to maintain her high popularity, but some opinion polls show that she now might just miss out on getting elected in the first round. Maybe she will go on to face Sauli Niinistö (coalition party) or prime minister Matti Vanhanen (centre party).

Wandering if their are any Finnish (or any other) people who wish to comment? Have you all voted... and did you vote for Tarja. Do you hope for a second round?

The newspapers here in Sweden have been writing in very warm terms about the state of Finland in the last few days. I think the old jealousy of economic growth is going the other way around these days.

I was just thinking that someone (=me) should start a thread about the election. But I'm lazy and I didn't :)

For the first time in my life I haven't voted and I'm not going to. I really don't like any of the candidates and I don't dislike anyone enough to vote against them. The president has very little political power anyway.

I hope there will be a second round (but I can't explain why) and I quess I'll vote then. I'm quite sure that Niinistö is the only one who may threaten Halonen's re-election tonight.

My mother used to date with Niinistö when they were teenagers :D

And I'm pretty damn sure that my mother did not vote him...

Ha ha, that's funny. So, it was a bad split up ;)

So, is apathy quite spread? Here we just assume that Halonen is going to be reelected, the stories in the papers pretty much suggest that she already is as good as reelected.... Finland's muminmamma ;)

I was afraid of this. The dirty foreigners of NS trying to influence our elections...

Kidding aside - there never was a question if she'd be re-elected. It was more about how many rounds it would take. I'm afraid it only takes one. I would have hoped for more in depth discussions between the candidates. That is hard to do when there's 8 candidates in the first round.

Ha ha, that's funny. So, it was a bad split up ;)

So, is apathy quite spread? Here we just assume that Halonen is going to be reelected, the stories in the papers pretty much suggest that she already is as good as reelected.... Finland's muminmamma ;)
Naaaa, I don't think so. My mon just says that he wasn't smart enough. And that he was too serious, no sense of humor what so ever.

Yes, apathy is live and kicking (if that can be said about apathy :) )
I quess many won't bother because they assume the same (that Halonen is practically re-elected already). Quite many also seem to share my view. We don't really care who wins. (as long as it is one of the top 3 or 4).

I was afraid of this. The dirty foreigners of NS trying to influence our elections...

Kidding aside - there never was a question if she'd be re-elected. It was more about how many rounds it would take. I'm afraid it only takes one. I would have hoped for more in depth discussions between the candidates. That is hard to do when there's 8 candidates in the first round.
Agreed. They didn't discuss about anything else than their favourite icehockey team and NATO. And after 15 discussions I still don't know who wants Finland to join NATO and who doesn't. blaah, yaddayaddayadda...

btw. I'm quite sure that if Niinistö had been a candidate 6 years ago, he would be our current president. Now he doesn't have a chance.

I'm not finnish, but I'm rooting for Tarja, because she supposedly looks like Conan O'brien (yes, he mentioned that on his show). :D

I'm not finnish, but I'm rooting for Tarja, because she supposedly looks like Conan O'brien (yes, he mentioned that on his show). :DArggh. I heard O'brien is coming to Finland to shoot some material... wanna bet wether he gets a presidential audience or not..? Potential embarrassment looming there. *sigh*

Arggh. I heard O'brien is coming to Finland to shoot some material... wanna bet wether he gets a presidential audience or not..? Potential embarrassment looming there. *sigh*
Embarrassment? what kind?

http://www.finlandforthought.net/wp-content/tarja_halonen_conan_obrien.jpg

subtitle: paid by "the worst reasons to reelect Tarja Halonen" Comittee


Thoughts from an American who lives in Finland
http://www.finlandforthought.net/

I’d too vote for Donald Duck

Tomorrow is the first round of the Finnish Presidential elections. Each election term, Aku Ankka (Donald Duck in Finnish) is traditionally the most voted for non-candidate. It’s kinda like saying, “None of the above”. That’s how I’d be inclined to vote, if I was a Finnish citizen. Eight choices and not one of them I feel strongly about - and with such a high percentage of Finns still undecided, I’m obviously not the only one.

Americans are often criticized because they always have two choices for President, well Finland only has one choice for President, Tarja Halonen. Maybe she’ll have to go two rounds, maybe she won’t - who cares, she’s going to win regardless. She’s polling at 51%, the second place candidate was something like 23% last time I checked. How often do you see an American Presidential candidate polling at alomst a 30 point lead? Not too often.

Eight candidates in the Finnish elections and not one of them socially liberal. In Finland, even the damn Green Party candidate doesn’t support the legalization of marijuana. Sheesh! You know your country has some social troubles when you can’t even get the Green Party to allow pot. Finland’s Liberal Party was originally planning to run Arto Lahti on their ticket but as it turns out, Arto Lahti isn’t really “liberal” when it comes to social issues.

When I last voted for President in the state of Maryland (2004) there were seven candidates on the ballot - my candidate placed fourth, almost defeating Ralph Nader. They had as much chance winning the Presidency as Sauli Niinistö and Matti Vanhanen…and Aku Ankka. So if anyone tells you that you’re “wasting your vote” on Aku Ankka, just bend over and shake your tail feather at’em

Isn't it just the SFP candidate who's serious about NATO?
(Which is weird really... I think to even suggest it here would not be a good move politically for a politician).

Donald Duck often tries to get into the Riksdag here on write-in votes as well... he's not done so well of late though.

Embarrassment? what kind?
As Helioterra mentioned, our president is severely lacking in the humour department.

Hey, Bunnyducks, have you seen these?

Some of them are pretty good.
http://www.jonhs.net/sauliniinisto/

Ghehehe. Pretty good ones in there. I wonder if they are supposed to be pro or con... To me, almost all of them seem to soften his image. ;)

As Helioterra mentioned, our president is severely lacking in the humour department.
that sucks :(

Isn't it just the SFP candidate who's serious about NATO?
(Which is weird really... I think to even suggest it here would not be a good move politically for a politician).

Donald Duck often tries to get into the Riksdag here on write-in votes as well... he's not done so well of late though.
Yes, Lax is probably most proNATO of the candidates but also Niinistö has quite strong opinions about it. Hautala (green) and Soini (joke) are the only ones who are strongly against it. Others just yaddayaddayadda it. It's quite weird really. About 75% of Finns don't want to join NATO. They just keep making gallups so long that it starts to seem that the majority wants to join. (with questions like would you like Finland to join NATO if Russia attacks us etc...)

As Helioterra mentioned, our president is severely lacking in the humour department.
Actually I said that Niinistö lacks any sense of humour but I agree that so does Mrs President.

Yes, Lax is probably most proNATO of the candidates but also Niinistö has quite strong opinions about it. Hautala (green) and Soini (joke) are the only ones who are strongly against it. Others just yaddayaddayadda it. It's quite weird really. About 75% of Finns don't want to join NATO. They just keep making gallups so long that it starts to seem that the majority wants to join. (with questions like would you like Finland to join NATO if Russia attacks us etc...)

Does Lax want Sweden to join NATO then as well? What is his argument for joining? I would have thought it would be a stupid argument for him to make. NATO here is as unpopular with the public as in Finland, maybe even more so... and surely many of his core voters watch Swedish tv, so that opinion is bound to doubly rub of on them isn't it? Seems odd to me.

You're right though, many of our politicians also just sing a little song of nothingness or give a solidly decisive nja when they are asked the question (or indeed any question actually).

Does Lax want Sweden to join NATO then as well? What is his argument for joining? I would have thought it would be a stupid argument for him to make. NATO here is as unpopular with the public as in Finland, maybe even more so... and surely many of his core voters watch Swedish tv, so that opinion is bound to doubly rub of on them isn't it? Seems odd to me.

You're right though, many of our politicians also just sing a little song of nothingness or give a solidly decisive nja when they are asked the question (or indeed any question actually).
hmm...to be honest, I don't have a clue. I haven't really paid any attention to what he has said.... I had to check from his site:
http://www.henriklax.nu/svenska/valmanifest.asp

ETT TROVÄRDIGT FÖRSVAR

...Att förslaget till grundfördrag för Europeiska unionen p.g.a. folkomröstningarna i Frankrike och Nederländerna nu lagts på is bekräftar att det militära försvaret av Europa för långa tider framåt kommer att skötas av NATO. Det stora flertalet av unionens medlemsländer har valt ett medlemskap i NATO som garanti för sitt försvar. Varför skall Finland ställa sig utanför?

Vår statsledning och riksdag är eniga om att Finland behöver ett trovärdigt militärt försvar. Med beaktande av den snabba militärteknologiska utvecklingen är det på sikt inte möjligt att upprätthålla denna trovärdighet med de nationella resurser vi har. De flesta små länderna i Europa har dragit slutsatsen att bara ett NATO-medlemskap ger dem denna trovärdighet.

...Inte ger Danmarks eller Norges medlemskap heller fog för tvivel på små länders möjlighet att hävda sina intressen inom alliansen. Finland har redan nu ett omfattande samarbete med NATO. Vi har deltagit i återuppbyggnadsarbetet i Bosnien och Kosovo tillsammans med NATO och gör det också nu i Afghanistan – ett arbete som stärker vår egen säkerhet.

Samstämmiga uttalanden av säkerhetspolitiska analytiker har konstaterat att de baltiska ländernas anslutning till NATO främjat stabiliteten i våra närområden. Varför skulle effekten vara den motsatta om också Finland gjorde samma val? Till och med Rysslands president Vladimir Putin har, om också i spekulativa termer, talat om ett framtida ryskt medlemskap i organisationen. Genom det gemensamma rådet för NATO och Ryssland medverkar landet redan nu i flertalet aktiviteter som upprätthålls av alliansen.

Själv upplever jag det som naturligt och föga dramatiskt att också Finland skulle ansluta sig till NATO. Det är psykologiskt viktigt för oss att slutligt skaka av oss skuggan av den s.k. finlandiseringen. Detta sker inte om Finland inte fullt ut anser sig kunna delta i de västliga demokratiernas samarbete – NATO medräknat. Ett medlemskap skulle göra slut på alla spekulationer om Finlands säkerhetspolitik och ge oss möjlighet att delta i viktiga beslut om vår framtid.

There was something in today's DN about the differences in politicians' NATO-behaviour between Finland and Sweden. http://www.dn.se/DNet/jsp/polopoly.jsp?d=573&a=513062&previousRenderType=2
Knock yourself out.

There was something in today's DN about the differences in politicians' NATO-behaviour between Finland and Sweden. http://www.dn.se/DNet/jsp/polopoly.jsp?d=573&a=513062&previousRenderType=2
Knock yourself out.
"Och trots att flertalet medborgare är Natoskeptiska kommer de att acceptera ett sådant avgörande." :mad:

Father knows best

Father knows best
That's what I hate the most in Finnish "politics". There isn't any real discussion about any issue. They just keep saying "eventually Finland will join" NATO/EU/EMU We can't avoid it anymore...we better talk about how to do it...the EU/EMU/NATO train is already moving (and can not be stopped) etc etc

Hmm, Lax seems to be following a Lax agenda rather than a get elected agenda!

I read the DN article this morning over breakfast (well, really lunch, one too many drinks last night I think... ). Lots of our paper's seem to be in love with Finland at the moment.

I think we should be more like Finland on the EU. But then we are Swedes... we seem to be incapable of not looking down on everything that isn't Swedish... I look forward to the day when i can be 100% sure of getting the change in the same money as I paid with on the booze crossings to your side of the Baltic (last time they didn't have enough SEK left)!

Actually I said that Niinistö lacks any sense of humour but I agree that so does Mrs President.

How come? :confused:

Hmm, Lax seems to be following a Lax agenda rather than a get elected agenda!

I read the DN article this morning over breakfast (well, really lunch, one too many drinks last night I think... ). Lots of our paper's seem to be in love with Finland at the moment.

I think we should be more like Finland on the EU. But then we are Swedes... we seem to be incapable of not looking down on everything that isn't Swedish... I look forward to the day when i can be 100% sure of getting the change in the same money as I paid with on the booze crossings to your side of the Baltic (last time they didn't have enough SEK left)!
heh. well Lax can say what ever he wants. The sfp candidate gets always the same percentage. Ah, no, last time they were even leading the gallups at some point with Elisabeth Rehn as their candidate!

Anyway, Lax knows he would never get more than 5% of the votes.

So you're pro euro? Aren't most of the Swedes still against it?

heh. well Lax can say what ever he wants. The sfp candidate gets always the same percentage. Ah, no, last time they were even leading the gallups at some point with Elisabeth Rehn as their candidate!

Anyway, Lax knows he would never get more than 5% of the votes.

So you're pro euro? Aren't most of the Swedes still against it?
Yes, actually the EMU and EU are getting even more unpopular today than they were when we had the referendum.

But, I am with caution pro-euro, yes... In Stockholm, a majority (just) voted yes in the referendum before. It was the countryside that thinks even more with our old way of "If it's not from Sweden, it sucks". Well, slight exageration, but I think it was more of thoughts in that direction than anything economic.

Even the actual EU membership probably wouldn't get a yes vote (or at least it would be tough) if they held a vote on that tomorrow.

How come? :confused:
What you mean "how come"? I think that both Niinistö and Halonen lack the sense of humour. Simple as that :)

Any guesstimates about the voting percentage? It was 76.9% in the first round in 2000, but there wasn't an incumbent running. I'd say it's around or under 73%. What say you?

Even the actual EU membership probably wouldn't get a yes vote (or at least it would be tough) if they held a vote on that tomorrow.
Same here. Even I'm not sure how I'd vote. What EU says and what EU does are complete opposites. Every single decicion benefits the biggest and the loudest in business and serioulsy damages the possibilities of the smaller companies to succeed in business.

Any guesstimates about the voting percentage? It was 76.9% in the first round in 2000, but there wasn't an incumbent running. I'd say it's around or under 73%. What say you?
67%

Bunnyducks, have you voted?

I have, yes. Haven't missed a single election in 18 years.

I'm afraid that your prediction will prove to be more accurate than mine - damned be this optimism of mine!

Why are Finns hesitant to join NATO?
According to wikipedia, Finland has a high gun ownership rate and a rather large army for its population size. I assume this was for protection against the USSR back in the day? Is this also why Finns don't want to join NATO (you are already armed and defended)?

I have, yes. Haven't missed a single election in 18 years.

I'm afraid that your prediction will prove to be more accurate than mine - damned be this optimism of mine!
This is the first time I'm not voting. In 2000 I voted for Hautala (and Halonen on the second round). I really thought about it this time too but no. I don't agree with her as much as I used to. And she voted for the new copyright law. Unforgivable. (almost)

Why are Finns hesitant to join NATO?
According to wikipedia, Finland has a high gun ownership rate and a rather large army for its population size. I assume this was for protection against the USSR back in the day? Is this also why Finns don't want to join NATO (you are already armed and defended)?

I think it has a LOT to do with Finnish people disaproving what USA is doing at the moment, and lets face it, UN and NATO both are in USA:s pocked. And Finnish people would be sended to be killed to protect USA:s foreing interests.

Also, Finland is more or less secure nation, we have VERY good ties to allmost all nations on the world, stay quiet and stay low and dont step on others toes goes long way. If we would join NATO we would lose our "Un-allied" status and would be put right besides USA in the "Evill westerns" slot.

Also, all military actions since WWII... there isint any. Finland hasent warred anywhere (well peace keeping) after the World wars. With NATO we would get sucked up in international conflicts.

(Do note that i dont know too much of politics... i might have very ignorant opinions.)

Why are Finns hesitant to join NATO?
According to wikipedia, Finland has a high gun ownership rate and a rather large army for its population size. I assume this was for protection against the USSR back in the day? Is this also why Finns don't want to join NATO (you are already armed and defended)?
Finns who live in towns have very low gun ownership rate but people who live in countryside often have many guns. Mostly because they hunt. We have rather large army because it's mandatory for all men.

I quess older ones might say that we don't need NATO to protect us, Finland was quite alone in WWII. One big reason is that military non-alignment has been an important issue for Finland for decades. And of course one big reason is that many Finns don't want any military cooperation with an organisation led by Americans.

The army really isn't that big. And anywho, it's a conscription army, so it's probably not a very tough match for any professional one. As for NATO... I think people are still holding our old - and shaky - cold war status as 'non-aligned country' very dear. (It's obvious we are far from non-aligned anymore, but what does reality have to do with people's views...)

(Do note that i dont know too much of politics... i might have very ignorant opinions.)
I believe that the vast majority agrees with your opinions :)
I don't think that veryone opposes NATO because of Americans actions but quite many do. For some the second point is the most important one (non-alignment)

I don't care what the reason is, I just don't want Finland to join NATO

Hmm, SVT Aktuellt just had a report on the election. They didn't even bother giving any soundbites to anyone other than Halonen. She said she went for a swim this morning in the Baltic Sea. Shame they didn't get that on camera, I assume it wasn't right outside her office by the Swedish embassy / Salutorget in Helsinki!


As for NATO, I think the reason most Swedes are against are:
a) We don't do war or fighting. We think that if we are neutral we will never have any problems from anyone (that's with the understanding that we can still sell a few guns on the side or do military exercises with Russia like right now..hmm).
b) The American factor. We don't like the USA's military and foreign policies, so why associate ourselves with it.
c) The usual reason: It's not Swedish enough, so it must be sh*t. ;)

Personally I am against NATO because of the first 2 (well I don't think we should be selling so many arms, and I think it's embarrasing that we are doing exercises with Russians... hope we don't give them some tips they can use to break human rights in Chechyna). But, I do think it's wise for us to stay out. We have no threats to our nation and if anything, joining NATO could pretty much change that. We would be associated with the USA, and thus maybe a target for terrorism by extension due to the American so-called war on terror.

The army really isn't that big. And anywho, it's a conscription army, so it's probably not a very tough match for any professional one. As for NATO... I think people are still holding our old - and shaky - cold war status as 'non-aligned country' very dear. (It's obvious we are far from non-aligned anymore, but what does reality have to do with people's views...)
So true. :D

But also, the points made by proNATO people are sometimes almost hysterical. Like the guy who kept saying that Russians would never offend Finland's airspace if we were NATO members. Well, he had hard time explaining to me why Russian planes continuosly fly on Estonian's airspace...

40% of the votes counted

Halonen has 49,6% of the votes.

results
http://www.yle.fi/vaalit/tulospalvelu/kierros1/flash.html

But your post was better, so correction to my post

Advanced votes counted (39,9% of all votes)

She must be sitting on the edge of her seat. Could be a second round! Do the social democrat voters tend to vote more in the advance voting than other voters? Or do they hold out until the day itself?

She must be sitting on the edge of her seat. Could be a second round! Do the social democrat voters tend to vote more in the advance voting than other voters? Or do they hold out until the day itself?
The Center party voters tend to vote more in advance (them being predominantly from the countryside). Presidential elections is, however, a different organism altogether. Very hard to predict.

She must be sitting on the edge of her seat. Could be a second round! Do the social democrat voters tend to vote more in the advance voting than other voters? Or do they hold out until the day itself?
They tend to vote on the actual day but that might not be the case this time round. there were more undecided voters than ever just before the election. At this point, Vanhanen gets more and more votes, but Niinistö will eventually get more votes.

Vanhanen gets more votes now because it's the small district votes coming in first (and they are rural districts).

They tend to vote on the actual day but that might not be the case this time round. there were more undecided voters than ever just before the election. At this point, Vanhanen gets more and more votes, but Niinistö will eventually get more votes.
More votes than Vanhanen of course. Not more than Halonen

The YLE estimate says Halonen ends up with 47.5% and Niinistö comes second. They have been pretty accurate in the past. 2nd round! Goody!

I'm afraid that your prediction will prove to be more accurate than mine - damned be this optimism of mine!
Well it looks like that even your prediction was too small. 74%. (not certain yet)

Yeah. Oddly high percentage. Well, 74% would still be the lowest ever (in the direct elections), but anyway.

Henrik Lax has slightly under 10% in Borgå, suggests that around two thirds of the Finland-Swedes there didn't vote SFP, probably they voted for Halonen (don't think many would vote Vanhanen or Niinistö).

That's random information isn't it! But then Borgoa (Latin) is named after Borgå.

Henrik Lax has slightly under 10% in Borgå, suggests that around two thirds of the Finland-Swedes there didn't vote SFP, probably they voted for Halonen (don't think many would vote Vanhanen or Niinistö).

That's random information isn't it! But then Borgoa (Latin) is named after Borgå.
Results, Porvoo:
Halonen 48,2
Niinistö 23,3
Vanhanen 10,2
Lax 9,6
Hautala 4,4

I'd venture guessing Niinistö got hefty percentage of those votes too. The swedish speaking population has traditionally been more oriented towards right.

Henrik Lax has slightly under 10% in Borgå, suggests that around two thirds of the Finland-Swedes there didn't vote SFP, probably they voted for Halonen (don't think many would vote Vanhanen or Niinistö).

That's random information isn't it! But then Borgoa (Latin) is named after Borgå.
Or perhaps they voted another right wing candidate who actually had a chance.

I'd venture guessing Niinistö got hefty percentage of those votes too. The swedish speaking population has traditionally been more oriented towards right.
Yes, but I remember my Finnish family members telling me they would never vote for the Coalition party or Centre party because as parties they weren't properly bilingual in their eyes.

Oh. Well, I wouldn't call SDP a paragon of bilingualism either. :D

I'd venture guessing Niinistö got hefty percentage of those votes too. The swedish speaking population has traditionally been more oriented towards right.

As a swedish speaking finn i resent that. That is gross generalisation, rasism etc. etc.
On the other hand everyone in my extended family voted for Sauli, so never mind :p .

"Pappa betalar!"

Oh. Well, I wouldn't call SDP a paragon of bilingualism either. :D
Hmm, but judging on my newly devised highly technical method of determining this (how much of the website is in Swedish), they do quite well! :D

SDP's site? My guess is that every party in Finland offers a Swedish version of their website - with the possible exception of the Perussuomalainen puolue (the Xenophobic pricks' party in English).

hmmm....only 12,1 of "ålanders" voted for Lax and even 69,4% for halonen. Your theory works on those islands

Åland always has to be SOO special. Their voting behaviour almost always differs from that of the 'coastal-swedes'.

Åland always has to be SOO special. Their voting behaviour almost always differs from that of the 'coastal-swedes'.
He he... they can be as special as they like, as long as it means they can still be a thorn in the side of Systembolaget and Alko... TAX FREE! ;)

He he... they can be as special as they like, as long as it means they can still be a thorn in the side of Systembolaget and Alko... TAX FREE! ;)


AGREE!!
lets all go get drunk to celebrate whoever wins!! :fluffle:

That would be a very finnish thing to do. Lets all be patriots for once!

Getting drunk is Finnish, celebrating is not.
For a true finn, there is nothing to celebrate, only a thousand years of war, plague, famine and misery to try to drown in alcohol.

No, no, no! We must enforce the stereotype - that's why I propose we DON'T get drunk tonight, in order to celebrate the victory of democracy.
(But that's just this night; tomorrow we'll get drunk again - as always)

Results after 100% of votes counted:

Tarja Halonen (Social democrat) 46,3%
Sauli Niinistö (Coaltion party) 24,1%

Matti Vanhanen (Centre) 18,6%
Timo Soini (True Finlanders) 3,4%
Heidi Hautala (Green) 3,5%
Bjarne Kallis (Christian democrat) 2%
Henrik Lax (Swedish peoples' party) 1,6%
Arto Lahti 0,4%

So, the next door neighbours get a second round of voting!

And what a second round! A right wing party candidate against a social democrat. Somehow I don't think we get to see words like 'pinko-commie' or 'fascist' being used though. Pity. Some countries have so much more entertaining politics.
*sigh*

And what a second round! A right wing party candidate against a social democrat. Somehow I don't think we get to see words like 'pinko-commie' or 'fascist' being used though. Pity. Some countries have so much more entertaining politics.
*sigh*
Today's DN thinks it's going to be fascinating. Not sure what that says about our politics... Hmm.