NationStates Jolt Archive

I'm basically addressing this to religions who believe in God and an afterlife (i.e. [NOT LIMITED TO] Christianity, but not Buddhism).

I lead as good a life as I can, help others when I can, and am generally "good" or "one with the light side" (as opposed to dark side). I ocassionally do some minor evils, but I strive to be as good as possible.
I do not believe in God.

I'm actually wrong, and your religion is the correct one. (correction: whatever your beliefs of the supernatural and this matter are, are correct)

Do I go to heaven?

So... you're basically addressing it to Christians.

Depends which sect (or even which person) you ask.

Okay, well, let's assume that, for whatever reason, you end up dealing with the afterlife of my religion, despite not being involved in my religion. That's a pretty big assumption, but let's make it, all the same.

So, you find yourself dead and standing before the Judges in the Hall of Two Truths. Yinepu is operating the scales, and Djehuty is recording the results as your heart is weighed against the feather of Ma'at. You have lived a reasonably good and balanced life - a life of ma'at. Since you have to be Pretty Evil(tm) to have your heart (the seat of your ka) fed to the ever-hungry Ammit and snuffed out of existence, and you speak sincerely before the Judges, your heart balances against the feather.

I would say yes, you would go to the West as akhu to dwell with Wesir in the Duat.

That's what I think, anyway. Ask other Kemetics and YMMV.

No, you go to Purgatory to wait it out until the Judgement day (because not only do you not believe in God, but also you've committed sin), and then if you're found to be good enough you'll go to Heaven.

Unless you've committed a mortal sin, in which case it's hellfire for you.

I'm basically addressing this to religions who believe in God (i.e. Christianity, but not Buddhism).

I lead as good a life as I can, help others when I can, and am generally "good" or "one with the light side" (as opposed to dark side). I ocassionally do some minor evils, but I strive to be as good as possible.
I do not believe in God.

I'm actually wrong, and your religion is the correct one. (correction: whatever your beliefs of the supernatural and this matter are, are correct)

Do I go to heaven?

yup.

Simonist']No, you go to Purgatory to wait it out until the Judgement day (because not only do you not believe in God, but also you've committed sin), and then if you're found to be good enough you'll go to Heaven.

Unless you've committed a mortal sin, in which case it's hellfire for you.

is there such place as Purgartory

Christianity, generally allows people who lived as good Christians (ie they may not believe the God, but they acted as an ideal Christian would) to go to Heaven. Evil Christians, conversely, would go to Hell. Hell can be any number of things, yet most theologians nowadays see it as entrapment in the evil and misery you caused...a form of utter isolation. Satan is supposedly lonely. He tries to make friends. Yet distance from God is ultimate loneliness. This is one view anyway.

As for Purgatory, not all Catholics believe in it.

is there such place as Purgartory
In Roman Catholic beliefs, yes. And considering the outline was set up in the OP that my beliefs were correct, hypothetically, I can only assume that this validates Purgatory for the purpose of all non-believers and light sinners.

But more importantly, if you meant do people actually believe in Purgatory....yes, it's like the waiting room of the afterlife, so to speak.

I'm basically addressing this to religions who believe in God (i.e. Christianity, but not Buddhism).

I lead as good a life as I can, help others when I can, and am generally "good" or "one with the light side" (as opposed to dark side). I ocassionally do some minor evils, but I strive to be as good as possible.
I do not believe in God.

I'm actually wrong, and your religion is the correct one. (correction: whatever your beliefs of the supernatural and this matter are, are correct)

Do I go to heaven?
Calling it the supernatural doesn't win you any brownie points, Mister.

But yes.

Nope

To get into heavan on your own, you have to be ABSOLUTELY PERFECT.
no white lies, no fantasies about sex, not even one 'oh my god'.

One screwup is punished as much as a lifetime of sin.

So, the only way to get into heaven is to have someone take your place. they have to qualify for citizenship in heaven, aka be perfect. Since all humans screw up at least once, we can't look to Man for a willing sacrifice. Angls are out, too, as they lack free will

so God is the only one that can take our place.

Jesus spent three days in hell, completely cut of from God the Father.
His sacrifice paid the debt owed by every person to Eternity.

However, to preserve free will, anyone has the option of paying off the debt themselves.

Simonist']In Roman Catholic beliefs, yes. And considering the outline was set up in the OP that my beliefs were correct, hypothetically, I can only assume that this validates Purgatory for the purpose of all non-believers and light sinners.

But more importantly, if you meant do people actually believe in Purgatory....yes, it's like the waiting room of the afterlife, so to speak.

There cannot be a waiting room for eternity, as it is outside the realm of time. besides, if they did not allow Jesus to pay their debt for them, it's their problem.

No, you don't. The key is that God is a being of infinite goodness, which must inherintly translate to infinite justice. His standards are so high that even the tiniest wrong makes one too evil to get to heaven alone, because He must judge sin. All of it. It's when Jesus, a man so perfect that He did not sin even once, (He never told a lie, stole, lusted, and anything else God's law says is wrong even once, otherwise He would be condemned just like the rest of us) died on the cross and took the judgement for your sins and mine, that we could recieve the gift of eternal life through believing in Him. He could take up our sins for us because he was also God in addition to being a man, without being God, He could not of withstood His own infinite justice, since God's judgement of sin requires infinite justice, and the only way to survive that is with infinite power, which only God has. Furthermore, God doesn't force this gift on people, you've got to accept it on your own. Eternal salvation through Jesus is a free gift, but you have to actually take it first through belief in Him. See John 6:40, Luke 13:3, Acts 17:30-31, John 10:9, Acts 4:10-12, all of John 3, (It's that good) and remember simply believing that Christ is the savior isn't the same as believing in Christ, as James 2:19 demonstrates. If you'd like to know more, read the rest of the Bible :)

Nope

To get into heavan on your own, you have to be ABSOLUTELY PERFECT.
no white lies, no fantasies about sex, not even one 'oh my god'.

One screwup is punished as much as a lifetime of sin.

So, the only way to get into heaven is to have someone take your place. they have to qualify for citizenship in heaven, aka be perfect. Since all humans screw up at least once, we can't look to Man for a willing sacrifice. Angls are out, too, as they lack free will

so God is the only one that can take our place.

Jesus spent three days in hell, completely cut of from God the Father.
His sacrifice paid the debt owed by every person to Eternity.

However, to preserve free will, anyone has the option of paying off the debt themselves.Oh come now, I say "Omigod" all the time and I don't care about it at all.

Heck, it's free advertisement for God! ;)

I'm basically addressing this to religions who believe in God (i.e. Christianity, but not Buddhism).

I lead as good a life as I can, help others when I can, and am generally "good" or "one with the light side" (as opposed to dark side). I ocassionally do some minor evils, but I strive to be as good as possible.
I do not believe in God.

I'm actually wrong, and your religion is the correct one. (correction: whatever your beliefs of the supernatural and this matter are, are correct)

Do I go to heaven?

I have a question for you. If you don't believe in God (and so presumably not in heaven, either), why are you worried about it? If you ARE worried about it, then perhaps you really believe in God after all, or at least have some nagging doubts.

So, let me get this straight....
Nope

To get into heavan on your own, you have to be ABSOLUTELY PERFECT.
no white lies, no fantasies about sex, not even one 'oh my god'.

One screwup is punished as much as a lifetime of sin.
Okay. Okay....your answer is no. Right? Right-o. Wait....

So, the only way to get into heaven is to have someone take your place. they have to qualify for citizenship in heaven, aka be perfect. Since all humans screw up at least once, we can't look to Man for a willing sacrifice. Angls are out, too, as they lack free will

so God is the only one that can take our place.
Well.....so we're fucked. No? Oh, what's that?

Jesus spent three days in hell, completely cut of from God the Father.
His sacrifice paid the debt owed by every person to Eternity.
Ooooh, so your answer is yes? No wait, I thought it said....yeah, you said nope. But this would insinuate a "yup". I'm so confused.
However, to preserve free will, anyone has the option of paying off the debt themselves.
Okay, I think I got it. What you really meant is.....maybe?

There cannot be a waiting room for eternity, as it is outside the realm of time. besides, if they did not allow Jesus to pay their debt for them, it's their problem.
Man, you can't take a figurative fucking joke, can you.

Besides, if it's their problem, why should you give a crap? Quit getting so confrontational to people who you apparently have no obligation to, dude. And while you're at it, chill the hell out.

Simonist']Man, you can't take a figurative fucking joke, can you.

Besides, if it's their problem, why should you give a crap? Quit getting so confrontational to people who you apparently have no obligation to, dude. And while you're at it, chill the hell out.
His post wasn't that confrontational :p

His post wasn't that confrontational :p

I didn't think so, either.

His post wasn't that confrontational :p
I wasn't meaning in terms of me. I mean that he, from the outset, is pretty gung-ho about not having a position at all in terms of whether or not this guy will go to heaven, but he's so disturbingly ADAMANT in his determination to not have a definite position. It's this that bothers me: while he's teetering on the tip of "maybe", he's washing his hands of any chance to help those people, or educate them in whatever he finds to be true (even though I can't tell from his "stance" what he believes), which was made especially clear by this:
if they did not allow Jesus to pay their debt for them, it's their problem.
Now I don't know the kind of people you guys usually run across, but generally when I see people preferring to take a passive stance on whether or not people go to heaven, they don't put it in that kind of terms. That's an automatic assumption of a mistake on the part of the third party, which is, in my mind, too confrontational a way to approach it. It's practically a promise of an argument from the other side.

Simonist']
Now I don't know the kind of people you guys usually run across, but generally when I see people preferring to take a passive stance on whether or not people go to heaven, they don't put it in that kind of terms. That's an automatic assumption of a mistake on the part of the third party, which is, in my mind, too confrontational a way to approach it. It's practically a promise of an argument from the other side.
So basically you are saying he is trying to hide his agenda? The effect of that phrase you quoted is basically, "if you don't believe in Jesus, you're going to Hell."

So basically you are saying he is trying to hide his agenda? The effect of that phrase you quoted is basically, "if you don't believe in Jesus, you're going to Hell."
It's not a matter of agenda. If a person can't afford the time to make a real argument one way or the other, I don't feel they're in a position to judge so harshly those who either believe otherwise or choose not to believe at all.

Simonist']It's not a matter of agenda. If a person can't afford the time to make a real argument one way or the other, I don't feel they're in a position to judge so harshly those who either believe otherwise or choose not to believe at all.
He is sort of making his position crystal clear though...he is just not really advocating why he believes its valid.

He is sort of making his position crystal clear though...he is just not really advocating why he believes its valid.
He isn't making his full position clear, he's making that aspect clear. His first post is nothing but a muddled mess of various opinions. Furthermore, in making it "crystal clear", he's also removing the situation that was laid out in the first post, that whomever answers, answers to the justification of their religion. Instead, he's taken it further and fairly invalidated some posters' opinions simply by stating that lack of belief in Jesus is a ticket to Hell.

I have a question for you. If you don't believe in God (and so presumably not in heaven, either), why are you worried about it? If you ARE worried about it, then perhaps you really believe in God after all, or at least have some nagging doubts.

Or maybe he just wants to know other people's opinions.

I'm basically addressing this to religions who believe in God (i.e. Christianity, but not Buddhism).

...

Do I go to heaven?
That's not a question for those who believe in God. That's a question for those who believe in Heaven. Despite what the pretty obvious vibe from the Evangelicals is suggesting, the two are not codependent.

I'm basically addressing this to religions who believe in God (i.e. Christianity, but not Buddhism).

I lead as good a life as I can, help others when I can, and am generally "good" or "one with the light side" (as opposed to dark side). I ocassionally do some minor evils, but I strive to be as good as possible.
I do not believe in God.

I'm actually wrong, and your religion is the correct one. (correction: whatever your beliefs of the supernatural and this matter are, are correct)

Do I go to heaven?

You go to "your heaven", as you have chosen by your actions in life.

If you have acted "mainly" in accord with your beliefs, then you get "heaven"
as you would "expect" it to be.

If you DON'T act "mainly" in accord with your beliefs, then you are tormented
by this knowledge, and recieve "hell".

BUT,.. your percieved time in either is extremely short,.. or extremely long.

It's extremely long if you go to "heaven", as complete satisfaction
(heavenliness) fades into utter oblivion very slowly (as percieved by the
dying) because they are very similar "sensations".

It's extremely short if you go to "hell", as torment is so different from utter
oblivion that when oblivion comes it is percieved as a sharp and sudden break.

So the answer to your question is, yes,.. you go to "heaven".

..but there is very little time where there is a "you" to experience it before
oblivion consumes you in either case. "Heaven" just seems to last
considerably longer.


-Iakeo

I've done wrong but I know I walk in the light. I follow no religion but my own beliefs and I know no heaven or hell awaits me. All I'm concerned about is making this earth into a paradise.

That's not a question for those who believe in God. That's a question for those who believe in Heaven. Despite what the pretty obvious vibe from the Evangelicals is suggesting, the two are not codependent.

Indeed. I assumed "heaven" in the original post to mean "the afterlife that isn't bad", rather than specifically the Christian idea of "heaven".

Well, let's alter the perspective and see how it goes from there:

There are two math students. One despises his math teacher and refuses to use the methods explained to solve math problems. For the most part, he does his homework and most of his solutions are correct, if not exactly compact and elegant.

The other adores his math teacher and praises him constantly to other students. He rarely does any homework and the problems he does try to solve are often way off.

Who is going to get a better grade on the final exam?

Looks like I made it to thread a bit late...So my answer is "What Theorb said"

I'm basically addressing this to religions who believe in God (i.e. Christianity, but not Buddhism).

I lead as good a life as I can, help others when I can, and am generally "good" or "one with the light side" (as opposed to dark side). I ocassionally do some minor evils, but I strive to be as good as possible.
I do not believe in God.

I'm actually wrong, and your religion is the correct one. (correction: whatever your beliefs of the supernatural and this matter are, are correct)

Do I go to heaven?

God is supposed to be forgiving, I really don't believe that such a forgiving God would condem nice/kind/good people too hell. Really, so long as a person is trying to be the best person they can, I don't see any reason why they shouldn't go to heaven.

I'm basically addressing this to religions who believe in God (i.e. Christianity, but not Buddhism).

I lead as good a life as I can, help others when I can, and am generally "good" or "one with the light side" (as opposed to dark side). I ocassionally do some minor evils, but I strive to be as good as possible.
I do not believe in God.

I'm actually wrong, and your religion is the correct one. (correction: whatever your beliefs of the supernatural and this matter are, are correct)

Do I go to heaven?

God is supposed to be forgiving, I really don't believe that such a forgiving God would condem nice/kind/good people too hell. Really, so long as a person is trying to be the best person they can, I don't see any reason why they shouldn't go to heaven.

Indeed. I assumed "heaven" in the original post to mean "the afterlife that isn't bad", rather than specifically the Christian idea of "heaven".
Not even afterlife. The idea that a God exists doesn't mean we get some sort of extended lifespan out of it. Why should it?

Not even afterlife. The idea that a God exists doesn't mean we get some sort of extended lifespan out of it. Why should it?

No, you're right. One does not necessarily include the other.

Edit: And even if you believe God and an afterlife both exist, nothing says that have to be connected at all.

God is supposed to be forgiving, I really don't believe that such a forgiving God would condem nice/kind/good people too hell. Really, so long as a person is trying to be the best person they can, I don't see any reason why they shouldn't go to heaven.


God is forgiving, however the only place "forgiveness" comes before "repentance" is in the dictionary. Through their own "niceness/kindness" no one can get to Heaven. However through true repentance, faith in Christ, God can make the worst people fit for Heaven. On the cross Christ took our sin and death to give us His life and holiness.

Just surfed across a page that describes the situation perfectly:

You cannot separate God's love from His justice- the two go hand-in-hand, yet there are many who would claim that God is love (and love is God) and in being so could not do anything unpleasant and would not send anyone to hell.

Without Love, God would be a cold and unbending tyrannt who would punish at the slightest infraction of His perfect standard. Without Justice, God would be no better than us..permissive and too relaxed about sin, not caring too much what we do to others or Him- thusly making Himself less than Holy.

Without a standard, anyone could do absoutely anything they want and get to heaven- cheapening Christs sacrifice...which is the greatest demonstration of love.

I'm actually wrong, and your religion is the correct one. (correction: whatever your beliefs of the supernatural and this matter are, are correct)

Do I go to heaven?

I realise you have mistaken Christianity for the only way to be religious, but I'll give you the Muslim answer anyway:

All but the truly evil go to Paradise.

However, Allah decides all things and it isn't up to anyone on this planet, so anyone who has given you a definite answer is a liar. It's not up to them.

I realise you have mistaken Christianity for the only way to be religious, but I'll give you the Muslim answer anyway:

All but the truly evil go to Paradise.

However, Allah decides all things and it isn't up to anyone on this planet, so anyone who has given you a definite answer is a liar. It's not up to them.
It seems almost anyone who has given a "definite answer" has done so according to the original circumstance: what we believe happens in the situation that our faith is correct. I don't believe most here have set down "This is what definitely happens, no questions asked", it's more a matter of "[faith in question] believes...", whether implicit or explicit.

Valid point, though -- no matter what it is we individually believe, the higher power gets the last word.

I'm basically addressing this to religions who believe in God (i.e. Christianity, but not Buddhism).

I lead as good a life as I can, help others when I can, and am generally "good" or "one with the light side" (as opposed to dark side). I ocassionally do some minor evils, but I strive to be as good as possible.
I do not believe in God.

I'm actually wrong, and your religion is the correct one. (correction: whatever your beliefs of the supernatural and this matter are, are correct)

Do I go to heaven?
According to my specific denomination the answer would be no.

All have sinned
The wages of sin is death
The only way to eternal life is through belief and commitment to Jesus Christ.

According to the Bible, then, no, you won't go to heaven.

All you have to do is ask, though. ;)

I realise you have mistaken Christianity for the only way to be religious, but I'll give you the Muslim answer anyway:

All but the truly evil go to Paradise.

However, Allah decides all things and it isn't up to anyone on this planet, so anyone who has given you a definite answer is a liar. It's not up to them.

Sweet.

So the Hitlers, Pol Pots and Donald Trumps (:p) of the world get dumped in the Bad Place(tm)?

According to the Bible, then, no, you won't go to heaven.

According to the Bible, there is no definitive answer. Man proposes, God disposes. Many have conjectured a definite answer, but they're too fallable to be correct or believed. Even Jesus went to Hell, though nobody saw that coming.

So, no, there is no "according to the Bible" answer.

Now to answer a few questions and replies...

So... you're basically addressing it to Christians.

No, there are plenty of other religions that believe in God and an afterlife. Christianity isn't the only one.

I have a question for you. If you don't believe in God (and so presumably not in heaven, either), why are you worried about it? If you ARE worried about it, then perhaps you really believe in God after all, or at least have some nagging doubts.

Who said I'm worried about it? I just want to see who would condemn me and other good people who don't believe in that particular religion and who wouldn't.

That's not a question for those who believe in God. That's a question for those who believe in Heaven. Despite what the pretty obvious vibe from the Evangelicals is suggesting, the two are not codependent.

Whatever, sorry, I did mean belief in the afterlife as well...

Well, let's alter the perspective and see how it goes from there:

There are two math students. One despises his math teacher and refuses to use the methods explained to solve math problems. For the most part, he does his homework and most of his solutions are correct, if not exactly compact and elegant.

The other adores his math teacher and praises him constantly to other students. He rarely does any homework and the problems he does try to solve are often way off.

Who is going to get a better grade on the final exam?

By Christianity, they'll both get a bad mark.

Doesn't do the work (isn't good) and doesn't praise the teacher (doesn't believe in God), BAD mark.
Doesn't do the work (isn't good) and does praise the teacher (does believe in God), BAD mark
Does the work (is good) and doesn't praise the teacher (doesn't believe in God), BAD mark
Does the work (is good) and does praise the teacher (does believe in God), Good mark

I have troubles with the third one, but you believe what you want to believe...

God is supposed to be forgiving, I really don't believe that such a forgiving God would condem nice/kind/good people too hell. Really, so long as a person is trying to be the best person they can, I don't see any reason why they shouldn't go to heaven.

You missed the point of Christianity. I'll translate the above 2 better.

By Christianity:

If you are an evil person and do not believe in God, you do not go to heaven.
If you are an evil person and believe in God, you do not go to heaven.
If you are a good person and do not believe in God, you do not go to heaven.
If you are a good person and believe in God, you go to heaven.

Like I said, I have problems with the third one, but if they want to worship that kind of God, by all means...

God is forgiving, however the only place "forgiveness" comes before "repentance" is in the dictionary. Through their own "niceness/kindness" no one can get to Heaven. However through true repentance, faith in Christ, God can make the worst people fit for Heaven. On the cross Christ took our sin and death to give us His life and holiness.

So you're telling me I'm supposed to believe a 2000-year-old book that presumably depicts God and describes these Jesus events, otherwise no matter how good I am (since perfection is impossible) I'm screwed.

Nice God you got there. He picks only morons who would believe without a doubt in such an old text to go to heaven.

How do you know that Cinderella isn't true, or any other fairy tale? Or how about Beowulf? Being a thousands of years old story hasn't stopped you from believing the Bible, so why not believe these other books?

If God condemned people who don't believe a 2000-year-old story that may have been altered many times, then I don't much like him and I don't think he's that perfect.

I realise you have mistaken Christianity for the only way to be religious,

Incorrect. Christianity was an example of a religion I wanted, Buddhism was an example of a religion I didn't want (discussed).

By all means, all people who believe in the supernatural and an afterlife should reply and answer my question.

According to the Bible, there is no definitive answer. Man proposes, God disposes. Many have conjectured a definite answer, but they're too fallable to be correct or believed. Even Jesus went to Hell, though nobody saw that coming.

So, no, there is no "according to the Bible" answer.
while it is true that there is no "according to the Bible" answer in the sense that many people interpret the Bible many different ways, and no answer in the sense that we are attempting to answer a question that only God really knows the answer to, which is "will specific person go to heaven?" I believe what he meant was "what I believe, according to how I interpret what I have read" which in effect is how we all would answer.

The generally accepted interpretation for example of John 14:6 among all the protestants that I know is that Jesus is the only way to the Father.

I have a question for you. If you don't believe in God (and so presumably not in heaven, either), why are you worried about it? If you ARE worried about it, then perhaps you really believe in God after all, or at least have some nagging doubts.

If I had to guess, I'd say he was engaging in a form of Socratic questioning...

I've done wrong but I know I walk in the light. I follow no religion but my own beliefs and I know no heaven or hell awaits me. All I'm concerned about is making this earth into a paradise.


But how does your own personal opinion of where your going to go turn that opinion into a reality?

But how does your own personal opinion of where your going to go turn that opinion into a reality?
Well theoretically, if they don't believe in any God and follow their own beliefs, then even if they end up in Hell (which I consider more likely to be the absence of God's presence than all the fire and brimstone and suffering, in cases such as these), then it's really no loss. Of course, if they end up in Heaven, then they get their paradise, though at the expense of realizing that their belief was wrong. It's not exactly a clear-cut win/win or lose/lose.

Simonist']Well theoretically, if they don't believe in any God and follow their own beliefs, then even if they end up in Hell (which I consider more likely to be the absence of God's presence than all the fire and brimstone and suffering, in cases such as these), then it's really no loss. Of course, if they end up in Heaven, then they get their paradise, though at the expense of realizing that their belief was wrong. It's not exactly a clear-cut win/win or lose/lose.

Well Im talking about the "which I consider" part, im asking how can simply believing that it is unlikely for hell to be bad (or exist) actually make your own personal form of hell appear when you die which isn't all bad? Like if I woke up one day and earnestly didn't want to believe in trucks, it wouldn't stop a truck if one ran over me, right?

But how does your own personal opinion of where your going to go turn that opinion into a reality?

It doesn't, which is why every religion is equally an exercise in unproveable, blind faith. There's not a smidgin more evidence or logic for Heaven than the Eternal Bottle of Cleaner Fluid Beneath the Sea, or for God than the Flying Spaghetti Monster. It's all equally pointless.

But how does your own personal opinion of where your going to go turn that opinion into a reality?

It doesn't, which is why every religion is equally an exercise in unproveable, blind faith. There's not a smidgin more evidence or logic for Heaven than the Eternal Bottle of Cleaner Fluid Beneath the Sea, or for God than the Flying Spaghetti Monster. It's all equally pointless.

I'm basically addressing this to religions who believe in God and an afterlife (i.e. [NOT LIMITED TO] Christianity, but not Buddhism).

I lead as good a life as I can, help others when I can, and am generally "good" or "one with the light side" (as opposed to dark side). I ocassionally do some minor evils, but I strive to be as good as possible.
I do not believe in God.

I'm actually wrong, and your religion is the correct one. (correction: whatever your beliefs of the supernatural and this matter are, are correct)

Do I go to heaven?
I would say 'yes' because you are a good person, and it is not your fault you dont believe in God, it is somethign about the church, religious community, etc that turned you away.

Like if I woke up one day and earnestly didn't want to believe in trucks, it wouldn't stop a truck if one ran over me, right?
If it would, I'd pay to see it. I mean, I see your point, but I'm just saying that in this instance, I can understand the other side as well. A little. I think. And my spin on what hell is was really just to make the point that if they're wrong that's not going to bother them much, because they already said they're a good person.

It doesn't, which is why every religion is equally an exercise in unproveable, blind faith. There's not a smidgin more evidence or logic for Heaven than the Eternal Bottle of Cleaner Fluid Beneath the Sea, or for God than the Flying Spaghetti Monster. It's all equally pointless.

But the key is that im not using my own opinion, im using God's :/. Of course then we could get into the whole Bible authenticity debate, but the point im trying to make is that our own opinions won't change what God did or what His opinions are.

Simonist']If it would, I'd pay to see it. I mean, I see your point, but I'm just saying that in this instance, I can understand the other side as well. A little. I think. And my spin on what hell is was really just to make the point that if they're wrong that's not going to bother them much, because they already said they're a good person.

Well then it seems to me if they say their a good person, they ought to be able to pass the test at www.wayofthemaster.com under tools and "are you a good person?" Now that's something i'd pay to see! :D(Without people lying about answers)

Well then it seems to me if they say their a good person, they ought to be able to pass the test at www.wayofthemaster.com under tools and "are you a good person?" Now that's something i'd pay to see! :D(Without people lying about answers)
Oh, I'm taking this shit......sounds like a challenge. I think, based just off of your comments, I may fail.....we'll see.

Edit: nevermind. Yeah, I failed. Damn.....back to confession for me :(

Simonist']Oh, I'm taking this shit......sounds like a challenge. I think, based just off of your comments, I may fail.....we'll see.

It's all a bunch of shit where if you committed one sin in your life you are as evil as Adolf Hitler.

Well, since I don't believe in God, and I can't possibly think of ever being able to believe in God (it just doesn't make sense to me, so it wouldn't be true faith), the only way to heaven is through perfection.

Wait, I've committed a few minor sins in my life. Oh well, might as well go on a killing spree now.

Hope you don't live near me!

NONONONONONONONONONONONONONONOONONONNONONONONONONONONONONONONONOONONONONONNNONONONONONONONONONONONON ONONOONONONNONONONONONONONONONONONONONOONONONONONNNONONONONONONONONONONONONONONOONONONNONONONONONONO NONONONONONONOONONONONONNNONONONONONONONONONONONONONONOONONONNONONONONONONONONONONONONONOONONONONONN NONONONONONONONONONONONONONONOONONONNONONONONONONONONONONONONONOONONONONONNNONONONONONONONONONONONON ONONOONONONNONONONONONONONONONONONONONOONONONONONNNONONONONONONONONONONONONONONOONONONNONONONONONONO NONONONONONONOONONONONONNNONONONONONONONONONONONONONONOONONONNONONONONONONONONONONONONONOONONONONONN NONONONONONONONONONONONONONONOONONONNONONONONONONONONONONONONONOONONONONONNNONONONONONONONONONONONON ONONOONONONNONONONONONONONONONONONONONOONONONONONNNONONONONONONONONONONONONONONOONONONNONONONONONONO NONONONONONONOONONONONONNNONONONONONONONONONONONONONONOONONONNONONONONONONONONONONONONONOONONONONONN 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NONONONONONONONONONONONONONONOONONONNONONONONONONONONONONONONONOONONONONONNNONONONONONONONONONONONON ONONOONONONNONONONONONONONONONONONONONOONONONONONNNONONONONONONONONONONONONONONOONONONNONONONONONONO NONONONONONONOONONONONONNNONONONONONONONONONONONONONONOONONONNONONONONONONONONONONONONONOONONONONONN NONONONONONONONONONONONONONONOONONONNONONONONONONONONONONONONONOONONONONONNNONONONONONONONONONONONON ONONOONONONNONONONONONONONONONONONONONOONONONONONNNONONONONONONONONONONONONONONOONONONNONONONONONONO NONONONONONONOONONONONONNNONONONONONONONONONONONONONONOONONONNONONONONONONONONONONONONONOONONONONONN

I AM WRONG! Only Allah decides who goes to Heaven and who does not, NOT US! So I repeal what I said about you not going to heaven.

Please forgive me Allah -Cries- Astaghfirula!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well then it seems to me if they say their a good person, they ought to be able to pass the test at www.wayofthemaster.com under tools and "are you a good person?" Now that's something i'd pay to see! :D(Without people lying about answers)
Even answering innocent to everything gets the same result. "You're an evil sinner". It's not worth bothering.

Even answering innocent to everything gets the same result. "You're an evil sinner". It's not worth bothering.
I've got a feeling they're trying to prove a point. A poor, stupid point, but y'know....whatever.

I'm basically addressing this to religions who believe in God and an afterlife (i.e. [NOT LIMITED TO] Christianity, but not Buddhism).

I lead as good a life as I can, help others when I can, and am generally "good" or "one with the light side" (as opposed to dark side). I ocassionally do some minor evils, but I strive to be as good as possible.
I do not believe in God.

I'm actually wrong, and your religion is the correct one. (correction: whatever your beliefs of the supernatural and this matter are, are correct)

Do I go to heaven?
Minor evils like what is the question...is murder or lying a minor evil? Adultry?

I need details of examples.

But yes, you don't have enough knowledge of the gospel to blasphemy against it so you won't go to hell (as in Outer Darkness where devil resides).

You will be taught by angelic missionaries in heaven of Jesus and his gospel when you die. When you accept him; you'll probably make Terestial Kingdom: seconds highest kingdom. You seem like a decent guy after all.

But yes, you don't have enough knowledge of the gospel to blasphemy against it so you won't go to hell (as in Outer Darkness where devil resides).
Okay, I'm about to get really snippy about something very particular, but if you're going to keep saying this.....the verb form of "blasphemy" is "blaspheme". Somebody who commits blasphemy, or one who has "blasphemed", is a "blasphemer". Please stop butchering the English language.

Other than that, good point pertaining to the different "levels" of the afterlife, as it were.

I'm basically addressing this to religions who believe in God and an afterlife (i.e. [NOT LIMITED TO] Christianity, but not Buddhism).

I lead as good a life as I can, help others when I can, and am generally "good" or "one with the light side" (as opposed to dark side). I ocassionally do some minor evils, but I strive to be as good as possible.
I do not believe in God.

I'm actually wrong, and your religion is the correct one. (correction: whatever your beliefs of the supernatural and this matter are, are correct)

Do I go to heaven?

Do you believe you want to go to heaven?

Prolificacy']Do you believe you want to go to heaven?

I am uncertain that heaven exists and as such I do not believe in its existence. However, there is the possibility that it does exist. In case it does, I would prefer to go to heaven if the alternative is ceasing existence or eternal torment.

I'm basically addressing this to religions who believe in God and an afterlife (i.e. [NOT LIMITED TO] Christianity, but not Buddhism).
..
Do I go to heaven?

Aspiring Vaishnavist here.

I cannot judge you, but from what you say, your good karma would outweigh your bad, but despite that you will have to go through the consequences of all your actions...maybe heavenly planets..maybe rebirth..can't really say..not my place to say at all.

Originally Posted by [NS:::]Prolificacy
Do you believe you want to go to heaven?

I am uncertain that heaven exists and as such I do not believe in its existence. However, there is the possibility that it does exist. In case it does, I would prefer to go to heaven if the alternative is ceasing existence or eternal torment.

You're "uncertain" whether a thing exists or not, so you choose to NOT
believe in it's existence?

Would you care to rephrase that, perhaps? :)

The first question is, "Why would you care about the 'judgement' of being
thrown into a 'bad' place (heaven and hell go together as sides of a coin)
that you don't believe in?"

Your response that "there's a possibility that it exists" means, YOU BELIEVE
IT EXISTS, because you apparently don't believe that it absolutely doesn't
exist.

A thing either exists or not. You can't believe a thing "might" exist, because
that only means that you're testing a belief you hold at that point.

A belief either exists or not. You can't "provisionally" believe something,
because that (also) means that your merely testing abelief that you hold.

If you are "nervous" that "Heaven and Hell" MIGHT exist, then they EXIST for
you,.. and your belief in them exists,.. regardless of the "probability" of their
actual existence.

-Iakeo

I am uncertain that heaven exists and as such I do not believe in its existence. However, there is the possibility that it does exist. In case it does, I would prefer to go to heaven if the alternative is ceasing existence or eternal torment.
Consider this:

In any afterlife, time has no meaning: this is what produces "eternity".

So it is entirely likely that "the afterlife" occurs within the single last moment of consciousness.

NONONONONONONONONONONONONONONOONONONNONONONONONONONONONONONONONOONONONONONNNONONONONONONONONONONONON ONONOONONONNONONONONONONONONONONONONONOONONONONONNNONONONONONONONONONONONONONONOONONONNONONONONONONO NONONONONONONOONONONONONNNONONONONONONONONONONONONONONOONONONNONONONONONONONONONONONONONOONONONONONN NONONONONONONONONONONONONONONOONONONNONONONONONONONONONONONONONOONONONONONNNONONONONONONONONONONONON ONONOONONONNONONONONONONONONONONONONONOONONONONONNNONONONONONONONONONONONONONONOONONONNONONONONONONO NONONONONONONOONONONONONNNONONONONONONONONONONONONONONOONONONNONONONONONONONONONONONONONOONONONONONN NONONONONONONONONONONONONONONOONONONNONONONONONONONONONONONONONOONONONONONNNONONONONONONONONONONONON ONONOONONONNONONONONONONONONONONONONONOONONONONONNNONONONONONONONONONONONONONONOONONONNONONONONONONO NONONONONONONOONONONONONNNONONONONONONONONONONONONONONOONONONNONONONONONONONONONONONONONOONONONONONN 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I AM WRONG! Only Allah decides who goes to Heaven and who does not, NOT US! So I repeal what I said about you not going to heaven.

Please forgive me Allah -Cries- Astaghfirula!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!