NationStates Jolt Archive

I myself am a Christian, but not a Catholic. And I would like to ask those Catholics on this forum where they get the idea of Purgotary from. The idea to me seems to make what Jesus did on the cross insufficent, when the Bible tells us again and again it was complete. The only passage I know to even vaguely support it is 1 Corinthians 3:11-15 and that seems to be more about judgement at the end of time than about punishment for sins.

I myself am a Christian, but not a Catholic. And I would like to ask those Catholics on this forum where they get the idea of Purgotary from. The idea to me seems to make what Jesus did on the cross insufficent, when the Bible tells us again and again it was complete. The only passage I know to even vaguely support it is 1 Corinthians 3:11-15 and that seems to be more about judgement at the end of time than about punishment for sins.
Yes, clearly you're not a Catholic, but at the same time clearly you're perhaps a little Google-impaired. Did you really want to simply know the history of purgatory (http://www.religioustolerance.org/purgatory1.htm#hist), or were you looking for a debate and entertainment?

Because I'd be glad to go through purgatory with you, so to speak. But I'm not going to dance like a little monkey.

if you are so curious about it, why dont you google it? there are a few different catholic sites that will explain it quite thoroughly.

Didn't the new Pope say that Purgotary isn't true doctrine a while ago? I think there was a thread on it.

Simonist']Yes, clearly you're not a Catholic, but at the same time clearly you're perhaps a little Google-impaired. Did you really want to simply know the history of purgatory (http://www.religioustolerance.org/purgatory1.htm#hist), or were you looking for a debate and entertainment?

Because I'd be glad to go through purgatory with you, so to speak. But I'm not going to dance like a little monkey.

I'd just like to know where it is that Catholics think that the Bible supports Purgatory. I see only one vague refernce, and its contradicted by all the other Biblical refernces to the task being finished


if you are so curious about it, why dont you google it? there are a few different catholic sites that will explain it quite thoroughly.

Because I'd like a discussion. And I cant have a discussion with a website. I can just read it

Didn't the new Pope say that Purgotary isn't true doctrine a while ago? I think there was a thread on it.
Unless he goes about it in an official manner, rather than just saying "Hey, ah...you guys know I don't believe in Purgatory, right?" then it really doesn't matter. And considering that since then he's essentially told many Catholics the world over to "consider Purgatory and Hell" before they act in irresponsible or unholy ways, I'd say it's still doctrine.

I'd just like to know where it is that Catholics think that the Bible supports Purgatory. I see only one vague refernce, and its contradicted by all the other Biblical refernces to the task being finished
I'd suggest you read the information in the link I gave you before you give me reason to give you the verbal smackdown. If you want a discussion, read what the Roman Catholics actually have to say about it, the history of it, et al. Then I'll go ahead and discuss it.

Ball's in your court.

Because I'd like a discussion. And I cant have a discussion with a website. I can just read it

youre asking us to provide you with a strawman to attack. i cant do a better job than newadvent.com (or is it .org?) can do. i cant do better than any official catholic site.

so if you want debate, go find the catholic reference. put it HERE and we can debate it.

Simonist']Unless he goes about it in an official manner, rather than just saying "Hey, ah...you guys know I don't believe in Purgatory, right?" then it really doesn't matter. And considering that since then he's essentially told many Catholics the world over to "consider Purgatory and Hell" before they act in irresponsible or unholy ways, I'd say it's still doctrine.

I apologise, a quick google search shows that it was the belief in Limbo that he spoke out against, not Purgatory.

*leaves thread in shame*

I apologise, a quick google search shows that it was the belief in Limbo that he spoke out against, not Purgatory.

*leaves thread in shame*
Don't worry about it, it's a common mistake. Rumour has it Purgatory is "next on the chopping block", but with all the opposition he's facing with the Limbo crisis, I think the Church fears they might face another schism if they touch Purgatory.

Didn't the new Pope say that Purgotary isn't true doctrine a while ago? I think there was a thread on it. Limbo, actually. Limbo has never been an official doctrine anyway… widely believed, but not actually an article of faith.

while purgatory isnt particularily biblical, it does solve several biblical problems. i dont see the church dropping it without figuring out what to do about those problems that it fixes.

http://wikipedia.org has a rather good disertation on the subject.

http://wikipedia.org has a rather good disertation on the subject.
Wikipedia is a decidedly fallible source that anybody can contribute to, Catholic or not. Therefore, I'd say it's highly more likely to have mistakes than a Catholic source. Thanks for the $.02, but I'd stick to Wikipedia more when it came to....a physics project, or gathering Census information for my neighborhood.

I myself am a Christian, but not a Catholic. And I would like to ask those Catholics on this forum where they get the idea of Purgotary from. The idea to me seems to make what Jesus did on the cross insufficent, when the Bible tells us again and again it was complete. The only passage I know to even vaguely support it is 1 Corinthians 3:11-15 and that seems to be more about judgement at the end of time than about punishment for sins.

As a Protestant who recently converted to Catholicism, I can say that it really wasn't discussed much during my confirmation classes, and I've never heard any mention of it in an actual church service, whether at our church or any we've visited. Belief in purgatory doesn't seem to be essential for being a Catholic anymore. It seems to me that the church is slowing backing away from the doctrine, but I could be wrong about that.

Limbo, actually. Limbo has never been an official doctrine anyway… widely believed, but not actually an article of faith.

The Jewish tradition states that until the end times everyone is stored in Abraham's Bosom(or so it has been explained to me). Does limbo stem from that idea?

As a Protestant who recently converted to Catholicism, I can say that it really wasn't discussed much during my confirmation classes, and I've never heard any mention of it in an actual church service, whether at our church or any we've visited. Belief in purgatory doesn't seem to be essential for being a Catholic anymore. It seems to me that the church is slowing backing away from the doctrine, but I could be wrong about that.
As a Protestant who recenctly converted to Catholicism, there's probably crap tons that you haven't yet encountered. In fact, there are articles of faith and Church doctrines that many lifelong Catholics don't really encounter or ever really think about. If the Church took the time to teach values and morality based off of every single piece of dogma we have, I think there'd be significantly more work each Sunday.....

The Jewish tradition states that until the end times everyone is stored in Abraham's Bosom(or so it has been explained to me). Does limbo stem from that idea?
i think its a necesstiy that springs from the notion of original sin. if we ALL need to be saved, regardless of our committing sins on our own, there needs to be some accomodation for those who are truly sinless (unbaptised children) or those who had no opportunity to be saved. no loving god would send an unbaptised baby to hell.

If I remember correctly from my World Religions class, the Catholic Church originally came up with the idea of Purgatory because the Crusaders didn't like the idea of going to hell for killing the enemies of the church. Still, there's some part of the Bible where God says, basically, that if it is so on Earth than it shall be so in Heaven, so I guess the decree created purgatory. If you want to know what part of the Bible, watch the movie Dogma. It's in the airport scene.

Simonist']As a Protestant who recenctly converted to Catholicism, there's probably crap tons that you haven't yet encountered. In fact, there are articles of faith and Church doctrines that many lifelong Catholics don't really encounter or ever really think about. ....

Well, not really. My wife is a lifelong Catholic and former parochial school teacher who has priests among her family members, plus I have always been interested in theology and have studied most religions and Christian demoninations quite thoroughly (I'm a former Bible College student). I don't think I'm heading towards any surprises. The more I study the various Christian denominations, the more I am struck by their similarities rather than their differences (most of which are rather superficial).

If I remember correctly from my World Religions class, the Catholic Church originally came up with the idea of Purgatory because the Crusaders didn't like the idea of going to hell for killing the enemies of the church. Still, there's some part of the Bible where God says, basically, that if it is so on Earth than it shall be so in Heaven, so I guess the decree created purgatory. If you want to know what part of the Bible, watch the movie Dogma. It's in the airport scene.

If I remember correctly from my World Religions class, the Catholic Church originally came up with the idea of Purgatory because the Crusaders didn't like the idea of going to hell for killing the enemies of the church. Still, there's some part of the Bible where God says, basically, that if it is so on Earth than it shall be so in Heaven, so I guess the decree created purgatory. If you want to know what part of the Bible, watch the movie Dogma. It's in the airport scene.

Well, that's authoritative! LOL!

Actually, I've seen Dogma. Parts of it are pretty close to the truth. Then again, other parts aren't. The problem is, people who are unfamiliar with the Bible don't know the difference.

Well, not really. My wife is a lifelong Catholic and former parochial school teacher who has priests among her family members, plus I have always been interested in theology and have studied most religions and Christian demoninations quite thoroughly (I'm a former Bible College student). I don't think I'm heading towards any surprises. The more I study the various Christian denominations, the more I am struck by their similarities rather than their differences (most of which are rather superficial).
Hrm. Then I'd say that you don't have the background most adult converters do. In fact, coming from a situation of a spouse having priests in the family, as well as being interested in theology, you probably gave it more thought and study than most do.

If you want to know what part of the Bible, watch the movie Dogma. It's in the airport scene.
First, I don't recall that they actually quote scripture in that particular part of the movie, but then it's been quite awhile since I've seen it. Second, please don't give people the incorrect impression that this movie is a reliable source of Catholic info, because it's fraught with misinformation. But that's not a discussion for this thread, so I won't threadjack.

Well, not really. My wife is a lifelong Catholic and former parochial school teacher who has priests among her family members, plus I have always been interested in theology and have studied most religions and Christian demoninations quite thoroughly (I'm a former Bible College student). I don't think I'm heading towards any surprises. The more I study the various Christian denominations, the more I am struck by their similarities rather than their differences (most of which are rather superficial).
I must say I agree...sometimes it surprises me how dumb their differences truly are. The Catholic and Orthodox Churches have miniscule disparities, yet they act as if they are two universes apart...very silly.