NationStates Jolt Archive

Just a random topic that came up in my mind today at work. If someday we have the technology to selectively or totally wipe someone's memories and perhaps replace them with artificial ones, would it be ethical to do so to violent prisoners as a means of completely failsafe rehabilitation?

To death penalty advocates: Would you support this over the death penalty? why/why not?

Could it have medical applications, especially in the field of psychology? (for example, someone may have been raped, and would like to permanently forget the incident.) Would it be justified as a form of treatment?

Should it be available to whomever wants it? (We all have things that we'd like to forget.)

Kudos to whomever figures out what movie originally gave me this idea. (It has a similar process, but not quite the same.)

Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind?

Erm... If the person conented and was fully aware of the consequences it would be ethical I guess. There may be interesting conequences with family relations though, so other factors may have to be considered.
Not so sure about rehab of prisoners, but isn't that what rehab tries to do; mindwipes or no? Hmm...

Some people need to learn to deal with their issues.

Other issues are best forgotten.

Perhaps consented selective memory wipe without any artificial memory planting?

can you place memories WITHOUT erasing old ones? if you can, i'd sign up for it. think about it, all those years you spend in school will be reduced to the time the operation takes. want an education in international political economy? sure, hook me up with some of that! the policies and institutions of the european union? okay, them too. is there a way to make all those memories stick? this has actually been a dream of mine for years, lol.

can you place memories WITHOUT erasing old ones? if you can, i'd sign up for it. think about it, all those years you spend in school will be reduced to the time the operation takes. want an education in international political economy? sure, hook me up with some of that! the policies and institutions of the european union? okay, them too. is there a way to make all those memories stick? this has actually been a dream of mine for years, lol.

Let's assume that the memories implanted are vague at best. Do you remember everything you supposedly learned at school?

As for the movie, I guess 'Total Recall', which was based on a funny short story "We Can Remember It For You Wholesale" by that great sci-fi writer Phillip K Dick.

There was also another movie in recent years about a guy who gets his memory altered for his job. BUt then leaves clues behind to help him find out what he did. But I can't for the life of me remember what it's called or who was in it, so imdb can't help me.

There was also another movie in recent years about a guy who gets his memory altered for his job. BUt then leaves clues behind to help him find out what he did. But I can't for the life of me remember what it's called or who was in it, so imdb can't help me.

Paycheck?

KOTOR had the memory wiping of a murder thing going in it.

If the person wanted their memory erased, sure.

Just a random topic that came up in my mind today at work. If someday we have the technology to selectively or totally wipe someone's memories and perhaps replace them with artificial ones, would it be ethical to do so to violent prisoners as a means of completely failsafe rehabilitation?
Um, I don't see how wiping someone's memory would keep them from committing crimes in the future?


Could it have medical applications, especially in the field of psychology? (for example, someone may have been raped, and would like to permanently forget the incident.) Would it be justified as a form of treatment?
Well, that's actually pretty much the only instance where I would allow it - for someone to forget a singular, traumatic event.
But, of course, there's a host of other issues immediately coming up: who decides what's traumatic enough? Is a messy break-up enough? I don't think so. But someone will, and they'd totally come up with ways to get their hands on the memory wiping stuff and have a flourishing black market in no time.
Also, there's not too many "real" traumatic events where it makes sense, either. Say you lose your wife and one of your kids in a car accident. Well, you could wipe that off your memory, but what would that mean for your everyday life? They're still dead. You'll still be alone with your remaining kid, all your wife's relatives will still be there, etc. So if you're the only one "forgetting" about the accident, you'll just be a nutcase who'll end up in the closed ward.


Should it be available to whomever wants it? (We all have things that we'd like to forget.)
No (see above). Especially since we've seen how Eternal Sunshine turned out - they changed their mind halfway through the procedure, because forgetting the bad memories you have of a person also means forgetting about the person as such.

If the person wanted their memory erased, sure.

but say the person wakes up, without his old memories, and he regrets it because he can't remember why he even wanted them gone in the first place. his life will become a search for the memories he had so willingly destroyed. but then let's say, he does find them again. he finds out why he wanted to forget and becomes unhappy AGAIN, so he opts for the operation again. it could go on and on.

Erasing someones memory-even if they are a convicted criminal, would be the mental equivalent of removing a limb,
eg. cut of their arms so they can't stab people./ remove their memory's so they don't feel the need to stab people.

.... If someday we have the technology to selectively or totally wipe someone's memories and perhaps replace them with artificial ones, would it be ethical to do so to violent prisoners as a means of completely failsafe rehabilitation?


No to scare you put it already exists to some degree. Also reprogramming is only temp, with massive realistic recreation in the fring crackpot zones of hypnotism.

False memories are also to some degree capable as far as psychology and behaviorism.. but you were talking about technology.. mind whiping is definately posible, frying someones brain ain't difficult and short term damages are done with some psychiatric practices still conducted, such as ElectroShockTherapy done to reset the electro part of the electrocehmical balance in some 'mood disorders' psychotropic drugs are widely used to treat 'so called scitzophenics' and other people that don't fit in.

I personally think that people should not be forced to any therapy against their will, it is inately unethical and any doctor should understand you don't treat let alone touch somebody without their permission. Of course in todays world of corrupt nations the justice and national security institutions are getting away with murdrer ... and torture.

I beleive the death penalty should only occur if individual agrees to it both in a pre written declaration and confirmation after any such request to them being killed. Otherwise the individual should be allowed exille or to be released in the perhaps unfreindly population.. and let nature take its course. The justice system as far as I know is BS anyway you can't proove something unless you know.. and with reprogramable memories even that becomes issued thats why ideals are so important.. they insure you never do wrong.. rather then do what might be right. Do good, do not exercise paranoia and do not attack anyone for who they are, but what they are doing to you.


Another name for it may be BINGE DRINKING some take to it to forget brain damage can do that sometimes.


Honestly though things are about.. building understanding not retarding people, we will all find englightenment and understanding given enough time.

Let's assume that the memories implanted are vague at best. Do you remember everything you supposedly learned at school?

not everything, since i don't care to know about many things which we are made to learn. but certainly, i try as much as i can to remember those that i find useful (in my chosen field of study, career, personal interest, etc). also, since i know i can't even remember everything i want to remember, i make sure i collect references where i can be certain i can look them up (like having a growing library of books and saved articles and documents).

the point is knowing enough that you qualify for the next level of studies or career. if they implant those memories in my head, it's not like i'm just going to rely that they will be there forever. i wanted them implanted, which means i'm going to repeatedly be exposed to and use them in the future. it's just the quicker initial plugging of information that's wanted.

KOTOR had the memory wiping of a murder thing going in it.

Wasn't it the whole near-death-force-bond-then-force-wipe-change-bad-guy?


....wow. just realized video games applies to everything!!!!!


GAAAAAAAAAAAAHH!

Catch the Stargate episode last night?

Just a random topic that came up in my mind today at work. If someday we have the technology to selectively or totally wipe someone's memories and perhaps replace them with artificial ones, would it be ethical to do so to violent prisoners as a means of completely failsafe rehabilitation?

To death penalty advocates: Would you support this over the death penalty? why/why not?

Could it have medical applications, especially in the field of psychology? (for example, someone may have been raped, and would like to permanently forget the incident.) Would it be justified as a form of treatment?

Should it be available to whomever wants it? (We all have things that we'd like to forget.)

Kudos to whomever figures out what movie originally gave me this idea. (It has a similar process, but not quite the same.)

Memory Wipe? Sounds like something out Babylon 5 or Star Wars.

Memory Wipe? Sounds like something out Babylon 5 or Star Wars.

It's a very common plot device in sci-fi, alright.

Paycheck?
That's it!!
Thank you. It was starting to bug me.

As for the movie, I guess 'Total Recall', which was based on a funny short story "We Can Remember It For You Wholesale" by that great sci-fi writer Phillip K Dick.

There was also another movie in recent years about a guy who gets his memory altered for his job. BUt then leaves clues behind to help him find out what he did. But I can't for the life of me remember what it's called or who was in it, so imdb can't help me.

Seen both of those, but it wasn't either of them. The movie in question was specifically relating to the rehabilitation, not so much the memory loss itself. The rehabilitation thing was what got me thinking.

Paycheck?

KOTOR had the memory wiping of a murder thing going in it.

Heh, I hadn't made the connection with this even though i've been playing KOTOR 2 lately. :p

Catch the Stargate episode last night?

No. *points to location*

Our TV stations are different. :p

Um, I don't see how wiping someone's memory would keep them from committing crimes in the future?

True, it wouldn't necessarily prevent them from having the free will to do so, but they could be "shaped" into a useful member of society (not commenting on whether I think this is right or wrong). I don't think it's a coincidence that all serial killers (well, I can't think of any exceptions) have messed up childhoods, for example.

Well, that's actually pretty much the only instance where I would allow it - for someone to forget a singular, traumatic event.
But, of course, there's a host of other issues immediately coming up: who decides what's traumatic enough? Is a messy break-up enough? I don't think so. But someone will, and they'd totally come up with ways to get their hands on the memory wiping stuff and have a flourishing black market in no time.
Also, there's not too many "real" traumatic events where it makes sense, either. Say you lose your wife and one of your kids in a car accident. Well, you could wipe that off your memory, but what would that mean for your everyday life? They're still dead. You'll still be alone with your remaining kid, all your wife's relatives will still be there, etc. So if you're the only one "forgetting" about the accident, you'll just be a nutcase who'll end up in the closed ward.

No (see above). Especially since we've seen how Eternal Sunshine turned out - they changed their mind halfway through the procedure, because forgetting the bad memories you have of a person also means forgetting about the person as such.

Good points. Obviously, guidelines would be needed.

Memory Wipe? Sounds like something out Babylon 5 or Star Wars.

Sure, but if you think about it, it's not impossible to do. We can only damage memories through certain treatments (as a previous poster stated). In time, perhaps it will be possible to create them as well.

Sure, it could be ethical. People who have traumatic childhood memories would be good candidates.

If you checked the news yesterday, they are on the verge of having a pill that can diminish the ability to recall traumatic events (if it's given soon enough after the event). I think this is dangerous. Our memories are learning tools and are a part of developing who we are. If we don't remember how we got into a particular situation, we aren't going to be able to avoid that situation in the future.

He does not learn from history (this includes personal history), is condemned to repeat it.

That given, having this available to small children who, have been abused or otherwise traumatized through no fault of their own, would be a good thing.

It's ethical as long as you use KleenexTM Memory Wipes :D

It's ethical as long as you use KleenexTM Memory Wipes :D


harharhar.

If you checked the news yesterday, they are on the verge of having a pill that can diminish the ability to recall traumatic events (if it's given soon enough after the event).

Is it called Rohypnol?

...

Sorry. :p

I would not agree with it, as there are already very good psycological methods for removing or dimming the emotion of an incident, but leaving you with the memory. So you'd know what happened and you can avoid it in the future, but the trauma is gone.

Just a random topic that came up in my mind today at work. If someday we have the technology to selectively or totally wipe someone's memories and perhaps replace them with artificial ones, would it be ethical to do so to violent prisoners as a means of completely failsafe rehabilitation?

To death penalty advocates: Would you support this over the death penalty? why/why not?

Could it have medical applications, especially in the field of psychology? (for example, someone may have been raped, and would like to permanently forget the incident.) Would it be justified as a form of treatment?

Should it be available to whomever wants it? (We all have things that we'd like to forget.)

Kudos to whomever figures out what movie originally gave me this idea. (It has a similar process, but not quite the same.)
No the death penalty is fine.
Someone mind would not get wiped and they would get their revenge.
Total Recall or the Sixth Day unless it was that Jean Claude Van Damme Movie especially Ultimate Warrior??????_That is my reason why i say no.
That very reason.