NationStates Jolt Archive

I want to know what people think about the mormon religen.

I want to know what people think about the mormon religen.

What I think is that it is just like every other religion.

Evil witless bullshit.

slightly more insane than most. requires a person to believe a whole bunch of factually untrue things about history, most of which are just plain silly. we should have finished the job in illinois.

what do u mean?

what do u mean?
You know, generally when people want to get REAL discussion going, they give us some freakin' fodder more so than "What do you think of Mormons". You know what I think of Mormons? I don't. They're people. Now, if you gave me more specific topics, like how they fit into Christianity or what the hell is up with that whole Prophet thing, you'd probably get some real interaction.

what do u mean?


Joseph Smith got killed in Nauvoo Illonis and he founded Mormonism, but the rest of them all mostly made it out to start the Mormon church. Honestly, if people back then had just shown him and his converts how wrong what he was saying was instead of the whole kill the heathen mentality, that would of worked a whole lot better, ever notice how every time in history when people try to put things down with force the people being attacked almost always win out somehow eventually? :/

Now personally, I know Mormonism is, in a word, compleatly wrong. the DNA evidence destroys both the Mormon arguments for Jewish descent of the indians, namely the founder effect and some other thing, (I think it was just random mutation or some such) and this angel named Moroni is never mentioned anywhere before Joseph Smith to my knowladge. Also, if Mormonism was correct, then with God being infinitely just, about every single human gets to go to hell who has lived between about 600 B.C. and whenever Mormonism got started, because no one did any of that stuff in the book of Mormon, (Unless by accident maybe) something which at the very least is historically verifiable beyond almost all dought after the Church started compiling things. Jesus didn't die so that nearly 1600 years worth of humans get to fry no matter what because of what the Mormon church claims are horrible "corruptions" of the Bible, and if it was as corrupted as they say, the "Seek God with all your heart and you will find Him" verse is probably something they might claim is corrupt as well, since the Book of Mormon (Or it might of just been the Mormon church twisting doctrines even more) says that the only thing you can do is pray over the book of Mormon until you feel a "Burning sensation in your stomach", and then it's supposedly God telling you its true. Stress creates the exact same sensation, and i'd think someone who earnestly wants to know who God really is would probably feel a wee bit of apphrehension and stress, so its highly likely they just invented the whole affair as a cheap psycological trick. But thats just my opinion, other people can probably give you the whole story much better.

sorry to ns i am not a forum junky so i dont know the etiquite if thats how you spell it. Mormons believe that there is a modern day prophet chosen by our Lord. I want to know people opions of it. where i live most of us are mormons. i just want to know what the rest of the world thinks.

I want to know what people think about the mormon religen.
#1: The CJC-LDS is one of the largest money making corporate enterprises in the US, yet operates under the cover of "Tax Exempt Religion". (Linky) (http://www.exmormon.org/mormon/mormon403.htm)

#2: Individual Mormons hold wildly divergent ideas about the (as put by a Mormon Elder/Friend of mine) Doctrines vs. the Mythos of good ol'Joe's new-fangled religion. Many accept the themes but not the stories or edicts.

More crazy than some, less obnoxious than others. It's a Religion that costs you a MINIMUM of 10% of your gross... but at least they don't jump up and down on couches on national TV, tell sick people they are making it up, then try to get you to grab electrodes for thousands of dollars a pop. :rolleyes:

#1: The CJC-LDS is one of the largest money making corporate enterprises in the US, yet operates under the cover of "Tax Exempt Religion". (Linky) (http://www.exmormon.org/mormon/mormon403.htm)

#2: Individual Mormons hold wildly divergent ideas about the (as put by a Mormon Elder/Friend of mine) Doctrines vs. the Mythos of good ol'Joe's new-fangled religion. Many accept the themes but not the stories or edicts.

More crazy than some, less obnoxious than others. It's a Religion that costs you a MINIMUM of 10% of your gross... but at least they don't jump up and down on couches on national TV, tell sick people they are making it up, then try to get you to grab electrodes for thousands of dollars a pop. :rolleyes:
Lol. ya it is but none of our bishops and people who work in with the church are paid. it goes to either helping low income famlies bukding churchs so on and so forth

sorry to ns i am not a forum junky so i dont know the etiquite if thats how you spell it. Mormons believe that there is a modern day prophet chosen by our Lord. I want to know people opions of it. where i live most of us are mormons. i just want to know what the rest of the world thinks.
Ok, whatev....this I'll roll with.

No offense to you if you are a Mormon or whatever, but I believe they're not really Christians. In fact, I think they're just freakin' weird to believe what they do. I mean, I'm a Catholic, and I admit that we Catholics and "mainstream" Christians believe some things that make the "sensible" world gape in wonder and horror, but if you can make a Catholic think "....Now that's just ridiculous", your religion may have gone too far. Very little of it makes sense, very little of it is supported by the Bible, and in fact most of the support I hear Mormons use for being Christians is that the word "Christ" is actually in their church's name. This, in my mind, is no more a reason to call yourself a Christian than if you laid between two slices of bread and called yourself a tasty chicken sandwich. Outer appearance doesn't make it a fact.

I'd also take the time to backup just about everything Theorb said, but I'm pretty sure s/he's a big kid and the statement is pretty damn good as a stand-alone, so.....*applauds*

I usually go through my day without ever once thinking about the mormon religion. You've screwed this day up for me though.

What I think is that it is just like every other religion.

+

Evil witless bullshit.

=
My position :D

I usually go through my day without ever once thinking about the mormon religion. You've screwed this day up for me though.
well thats ur fault.
i dont take offense i just am curios because i believe yet i question some stuff.

i am not sure who would win if the mormons were pitted against the scientologists, but hopefully they would be able to set aside their diifferences to create the world's richest lunatic cult of apocalyptic psycho-babble. i am already carrying a silver dollar everywhere i go so that if the mothership shows up unexpectedly (ie before december 23 2012) i can pay my fare.

well thats ur fault.
i dont take offense i just am curios because i believe yet i question some stuff.
Is capitalizing letters and using proper spelling against the Mormon religion?

Is capitalizing letters and using proper spelling against the Mormon religion?
Very funny. No its not. See. I can spell to but most the time i dont try. People know what i am saying.

Very funny. No its not. See. I can spell to but most the time i dont try. People know what i am saying.
Congratulations. As a reward, have a picture.

http://tinypic.com/k4tqvq.jpg

Very funny. No its not. See. I can spell to but most the time i dont try. People know what i am saying.

Chill mate...chill.....

I didnt mean to come off like a bitch. though i did. That pic was freaking funny. i loved it.

I didnt mean to come off like a bitch. though i did. That pic was freaking funny. i loved it.
I aim to please, though often I miss.

;)

Lol. ya it is but none of our bishops and people who work in with the church are paid. it goes to either helping low income famlies bukding churchs so on and so forth
Actually, a lot of it is going to build shopping malls, buy commercial farms, large tracts of land, etc. Go read the data at the link I provided.

I grew up in Mormon Country. I personally don't think a set of doctrines that include eventually getting to be God & Mrs God of your own Earth while Mrs God pumps out Spirit Babies for all eternity makes for a particularly forward-thinking religion. :rolleyes:

MORMONISM'S STRANGE DOCTRINES

(Note: These doctrines are documented from Mormon writers, not anti-mormon writers.)


The true gospel was lost from the earth. Mormonism is its restoration, Mormon Doctrine, by Bruce R. McConkie, p. 635. They teach there was an apostasy and the true church ceased to exist on earth.
We need prophets today, the same as in the Old Testament, Mormon Doctrine, p. 606.
The book of Mormon is more correct than the Bible, History of the Church, 4:461.
There is no salvation outside the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, Mormon Doctrine, p. 670.
There are many gods, Mormon Doctrine, p. 163.
There is a mother god, Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 443.
God used to be a man on another planet, Mormon Doctrine, p. 321.
After you become a good Mormon, you have the potential of becoming a god, Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pages 345-347, 354.
God the Father had a Father (Orson Pratt in The Seer, page 132; One of the purposes of the Seer was "to elucidate" Mormon Doctrine, The Seer, page 1, 1854.
God the Father has a body of flesh and bones, Doctrine and Covenants, 130:22.
God is in the form of a man, Joseph Smith, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, page 3.
God is married to his goddess wife and has spirit babies, Mormon Doctrine p. 516.
We were first begotten as spirit babies in heaven and then born naturally on earth, Journal of Discourse, Vol. 4, p. 218.
The first spirit to be born in heaven was Jesus, Mormon Doctrine, page 129.
The Devil was born as a spirit after Jesus "in the morning of pre-existence," Mormon Doctrine, page 192.
Jesus and Satan are spirit brothers, Mormon Doctrine, p. 163.
A plan of salvation was needed for the people of earth so Jesus offered a plan to the father and Satan offered a plan to the father but Jesus' plan was accepted. In effect the Devil wanted to be the Savior of all Mankind and to "deny men their agency and to dethrone god." Mormon Doctrine, page 193; Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, page 8.
God had sexual relations with Mary to make the body of Jesus, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 4, p. 218, 1857.
Jesus' sacrifice was not able to cleanse us from all our sins, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 3, p. 247, 1856.
Good works are necessary for salvation, Articles of Faith, p. 92.
There is no salvation without accepting Joseph Smith as a prophet of God, Doctrines of Salvation, Vol. 1, p. 188.
Baptism for the dead, Doctrines of Salvation, Vol. II, p. 141. This is a practice of baptizing each other in place of non-Mormons who are now dead. Their belief is that in the afterlife, the "newly baptized" person will be able to enter into a higher level of Mormon heaven.
There are three levels of heaven: telestial, terrestrial, and celestial, Mormon Doctrine, p. 348.

Now, there are many freaky Doctrines out there, but come on. :rolleyes:

(These doctrines are what my friend would call "the Mythos")

Congratulations. As a reward, have a picture.

{IMG}http://tinypic.com/k4tqvq.jpg{/IMG}
That pic is anything but tiny. Could you Please, please, please reduce it so we don't have to scroll to find the "reply" button? :headbang:

Very funny. No its not. See. I can spell to but most the time i dont try. People know what i am saying.

1. When you want to say "it is" as in "No, it is not" (also, please notice the comma), then the homophone /its/ is written: it's. The apostrophe allows the formation of a contraction.

2. Proper spelling is a sign of respect for your audience. Improper spelling indicates that one cannot be bothered to make an effort. It's simply rude.

3. What's the deal with the aprons worn in Temple?

4. Whatever happened to the band "Utah Saints"?

MORMONISM'S STRANGE DOCTRINES

(Note: These doctrines are documented from Mormon writers, not anti-mormon writers.)


The true gospel was lost from the earth. Mormonism is its restoration, Mormon Doctrine, by Bruce R. McConkie, p. 635. They teach there was an apostasy and the true church ceased to exist on earth.
We need prophets today, the same as in the Old Testament, Mormon Doctrine, p. 606.
The book of Mormon is more correct than the Bible, History of the Church, 4:461.
There is no salvation outside the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, Mormon Doctrine, p. 670.
There are many gods, Mormon Doctrine, p. 163.
There is a mother god, Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 443.
God used to be a man on another planet, Mormon Doctrine, p. 321.
After you become a good Mormon, you have the potential of becoming a god, Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pages 345-347, 354.
God the Father had a Father (Orson Pratt in The Seer, page 132; One of the purposes of the Seer was "to elucidate" Mormon Doctrine, The Seer, page 1, 1854.
God the Father has a body of flesh and bones, Doctrine and Covenants, 130:22.
God is in the form of a man, Joseph Smith, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, page 3.
God is married to his goddess wife and has spirit babies, Mormon Doctrine p. 516.
We were first begotten as spirit babies in heaven and then born naturally on earth, Journal of Discourse, Vol. 4, p. 218.
The first spirit to be born in heaven was Jesus, Mormon Doctrine, page 129.
The Devil was born as a spirit after Jesus "in the morning of pre-existence," Mormon Doctrine, page 192.
Jesus and Satan are spirit brothers, Mormon Doctrine, p. 163.
A plan of salvation was needed for the people of earth so Jesus offered a plan to the father and Satan offered a plan to the father but Jesus' plan was accepted. In effect the Devil wanted to be the Savior of all Mankind and to "deny men their agency and to dethrone god." Mormon Doctrine, page 193; Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, page 8.
God had sexual relations with Mary to make the body of Jesus, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 4, p. 218, 1857.
Jesus' sacrifice was not able to cleanse us from all our sins, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 3, p. 247, 1856.
Good works are necessary for salvation, Articles of Faith, p. 92.
There is no salvation without accepting Joseph Smith as a prophet of God, Doctrines of Salvation, Vol. 1, p. 188.
Baptism for the dead, Doctrines of Salvation, Vol. II, p. 141. This is a practice of baptizing each other in place of non-Mormons who are now dead. Their belief is that in the afterlife, the "newly baptized" person will be able to enter into a higher level of Mormon heaven.
There are three levels of heaven: telestial, terrestrial, and celestial, Mormon Doctrine, p. 348.

Now, there are many freaky Doctrines out there, but come on. :rolleyes:

(These doctrines are what my friend would call "the Mythos")

The sad part is many of those are invalidated by the book of mormon, I know for sure both the Bible and the book of mormon both agree that God is the only God, (I done seen quotes! :D) that God was not a God of flesh and bone, (Not totally certain on that one but I think that's right) Joseph Smith can't therefore be God either way, and here we run into problems with the current Mormon church....big ones.

The sad part is many of those are invalidated by the book of mormon, I know for sure both the Bible and the book of mormon both agree that God is the only God, (I done seen quotes! :D) that God was not a God of flesh and bone, (Not totally certain on that one but I think that's right) Joseph Smith can't therefore be God either way, and here we run into problems with the current Mormon church....big ones.
You might be misreading this quote:

God is in the form of a man, Joseph Smith, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, page 3.

I didn't re-edit the grammar from the original, but using the other lines for style it should read:

God is in the form of a man; Joseph Smith, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, page 3.

as 'ol-Joe wrote the Journal of Discourses.

The plurality of gods in the cellestial kingdom is understood, even in the BoM, from the LDS translation of Genesis where "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god." ("a", as in one of many)

There may in fact be "only" one god for (this) Earth, but there are many Earths and if you are a good Mormon, married in the Temple, etc., you have the chance of getting to be the God of your own Earth.

I have a BoM, but my copy of http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/BOM/ is much more lucid.

In fact, here are a few changes in the BoM between the 1830 "original" and Today's revelation...

1 Nephi
1830: Behold, the virgin whom thou seest is the mother of God.
Now: Behold, the virgin whom thou seest is the mother of the Son God. 11:18

1830: Behold, the Lamb of God, yea, even the Eternal Father!
Now: Behold, the Lamb of God, yea, even the Son of the Eternal Father! 11:21

1830: yea, the everlasting God was judged of the world
Now: yea, the Son of the everlasting God was judged of the world 11:32

1830: and Jesus Christ, which is the Lamb of God
Now: and the Messiah, which is the Lamb of God 12:18
(This was changed to avoid contradicting 2 Nephi 10:3, which first reveals to Nephi the name of Christ.)

1830: ...the Lamb of God is the Eternal Father...
Now: ...the Lamb of God is the son of the Eternal Father... 13:40

1830: ...and are come forth out of the waters of Judah, which swear by the name of the Lord...
Now: ...are come forth out of the waters of Judah, or out of the waters of baptism, who swear by the name of the Lord...20:1

2 Nephi
1830: Wo me!
Now: Wo is unto me! 6:5
The omitted italicized word "is" was later corrected.

First appearance of the word "Christ" in the modern BoM. "Christ" appeared earlier (1 Nephi 12:18) in the 1 830 edition, but was changed to "Messiah" to avoid contradicting this verse. 10:3

1830: seraphims
Now: seraphim
The 1830 edition copied the KJV error in the plural of seraph. 16:2, 6

1830: Here I; send me.
Now: Here I am; send me. 16:8
The omitted italicized word "am" was later corrected.

1830: ...they shall be a white and delightsome people...
Now: ...they shall be a pure and delightsome people.... 30:6
"White" was changed to "delightsome" to try to soften the obvious racism of this prophecy.

Mosiah
1830:"...that king Benjamin had a gift from God..."
Now: "...that king Mosiah had a gift from God..." 21:28
Since King Benjamin was dead at the time, this change was needed to avoid the obvious error.

Alma
1830: ... the Son of the only begotten of the Father ...
Now: ... the only begotten of the Father ... 5:48

1830: cherubims (as in the King James Version)
Now: cherubim 12:21 (Cheribims is the incorrect plural of cherub.)

Wunnerful tool the SAB/BoM...

I'm writing an essay about how faced paced, synthetic media-driven life fucks people up so right about now the mormans sound pretty smart in the long run

A conversation between the author of this web site and a mormon http://www.christian-thinktank.com/decide2.html#musmon

1. Have we located any of the cities in the BOM ("Book of Mormon")? He answers "No".
2. Have we found any BOM names in New World inscriptions? He answers "No".
3. Have we found any Hebrew inscriptions in America? "No"
4. Well, have we found any Egyptian inscriptions in America? "No".
5. How about anything even resembling Egyptian? "Not really"
6. Did we find any ancient copies of the BOM? "Not so far".
7. Have anthropologists found any ancient Native American cultures who held Jewish or Christian beliefs? "No, but I am still optimistic".
8. Has ANY mention of previously unknown BOM persons, places, or nations been found ANYWHERE? "Not that I know of..."
9. Do we have any reason to believe that Native Americans are really of Semitic stock? "No."

I'm writing an essay about how faced paced, synthetic media-driven life fucks people up so right about now the mormans sound pretty smart in the long run

You're thinking Amish. Mormons may have weird doctrines, but they don't have a more simple lifestyle than most other hicks, besides the underwear.

I don't like talking about religion at length, because people almost always end up sounding like pretentious assholes. However, I thought I'd mention that I went to ask some elders about Mormonism once, and they all started arguing with each other about just about everything. One said they were polytheistic, and then the other ones started panicking and trying to explain what they thought the other one meant, and then the first one started attacking their explanations, and then they all started barking out broken sentences.

Don't let this sound like a judgement call. I undoubtedly know far less about Mormonism than Mormons do. That was just my experience.

I want to know what people think about the mormon religen.

Another goofy cult.

But no different than any other "church" who doesn't believe in the utterly
rational God and universe that I do.

But,.. they seem to do more good than ill, so I let them have their fun.

(For a REALLY wacky cult, Check this (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=462999) out.)


-Iakeo

i am not sure who would win if the mormons were pitted against the scientologists, but hopefully they would be able to set aside their diifferences to create the world's richest lunatic cult of apocalyptic psycho-babble. i am already carrying a silver dollar everywhere i go so that if the mothership shows up unexpectedly (ie before december 23 2012) i can pay my fare.
mormons :sniper: scientologists
:mp5:

mormons do not allow violence technically, they lose by nature

Funnier origins than even Scientology, but less amusing results. The Mormons need their own Tom Cruise.

Another goofy cult.
I beg to differ. Mormonisim long ago ceased to be a Cult and entered the realm of "Mainstream Religion".

A Cult is simply a religion without a viable voter base - somthing the Mormons have with Utah alone.

As for the "goofy" part, well, it simply takes the goofy bits of JudeoChristianity and add a few more quirks... plus a really good choir in a knock-off Disney Castle, holy underwear and boinking Mrs God.

i dunno about "funnier" origins but similar. Joseph smith claimed to have found 4 gold tablets......while no one was around. and no one was allowed to see them, and he had to translate them while reading them out of a top hat. then the guy who recorded it went home and told his wife. she took the recording and told him to have him translate it again. if he was telling the truth the words should line up exactly. Well Smith said in response to this that God was angry at him for reading from that book and said that he had to read from a different tablet. And if anyone disagreed with him they were stupid and ignorant.

Scientiology has similar foundings. Whats his name saw corruption in religion and decided to exploit it. Made his own religion and then said anyone who disagreed with him was allowed to be tricked sued misled or destroyed

I found an interesting read on Mormonism here. (http://www.exmormon.org/whylft125.htm)

Like some other religions, their members occasionally harass me in public. Other than that, I don't really care.

sorry to ns i am not a forum junky so i dont know the etiquite if thats how you spell it. Mormons believe that there is a modern day prophet chosen by our Lord. I want to know people opions of it. where i live most of us are mormons. i just want to know what the rest of the world thinks.

Having escaped from a community that was predominately mormon, I understand your confusion. The LDS Church is very insular and they tend to be high concentrations of mormons in Utah, Idaho, etc. From within these communities, it is difficult to learn about other communities -- let alone what the rest of the world thinks of mormons.

I'm afraid you'll find a fair degree of indifference and distate.

Many see Mormons as just another flavor of Christianity with a few extra knobs and propellers. Many non-Christians therefore reject the LDS Church for the same reasons that they reject Christianity.

Many Christians believe that Mormons are not Christians. There is much in LDS theology that is considered heresy to Christian sects. The history of LDS villification of the Roman Catholic Church is a related issue as is the baptism of the dead (such as Holocaust victims).

Others object to the Churches long history of racism that has only recently been officially abandoned and still lives on in practice in many communities.

I am an athiest. I think the LDS Church is a particularly laughable form of Christianity. In other words, I think its theology is weak and its history is weaker. I also object to racism and sexism in the LDS Church. Nonetheless, some of my closest friends are Mormon and I respect them and their beliefs.

If you want more of my specific thoughts, you are going to have to progress the discussion further.

I think the LDS Church is a particularly laughable form of Christianity. In other words, I think its theology is weak and its history is weaker.

ah, understatement.

i really just don't get mormonism. the whole thing relies on a historical scenario which just isn't anything even remotely close to true. shit, it's not even vaguely plausible.

I'm a non-Mormon living in Utah, so perhaps I can add some unbiased perspective.

Whether you agree with their beliefs or not, I don't think that's the point. Generally, I find that people around here are friendly, albeit a bit sheltered. As with any religion, there are different people that take Mormonism to different extremes. Some take it very seriously, others treat it more like a heritage, similar to some ethnic Jews. I've noticed that people who denounce the LDS church seem to feel a bit alienated from the community, almost as if they've been branded with a different skin color or sexual orientation. As for my own place among Mormons, usually no one is too curious about my personal religious beliefs or interested in converting me. I find they're pretty respectful on the whole, though I can see how non-Mormons can sometimes feel uncomfortable when engulfed in such a predominating culture.

It's hard to generalize, but I think it's best for everyone to assume that Mormons arepretty much like everyone else.

I actually don't think very much about Mormonism... I don't know anything about it...

As far as I know, I have only met one Mormon in my entire life. That said, he is a cool guy. No weirder than most people. He's open-minded. I'm Catholic, so we often have discussions about interpretations of the bible or religious figures. Judging all Mormons based on the only one i know, they are cool people, just like everyone else in the world, except that they have a different Church they go to on Sundays. Big whoop.

I think Mormonism is the second most stupid religion on the planet, falling behind Scientology, in its rediculousness.

Joseph Smith was a liar.
He wasnt a prophet, he was a liar.
Anyone who does any reading about him can easily see that by the time he had a decent following for his cult, that it was too late to reveal the truth of his lies, and his closest friends, were willing to lie for him as well.
This explains why so few people were allowed to see the "mysterious golden tablets".

The idea of abstaining from things like alchohol and cigarettes is one thing, but they actually tell you you must eliminate caffeine as well, to enter the higher levels of Heaven.

The "Sacred Garments" thing is silly.

The idea that the highest level of Heaven is where you become a god yourself, and rule an Earth of your own, is probably Heresy.

Remember the South Park episode that made so much fun of them?
It was pretty mean, but every word they said was true.

The practice of baptism by proxy is an evil one, and insulting to every other religion, even other Christian ones.
They have no right to be so obnoxious as baptising famous Jewish, and other religions holy figures.
Thats just fucking rude.

Ultimately, I consider it a religion founded on assinine bullshit, backed up with gullible people who were looking for god, anywhere they could find it.
Sadly, Smith was charming enough to have those people buy into his bullshit, and when these folks told others, his name eventually garnered a few followers.
Unfortunatly, Brigham Young, was one of those followers.
Mormonism needed money to go anywhere, and thats where they got it.
Blame Young, as well.

What's the differnce between Mormanism, Catholisism, Christianity, Islam? Is there anything that honestly divides them?

Faith in fairy tales and self oppression are common to all of them.

we should have finished the job in illinois.

Why wait for Illinois? You had a full-blown Extermination Order in Missouri to work with and you let us get away.

Simonist']I believe they're not really Christians. In fact [...] most of the support I hear Mormons use for being Christians is that the word "Christ" is actually in their church's name.

So how do you define 'Christian'? Because I'd say 'Believe in Jesus Christ as the Messiah' is a fairly reasonable definition. Unfortunately, the one I keep running up against is 'Believe in the Trinity', which is, I'd say, a bit silly, seeing as Trinitarianism wasn't doctrine among the Christian Masses until, what, 300? 600 AD?

(I'll just cover the bolded and/or italicised ones in the next bit, on the assumption that they were emphasised by the poster - it saves time)


There are many gods, Mormon Doctrine, p. 163.
Well, yes. But only one applies to this particular subset of dimensions. Within this universe, there is one god. By the way, if this is from the book Mormon Doctrine, it's not actually a very good source. Moving on.
There is a mother god, Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 443.
Yep. And?
God used to be a man on another planet, Mormon Doctrine, p. 321.
You really don't like that, I guess? 'On another planet in another universe' is how I'd put it, but yes.
After you become a good Mormon, you have the potential of becoming a god, Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pages 345-347, 354.
Encouraging, isn't it?
God is married to his goddess wife and has spirit babies, Mormon Doctrine p. 516.
We were first begotten as spirit babies in heaven and then born naturally on earth, Journal of Discourse, Vol. 4, p. 218.
Yep, sounds about right. So? All that's saying is 'souls exist before we come to Earth'.
Now, there are many freaky Doctrines out there, but come on.
Well, I don't see anything really wrong with it, but that's my opinion. You can keep your own.

I know for sure both the Bible and the book of mormon both agree that [...] that God was not a God of flesh and bone, (Not totally certain on that one but I think that's right)

Really? So all those places where God comes down to Earth and talks to people and they see various bits of him are, what, hallucinations? Some form of dust-formed entity made especially for the occasion?

I think you'll find that, as with most things, both the Bible and the BoM can be interpreted in many, many ways. That's the point of Prophets, to provide the correct interpretation.

In fact, here are a few changes in the BoM between the 1830 "original" and Today's revelation...

While a couple of the points you mention could be causes for concern, a lot of them are just typos. Considering the book was translated by one man and then written down by another, neither of them being any form of literary genius (that I'm aware), this sort of thing can be expected. Translating by the power of God is all very well, but he's a picky sort, is God - the connection's not always perfect, and errors can creep in.

Plus, of course, it is a translation of a translation (original author -> Mormon -> Joseph Smith), and relies on both those translations being accurate and all three interpreting what they learnt correctly. Same as anything, you know?

The Mormons need their own Tom Cruise.

Oh, please, no! We don't want him! Keep him away!

I beg to differ. Mormonisim long ago ceased to be a Cult and entered the realm of "Mainstream Religion".

Fourth largest religion in the United States, according to Wikipedia (yeah, I know it's not necessarily accuracte). Population of over 12 million, which works out as one in every 500 people worldwide.

then the guy who recorded it went home and told his wife. she took the recording and told him to have him translate it again. if he was telling the truth the words should line up exactly. Well Smith said in response to this that God was angry at him for reading from that book and said that he had to read from a different tablet. And if anyone disagreed with him they were stupid and ignorant.

This sounds like a slightly mangled version of the story that Joseph succumed to pressure and let someone (I forget who) take a copy of the Book of Lehi home with them. Unfortunately, it was then stolen, and God said that Joseph shouldn't translate it again, because the thieves would publish incorrect versions and use them to claim that Joseph was making it up. Fortunately, the BoL (which, to clarify, was part of the larger BoM, just as Genesis is part of the Bible) was entirely redundant, God being omniscient and all. This doesn't stop us getting all weepy over the fact that we don't have it, but eh.

Joseph Smith was a liar.
He wasnt a prophet, he was a liar.
Anyone who does any reading about him can easily see that by the time he had a decent following for his cult, that it was too late to reveal the truth of his lies, and his closest friends, were willing to lie for him as well.

Justification for this? I could replace 'Joseph Smith' with 'Muhammed' and make the same argument about Islam... or, for that matter, with 'Moses' and Judaism. And if I change 'prophet' for 'messiah', I can use 'Jesus' and 'Christianity'. In short, your argument isn't an argument.

The idea of abstaining from things like alchohol and cigarettes is one thing, but they actually tell you you must eliminate caffeine as well, to enter the higher levels of Heaven.

Yes. And? Have you read the Old Testament recently? I'm thinking of Leviticus through Deuteronomy, specifically. We have an awful lot less food rules than God gave back then, and caffeine is addictive (which I think has been stated as the point behind that rule).

The idea that the highest level of Heaven is where you become a god yourself, and rule an Earth of your own, is probably Heresy.

And the idea that a guy named Jesus was the Messiah is definitely heresy... to Jews. The idea that there's one god is heresy, too, somewhere. Everything is heresy if you ask the right people.

The practice of baptism by proxy is an evil one, and insulting to every other religion, even other Christian ones.
They have no right to be so obnoxious as baptising famous Jewish, and other religions holy figures.

How is it 'evil' to want to save everyone? I mean, sure, we could leave them all to not attain the highest reward, but some of them deserve it. Anyway, we only open the door - they have to accept the baptism for it to take effect. If, after dying, they still believe what they always believed (that is, if we haven't convinced them otherwise), they have the choice to just ignore the offer.

Ultimately, I consider it a religion founded on assinine bullshit, backed up with gullible people who were looking for god, anywhere they could find it.

That's your opinion, and I'm glad you stated it as such.

This is not intended to be a comprehensive answer to all of everyone's questions, but just a quick (ha!) reply to anything I thought needed explaining or whatever. G'bye now.

I want to know what people think about the mormon religen.
Just a bunch of completely fucked up retards :sniper:

I think it's slightly absurd, but then I think that of most religions. I do think it's hilarious when Christians talk about the absurdities of Mormonism, though. As if Christianity was any more logical. The whole point of religion is that it is about faith: accepting as true what is not logically proven. In that regard, scientology is as likely as mormonism, as christianity.

I think it's slightly absurd, but then I think that of most religions. I do think it's hilarious when Christians talk about the absurdities of Mormonism, though. As if Christianity was any more logical. The whole point of religion is that it is about faith: accepting as true what is not logically proven. In that regard, scientology is as likely as mormonism, as christianity.

Why wait for Illinois? You had a full-blown Extermination Order in Missouri to work with and you let us get away.

Ha, ha. I notice you skipped many of the harder questions, but still made it look like you had mounted a comprehensive defense. Let's see how you did with the questions you did answer.

So how do you define 'Christian'? Because I'd say 'Believe in Jesus Christ as the Messiah' is a fairly reasonable definition. Unfortunately, the one I keep running up against is 'Believe in the Trinity', which is, I'd say, a bit silly, seeing as Trinitarianism wasn't doctrine among the Christian Masses until, what, 300? 600 AD?

(I'll just cover the bolded and/or italicised ones in the next bit, on the assumption that they were emphasised by the poster - it saves time)

Of course, belief that Jesus was the only messiah tends to be the norm. You tried to pull a fast one there.

Similarly, the belief that there is only one God.

The beliefs that God is omnipotent, omniscient, and good.

These are some things that Mormons trip over.

Well, yes. But only one applies to this particular subset of dimensions. Within this universe, there is one god. By the way, if this is from the book Mormon Doctrine, it's not actually a very good source. Moving on.


See. Right there. You believe there is more than one god.

Not only is monotheism pretty basic to Christianity, but multiple gods can't all be omnipotent.

Mormon Doctrine is still sold and used by the Church as a basic book. Why do you say it isn't a good source?

You really don't like that, I guess? 'On another planet in another universe' is how I'd put it, but yes.

God was once mortal. Not consistent with basic Christian doctrine.

Encouraging, isn't it?

All men (not women) can become equal to God. Again, bit of a stumbling block for a Christian.

Yep, sounds about right. So? All that's saying is 'souls exist before we come to Earth'.

You totally miss the sexism.


I think you'll find that, as with most things, both the Bible and the BoM can be interpreted in many, many ways. That's the point of Prophets, to provide the correct interpretation.

Even Prophets that have had lobotomies, right?

They are all equal to Jesus, who was just another Prophet.

While a couple of the points you mention could be causes for concern, a lot of them are just typos. Considering the book was translated by one man and then written down by another, neither of them being any form of literary genius (that I'm aware), this sort of thing can be expected. Translating by the power of God is all very well, but he's a picky sort, is God - the connection's not always perfect, and errors can creep in.

Plus, of course, it is a translation of a translation (original author -> Mormon -> Joseph Smith), and relies on both those translations being accurate and all three interpreting what they learnt correctly. Same as anything, you know?

Excellent job of explaining why the BoM cannot be taken literally.

This sounds like a slightly mangled version of the story that Joseph succumed to pressure and let someone (I forget who) take a copy of the Book of Lehi home with them. Unfortunately, it was then stolen, and God said that Joseph shouldn't translate it again, because the thieves would publish incorrect versions and use them to claim that Joseph was making it up. Fortunately, the BoL (which, to clarify, was part of the larger BoM, just as Genesis is part of the Bible) was entirely redundant, God being omniscient and all. This doesn't stop us getting all weepy over the fact that we don't have it, but eh.

I can't believe you buy that story. Joseph let part of the BoM be stolen? And he couldn't recreate it -- not because he might not be able to remember what he made up the first time -- but because God didn't want "incorrect versions" of that Book floating around. (Doesn't that contradict what you just told us above about Joseph not being particularly literate and the BoM being full of errors.)



Justification for this? I could replace 'Joseph Smith' with 'Muhammed' and make the same argument about Islam... or, for that matter, with 'Moses' and Judaism. And if I change 'prophet' for 'messiah', I can use 'Jesus' and 'Christianity'. In short, your argument isn't an argument.

Your right. It is pretty damn silly to worship another human being as a God or a "prophet."


Yes. And? Have you read the Old Testament recently? I'm thinking of Leviticus through Deuteronomy, specifically. We have an awful lot less food rules than God gave back then, and caffeine is addictive (which I think has been stated as the point behind that rule).

At least the Old Testament was clear about the rules. Most mormons, yourself included, can't explain why their is a supposed rule against caffeine. Many don't believe there is such a rule.


And the idea that a guy named Jesus was the Messiah is definitely heresy... to Jews. The idea that there's one god is heresy, too, somewhere. Everything is heresy if you ask the right people.

Cute. But you can't believe in things that are heresy to a Jew and call yourself a Jew. Nor can you believe in heresy and still call yourself Christian.


How is it 'evil' to want to save everyone? I mean, sure, we could leave them all to not attain the highest reward, but some of them deserve it. Anyway, we only open the door - they have to accept the baptism for it to take effect. If, after dying, they still believe what they always believed (that is, if we haven't convinced them otherwise), they have the choice to just ignore the offer.

1. If it is the right thing to do, why does the Church keep promising Holocaust survivors that it won't be done to them any more?

2. No matter what I say or do to "save" you is OK, because wanting to save you is right? (And, even if I have to torture, you still have the choice to accept or ignore).

This is not intended to be a comprehensive answer to all of everyone's questions, but just a quick (ha!) reply to anything I thought needed explaining or whatever. G'bye now.

As I said, you dodged many of the hard questions, so this obviously wasn't a comprehensive answer to everyone's questions.

I'll say it, I like Mormons. The Mormons I've met, anyway, and I've met quite a few from the local branch and elsewhere through one of my friends who converted in 2004.

They seem to be a fairly friendly, tolerant, generous bunch. They believe some pretty unusual stuff for a break-away Christian sect, but I don't care what they believe so long as they're good people and don't go around consistently making arses of themselves. Even in religious discussions, I've found Mormons to be open-minded and decidedly non-preachy.

The only problem is that because I'm "known" to the Church, the missionaries end up dropping over pretty frequently.

Ha, ha. I notice you skipped many of the harder questions, but still made it look like you had mounted a comprehensive defense. Let's see how you did with the questions you did answer.

I was doing other things at the same time, which is why. Like I said at the end, it wasn't meant to be a complete demolition of everyone's arguments.

Of course, belief that Jesus was the only messiah tends to be the norm. You tried to pull a fast one there.

We have more than one Messiah? Since when?

Similarly, the belief that there is only one God.

The beliefs that God is omnipotent, omniscient, and good.

These are some things that Mormons trip over.

See. Right there. You believe there is more than one god.

Not only is monotheism pretty basic to Christianity, but multiple gods can't all be omnipotent.

O-kay. If I understand it correctly, your objection is summed up in that last sentence. So. This world is, indeed, monotheistic, under the rule of a single god. Within this world, that god is everything you could want - omnipotent, omniscient, etc etc. It is like, to take an analogy, being at a University and telling someone 'there are three Organic Chemistry lecturers'. That doesn't mean that only three org. chem. lecturers exist anywhere - it's understood that within the frame of reference, that is, the University, there are three of them. Similarly, we say there is one god, and that he has all these attributes. For the world we're dealing with, that is true.

Mormon Doctrine is still sold and used by the Church as a basic book. Why do you say it isn't a good source?

Because it's wrong on several points, and oversimplifies many others.

God was once mortal. Not consistent with basic Christian doctrine.

Back to frames of reference again. In the time that this universe/set of dimensions has existed, God is unchanging. Nowhere does the Bible attempt to deal with the concept of God's existence before time began (and that's a simplification too, I'm afraid. The language can't cope)

All men (not women) can become equal to God. Again, bit of a stumbling block for a Christian.

I find it encouraging, myself.

You totally miss the sexism.

As I said, I'm not attempting to answer everything.

Even Prophets that have had lobotomies, right?

They are all equal to Jesus, who was just another Prophet.

I'm afraid I have no idea what you're talking about here.

Excellent job of explaining why the BoM cannot be taken literally.

Because incorrect use of plurals is obviously a complete reworking of doctrine. Yes. Except not. These people were working by the power of God, but they were still mortal. 'To err is human', I believe the saying goes.

I can't believe you buy that story. Joseph let part of the BoM be stolen? And he couldn't recreate it -- not because he might not be able to remember what he made up the first time -- but because God didn't want "incorrect versions" of that Book floating around. (Doesn't that contradict what you just told us above about Joseph not being particularly literate and the BoM being full of errors.)

He disobeyed God at the urging of whoever it was (I should look that up), and the translation was stolen. That's the sort of thing that happens when you disobey God. And no, it doesn't contradict what I said, because there's a difference between mistaking 'cherubims' and 'cherubim' and rewriting passages to say that God is (for example) a giant green rabbit. The first is a typo, the second would be an obvious change.

NOTE: The fear was not that the thieves would write about giant green rabbits. The fear was that they would write things that were similar to the true wording, but different enough to leave no doubt that they weren't merely different translations.


Your right. It is pretty damn silly to worship another human being as a God or a "prophet."

Some people would say that it is. However, from a Christian perspective, prophets are perfectly real - Moses? Isaiah? Samuel? The list goes on. Worshipping someone who is presently mortal as a god would be ridiculous (assuming Jesus doesn't count?), which is why we don't.

At least the Old Testament was clear about the rules. Most mormons, yourself included, can't explain why their is a supposed rule against caffeine. Many don't believe there is such a rule.

Yes, it's clear to the point of obsessiveness. However, it doesn't, despite your implication, explain things beyond 'God says so'. It merely states: Do this. Do not do that.

So, not explaining why we're not allowed tea and coffee - which, as it happens, I did, it's addictive - isn't too different from the OT. As to whether the rule exists:

9 And again, hot drinks are not for the body or belly

Later Prophets have clarified that to mean tea and coffee, and again to say that the reason is that they contain caffeine.

Cute. But you can't believe in things that are heresy to a Jew and call yourself a Jew. Nor can you believe in heresy and still call yourself Christian.

True. However, we believe that 'Christian' means the Church that Christ set up, which was then corrupted as time went by. The opinions of Men who don't have contact with God as to what constitutes heresy aren't particularly important.

Yes, I'm aware of how pretentious that sounds. I can't think of a better way to say it.

1. If it is the right thing to do, why does the Church keep promising Holocaust survivors that it won't be done to them any more?

Because they don't want it to be, I guess. Annoying people is not doctrine.

2. No matter what I say or do to "save" you is OK, because wanting to save you is right? (And, even if I have to torture, you still have the choice to accept or ignore).

What is being done is, in a physical sense, dunking each other briefly in the water. It's not quite the same as torture, you know? And the difference is that no one gets hurt. If you were torturing people on my behalf, even if they were willing participants, of course I'd object - not that you wanted to help me, that I'd find touching, but for hurting people on my behalf. Being dunked isn't anything like the same.

As I said, you dodged many of the hard questions, so this obviously wasn't a comprehensive answer to everyone's questions.

As I said, it wasn't meant to be. It was my thoughts as I read through the thread. And it was a bit more comprehensive than the several unsupported insults by other people (see posts #3 and #48 for the completely unsupported ones, there are more with a bare minimum of support which is itself opinion)

whenever the mormons are mentioned i keep thinking of orgazmo. does that happen to anyone else?

As I said, it wasn't meant to be. It was my thoughts as I read through the thread. And it was a bit more comprehensive than the several unsupported insults by other people (see posts #3 and #48 for the completely unsupported ones, there are more with a bare minimum of support which is itself opinion)

Fair enough. Due to respect for your efforts and not wanting to feed flames of intolerance, I'll just agree to disagree and not argue with you further.

Fair enough. Due to respect for your efforts and not wanting to feed flames of intolerance, I'll just agree to disagree and not argue with you further.

And I'll agree to go away and stop flooding the thread with my over-long posts. I'm about to lose my 'net access for a few days anyway.

And thank you for picking out the holes in my arguments. If I had been trying to respond properly, it'd be useful. And even when I wasn't, it was interesting to respond to.

whenever the mormons are mentioned i keep thinking of orgazmo. does that happen to anyone else?

Now Yer a MAN! A Man, Man, Man!

sorry to ns i am not a forum junky so i dont know the etiquite if thats how you spell it. Mormons believe that there is a modern day prophet chosen by our Lord. I want to know people opions of it. where i live most of us are mormons. i just want to know what the rest of the world thinks.

I am curious about the prophet question. In the evangelical carismatic churches there are prophets but the prophecies they give tend to be small scale stuff for individuals and congregations. A Mormon street evangelist told me they have prophets but I didn't find out more (the conversation turned to giving my address for more info so I legged it). What do these prophets say? Is it personal words like the EC's or are they more like OT Speak-to-the-nation stuff?

I'm not sure anyone read this the last time I posted it, so here it is again

A conversation between the author of this web site and a mormon http://www.christian-thinktank.com/decide2.html#musmon

1. Have we located any of the cities in the BOM ("Book of Mormon")? He answers "No".
2. Have we found any BOM names in New World inscriptions? He answers "No".
3. Have we found any Hebrew inscriptions in America? "No"
4. Well, have we found any Egyptian inscriptions in America? "No".
5. How about anything even resembling Egyptian? "Not really"
6. Did we find any ancient copies of the BOM? "Not so far".
7. Have anthropologists found any ancient Native American cultures who held Jewish or Christian beliefs? "No, but I am still optimistic".
8. Has ANY mention of previously unknown BOM persons, places, or nations been found ANYWHERE? "Not that I know of..."
9. Do we have any reason to believe that Native Americans are really of Semitic stock? "No."

a cult of polygamist necrophiliacs is what springs to mind...

Whatever happened to the band "Utah Saints"?
The last thing I heard by them was a (pretty good) version of Silver Machine on an album of Hawkwind remixes that came out in '96 or '97.

Originally Posted by Iakeonui
Another goofy cult.

I beg to differ. Mormonisim long ago ceased to be a Cult and entered the realm of "Mainstream Religion".

A Cult is simply a religion without a viable voter base - somthing the Mormons have with Utah alone.

As for the "goofy" part, well, it simply takes the goofy bits of JudeoChristianity and add a few more quirks... plus a really good choir in a knock-off Disney Castle, holy underwear and boinking Mrs God.

All "mainstream religions" are cults.

They are cults of personality of one form or another.

*)The Wise Guy (Buddhism, Jesus-teacher oriented Christianity, Moses-ism,
Satanism, Kokopele-ism, Amerind "Coyote"-ism, Hermeticism, Wicca, etc.)
*)The Strong Guy (God-of-Abraham-ism, Maoism, Stalinism, etc.)
*)The Rich Guy [a varient of strong+wise] (Trumpism, MichaelJacksonism,
Catholicism, Jesus-as-LORD-of-a-kingdom (baptist, etc), Mormonism, etc.)

Any aspect of "personality" that is "worshipped" (whoreshipped) as a
personification of human behavior.

By far most cults (mainstream religions) are "Rich Guy" worship, because
people like to hang out with rich AND powerful "personalities".

God isn't about personality. Religion is about belief. Religion can be about
God, but most likely (as a practice) is not.

-Iakeo

Justification for this? I could replace 'Joseph Smith' with 'Muhammed' and make the same argument about Islam... or, for that matter, with 'Moses' and Judaism. And if I change 'prophet' for 'messiah', I can use 'Jesus' and 'Christianity'. In short, your argument isn't an argument.


Joeseph Smith was a liar and a fraud.
The very idea that he was visited by an angel named "Moron-i" is absurd.
The only people that saw the tablets, where close friends, and relatives.
People who would easily lie for Smith, especially when more followers, and thier money started to accumulate.

When asked to reproduce the "sacred texts" he could not.
This alone says he was lying, and had to cover his story.
Surely, if he truly had such texts, re-reading them would be the easiest of tasks.




Yes. And? Have you read the Old Testament recently? I'm thinking of Leviticus through Deuteronomy, specifically. We have an awful lot less food rules than God gave back then, and caffeine is addictive (which I think has been stated as the point behind that rule).

Actually, I have recently read Leviticus.
You shouldnt use Leviticus in any conversation on NS, its a pile of garbage and easily shredded.
These were simply warnings for the times about food preparations.
Things like triginosis killed many folks back then.

As for the rest of Leviticus, dont quote it, unless you truly believe that a woman who is unmarried and gets raped should be scourged within an inch of her life, instead of killed.
Either way, its lame.




And the idea that a guy named Jesus was the Messiah is definitely heresy... to Jews. The idea that there's one god is heresy, too, somewhere. Everything is heresy if you ask the right people.

Unless you claim that the Book of Mormon superceeds the New Testament, then idea that any other gods existing, is blasphemy.
It would be heresy to assume that any Christian becomes a god himself, if you adhere to the bible.
Thus, the highest level of Mormon Heaven is simple heresy, by any Christian standard.



How is it 'evil' to want to save everyone? I mean, sure, we could leave them all to not attain the highest reward, but some of them deserve it. Anyway, we only open the door - they have to accept the baptism for it to take effect. If, after dying, they still believe what they always believed (that is, if we haven't convinced them otherwise), they have the choice to just ignore the offer.

Its a slap in the face of any religion other than yours, thats why.
To baptise people of other faiths, who would have nothing to do with your religion, against the will, or without asking permission id simply fucking rude.'
Its a prime example of arrogance, and the practice thereof is an insult to all other religions.



If your faith works for you, great.'
But you should really take an outside look at the founder of your faith, and see for yourself if it all isnt a bit too condemning.
Smith was clearly a fraud, and a liar, and a fool.
The very idea that the native americans are a lost tribe of Iseal?
Please.

Joeseph Smith was a liar and a fraud.
The very idea that he was visited by an angel named "Moron-i" is absurd.

They're long 'o's. It's not actually read like 'moron'.

The only people that saw the tablets, where close friends, and relatives.
People who would easily lie for Smith, especially when more followers, and thier money started to accumulate.

When asked to reproduce the "sacred texts" he could not.
This alone says he was lying, and had to cover his story.
Surely, if he truly had such texts, re-reading them would be the easiest of tasks.

The easiest of tasks? He couldn't read them by himself. They weren't in English or anything. He translated them by the power of God, and when God withdrew that power, he couldn't do it by himself.

Actually, I have recently read Leviticus.
You shouldnt use Leviticus in any conversation on NS, its a pile of garbage and easily shredded.
These were simply warnings for the times about food preparations.
Things like triginosis killed many folks back then.

As for the rest of Leviticus, dont quote it, unless you truly believe that a woman who is unmarried and gets raped should be scourged within an inch of her life, instead of killed.
Either way, its lame.

I never said I agreed with Leviticus, I was simply pointing out that crazy rules about food are hardly unique to Mormons.

Unless you claim that the Book of Mormon superceeds the New Testament,

It supercedes the corrupted version of the New Testament that we have to work with, yes.

then idea that any other gods existing, is blasphemy.

Jesus got executed for blasphemy, you know. Blaspheming doesn't make you wrong.

It would be heresy to assume that any Christian becomes a god himself, if you adhere to the bible.
Thus, the highest level of Mormon Heaven is simple heresy, by any Christian standard.

Okay, then. I have no real problem with being called a heretic.

Its a slap in the face of any religion other than yours, thats why.
To baptise people of other faiths, who would have nothing to do with your religion, against the will, or without asking permission id simply fucking rude.'
Its a prime example of arrogance, and the practice thereof is an insult to all other religions.

We're not baptising them necessarily, we're offering them the chance to be baptised. Unfortunately, them being dead, we can't hear their answer, so we give them the option by doing it by proxy. They don't have to accept. It's the same as the missionaries offering to get someone baptised - if you call that arrogant and insulting, then fine, I suppose you could take it as such, but if not, I don't see how you can say that the other is.

If your faith works for you, great.'
But you should really take an outside look at the founder of your faith, and see for yourself if it all isnt a bit too condemning.

... I'm sorry, I find this very amusing. Did I mention yet that I was only baptised... let's see... less than four days ago? Until then - or until a couple of months prior to then, if you count listening to the missionaries as your cut-off - I was taking an outside look.

Smith was clearly a fraud, and a liar, and a fool.

If he was a fraud and a liar, he was definitely a fool, seeing as he got imprisoned twice, kicked out of several states, and eventually killed over it. Any reasonable liar would have cut and run a long time before.

The very idea that the native americans are a lost tribe of Iseal?
Please.

Why, it's absurd as saying that the whole of humanity is descended from two people! Or that in the old days, people lived for close to a thousand years! Or... well. The list goes on.

Now look what you've done - you've made me go and reply when I'm going to be offline for a few days.

They're long 'o's. It's not actually read like 'moron'.

So what.
Its still lame.



The easiest of tasks? He couldn't read them by himself. They weren't in English or anything. He translated them by the power of God, and when God withdrew that power, he couldn't do it by himself.

Wrong.
When called to re-read the lost text, he claimed to still have the device used for translation.
He could not, so he changed his story.
He was caught in a lie, and fibbed his way out.






It supercedes the corrupted version of the New Testament that we have to work with, yes.

Funny, the mormons claim it to be an "additional" text of Jesus.



Jesus got executed for blasphemy, you know. Blaspheming doesn't make you wrong.

No, Jesus was executed by the will of his own people, when the decision was left to them, by Pilate.
The reason for his capture and condemnation, was rabble-rousing.




We're not baptising them necessarily, we're offering them the chance to be baptised. Unfortunately, them being dead, we can't hear their answer, so we give them the option by doing it by proxy. They don't have to accept. It's the same as the missionaries offering to get someone baptised - if you call that arrogant and insulting, then fine, I suppose you could take it as such, but if not, I don't see how you can say that the other is.

No..you perform a baptism on a live person, and use the name of the deceased.
This is a baptism, by proxy.
You arent "offering them a choice", you are baptising the dead, into your cult.
A person who especially sacrificed for thier religious beliefs, does not need such treatment, and would probably tell you how bogus this practice is.



... I'm sorry, I find this very amusing. Did I mention yet that I was only baptised... let's see... less than four days ago? Until then - or until a couple of months prior to then, if you count listening to the missionaries as your cut-off - I was taking an outside look.

If you consider listening to missionaries tell you about thier faith, and trying to convert you as an objective look at a religion, you have far many more problems that I can point out.




If he was a fraud and a liar, he was definitely a fool, seeing as he got imprisoned twice, kicked out of several states, and eventually killed over it. Any reasonable liar would have cut and run a long time before.

Bull.
Any liar worth his salt, sticks to his guns, until proven a fraud.
History, and common sense can show this nicely.
What do you suppose would have happened, if Smith had told the truth to his many followers after a few years?
They would have lynched him on the spot.



Why, it's absurd as saying that the whole of humanity is descended from two people! Or that in the old days, people lived for close to a thousand years! Or... well. The list goes on.

Im glad you agree.

I want to know what people think about the mormon religen.
DON'T GET ME STARTED.

well its very interesting what you think.

-snip-

Really? So all those places where God comes down to Earth and talks to people and they see various bits of him are, what, hallucinations? Some form of dust-formed entity made especially for the occasion?

I think you'll find that, as with most things, both the Bible and the BoM can be interpreted in many, many ways. That's the point of Prophets, to provide the correct interpretation.

-more snip-


Fair enough, but what I meant was that He is not of just flesh and bone, otherwise He could die if He was not more than that, but if Prophets provided the correct interpretations, then im afraid there's hundreds of radically different ones....most of which, by the way, compleatly maintain that their interpretation alone is right and no one else may question it and live.

As a jew, it pisses me off some of them did post-mortem conversions of Jews without getting the family's consent. Dispicable, IMHO, although I have been told that the majority of mormons didn't use this practice...although it took them a damn long time to condemn it.