NationStates Jolt Archive

Oh yes, Harper has been all over Martin blaming the recent upswing in violence in Toronto on the government for failing to secure the borders. Of course, he also does it while simultaneously refusing to get involved in handgun control, or to lay the blame on the smugglers on both sides of the border. Or even on the disasterous cutting of social programs under the Conservative PArty in Ontario. Nope, it's all the Federal Liberals fault.

Well, no-one has ever fully secured the border between Canada and the US. It is too big. There is too much traffic across it. We can't keep a few weapons out. They can't keep tons of marijuana out. Which do you think would be easier to smuggle? And there are no gun-sniffing dogs at the border. So blaming the government that a couple of hundred weapns made it across is pretty assinine.


Oh yes, and there is a punchline.

The Conservative candidate for the BC Southern Interior?

He's facing charges. For smuggling. Across the Canada/US border. (http://sympaticomsn.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20051230/derek_zeisman_whistleblower_060111)

And Harper personally signed his nomination.


Now THAT's funny!

And this is precisely why I plan to vote NDP.

They are doing more than just banning guns/implementing control. They're going beyond it to go to the source/root of the problem. Sure, tightening border security is a good short term measure, but those smuggling will find a way around it.

By going into the heart of the conflict, you can nib it in the bud.

Sure, social programs equal more tax dollars being spent, but, personally, it's better to see the surplus preventing crime through means that address the root of the problem rather than a quick fix.

Yep, Harper lives by talking tough on specific wedge issues and ignoring the larger reality.

Crime is a problem? Only look to blame one thing and come up with a solution that is restricted to punishment instead of prevention.

There is a problem with child-care availability? Throw $1200/year/kid at parents and hope their eyes glaze over at the thought of the money and ignore that it does NOTHING to actually help create new day-care spots. I can afford day care already. What I can't do is find a qualified and registered location to send my daughter to that doesn't have a one year (or longer) wait list.

Blame the Liberals for being unable to FORCE the US to back down on softwood lumber, and also claim that the Liberals do nothing except bash the Americans, and then suggest that a trade war is the best way to go....


On almost every issue his answer is to blame the Liberals and offer to throw money at it - usually in a fashion that requires no actual results to be achieved.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20060112

That BC candidate is already dropped.

Nice try that.

Canada City']http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20060112

That BC candidate is already dropped.

Nice try that.


Yes, he got dropped . Once the story grew legs. At first the Conservatives stood behind him.

The other interesting tidbit: The Conservatives admit that they did not background check this candidate. They want to toss corruption charges around? Call themselves the responsible party? Hell, they don't even really know who is running for them! Don't check up on their own.

How responsible is that?

I mean, hell - they expect MArtin to know what everyone in his party is up to. They are campaigning on calling him incompetent on that very issue.

Pot. Kettle. Black.

It's politics, they're *all* hypocritical buttholes, including the Liberals and the sainted (on this board) NDP. I don't know what you're trying to prove here. And frankly, yes, any problem Canada is currently facing can be blamed on the Liberals because they have been in power too long for the fault to be with anyone else. I'm not saying I love the Conservatives (I don't) but as far as the election results go, I'm glad to see that Canada might not turn out to be the one-party state it has been for years.

Yes, he got dropped . Once the story grew legs. At first the Conservatives stood behind him.

The other interesting tidbit: The Conservatives admit that they did not background check this candidate. They want to toss corruption charges around? Call themselves the responsible party? Hell, they don't even really know who is running for them! Don't check up on their own.

How responsible is that?

I mean, hell - they expect MArtin to know what everyone in his party is up to. They are campaigning on calling him incompetent on that very issue.

Pot. Kettle. Black.
Wait wait wait. You don’t expect Martin to know what everyone in his party is up to, but for Harper not to know that one of the Conservative candidates has done something naughty is inexcusable? I think you’ve got your own hypocrisy issues to deal with here.

Wait wait wait. You don’t expect Martin to know what everyone in his party is up to, but for Harper not to know that one of the Conservative candidates has done something naughty is inexcusable? I think you’ve got your own hypocrisy issues to deal with here.


Errr, no. I don't expect Martin to know what everyone is up to all the time. Especially when his job at the time was as Finance Minister, not as Auditor General. I have never made that claim.

It's was the Conservatives making this claim about Martin. It is the Conservative ads that state that he should have known, and that he should be fired for not having known. that not knowing is a clear sign of his incompetence.

And now it is Harper saying that it's not his job to know everything either.

My platform didn't just implode on this issue. I'm not a candidate. I have no platform.

But Harper's just did as he tries to pass the buck for knowing the details of what his party members are all about off on his staffers.

Because he's the one trying to have it both ways.


Is that clearer?

It's politics, they're *all* hypocritical buttholes, including the Liberals and the sainted (on this board) NDP. I don't know what you're trying to prove here. And frankly, yes, any problem Canada is currently facing can be blamed on the Liberals because they have been in power too long for the fault to be with anyone else. I'm not saying I love the Conservatives (I don't) but as far as the election results go, I'm glad to see that Canada might not turn out to be the one-party state it has been for years.


A) I'm not trying to "prove" anything. It's called a debate on the platforms and how accurate the stated positions are.

B) A minority government situation such as we have had is hardly indicative of a One-Party state. Obviously it isn't. It never really was. Chretien benefited from the vote-splitting on the right between PC and Reform. Now the Conservatives are benefiting from vote-splitting between Liberal and NDP (not to mention the Bloqheads).

Personally, I agree that the Liberals needed a shake-up. However the notion that all problems in Canada are the fault of the Liberals is a disservice to our collective intellects.

They were not responsible to what various provincial parties did to their regions. Case in point: many health care issues and crime issues in Ontario can, I feel, be largely linked to Harris's sweeping policy changes over his term. That doesn't stop people pointing fingers at Martin - as if Toronto police services staffing was a Federal issue?

Further, they cannot be held responsible for many external factors. Every economy in the world, for example, took a hit post-9/11. And every government prioritizes as it goes along. You could have the best government possible for eons and there would always be new problems to face. Problems aren't something simply to blame on the government. Implementation (or failure to do so) of solutions is what the debate needs to be about. Problems are simply the nature of life. But if you do just want to look at problems as autonomous events, at least take a moment and honestly recognize the issues solved before we got to tackling the current one.

In that case you have to look at our national balance sheet. our trade surpluses. Our improved currency value. Our continued low inflation. Our continued low interest rates. Our record low unemployment.

Those are "problems" a lot of other countries wish that they had right now....

All I can say is, thank God for NDP, the alternative to complete crap.

The other interesting tidbit: The Conservatives admit that they did not background check this candidate. They want to toss corruption charges around? Call themselves the responsible party? Hell, they don't even really know who is running for them! Don't check up on their own.


Nice spin there. But in reality, this particular candidate just wasn't forward and now is booted off. Not even 24 hours to let the story breathe. I'm glad I'm going to call Stephen Harper my prime minister soon.

What about Paul Martin and still keeping Goodale?

...actually, most of the pot in the states is grown in the states.

And living in Ontario, I am very skeptical of anyone who praised what Mike Harris did here. But since the Liberals have deceided to go with the negative campaigning, I'm voting NDP.

I can't believe that people consider the ndp as an alternative. This is the party that endorses Svend Robinson.

The guy walks in to an auction and steals a $60,000+ piece of jewlery and its ok? On top of that all he got was comunity service. No criminal record. What a crock of s**t!

Honestly I'm not happy with any of the choices. I would love for someone to step up and be the guy that makes me want to vote for him but none of the candidates do.

It truly saddens me that Chuck Cadman passed away because as a member of his riding I felt that I had someone I could coun't on to have the integrity to do the job right.

Yep, Harper lives by talking tough on specific wedge issues and ignoring the larger reality.

Taking his queue from American politics, eh?

Canada City']Nice spin there. But in reality, this particular candidate just wasn't forward and now is booted off. Not even 24 hours to let the story breathe. I'm glad I'm going to call Stephen Harper my prime minister soon.

What about Paul Martin and still keeping Goodale?

No spin. Read the first article posted:


Zeisman is a cross-border trade specialist, and up until the time of the charges he was working as a trade commissioner for the federal government.

The government knew about the charges, but the Conservative Party admits it didn't check Zeisman's background with his former employer.

Conservative Party Leader Stephen Harper, who signed Zeisman's nomination papers, says he relies on others for such checking.

"There is a screening process," Harper said. "My understanding is that it is supposed to look into criminal backgrounds, and obviously we rely on candidates to be forthcoming with information as well."


They have a screening process that would have brought these fact to light had they performed a simple, basic, background check with his employer.

Instead, they failed to perform a simple task that McDonalds does if you aply for a job there.

The argument "we will root out possible fraudsters by relying on them being honest about it to us" is hilarious. But hey, I guess that's Harper's idea of "responsible government"....



Edit: As for Goodale, there are no charges pending against him. Should an investigation determine that he was responsible for any impropriety then he should (and will) be sacked. Period. Or is that the way you want things to start operating? If you can raise a question enough for an investigation you can get a politician fired before even determining if there is any basis to the complaint? Shit - it will become a revolving door of trumped up BS to get rid of people by simpy causing an investigation.

...actually, most of the pot in the states is grown in the states.

And living in Ontario, I am very skeptical of anyone who praised what Mike Harris did here. But since the Liberals have deceided to go with the negative campaigning, I'm voting NDP.

So, you think that letting Harper continue to run his negative ads while not responding would have been sound political strategy?

Look what happened to Kerry who refused to get into the fray until the Republicans had already successfully painted the "flip-flopper" label on him! By the time he got personal in return, it was too damn late.

Liberals=Corrupt and "Culture of Entitlement" are already two bogus buzzphrases that have caught on thanks to their constant repetition. Eventually you have to fight back if you are going to win.

The NDP gets to stay above the fray because even Jack has admited that he has no chance of winning the election. So it's easy to not fight to win under those circumstances.

I believe now we may be looking at a possible majority Conservative government. I wasn't so worried when I thought they might only get a minority because I knew they wouldn't be able to pass much of their agenda as no other party in Canada that takes seats is in-line with any Conservative beliefs. Certainly most Canadians are not. However I fear by the time Canadians realize that we don't share Mr. Harper's values it will be too late.

If the Conservative party wins a majority government on Jan. 23/06, I fear we may be looking at the real and likely possibility of a different Canada than the one we know now.

I fear for my country now. I thought the conservatives might win a minority, but would fall faster then the Liberals did and I suspect if they win a minority that will be true. However, if they win a majority it will be a sad day for Canada.

For all those voting NDP, all I can compare them to is the Nador factor that happened in the US in 2000.

If the conservatives form a majority government it will be because of people who voted for the NDP, so if it happens, I don't want to hear a single person who voted NDP complain when this country looks a lot like our southern neighbours. Not one word!

Vote Liberal, as they say, "Pick your Canada"