NationStates Jolt Archive

Well, I guess we all watched Bowling for Columbine, but that's not the point of the thread.

It seems that Americans are scared for their safety, but who isn't. It's that they seem to take it a lot further than people in other countries.
Yes, the US crime rate in some statistics is quite high - but I think the perception of crime is a lot different. When I see crime on the news, I don't think about it any further. But some Americans apparently always see themselves as potential victims, leading to guns in the house, "panic rooms" and the inspiration for this thread...

http://www.gizmag.com.au/go/3592/
This is a car for "secure urban parking and driving". WTF? Are US Streets that full of GTA Characters?

So my question is...do you think US Citizens are more paranoid about their environment and possible dangers than other people?
If yes, what effect do you think that has? And does it begin to explain this "War on Terror" phenomenon?

http://www.gizmag.com.au/go/3592/
This is a car for "secure urban parking and driving". WTF? Are US Streets that full of GTA Characters?

I'd assault that car with a sledgehammer just on principle.

US citizens are being convinced that terrorists promoting gay marriage and performing free abortions are hiding in their own shadows by our shit-eating administration. Our government thrives on fear and ignorance. It's the only way they can think of to get votes from the stoopid hicks while they cut their farm susidied behind their backs. The sad part is that the religio-nazis are in on it too, and have the ability to lead their, aptly named, flocks to the slaughter with glee.

of course we are paranoid


besides, just because I am paranoid doesn't mean that they aren't out to get me. ;) anyone knows that.

Well, all things considered, I don't think US citizens are more or less paranoid than anyone else.

In my area, nobody is paranoid. There is almost no violent crime, and terrorists aren't likely to pop their heads up around here anytime soon.

It's probably different in bigger cities, but I think that most Americans worry more about the weather than they do about crime and terrorism.

It's not paranoia if they're really after you. ;)

But yeah, I'd say that my fellow countrymen take it to extreams at times.

As a whole? No. Are there some sure.

Remember we have 300 million people. You are going have such people.

The so called panic rooms are usually for wealthy celebrity types that have to deal with stalkers all the time. The whole paranoia over stalkers started with that actress who was gunned down many years ago.

The car you mentioned is a concept. First I have heard of it. Again it would be for people with a great deal of money.

Heck I don't like pedophiles. I have one near by. Am I getting a gun to watch over my kid? No. I am going to watch for him. Sure. Does that make me paranoid?

Some people label common sense as paranoia. Say bars on house windows in a crime ridden area....

I soooo want one of those cars!

of course we are paranoid


besides, just because I am paranoid doesn't mean that they aren't out to get me. ;) anyone knows that.

Don't worry. Everybody is out to get you!




;)

What? Who? Where? Are you watching me?

*peers through window*

*hides lock box*

It just seems that way because the media likes to exaggerate the situation.

In reality, we're quite lax. The only people that fear for anyone's safety are parents in fear for their children, and THOSE are the ones to watch out for when they start stomping on the rights of children that are not theirs (video game violence bills, so pathetic).

Yeah, I haven't seen anyone that insanely paranoid to even consider a shitty car like that. I mean really.

And I'm paranoid, just not for my safety. But I don't see the problem of having a gun to protect your house, ESPECIALLY if you have a family.

I would post my opinion but my computer may be bugged by GWB himself so I will post about ....baseball!

http://www.gizmag.com.au/go/3592/
This is a car for "secure urban parking and driving". WTF? Are US Streets that full of GTA Characters?

That would be perfect for an aspiring GTA character, actually. It's armoured, so it'll resist bullets, and plow through any other vehicle on the road. The police would love that.

All it needs are some sort of super-strength tires.

What? Who? Where? Are you watching me?

*peers through window*

*hides lock box*

Just ignore the guy with the binoculars outside your bedroom window!

There is no 'panic room' in my house.

I don't know anyone who owns one.

Most of the people I know, including myself, hunt and, ergo, have firearms close at hand. (The fact that a 12-ga is more effective against a burgular at five feet than against a duck at fifty yards has nothing to do with it.)

Most of the people I know, including myself, have no real fear of our houses being broken into, or of someone trying to kill us in our own homes.

However, I can easily see how a person living in LA or NYC would want a firearm for personal protection. Having lived in San Diego and travelled many times through LA, as well as to Buffalo, Seattle, San Fransisco, and Minneapolis/St Paul, I can easily see why someone wouldn't feel safe there. Why? I dunno. It just feels off. I don't know how to explain it. And given how often violent crimes occur in those cities every day, the feeling certainly seems justified.

Through out the town that I live in now, and most of the nearby ones (excepting Billings and Great Falls), I feel perfectly safe walking around, at night, alone.

I've heard that people feel pretty safe in large Japanese cities (at night, alone), but I haven't been there, so I can't say that I know what it means to feel safe in a large city. I've not heard similar things about European cities, however.

I'm not sure what the "War on Terror" phenomenon is. Whatever it is, I haven't seen it. Things today are largely the same they were on this day in 2001 (except that I'm a Sophomore in college, instead of at high school). No one I know walks around frightened to death that a terrorist is going to attack them, and that includes my friends and family who live in large cities.

we are paraniod in the sense that we feel the need for government safety regulation, but we are not paraniod in the way that we would not trust the government. i don't get it.

Just ignore the guy with the binoculars outside your bedroom window!


Tell him he's looking in the wrong place!

Geez... I for one think yeah, Americans are waaay too paranoid and freakishly preoccupied with security.

Gated, security patrolled private communities, remote starters and multiple alarms on cars, tasers and pepperspray in every purse.... get a grip people!

I live in what is commonly thought of as worst part of our city (hey, rents cheaper there), I ride my bycycle to and from work even though my shift ends at midnight. No one's ever bothered me in my little urban hood. I think it's mostly attitude, think and act like a victim and you're likely to become one...




I have been assaulted out in the 'burbs though... by well-fed white punks with too much beer in them and too much time on their hands... but they weren't looking to rob someone, just annoy and harrass people until they found the fight they wanted.

Unfortunately I didn't realize that until too late...

I have been assaulted out in the 'burbs though... by well-fed white punks with too much beer in them and too much time on their hands... but they weren't looking to rob someone, just annoy and harrass people until they found the fight they wanted.

*embarrassment*

Anyhow, I very rarely am paranoid about a fellow citizen breaking in/assualting/ext. and on assualt some days I'd welcome it. I said in another thread, but the reason I stock my house with guns/primitive weapons [swords/spears] is not out of paranoia aimed at my neighbors or other people, its because of my government & local riot police.

I watch the Riot Police spark fights with protesters[sp] all the time on T.V.
Arresting kids much younger then I'am, which leads to paranoia - "Do they enjoy it? Get paid more? " "Fuck it" I think, and just buy a few Rifles/Shotguns/Few Pistols. Make sure there accessable and go on with my life.

*embarrassment*

Anyhow, I very rarely am paranoid about a fellow citizen breaking in/assualting/ext. and on assualt some days I'd welcome it. I said in another thread, but the reason I stock my house with guns/primitive weapons [swords/spears] is not out of paranoia aimed at my neighbors or other people, its because of my government & local riot police.

I watch the Riot Police spark fights with protesters[sp] all the time on T.V.
Arresting kids much younger then I'am, which leads to paranoia - "Do they enjoy it? Get paid more? " "Fuck it" I think, and just buy a few Rifles/Shotguns/Few Pistols. Make sure there accessable and go on with my life.

Question: What good is a rifle, if you can't see to aim it? Or have you developed an immunity to CS?

An anectode, semi-related to the subject:

In the movie "Anger Management" there is a scene were Sandler siuts in a bar with his "Anger-Ally" who is a complete nutcase. His ally says "Those chicks remind me of the chicks during the war." Sandler asks "The Vietnam war?" "No, Grenada. Shit, man" His ally continues to talk a bit about how awful it was. Sandler then says "But I thought that alsted for only 24 hours". His ally looks a bit deflated, and than says "yeah."

This scene is funnier than I described it, but anyway. On our newly purchased DVD, this scene is gone! Why? Is it because it makes a joke about the military? Is it a coincidence? I think not. But why would they cut out that scene? It makes no sence, if it was a "directors cut" or something, cause later in the movie, the Anger Ally runs away, screaming "Grenadaaaa!" I find it weird. Oh, and at some websites, you can't shop computers if you're not American. :mad:

I have been assaulted out in the 'burbs though..

Isn't it always the way? I used to live in one of the most crime-ridden estates in the most crime-ridden city in my country.

Apart from when I have been working, I have only ever been assaulted once. When I was on holidays. Wandering around a seminary.

Question: What good is a rifle, if you can't see to aim it? Or have you developed an immunity to CS?

http://search.ebay.com/gas-mask_W0QQfromZR8QQfrtsZ100QQfsooZ1QQfsopZ1

http://search.ebay.com/gas-mask_W0QQfromZR8QQfrtsZ100QQfsooZ1QQfsopZ1

So you've got one of those next to your guns, have you?

You probably don't have an immunity, or a device that protects you from flash-bangs, though.

Question: What good is a rifle, if you can't see to aim it? Or have you developed an immunity to CS?

> I'd be using a handgun, as they'd be kicking down my door.

> I'd expect them, had they gone despot-ish, to be conserving there CS stores and just kicking in doors.

I said in another thread, but the reason I stock my house with guns/primitive weapons [swords/spears] is not out of paranoia aimed at my neighbors or other people, its because of my government & local riot police.

I watch the Riot Police spark fights with protesters[sp] all the time on T.V.
Arresting kids much younger then I'am, which leads to paranoia - "Do they enjoy it? Get paid more? " "Fuck it" I think, and just buy a few Rifles/Shotguns/Few Pistols. Make sure there accessable and go on with my life.Dude... don't you watch the news...you can't fight them that way, the guys with the letters on their backs always win in the long run and the 'extremist', 'terrorist' or 'mentally ill individual' always ends up in cuffs or a bodybag.

And don't kid yourself, if it ever came down to it, one of those labels will be pinned on you and you'd just be another blip on the 6 o'clock news. You need to fight such things on a different level to be efffective.

> I'd be using a handgun, as they'd be kicking down my door.

> I'd expect them, had they gone despot-ish, to be conserving there CS stores and just kicking in doors.

What caliber? You'd probably (at best) only knock the first one flat on his ass. And the guy following him will put two in your chest and one in your head.

Dude... don't you watch the news...you can't fight them that way, the guys with the letters on their backs always win in the long run and the 'extremist', 'terrorist' or 'mentally ill individual' always ends up in cuffs or a bodybag.

And don't kid yourself, if it ever came down to it, one of those labels will be pinned on you and you'd just be another blip on the 6 o'clock news. You need to fight such things on a different level to be efffective.

No, not always. You would have to fight the government the same way terrorists do, though. IEDs, RPGs, and sniper rifles.

You probably don't have an immunity, or a device that protects you from flash-bangs, though.

Hmm. It would certainly be possible, but it'd probably end up looking something like this. (http://www.rumrill.net/brian/pics/pics5/pics5/DarthVader/darth_vader_closeup.jpg)

You'd need something that can filter out soundwaves, or totally nullify them (a disadvantage) and temporarily block out light. Someone will build one someday.

So you've got one of those next to your guns, have you?

Hah, no. I own no guns. If I wanted to resist then my house would turn into a fireball ten seconds after they kicked down the door.

Hah, no. I own no guns. If I wanted to resist then my house would turn into a fireball ten seconds after they kicked down the door.

And where would you be during all of this?

What caliber? You'd probably (at best) only knock the first one flat on his ass. And the guy following him will put two in your chest and one in your head.



DrunkenDove has the better idea. I'd rig my own house, take off, blow it, and prob. search for other resistors.

And where would you be during all of this?

About half a mile away.

Paranoid? Whose paranoid?

London during the Blitz was totally cool. The British people went into the underground, slept there, and generally went on with life as normally as possible as extremly civilized people flew above them, trying to kill them. They joked about "straightening the lines" and in the papers encouraged the Nazis to bomb their neighbors home, but not theirs.

Then a few Muslims blow themselves up on buses. Less people died in these attacks than in the Blitz. And there is certainly less of a threat from these terrorists than the entire Nazi airforce. Keeping in mind, British people were just as obliviant and unworried as they were when the IRA was running amuck. Life stopped. People didn't go to work because of these few Muslims.

What has happened to people? Have we lost our balls, or are we too concered with keeping them attached? There are evidences of this all over the world.

But, back on subject, of course American's are paranoid. Two airplanes smashed into two really tall buildings in one of our most beloved cities! And to keep that fresh in our memory, our government and media reminds us every three minutes or so! Crime? I'm not sure about crime. All I can really do is lock my house, car, and valuables in lockers. Getting mugged or shot? Unlikely. Getting T-Boned in my car is more likely than that.

Given their disproportionate response to, for example, the London bombings, I'd say so.

What has happened to people? Have we lost our balls, or are we too concered with keeping them attached?

I seem to remember people sunbathing directly across from where the bus exploded the very next day after the bombings.

I cannot tell Americans how they are really, but I can tell about the impression they leave with me. "They" being some friends I have over there, the people I discuss with on here, the soldiers I met while growing up in Germany plus the news coverage. Keep in mind, that's most likely not very representative.

Americans on the whole seem to react on a more emotional level to any form of threat, real or imagined.
As a result, they come across as slightly more hysteric and often profoundly paranoid. However, only a minority seems to take action on this hysteria, for most Americans it's just a passing experience, I would say. You get your moment of fright, and then you just continue on as usual. The minority who does change their habits due to this percieved threat on the other hand have a tendency to go for really radical "solutions", which can be quite scary for the outside world.

Paranoid? Whose paranoid?

London during the Blitz was totally cool. The British people went into the underground, slept there, and generally went on with life as normally as possible as extremly civilized people flew above them, trying to kill them. They joked about "straightening the lines" and in the papers encouraged the Nazis to bomb their neighbors home, but not theirs.

Then a few Muslims blow themselves up on buses. Less people died in these attacks than in the Blitz. And there is certainly less of a threat from these terrorists than the entire Nazi airforce. Keeping in mind, British people were just as obliviant and unworried as they were when the IRA was running amuck. Life stopped. People didn't go to work because of these few Muslims.


Where did life stop? And who didn't go to work the next day? I seem to remember events a bit differently...

DrunkenDove has the better idea. I'd rig my own house, take off, blow it, and prob. search for other resistors.

Er... you edited, dammit!

But, as I was gonna say: You do precisely dick good to anyone dead.

"Coward" is the term invented by a giant to describe someone else who has the miraculous ability to harm said giant in the greatest way possible, while maintaining a maximum allowance for security.

However, I am interested to know how either of you would know the cops were coming. Unless you've done something before hand, or you're planning on doing something soon, the cops would have the drop on you. And, barring a miracle, you're gonna get caught. Or dead. Or both.

And considering humanity's luck with traps like that one: you'd probably wind up blowing up your neighbor or your mother, well before the cops ever get to your house.

So my question is...do you think US Citizens are more paranoid about their environment and possible dangers than other people?
If yes, what effect do you think that has? And does it begin to explain this "War on Terror" phenomenon?

short answer: yes. in fact, paranoia has historically played a significant political role on numerous occassions here. shit, we had a somewhat sucessful political party whose sole purpose (at first) was to oppose the free-masons. they actually invented many aspects of the american party system.

there's a rather famous essay on the subject, The Paranoid Style in American Politics (http://www.writely.com/Doc.aspx?id=afkmwgpz7nw2), by richard hofstadter.

I cannot tell Americans how they are really, but I can tell about the impression they leave with me. "They" being some friends I have over there, the people I discuss with on here, the soldiers I met while growing up in Germany plus the news coverage. Keep in mind, that's most likely not very representative.

Americans on the whole seem to react on a more emotional level to any form of threat, real or imagined.
As a result, they come across as slightly more hysteric and often profoundly paranoid. However, only a minority seems to take action on this hysteria, for most Americans it's just a passing experience, I would say. You get your moment of fright, and then you just continue on as usual. The minority who does change their habits due to this percieved threat on the other hand have a tendency to go for really radical "solutions", which can be quite scary for the outside world.

I think that accuractely sums it up. I remember 9/11 and the hysterics that occured during it and for months after. I also (kinda sorta) recall the transition away from those hysterics, and life (and politics) went back to normal. Except for the fact that we were bombing Afghanistan.

I seem to remember people sunbathing directly across from where the bus exploded the very next day after the bombings.
Great...there goes my whole argument then.

Do you have a link, or should we say that these people we're American tourists?

There are records of a huge number of Londoners not reporting to work the next following days after the bombings.

I can do the very same thing you did: the day of 9/11 I continued to attend school and football practice, where I could have been blown up by a terrorist or shot by a crazy gun-wielding psycho.

Anyhow, I digress. I'll bash America in another thread. :p

I think there are two different arenas to deal with here- the personal and the political.

In the personal arena, I don't think we're especially paranoid; aside from mass purchases of duct tape and toilet paper, we tend to move on with our daily lives after terrorist attacks (ignore the twits who claim PTSD symptoms over the destruction of 2 buildings 3,000 miles away, with none of their friends or relatives in anything even resembling danger). While we may take precautions against assault, the US has a high enough murder rate that such may be justified. I will note, though, that in a recent trip to Western Europe (roaming 6 different countries over several weeks as a tourist), my dad found that in huge cities like Paris, he could go out at 10 PM and feel infinitely more secure than he would in any American city that late at night. People simply weren't worried about being attacked at night.

Politically, Americans are paranoid as all hell, and have been since Pearl Harbor. Overtly or not, the US has spent the last 65 years guarding its crotch against another surprise attack like that; hence, the Cold War and the current War on Terror- we always maintained the ability to strike first, no matter how stupid the situation, in order to avoid another crotch-shot. 9/11 has only refreshed that inclination. We're also noted for all sorts of panicked conspiracy accusations- McCarthy's Communist witchhunts in the '50s, suspicion about Roswell and other paranormal activity, the idea of a vast left-wing conspiracy to destroy Christmas, and so on. We're twitchy like that.

And considering humanity's luck with traps like that one: you'd probably wind up blowing up your neighbor or your mother, well before the cops ever get to your house.

That is something that I have some skill at. You're right though, a advanced warning system is needed. Hmmmmm.

Er... you edited, dammit!

:p


However, I am interested to know how either of you would know the cops were coming. Unless you've done something before hand,
*ding ding ding*

And considering humanity's luck with traps like that one: you'd probably wind up blowing up your neighbor or your mother, well before the cops ever get to your house.

Dont give a flying fuck about my neighbor, dont live with my mother, and the trap would be prepared as safe as possible. The `trap`, whatever it is at the time, would by no means be a dependant. It would be there to cause shit if it worked, if it didn't it didn't - I'm still gone.

Politically, Americans are paranoid as all hell, and has been since Pearl Harbor.

it's much older than that.

it's much older than that.

True. My impression is that the pilgrims actually brought it with them. The whole notion of "We're being persecuted, everybody is out to get us, run to the hills!"...

Dont give a flying fuck about my neighbor, dont live with my mother, and the trap would be prepared as safe as possible. The `trap`, whatever it is at the time, would by no means be a dependant. It would be there to cause shit if it worked, if it didn't it didn't - I'm still gone.

Er... I guess I must have nice neighbors, then. Mormons. Nice folk.

But if your first IED isn't working, it's probably a bad foot to start on for your resistance operation. Guess you'd use RPGs, in that case, or would you try building another IED? :p

it's much older than that.

Nah, before that, we were either aggressive or reservedly isolationist, not paranoid. Well, I guess you may attribute entry into WWI to paranoia about the Zimmerman telegraph... Bah.

That is something that I have some skill at. You're right though, a advanced warning system is needed. Hmmmmm.

I'd hope that if things got so bad that the cops were going door-to-door arresting dissenters, that you'd have started resisting the government long before the cops got close to your house. Unless they started at your house. In which case, you're screwed... but you're a martyr, too!

there's a rather famous essay on the subject, The Paranoid Style in American Politics (http://www.writely.com/Doc.aspx?id=afkmwgpz7nw2), by richard hofstadter.

seriosuly, everyone should read this essay.

“It is an ascertained fact,” wrote another Protestant militant,

"that Jesuits are prowling about all parts of the United States in every possible disguise, expressly to ascertain the advantageous situations and modes to disseminate Popery. A minister of the Gospel from Ohio has informed us that he discovered one carrying on his devices in his congregation; and he says that the western country swarms with them under the name of puppet show men, dancing masters, music teachers, peddlers of images and ornaments, barrel organ players, and similar practitioners."

ah, for the days when the enemy of choice for the delusional was the jesuits...

Er... I guess I must have nice neighbors, then. Mormons. Nice folk.

<-- Ex-mormon.

I dislike my neighbors extremely. I have a spaced-out-of-reality guy on one side who's kid is a neo-nazi. On my other side and down the block is just people who really dont give two shits about anything that doesn't relate to America. :rolleyes: If they burn, they burn.

In which case, you're screwed... but you're a martyr, too!

I'm sure that though would give me comfort as chunks of my body were being blown off. Or maybe not.

Nah, before that, we were either aggressive or reservedly isolationist, not paranoid. Well, I guess you may attribute entry into WWI to paranoia about the Zimmerman telegraph... Bah.
Mexico invade US! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican-American_War

Been there, done that, we beat them.

The reasons why we went to war was more of economic interest. Economy affects American politics more than paranoia any day.

http://www.j-bradford-delong.net/TCEH/Slouch_WWI10.html

The reasons why we went to war was more of economic interest. Economy affects American politics more than paranoia any day.

Hah, they go hand in hand.

Hah, they go hand in hand.

I'm still waiting for a war to start for reasons other than economic interest.

I'm sure that though would give me comfort as chunks of my body were being blown off. Or maybe not.

Probably not. But when you get your 72 virgins, you won't give a damn about us, anyway. ;)

Hah, they go hand in hand.
Public histeria and concern over losing millions of dollars on Wallsteet are two completely different motives. There was strong support for the Central Powers from Germans and Irish in the Great War, the country was slipt half. The reason to side with Britain was from British descendants on the East Coast, where, conincidentally, there were many factory owners and money being made.

The economy picking up after entering the war is also good proof in my opinion.

Probably not. But when you get your 72 virgins, you won't give a damn about us, anyway. ;)

Why would I go to the bother of being shot when I can instead hire seventy-two highly experienced women for myself in this life?

Why would I go to the bother of being shot when I can instead hire seventy-two highly experienced women for myself in this life?

Because you need not worry about mortality in the after-life?

Why would I go to the bother of being shot when I can instead hire seventy-two highly experienced women for myself in this life?

Where would you get the money? They don't come cheap, you know.
As I understand, the current rate is 4 camels and twelve goats per woman. Oh, and a bar of Swiss chocolate.

Because you need not worry about mortality in the after-life?

Yeah. In the afterlife, you can't get VD!

Where would you get the money? They don't come cheap, you know.
As I understand, the current rate is 4 camels and twelve goats per woman. Oh, and a bar of Swiss chocolate.

Or fifty Kalashnikovs or a dozen grenades. For the quality stuff.

Where would you get the money? They don't come cheap, you know.

Pimp myself out as a man-whore, of course.

Yeah. In the afterlife, you can't get VD!

That is a very nice advantage alright.

Or fifty Kalashnikovs or a dozen grenades. For the quality stuff.

Meh, I'd rather spare the camels then my precious'

Meh, I'd rather spare the camels then my precious'

True. So long as you still have some camels left over, you can breed them to get more. Or take those AKs and rob the poor camelherd next door....

Last I heard though, AKs on the Iran-Iraq border were going for something like $20US and hand grenades for $30US. If I recall properly, the man selling them said that the hand grenades were very good for going fishing... mind you this was long before Gulf War III.

Mexico invade US! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican-American_War

Been there, done that, we beat them.

The reasons why we went to war was more of economic interest. Economy affects American politics more than paranoia any day.

http://www.j-bradford-delong.net/TCEH/Slouch_WWI10.html

Everything, at root, is about economic interest. There are other components as well.

As I said, there was paranoia. Remember that the US Army was very small in 1917, and (save for aging veterans from the Spanish-American War) inexperienced. We hadn't faced a competent opponent since the Civil War; not competent foreign opponent since the Mexican-American War. While a war with Mexico would have eventually ended in victory for the US, it's possible that Mexico could have made enough early advances to make such an event unacceptable to American politicians, who didn't want to face the political and economic repurcussions of such an event- people weren't going to elect Congressmen who sat on their hands while the country was invaded. So, we declared war on Germany, pointing out the sinking of the Lusitania. Again, paranoia.

-snips-

*snaps fingers* Damn that'd be fun to have.

Everything, at root, is about economic interest.

that seems a bit reductionist

that seems a bit reductionist

You should check out Freud- he reduces everything to the instinct to have sex.

I blame the late hour; I meant that all political events have at least one component of economic interest that serves as the frame for all the other factors involved. I leave it up to the observor to decide whether or not that applies to non-political events as well; I'm too tired.

The only really paranoid ones are the extreme right because they fear they might lose power... and the extreme left which fears that the right will use that power against them... and such paranoia switches hands every now and then.

As I said, there was paranoia. Remember that the US Army was very small in 1917, and (save for aging veterans from the Spanish-American War) inexperienced. We hadn't faced a competent opponent since the Civil War; not competent foreign opponent since the Mexican-American War. While a war with Mexico would have eventually ended in victory for the US, it's possible that Mexico could have made enough early advances to make such an event unacceptable to American politicians, who didn't want to face the political and economic repurcussions of such an event- people weren't going to elect Congressmen who sat on their hands while the country was invaded. So, we declared war on Germany, pointing out the sinking of the Lusitania. Again, paranoia.
So, we are agreed then! (on the economic thing, and on the sex thing to, depending on which light light we're viewing things under)

However, I wasn't saying that Mexico wouldn't declare war on the US. Rather, I was thinking exactly what you said here: any war involved between US and the Mexicans would result in US winning. I apologize for not expressing that.

As far as the circumstances surrounding the Zimmerman telegram go, I feel that Mexico would not have done it, but it is a possibility, however unlikely. The US government should be smart enough to realize this, in my opinion, while the general puplic would not have felt that way. While I don't like linking wiki, and my conclusions were not drawn from this particular source, here I go:

Later, a general assigned by Mexico's president, Venustiano Carranza, assessed the realities of a Mexican takeover of their former provinces and came to the conclusion that it would not work for the following reasons: taking over the three states would almost certainly cause future problems and possibly war with the US; Mexico would also be unable to accommodate a large Anglo population within its borders; and Germany would not be able to supply the arms needed in the hostilities that would surely arise. Carranza declined Zimmermann's proposals on April 14, by which time the US had declared war on Germany.

Which is exactly what I think. Unlike Europe, where the various countries and peoples had been at war for as long as we can remember at one point or another, the United States and Mexico had only one occasion where large conflict arose. The relations between the two countries would be very strained, from then, until now, and even in the future. Such taking back of those provinces, even if they had been successfuly retrived, would be unacceptable. The terrortories in question were purchased from Mexico, fair and square, such as New Mexico and Arizona, while Texas' terrirotry was rather a toss in the air, with independence and all, and that goes for California as well. But with California and Texas appealing to join the States, it's not like we annexed them, so to say.

It would be like having Cuba right next door, instead of a boat ride away.

Thus, I conclude with the unlikeliness of a viable Mexican threat, that the decision to go to war for the US in the First World War is more economic. Also, it is mildly concerned with German attacks on shipping lines, which also is more of an economic impact than loss of lives, as the passengers on the Lusitania were fully warned of the possibility of getting attacked. There was also some attempts of German espionage in WWI, however, they were just as unsucessful as in the Second World War. Its not something greatly looked at, however, so its factoring into the equation leaves the events as rather fogettable.

Where did this thread start? :p

It just seems that way because the media likes to exaggerate the situation.


Yeah, I haven't seen anyone that insanely paranoid to even consider a shitty car like that. I mean really.




How about SUVS?
Ever see those commercials?

Always quick to relate how this particular one was rated #1 in crash tests..or rated the same in safety.

Always a Mom figure driving the car, usually a kid (normally white) in the back.
Maybe some bad weather, or even random rockslides, and the vehicle manages to dash out of the way, or trudge through a raging stream, and again, showing how SAFE this vehicle is.

Then, they say something like "isnt your child worth it?" , or some such equivalent.

We frighten people into buying huge vehicles that suck down the gas, out of fear.
We tell buyers that something bad may happen to thier families if they dont buy our vehicle.

Same with terrorism.

How many terror attacks on US soil has there been?

Three.

World Trade Center bombing 1.

Oklahoma Federal Building.

9/11.

Your odds of getting killed in a terrorist attack are less likely than getting struck by lightning, or bitten by a poisonous snake.
You probably have a better chance to win the lottery, than killed by a terrorist.

YET, we are ass deep in Iraq to conquer the "terrorists".

It just seems that way because the media likes to exaggerate the situation.


Yeah, I haven't seen anyone that insanely paranoid to even consider a shitty car like that. I mean really.




How about SUVS?
Ever see those commercials?

Always quick to relate how this particular one was rated #1 in crash tests..or rated the same in safety.

Always a Mom figure driving the car, usually a kid (normally white) in the back.
Maybe some bad weather, or even random rockslides, and the vehicle manages to dash out of the way, or trudge through a raging stream, and again, showing how SAFE this vehicle is.

Then, they say something like "isnt your child worth it?" , or some such equivalent.

We frighten people into buying huge vehicles that suck down the gas, out of fear.
We tell buyers that something bad may happen to thier families if they dont buy our vehicle.

Same with terrorism.

How many terror attacks on US soil has there been?

Three.

World Trade Center bombing 1.

Oklahoma Federal Building.

9/11.

Your odds of getting killed in a terrorist attack are less likely than getting struck by lightning, or bitten by a poisonous snake.
You probably have a better chance to win the lottery, than killed by a terrorist.

YET, we are ass deep in Iraq to conquer the "terrorists".

It just seems that way because the media likes to exaggerate the situation.


Yeah, I haven't seen anyone that insanely paranoid to even consider a shitty car like that. I mean really.




How about SUVS?
Ever see those commercials?

Always quick to relate how this particular one was rated #1 in crash tests..or rated the same in safety.

Always a Mom figure driving the car, usually a kid (normally white) in the back.
Maybe some bad weather, or even random rockslides, and the vehicle manages to dash out of the way, or trudge through a raging stream, and again, showing how SAFE this vehicle is.

Then, they say something like "isnt your child worth it?" , or some such equivalent.

We frighten people into buying huge vehicles that suck down the gas, out of fear.
We tell buyers that something bad may happen to thier families if they dont buy our vehicle.

Same with terrorism.

How many terror attacks on US soil has there been?

Three.

World Trade Center bombing 1.

Oklahoma Federal Building.

9/11.

Your odds of getting killed in a terrorist attack are less likely than getting struck by lightning, or bitten by a poisonous snake.
You probably have a better chance to win the lottery, than killed by a terrorist.

YET, we are ass deep in Iraq to conquer the "terrorists".

See, you got it.

It does seem very strange to me - objectively really, in most areas US cities are no worse than European cities.
To be quite honest, neither in Germany or here has there ever been a news story or anything like that about "Home Invasion". Yet in the US people seem to love stories like that, and then go on to buy guns. Regardless of their efficiency at repelling possible crime...isn't the probability that you'd get to use it minute (queue various Americans telling me their heroic stories over the web where I can't verify them)?

Another thing is of course the whole Terrorism thing. Objectively, it is true. Lightnings, Cars and Coconuts are all more dangerous than AQ to your average American.
Repeated terror attacks have occured all over the world, many of them a lot more frequent and threatening than 9/11. Yet life there goes on - it's just one of the risks of life.
Even in Western countries (ie IRA, ETA, Red Brigades, RAF), responses were still measured compared to what happened in the US after 9/11. There it has all become "They want to destroy our Way of Life!!!". Sure they do, but they can't.

So if there is paranoia...can it be cured? Wouldn't life be much nicer if you wouldn't worry about crime and terrorism and all the rest of it all the time?

no

Wouldn't life be much nicer if you wouldn't worry about crime and terrorism and all the rest of it all the time?

yes. but that would be downright unamerican. and if it wasn't crime and terrorism, we'd go back to commies, immigrants, jesuits, freemasons, and jews all being out to destroy our way of life.

As a whole? No. Are there some sure.

Remember we have 300 million people. You are going have such people.

The so called panic rooms are usually for wealthy celebrity types that have to deal with stalkers all the time. The whole paranoia over stalkers started with that actress who was gunned down many years ago.

The car you mentioned is a concept. First I have heard of it. Again it would be for people with a great deal of money.

Heck I don't like pedophiles. I have one near by. Am I getting a gun to watch over my kid? No. I am going to watch for him. Sure. Does that make me paranoid?

Some people label common sense as paranoia. Say bars on house windows in a crime ridden area....

Some people also label being prepared as paranoia. I like to think I have taken reasonable steps to protect and provide for my family with several scenarios in mind.
I'm not talking about asteroids raining down on earth- but a tsunami on the east coast? This bird flu becoming a closer threat? Fire? Someone trying to break in? Yes- I have plans and provisions to deal with those events.

I dont have an armored car, but my cars are in good repair and always near full of fuel.

My family and I will never be found dead in the attic after a flood. We will never be standing on a mile long line for cheese or water.
Being prepared and able to take care of yourself and those around you isnt paranoid.
Its responsible.

Every nation has paranoid segments of it's society.

European paranoids are afraid of US global hedgemony and cultural imperialism. We're apparently planning to drive every European small business to failure and replace every European nation's culture with Mc Donalds and bad action movies. Our multinational corporations are somehow more sinister and exploitative than European ones despite the fact that they cause the same problems in the third world.

As for the war on terror, the OP gives me the impression that giving it any thought whatsoever is paranoia and further that he hasn't read any books by terrorism analysts that detail the threat posed by Al Quaeda.

No. We are not paranoid. I can say for ceratin that having a gun is a reasonable precaution, for example. Ironically, the one time I could have used it, I was in DC, where guns are illegal...

YOU would be paranoid too if there were places in YOUR city where you can get beat up/mugged/killed just for being white or wearing the wrong colors or some combination of the two.

Our inner cities are sickening displays of humanity.

YOU would be paranoid too if there were places in YOUR city where you can get beat up/mugged/killed just for being white or wearing the wrong colors or some combination of the two.

Our inner cities are sickening displays of humanity.
I disagree. I've almost never had problems with anyone in the ghettos. My cousin's wife was recently mugged at knifepoint in the suburbs. Crime happens everywhere.

Most ghetto crime is drug dealers competing for turf and customers and the occasional robber. The first group won't bother you (though they will ask you if you want to buy some crack), the second group can be more problematic, but they're not robbing you because your white, only because you look scared.

Good grief this forum is screwed up - I keep getting those 'database error' pages when I try to visit pages 4 and 5. Anyway,

Is it actually possible to build immunity to teargas? the most I can find is some people are born immune to it.

Good grief this forum is screwed up - I keep getting those 'database error' pages when I try to visit pages 4 and 5. Anyway,

Is it actually possible to build immunity to teargas? the most I can find is some people are born immune to it.
I've heard that people who eat alot of spicy foods can build up a resistence to OC pepper spray. I don't know if it's a confirmed fact though.

I've heard that people who eat alot of spicy foods can build up a resistence to OC pepper spray. I don't know if it's a confirmed fact though.

I've heard you can build immunity to pepper spray by using it on yourself, too, but obviously that takes guts. You can build immunity to lots of poisons, too, which I've always thought would be cool.

EDIT: ok,sorry, I'll stop hijacking now...

As for the war on terror, the OP gives me the impression that giving it any thought whatsoever is paranoia and further that he hasn't read any books by terrorism analysts that detail the threat posed by Al Quaeda.
Seriously, I'd like to see the book that tells me that Al-Qaeda could defeat the US and destroy its way of life.

Seems to me like the only real damage can be done by Americans themselves. In fact, just the other day Xenophobialand had an awesome quote on that:
At what point shall we expect the approach of danger? By what means shall we fortify against it? Shall we expect some transatlantic military giant, to step the Ocean, and crush us at a blow? Never! All the armies of Europe, Asia and Africa combined, with all the treasure of the earth (our own excepted) in their military chest; with a Buonaparte for a commander, could not by force, take a drink from the Ohio, or make a track on the Blue Ridge, in a trial of a thousand years. At what point, then, is the approach of danger to be expected? I answer, if it ever reach us it must spring up amongst us. It cannot come from abroad. If destruction be our lot, we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen, we must live through all time, or die by suicide.

I've heard that people who eat alot of spicy foods can build up a resistence to OC pepper spray. I don't know if it's a confirmed fact though.

Well... My little anecdote: I eat scrambled eggs with diced habanero peppers in them all the time. I still find that if I touch my face after cutting up the peppers, I wish that I'd just had cereal.

Moral of the story: Don't even think about putting capsicum in your eyes for fun and frolics.

I dont know that it's accurate to state Americans are more paranoid. I'm not sure it's necessarily the level/amount of paranoia, but rather the focus and distribution.

Seriously, I'd like to see the book that tells me that Al-Qaeda could defeat the US and destroy its way of life.

Seems to me like the only real damage can be done by Americans themselves. In fact, just the other day Xenophobialand had an awesome quote on that:
Al Quaeda is interested in making the US' support of regimes in the muslim world too costly in terms of economics and American lives to maintain. That's why they're attacking us. They think that without US military and economic aid governments like the Saudi royal family would be easy for them to topple and replace with radical islamist rulers loyal to a new caliph.

To that end we know that they are trying to get their hands on nuclear weapons and we know that they've experimented with improvised chemical weapons. Remember the footage captured in Afghanistan of dogs in chages being exposed to homemade HCN gas?

Have you studied anything about Al Qaeda? A good book to start with is "The Age of Sacred Terror" by Daniel Benjamin and Steven Simon. It's a good history of Al Qaeda from start to 9/11