NationStates Jolt Archive

Does the US endorse Christianity? Think about it for a second. Bush governs and runs this country based upon his religious values (banning gay marriages, speaking in the name of Jesus, and if you say there is no religious agenda in Iraq, I would have to say you're crazy... all though I may be somewhat of a conspiracy theorist:p ).

I would have to say that, yes, the US is a Christian nation, whether non-Christians like it or not. That's bullshit.

It doesn't officially endorse Christianity. Though the amount of praise Israel constantly gets from the US government, you'd think the administration was run by Jewish extremists.

The US isn't supposed to be a Christian nation, it's supposed to be a secular government where religious decisions are left up to the individual citizens. Unfortunately Bush never got the memo.

did you ever notice how it was "serparation of Church and State" not mosque? temple? etc.

the hints are everywhere

When did Bush ban gay marriage? :confused:

Officially? No. Rightfully? No. Legally/Constitutionally? No.

Under the rulership (I refuse to say leadership) of the Monkey-in-Chief? Unfortunately yes.

When did Bush ban gay marriage? :confused:

He's trying. His party suceeded in several states.

did you ever notice how it was "serparation of Church and State" not mosque? temple? etc.

the hints are everywhere
Well considering that "church" was originally meant to signify all organised religions, not just Christianity, I'd say that "hint" probably wouldn't be the greatest indication that the modern United States endorse Christianity.

Think about it, 80% of America IS Christian. Also, every president was Christian.

Oh yeah, being PC is BS.

in my puny European mind no your too concerned putting America above God/s

No.

The US Right kicks Christianity to the kerb, grinds its face against the tarmac then steals its identity and claims to have done the world a favour.

The US Left thinks the US Right is Christianity.

Duh.
Look at the money.
Look at the pledge.
Look at the official holidays.
Look at the swearing in of jurors and the president.

Does the US endorse Christianity? Think about it for a second. Bush governs and runs this country based upon his religious values (banning gay marriages, speaking in the name of Jesus, and if you say there is no religious agenda in Iraq, I would have to say you're crazy... all though I may be somewhat of a conspiracy theorist:p ).

I would have to say that, yes, the US is a Christian nation, whether non-Christians like it or not. That's bullshit.

The answer is 'yes'... but you spelled "Enforce" incorrectly...

Does the US endorse Christianity? Think about it for a second. Bush governs and runs this country based upon his religious values (banning gay marriages, speaking in the name of Jesus, and if you say there is no religious agenda in Iraq, I would have to say you're crazy... all though I may be somewhat of a conspiracy theorist:p ).

I would have to say that, yes, the US is a Christian nation, whether non-Christians like it or not. That's bullshit.


President Bush does not run the country based on his Christianity:

a)He has done nothing to ban gay marriage -- it is a state issue. Marriage, by definition, is between man and woman.

b)I'm not sure I've ever heard him utter the name "Jesus"... God, yes, but not Jesus. "God" is, um, a fairly common deital moniker among monotheists.

c)There is no religious agenda in Iraq. If there were, it'd be a muslim one. There is a government-type issue in Iraq...

All of your accusations border on libel as they cannot be substantiated... you merely hate the guy and will lie to try to make him look bad. (at least that's what it looks like)

The US Left thinks the US Right is Christianity.
:D ROFLMAO! :p

No, the US doesn't endorse Christianity. Does the US government have missionaries in Iraq? Has Bush declared a Crusade in the name of Jesus Christ? None of that.

I would have to say that, yes, the US is a Christian nation, whether non-Christians like it or not.
I'll alert the media!

Why am I asked to swear on a Bible to tell the truth for jury duty?

Duh.
Look at the money.
Look at the pledge.
Look at the official holidays.
Look at the swearing in of jurors and the president.

money: In God We Trust (no mention of Jesus... remember, it's Jesus who makes Christianity different from Islam or Judaism...)
---
pledge: Under God (not "under Jesus")
---
Christmas: Yes, this one is used to celebrate Christ's birth... but it was also a pagan holiday in Rome before Jesus came to be. Jesus is the reason most Americans celebrate Christmas (at least ostensibly), but there's also the secular tradition of the holiday. (in other words, Christmas may be enjoyed by Christians and non-Christians alike, for different reasons)

Thanksgiving: secular

halloween: secular (not sure if it's an officiall holiday)

valentine's day: see above entry

new year/new year's day: secular

so what's the beef with holidays?

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swearing-in ceremonies: there is the Bible thing, which I think is optional (you do have to raise a hand as you take the oath, at least)... it's the same in the courts -- Bible is optional. At that, the Bible is 3/4 Judaism (Old Testament).

In sum: Apart from "under God" and "In God We Trust" (etc.), which are both non-specific references to a power greater than us, there should be no beef. If there were to be a beef, Christians could bitch about having their right to religious expression trampled on by the Anti-Christ Liberal Urinators (hehe)

- Yes, he's made numerous specifically Christian religious references is speeches.

- He's lobbied as hard as any other Christian fundamentalist Republican to get gay marriage Constitutionally banned. He supports all the initiatives to do so on the state and federal level, just like the rest of his party.

- Abstinence-only sex education? Stem cell funding ban? Terry Schiavo incident interference? Faith-based initiatives? Abortion?

Of course he runs the country based on his religion - I've seen quotes where members of his administration referred derisively to the "reality-based crowd." Instead of facts and reality, he makes decisions for the country based on the dictates if his born-again Christian "moral" code.

I haven't actually seen Bush run the country based on his religion. You know he can't really right, I mean haven't you ever heard of "checks and balances". :rolleyes:

The US doesn't endorse Christianity as much as they endorse the freedom to have your own religion. One would think that that freedom would extend to the President too.

Well, there's that whole part where he and his cronies are trying to erode checks and balances, and destroy altogether the separation of church and state.

And of course he's allowed to have his own religion. What he isn't allowed to do is govern by it. We aren't a theocracy.

The US doesn't endorse Christianity as much as they endorse the freedom to have your own religion. One would think that that freedom would extend to the President too.

Agreed. The problem came when he announced that God told him to invade Iraq. If he wasn't the most powerful man in the world it'd be funny.:(

The US isn't supposed to be a Christian nation, it's supposed to be a secular government where religious decisions are left up to the individual citizens. Unfortunately Bush never got the memo.
Can you give me link where Bush is dictating to individuals what faith they can believe in and live by?
Can you show one link where Bush has ordered that businesses be closed and sports activities be banned on Sunday?
The President talking about his faith on a weekday morning talk show does not count as him forcing Americans to choose his religion.

Yeah, with him being the most powerful man in the world, it conjures up images of the Crusades, jihads, Hitler/Stalin/Mussolini/etc., and Christian versions of Iran spread across conquered continents....

Yeah, with him being the most powerful man in the world, it conjures up images of the Crusades, jihads, Hitler/Stalin/Mussolini/etc., and Christian versions of Iran spread across conquered continents....

I think that's going a little too far. He hasn't got the competancy or the strategy to be a new Hitler.

Well, there's that whole part where he and his cronies are trying to erode checks and balances, and destroy altogether the separation of church and state.

And of course he's allowed to have his own religion. What he isn't allowed to do is govern by it. We aren't a theocracy.

this statement that he's trying toerode checks and balances is amusing... he's using executive powers other presidents have used before (NSA phone-tapping among them), the Patriot Act had to be passed by Congress before it became law (which is a great example of checks and balances...) and it's still being mulled in Congress -- if President Bush were really trying to erode C&B, he'd simply make the Pat Act an executive order.

Finally, this separation of church and state thing is hilarious... it's as if atheists begrudge us the right to even mention the words "God" or "Jesus" in public

cripes:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion

Last time I checked, there was no such thing as a Church of America... "In God We Trust" and "Under God" are not specific to any single religion...

or prohibiting the free exercise thereof

now there we have something... who in here is afraid to mention Jesus in public for fear of being chastised or punched? Freedom to say "Jesus" is protected; freedom to punch the person who does is not.

Finally, this separation of church and state thing is hilarious... it's as if atheists begrudge us the right to even mention the words "God" or "Jesus" in public

cripes:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion

Last time I checked, there was no such thing as a Church of America... "In God We Trust" and "Under God" are not specific to any single religion...

or prohibiting the free exercise thereof

now there we have something... who in here is afraid to mention Jesus in public for fear of being chastised or punched? Freedom to say "Jesus" is protected; freedom to punch the person who does is not.

Will your argument be following the yellow brick road to ask the Wizard of Oz for some brains?

Yeah, with him being the most powerful man in the world, it conjures up images of the Crusades, jihads, Hitler/Stalin/Mussolini/etc., and Christian versions of Iran spread across conquered continents....

ROFL

(not.. worth.. serious.. comment)

yeah, boy, we have all those concentration camps with millions of muslims -- not just the bad ones who are terrorists, but all sorts of muslims -- and we're killing millions of them.

yeah, and man, like Stalin he's having every third person murdered due to his paranoid schizophrenia... He's nearing Stalin's total of 20 million...

and like the crusaders, he's trying to secure traveling/passport rights across the Holy Land... lmao

Chrsitian version of IRan? what the hell are you talking about? I don't even know how to make fun of that leap of abstraction.

money: In God We Trust (no mention of Jesus... remember, it's Jesus who makes Christianity different from Islam or Judaism...)
---
pledge: Under God (not "under Jesus")
---
Christmas: Yes, this one is used to celebrate Christ's birth... but it was also a pagan holiday in Rome before Jesus came to be. Jesus is the reason most Americans celebrate Christmas (at least ostensibly), but there's also the secular tradition of the holiday. (in other words, Christmas may be enjoyed by Christians and non-Christians alike, for different reasons)

Thanksgiving: secular

halloween: secular (not sure if it's an officiall holiday)

valentine's day: see above entry

new year/new year's day: secular

so what's the beef with holidays?

-----

swearing-in ceremonies: there is the Bible thing, which I think is optional (you do have to raise a hand as you take the oath, at least)... it's the same in the courts -- Bible is optional. At that, the Bible is 3/4 Judaism (Old Testament).

In sum: Apart from "under God" and "In God We Trust" (etc.), which are both non-specific references to a power greater than us, there should be no beef. If there were to be a beef, Christians could bitch about having their right to religious expression trampled on by the Anti-Christ Liberal ors (hehe)
The "under God" and "in god we trust" were added in the McCarthy era. You know damn well what god they meant.

The holidays everyone gets off are Thanksgiving, quasi-religious, Christmas and Easter. Many people get the monday after easter off because its on a sunday.

People aren't told they have the right to have and alternate oath when they are sworn in to jury duty. Though I insisted on it. The giving the oath was surprised and confused, as though she had never heard of such a thing.

The US government does endorse christianity. It doesn't force you to, it just let's you assume there is no other choice. After all, the nations legislature starts off with a prayer. Not being christian places a bit of a stigma on one. Not being religious at all carries a very large one in this country, especially in the rural bible belt.

The US totally *reeks* of Christianity! I'd say "endorse" is still way too weak! :eek:

No.

The US Right kicks Christianity to the kerb, grinds its face against the tarmac then steals its identity and claims to have done the world a favour.

The US Left thinks the US Right is Christianity.

By Jove, I think he's got it.

94% of the country believes in God and most of them are Protestant. I'd say we're one of the most religious countries in the Christain world.

Does the US endorse Christianity? Think about it for a second. Bush governs and runs this country based upon his religious values (banning gay marriages, speaking in the name of Jesus, and if you say there is no religious agenda in Iraq, I would have to say you're crazy... all though I may be somewhat of a conspiracy theorist).

Bush's "religious agenda" is almost entirely a publicity stunt to attract otherwise apolitical Christians to vote for him. Putting up a proposition to ban gay marriages and using religious metaphors in his speeches are not what I would call significant. Also, there is no religious agenda in Iraq. The neocons are a secular cabal.

President Bush does not run the country based on his Christianity:

a)He has done nothing to ban gay marriage -- it is a state issue. Marriage, by definition, is between man and woman.
You just had to put in that last line, didn't you? I hope marriage won't have to fit that definition for much longer.

All of your accusations border on libel as they cannot be substantiated... you merely hate the guy and will lie to try to make him look bad. (at least that's what it looks like)
Oh, the irony.

Why am I asked to swear on a Bible to tell the truth for jury duty?
You don't have to. Just common practice. This indicate that the US is a majority Christian nation, but does not indicate that it's an officially Christian nation.

They don't come out and endorse it with an official government stamp with tax-payer bought government ink, but that is only because they are prevented by the Constitution. But anyone who says they don't endorse Christianity unofficially is a few fries short of a Happy Meal.

The neocons are a secular cabal.

On holidays, which in Christianity, are rooted in Judaism, paganism, which is, unfortunately, too broad to define specifically, or even the New Testament. However, things have changed:

Christmas: Traditional Christian Holiday and still considered that by some. Now commercialized and is a true statement of owns faith in capitalism, reindeer, elves, and a mystrious chubby man.

Thanksgiving: National Holiday, in the United States, and my calender says that Canada concurs, however on the incorrect date. Something about Indian's giving the Puritans food because the climate was too harsh. No religious taint.

Halloween: All Souls and All Saints Day? All Hallows Eve? Definitely formerly Traditional Christian Holday, now also a statement of owns belief in the free market.

Valentine's Day: Statement of belief in the holiness of the free market, once a romantices traditional Catholic Feast Day, obviously celebrating St. Valentine.

New Year: Back in the days, people didn't bother keeping track of time in the winter. So, when a correct calendar was formulated, we recieved New Years. No traditional Christian taint here.

Easter: This is when Christian's acknowledge Christ's ressurection. Now, also a corporate holiday where the blessings of capitalism are evident in every basket and hollow chocolate bunny.

Protestant 52%, Roman Catholic 24%, Mormon 2%, Jewish 1%, Muslim 1%, other 10%, none 10% (2002 est.)

You don't have to. Just common practice. This indicate that the US is a majority Christian nation, but does not indicate that it's an officially Christian nation.

I know I don't have to, but I am asked to. I do ask for an alternate oath, but they look at me like I grew a second head. The government pushes christianity, as though it were the only possible choice. It doesn't force you, but it puts forth a de facto endorsement.

Did you know my brother in the army had to have a chaplains parmission to see a psychiatrist? True, he could have picked a non-christian chaplain, but for crying out loud, he's an atheist. Why should he have to have a chaplains permission to see a shrink?

Can you give me link where Bush is dictating to individuals what faith they can believe in and live by?
Can you show one link where Bush has ordered that businesses be closed and sports activities be banned on Sunday?
The President talking about his faith on a weekday morning talk show does not count as him forcing Americans to choose his religion.
Can you find the quote where Bush said that Iraq was an imminent threat? It's hard because it's not there. Yet people all over the country believe that is what he said and people all over the country believe that Iraq really was an imminent threat to our freedom. There is more than one way to endorse an idea that you want people to think.

I haven't actually seen Bush run the country based on his religion. You know he can't really right, I mean haven't you ever heard of "checks and balances". :rolleyes:

The US doesn't endorse Christianity as much as they endorse the freedom to have your own religion. One would think that that freedom would extend to the President too.


Sure it does. Don't you remember the Shrub allocating tax money to faith based "charieties"? Pat Robertson was probably first in line to get some of that.

There was even a case of employment denial in one of those "charities" because he was a homosexual

the US by definition is not a christian state. it is technically secular, thus "separation of church and state." however, there really can't be an absolute. depending on the person in charge (ie. the president), the nation's stance on religion can change.

Bush is a very devout Christian and i don't begrudge him that. i also don't begrudge him making decisions that he thinks are best for the country, albeit from a christian point of view. however, i do think he is abusing his power a bit by pushing his own religion's agendas. as president, he has a responsibility to look forward, not upward.

the US by definition is not a christian state. it is technically secular, thus "separation of church and state." however, there really can't be an absolute. depending on the person in charge (ie. the president), the nation's stance on religion can change.

Bush is a very devout Christian and i don't begrudge him that. i also don't begrudge him making decisions that he thinks are best for the country, albeit from a christian point of view. however, i do think he is abusing his power a bit by pushing his own religion's agendas. as president, he has a responsibility to look forward, not upward.
Just had an image of the president getting clotheslined.

Yes, because the most religious people are found in america.

Christianity is the main religion yes... But thanks to the constitution the government can't force it down our throats or force us to acccept it.. However thanks to the Bill of Rights, the Christians have a right to bug the hell out of the rest of us... I'm sooo very thankful I live NY, where religion is kept to thy self :) BTW: You have the freedom of religion, but the rest of us also have the freedom FROM religion...

I find it highly amusing that people will waste their time bitching about the same anti-religious crap on internet bulletin boards rather than doing something productive...say perhaps some anger management classes??
:D

Agreed. The problem came when he announced that God told him to invade Iraq. If he wasn't the most powerful man in the world it'd be funny.:(

Ah... Is he dyslexic? Reminds me of the Insomniac Dyslexic Philosopher....

He stays up all night wondering if there is a Dog...

(Oh Dear...)

__________

I have nothing against God telling him anything at all... I have nothing against him practising and proclaiming his faith...

I just hope he hasn't dragged the entire world into a modern day crusade or something...

Does the US endorse Christianity? Think about it for a second. Bush governs and runs this country based upon his religious values (banning gay marriages, speaking in the name of Jesus, and if you say there is no religious agenda in Iraq, I would have to say you're crazy... all though I may be somewhat of a conspiracy theorist:p ).

I would have to say that, yes, the US is a Christian nation, whether non-Christians like it or not. That's bullshit.

define religious agenda

:)
Yes it is and thats GOOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ah... Is he dyslexic? Reminds me of the Insomniac Dyslexic Philosopher....

He stays up all night wondering if there is a Dog...

(Oh Dear...)

__________

I have nothing against God telling him anything at all... I have nothing against him practising and proclaiming his faith...

I just hope he hasn't dragged the entire world into a modern day crusade or something...


I do believe Mr. President used the word crusade in the days after 9/11 to describe what we were about to do... Maybe thats why the arabs got all uppity...

I find it highly amusing that people will waste their time bitching about the same anti-religious crap on internet bulletin boards rather than doing something productive...say perhaps some anger management classes??
:D

...or perhaps a nice Bible study?
**ducks as various blunt objects are thrown**
:D

...or perhaps a nice Bible study?
**ducks as various blunt objects are thrown**
:D


Been there, done that.... 8 yrs of Bible study was enough to turn me away from religion for good...

hell, yes. just look at a map: christchurch, corpus christi...
they didnt put those names on there to endorse tampons.

then again, athens endorses polytheism.

Been there, done that.... 8 yrs of Bible study was enough to turn me away from religion for good...

Lighten up -- it was a joke for pete's sakes!! Sheesh!! Now run along and take your Zoloft before someone gets hurt...
:D

It was a joke!! Sheesh!! Now run along and take your Zoloft...


But seriously LOL... After 8 yrs of Catholicism.... Ya need zoloft and maybe some xanax too... Everytime you turn around your told something you did is hell worthy lol

I do believe Mr. President used the word crusade in the days after 9/11 to describe what we were about to do... Maybe thats why the arabs got all uppity...


Oh dear... I'm not all too surprised they went uppity. That's the worlds most powerful man saying he's going to go after Islamic people with the churches blessing.

Silly Mr. President...

Someone gag him... please...?

hell, yes. just look at a map: christchurch, corpus christi...
they didnt put those names on there to endorse tampons.

then again, athens endorses polytheism.

Isn't Christchurch in New Zealand?

and if you say there is no religious agenda in Iraq, I would have to say you're crazy... all though I may be somewhat of a conspiracy theorist:p ).


Can you actually prove the notion of a religious element to Iraq?

Christmas: Yes, this one is used to celebrate Christ's birth... but it was also a pagan holiday in Rome before Jesus came to be. Jesus is the reason most Americans celebrate Christmas (at least ostensibly), but there's also the secular tradition of the holiday. (in other words, Christmas may be enjoyed by Christians and non-Christians alike, for different reasons)

All right, Christmas is a Christian holiday. I'm not even going to argue that point

Thanksgiving: secular

Point to you.

halloween: secular (not sure if it's an officiall holiday)

Secular, no, Christian, only sort of. Halloween is All Saint's Day Eve, or All Hallows Eve, Hallow being holy.

valentine's day: see above entry

Again, I will concede that point, but only because I'm not sure about the origins of Valentine's Day.

new year/new year's day: secular

Nope. Considering that our year is based on a calendar created by a monk, and loosely modled after the solar year

so what's the beef with holidays?

They aren't, for the most part, secular. Therefore, not seperated.

But seriously LOL... After 8 yrs of Catholicism.... Ya need zoloft and maybe some xanax too... Everytime you turn around your told something you did is hell worthy lol

Hmmm?

*counts how many years he was in the system*

Ahm? Maybe I need a straight-jacket? :p

No.

The US Right kicks Christianity to the kerb, grinds its face against the tarmac then steals its identity and claims to have done the world a favour.

The US Left thinks the US Right is Christianity.


Sadly, this is probably the closest thing to truth spoken in this entire thread. :(

Isn't Christchurch in New Zealand?in virginia is one too.

Can you actually prove the notion of a religious element to Iraq?
There's a corolary to that one: can you prove that there isn't a religious element to the invasion of Iraq? (This is probably the only element of the war where the Busheviks won't immediately resort to talk about links to the al queda wannabe Jihadists, or freeing the poor downtrodden Shi'ite nutcases from their oppression at the hands of one of the few secular orientated dictators in that part of the world, which is a pleasant change...)

:)
Yes it is and thats GOOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So wrong...

Does the US endorse Christianity? Think about it for a second. Bush governs and runs this country based upon his religious values (banning gay marriages, speaking in the name of Jesus, and if you say there is no religious agenda in Iraq, I would have to say you're crazy... all though I may be somewhat of a conspiracy theorist:p ).

I would have to say that, yes, the US is a Christian nation, whether non-Christians like it or not. That's bullshit.


In some ways yes, in other ways there is a raducal atheist movement perpetrating some attrocities of it's own (it does happen. It's one thing to say "The government shouldn't endorse religion." unfortunately these days, many radicals take that to mean: "People shouldn't be allowed to express religion.") which give atheists and secularists a bad name too.

Oh, and if the Fundie neo-nazi's are christians, then I'm a lobster.

*clicks his pincers menacingly*

Does the U.S. endorse Christianity? Officially, no. Unofficially, it absolutely does. Contrary to popular belief however, this is NOT due to any one person or administration. Almost all of the people who started this nation as well as the subsequent immigrants were from Europe and were either Jewish or Christian with the exception of enslaved Africans who typically took on the beliefs of their masters, which ended up being Christianity/Judaism anyway. Therefore, it is no surprise that our culture and by extension, our government is influenced by Chiristian beliefs. You can pass al the laws you want, and even control the effects of this somewhat, but you can never fully erase them while still maintaining a sense of culture and tradition.

The real question is, is this a bad thing? If it gets to a point where it is blatant and causes real harm, absolutely. If it merely consists of a few idiosyncrasies, nobody needs to get worried about it. There will always be a few radicals out there, but so long as the issue doesnt get out of hand, its usually not a problem.