NationStates Jolt Archive

Welcome to the second half of the election.

Only 15 days 'til Election Night in Canada *Hockey Night in Canada theme music*

Latest polls show that we expect a Conservative minority, a seat increase for the NDP and the Blocs, and the Liberals are getting their ass kicked big time.

Btw here's a new fresh poll.

Did anybody watch the debate today? Did duceppe win like he usually does?

Did anybody watch the debate today? Did duceppe win like he usually does?Not me, it's a waste of time. Really. Instead of debating, it's going to be Martin on his knees begging voters while Harper points and laughs at him, evil laughs. Then Layton plays his guitar... singing (see video (http://www.airfarce.com/seasons/season13/051230g.wvx)), and Duceppe was like "VIVE LA QUEBEC!!!".

Considering what my old riding was back in the day when I lived in Canada. I'd probably vote liberal.

Welcome to the second half of the election.

Only 15 days 'til Election Night in Canada *Hockey Night in Canada theme music*

Latest polls show that we expect a Conservative minority, a seat increase for the NDP and the Blocs, and the Liberals are getting their ass kicked big time.

Btw here's a new fresh poll.
Way to neglect both commie parties!

If I could vote (which, unfortunately, I'll have to wait another year for) I'd be voting Conservative. Normally I'm rather left-wing, but they've run a very policy-heavy and straight forward campaign. The policies that they've proposed are sensible, even smart, wheras every other party is peddling the same old crap. That and the Liberals desperately need the boot.

If they turn out to be bad, we'll throw them out in the next election, that's all.

Way to neglect both commie parties!

It's okay. Commies are like small-retarded children. We smile at them and make them live in special rooms. We also speak in high voices.



I am such a horrible person.

Self proclaimed Canadian nationalist? Nationalist as in nationalism?

I'm sticking with my NDP vote.

I would only vote for the Liberals to keep the Evil Evil Evil Conservatives out.

I'm not going to be cowed into voting for a party I don't support out of fear of another. And I'm not going to oust the encumbents in favour of a party whose stated policy is in opposition to my heartfelt beliefs, either.

I will be voting for the NDP. Voting without fear and with low expectations of my fellows, who will invariably choose one or the other of the first two possibilities I mentioned.

But these things are said to come in threes, you know...

I would only vote for the Liberals to keep the Evil Evil Evil Conservatives out.Grrrrr, gotta hate strategic voting. I hate you... jk.

BTW, VOTE:

http://www.ndp.ca/themes/ndp/images/ndp_logo.gif

Grrrrr, gotta hate strategic voting. I hate you... jk.
The pundits (aka - talking heads) have been warning about that for some time, but, people always panic at the polls... :rolleyes:

I would only vote for the Liberals to keep the Evil Evil Evil Conservatives out.


Then vote for the liberals.

[QUOTE=The Chinese Republics]Grrrrr, gotta hate strategic voting. I hate you... jk. QUOTE]

Forgive Me. Also, I don't really like Jack Layton, and the NDP sounds a little anti-monarchy sometimes (if your an anti-monarchist, please do not respond. This is just about elections and I'm too tired to argue. Thank you.)

Then vote for the liberals.

I can't actually vote.

Well, how many elections have seen the final opinion polls pointing toward a 'last-minute spike' in popularity for the various versions of the Conservative Parties, with a resultant panic from the left, who then elect a Liberal rather than a New Democrat?

And those Liberals, man - a note for any Americans reading this: Big 'L' Liberals aren't the same as what you use the term to describe - those Big 'L' Liberals are just small-c conservatives in red ties. They certainly have it down to a science, I'll hand it to them - filch social policy from the NDP and water it down to the point of meaninglessness, then filch fiscal policy from the Tories. Trouble is, what's meant to appeal to all ends up appealing to no-one. A Liberal/NDP minority coalition is the key to changing that relationship.

Implausible situation: Bloc gives up it's seperatist roots, makes a real socialist party, in conjunction with the NDP's. I'd vote for that.

Untill that day, I'm willing to push left-wing propaganda to attack the torries.

I can't actually vote.
Join the club. I currently reside in Europe. :(

And those Liberals, man - a note for any Americans reading this: Big 'L' Liberals aren't the same as what you use the term to describe - those Big 'L' Liberals are just small-c conservatives in red ties.Exactly. However I doubt americans are aware as to what the reference to the red tie actually means.

I liked the rest of your analysis. Good post.

Implausible situation: Bloc gives up it's seperatist roots, makes a real socialist party, in conjunction with the NDP's. I'd vote for that.

Untill that day, I'm willing to push left-wing propaganda to attack the torries.
That'd be so coooooooooool

Implausible situation: Bloc gives up it's seperatist roots, makes a real socialist party, in conjunction with the NDP's. I'd vote for that.

Untill that day, I'm willing to push left-wing propaganda to attack the torries.
Trouble with the BQ and it's provincial counterpart the PQ is, they aren't actually socialist parties. Both parties are whatever you want them to be. They position themselves as regional Populist parties, and they're shameless insofar as they rely on their chameleonic tendencies to appeal to as wide a base as possible. Conservative? Why, so are we! As conservative as you'd like. Liberal? Hah, we're as liberal as it gets. Just vote for us, and we'll be whatever you want us to be.

Socialists like that we don't need, thanks all the same.

Trouble with the BQ and it's provincial counterpart the PQ is, they aren't actually socialist parties. Both parties are whatever you want them to be. They position themselves as regional Populist parties, and they're shameless insofar as they rely on their chameleonic tendencies to appeal to as wide a base as possible. Conservative? Why, so are we! As conservative as you'd like. Liberal? Hah, we're as liberal as it gets. Just vote for us, and we'll be whatever you want us to be.

Socialists like that we don't need, thanks all the same.
When the vote doesn't affect Quebec freedom, they do tend to vote quite similarly to the NDP.

Correct once again Bobs Own Pipe. In fact the BQ and PQ function as kind of a one-two jab-hook combination threatening to call a referendum every other month and using their separatist policy to slowly achieve more and more political sovereignty. Quebeqers of course have only to gain from this situation which is why they keep voting Bloc while they keep rejecting the referenda. I'm a Canadian Federalist 100% but I regret that the BQ and PQ use separatism not as a true political goal but as a cow they can milk. I have trouble looking at BQ leaders as politicians. They are a slap in the face of all canadians. That's what they are.

The Liberal attack ad must be the nastiest in this election.

http://www.liberal.ca/multimedia_e.aspx?id=70

I am not old enough this election, but I'd vote Green. I'd vote Bloc if they ran here, then when they separated, move to Quebec. Unfortunately, they don't run here.

The Liberal attack ad must be the nastiest in this election.

http://www.liberal.ca/multimedia_e.aspx?id=70

I raise you http://www.proudtobecanadian.ca/blog/index/weblog/3472/

One more thing.

http://www.nodice.ca/elections/canada/polls.php

Fucking hell, people do not trust the liberals anymore.

Canada City']Fucking hell, people do not trust the liberals anymore.Haha, true. :p

Canada City']One more thing.

http://www.nodice.ca/elections/canada/polls.php

Fucking hell, people do not trust the liberals anymore.

For good reason.

They are not the only party that has a right to hold office. The Conservatives, NDP, Green, Communist, and all the other parties have a right to hold office. Also, they are not the only party capable of governing Canada....

Canada City']One more thing.

http://www.nodice.ca/elections/canada/polls.php

Fucking hell, people do not trust the liberals anymore.
I dunno, cursorily scanning through that site's online forums would tend to disagree with your summation.

Quite the healthy debates running over there.

Thanks for the link. Good site.

I dunno, cursorily scanning through that site's online forums would tend to disagree with your summation.

Quite the healthy debates running over there.

Thanks for the link. Good site.

I'm sure this and that forum represent the overall majority of the population of two big countries, right?

Btw, am I the only person who wishes to see Belinda win a seat, just be on the seat of the opposition again? :p

Canada City']I raise you http://www.proudtobecanadian.ca/blog/index/weblog/3472/
WTF? Military presence in our cities? Soldiers with guns? I think the Liberals are very desperate for votes. It seems like the ads are full of exaggeration (eg. soldiers with guns in communities) aimed at scaring voters not to vote the for the torries and abandon the NDP, rather than telling voters that the Conservative policies are wrong. Sorry Mr. Martin, no NDP or ethnic votes this time and Raymond Chan is a full of shit.

No one seems to be disputing the fact that I said Communist were like retarded chilred. Interesting. You must all-agree with me, or at least not disagree.

No one seems to be disputing the fact that I said Communist were like retarded chilred. Interesting. You must all-agree with me, or at least not disagree.
Hadn't noticed, in all honesty. What's a chilred?

Canada City']One more thing.

http://www.nodice.ca/elections/canada/polls.php

Fucking hell, people do not trust the liberals anymore.

So is http://www.democraticspace.com/blog/

So what should we do with the other 95 seats?

Stephen Harper has a dog.

You know who else had a dog?

Hitler.

Adolf Hitler.

That's who.

Did Stephen Harper train his dog to attack racial minorities on command?

We don't know.

He's not saying.

Choose Your Canada.

Canada City']Stephen Harper has a dog.

You know who else had a dog?

Hitler.

Adolf Hitler.

That's who.

Did Stephen Harper train his dog to attack racial minorities on command?

We don't know.

He's not saying.

Choose Your Canada.
I love you.

Canada City']Stephen Harper has a dog.

You know who else had a dog?

Hitler.

Adolf Hitler.

That's who.

Did Stephen Harper train his dog to attack racial minorities on command?

We don't know.

He's not saying.

Choose Your Canada.
This reminds me of Mike Klander who compared Olivia Chow to a Chow Chow Dog. Like I mean, the Liberal Party is taking ethnic votes for granted.

See here, this ad really backedfired. Liberals, stop stealing NDP votes! End strategic voting!

BTW people, vote:

http://www.ndp.ca/themes/ndp/images/ndp_logo.gif

BTW people, vote:

http://www.ndp.ca/themes/ndp/images/ndp_logo.gif
If I didn't hate the NDP before I do now after that goddamn logo being posted so many times.

Then vote for the liberals.
Aye, aye Captain!!

Canada City']One more thing.

http://www.nodice.ca/elections/canada/polls.php

Fucking hell, people do not trust the liberals anymore.
I don't think it's a question of people not trusting the Liberals. Right after the gomery report's release the polls still indicated a strong and solid Liberal lead.

The Liberal campaign has just simply been disastrous.

WTF? Military presence in our cities? Soldiers with guns? I think the Liberals are very desperate for votes. It seems like the ads are full of exaggeration (eg. soldiers with guns in communities) aimed at scaring voters not to vote the for the torries and abandon the NDP, rather than telling voters that the Conservative policies are wrong. Sorry Mr. Martin, no NDP or ethnic votes this time and Raymond Chan is a full of shit.

I believe the last Prime Minister to put a military presence in our cities was a Liberal Prime Minister as I recall. I do agree with Trudeau's decision to do that but the liberals really should learn some history first before saying shit like that.

I don't think it's a question of people not trusting the Liberals. Right after the gomery report's release the polls still indicated a strong and solid Liberal lead.

The Liberal campaign has just simply been disastrous.

I think also it has to do with people just feeling that it is time for a change. I am Conservative but I would vote Liberals if I felt change was for the best (not that the parties are really all that different).

Argh! I deleted my post for nothing?

I hate when Jolt times out... and I had such a good one too... :(

Argh! I deleted my post for nothing?

I hate when Jolt times out... and I had such a good one too... :(

Well then you know what you have to do....

Stand up for Jolt, vote for the Conservative Party of Canada.

Stand up for Jolt, vote for the Conservative Party of Canada.


You know, I first read that as

"Stand up for a Joke, vote for the Conservative Party", and I was thinking "Wow! So true!"

:D :p

I think also it has to do with people just feeling that it is time for a change. I am Conservative but I would vote Liberals if I felt change was for the best (not that the parties are really all that different).
Ýes change of ruling parties is important and necessary from time to time.

What I find so mind-boggling is that during the American election, those Canadians that involved themselves in the debates, many are in this thread and I was one too. Now there are a few newbies here I don't know.. but the point is, all were begging our American friends not to vote for Nador because it took votes away from Kerry and they didn't want a repeat of 2000 when Gore lost so many votes to Nador and would of won the Presidency so easy had it not been for Nador.

All the people on this forum from Canada who argued in support of Kerry and don't listen to the "flip-flopper" brand that the Republicans stuck him with. We said things like "Don't be stupid, if you vote for Nador, Bush will win" And we call the Americans stupid?

Well what the hell do you think is going on here? Layton is equal to Nador, Layton is not taking votes away from Conservatives, he's taking them away from the Liberals. I mean if you had to pick between Martin or Harper, it would be an easy choice, Martin would win in a landslide! No one shares Stephen Harper's views outside of a very small minority.

Harper's Conservatives with a little more than a week left in this election have a 9 point lead in the polls. What does a 9 point lead in the polls translate to? No, not a minority government, a majority government!

So for all Layton's talk about how he will get this and that done for Canadians, he will be side-lined and there is no way in hell the Conservatives will listen to a thing that the NDP have to say, at least with the Liberals the NDP can work with them, that is as long as the NDP doesn't go like last time before the government fell and try to hijack the Health Care agenda, as no one elected Layton to be the Prime Minister. But Martin was willing to work with the NDP. In fact the Liberals and NDP have a long history of working together.

You vote NDP you might as well hand Harper a majority government on a silver platter. And if you want to accuse me of fear mongering that's fine! Because you should be scared! Look at what Bush did to America in 5 years! You won't even recognize Canada if Harper gets his grubby paws on Canada for 5 years with a majority government. Yes, I'm trying to make you afraid, because that's reality.

As for the Conservatives complaining about the Liberal's attack Ad's, well, umm, what did they expect, they've had Liberal attack Ad's out since the call of this election, Layton put his out a little over a week ago with the attacks.. it was about time the Liberals joined in to what the Conservatives and NDP were already doing, no?

You vote NDP and Harper wins a majority government, I don't want to hear a single person who voted NDP whine, bitch or complain about Harper, because you will have no one to blame but yourselves for being so naive! And we call the Americans stupid..? Gah! I'm not so sure if Canadians are any smarter at this point.

You'll kick yourself, but by then it will be too late!

CHOOSE YOUR CANADA!

What I find so mind-boggling is that during the American election, those Canadians that involved themselves in the debates, many are in this thread and I was one too. Now there are a few newbies here I don't know.. but the point is, all were begging our American friends not to vote for Nador because it took votes away from Kerry and they didn't want a repeat of 2000 when Gore lost so many votes to Nador and would of won the Presidency so easy had it not been for Nador.

All the people on this forum from Canada who argued in support of Kerry and don't listen to the "flip-flopper" brand that the Republicans stuck him with. We said things like "Don't be stupid, if you vote for Nador, Bush will win" And we call the Americans stupid?

Well what the hell do you think is going on here? Layton is equal to Nador, Layton is not taking votes away from Conservatives, he's taking them away from the Liberals. I mean if you had to pick between Martin or Harper, it would be an easy choice, Martin would win in a landslide! No one shares Stephen Harper's views outside of a very small minority.

Harper's Conservatives with a little more than a week left in this election have a 9 point lead in the polls. What does a 9 point lead in the polls translate to? No, not a minority government, a majority government!

So for all Layton's talk about how he will get this and that done for Canadians, he will be side-lined and there is no way in hell the Conservatives will listen to a thing that the NDP have to say, at least with the Liberals the NDP can work with them, that is as long as the NDP doesn't go like last time before the government fell and try to hijack the Health Care agenda, as no one elected Layton to be the Prime Minister. But Martin was willing to work with the NDP. In fact the Liberals and NDP have a long history of working together.

You vote NDP you might as well hand Harper a majority government on a silver platter. And if you want to accuse me of fear mongering that's fine! Because you should be scared! Look at what Bush did to America in 5 years! You won't even recognize Canada if Harper gets his grubby paws on Canada for 5 years with a majority government. Yes, I'm trying to make you afraid, because that's reality.

As for the Conservatives complaining about the Liberal's attack Ad's, well, umm, what did they expect, they've had Liberal attack Ad's out since the call of this election, Layton put his out a little over a week ago with the attacks.. it was about time the Liberals joined in to what the Conservatives and NDP were already doing, no?

You vote NDP and Harper wins a majority government, I don't want to hear a single person who voted NDP whine, bitch or complain about Harper, because you will have no one to blame but yourselves for being so naive! And we call the Americans stupid..? Gah! I'm not so sure if Canadians are any smarter at this point.

You'll kick yourself, but by then it will be too late!

CHOOSE YOUR CANADA!

Why are you so afraid of a Conservative victory? If that's what more Canadians want than anything else, why shouldn't they have it?

Why are you so afraid of a Conservative victory? If that's what more Canadians want than anything else, why shouldn't they have it?
Slashes in social programs
Missile shield defense participation
Budget Deficit

the majority of Canadians don't want these things and the conservative are for them. People don't want the Liberals, it seems but they are voting for an alternative that has parts of their program that are against the will of most Canadians.

@stephistan, it's Nader.

Rick Mercer for PM!

Slashes in social programs
Missile shield defense participation
Budget Deficit

the majority of Canadians don't want these things and the conservative are for them. People don't want the Liberals, it seems but they are voting for an alternative that has parts of their program that are against the will of most Canadians.

What slashes in social programmes are they planning?

I can't see anything wrong with taking part in the missile shield, all it'll do is enhance Canadian security. There will also probably be industrial benefits of some kind (workshare).

Why are you afraid of a budget deficit? There's nothing wrong with running them from time to time, just as long as they don't become unsustainable.

Why are you so afraid of a Conservative victory? If that's what more Canadians want than anything else, why shouldn't they have it?
Um...that's not her point, now is it? Steph is arguing that the left vote will be split between the Liberals and the NDP, which just may afford the Conservatives a win...not that the majority want a Tory win. I actually agree...though it's a moot point, as in my riding, the conservative candidate could crap on the street and people would still vote for him:(

We need proportional rep. All this strategic voting is anti-intuitive and anti-democratic. It's crap.

Personally, I will vote for who I believe represents me the most, and fuck the results - but then the NDP candidate in riding has a good chance. I don't know what I would do in Sinuhue's situation.

We need proportional rep. All this strategic voting is anti-intuitive and anti-democratic. It's crap.

Personally, I will vote for who I believe represents me the most, and fuck the results - but then the NDP candidate in riding has a good chance. I don't know what I would do in Sinuhue's situation.
I do. My vote won't make a difference anyway, but I'm giving it to the NDP candidate, just so they know there are some people here that support them. If we had a Green Party candidate, or hell, even a ML, I'd give them my vote. NDPs as left as it gets here.

Trouble with the BQ and it's provincial counterpart the PQ is, they aren't actually socialist parties. Both parties are whatever you want them to be. They position themselves as regional Populist parties, and they're shameless insofar as they rely on their chameleonic tendencies to appeal to as wide a base as possible. Conservative? Why, so are we! As conservative as you'd like. Liberal? Hah, we're as liberal as it gets. Just vote for us, and we'll be whatever you want us to be.

Socialists like that we don't need, thanks all the same.

Obiously, you don't know much about those two party. The BQ has been formed after the failure of Meech and to defend the interests of Quebecers, which are mostly from the left. The PQ isn't really a party, it's a coalition of separatists, people who think an sovereign Quebec would peform better. The problem is, people from the left, the center, and the right support this, and are all in the same party. When you hold people from every political view in a room, there will be surely some disagreements, don't you think?

[QUOTE]No one seems to be disputing the fact that I said Communist were like retarded chilred. Interesting. You must all-agree with me, or at least not disagree.[QUOTE]

No, for myself, I just think you're the retarded child, and I don't have any time to waste on you, which is ironical, because I just did :p

As much as I would like to say that NDP voters are preventing a Liberal win... the polls clearly show that voters are shifting from the centre to the right in Quebec for some reason. The best case scenario would be that during the last few weeks the Liberals can run a clean campaign and straighten things out.

Well what the hell do you think is going on here? Layton is equal to Nador, Layton is not taking votes away from Conservatives, he's taking them away from the Liberals. I mean if you had to pick between Martin or Harper, it would be an easy choice, Martin would win in a landslide! No one shares Stephen Harper's views outside of a very small minority.


Wait, his views are equal to a small minority, yet he is getting the majority of the votes?

You are sounding like Michael Moore when he said there was more democrats in the United States then the Republicans.


You vote NDP you might as well hand Harper a majority government on a silver platter. And if you want to accuse me of fear mongering that's fine! Because you should be scared! Look at what Bush did to America in 5 years! You won't even recognize Canada if Harper gets his grubby paws on Canada for 5 years with a majority government. Yes, I'm trying to make you afraid, because that's reality.


Ah the fearmongering. Typical defensive liberal strategy :)

So let me understand your math here for a second.

Bush = Harper ?

Someone dropped out of high school.


You vote NDP and Harper wins a majority government, I don't want to hear a single person who voted NDP whine, bitch or complain about Harper, because you will have no one to blame but yourselves for being so naive! And we call the Americans stupid..? Gah! I'm not so sure if Canadians are any smarter at this point.

If the liberals are such a great party, then they wouldn't have this problem.


Slashes in social programs


Good. I loathe social programs. Canada should NOT be a freaking nanny state. We are able to think and do things on our own, and Harper sees that.


Missile shield defense participation


This is bad because...? Oh wait, America. Yeah.


Budget Deficit


Proof?


the majority of Canadians don't want these things and the conservative are for them.


Yet they are voting for them. Enough double talk and start giving facts.

Missile shield defense participation
Canada City']This is bad because...? Oh wait, America. Yeah.Actually, why the hell we need that Missile shield defense program. Like, it's not really our problem and not our interest. I rather put my money on defending Canada's arctic rather than wasting on that missile shit for no reason. Or maybe you give me a reason and I'll think about it.

Anybody heard of this website:

http://unitetheright.ca/

As an American who took a break from the Canadian election threads, I suddenly read this today:

http://ca.today.reuters.com/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=domesticNews&storyID=2006-01-14T160431Z_01_N14181241_RTRIDST_0_CANADA-POLITICS-POLL-COL.XML

TORONTO (Reuters) - The Conservative Party held on to a comfortable lead ahead of the ruling Liberals, who edged up a point but still trailed badly heading into the final week before the January 23 election, according to a new poll on Saturday.

The Strategic Counsel poll for The Globe and Mail and CTV News showed that the Conservatives have the support of 39 percent of Canadians, with the Liberal Party at 28 percent.

The New Democratic Party, or NDP, had 16 percent support and the Bloc Quebecois, which campaigns only in the province of Quebec, had 11 percent. The poll was conducted Tuesday through Thursday.

A similar poll on Tuesday and Wednesday showed the Conservatives with 39 percent support and the Liberals at 27 percent. The NDP had 16 percent support and the Bloc had 12 percent.

Earlier this week, a Strategic Counsel poll had indicated the Conservatives were on the cusp of a majority government, on track to win 152 seats, followed by the Liberals with 74, 60 for the Bloc and 21 for the NDP.

I'm sorry, I thought that Canada was the land of liberals like Stephistan, and there weren't any Conservatives in Canada - that Conservatives were regarded as an electoral joke.

So, is Canada becoming more like the US?

I hope the Conservatives do win in Canada, because it might just show David Cameron in the UK that it is possible to win a campaign as red-in-tooth-and-claw conservatives (no pun intended), rather than just pandering to liberal opinion within the M25.

As an American who took a break from the Canadian election threads, I suddenly read this today:

http://ca.today.reuters.com/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=domesticNews&storyID=2006-01-14T160431Z_01_N14181241_RTRIDST_0_CANADA-POLITICS-POLL-COL.XML



I'm sorry, I thought that Canada was the land of liberals like Stephistan, and there weren't any Conservatives in Canada - that Conservatives were regarded as an electoral joke.

So, is Canada becoming more like the US?

the impression i get is that mainstream canada doesn't like harper or agree with his policy's, but is SO SICK of the "liberal party's culture of entitlement" that they're willing to put up with 4 or 5 years of bad government to slap martin down a peg. and frankly, i'm getting there myself. i don't think conservative economic policy is right for canada's liberal/social democratic economy. i think his foreign policy is an unfunny joke who's punchline is dead canadians in a pointless war. i think billions will be thrown away with little or no return either in "tax relief" or missile defence boondoggles, he'll work with the bloc to weaken canada federally and i think the charter of rights and freedoms would be damaged by a tory majority. and all of this is true. but i hate paul martin, and i hate the liberal government and have since the mid-ninties. they steal from me, and use the money to line the pockets of their wealthy friends, amd then they expect me to thank them for it every 4 years. for how long will canada continue to thank them. and if harper's the unfortunate price we have to pay to smack them down, maybe it's for the best long term.

"every 4 years the mice would meet to choose who'd be in charge, the white cat or the black cat. but it seemed no matter which cat the mice chose, things never got any easier. finally one radical stood up and said "say, why don't we elect mice?" - Tommy Douglas

The liberal government was complaicent in my torture, I'm a little concerned what a conservative government may be complaicent with?

I am schedueled to be doing a staff role during the elections for elections Canada (information officer on the 23rd at a polling location) so in general I should not be partisan as to be impartial.

I will say that I did not vote in the advanced polls so far, the last one is tommorow. I personally beleive in the form of government I have been drafting for the last 10 years http://here.no-ip.info/ASP/ASP.htm and the link is a begining of a shadow government of Canada facilitating the trasition to that system.

I beleive in a unified system, I think that any sane decision should be representative of everyone, and I am dead set against a party system. I largely feel that with todays technology a large majority of policy suggestions and voting can be done by automated systems if managed properly.

It is a long and complex issue, but, to say the least I wonder what is the breaking point in these groups?
For myself I think it is not overly life changing because I am fairly certain I would be branded a criminal by any of the potential governments, not because I am the criminal but because of the state of Canada.

All I know is that I can assume the 32 billion /year cut out of the budget will create some spending deficits. If it doesn't I have no idea where that money is coming from.

As per usual it seems to be nothing more then the classic liberal/conservative government.

I can't say I really have any idea what any of the above plan. the 14 years of liberal government is quite a long time.... another term would put it up to 15... or well maybe 18 or something... that is almost an entire generation.

The governments ain't workin for me that's all I know. Chances are I'm screwed regardless of the outcome because of my fundamentalist nature.

I don't agree with all of any of the parties opinions.

So I continue being self representative.

So, is Canada becoming more like the US?


Not really.

The conservatives here are much more center (even the liberals) then the Republicans of the United States. The only party that is truly left would be the NDP.


Or maybe you give me a reason and I'll think about it.


Because there is nothing wrong with defense? Canada has never been known to use it's army for other purposes besides peace keeping and helping out allies.

This is same shit the liberals pulled with their attack ad saying "Soldiers are bad and evil". Soldiers are NOT bad and there is nothing wrong about having an army. It would reduce unemployment and increase national defense. It's how you use the army is where it counts.

I don't mind the missile defense, it might be something we need later. Better safe then sorry.


i don't think conservative economic policy is right for canada's liberal/social democratic economy.


Explain.


i think his foreign policy is an unfunny joke who's punchline is dead canadians in a pointless war.


Are you red idiots still pulling that war card? He already stated that he won't go.


i think billions will be thrown away with little or no return either in "tax relief" or missile defence boondoggles


Billions have been thrown in useless programs like Gun Registry and if PM were elected, the National Child Care.


he'll work with the bloc to weaken canada federally and i think the charter of rights and freedoms would be damaged by a tory majority


I believe the government in Canada is too big and is slowly turning us into a Nanny state. The Liberals already sent a message across that soldiers are bad, Canadian parents aren't fit the job, and we are too stupid to manage our own money. The federal government will get weaker, and I'm all up for it.

As for the charter of rights, Harper already stated in the last english debate that he wouldn't mind enforcing it more.

Canada City']Not really.

The conservatives here are much more center (even the liberals) then the Republicans of the United States. The only party that is truly left would be the NDP.The Conservatives better be centrist, just hope they don't pull that Gordon Campbell shit.
Because there is nothing wrong with defense? Canada has never been known to use it's army for other purposes besides peace keeping and helping out allies.Bah! What other uses? War? Sure, save that for WWIII instead of sending them to some retarded war in Iraq.
This is same shit the liberals pulled with their attack ad saying "Soldiers are bad and evil". Soldiers are NOT bad and there is nothing wrong about having an army. It would reduce unemployment and increase national defense. It's how you use the army is where it counts.*sigh* I bet the purpose of these ads is to steal soft NDP votes so that the Liberals hold power to do some stupid shit again.
I don't mind the missile defense, it might be something we need later. Better safe then sorry.Umm, I agree but I rather put more $$$ on defending sovereignty in the arctic.
Are you red idiots still pulling that war card? He already stated that he won't go.He better keep that promise. If he don't... SMACK!!!
I believe the government in Canada is too big and is slowly turning us into a Nanny state.Nope, it's perfect. Except Liberal government too corrupted.
As for the charter of rights, Harper already stated in the last english debate that he wouldn't mind enforcing it more.Better not change the charter.

BTW, I rather give the Conservatives a test drive anyway, eventhough their views aren't good for most Canadians (eg. working families). But really, the Liberals don't deserve your vote and I rather not see the Liberal back in power again. Vote NDP people, ignore what the Liberals say, they took your vote granted.

Does anyone really think that if the Conservatives win the Liberals will help make Parliament work?

What I find so mind-boggling is that during the American election, those Canadians that involved themselves in the debates, many are in this thread and I was one too. Now there are a few newbies here I don't know.. but the point is, all were begging our American friends not to vote for Nador because it took votes away from Kerry and they didn't want a repeat of 2000 when Gore lost so many votes to Nador and would of won the Presidency so easy had it not been for Nador.

All the people on this forum from Canada who argued in support of Kerry and don't listen to the "flip-flopper" brand that the Republicans stuck him with. We said things like "Don't be stupid, if you vote for Nador, Bush will win" And we call the Americans stupid?

Well what the hell do you think is going on here? Layton is equal to Nador, Layton is not taking votes away from Conservatives, he's taking them away from the Liberals. I mean if you had to pick between Martin or Harper, it would be an easy choice, Martin would win in a landslide! No one shares Stephen Harper's views outside of a very small minority.

Harper's Conservatives with a little more than a week left in this election have a 9 point lead in the polls. What does a 9 point lead in the polls translate to? No, not a minority government, a majority government!

So for all Layton's talk about how he will get this and that done for Canadians, he will be side-lined and there is no way in hell the Conservatives will listen to a thing that the NDP have to say, at least with the Liberals the NDP can work with them, that is as long as the NDP doesn't go like last time before the government fell and try to hijack the Health Care agenda, as no one elected Layton to be the Prime Minister. But Martin was willing to work with the NDP. In fact the Liberals and NDP have a long history of working together.

You vote NDP you might as well hand Harper a majority government on a silver platter. And if you want to accuse me of fear mongering that's fine! Because you should be scared! Look at what Bush did to America in 5 years! You won't even recognize Canada if Harper gets his grubby paws on Canada for 5 years with a majority government. Yes, I'm trying to make you afraid, because that's reality.

As for the Conservatives complaining about the Liberal's attack Ad's, well, umm, what did they expect, they've had Liberal attack Ad's out since the call of this election, Layton put his out a little over a week ago with the attacks.. it was about time the Liberals joined in to what the Conservatives and NDP were already doing, no?

You vote NDP and Harper wins a majority government, I don't want to hear a single person who voted NDP whine, bitch or complain about Harper, because you will have no one to blame but yourselves for being so naive! And we call the Americans stupid..? Gah! I'm not so sure if Canadians are any smarter at this point.

You'll kick yourself, but by then it will be too late!

CHOOSE YOUR CANADA!
There are several logical flaws in your argument (though it sounds as though you're more panicked than logical at the moment, in any case). Firstly, you liken Harper to Bush, and state that his election will have similar consequences in Canada that Bush's election had in the US. What you forget is that Harper will likely form only a minority government, which is not at all similar to the Republican control of both the Presidency and Congress. Secondly, you forget that our governmental systems are not at all similar; Canada's Prime Minister has far fewer executive privileges than America's President, which means that many of Bush's initiatives would have to pass through Parliament, which would again be difficult because the Conservatives would only form a minority government. Third, you forget that Canada and the US have greatly diverging domestic and foreign policy interests and, frankly, abilities to project those interests. As the situations of the two countries are very different, even if Harper was a Bush clone, it is highly unlikely that the exact same or even similar policies would be implemented. Lastly, you state that Harper is just like George Bush while providing no evidence for such a comparison.

Does anyone really think that if the Conservatives win the Liberals will help make Parliament work?Not really. I give 35% - 48% chance that the Liberals, NDP, and the Bloc will help make parliament work through co-operation. 50% - 60% chance of the Conservative government will last for less than 9 months.

Slashes in social programs
Missile shield defense participation
Budget Deficit

the majority of Canadians don't want these things and the conservative are for them. People don't want the Liberals, it seems but they are voting for an alternative that has parts of their program that are against the will of most Canadians.
I have never heard the Conservatives or any other party say they are pro-budget deficit, nor will I ever hear such a thing, as it is politically absurd. As for slashes in social programs, whether or not that is a good thing depends on the social program.

The missile defense bit is highly misunderstood by Canadians, it seems. The plain fact is that the US is going to implement it whether we like it or not, and if they see a missile flying over Canada towards them, they'll shoot it down in our airspace whether we like it or not. Not taking part in the missile defense program is nothing more than politicking to satisfy those who dislike the US and defense spending in general; do you not think it is better to take part in a program that will involve our country's airspace with or without our permission? As far as I'm concerned, it's just plain silly not to engage in it, since it will affect Canada either way.

Um...that's not her point, now is it? Steph is arguing that the left vote will be split between the Liberals and the NDP, which just may afford the Conservatives a win...not that the majority want a Tory win. I actually agree...though it's a moot point, as in my riding, the conservative candidate could crap on the street and people would still vote for him:( Steph keeps forgetting all the ridings the Conservatives won by beating the NDP by a few hundred votes (because soft NDPers did exactly what Steph suggests and voted Liberal).

There are a number of ridings where voting Liberals allows the Conservatives win. But Stephistan will never tell you that.

Equus' Strategic Voting Guide:

NDP in -> CPC out
Oshawa, Ontario
Skeena-Bulkley Valley, BC (The NDP won it last time, but it was a close call with the CPC)
Southern Interior, BC
Vancouver Island North, BC
Palliser, Saskatchwan
Saskatoon—Humboldt, Saskatchewan
Nanaimo—Alberni, BC
New Westminster-Coquitlam, BC
Central Nova, NS



Liberals in -> CPC out (or still out, as the case may be. Good luck, Landslide Annie. You're really going to need it this time.)

Edmonton, Alta
Saint John's, Nfld
South Shore—St. Margaret's, NS
Prince Edward—Hastings, Ont
Clarington—Scugog—Uxbridge, Ont
Northumberland—Quinte West, Ont (Libs just barely beat the CPC last time)
Simcoe Grey, Ont (ditto)


The following ridings are a toss-up between the Libs and the NDP. The CPC won them last time, but if NDPers voted Lib or Libs voted NDP, the CPC would lose. Of course, these days the Libs are bleeding votes to the CPC anyway, so I'd say that Libs desperate to keep the CPC out should vote NDP. But I'm biased. ;)

Newton-North Delta, BC - This was practically a three-way tie. The Conservativs did win, and it was because 13,000 votes went to the Libs and 12,000 to the NDP.
Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam - Again, CPC won by a 1,000 votes or so because 12,000 voters went Lib, and 12,000 went to the NDP

Oh, and not to leave the Conservatives out:

If you want the Libs to lose one of the Arctic ridings, than vote NDP in the Western Arctic.

And yes, you're quite correct, I haven't listed any of the ridings where the NDP and the Libs are going head to head (*cough*Trinity-Spadina, Hamilton Mountain, Kenora...*cough*). But given the new Conservative voting surge, I don't see any CPC voters going NDP to keep the Libs out, just in case it was the wrong move.

Steph keeps forgetting all the ridings the Conservatives won by beating the NDP by a few hundred votes (because soft NDPers did exactly what Steph suggests and voted Liberal).

There are a number of ridings where voting Liberals allows the Conservatives win. But Stephistan will never tell you that.

Equus' Strategic Voting Guide:

NDP in -> CPC out
Oshawa, Ontario
Skeena-Bulkley Valley, BC (The NDP won it last time, but it was a close call with the CPC)
Southern Interior, BC
Vancouver Island North, BC
Palliser, Saskatchwan
Saskatoon—Humboldt, Saskatchewan
Nanaimo—Alberni, BC
New Westminster-Coquitlam, BC
Central Nova, NS



Liberals in -> CPC out (or still out, as the case may be. Good luck, Landslide Annie. You're really going to need it this time.)

Edmonton, Alta
Saint John's, Nfld
South Shore—St. Margaret's, NS
Prince Edward—Hastings, Ont
Clarington—Scugog—Uxbridge, Ont
Northumberland—Quinte West, Ont (Libs just barely beat the CPC last time)
Simcoe Grey, Ont (ditto)


The following ridings are a toss-up between the Libs and the NDP. The CPC won them last time, but if NDPers voted Lib or Libs voted NDP, the CPC would lose. Of course, these days the Libs are bleeding votes to the CPC anyway, so I'd say that Libs desperate to keep the CPC out should vote NDP. But I'm biased. ;)

Newton-North Delta, BC - This was practically a three-way tie. The Conservativs did win, and it was because 13,000 votes went to the Libs and 12,000 to the NDP.
Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam - Again, CPC won by a 1,000 votes or so because 12,000 voters went Lib, and 12,000 went to the NDP

Oh, and not to leave the Conservatives out:

If you want the Libs to lose one of the Arctic ridings, than vote NDP in the Western Arctic.

And yes, you're quite correct, I haven't listed any of the ridings where the NDP and the Libs are going head to head (*cough*Trinity-Spadina, Hamilton Mountain, Kenora...*cough*). But given the new Conservative voting surge, I don't see any CPC voters going NDP to keep the Libs out, just in case it was the wrong move.

Strategic voting is the dumbest idea ever......

For fuck sakes, VOTE FOR THE PARTY YOU AGREE WITH!!!!

Strategic voting is the dumbest idea ever......

For fuck sakes, VOTE FOR THE PARTY YOU AGREE WITH!!!!
Actually, I agree with you. Personally, I don't strategic vote. Although if someone doesn't have a preferred party, and only votes against another party, I have to admit that it begins to make sense.

As my current favoured party has a lot of soft supporters that go stampeding to the Liberals whenever they start to shout "The Conservatives are scary!", and Stephistan was busy trying to instigate that action, I thought I would skewer her logic by showing that 'strategically' voting Liberal without actually being aware of the circumstances in any particular riding often results in the exact opposite of what you intended.

I'm voting NDP this time.

No holding my nose while voting 'strategically' anymore. Bring the Tories on, let 'em do their worst. At least they're honest about being a bunch of small-c conservative populists. Even if they'll probably do us all more harm in office than good.

I think we periodically allow the Tories to govern us out of an abiding, nation-wide sense of masochism that I just can't explain. And I'm not gonna bother trying to work it out just now, either.

So, like I was saying a while back - these things come in threes.

Anyone have thoughts on the election to follow this one? Speculations?

What slashes in social programmes are they planning?
For one, they want to stop the planned National Child Care.

I can't see anything wrong with taking part in the missile shield, all it'll do is enhance Canadian security. There will also probably be industrial benefits of some kind (workshare).

Why are you afraid of a budget deficit? There's nothing wrong with running them from time to time, just as long as they don't become unsustainable.
You asked what the conservatives proposed that the majority of canadians didn't want. I merely provided a few answers. I never said if they are wrong or not.

And that goes for you too, [NS]Canada City.

The missile defense bit is highly misunderstood by Canadians, it seems. The plain fact is that the US is going to implement it whether we like it or not, and if they see a missile flying over Canada towards them, they'll shoot it down in our airspace whether we like it or not. Not taking part in the missile defense program is nothing more than politicking to satisfy those who dislike the US and defense spending in general; do you not think it is better to take part in a program that will involve our country's airspace with or without our permission? As far as I'm concerned, it's just plain silly not to engage in it, since it will affect Canada either way.
Idon't know about you but I fail to see the need to spend some money in something that will be built anyways (with our money or not), will be used without our consent whether we invest in it or not and in which we will have no say in it's implementation.

I remember that the US said that we would be notified after the fact and that it would be thier sole responsibility on when to fire or not. Basically, the US wanted for Canada to spend some money on their toy and we would gain nothing in return.

In fact, it was politically correct at the time to distance ourselves from the US because we showed that we were not a lapdog to the US and the US sorely needed allies at the time and we didn't want to support the US politically while they assraped us in softwood lumber (among other things).

If this poll is a true reflection of the real world, we would have an NDP majority government in a week. Obviously those players here are very socially conscientious as compared to the Real world polls.

In my riding (Stockwell Day MP), it's either Liberal or have him back for another term by voting for anyone else. :(

I just hope whoever gets in, can get some work done without all the mess that we had seen recently.

For one, they want to stop the planned National Child Care.


Thank god.

So, is Canada becoming more like the US?
I know many Canadians do not like me saying that.. but You know me.. I call it like it is.. even if you may hate me.

If there is a Nation "like the US".. Canada would be the closest thing to such an entity..

Having said that.. Canada is more social-ist than the US.
Better Helthcare, Cleaner cities..
More unemployement, More social programs, Less Crime, Less military Waste(expending), etc etc etc.

next elections? the PLC should get a slap in the face.. for all the crimes(scam/commandites) of the Jean Poutine Gov.

I know many Canadians do not like me saying that.. but You know me.. I call it like it is.. even if you may hate me.

If there is a Nation "like the US".. Canada would be the closest thing to such an entity..


Well, what about the UK?

(I'm tempted to add "You forgot Poland" as a joke too)

Well, what about the UK?the UK is not quite the same... the Culture, the traditions, the beliefs, etc, etc etc...

the UK is not quite the same... the Culture, the traditions, the beliefs, etc, etc etc...
seeing as most US pilgrims came from the UK, I'd say there are some cultural, traditionnal and faith-based similarities. Certainly, their faith is quite similar.

Not to mention their imperialistic bend, awful food (though different awful food), dislike of the french, notion that they own the english language, and so on and so forth...

Canada City']Wait, his views are equal to a small minority, yet he is getting the majority of the votes?

You have no idea what you're talking about, we have 4 main parties in Canada not including the Green party. You could win a majority government in this country technically with under 30% of the vote per riding!


Canada City']Someone dropped out of high school.

I don't know if you did or not and that's not at issue, but what is an issue is your total lack of understanding of the Canadian political process.

Canada City']Bush = Harper ?

I think that is basically an accepted view from anyone who has taken the time to read and listen to what Harper has had to say over the years. While Bush of course has more power in the world, he is Bush-lite. He shares the same "values" as Bush.

You need look no further than in 2003 when Harper wrote an op'ed article in the New York times and called not the government of Canada, but Canada herself a bunch of cowards.. yes, that's the guy we want leading us? I bloody well think not!

In the same vein one could argue Martin = Jean Chrétien ?

The answer of course is the opposition sure has made a case of trying to convince the Canadian public he is. As we all recall there is no love lost between Jean Chrétien and Paul Martin.. but the Canadian public are all to ready to make Martin pay for the sins of Jean Chrétien aren't they?

I agree that Jean Chrétien became complacent and even perhaps corrupt at the end of his tenure.. but Martin wasn't even around for it if you recall. It was Paul Martin as finance minister who has kept Canada ahead in growth of all other G8 countries.. Paul Martin is not Jean Chrétien , so stop blaming him for what he didn't do. And start giving Paul Martin credit for what he has done! This is no longer about who will win, the Conservatives are going to win, it's now about how large that win will be, and the numbers now show a Conservative majority will win. Vote Liberal before it's too late! Conservatives are now up 13 points in the national polls. Don't make the mistake our your life and not vote strategically because if you don't, we are looking at 4 to 5 years of Conservative rule. And the NDP will be left out in the cold. At least if the Liberals can get another minority, the NDP will hold the balance of power. C'mon people, please don't make this mistake.

Unemployment at a 30-year low.
Dollar up 15% since Martin took office.
Interest rates low.
Balanced budget.
Trade surplus up.
inflation down
Personal income taxes dropping.
US caving on softwood.
oh yes, and We're still not in Iraq as Harper wanted us to be.

You have no idea what you're talking about, we have 4 main parties in Canada not including the Green party. You could win a majority government in this country technically with under 30% of the vote per riding!


You're not answering my question. The polls I linked to said that it looked like the Conservatives were on their way to a win.

If Canada view Conservatives as an electoral joke, as you constantly imply, then how is this possible?

Strategic voting is the dumbest idea ever......

For fuck sakes, VOTE FOR THE PARTY YOU AGREE WITH!!!!


Philosophically, I agree with you.

Reality, however, is a different thing - but only under certain circumstances.

If the party you support has NO chance of winning your riding, then you MAY be better voting for an alternate party that is closest to your beliefs rather than facilitate a party you strongly oppose taking that riding. this, of course, is only a viable option if there is a close race between the other parties. In the current election, this may include NDP supporters voting Liberal OR, in some ridings Liberal supporters voting NDP. And hey, this might even mean a Conservative voter in some ridings voting NDP to try and keep a Liberal out of a seat if their candidate is not viable.



The aim of voting is not just to make a statement of your personal beliefs. It has a primarily purpose which is to try and put the best government you can into office. And if you can't have the guy you want in your riding, are you not better helping your second choice over someone you wish weren't on the ballot at all?

You're not answering my question. The polls I linked to said that it looked like the Conservatives were on their way to a win.

If Canada view Conservatives as an electoral joke, as you constantly imply, then how is this possible?

It has nothing to do with people wanting the conservatives in power. It has more to do with Canadians trying to punish the Liberal party for what Jean Chrétien did in his tenure.

The other parties seem to have successfully blamed Paul Martin for what Jean Chrétien did. And because no party in this country has ever held power except for the old red Tories and the Liberals, the obvious way to get the Liberals out of office is to vote Conservative.

Listen, half the people in supporting the Conservatives right now don't make the distinction that this Conservative party is not the same as the Old Conservative party. And if it was the old Conservative party or (P.C. party) I wouldn't be as worried.. because the old Conservative party were never social conservatives... and a lot of the electorate who are not political junkies don't seem to understand that.

Harper has run a smooth campaign and made sure they didn't let any bones fall out so most people are completely oblivious to what they're really voting for, they just know they are really pissed off with the Liberals.

Some even argue it's a good thing to change for the sake of change because the Liberals have held power for over 12 years now. But change for the sake of change is not a good reason.

It has nothing to do with people wanting the conservatives in power. It has more to do with Canadians trying to punish the Liberal party for what Jean Chrétien did in his tenure.

Then it looks like the Conservatives are close to getting 155 seats. They're on track for 153 - only a few required to tip the balance.

Then it looks like the Conservatives are close to getting 155 seats. They're on track for 153 - only a few required to tip the balance.


The bottom line is people confuse the parties because of names.. the old Conservatives use to be for fiscal responsibility.. but the last Conservative party to hold power was anything but, so it basically wiped out their party.. Now the Liberal party maybe called "Liberal" but they are a centrist party, the left wing party is the NDP. But this new mix of Conservatives are what use to be known as the Reform party.. which scared the crap out of most Canadians.. Canadians not unlike other countries including your own seem to have very short memories. Sad to say it, but it's true.

And yes, it is now looking like the Conservative (the old Reform party) is going to win a majority government. Keeping in mind what people fail to understand is this party has never held power.

Most of the old red Tories who stayed in politics went over to the Liberal party. These Conservatives are a brand that Canadians have never seen govern, and that is why I'm scared. Plus, I have paid attention to this Reform party turned into the New Conservative party since Preston Manning was their leader.. their main donation base at that time was from a movement called "The Heritage Front" a Canadian version of the KKK. Now they have worked for years to change their image, but their mind set has not changed.

The bottom line is people confuse the parties because of names.. the old Conservatives use to be for fiscal responsibility.. but the last Conservative party to hold power was anything but, so it basically wiped out their party.. Now the Liberal party maybe called "Liberal" but they are a centrist party, the left wing party is the NDP. But this new mix of Conservatives are what use to be known as the Reform party.. which scared the crap out of most Canadians.. Canadians not unlike other countries including your own seem to have very short memories. Sad to say it, but it's true.

And yes, it is now looking like the Conservative (the old Reform party) is going to win a majority government. Keeping in mind what people fail to understand is this party has never held power.

Most of the old red Tories who stayed in politics went over to the Liberal party. These Conservatives are a brand that Canadians have never seen govern, and that is why I'm scared. Plus, I have paid attention to this Reform party turned into the New Conservative party since Preston Manning was their leader.. their main donation base at that time was from a movement called "The Heritage Front" a Canadian version of the KKK. Now they have worked for years to change their image, but their mind set has not changed.

Your argument sounds as ill-conceived as saying during the 1990s:

"Don't elect a Republican majority, because they haven't run the country in 40 years".

I see - keep on with the same party, no matter what mistakes it makes, because it has "experience" running a country.

Sorry, I don't buy that argument. I fail to see the harm in electing a majority NDP or majority Conservative government on that basis. Point me to specific issues that would be disastrous and economy-wrecking, not to a general assertion that "experience" counts.

Your argument sounds as ill-conceived as saying during the 1990s:

"Don't elect a Republican majority, because they haven't run the country in 40 years".

I see - keep on with the same party, no matter what mistakes it makes, because it has "experience" running a country.

Sorry, I don't buy that argument. I fail to see the harm in electing a majority NDP or majority Conservative government on that basis. Point me to specific issues that would be disastrous and economy-wrecking, not to a general assertion that "experience" counts.

Well.. you're an American, so a Canadian argument probably wouldn't make sense to you. But if half the people voting in this country would just look back and remember, they would know exactly what I'm talking about. Thankfully you don't get a vote. :cool:

Well.. you're an American, so a Canadian argument probably wouldn't make sense to you. But if half the people voting in this country would just look back and remember, they would know exactly what I'm talking about. Thankfully you don't get a vote. :cool:

She's right. Remember Preston Manning? He was the effect of putting a goofy looking hood ornament on a hearse.

She's right. Remember Preston Manning? He was the effect of putting a goofy looking hood ornament on a hearse.
Then if the polls are correct, and Steph is right, then you'll have no Canada in short order.

If the polls are correct, and I'm right, a year from now there won't be a wrecked Canadian economy and a dissolving nation. More of the usual political hay, but no disasters.

Then if the polls are correct, and Steph is right, then you'll have no Canada in short order.

If the polls are correct, and I'm right, a year from now there won't be a wrecked Canadian economy and a dissolving nation. More of the usual political hay, but no disasters.

Actually, I heard that Steven Harper was planning to unleash a deadly weather machine on Toronto.

seeing as most US pilgrims came from the UK, I'd say there are some cultural, traditionnal and faith-based similarities. Certainly, their faith is quite similar.

Not to mention their imperialistic bend, awful food (though different awful food), dislike of the french, notion that they own the english language, and so on and so forth...


This notion might be applicable if The population was still composed of pilgrims..

Strangely Demographics 20% of US ancestory appears to be .. GERMAN.. the same ammount of Canadian ENGLISH ancestory while Canadian GERMAN is at 9% the US english ancestory is only cited at less than 8%....

I am slightly suprised there are 1 million native americans in Canada
While the US has around 5 million... The demograhics are all different.. but people I am assuming see immigration largely in terms of race.. AFRICA/ ASIA / EUROPE. It is all largely redundant except by those reinforcing it.

Actually the french are the Saviours of the US.. and they are enshrined in Canada in Quebec.. who hates the french..?

It's looking like a conservative minority government. If so, the fun will start with the first budget.

If the conservative budget has the required 9 billion or so for Quebec that Duceppe is asking for, Harper will still need a few more people to support it to get it through the House. Maybe the Greens? At this point, the Liberals may go for a non-confidence motion, and Layton will be glad to help, if the Liberals are willing to make a few concessions.

If it doesn't have the required 9 billion, Harper's going to need the Liberals to support his budget, which they may, as the Martin Liberals are quite fiscally conservative.

My riding has been Liberal since confederation, so I guess I can ignore Stephistan's rather shrill demonising of Harper and vote my conscience: NDP!

If Chile, Cuba, Argentina, Brasil and Bolivia can have leftist governments, why can't we?!

It's looking like a conservative minority government. If so, the fun will start with the first budget.

If the conservative budget has the required 9 billion or so for Quebec that Duceppe is asking for, Harper will still need a few more people to support it to get it through the House. Maybe the Greens? At this point, the Liberals may go for a non-confidence motion, and Layton will be glad to help, if the Liberals are willing to make a few concessions.

If it doesn't have the required 9 billion, Harper's going to need the Liberals to support his budget, which they may, as the Martin Liberals are quite fiscally conservative.

My riding has been Liberal since confederation, so I guess I can ignore Stephistan's rather shrill demonising of Harper and vote my conscience: NDP!

If Chile, Cuba, Argentina, Brasil and Bolivia can have leftist governments, why can't we?!

Which is all moot given that the latest polls put the Conservatives up 13 points from the Liberals, that doesn't equal a minority government, that equals a small but deceive majority government. And what makes my argument "shrill"? Because you don't agree with it?

Why shouldn't we have a leftist government? Well if being part of the third world is your idea of fun, then I guess nothing. :rolleyes:

And what makes my argument "shrill"? Because you don't agree with it?

No. The overbearing presence of emotion and absence of facts or backup make it shrill.

Why shouldn't we have a leftist government? Well if being part of the third world is your idea of fun, then I guess nothing. :rolleyes:

Your (somewhat condescending) argument would be correct if all leftist countries were third world countries and all third world countries are leftist.

Actually the french are the Saviours of the US.. and they are enshrined in Canada in Quebec.. who hates the french..?

Do you have any reasons to say such a racist and useless comment?!?

My motto this election is, 'anything but the Liberals'. I live in Toronto where we have the Liberals to thank for the recent spike in gun violence. In 2000 the Liberals started putting quotas on criminals in jail (where in order to save money they made an effort to get 50% of criminals onto probation from the current 40%). That is just wrong, since that does not ensure that the individual is truly rehabilitated. Then they decriminalize marijuana which of course in time leads to an increase of crime and of course crime leads to gun violence. Mr. Martin states he cares about toughening border security however in the last 18 months he has been in power he actually closed 8 RCMP border posts further helping more illegal firearms to enter the nation. The Liberals are one of the causes of the spike in gun violence of late with their revolving door prison system. If anyone disputes my information for the record feel free to message me, I have source material from different newspapers to back up my information.

All Canadians, on Jan 23rd, 2006 make sure you vote, and if you care about your country, vote NDP or Conservative, or Green, or PC. Anything but Liberal!

*sighs*

Just for your own piece of mind, vote however the Hell you want, but vote for what you know is right.

No more strategic voting. No more second-guessing. Just vote how you want to.

Wow, maybe it'll catch on. But somehow, I doubt that.

All Canadians, on Jan 23rd, 2006 make sure you vote, and if you care about your country, vote NDP or Conservative, or Green, or PC. Anything but Liberal!
I found your subliminal message!

Fortunately for us, you didn't repeat it three times so it won't stick in our head.

My motto this election is, 'anything but the Liberals'. I live in Toronto where we have the Liberals to thank for the recent spike in gun violence. In 2000 the Liberals started putting quotas on criminals in jail (where in order to save money they made an effort to get 50% of criminals onto probation from the current 40%). That is just wrong, since that does not ensure that the individual is truly rehabilitated. Then they decriminalize marijuana which of course in time leads to an increase of crime and of course crime leads to gun violence. Mr. Martin states he cares about toughening border security however in the last 18 months he has been in power he actually closed 8 RCMP border posts further helping more illegal firearms to enter the nation. The Liberals are one of the causes of the spike in gun violence of late with their revolving door prison system. If anyone disputes my information for the record feel free to message me, I have source material from different newspapers to back up my information.

All Canadians, on Jan 23rd, 2006 make sure you vote, and if you care about your country, vote NDP or Conservative, or Green, or PC. Anything but Liberal!


LMFAO!

First, the FEDERAL government has nothing to do with Provincial paroles.

Second, there is no causative proof anywhere that decriminalization of small quantitees of marijuana has any bearing on crime. Indeed, the notion is specious on it's merits. If something is no longer illegal, criminals hardly get worked up about it. Nor does pot use "lead to crime which inevitably leads to gun violence" as you so rediculiously state as fact.

No, if you want to look at real reasons for the spike in current crime on Toronto, revisit the punitive policies Harris put in place to try and make poverty as uncomfortable as possible in the misguided notion that this would compell them to magically elevate themselves from their circumstances.

The guns are symptomatic - not causative.

You have not successfully said ANYTHING that you can use to directly tie the Federal government to the current regional problems in Toronto. but then again, you probably believe that current Conservative ad that states something like "Martin hasn't done ANYTHING about crime for 12 years, and now he's promising us that it is a top concern?"

Which begs the response: Make up your mind! You bash him for his actions as Finance Minister for most of those years. Now you think he should also have been setting justice ministry policy at the same time? Because last time I checked he was NOT the Prime Minister for 12 years. But the whole Conservative campaign consists of dishonestly conflating Martin with Chretien.

Yes, it's easy to be a party that has never held power and has no record of their own to point out the deficiencies in others. It's like the armchair quarterback screaming at the coach and the players despite lacking the ability to tie their shoelaces anymore let alone play the game.



If the Conservative party rules as dishonestly as it campaigns, things are going to get very ugly very quickly if they get a majority.

If the Conservative party rules as dishonestly as it campaigns, things are going to get very ugly very quickly if they get a majority.

I think that could be said of any major political party, in Canada or the US. Conservative or not...

Which is all moot given that the latest polls put the Conservatives up 13 points from the Liberals, that doesn't equal a minority government, that equals a small but deceive majority government.
Yeesh, what polls are you looking at? Most polls have a 5-9% difference. SES (which as an political junkie you must be aware of - and which was most accurate in 2004) shows the CPC with a 7 point lead (with a 3 point margin of error) over the Libs:

LPC: 30%
CPC: 37%
NDP: 18%
BQ: 10%
Green: 4%

Also, here are a few seat projections, from various sources:

UBC Election Market (latest): Fascists 135 Crooks 88 Commies 31 Traitors 53
LISPOP (Jan 7-10): 139-84-25-60
DemocraticSpace (Jan 15): 135-82-32-59
jord.ca (Jan 10-12 Ipsos): 144-67-37-59
Trendlines (Jan 16): 141-75-31-60
ElectionPrediction.org (Jan 15): 97-77-17-51 Too close to call: 66
Loblaw Federal Election Pool (average): 130-97-22-59

As you can see, none of them are predicting a Conservative majority. Not yet, anyway.

Actually, I heard that Steven Harper was planning to unleash a deadly weather machine on Toronto.
No ,He is going to release a virus that targets stupid liberal voters:mad:

No ,He is going to release a virus that targets stupid liberal voters:mad:


Why? Is he upset that his party doesn't have a COMPLETE monopoly on stupid voters?

Sorry, I don't buy that argument. I fail to see the harm in electing a majority NDP or majority Conservative government on that basis. Point me to specific issues that would be disastrous and economy-wrecking, not to a general assertion that "experience" counts.I like you. :D

No ,He is going to release a virus that targets stupid liberal voters:mad:

Fool, I have visual proof!

http://TheDarkCanuck.yafro.com/photo/10535405

TCR, you're just as bad as Jack Layton in your shameless pluggings. ;)

I came up with a new campaign slogan for the NDP.

"Pat Robertson has come up with a recipe for age-defying pancakes. Who let this bastard near the breakfast aisle? Vote NDP." :p

Communist League candidates are Beverly Bernardo in Parkdale-High Park, Michel Prairie in Toronto Centre, and John Steele in Eglinton-Lawrence. In ridings across Canada where it is not running candidates, the Communist League calls for a vote for the New Democratic Party.

"It's better to vote for what you want, and not get it, than to vote for what you don't want, and get it."-Eugene V. Debs

Actually the french are the Saviours of the US.. and they are enshrined in Canada in Quebec.. who hates the french..?
Do you have any reasons to say such a racist and useless comment?!?


I'm confused I may have to retract this statement.

Man... if only the NDP had a stronger presence in Alberta. :(

I would like everybody discuss here:

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=464666

thanks

BTW, this thread is closing