NationStates Jolt Archive

"And, according to Iranians I trust, Osama bin Laden finally departed this world in mid-December. The al Qaeda leader died of kidney failure and was buried in Iran, where he had spent most of his time since the destruction of al Qaeda in Afghanistan. The Iranians who reported this note that this year's message in conjunction with the Muslim Haj came from his number two, Ayman al-Zawahiri, for the first time."

http://www.nationalreview.com/ledeen/ledeen200601090808.asp

So Is he dead? Will it change anything if he is?

So Is he dead? Probably not
Will it change anything if he is?Nope..

Saddam is in prison... and It changed nothing..
The up-coming sentence will not change a thing either..

Until we get a body, and DNA testing done on the body, I think we should still assume that he is alive.

Does it really matter?

He is only one man.

Find his friends, his relatives, the people that owe him money - kill them all, burn their houses to the ground.

...his relatives... kill them all, burn their houses to the ground.

All of them?

Find...his relatives
Haha, yea, like Bush will go after Bin Laden's family.

Does it really matter?

He is only one man.

Find his friends, his relatives, the people that owe him money - kill them all, burn their houses to the ground.

He's one man that got ALOT of influence. He also got LOTS of money. He comes from a wealthy family. We may have gotten most of his people, but he's crazy, not stupid. He can and probably is rebuilding his AQ structure. Also, he is the main man responsible for 9/11, so we do need to find him to bring him to justice for the 3,000 people he killed. So yea, it does matter.

Haha, yea, like Bush will go after Bin Laden's family.
Been watching a little too much Michael Moore, eh?

Been watching a little too much Michael Moore, eh?
Nope, none. They just have very powerful friends in the Saudi royal family...who are close chums with Bush.

The al Qaeda leader died of kidney failure and was buried in Iran, where he had spent most of his time since the destruction of al Qaeda in Afghanistan.
And that, kids, is why attacking Iran is veeery important for the "War on Terror"!

Note to self: Forget difference between Shi'ite and Sunni Islam...

The Iranians who reported this note that this year's message in conjunction with the Muslim Haj came from his number two, Ayman al-Zawahiri, for the first time.
He's been making statements for ages. And besides, he always was the brains of the operation - he's a lot more dangerous than Bin Laden ever was.

So Is he dead? Will it change anything if he is?
Well, the US Government needs him.
Many Americans still reckon he's the personification of the enemy, and if he gets killed, why fight on? And besides, he's the only turrist one can actually remember the name of, hey?

He's one man that got ALOT of influence. He also got LOTS of money. He comes from a wealthy family. We may have gotten most of his people, but he's crazy, not stupid. He can and probably is rebuilding his AQ structure. Also, he is the main man responsible for 9/11, so we do need to find him to bring him to justice for the 3,000 people he killed. So yea, it does matter.
Yeah and I hear Hitler is poised to relaunch the - what? Fifth? Sixth? Reich from somewhere up the Amazon.

Bogeymen, too have a shelf-life.

Bogeymen, too have a shelf-life.
Yea, once I made a big one, I mean, my nose hurt after a while, trying to get enough for the legs, but it was worth it. Anyway, it kind of rotted after a while...

Anyway, it kind of rotted after a while...
Dessicated, shurely.

Dessicated, shurely.
It's all the same to me.

All of them?
Yes, every last one of them :rolleyes: Even the ones who are going to be related to him.

Until we're allowed to beat the piss out of him in Times Square, he's still alive.

So he's dead again, eh? I've lost track of how many times he's been declared dead-usually here. Guy's starting to rival Rasputin...

So he's dead again, eh? I've lost track of how many times he's been declared dead-usually here. Guy's starting to rival Rasputin...

Except definitely more off his rocker.

Nope, none. They just have very powerful friends in the Saudi royal family...who are close chums with Bush.

His family disowned him a long time ago.

His family disowned him a long time ago.
They still visited his daughter's wedding after 9/11 I believe.

His family disowned him a long time ago.
Yes, I know that, but Deep Kimchi doesn't seem to have grasped it. He thinks we should kill all his family and burn their houses to the ground.

Does it really matter?

He is only one man.

Find his friends, his relatives, the people that owe him money - kill them all, burn their houses to the ground.

Awesome, then we'd get to burn down the White House. Osama and his friends have been supporting George Bush since his first oil buisness. He's even visited the white house and was given free transportation back to Iraq after 9/11.

Hmm, I think its possible that he's dead, but it won't change anything at all.
Also, he still has strong ties with his family and has met with them on numerous occasions. And by the way, George Bush and Osama share equal responsibility, because Bush took a vacation after the "Osama determined to strike in US soil" report was released two weeks before he did.

He's even visited the white house and was given free transportation back to Iraq after 9/11.

!!!LMAO!!!
Another tabloid writer?!

!!!LMAO!!!
Another tabloid writer?!

I think that Zukosia is confusing Osama with his family. What he's talking about did happen to the Bin Laden family, but not to Osama.

The National Review? Please.

Does it really matter?

He is only one man.

Find his friends, his relatives, the people that owe him money - kill them all, burn their houses to the ground.


Even this one?

http://men.style.com/gq/features/landing?id=content_4071

Awesome, then we'd get to burn down the White House. Osama and his friends have been supporting George Bush since his first oil buisness. He's even visited the white house and was given free transportation back to Iraq after 9/11.

Hmm, I think its possible that he's dead, but it won't change anything at all.
Also, he still has strong ties with his family and has met with them on numerous occasions. And by the way, George Bush and Osama share equal responsibility, because Bush took a vacation after the "Osama determined to strike in US soil" report was released two weeks before he did.
First: It was members of the Bin Laden family. They were taken in for interrogation (I think about two weeks) before they were flown out of the country.

Second: It was general Richard Clark who authorized this. When asked about it by the 9/11 commision, he said that he would do it again.

Third: Equal responsibility, eh? I'd say that Osama, who actually coordinated the attack, takes ALL of the blame for actually doing it, but that's just me.

Fourth: If you think that Presidents take vacations, your just stupid. Just because their not at the white doesn't mean they don't work.

Fifth: Wow. Osama wanted to attack the US. I'm sure the admin. was really surprised. Whoa, you mean New York might be a target? Again, no shit sherlock. I mean, libs are upset about the pat. act et all right now, after 9/11, much less before any "serious" threat took form in the eyes of the American people.

He probably died in a fit of laughter for the US having re-elected Bush.

Fourth: If you think that Presidents take vacations, your just stupid. Just because their not at the white doesn't mean they don't work.

So Bush's numerous expeditions to his Texas ranch to clear brush were, what, making sure there weren't any terrorists hiding on his ranch? Ooooh, shouldn't mention that- I might be called stupid.

If bin Laden is going to die in the near future, I hope that this is how it happens. Besides the unpleasantness of dying due to kidney failure, dying out in the field makes bin Laden look rather pathetic; if the US captured and executed him, he'd become a martyr, and our problems would just continue.

That's a piss poor excuse for not going after him with everything in the US military arsenal. It's not like he's the man most responsible for the murder of 3,000+ americans or anything.

Awesome, then we'd get to burn down the White House. .Independence Day
http://movies.go.com/images/movies/i/IndependenceDay_1996.jpg

That's a piss poor excuse for not going after him with everything in the US military arsenal. It's not like he's the man most responsible for the murder of 3,000+ americans or anything.

I'm a tad more concerned about preventing that from happening again than about seeking revenge. The best way to defeat terrorists is to starve them- of funds by not buying Middle Eastern oil, and of propaganda used to fill recruiting centers. Pointing at the Great Hero who Stabbed the Dragon and was Crucified for It is damn good propaganda. Recall that there were 15 hijackers on 9/11; if they manage to recruit 15 more suiciders due to propaganda from bin Laden's death, then it would seem that the US would have shot itself in the foot in a quest for revenge.

I'd rather have bin Laden dead than alive. However, the guy's on a dialysis machine; there's a good chance that he won't live much longer, if this report is false. Again, I would much rather have him die in pain and far away from any American area of jurisdiction; a quiet death isn't good propaganda for a warrior.

Probably notNope..

Saddam is in prison... and It changed nothing..
The up-coming sentence will not change a thing either..

Connection between Saddam & Bin Laden, please, or at least some kind of parallel which I must have missed?

Does it really matter?

He is only one man.

Find his friends, his relatives, the people that owe him money - kill them all, burn their houses to the ground.

I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

Your sense of morality is appalling, but its application here is hilarious.

You mean the ones that are close friends of the Bushes?

Or just the ones that the Bush administration helped leave the country before they could be questioned?

I'm a tad more concerned about preventing that from happening again than about seeking revenge. The best way to defeat terrorists is to starve them- of funds by not buying Middle Eastern oil, and of propaganda used to fill recruiting centers. Pointing at the Great Hero who Stabbed the Dragon and was Crucified for It is damn good propaganda. Recall that there were 15 hijackers on 9/11; if they manage to recruit 15 more suiciders due to propaganda from bin Laden's death, then it would seem that the US would have shot itself in the foot in a quest for revenge.

I'd rather have bin Laden dead than alive. However, the guy's on a dialysis machine; there's a good chance that he won't live much longer, if this report is false. Again, I would much rather have him die in pain and far away from any American area of jurisdiction; a quiet death isn't good propaganda for a warrior.

You win the thread.

So an op/ed write for the National Review implicates Iran in hiding Osama bin Laden.

Let me rephrase:

With a conservative itchy trigger finger aimed at Iran, a Neocon rag not fit for toilet paper stirs up hatred for Iran among the average schmucks who actually read this drivel.

What the average schmucks forget is that apparently Bush has decided he needs nobody's permission to go to war. He'll just give the order, start the war, and once we're embroiled, ask Congress for funding because "If we pull out now, we'll do more harm to Iran."

America as a whole is really, really retarded right now. I hope a national wake up happens very, very soon. Hopefully by November.

I dunno why we just don't carpet bomb the area where we think he might be hiding. Gotta give those Boeing Stratabombers something to do!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1815000/images/_1816706_bbc300bombing.jpg

Al Qaeda is beyond Osama Bin Laden these days. Killing him solves nought except for making the Americans feel better, and perhaps getting Bush out of trouble in their eyes.

I dunno why we just don't carpet bomb the area where we think he might be hiding.

Because if we're wrong - and we have been at almost every turn in this war - then a lot of innocent people die.

Because if we're wrong - and we have been at almost every turn in this war - then a lot of innocent people die.

Why would innocent people be hiding out in the caves in the mountains?

Why would innocent people be hiding out in the caves in the mountains?

Vacation? Summer home? Sight seeing? Spelunking? Getting away from it all?

Who knows? People have been living in caves for millenia. Jesus was born in a cave. Many Native American tribes lived in caves. Many people still live in caves ... even in the United States! There's even a cave on Bush's ranch in Crawford. Bears live in caves! Think of the bears!

We can't just go bombing places because it's full of caves, otherwise you can kiss New Mexico goodbye.

I'm tellin' you, Osama shaved and got a hair cut and is probably sipping tea in a cafe in Pakistan right now. The caves are a lost cause.

Vacation? Summer home? Sight seeing? Spelunking? Getting away from it all?

Who knows? People have been living in caves for millenia. Jesus was born in a cave. Many Native American tribes lived in caves. Many people still live in caves ... even in the United States! There's even a cave on Bush's ranch in Crawford. Bears live in caves! Think of the bears!

We can't just go bombing places because it's full of caves, otherwise you can kiss New Mexico goodbye.

I'm tellin' you, Osama shaved and got a hair cut and is probably sipping tea in a cafe in Pakistan right now. The caves are a lost cause.

Quite so. While on holiday in Tunisia a couple of years ago I went on a tour of the less developed areas of the country, and they have quite a few cave dwellers still living all over the place. A lot of them choose to live that way for the sake of tradition and suchlike, much like those Amish guys you have in America who don't like using anything that buzzes. Except bees. They like bees. I think. Do they like bees?

Do they like bees?

Everybody likes bees! :D

I don't like bees. :(

I don't like bees. :(
But I don't think the Amish get their honey from Wal-Mart, so I'd think they must like bees. Or at least some of them.

Everybody likes bees! :D

Until they sting you. *Bzzzz*

Osama is fricking DEAD.

Anyone ever been on dialyssis before?

Friend of mine is a severe diabetic, and was on dialysis for months.
If your kidneys shut down to the point where you must use a dialysis machine, they do not get any better.

Now everyone should listen up here....


My friend was on dialysis for about three months.....it nearly killed him.
That process takes so much out of you, its almost as if if doesnt look like its helping, it does of course, but it leaves you practically shriveled.

If Osama is alive....he is in a medical facility, or he has gotten a pancreas transplant, and Im doubting there are many places in the middle east that can provide such a fairly new and complicated surgery.

I dont think its possible to operate a dialysis machine in the bottom of some dank cave, although I may be wrong.

Therefore, unless sheltered by a wealthy government, with access to high tech medicine, Osama is assuredly deceased from kidney failure.

If the government pulls him out of thier ass.....you better check for freezer burn.

If Bin Laden is in Iran, then the Iranian government, if they knew where he was, would hunt him down and kill him.

Why?

Al-Qaeda see Shias as being unislamic for refusing to recognise a Caliph as a successor to the Prophet Mohammed that the Sunnis recognise.

It's a dispute that led to the two branches of Islam, Sunni and Shia.

Thus Al-Qaeda's thinking is why Al-Zarqawi's group is blowing up Shia mosques and Shias in Iraq, calling them 'dogs' and 'worse than Americans'.

Iran would delight in hearing of Bin Laden's demise, if true.

Al-Qaeda are a threat to Iran and Shias, and Iran arms the Shias in Iraq against not only the US-led occupation, but also Al-Zarqawi.

Secondly, there is Arab minorities in Iran who clashed with the majority Persians in recent months, and Iran has banned Al-Jazeera from Iran for stirring up terrorism and unrest in Iran. Iran don't want Bin Laden stirring it up further.

So looking at it, Bin Laden, advocate of killing Shias, in a land of predominantly Shias, would not be Bin Laden's most healthy move.

It's interesting to note that in the aftermath of September 11th 2001, Iran handed over suspected Al-Qaeda members it caught fleeing Afghanistan over to it's border, perhaps unable to get to Pakistan.

It could have led to a new co-operation between the US and Iran against a common enemy, very much like Libya, where Gadaffi has nearly been assassinated by Al-Qaeda.

But 'the axis of evil speech' killed that.

People saying Bin Laden is in Iran being hidden in Iran by Iran, I can understand people who don't understand the politics and differences in Shias and Extreme Sunnis believing that.


But the headline 'Bin Laden in Iran' could lead many to advocating war.

But so did the headline 'WMD's in Iraq'

Not much difference in headline, or the falsehood.

The best hiding place for Bin Ladin would be in the boonies of Pakistan, in the backyard of our supposed ally in the "War on Terror," Musharraf. Old Pervy can't even take, much less keep control of the Jihadists running around there not to mention it's been noted that Pakistani intelligence has been strongly connected with Al Qaeda.

It's also a bit presumptuous to assume that Bin Ladin is sulking in "a dark cave" given how vast a territory the wilds of Pakistan are. For all everyone knows, he could be sitting in a nice, modern villa out there with plenty of local support. There might even be enough modern medical amenities to keep him alive or even perform a transplant. Allah knows there's plenty of fanatics and disaffected Muslim youths out there who'd be more than willing to give their kidneys to Osama.

And since someone will inevitably bring up the point of satellite recon and bombing the shit out any Bin Ladin villa, keep in mind that Bush would risk pissing off Pervy and shooting his own foot if he does it unilaterally. And if he has the decency to inform Musharraf of his intentions, chances are even if Pervy approves of the strike someone in Pakistani intelligence would have leaked the news to Al Qaeda by then.

If Bin Laden is in Iran, then the Iranian government, if they knew where he was, would hunt him down and kill him.

Why?

Al-Qaeda see Shias as being unislamic for refusing to recognise a Caliph as a successor to the Prophet Mohammed that the Sunnis recognise.

It's a dispute that led to the two branches of Islam, Sunni and Shia.

Thus Al-Qaeda's thinking is why Al-Zarqawi's group is blowing up Shia mosques and Shias in Iraq, calling them 'dogs' and 'worse than Americans'.

Iran would delight in hearing of Bin Laden's demise, if true.

Al-Qaeda are a threat to Iran and Shias, and Iran arms the Shias in Iraq against not only the US-led occupation, but also Al-Zarqawi.


Ah, but that's way too complicated for your average American warmonger. They like things simple, you see. All their "enemies" must be in league against them, hence the "axis of evil". Religious fanatics, a secular Arab dictator and a Korean Stalinist one, all chums and in league together! Of course. Makes perfect sense, doesn't it? Likewise, the fact that bin Laden hated Saddam (whom he saw as an atheist and a socialist, bizarrely enough) doesn't mean they weren't friends now, does it?

Stop trying to confuse poor, simple minded people with things as complex as actual facts. :p

Stop trying to confuse poor, simple minded people with things as complex as actual facts. :p

*Sob*

I'll try.

Forgive me....I'm an evil-doer.

:p

Nope, none. They just have very powerful friends in the Saudi royal family...who are close chums with Bush.
Not to mention that a lot of the bin Ladens do not support Osama and have nothing to do with him. Killing them would be counterproductive. Let's just concentrate on getting rid of actual terrorists, OK?

:rolleyes:

Alright folks, this Iran = Osama is even more retarded than Saddam = Osama thing.

Anybody remember the incident where around a dozen Iranian embassy people were rounded up and shot by the taliban when they took over Kabul?

Iran is potentially an ally against pan-islamism.

Find his friends, his relatives, the people that owe him money - kill them all, burn their houses to the ground.You want to kill the entire Saudi royal family? Are you insane?

You want to kill the entire Saudi royal family? Are you insane?

The house of Saud is not that related to the Bin Ladens.

But still, killing the Saudi royal family is not an insane idea. :)

Alright folks, this Iran = Osama is even more retarded than Saddam = Osama thing.

Anybody remember the incident where around a dozen Iranian embassy people were rounded up and shot by the taliban when they took over Kabul?


They killed Iranian journalists too, if I remember right. It led to Iran lining thousands of troops on Afghanistan's border in response.


Iran is potentially an ally against pan-islamism.

The extremist Sunni View yes.


The majority of those that are muslim are peaceful, and the Koran states that killing another person is akin to killing a part of yourself, or something akin to that.

If all muslims were non-peaceful, you would know about it.

There are around 1.1 billion muslims in the world.

Haha, yea, like Bush will go after Bin Laden's family.
Yeah, right after his dad's Carlyle Group joint business functions come to an abrupt end, and when Bush agrees and professes it was a bad idea to move his extended family out of the US in the NOTAM time directly following 9/11.

Everybody likes bees! :D
Not Homer. He's afraid of dogs that shoot bees out of their mouths.

On another note (haven't seen it here yet) ...
I came across a peculiar report about considering bee antagonization for urban combat. They'd drop some hive attractants in a dispersal grenade or something like that, in an area (low wind providing) and then just loosin' some stirred skeps on 'em. I like that idea. It'd be even better to isolate the 'mones of the africanized and use them, finally some good twist to that stupid mistake.
I'll look it up.

http://www.beekeeping.com/articles/us/war_bees.htm

Actually, that's not helpful enough. I guess i'll have to return some other time.

http://www.nationalreview.com/ledeen/ledeen200601090808.asp

So Is he dead? Will it change anything if he is?

It doesn't matter whether he is dead or not. Let's say that he's dead, the US government needs him because he is the personification of the enemy (like Goldstein in "1984"). If he's dead then the government will try its hardest to hide it. That or find another.

The government isn't aware that the war on terror isn't a means to an end, but an end in itself. Without a war there is no need for the military buildup and pseudo-empire building. The war is a tool to hide Americans overall dissent on political issues. (See http://www.alternet.org/story/18395/)

Throughout the cold war defense spending was up, and you'd be a fool to believe that they hadn't built some power in congress. After the cold war, and without an enemy, the defense spending trailed off in favor of domestic spending. 9/11 gave defense contractors the chance to get their industry back and I doubt they will let spending drop significantly.

I am under the belief that the threat is magnified by the government so they can centralize power and fulfill their NWO objectives. It would explain Iraq now that Americans are coming forward and saying that they reported to the CIA before that Iraq had abandoned its nuclear, biological and chemical aspirations.