NationStates Jolt Archive

Scenario:
Gore takes office and then all of the other crap that went down in 2001 happens.
What would he have done about-
The Chinese forcing that plane down?
(That was a test by the chicoms to see what Bush was made of, IMO.)
After 9/11?
The recession that followed the dotcom bust?

Would he have been re-elected in '04?

Because Gore was veep under the previous administration, I think he would've caught a lot of hell and would have had Carter like approval ratings toward the end. Even though he lost, the Democrats actually benefited from his losing in the long term. The People wouldn't have been too happy with him or the Democrats by the time he left office.

I thought the Chinese forced the plane down because it was a spy plane which was illegally flying through their aerospace. I could be wrong though as my memories on the subject are fairly vague.

We coudl speculate all day but the majority of the country wanted Gore in because I'm sure they believed it would have been a lot like how the Clinton administration ran things as I'm sure a lot of the same people would be running the show.

There's a chance that 9/11 wouldnt have happened under Gore because the Clinton administration was specifically targetting AQ and terrorism in general. The Bush administration waved terrorism off as being unimportant.

If 9/11 did still happen, I'm sure that Gore wouldn't have attacked Iraq because he doesn't have a vendetta against Saddam like Bush does and wouldn't have pushed the CIA to come up with fautly intelligence. But I bet something still would have gotten done in Afganistan and the outcome would probably be a lot prettier than what is currently happening.

Also I believe the Gore administration would have been much more environmentally friendly than the Bush people.

If 9/11 did still happen, I'm sure that Gore wouldn't have attacked Iraq because he doesn't have a vendetta against Saddam like Bush does and wouldn't have pushed the CIA to come up with fautly intelligence. But I bet something still would have gotten done in Afganistan and the outcome would probably be a lot prettier than what is currently happening.

Also I believe the Gore administration would have been much more environmentally friendly than the Bush people.
That's about how I see it, but you can bet that the Republican talking heads and some in Congress would have been talking about impeachment if 9/11 had happened on Gore's watch. It would have started in the usual places--Coulter, Savage, Limbaugh, and then people like DeLay and Coburn in the Congress would have picked it up.

God, what a great (and at the same time quite sad & wistful, really) question.


If 9/11 did still happen, I'm sure that Gore wouldn't have attacked Iraq because he doesn't have a vendetta against Saddam like Bush does and wouldn't have pushed the CIA to come up with fautly intelligence. But I bet something still would have gotten done in Afganistan and the outcome would probably be a lot prettier than what is currently happening.

I distinctly remember him saying in a TV interview quite early on and in quite strong words that there was no connection between Saddam and Al Qaeda, hence no reason whatsoever to attack Iraq, but rather concentrate forces on the real terrorist danger in Afghanistan.
It honestly pains me to even think about that. Just imagine how much death and suffering and retaliatory terrorist acts would never have happened had the US never invaded Iraq. It boggles the mind.



Also I believe the Gore administration would have been much more environmentally friendly than the Bush people.
And a resounding YES on that one.

i don't know if Gore would have been a weak president, but...

a)Would he have cut taxes to get the economy rolling again after the dot com bust?

b)Would he have taken down Saddam? Probably not... Iraqis would still have no hope of evading the oppression of Saddam, they still would not be free or have a chance at freedom.

c)9/11 still would have happened... President Bush can't be blamed for that. But if Gore's reaction would have been one of appeasement, you can bet that terrorists would have striked again. And unless Gore came up with some heightened security measures, terrorists might have been successful again (gasp).

i don't know if Gore would have been a weak president, but...

a)Would he have cut taxes to get the economy rolling again after the dot com bust?

b)Would he have taken down Saddam? Probably not... Iraqis would still have no hope of evading the oppression of Saddam, they still would not be free or have a chance at freedom.

c)9/11 still would have happened... President Bush can't be blamed for that. But if Gore's reaction would have been one of appeasement, you can bet that terrorists would have striked again. And unless Gore came up with some heightened security measures, terrorists might have been successful again (gasp).


1) Who knows, but probably not. Cutting taxes for the rich as a way to boost the economy is bad economics anyway. It's not like rich people don't already have plenty of money to keep their families and several generations afterwards wealthy.

2) Why should Gore have concentrated on Saddam while there are many worse threats are out there to be dealth with?

3) No, you are wrong because you assume that Gore wouldn't have paid attention to terrorist threats the way the Bush admin shrugged it off, but really they were putting an anti-terrorism plan into effect at the end of the Clinton admin and were highly focused on counter-terrorism. Gore would most likely have followed up where Bush and Co. shrugged it all off.

Just imagine how much death and suffering and retaliatory terrorist acts would never have happened had the US never invaded Iraq. It boggles the mind.

...and no freedom for Iraqis... Saddam still in power, the Stalin of the Middle East... probably a half-ass job in Afghanistan, Taliban probably still in power (yes, I think Gore would have been a pussy and let terrorists relax)

finally, terrorists have not hit the US since 9/11... with Gore, I shudder to think how emboldened they might have gotten on account of his military weakness.

1) Who knows, but probably not. Cutting taxes for the rich as a way to boost the economy is bad economics anyway. It's not like rich people don't already have plenty of money to keep their families and several generations afterwards wealthy.

2) WHy should Gore have concentrated on Saddam while many worse threats are out there to be dealth with?

3) NO, you are wrong because you assume that Gore wouldn't have paid attention to terrorist threats the way the Bush admin shrugged it off, but really they were putting an anti-terrorism plan into effect at the end of the Clinton admin and were highly focused on counter-terrorism. Gore would most likely have followed up where Bush and Co. shrugged it all off.

1)My hatred of socialism aside, he cut taxes for e-v-e-r-y-o-n-e, not just the rich like lefties want you to think. And if you hurt the rich... you hurt the poor. Because the rich supply jobs, like it or not. As the great president Abe Lincoln said, "You cannot raise up the poor by bringing down the rich."

2)Saddam had to be dealt with... maybe unless you were a Sunni Iraqi.

3)If Clinton was putting in an anti-terrorism plan, I'd be surprised... since, ah, Clinton had several chances to nab or kill UBL but passed each time. How's that for anti-terrorist policy?

I thought the Chinese forced the plane down because it was a spy plane which was illegally flying through their aerospace. I could be wrong though as my memories on the subject are fairly vague.
The way it happened was that those sort of patrols had been going on throughout Clinton's term. What brought the US plane down was the Chinese military pilot, who had a reputation from buzzing US planes, clipped wings. He died as a result I think.

i don't know if Gore would have been a weak president, but...
9/11 still would have happened... President Bush can't be blamed for that. But if Gore's reaction would have been one of appeasement, you can bet that terrorists would have striked again. And unless Gore came up with some heightened security measures, terrorists might have been successful again (gasp).

Where to start, the logic or the grammar?

1)My hatred of socialism aside, he cut taxes for e-v-e-r-y-o-n-e, not just the rich like lefties want you to think. And if you hurt the rich... you hurt the poor. Because the rich supply jobs, like it or not. As the great president Abe Lincoln said, "You cannot raise up the poor by bringing down the rich."

2)Saddam had to be dealt with... maybe unless you were a Sunni Iraqi.

3)If Clinton was putting in an anti-terrorism plan, I'd be surprised... since, ah, Clinton had several chances to nab or kill UBL but passed each time. How's that for anti-terrorist policy?


1) a few dollars cut for the poor while thousands and up cut for the rich is not what I call very helpful for the economy. I certainly didn't notice any difference so what was the point? How does it help anything? It doesn't.

2) No he didn't. It wasn't the right time, nor was it the right way to go about it. There were more pressing threats. Can you tell me how many people were being killed per day under Saddam at the time of invasion?

3) Let me help you here:

http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/stories/1999/01/22/clinton.terrorism/
http://www.cnn.com/US/9607/29/clinton.terrorism/
http://www.wsws.org/articles/1999/jan1999/terr-j26.shtml

...and no freedom for Iraqis... Saddam still in power, the Stalin of the Middle East...

"Stalin of the Middle East"? Please. He's despiccable and a mass murderer - but that invasion was so unfounded and so mismanaged, I sincerely doubt its worth. Sure, there are many Iraqis who are glad to have that freedom you mention, and some may actually even have it, but I honestly believe "freeing Iraq" at this time and in this manner has very probably produced a lot more death and destruction (for years to come, even) than leaving Saddam in place would ever have. And I'm obviously not only talking Iraq either. The US government has made itself a fine little hotbed of terrorist activity where formerly there used to be practically none, plus they took away the strongman who kept it all in check and left behind anarchy.

Your country could not possibly be any more unsafe for the foreseeable future if Socks the Cat would have been president.


And all this:
...probably a half-ass job in Afghanistan, Taliban probably still in power (yes, I think Gore would have been a pussy and let terrorists relax)

finally, terrorists have not hit the US since 9/11... with Gore, I shudder to think how emboldened they might have gotten on account of his military weakness.

is pure conjecture.

Which I don't agree with in the least, since I don't think Gore "would have been a pussy" at all (obviously, also pure conjecture). No American president could have gotten away with being "militarily weak" - and no one would have wanted to, either, I'd guess. You know how guys are with the patriotism ;)

I find it hard to believe that 9/11 would have been prevented.

Sudan offered OBL on a platter 3 times and the Clinton people shrugged it off. The CIA and FBI couldn't share info. More than likely the same CIA Director, George "Slam Dunk" Tenet.
I don't think that they would have done anything militarily and treated it as a law enforcement/diplomacy issue like all of the other POTUS had since Carter. If anything, maybe a cruise missile up a camels ass, same strategy from the same people. At any rate, I doubt that there would have been much protest from the Left whether he did or didn't do anything but the folks in flyover country would still be demanding an eye for an eye.
He would have had to do something decisive before the 2002 mid-term election or become a lame duck, I'm afraid. Keep in mind that Gore would be carrying a lot baggage from the previous 8 years. All of the blame for the things that were going wrong would have been placed on him and his party. What could he have done to quiet the doubts that would have been raised?

Sudan offered OBL on a platter 3 times and the Clinton people shrugged it off.

The 9-11 Commission came to the conclusion that there had been no reliable evidence to prove Sudan ever offered Bin Ladin to Clinton (http://www.9-11commission.gov/staff_statements/staff_statement_5.pdf). And even if the offer had been genuine, back then there was no solid link connecting Bin Ladin to any crimes committed against the United States so Clinton couldn't have accepted it.

The Sudan Offered Osama myth is just another Bushevik whine that's part of their Clinton is Satan campaign to make Shrub look not so bad and incompetent as he really is.

The Chinese didn't force the plane down. Their pilot made a mistake and died as a result. The US plane had to make an emergency landing in Chinese territory, but their crew was fine and the Chinese didn't even go inside to take a look at all that sensitive equipment. I don't see these events happening different if Gore had been in the White House.

There wouldn't have been an invasion of Iraq, I don't think the Iraqi situation would have been improved, but neither would have it worsened. All the other economic stuff is very hard to say, since the economy is so free that the president has little power to really affect it. Perhaps ordering some more spending here and there would make the recession period shorter, but that's about it.

9/11 would still have happened. We simply can't know if Gore would have prepared the security services better, and if that would have been enough. But I can't see Gore not retaliating against Afganistan and not imposing new security measures. I think, however, that Gore would have used the support of the international community much more effectively, instead of just throwing it away like Bush did.

Gauthier:
Bill Clinton SAID that they did. Is he a "Bushevik" too?
http://www.infowars.com/saved%20pages/Prior_Knowledge/Clinton_let_bin_laden.htm

http://www.tupbiosystems.com/articles/sudan_bin_laden.html

EDIT: He said he did in 2002, then he said he didn't when he testified at the 9/11 hearing. Maybe he learned his lesson about lying under oath.
"President Clinton, in a February 2002 speech to the Long Island Association, said that the United States did not accept a Sudanese offer and take Bin Ladin* because there was no indictment," the Commission report says on page 480.
Scroll down to the bottom of the article and you can hear an audio tape of the speech.
http://newsmax.com/archives/ic/2004/7/22/142223.shtml

...and no freedom for Iraqis... Saddam still in power, the Stalin of the Middle East... probably a half-ass job in Afghanistan, Taliban probably still in power (yes, I think Gore would have been a pussy and let terrorists relax)
God damnit, why do you people think that you're not a real man if you're not Republican? I pity you, really I do. In every post I've seen of you today you stick to the Republican hack opinions 100%. Grow a brain, and some balls while you're at it.

Gauthier:
Bill Clinton SAID that they did. Is he a "Bushevik" too?
http://www.infowars.com/saved%20pages/Prior_Knowledge/Clinton_let_bin_laden.htm

http://www.tupbiosystems.com/articles/sudan_bin_laden.html

So Infowars and Drudge are more valid than the 9-11 Commission? Oh please. This isn't Minority Report where people can be arrested for Future Crimes. Bin Ladin wasn't proven to have attacked the U.S. then and bringing him in would have been a real public relations nightmare.

Infowars ARCHIVED THE ARTICLE FROM THE LA TIMES. You didn't even look at it or you could have easily seen the LA Times logo.

The second link was from a Drudge Report story about the article coming out in VANITY FAIR-hardly a Republican mouthpiece.

Infowars ARCHIVED THE ARTICLE FROM THE LA TIMES. You didn't even look at it or you could have easily seen the LA Times logo.

The second link was from a Drudge Report story about the article coming out in VANITY FAIR-hardly a Republican mouthpiece.

Mansoor Ijaz is a partisan hack, and again the 9-11 Commission came to the conclusion that the Sudan Offer was pure bullshit.

Just imagine how much death and suffering and retaliatory terrorist acts would never have happened had the US never invaded Iraq. It boggles the mind.

...and no freedom for Iraqis... Saddam still in power, the Stalin of the Middle East... probably a half-ass job in Afghanistan, Taliban probably still in power (yes, I think Gore would have been a pussy and let terrorists relax)

finally, terrorists have not hit the US since 9/11... with Gore, I shudder to think how emboldened they might have gotten on account of his military weakness.


What logic do you use to justify those ideas?

I mean, what brings you to those conclusions?

What past military actions has Gore been involved with, that would lead you to conclude he would make similar choices?

Unless.....gasp...youre just talking out of your ass, becuase you think you shouldnt like Gore?

Bush is a dick. Gore is a pussy. Saddam and OBL are a*****s. To f*** an a***** you need a dick. A pussy can try all it wants to f*** an a***** but it just doesn't work that way. Nuf said.

Unless.....gasp...youre just talking out of your ass, becuase you think you shouldnt like Gore?
Of course. Gore is not a Republican. As a rule, Frangland only likes Republicans.

Bush is a dick. Gore is a pussy. Saddam and OBL are a*****s. To f*** an a***** you need a dick. A pussy can try all it wants to f*** an a***** but it just doesn't work that way. Nuf said.
You don't have to use asterisks on this forum. Also, don't try and pass that shit off as an original joke!

Bush is a dick. Gore is a pussy. Saddam and OBL are a*****s. To f*** an a***** you need a dick. A pussy can try all it wants to f*** an a***** but it just doesn't work that way. Nuf said.

If only quoting Team America was a capital offense...

That was a paraphrase, not a quote. This is a quote:

"Pussies don't like dicks, because pussies get fucked by dicks. But dicks also fuck assholes: assholes that just want to shit on everything. Pussies may think they can deal with assholes their way. But the only thing that can fuck an asshole is a dick, with some balls. The problem with dicks is: they fuck too much or fuck when it isn't appropriate - and it takes a pussy to show them that. But sometimes, pussies can be so full of shit that they become assholes themselves... because pussies are an inch and half away from ass holes. I don't know much about this crazy, crazy world, but I do know this: If you don't let us fuck this asshole, we're going to have our dicks and pussies all covered in shit!"

:rolleyes:

3) Let me help you here:

http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/stories/1999/01/22/clinton.terrorism/
http://www.cnn.com/US/9607/29/clinton.terrorism/
http://www.wsws.org/articles/1999/jan1999/terr-j26.shtml


O RLY?

http://lyingliar.com/lies/clintonosama.htm

What does it matter republicans, and democrats both suck presidents are puppets they are just there to make ppl think they have the power to choose presidents.

"What if Gore had been president?"

We'd be up to our asses in terrorists and platitudes. :headbang:

Of course, there technically never was a 2001 recession since growth wasn't negative for two quarters. In addition, even after the corporate scandals and 9/11 unemployment, labor participation, and e-r ratio were still far lower than they had been under the past recession...

But, Al Gore's policy wouldn't have been much different in reality. The Republicans would still control Congress, limiting anything he could actually do. We might be in Iraq, we might not; I imagine Gore would have done the same thing Bush did in Afghanistan.

Hopefully, Gore would have put real effort in to the free-trade agreements Bush has ignored, and probably would have cut taxes during the "recession" although not as much. The surpluses would have vanished regardlesss and the Nasdaq would've been in the red from 2000-2002, so there would have been little difference between the two.

Vetalia:
I Forgot about Enron, Global Crossing, MCI, et.al.
Gore would have hit that out of the park. A Democrat president wouldn't pass up a great opportunity to sink his teeth into some "Big Business" ass. That probably would have kept his base loyal while everything else hit the fan.

1) Who knows, but probably not. Cutting taxes for the rich as a way to boost the economy is bad economics anyway. It's not like rich people don't already have plenty of money to keep their families and several generations afterwards wealthy.
Do you not know how income taxes work? Generally people who are really, really rich tend not to make much income. Rather, it is the people innovating and reinvesting etc... etc... who get hit hardest by the top tax bracket. The really rich have it holed away in so many places the govt. can't touch it. Or they're wealthy enough that getting tax lawyers to hide the money is feasible.

I view most western democracies as being virtually one party states anyways. I think the minute changes that would have occured under Gore would have been insignificant.

What past military actions has Gore been involved with, that would lead you to conclude he would make similar choices?

Somalia, Kosovo, and firing cruise missles at Iraq.

Scenario:
Gore takes office and then all of the other crap that went down in 2001 happens.
What would he have done about-
The Chinese forcing that plane down?
(That was a test by the chicoms to see what Bush was made of, IMO.)
After 9/11?

The exact same thing Bush did: sign the USA PATRIOT Act into law and invade Afghanistan.

He probably later would have turned against the USAPATAct, but we wouldn't have invaded Iraq. Bombed? Maybe. Invaded? Nope.

The recession that followed the dotcom bust?

Would he have been re-elected in '04?

Depends on how popular he was. Even Bush, with his rampant unpopularity won a victory in '04, so there's no way to say. We can guess at a man's actions, but not at how the public would have responded to them, if the '04 election cycle is any indication.

Because Gore was veep under the previous administration, I think he would've caught a lot of hell and would have had Carter like approval ratings toward the end. Even though he lost, the Democrats actually benefited from his losing in the long term. The People wouldn't have been too happy with him or the Democrats by the time he left office.

Gore's presidency would look eerily similar to President Bush's, minus the tax cuts, the invasion of Iraq, N Korean nukes, and (possibly) the implosion of the budget surplus.

What if Gore had been President? A whole lot more than 3000 dead in America, that's for sure.

What if Gore had been President? A whole lot more than 3000 dead in America, that's for sure.

Yup. Just like under Bush....

Gore's presidency would look eerily similar to President Bush's, minus the tax cuts, the invasion of Iraq, N Korean nukes, and (possibly) the implosion of the budget surplus.

Maybe it would have been a little less, but that deficit was guaranteed. There was literally no way in hell short of raising taxes that those projections would have come true simply because they were based on the idea that the stock markets would continue their climb...the Nasdaq would have to be around 22,000 right now for that to be true.

Maybe it would have been a little less, but that deficit was guaranteed. There was literally no way in hell short of raising taxes that those projections would have come true simply because they were based on the idea that the stock markets would continue their climb...the Nasdaq would have to be around 22,000 right now for that to be true.

You'll note the carefully inserted qualifier, "possibly". :p

Ravenshrike:

True.
The ultra-wealthy don't play by the same tax code as we do. They pay lobbyists and politicians to make sure of that.
Ultra wealthy people like Ted Kennedy and Jay Rockefeller go around saying tax the rich because their wealth is stuck into a trust fund that is untouchable by the government.
Of course they recieve a salary to compensate them for being on the board of numerous charitable, non-profit orgs that their trust funds help set up. Their Senate salaries just about cover their tax bill I imagine.

You'll note the carefully inserted qualifier, "possibly". :p

Actually, I think it might have been literally impossible short of a miracle. ;)

Michael Moore would be out of a job.

You know, I keep remembering things that I forgot to put into the first post. Like Clinton's pardon scandal. Anyone remember that? There definitely would have been a backlash on that which Gore could have been tainted by.

Michael Moore would be out of a job.
Not really. He's been making anti-corporation films waaay before Bush, and he'd still be doing them.
They just wouldn't be as popular as anti-corporate-sponsored-politician films.

No invasion of iraq, I imagine.

Also, we'd have a more legitimate democracy.

Most of the arguments spoken of in this thread which address the tax cuts argue about the placement of the cuts and who benefited to what extent. Is it not possible that cutting taxes in the first place was a bonehead manuver that was designed to do nothing more than boost Bush's then poor approval rating numbers? Don't take this as a knock to Bush too much, the Democrats responded to the State of the Union address in which Bush proposed his cuts by saying that the cuts were misplaced. Only economists were apalled that after finally managing to balance the buget enough to begin making a dent (albeit a small one) in the national debt the people in government were willing to cut taxes for a few baby kissing points. I acknowledge that the surplusses would not have continued into wartime (Afganistan would still have taken care of that no matter who was in office) but the tax cuts did exacerbate the budget problems and had things go from bad to worse.

I do feel that 9-11 would still have happened with either president, but Gore would have handled the International PR aspect of the post-Afgan invasion period far better. I do not feel that he would have taken the hard lines necessary to address the N. Korean and Iranian nuclear concerns as Bush did, however. Yes Bush has made no friends with his handling of those two countries, but it would have been made far worse through compromise.

As for the downed plane in China, both would have handled the situation in the only manner a U.S. president could have handled it. By not budging an inch.

In Iraq, it's a fair assessment that it is a necessary war that was justified in a dishonest way and was poorly managed. Saddam was an oppressive dictator who needed to be removed from power. There were good reasons for going to war, but those were not the reasons the American people were given. I think it likely that Gore would have stayed out of Iraq, AQ would have moved in in more force seeing it as a safer country, and the Saddam would still be oppressing the majority of his people. Even if he had gone into Iraq for the right reasons, Gore would have handled it no better than Clinton handled Somalia and Yugoslavia; half-assed and unfinished.

The U.S. Patriot Act would probably not have come into existance in such a strong form, but there would still have been some curtailment in civil liberties as was necessary after the attacks.

In summation, Bush is a moron and a jerk who went from one of the highest approval ratings in U.S. history to one of the lowest, but he's made some tough decisions in difficult times to keep the nation safe. Gore would be a far more popular president by saying the right thing and not ruffling feathers, but I do not belive we would be in as secure of a position as we currently are under his leadership. Bush is a terrible president, Gore would have been worse.

Please, like Bush was the only capable one of pointing a country out on a map and say, "Destroy that!" Had Gore of been President, he probably would've read the memo a month before the attack... He probably would've tried to stop it, unlike Bush who wanted for it to happen... Plus Bush waited nearly a month to attack... What kind of leader is that? BTW it still confuses me to think that people believe had Gore of been president we all would've been reading the Koran....

Please, like Bush was the only capable one of pointing a country out on a map and say, "Destroy that!" Had Gore of been President, he probably would've read the memo a month before the attack... He probably would've tried to stop it, unlike Bush who wanted for it to happen... Plus Bush waited nearly a month to attack... What kind of leader is that? BTW it still confuses me to think that people believe had Gore of been president we all would've been reading the Koran....
Mmmmm, smell that fresh moonbattyness. May I direct you to a site more your speed? www.democraticunderground.com

Mmmmm, smell that fresh moonbattyness. May I direct you to a site more your speed? www.democraticunderground.com

Point out where I was incorrect in what Bush did??? He didn't read the memo... He waited to defend us.... You repubs are all the same.. The party should be illegal, except for the moderates.. I like moderate republicans...

and actually my forum of choice is www.freeconservatives.com

i dont know what gore would have done, i can imagine his reaction to 9/11 might have been a whole lot more forcefull. hell, bush even called islam "religion of peace" and his government forbade the authorities to discriminate against middle eastern looking young males and search skandinavian looking grandmothers with the same vigor. bush is so caught up in political correctness, it is frightening.
i go with the saying: only nixon can go to china. had gore been president, he would really have done something and not only liberated afghanistan and iraq, he would have also gone into syria, sudan, iran and saudi arabia and he wouldnt have detainees released, but executed.Also I believe the Gore administration would have been much more environmentally friendly than the Bush people.how can a government be "environmentally friendly? by only writing their stuff on recycled paper?
in my country we just survived over six years with the greens in the government coaltion and their governments car pool got less mpg than the previous one.The Chinese didn't force the plane down.well, a chinese military plane rammed it, what better way to force a plane down?Their pilot made a mistake and died as a result.how would you know? the body of the chinese military pilot was never found and chicoms said he was dead, but who in their right mind trusts the chicoms? imo that was merely something that should give them an edge in world oppinion.The US plane had to make an emergency landing in Chinese territory, but their crew was fine and the Chinese didn't even go inside to take a look at all that sensitive equipment.apart from the fact, that the chicoms held the crew hostage for 11days.

Actually, I think it might have been literally impossible short of a miracle. ;)

Nothing's impossible. :p

Osama might walk up to Bush in the Oval Office tomorrow, both arms held in front of him, and say in NYC-accented English: "You win this time, copper!"

Just imagine how much death and suffering and retaliatory terrorist acts would never have happened had the US never invaded Iraq. It boggles the mind.

...and no freedom for Iraqis... Saddam still in power, the Stalin of the Middle East... probably a half-ass job in Afghanistan, Taliban probably still in power (yes, I think Gore would have been a pussy and let terrorists relax)

finally, terrorists have not hit the US since 9/11... with Gore, I shudder to think how emboldened they might have gotten on account of his military weakness.

I pity you, I really do. You sit in your home (which I assume is your mom's basement, though If I'm wrong I've "misunderestimated" you, to your "embetterment") frightened of a world without strict controls on your behavior, and more afraid of people casting threats from thousands of miles away than of the people who are running an ever growing police state who claim to be "protecting" you. There's a few other governments that acted the way ours does now, and every single one of them fell, and were reviled in history to boot.

apart from the fact, that the chicoms held the crew hostage for 11days.

Last I heard, they also agreed to let us have our plane back but they wouldn't let them fly it. They sent it back to us in crates. Oh, and one of the crew fried all of the electronics. I think, not sure.

"What if Gore had been president?"

We'd be up to our asses in terrorists and platitudes. :headbang:
LIke we're not already? Give me a fucking break. :headbang:

If Al Gore was president

1 The eastern states would be known as The United Islamic States of America
2 We wouldent be in Iraq
3 We would be closly Allied with France *they would still hate us*
4 We would be negotiating with bin laden often
5 Israel would be on the verge of falling apart
6 South Korea would be re-united with North Korea as a Communist State under Kim Jong Il
7 Kuwait would become a province of Iraq
8 Our economy would struggle againts serbia and the rest of former yugoslavia
9 Oil would cost over 20$ a gallon
10 Gore would definitly loose to Bush in 2004 with higher numbers then Bush Vs Kerry

well, a chinese military plane rammed it, what better way to force a plane down?
Yes, because losing one of your planes and a pilot to get one airplane on the ground and then not even take a passing glance at its interior makes so much sense. Of course, you've put is so clearly now I see how that must be what happened.

how would you know? the body of the chinese military pilot was never found and chicoms said he was dead, but who in their right mind trusts the chicoms?
This must be also true, because every single body that has been lost at sea has been recovered. All of them. I mean, it's almost impossible to lose something in the ocean. It's not like it's big. And since the uscaps also looked for it, and also came up empty, they must be lieing too. After all, it wouldn't be the first time the uscaps lie.

apart from the fact, that the chicoms held the crew hostage for 11days.
Which wasn't unreasonable, seeing that they were spying and all. After all, they were treated ok. It's nice to have a bargaining chip one in a while. It's not like the uscaps wouldn't take advantage of something like that.

If Al Gore was president

1 The eastern states would be known as The United Islamic States of America
2 We wouldent be in Iraq
3 We would be closly Allied with France *they would still hate us*
4 We would be negotiating with bin laden often
5 Israel would be on the verge of falling apart
6 South Korea would be re-united with North Korea as a Communist State under Kim Jong Il
7 Kuwait would become a province of Iraq
8 Our economy would struggle againts serbia and the rest of former yugoslavia
9 Oil would cost over 20$ a gallon
10 Gore would definitly loose to Bush in 2004 with higher numbers then Bush Vs Kerry

You forgot to mark that you were joking.

Last I heard, they also agreed to let us have our plane back but they wouldn't let them fly it. They sent it back to us in crates. Oh, and one of the crew fried all of the electronics. I think, not sure.
Yes. The entire thing was supposed to be blown (the spying systems and all that), but the thing didn't work. The airplane could have been made airworth, but the Chinese wouldn't let it take off from their base. They agreed to let US technicians to go in, dismantle it, put it on a AN-24 and send it back to the US.

The US also had to say they were sorry and pay about US$35,000 in damages. It was a good deal, they brought it down from the US$1,000,000 the Chinese originally wanted.

My personal view and that goes for John Kerry as well, LOL,
please respect my personal view as I respect your personal view.

If Al Gore was president

1 The eastern states would be known as The United Islamic States of America
2 We wouldent be in Iraq
3 We would be closly Allied with France *they would still hate us*
4 We would be negotiating with bin laden often
5 Israel would be on the verge of falling apart
6 South Korea would be re-united with North Korea as a Communist State under Kim Jong Il
7 Kuwait would become a province of Iraq
8 Our economy would struggle againts serbia and the rest of former yugoslavia
9 Oil would cost over 20$ a gallon
10 Gore would definitly loose to Bush in 2004 with higher numbers then Bush Vs Kerry

1. Thats bull and you know it. No President would ever surrender no matter what party they belong to. And for arguements sake: NO American would allow an invasion force to occupy us. If you're implying a religious take over. Bull for the same reasons...
2. You're right on that one... Besides Iraq was a mistake. Couldn't find Bin Laden, find Saddam... Not to mention, "Well he did try kill to my dad!"
3. The Trans-Atlantic Alliance would be stronger...Under Gore
4. BS, Bin Laden would've probably been caught. But Bush, isn't concerned about him anymore...
5. Israel is it's own nation. They can handle themselves. I doubt Israel would fall apart. Ya know they did fight off 6 Arab Nations alone once right?
6. Again, B/S... We've been at the DMZ for over 40 yrs... we wouldn't leave SK unless they asked us to and even then, we'd bitch and moan about it. From a strategic point of view, it's good to be there....
7. And what army would he use to get there? Can't use planes, we would've shot them down, ya know the no fly zone. His army was in poor shape after the 1st gulf war and he had no funds/means to rebuild it.
8. I think 9/11 played its hand in the economy and plus the internet bubble burst. No matter who was President. The economy would've still slagged. And I highly doubt that those countries currency, even if the US were under total mismanagement, would make or have greater value than ours.
9. Oil costs now $63/barrel. If you're implying gas would cost 20/gal, you're out of your mind. The business community would go nuts, and would put massive pressure on congress and on the president to do something. It's illogical to even ponder such things.
10. No response...

Also, just remembered the nuclear sub that rammed the Japanese fishing boat and killed a lot of people.

Disclaimer: This whole thread is either Bush-is-the-antichrist bashing or Bush apologists who are sure that Gore (Ozone man) would have been the second coming of Carter. I am neither of these. But I just had to comment on this post.

We coudl speculate all day but the majority of the country wanted Gore in ...

The majority of the country did not want Gore in office. Even if you assume that all the "hanging chads" and what not were really Gore votes, all Gore would have had was a plurality. The Green and Libertarian parties did well enough in the 2000 election that neither major party candidate could have had a majority. So whomever you believe had more real votes between Bush and Gore still had the majority of the country vote against them.

There's a chance that 9/11 wouldnt have happened under Gore because the Clinton administration was specifically targetting AQ and terrorism in general. The Bush administration waved terrorism off as being unimportant.
I call BULLSHIT on this one. OBL had been trying to hit the states for years. And the 9/11 attack plan was formulated long before Bush was even elected.
Bush may have been preoccupied with Iraq from the beginning, but Clinton was no better. And the term AQ wasn't even heard of in the west when Clinton was in office. Lets not forget that he knew exactly where OBL was, and Clinton just lobbed a few Cruise missles in his general direction and called it a day.

If 9/11 did still happen, I'm sure that Gore wouldn't have attacked Iraq because he doesn't have a vendetta against Saddam like Bush does and wouldn't have pushed the CIA to come up with fautly intelligence. But I bet something still would have gotten done in Afganistan and the outcome would probably be a lot prettier than what is currently happening.

Once again, you are close to spouting propoganda. You just about say that "Bush made the CIA make stuff up", which is the implied argument. Which is crap. And you assume that Iraq was invaded because of 9/11. Afghanistan was invaded because of 9/11. The invasion of Iraq was made easier for the american public to swallow because of terrorism, but it was a mixture of things- "unfinished business" primarily. I agree that Gore wouldn't have invaded Iraq- he would have gone along with the UN, and American relations with the world (in particular europe) would not be as strained as they are. I doubt, however, that things in Afganistan would have gone well at all. The Taliban would still be in charge, but they may have eventually promised to arrest and send us OBL, if they could "find him".
Between that and Americans still wanting someone's head for 9/11, I believe that Gore would NOT have been reelected. He would have been creamed by McCain in 2004. If McCain would have stayed out of Iraq is questionable, but he would have had a closer relationship with key allies if he chose to persue military action against Iraq or (more likely) Afghanistan.

What if Gore had been elected in 2001?


Let me put it this way... the world would be a very very very different place today. For all the right reasons.

Also, just remembered the nuclear sub that rammed the Japanese fishing boat and killed a lot of people.right, the us should have impounded that fishtrawler and captured the crew for ramming a sub.

right, the us should have impounded that fishtrawler and captured the crew for ramming a sub.

Brings up an important question; who paid for the repairs to the sub? After all the fishing boat was right on top of it....

send a bill to japan!

right, the us should have impounded that fishtrawler and captured the crew for ramming a sub.
That's right...all for the insurance money, I'm sure.

send a bill to japan!

Don't we already owe them money anyways???