NationStates Jolt Archive

Even though Ariel Sharon is going to most likely survive, he will most likely be an invalid and incapable of runing both a country and a budding political party.

Since Kadima is still at the development stage in which is needs a strong willed leader with a high profile to lead it most likely by the next Israelie election cycle the party will be effectivly dead, unless someone emerges with true leadership skills to lead Kadima to victory.

Election wise in Israel things have a tendancy to go to partys who are either extreme left or right with few centrists in-between.

But for the peace process this is a big set back, if not another nail the coffin for peace.

Kadima is not going to disintegrate. Olmert or Peres will likely take it over, and it will remain the party of "unilateral disengagement," as opposed to Peretz's negotiated settlement and Netanyahu's Greater Israel.

Policy by the ruling Israeli parties tends to actually be pretty centrist, though the rhetoric can be strongly partisan.

There is no "peace process," there is a change in tactics among the Israeli leadership, one that bodes well for those not fond of people dying (at least in the short term), but one that ultimately does not address the need for an ultimate, just solution either.

Sharon is a person who has made some progress, but he is only an individual in the machine. The process to peace has minimal momentum but at least it's moving.

Kadima is not going to disintegrate. Olmert or Peres will likely take it over, and it will remain the party of "unilateral disengagement," as opposed to Peretz's negotiated settlement and Netanyahu's Greater Israel.

Policy by the ruling Israeli parties tends to actually be pretty centrist, though the rhetoric can be strongly partisan.

There is no "peace process," there is a change in tactics among the Israeli leadership, one that bodes well for those not fond of people dying (at least in the short term), but one that ultimately does not address the need for an ultimate, just solution either.

What is the 'ultimate, just' solution?

Not flaming/looking for a fight, just interested in your thoughts :)

Elgesh']What is the 'ultimate, just' solution?

Not flaming/looking for a fight, just interested in your thoughts :)

Not my decision to make. If you are asking what I would like to see happen, a binational state along socialist lines. That has about as much a chance of happening as the Communist Party USA legitimately winning the next US presidential election.

But my opinion is irrelevant, what matters are the opinions of the Israeli and the Palestinian people, and the current consensus seems to be a two-state solution more or less along the pre-1967 borders. As a pragmatic step forward, that is what I favor.

The current process of "unilateral disengagement" leaves Palestinian voices and Palestinian needs out of the question, instead being essentially a more pragmatic attempt to maintain Israeli domination, whether directly through the occupation or indirectly through economic and political power.

The problem with the pre-1967 borders is the assumption that it will cause terrorism to stop. I can't think why it would, as there was terrorism and violence before 1967.

Or, if a bully comes up to you in the schoolyard and punches you in the face "because you won't give me your lollipop", giving him your lollipop will not stop him from punching you. It will, however, teach him that whenever he wants a lollipop, he can have one just by punching you.

What the Palis need is economic opportunity. People who are too busy making money to blow themsleves up in pizza shops will be peaceful with or without idiots signing agreements with each other.

Although I wonder what would happen if Feiglin got some seats in the Knesset.

The problem with the pre-1967 borders is the assumption that it will cause terrorism to stop. I can't think why it would, as there was terrorism and violence before 1967.

Yes; after the Naqba, there was a two-sided terrorist war between the Israeli military and Palestinian infiltrators. Casualties were proportionate to power capabilities.

A settlement where people's needs are met is likely to reduce violence and terrorism; a settlement where the Palestinians are left out will ensure that it continues.

The same logic would apply if Hamas were attempting to impose a solution upon the Israelis.

Or, if a bully comes up to you in the schoolyard and punches you in the face "because you won't give me your lollipop", giving him your lollipop will not stop him from punching you. It will, however, teach him that whenever he wants a lollipop, he can have one just by punching you.

Only it is not your lollipop, and the notion that he is the only "bully", or is even really a bully at all, is a questionable one.

What the Palis need is economic opportunity. People who are too busy making money to blow themsleves up in pizza shops will be peaceful with or without idiots signing agreements with each other.

Which will not happen under the status quo, or after "unilateral disengagement."

Although I wonder what would happen if Feiglin got some seats in the Knesset.

Not much, Moledet already has seats, and the lines adopted are not all that different.

It is good that the Insane Wing of Israeli politics, expressed by such factions, has been sidelined lately; that is perhaps the best part of Sharon's policy, and one that, unlike the other parts, be productive in the long-term in the quest towards real peace.

Even though Ariel Sharon is going to most likely survive, he will most likely be an invalid and incapable of runing both a country and a budding political party.

Since Kadima is still at the development stage in which is needs a strong willed leader with a high profile to lead it most likely by the next Israelie election cycle the party will be effectivly dead, unless someone emerges with true leadership skills to lead Kadima to victory.

Election wise in Israel things have a tendancy to go to partys who are either extreme left or right with few centrists in-between.

But for the peace process this is a big set back, if not another nail the coffin for peace.

I've heard that his right brain isn't doing so hot, but his left is. Israel will lose a good leader when he retires. When and If Benjamin Netanyahu takes the presidency, things will heat up. I did get the right character, correct? I've read some of his books on terrorism and he is good. Very good.