NationStates Jolt Archive

I'm particularly interested in the opinions of some of our more conservative, or right-winger, posters.

What do you think of Albert Einstein? Is he one of the greatest humans ever?

On a list of top humans, where would you put him? Better than Bush? Better than Reagan? Better than Friedman?

And most importantly: Why?

I'm particularly interested in the opinions of some of our more conservative, or right-winger, posters.

What do you think of Albert Einstein? Is he one of the greatest humans ever?

On a list of top humans, where would you put him? Better than Bush? Better than Reagan? Better than Friedman?

And most importantly: Why?

Why do you ask?

Why do you ask?
Well, he did very well in the "Top 10 Americans" list...yet many of the people who put him as one of the best put various left-wingers into the "10 Worst Americans" list.

Which brings me to the actual topic...how many of those people actually know what Einstein believed in and cared for.

Well, he did very well in the "Top 10 Americans" list...yet many of the people who put him as one of the best put various left-wingers into the "10 Worst Americans" list.

Which brings me to the actual topic...how many of those people actually know what Einstein believed in and cared for.

I thought he was European?

I thought he was European?
Naturalised people counted. But that's not the point.

Naturalised people counted. But that's not the point.

Oh, well then.... Sorry for getting the thread off-topic.

Back to the original question. Regardless of the mans personal politics I would say he was a good American, certainly better than Bush (but thats not too hard eh?) and as influential as Reagan to our nation.

I'm particularly interested in the opinions of some of our more conservative, or right-winger, posters.

What do you think of Albert Einstein? Is he one of the greatest humans ever?

On a list of top humans, where would you put him? Better than Bush? Better than Reagan? Better than Friedman?

And most importantly: Why?
im not an expert on einstein, but i know a thing or two more than most people (probably)
as far as physics cosmology etc, he is indeed a great person, and has ahcieved a great deal.
i also have limited respect for his religious beliefs (he was jewish, but the kind who does not believe in an interventionist god, etc.etc., i could probably know more about this, but lets just say i wouldnt bother debating against his religious beliefs)....
its his political beliefs that are of course a little more controversial.
i actually dont have a problem with many of them and agree with them(again im not the most learned here, but if someone wanted to provide me with a synopsis i would be happy to become so), for example his pacisism, and his opposition of totalitarianism: 'not to use violence in fighting for our cause, but by non-participation of anything you believe is evil.'.
although i know he was somewhat of a socialist and by some a suspected communist (though he obviously disproved of the USSR), but im not really aware of what he had actively done to support this in the united states, germany, isreal etc.
oh and also i dont agree with his zionism.

Here we go with some written material regarding Einstein's beliefs.

Why Socialism? (http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/Einstein.htm)
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals. In such an economy, the means of production are owned by society itself and are utilized in a planned fashion. A planned economy, which adjusts production to the needs of the community, would distribute the work to be done among all those able to work and would guarantee a livelihood to every man, woman, and child. The education of the individual, in addition to promoting his own innate abilities, would attempt to develop in him a sense of responsibility for his fellow-men in place of the glorification of power and success in our present society.

Albert Einstein on Pacifism (http://www.salsa.net/peace/conv/8weekconv6-4.html)

And probably my favourite quote on this collection (http://quoteworld.org/authors/albert-einstein):
He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would fully suffice. This disgrace to civilization should be done away with at once. Heroism at command, senseless brutality, and all the loathsome nonsense that goes by the name of patriotism, how violently I hate all this, how despicable and ignoble war is; I would rather be torn to shreds than be part of so base an action! It is my conviction that killing under the cloak of war is nothing but an act of murder.

Here we go with some written material regarding Einstein's beliefs.

Why Socialism? (http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/Einstein.htm)


Albert Einstein on Pacifism (http://www.salsa.net/peace/conv/8weekconv6-4.html)

And probably my favourite quote on this collection (http://quoteworld.org/authors/albert-einstein):

Wow. He really was a great person!

if in terms of 'On a list of top humans' (im presuming you dont just mean americans), he wouldnt make it to my top 20. i cant really give a list so many considerations, and i would have to balance out things like
-people with what i would consider a positive impact
-people who developed theory, philosophy, etc
-people who i admire as individuals
i would however rate him higher than bush, reagon, or probably any other american president for that matter....
milton friedman or einstien....ummmm i dont know, they contributed to society very differently, and have...improved/effected, my life and beliefs etc in different ways

Here we go with some written material regarding Einstein's beliefs.

Why Socialism?

Quote:
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals. In such an economy, the means of production are owned by society itself and are utilized in a planned fashion. A planned economy, which adjusts production to the needs of the community, would distribute the work to be done among all those able to work and would guarantee a livelihood to every man, woman, and child. The education of the individual, in addition to promoting his own innate abilities, would attempt to develop in him a sense of responsibility for his fellow-men in place of the glorification of power and success in our present society.
i dont even have to comment how i feel about this...., its simply untrue, as a planned economy assumes the ability that everything has inherent value that can be calculated, and that some sort of omniscient leader, or group has the ability to calculate this value. again though einstein is not a great person for his political beliefs, but his contributions to our understanding of the natural world are undeniable


Albert Einstein on Pacifism

And probably my favourite quote on this collection:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Albert Einstein
He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would fully suffice. This disgrace to civilization should be done away with at once. Heroism at command, senseless brutality, and all the loathsome nonsense that goes by the name of patriotism, how violently I hate all this, how despicable and ignoble war is; I would rather be torn to shreds than be part of so base an action! It is my conviction that killing under the cloak of war is nothing but an act of murder.

i like this quote a great deal, and helps him earn back in my mind alot of the admiration that went out the door with the communist thread (or somehitngl ike that)

I hate democratic socialism (or any form of collectivism), but the man was a genius in contributing to science. Then again, I'm not conservative...but still.

Obviously he was a great physicist. I don't see what bearing that has on the validity of his political beliefs however. Simply because he had an excellent grasp of physics doesn't automatically make him right about everything else. For the same reason I am utterly disinterested in what Hayek or Keynes has to say about cosmology - and I suspect if I did hear it, it would be largely rubbish.

By the same token, Wagner was undoubtedly a musical genius, but he managed to be plain wrong about almost everything else.

Einstein makes liberals look good...

Einstein makes liberals look good...


Screw that.

He was a brilliant scientist, and hated war.

I dont see the problem.

Eh. Einstein was obviously a mathematical genius; no one here denies that. To be honest, I do sympathize somewhat with his politics; while I think that he's incorrect in his claim that a democratic socialist economy would prove to be the most benificial to society, I sympathize strongly with his motives for supporting such an economy. I also agree with all his thoughts on nationalism and patriotism that I've seen; the man was an internationalist, and I consider that a good thing.

On Einstein's religion: My understanding is that, while Einstein was born to a Jewish family (remember that Jews are as much an ethnicity as a religion, with their own distinct culture and language), he personally was a deist- that is, he believed that some sort of Creator crafted the universe, but he wasn't part of any organized religion. This would put him in the same category as Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin.

Albert ?

coz' his wife should have received the Nobel Prize for the job she's had done (not Albert).
She had a real diploma, he did not had a strong cursus.
A bit like Moses and his brother... One is talking the other is working. Moses talked so well...

You asked for it !
But I'm not alons tho think Madame A. Einstein did a great job.

Good luck in your search, this is a bit of a sacred subject here.

Wow, I had no idea he was a leftist.

Wow, I had no idea he was a leftist.

Yes, he was a leftest if that is how you want to see him. But you have to take things in their proper perspective. At the point in time when he was a young man growing up and learning, thinking socialism was not a bad thing. It was considered by many to be forward thinking.

Likewise, take into consideration where he grew up and under what enviornment. Once again, having a strong opinion of socialism is certainly understandable.

Had he spent his entire life growing up in the US, I doubt he would have been the same type of man.

As a scientist, he was one of the greatest men that ever lived in his field. His advancement of physics is extremely profound. Even though some of what he put forward turned out later to be false, it still shows a strong sense of genious for him to be so far ahead of those in his field for this time period.

But I have to say I don't put him in my great men of all time list, not at all. He was brilliant, no question. But his genius was very focused in a particular area. There have been other minds throughout history that were genius in many different areas. I have to give them higher marks personally.

But the greatest compliment I can give Einstein is that he was a man of principle. He was a pacifist, he believed in peace and not war. Yet, when faced with a better understanding of nuclear physics then the common man, he wrote a letter to the President explaining that this technology can be used in war. Here we have a pacifist, going against his person beliefs, because he has a moral responsibility to at least acknowledge that other people don't share his belief.

Later in life, he became a very complicated man. The world regarded him as the most brilliant man alive, the U.S. counted itself lucky to have him in our country, and yet our FBI and other political powers of the day did not trust him because of his politics. He was a peaceful activist and you will find numerous cases where he took the initiative instead of reacting to attacks. You will find one such case where he had an interview with a newpaper and in that interview asked all academics to refust to testify before the Congressional Hearings that were ongoing at the time. Many of us know about those hearings, they were witch-hunts. I don't think he was ever called to testify, mainly because he had already publically stated he would refuse, but he went further and told others to refuse as well. Activist yes, but peaceful and pacifist.

Yes, he was a leftest if that is how you want to see him. But you have to take things in their proper perspective. At the point in time when he was a young man growing up and learning, thinking socialism was not a bad thing. It was considered by many to be forward thinking.

Likewise, take into consideration where he grew up and under what enviornment. Once again, having a strong opinion of socialism is certainly understandable.

Had he spent his entire life growing up in the US, I doubt he would have been the same type of man.

What is there about the US that magically stops people turning into socialists?

Einstein was a great man, anyone who says otherise.... I'll respectfully disagree with them:p . and Kanabia, shh, don't attack the superority complex of right-wing Americans. They tend to start frothing at the mouth and biting soon afterwards.

Einstein was a great man, anyone who says otherise.... I'll respectfully disagree with them:p . and Kanabia, shh, don't attack the superority complex of right-wing Americans. They tend to start frothing at the mouth and biting soon afterwards.

But that's the main reason why I do it. *evil grin*

But that's the main reason why I do it. *evil grin*

Aussie Aussie Aussie!:D

The greatest thing about Albert Einstein's opinions on socity, war and political topics is that he never pretended that they were ever anything other than his own opinions. In fact, he would not want people to follow his ideals mindlessly.

http://charm.physics.ucsb.edu/people/hnn/einstein_tongue.jpg

The greatest thing about Albert Einstein's opinions on socity, war and political topics is that he never pretended that they were ever anything other than his own opinions. In fact, he would not want people to follow his ideals mindlessly.


Yeah, that's a truly admirable trait.

The greatest thing about Albert Einstein's opinions on socity, war and political topics is that he never pretended that they were ever anything other than his own opinions. In fact, he would not want people to follow his ideals mindlessly.

http://charm.physics.ucsb.edu/people/hnn/einstein_tongue.jpg

*Mindlessly agrees*:p

Einstein was a great man, anyone who says otherise.... I'll respectfully disagree with them:p . and Kanabia, shh, don't attack the superority complex of right-wing Americans. They tend to start frothing at the mouth and biting soon afterwards.

*BITE*

Don't show your ignorance. Socialist thinking in the US during this time was not a popular way of thinking. It was much more common in Europe where he was born and raised.

He would have been a different person had he grown up in a different place. That is what I said.

Yes, I am an American and clearly you are a left-wing Anti-American.

*BITE*

Don't show your ignorance. Socialist thinking in the US during this time was not a popular way of thinking. It was much more common in Europe where he was born and raised.

He would have been a different person had he grown up in a different place. That is what I said.

Yes, I am an American and clearly you are a left-wing Anti-American.

What do you mean by "during this time"?

Sure, in the 50's McCarthyism took its toll, but in the late-30s and 40s it was still fairly strong from what I understand (though I don't pretend to be an expert in US political history).

*BITE*

Don't show your ignorance. Socialist thinking in the US during this time was not a popular way of thinking. It was much more common in Europe where he was born and raised.

He would have been a different person had he grown up in a different place. That is what I said.

Yes, I am an American and clearly you are a left-wing Anti-American.

I'm anti-USA, not american. I like the Canadians and I am neutral to the Mexicans.

[EDIT: Oh and ignorant? I'd wager I know a little more than you mate.]

Incredibly, the political views of a pacifist who died fifty years ago continue to inspire trans-Atlantic hostility to this day. Though I'm sure he would at least be glad it was only verbal.

I may not know much about Einstein but the pacifist statement is utter rubbish you would of thought Einstein would understand Hitler must be stopped instead of running across the Atlantic leaving Germans to there fate (though how much could have been done is debatable but it’s the same thing as someone who didn’t leave trenches)

Also his idea of war is utter nonsense and basically revolves around letting a man burn your house down and kill your family without moving a muscle

A great physicist he may have been I would still spit on his face for pissing on the lessons learnt from WWII

Note: I am centrist leaning left

I firmly believe that many important historical figures that consider themselves as leftists but not communists are in fact Centrist liberals. Men that have dealt directly and seen the horrors of Nazism and fascist nationalism. Men like Einstein, Orwell and Kundera. They tend to interpret things as black and white so the natural response for them was socialism or social democracy. I for one interpret Einstein's view on the people owning the means of production clearly as if he was trying to say that they should be denationalised and owned "by society itself". Id est private ownership and subjection to the market based economy furthering a system "which adjusts production to the needs of the community, would distribute the work to be done among all those able to work ".

I personally share many of Orwell's and Einstein's social concerns, like supporting education and fighting poverty and social injustice. That doesn't make me a social democrat at all, and I feel that many of apparently socialist figures of the 40's 50's or more recently from eastern europe's fall of the communist bloq, were truly centrist liberal democrats.

I may not know much about Einstein but the pacifist statement is utter rubbish you would of thought Einstein would understand Hitler must be stopped instead of running across the Atlantic leaving Germans to there fate (though how much could have been done is debatable but it’s the same thing as someone who didn’t leave trenches).Considering he was a Jew in Nazi Germany no it is not debatable and no it is not the same thing as someone who leaves a trench.

I think that Einstein was a brilliant man. But I do not beleive he was Omniscient. As a matter of fact one of his greatest mistakes (ERP) is a fundamental part of modern physics. I enjoy Wagner and I think he was a great composer but I realize that he was completely wrong in being an anti-semite. Einstein was at the top of his feild but this does not convey any particular expertice in other areas. Lance Armstrong is a world champion bcyclist but I don't want him performing heart surgery. I can't even say that Eienstein was more brilliant than Newton but that does'nt give me any desire to adhere to Newton's theological theories....

Einstein was a great man. He contributed vastly to physics. He was a socialist, and he helped bring about victory for the Allies in WW2.

He was a funny guy too! (http://charm.physics.ucsb.edu/people/hnn/einstein_tongue.jpg)

I don't agree with his doctrinaire pacifism, but nobody's perfect.

What is there about the US that magically stops people turning into socialists?
Their individualist culture.

His choice of hairstyle was interesting and he was a playful fellow. IT sucks he refused medical care at his death.

I admire Albert Einstein - both as a scientist and as a man.

Another thing about politics - Einstein supported the idea of a world government (an idea I also support). Figured this would take care of war.

Had Einstein been born in the US... I'm not sure. Probably would have had a happier childhood.

Einstein was a brilliant man, and one of the most kind and understanding the world has ever seen. He was a pacifist by heart, but knew that the Nazis needed to be stopped, and thus advocated war against them. Anyone that calls this hypocracy must remember that he knew of the horrors of nazi germany, and as such, he knew that if we did not support the allies and Russia, the Nazis would spread nazism and kill even more people than they did, and that the monster that was Adolf Hitler would not stop killing the innocent until he, himself, was killed.

For the person that said that you can burn his house down and kill his family without him moving a muscle, you're an idiot. You need to stop being such a materialist and understand that by taking out revenge on others, you are no better than they are. War is not the answer except in extreme cases, such as WWII. Since then, the first Iraq war was the only justified war fought by the U.S. Does this mean that i do not support the troops? Of course not. I support them to the utmost. But i do not support this war nor this president.

Back to Einstein, he was a great man and if there were more like him, the world would be a much better place.

And for those that do not believe in pacifism, explain to me why Ghandi was successful in driving the British out of India without firing a single shot or killing a single Brit. This is what Einstein believed in as well, and his philosophies should be harboured and preached much more often in this world of violence and hate.

You know silicon is brilliant stuff. Absolutely brilliant and we owe so much of our modern technology and even the ability to have this conversation to silicon. I say we start building our bridges and aeroplanes out of silicon!

Britain left india because it was bankrupt after the war. Too lazy to find sources, meh I say.

coz' his wife should have received the Nobel Prize for the job she's had done (not Albert).
Which one?

Einstein is one of the coolest guys ever, He started the cliche scientist look.

What would scientists look like if Einstein wasnt around. -They would look like Niels Bohr thats what!

http://img389.imageshack.us/img389/7466/bohr2cn.jpg

VS

http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/1787/einstein5jr.jpg