NationStates Jolt Archive

I saw the same thread on the VBulletin Boards created by my friend, and I decided to bring it here. The thread on the VBulletin Board got a lot of feedback.

Well, anyway,

I challenge all Athiests/Agnostics (this challenge is, ofcourse, optional) to choose to practice any officially recognized major religions of the World for one week straight, without violating any rules of that Religion, and notice any difference in their lives.

The Religions you may choose from are -

Christianity
Judaism
Islam
Hinduism
Buddhism
Shinto
Jainism
Baha'i Faith
Zoroastrianism
Paganism
Polythieism

--

I know there are many other religions out there, but since these are the Major ones, I decided to best put them in here.

So all you Athiests and Agnostics! Choose one of the Religions above, any Branch, and practice it for one week and state it here if you noticed a positive effect or a negative effect.

Try it! It will be a good challenge to undertake, and I am sure it will be fun.

No, thank you. I waste my time on the Internet, not on religious mumbojumbo.

Almost no one practices their own religion without breaking a few of its rules. As a matter of fact the youth group in my high school was caught planning a sex party complete with drugs and all. Nonetheless, I would try Islam.

Hmm, looking at your list.... wouldn't it take a week just to learn the rules of some of these religions? Heck, ever seen the size of Catechism of the Catholic Faith?

So all you Athiests and Agnostics! Choose one of the Religions above, any Branch, and practice it for one week and state it here if you noticed a positive effect or a negative effect.

Considering that the people who would agree to this "challenge" are likely to be cynical about faith in general, do you think that one week is enough time for anyone to get a perspective on any of the faiths you mentioned?

Well, it's a fun challenge. Also, since most of us have the basic knowledge of the religions (the Major Ones, atleast), you all should try them out.

Otherwise, just go to www.religioustolerance.com and search the religions up.

EDIT - I didn't say start tomorrow, but start after you have done the research of the religion you want to practice to your heart's content.

As a matter of fact the youth group in my high school was caught planning a sex party complete with drugs and all.

I see Refused Party Program live on in spirit!

If being a practising Christian had been a positive influence on me, I wouldn't have become an agnostic one.

But aside from that. What point is there to it? Doing some rites and rituals you don't believe in? Might be fun, might be positive, but it won't make you believe in the reason for which other people do it.

The point is like an experiment.

Although you may not believe in it, just try to, you will know the true nature of practicing religion(s) by experience than without second-hand resources and your own unexperienced opinions.

Been there done that. I am/was an RC. Even considered the Priesthood at one time.

Christianity
Done it already.

Islam
Done it already.

Buddhism
Done it already

I've come to my own conclusions. I challenge YOU to practice Gravitarianism. We worship gravity for keeping us safely on the ground.

The experiment seems a bit pointless. I believe in God but I break far too many Islamic rules here and there. I don't pray everyday (or much for that matter, last time was back in the 90's), and I don't eat Halal food (But I hate pork anyway, so I never eat that crap).

I've come to my own conclusions. I challenge YOU to practice Gravitarianism. We worship gravity for keeping us safely on the ground.
I don't believe in gravity.

The point is like an experiment.

Although you may not believe in it, just try to, you will know the true nature of practicing religion(s) by experience than without second-hand resources and your own unexperienced opinions.

Telling an atheist to follow a religion is like telling a deist to turn their back on god. Agnostics on the other hand are too lazy/stubborn to care either which way.

Thinking back I attended a service at a baptist church once. It was fun but I didn't take anything spiritual out of it. also being the only white person there it was a little akward at first

I don't believe in gravity.
Die heathen scumbag! *devours* :mad:

Although you may not believe in it, just try to, you will know the true nature of practicing religion(s) by experience I would have though the true nature of religious practice was actual faith.

Can you follow the rules of the religion if you don't believe in them?

let's face it, you can bow to Mecca or run the rosary through your fingers but if your mind is just endlessly repeating "wow, this is silly" then you're not following the rules.

Christianity
Done it already.

Islam
Done it already.

Buddhism
Done it already

I've come to my own conclusions. I challenge YOU to practice Gravitarianism. We worship gravity for keeping us safely on the ground.

How did you feel after practicing these religions?

Die heathen scumbag! *devours* :mad:
The laws of physics may be believed by you, but I do not believe in them.

And don't even get me started about the differences between yours and my conception of time.

Agnostics on the other hand are too lazy/stubborn to care either which way.Oh, we care. We're just too smart to know what the truth is. The more we learn, the more we realize how little we know.

I saw the same thread on the VBulletin Boards created by my friend, and I decided to bring it here. The thread on the VBulletin Board got a lot of feedback.

Well, anyway,

I challenge all Athiests/Agnostics (this challenge is, ofcourse, optional) to choose to practice any officially recognized major religions of the World for one week straight, without violating any rules of that Religion, and notice any difference in their lives.

The Religions you may choose from are -

Christianity

As even Christians recognize that following all of the rules of Christianity is effectively impossible and thus you absolutely NEED Jesus if you want to have a hope in hell of getting into heaven I suggest you remove this from the list. (Nice scam they've got going there... God sets a bunch of rules you can't follow then says since you're such a hopeless rulebreaker you need to follow him or suffer the consequences... wish I'd thought of it...)

I'm less familiar with all the rules and regulations of the others, but I suspect one major rule common to all of them is that you have to actually believe their respective objects of worship exist... which again is impossible to just decide to do for a week. Unless you have a very, very bizarre mind.

but if your mind is just endlessly repeating "wow, this is silly" then you're not following the rules.I get the sudden urge to start a religion which features the chant "wow, this is silly" in its prayers.

Oh, we care. We're just too smart to know what the truth is. The more we learn, the more we realize how little we know.

I wouldn't say too smart as much as we like to look on from the sideline of life. All in which we know will eventually become false as they say.

Christianity
Done it already.

Islam
Done it already.

Buddhism
Done it already

I've come to my own conclusions. I challenge YOU to practice Gravitarianism. We worship gravity for keeping us safely on the ground.

Same will you, though I haven't tried Islam and have actually delved marginably into Shamanism. ^o^

I get the sudden urge to start a religion which features the chant "wow, this is silly" in its prayers.

Can I be the high priest of festive hats?

Oh and about those other religions. Christianity wasn't very tolerant, and I didn't believe it was all that moral after getting into it. Buddhism was calm and fun so I still obey most of the principles of it, and Shamanism seemed to make alot of sense, but it helps to take hallucinogens, and I didn't really want to risk it.

How did you feel after practicing these religions?
Free.

I saw the same thread on the VBulletin Boards created by my friend, and I decided to bring it here. The thread on the VBulletin Board got a lot of feedback.

Well, anyway,

I challenge all Athiests/Agnostics (this challenge is, ofcourse, optional) to choose to practice any officially recognized major religions of the World for one week straight, without violating any rules of that Religion, and notice any difference in their lives.

The Religions you may choose from are -

Christianity
Judaism
Islam
Hinduism
Buddhism
Shinto
Jainism
Baha'i Faith
Zoroastrianism
Paganism
Polythieism

--

I know there are many other religions out there, but since these are the Major ones, I decided to best put them in here.

So all you Athiests and Agnostics! Choose one of the Religions above, any Branch, and practice it for one week and state it here if you noticed a positive effect or a negative effect.

Try it! It will be a good challenge to undertake, and I am sure it will be fun.

Baha'i, Zorastrianism, Jainism and Shinto aren't really Major faiths.. And even though I'm not really an atheist or agnostic, I can never turn down a challenge...

I'll go with Judiasm... First I need to be born of a Jewish mother or convert.

...fucking circumcision...

Personally, I find it offensive that you think that those without religion don't lead a quality life and aren't good people.

Religion works for the people who want it to work for them. The others of us, who like to think for ourselves, don't need the crutch of religion, thank you.

My mother is a Jehovah's Witness, so my childhood was religion enough for me.

You can take your challenge and shove it.

Personally, I find it offensive that you think that those without religion don't lead a quality life and aren't good people.

Religion works for the people who want it to work for them. The others of us, who like to think for ourselves, don't need the crutch of religion, thank you.

My mother is a Jehovah's Witness, so my childhood was religion enough for me.

You can take your challenge and shove it.
Eh, don't have hard feelings. Something such as this occurs every three months or so.

I saw the same thread on the VBulletin Boards created by my friend, and I decided to bring it here. The thread on the VBulletin Board got a lot of feedback.

Well, anyway,

I challenge all Athiests/Agnostics (this challenge is, ofcourse, optional) to choose to practice any officially recognized major religions of the World for one week straight, without violating any rules of that Religion, and notice any difference in their lives.

The Religions you may choose from are -

Christianity
Judaism
Islam
Hinduism
Buddhism
Shinto
Jainism
Baha'i Faith
Zoroastrianism
Paganism
Polythieism

--

I know there are many other religions out there, but since these are the Major ones, I decided to best put them in here.

So all you Athiests and Agnostics! Choose one of the Religions above, any Branch, and practice it for one week and state it here if you noticed a positive effect or a negative effect.

Try it! It will be a good challenge to undertake, and I am sure it will be fun.

I was a devout Christian for 11 years of my life. I have never been better since I stopped being stupid.

Personally, I find it offensive that you think that those without religion don't lead a quality life and aren't good people.

Religion works for the people who want it to work for them. The others of us, who like to think for ourselves, don't need the crutch of religion, thank you.

My mother is a Jehovah's Witness, so my childhood was religion enough for me.

You can take your challenge and shove it.

I don't see why this offends you, I never said this Challenge will make people lead better lives, but I just wanted to challenge. In the starting post, I NEVER stated anything for or against religion.

No, thank you. I waste my time on the Internet, not on religious mumbojumbo.
Agreed I spent too many years following catholocism

I want that part of my life back

I was baptised a roman catholic and had to put up with that for years, until I was eighteen and legally allowed to declare my choice of 'religion' in a census. I am an atheist, and I don't see the merit of this experiment. You have faith, or you don't. I can accept others beliefs and respect those that truly follow the teachings of their religion with the conviction of that belief. But I don't think many of them would live as an atheist for a week, simply because they wouldn't lose their faith. There is more to a religion then scriptures and rituals. And there is more to atheism as well.

Can I be the high priest of festive hats?I suppose. We probably need one for silly dances and one for snacks as well. Any takers? That'll have us set for the essentials. We can go over details like optional rules and what to worship later ;)

I suppose. We probably need one for silly dances and one for snacks as well. Any takers? That'll have us set for the essentials. We can go over details like optional rules and what to worship later ;)

Can I be the cardinal of snacks?

I don't believe in gravity.

Yes, but that doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.

I saw the same thread on the VBulletin Boards created by my friend, and I decided to bring it here. The thread on the VBulletin Board got a lot of feedback.

Well, anyway,

I challenge all Athiests/Agnostics (this challenge is, ofcourse, optional) to choose to practice any officially recognized major religions of the World for one week straight, without violating any rules of that Religion, and notice any difference in their lives.

The Religions you may choose from are -

Christianity
Judaism
Islam
Hinduism
Buddhism
Shinto
Jainism
Baha'i Faith
Zoroastrianism
Paganism
Polythieism

--

I know there are many other religions out there, but since these are the Major ones, I decided to best put them in here.

So all you Athiests and Agnostics! Choose one of the Religions above, any Branch, and practice it for one week and state it here if you noticed a positive effect or a negative effect.

Try it! It will be a good challenge to undertake, and I am sure it will be fun.

What exactly is the reason why you post this challenge?

Would you be willing to take the opposite challenge, being an atheist for a week?

I suppose. We probably need one for silly dances and one for snacks as well. Any takers? That'll have us set for the essentials. We can go over details like optional rules and what to worship later ;)

I say we worship the world's largest roll of cheese. I'll be the silly dance coordinator, and I declare skanking as the official religous dance.

What exactly is the reason why you post this challenge?

Would you be willing to take the opposite challenge, being an atheist for a week?

Wouldn't be possible.

Look, people, go with what you think is right. Quit bitching to other people about it, don't try to change their minds, and just go with it.

I saw the same thread on the VBulletin Boards created by my friend, and I decided to bring it here. The thread on the VBulletin Board got a lot of feedback.

Well, anyway,

I challenge all Athiests/Agnostics (this challenge is, ofcourse, optional) to choose to practice any officially recognized major religions of the World for one week straight, without violating any rules of that Religion, and notice any difference in their lives.

The Religions you may choose from are -

Christianity
Judaism
Islam
Hinduism
Buddhism
Shinto
Jainism
Baha'i Faith
Zoroastrianism
Paganism
Polythieism

--

I know there are many other religions out there, but since these are the Major ones, I decided to best put them in here.

So all you Athiests and Agnostics! Choose one of the Religions above, any Branch, and practice it for one week and state it here if you noticed a positive effect or a negative effect.

Try it! It will be a good challenge to undertake, and I am sure it will be fun.
meh been there done that, i was achristian for many years, and spend a couple months experimenting with judaism when i was younger.

I'd go with paganism. Personally, I already am starting to find things I like about it, and it makes a hell of a lot more sense than monotheism...perhaps I'll come back in a few months a committed Pan-worshipping pagan.

Paganism is an extremely broad term that can cover just about any non-mainstream religion. Flying Spaghetti Monsterism is a pagan religion; I'd be willing to follow that for a year.

My mind cannot think in such backwards terms.

Sorry.

I would just like to point out to the OP that you can be Buhhdist & Athiest/Agnostic At the same time.

I suppose. We probably need one for silly dances and one for snacks as well. Any takers? That'll have us set for the essentials. We can go over details like optional rules and what to worship later ;)

What about onomatapeia? You need a high preist for that don't you? How aboout official holidays?

I saw the same thread on the VBulletin Boards created by my friend, and I decided to bring it here. The thread on the VBulletin Board got a lot of feedback.

Well, anyway,

I challenge all Athiests/Agnostics (this challenge is, ofcourse, optional) to choose to practice any officially recognized major religions of the World for one week straight, without violating any rules of that Religion, and notice any difference in their lives.

The Religions you may choose from are -

Christianity
Judaism
Islam
Hinduism
Buddhism
Shinto
Jainism
Baha'i Faith
Zoroastrianism
Paganism
Polythieism

--

I know there are many other religions out there, but since these are the Major ones, I decided to best put them in here.

So all you Athiests and Agnostics! Choose one of the Religions above, any Branch, and practice it for one week and state it here if you noticed a positive effect or a negative effect.

Try it! It will be a good challenge to undertake, and I am sure it will be fun.

Don't all of these 'faiths' require 'belief', to truly practise?

Don't all of these 'faiths' require 'belief', to truly practise?
Being able to function requires some degree of belief in something. The way it appears to me, many people claim atheism because it allows them to bash the beliefs of others without exposing their own beliefs to ridicule.

Being able to function requires some degree of belief in something. The way it appears to me, many people claim atheism because it allows them to bash the beliefs of others without exposing their own beliefs to ridicule.

Well, it is the most logical. I mean, if you want to attribute everything to God, be my guest. Just don't get in the way of real science, because we want to make actual progress.

Well, it is the most logical. I mean, if you want to attribute everything to God, be my guest. Just don't get in the way of real science, because we want to make actual progress.

Science and religion can be compatible provided they stick to what they do best. Science can tell you how to do stuff, but religion can tell you why it's worth doing.

Yes, you can make progress with science, but religion is what tells you in which direction to go.

Being able to function requires some degree of belief in something. The way it appears to me, many people claim atheism because it allows them to bash the beliefs of others without exposing their own beliefs to ridicule.

Good post, for your 666th one....

Are you trying to say that Atheists are actually theists, deep down? And that their skepticism and doubt is actually a cunningly contrived disguise?

Surely, if there is a 'belief' common to Atheists, it is the 'belief' that they don't accept the necessity for 'gods'. I'm not sure there's a shadowy agenda behind it all.

Of course - I don't agree you need a set of 'beliefs' to 'function' either...

Easy, Bah'ai faith. I can act just like I normally would and anything which is not purely bah'ai I can give the excuse: "I have not understood the error in my ways."



Which I'd have to do a lot, because the Bah'ai faith is very liberal, but if you wanted to follow it purely very emotionally restricting. No anger, no words or acts of hate, hell, no THOUGHTS of hate or even of misfortune upon others, and no alcohol. Plus you have to treat everyone as equal induviduals, no exceptions.

And there's a lot of praying, more praying than any other religion, I think. And you don't just make up prayers, we have a ton of bah'ai prayer books in my house, even some bah'ai day-prayer books, one every day. I don't think there's any feast coming up soon, so that's not a problem, and there aren't any holidays anytime soon.


But I'm not going to bother with your challenge anyway.

(My mom's bah'ai)

I saw the same thread on the VBulletin Boards created by my friend, and I decided to bring it here. The thread on the VBulletin Board got a lot of feedback.

Well, anyway,

I challenge all Athiests/Agnostics (this challenge is, ofcourse, optional) to choose to practice any officially recognized major religions of the World for one week straight, without violating any rules of that Religion, and notice any difference in their lives.

The Religions you may choose from are -

Christianity
Judaism
Islam
Hinduism
Buddhism
Shinto
Jainism
Baha'i Faith
Zoroastrianism
Paganism
Polythieism

--

I know there are many other religions out there, but since these are the Major ones, I decided to best put them in here.

So all you Athiests and Agnostics! Choose one of the Religions above, any Branch, and practice it for one week and state it here if you noticed a positive effect or a negative effect.

Try it! It will be a good challenge to undertake, and I am sure it will be fun.

I tried being Roman Catholic for the better part of 16 years. It didn't suit me much. Agnosticism is so much better. And as the second post says, "I waste my time on the internet, not religious mumbojumbo."

Paganism

Dictionary.com: Pagan
1. One who is not a Christian, Muslim, or Jew, especially a worshiper of a polytheistic religion.
2. One who has no religion.
3. A non-Christian.
4. A hedonist.
5. A Neo-Pagan.

This is going to be easy! And fun!
*Feil is a hedonist for a week*

Telling an atheist to follow a religion is like telling a deist to turn their back on god. Agnostics on the other hand are too lazy/stubborn to care either which way.



Sorry, but I'd have to agree with this.
Also, Religion is nothing without the central focus of worship, which is usually a god, so it is hard for an athiest to pretend they believe in a god, if they don't.
If they are pretending, it isn't even true belief, anyway.

Good post, for your 666th one....

Are you trying to say that Atheists are actually theists, deep down? And that their skepticism and doubt is actually a cunningly contrived disguise?

Surely, if there is a 'belief' common to Atheists, it is the 'belief' that they don't accept the necessity for 'gods'. I'm not sure there's a shadowy agenda behind it all.

Of course - I don't agree you need a set of 'beliefs' to 'function' either...

No, not at all. If it's any consolation, I don't believe in any gods either. And no, the skepticism and doubt is not a contrived disguise. It's very genuine. However it does seem hipocritical to say that someone has come up with the wrong answer when one isn't willing to offer their best guess as to what the right answer is. For every problem, there's plenty of wrong answers out there and any idiot can point them out. It's the person that offers a possible solution that is worth listening to.

The point is like an experiment.

Although you may not believe in it, just try to, you will know the true nature of practicing religion(s) by experience than without second-hand resources and your own unexperienced opinions.
Err, somehow I think that misses what the point of many religions were said to be?
I thought the point with most of 'em was supposed to be to truly believe in them, with all your heart? How, then, would just practicing them without believing reveal their true nature?

Err, somehow I think that misses what the point of many religions were said to be?
I thought the point with most of 'em was supposed to be to truly believe in them, with all your heart? How, then, would just practicing them without believing reveal their true nature?

Well, it's a trick. In order to practice them, you would have to believe in them, at least a little bit. The fact that you would pick one over another shows that you would have at least a little bit of faith in it. Practicing it would only cause that faith to grow.

Imagine a car that runs on how much gas a person thinks is in the tank. You could go anywhere you want. Now, imagine someone saying "That's stupid! There's no gas in the tank!" They wouldn't be able to go anywhere at all.

If I ever go to England I'm becoming a follower of the Force for a week, how's that?

I saw the same thread on the VBulletin Boards created by my friend, and I decided to bring it here. The thread on the VBulletin Board got a lot of feedback.

Well, anyway,

I challenge all Athiests/Agnostics (this challenge is, ofcourse, optional) to choose to practice any officially recognized major religions of the World for one week straight, without violating any rules of that Religion, and notice any difference in their lives.

The Religions you may choose from are -

Christianity
Judaism
Islam
Hinduism
Buddhism
Shinto
Jainism
Baha'i Faith
Zoroastrianism
Paganism
Polythieism

--

I know there are many other religions out there, but since these are the Major ones, I decided to best put them in here.

So all you Athiests and Agnostics! Choose one of the Religions above, any Branch, and practice it for one week and state it here if you noticed a positive effect or a negative effect.

Try it! It will be a good challenge to undertake, and I am sure it will be fun.
Paganism and polytheism are headings for groups of religions. That is like saying "follow monotheism" without specifying islam, judaism, christianity, or whathaveyou.

Also, I don't know a single religious person who follows their religions without breaking a single rule. Not to mention, a bit part of following a religion is believing...not doing so is breaking a rule right off the bat.

that being said, I have been bar mitzvahed. Also have some background in episcopalian stuff. I'm now atheistic. Religion is a pain. I'd rather live for myself than some god/God/G-d/Gods

So all you Athiests and Agnostics! Choose one of the Religions above, any Branch, and practice it for one week and state it here if you noticed a positive effect or a negative effect.

Try it! It will be a good challenge to undertake, and I am sure it will be fun.

No thanks. You see, I am an atheist because I was raised in an organized religion, and have since REJECTED religion. So, I guess you could say I had your little experiment forced upon me from birth til around jr. high when I began waking up from that nightmare. And it was SO not fun. It was frightening.

Here, I got two challenges here for everybody.
Atheists: disprove the existence of a universal power.
Theists: prove the existence of a universal power.

Discuss!

These threads are ridiculous... Why can't we go to priests and scientists with religious questions? Why do you all always go to the Nationstates forums? It's like asking a retard if God exists. Oh wait...

polytheism is not a religion, it is a type of religion. (Paganism is polytheistic)
Paganism is all of the polytheist religions (by christian standards) (not ment to offend) (I am atheist) (I should stop using parenthesis) (there are others)

Oh and btw- judiasm requires males to curcumsize (very inconvenient for males) and if you want to get in you have to ask 3 times or be born into it.

Islam requires belief to be inducted, you have to recite the oath with true belief in front of 3 important people. (X_X again sry to offend- i dont remember the name)

Zoroastrianism is kind of hard to do, it is a very uncommon religion.

Well.... That is most of them. :P
[/nitpick]
;)

As even Christians recognize that following all of the rules of Christianity is effectively impossible and thus you absolutely NEED Jesus if you want to have a hope in hell of getting into heaven I suggest you remove this from the list. (Nice scam they've got going there... God sets a bunch of rules you can't follow then says since you're such a hopeless rulebreaker you need to follow him or suffer the consequences... wish I'd thought of it...)

I'm less familiar with all the rules and regulations of the others, but I suspect one major rule common to all of them is that you have to actually believe their respective objects of worship exist... which again is impossible to just decide to do for a week. Unless you have a very, very bizarre mind.
Other than believe, what would a Christian have to do to keep the rules in the space of one week? It wouldn't be breaking any Christian rules to not attend church or pray for a week, would it?

buhddism aint a relegion... its a lifestyle, thats y u can end up with buhddist muslims/christians/any other relegion

I will do Polytheism

what I'm going to do is believe in all the Gods yet only work for one (the one I will make when I can be arsed)

This will go on the black and white worship power (yet I will just build a temple out of Lego)

Studied the following intensely (as well as a few others) and found them all wanting:

Christianity (a couple of denominations)
Buddhism
Shinto
Paganism (more than one form)

It would be pointless to follow the rules without believing the central tenets and since I can't believe in god(s), the most important tenet, the exercise becomes one of futility and foolishness.

Besides, I always found following some of the rules (or more accurately, following the leaders actions) often conflicted with my personal ethics.

Studied the following intensely (as well as a few others)

It would be pointless to follow the rules without believing the central tenets and since I can't believe in god(s), the most important tenet, the exercise becomes one of futility and foolishness.

its only a laugh you know no need to take it seriously (though I would of asked people to wear underwear/go commando for a week)

Anyways any one want to worship my (new) God (I wonder how many missionaries have said that before being eaten:p )

However it does seem hipocritical to say that someone has come up with the wrong answer when one isn't willing to offer their best guess as to what the right answer is.

Nonsense. If I can clearly show that Mr Smith did not murder Ms Jones it is not hypocritical for me to do so, even if I do not know who actually did commit the murder. "I do not know" is a better answer than "this must be true because I cannot think of anything else".

For every problem, there's plenty of wrong answers out there and any idiot can point them out.

Actually science works by pointing out the wrong answers, and then *correcting* them - to make them less and less wrong.

It's the person that offers a possible solution that is worth listening to.

Assuming this solution actually has value of course. Take this theory on the start of life:

"All life began because a freak wormhole opened up in my toilet earlier today, transporting my excrement a few billion years back in time - where the bacteria flourished, grew and evolved. We still know this subconciously - hence the saying "you are full of shit""

Is this *possible* ? Yes - it really is. But does it have value ? Do the other 1000 random things I can think up on this subject ? Should we teach it on Kansas schools ;) ?

As to the original point of the topic: I see no reason to be a hypocrite for a week.

I saw the same thread on the VBulletin Boards created by my friend, and I decided to bring it here. The thread on the VBulletin Board got a lot of feedback.

Well, anyway,

I challenge all Athiests/Agnostics (this challenge is, ofcourse, optional) to choose to practice any officially recognized major religions of the World for one week straight, without violating any rules of that Religion, and notice any difference in their lives.

The Religions you may choose from are -

Christianity
Judaism
Islam
Hinduism
Buddhism
Shinto
Jainism
Baha'i Faith
Zoroastrianism
Paganism
Polythieism

--

I know there are many other religions out there, but since these are the Major ones, I decided to best put them in here.

So all you Athiests and Agnostics! Choose one of the Religions above, any Branch, and practice it for one week and state it here if you noticed a positive effect or a negative effect.

Try it! It will be a good challenge to undertake, and I am sure it will be fun.



The dumbest post ever.

I would not primarily consider choosing any, feeling deeply humiliated to have to stoop to the level of religious service. Being a slave to a human is bad, humiliating and demeaning, but being a slave to a nonexistant idea is even worse.

Following to the letter one of these religions could be a challenge even for one of its member !!!
Most of the followers never used "all" the rules...

Anyway, an atheist, will never accept such a challenge in real life coz for him atheism is a religion.
When a christian is talking of punishing the impious he feels under a direct attack. And he is in the truth, many religion like to treat the non followers as infidels heretics and devout of the devil.
Nowadays Atheism is kinda religion, with laws and rules.

Your challenge is difficult, how to combine the rules of a Muslim with Confucianism or Buddhism? And more... how to choose the right sect in your collection of "generic" religions ?

They are so many different cults in a religion, which one could be the right one ? (e.g. try to tell me that Catholicism is representing Christianity !?!?)

Your game is a bit of a kindergarten game, no harm done, it's just a childish game.

God bless you

Following to the letter one of these religions could be a challenge even for one of its member !!!
Most of the followers never used "all" the rules...

Anyway, an atheist, will never accept such a challenge in real life coz for him atheism is a religion.


For the last time....

Athiesm is NOT a religion.

It is a LACK of belief.

Nothing more...nothing less.

There are no rules....the only requirement to athiesm, is that you dont believe in any gods.

Thats IT.

Nowadays Atheism is kinda religion, with laws and rules.
Crap. What laws and rules?

Atheism is nothing more than the absence of a belief in god.

No. Why should I?

I've been baptised and confirmed Catholic. I now find that religion rather vile.

Athiesm is NOT a religion.

I disagree Atheism is still very much a belief just a belief that there is no higher power not even science denies God it runs on the agnostic stance

that’s why when your asked your religion on forms it clearly says Atheist and not so clearly says no religion (meaning Agnostic)

I disagree Atheism is still very much a belief just a belief that there is no higher power not even science denies God it runs on the agnostic stance
"Strong atheism" (the definite belief that there is no god) may be a belief, but "a-theism" literally means "the absence of a belief in god". It is, by definition, a non-belief.

that’s why when your asked your religion on forms it clearly says Atheist and not so clearly says no religion (meaning Agnostic)
Form-writers are non infallible :) The last official form I filled in on this question (the UK 2001 Census) did not include "atheist" as an option. There were various religions, "any other religion", and "none".

Challenge to Zanasa - learn to spell simple words like Atheist.

I would pick Shintô :D

Just learning about it in Japanese History, and it sounds quite interesting :)

I was a catholic until I was old enough to make my own decisions. Never improved my life in a positive way. So I doubt one week would change my life. I'll try it though. I'll be a muslim for a week. :D

No thanks. You see, I am an atheist because I was raised in an organized religion, and have since REJECTED religion. So, I guess you could say I had your little experiment forced upon me from birth til around jr. high when I began waking up from that nightmare. And it was SO not fun. It was frightening.
Pretty much the same here :mad:

Oh, and here's one of the fun sides of Shintô, festivals like the "Hounen Matsuri", where a big wooden penis is paraded around :D

http://www.farstrider.net/Japan/Festivals/HounenMatsuri/index.htm
http://xs62.xs.to/pics/06016/BigPalanquin.jpg (http://xs.to)

Here, I got two challenges here for everybody.
Atheists: disprove the existence of a universal power.
Theists: prove the existence of a universal power.

Discuss!

These threads are ridiculous... Why can't we go to priests and scientists with religious questions? Why do you all always go to the Nationstates forums? It's like asking a retard if God exists. Oh wait...
I like you.

I've done this already. Over the christmas holidays I beame a Wiccan! It felt great. It was like the weight, a feeling of forced generosity and meryment had been lifted and I was spiritually and financially free!

I was Christian. I feel better now that I'm not. Experiment not needed.,

And so it goes on.......the endless debate on whether God exists or not.

FIRSTLY, neither side can really prove their beliefs or idealogy. One side may be able to claim that their approach was reached with scientific reasoning but ultimately in no way improves the claim. Scientific evaluation cannot be used to prove a non-scientific concept. Thus, this argument is pointless in terms of theology.

SECONDLY, it is completely and utterly irrelevant if God does or does not exist in actuality. All that matters is people believe he exists. Once that belief is placed, evidence and reason are useless.

This is why I do not hold any belief in relation to God. I do not believe he exists, I do not believe he does not exist and I do not believe I am unsure as to whether he exists. This is because I simply do not care.

Nonsense. If I can clearly show that Mr Smith did not murder Ms Jones it is not hypocritical for me to do so, even if I do not know who actually did commit the murder. "I do not know" is a better answer than "this must be true because I cannot think of anything else".


I don't think we are quite on the same page yet. Science is not a religion and therefore is incapable of providing answers to religious questions. The same can be said of religion as well. People may try to provide religious answers to scientific questions, but they are not taken seriously. When it comes to finding data, science is definitely superior in its methods.

The things that science can't tell you is what to do with your data. Science can't tell you how to be happy. Science can't even tell you if you should go out for breakfast or make it yourself. This is where one's beliefs take over.

Science is the engine. Religion is the compass. Simply revving one's engine doesn't get you anywhere. I think Capra had the right idea: "Religion does not need science, and science does not need religion, but man needs both."

I saw the same thread on the VBulletin Boards created by my friend, and I decided to bring it here. The thread on the VBulletin Board got a lot of feedback.

Well, anyway,

I challenge all Athiests/Agnostics (this challenge is, ofcourse, optional) to choose to practice any officially recognized major religions of the World for one week straight, without violating any rules of that Religion, and notice any difference in their lives.

The Religions you may choose from are -

Christianity
Judaism
Islam
Hinduism
Buddhism
Shinto
Jainism
Baha'i Faith
Zoroastrianism
Paganism
Polythieism

--

I know there are many other religions out there, but since these are the Major ones, I decided to best put them in here.

So all you Athiests and Agnostics! Choose one of the Religions above, any Branch, and practice it for one week and state it here if you noticed a positive effect or a negative effect.

Try it! It will be a good challenge to undertake, and I am sure it will be fun.

i was challenged to do this a fe months ago , was boring as fuck, no booze, no casual sex, no porn nothing

made me feel suicidal to tell you the truth

No, not at all. If it's any consolation, I don't believe in any gods either. And no, the skepticism and doubt is not a contrived disguise. It's very genuine. However it does seem hipocritical to say that someone has come up with the wrong answer when one isn't willing to offer their best guess as to what the right answer is. For every problem, there's plenty of wrong answers out there and any idiot can point them out. It's the person that offers a possible solution that is worth listening to.

Actually, at heart, the Agnostic and Atheist give an answer that is different to the 'religious' answer, possibly harder to come to, definitely more uncomfortable to hold.... and just as 'valid'.

The 'truth' they find is: "You know.... I just don't know!"

The (Implicit) Atheist has to face recognition of the fact that he/she has questions that may never be answered..... that may not even have answers.

(Explicit Atheists, of course, are making a statement of faith... much like any other religious protestation).

I challenge all Athiests/Agnostics (this challenge is, ofcourse, optional) to choose to practice any officially recognized major religions of the World for one week straight, without violating any rules of that Religion, and notice any difference in their lives... So all you Athiests and Agnostics! Choose one of the Religions above, any Branch, and practice it for one week and state it here if you noticed a positive effect or a negative effect.

Try it! It will be a good challenge to undertake, and I am sure it will be fun.
The problem with this challenge is that "practice" of a religion is not just going through motions, it requires belief.

Actually, at heart, the Agnostic and Atheist give an answer that is different to the 'religious' answer, possibly harder to come to, definitely more uncomfortable to hold.... and just as 'valid'.

The 'truth' they find is: "You know.... I just don't know!"

The (Implicit) Atheist has to face recognition of the fact that he/she has questions that may never be answered..... that may not even have answers.

(Explicit Atheists, of course, are making a statement of faith... much like any other religious protestation).

The question that is avoided though is "is it worth persuing an answer?" "I don't know" is indeed a valid, and honest answer, but is it an answer worth settling for? Two years ago, I "didn't know" how to cook. One day, I just decided I wanted to cook and bake things and now I can make anything I want. Does this mean I know how to make everything? No. Does this mean that I won't screw anything up? Of course not! It's the willingness to try that will create success.

Ultimately, the question is "Is life worth living?"

I found the challenge to be an interesting, if somewhat Pascalesque, idea. But it's a rather unrealistic challenge because, as others have said, religion is not just about ritual and regulation, it's about belief. For most people, changing their beliefs is a long, difficult and usually completely involuntary process. For some, they can genuinely change what they believe in a sort period of time as a conscious act. Those people are very few and far between, though.

I have found the rest of the thread quite amusing, though. It's always great fun to see the resident atheists climbing all over each other in an effort prove they believe the least (or unbelieve the most!). Which is, of course, what usually happens in threads that even hint at religion around here. And this one was posted with religion as it's primary topic AND directly aimed at atheists and agnostics!

Silly Zanasa. You've created a monster. You should know better! :p

The question that is avoided though is "is it worth persuing an answer?" "I don't know" is indeed a valid, and honest answer, but is it an answer worth settling for? Two years ago, I "didn't know" how to cook. One day, I just decided I wanted to cook and bake things and now I can make anything I want. Does this mean I know how to make everything? No. Does this mean that I won't screw anything up? Of course not! It's the willingness to try that will create success.

Ultimately, the question is "Is life worth living?"

But, that question doesn't even require the 'religion' matter to be addressed... so that is something of a strawman.

Why is my life worth living? Because of my family, who need me... that's one. Because many of the things I do actually aid the betterment of my fellow humans... that's two. Because I have talents, and I want to use them... that's three. Because I want to leave a legacy... that's four. Because I've started, and what the hell... I'm going to make the best of it.... that's five...

I could continue. Life is not defined by your religious (or a-religious) views, unless you CHOOSE it to be so.


The differences between your 'cooking' and the question of religion... are that: a) you could verify the existence of 'cooking' before you began; b) There is material evidence of cooking, and; c) you can obtain a definitive response from cooking...

What's amazing, it's the unability of some religious people to understand that being atheist doesn't mean being without morality.

I'm firmly atheist, but I do apply to myself my own moral code, which is not very different from the "revolutionnary moral" that prevails in revolutionnary times (or at least did here (Paris), both in 1789-1794 and during 1871's Commune).

My "moral code" includes:

- Help out your bretheren whenever possible: give out to charity (I do give quite a lot of money to the "Secours Populaire Français" (french charity organisation created by communists after WW2), ...), dedicate some of your time helping others (and I definetly do spend a lot of time answering to/helping people on IRC channels or forums), ...

- Live, as much as you can, according to the society you want to build. For example, I work in a Free Software company even if I could get a higher pay for making non-free softwares; I buy fair trade products as much as I can, even if it means going to store more far away and paying more; I would refuse to enter the army even if it would mean me going to jail; I refuse to own a car because cars pollute too much; I don't use non-free software; ...

- Don't use drugs, even "gentle" ones like alcohol or tabacco. Drugs keep you under dependance, and therefore remove your freedom. Drugs cloud away your ability to think. Drugs, like religion, are just a way to keep the people under control and prevent them from raising against the reckless order of global capitalism.

- Be honest. Trust is fundemantal for a communist society. Let's build trust now. Sure, a few white lies can be ok in some situations. But avoid them as much as possible. Be who you are, say what you think, not what others would like to hear. (Sure, try to say it nicely, if possible ;) )

I could continue, and speak about my moral code on sex or whatever, but that's not the goal of my post (who cares about my own moral code ? ;) ). The idea is that you can have a moral code, and follow it more or less strictly (I try to follow it, but I don't do it 100% of the time - but for example I didn't drink a single drop of alcohol since 7 years or so), without having any religion.

I would say that only people who don't have real values to believe in need religious mystism to have a moral code ;)

The Religions you may choose from are -

Christianity
Judaism
Islam
Hinduism
Buddhism
Shinto
Jainism
Baha'i Faith
Zoroastrianism
Paganism
Polythieism

--

...I am sure it will be fun.


:rolleyes: Polytheism is not a religion, it is a category of religions. Polytheism covers many religions; Ancient Greek, Ancient Roman, Assyrian, Norse, Christianity (according to some Muslim theorists), etc. Paganism is not a religion at all, but a definition applied to other religions by a religion. Courtesy of dictionary.com...

Paganism
1. One who is not a Christian, Muslim, or Jew, especially a worshiper of a polytheistic religion.
2. One who has no religion.
3. A non-Christian.
4. A hedonist.
5. A Neo-Pagan.

By this definition, as an apathetic, agnostic, apostate atheist I am already a pagan. :cool:

I did appreciate the fun comment. I bet you would have brought popcorn to the inquisition interrogations.

Lord Jimbo, God-Emperor of Jimbolandistan
'The best thing for opening a closed mind is a crowbar'

Being able to function requires some degree of belief in something. The way it appears to me, many people claim atheism because it allows them to bash the beliefs of others without exposing their own beliefs to ridicule.

I agree that some atheists use their non-belief as a hammer to bash those around them. I went through this phase as a teenager when I first walked away from Christianity. It is also true that some religious people use their beliefs as a hammer as well. I point at Pat Robertson saying that Ariel Sharon's stroke was a punishment of God for dividing the holy land.

I am a closet atheist. I keep my beliefs to myself unless someone comes waving their religion in my face or attacks my non-belief. As a Soldier, I swallow my feelings on numerous occasions as the Chaplain leads a prayer, because I understand the greater good comes of this for my fellow Soldiers. I have spoken up though when a Chaplain said there were no atheist paratroopers. My atheism does not preclude the existance of a deity for you, as that would imply that my set of values is better than yours. It is upon each person to find their way.

Sidebar - while I think the atheist in Cali that is suing over 'under god' in the pledge of allegience is an idiot, I laugh my arse off over the conservative republicans defending a pledge that was written by a socialist. :eek: http://history.vineyard.net/pledge.htm

Lord Jimbo
God-Emperor of Jimbolandistan

'The best thing to open a closed mind is a crowbar'

But, that question doesn't even require the 'religion' matter to be addressed... so that is something of a strawman.

Why is my life worth living? Because of my family, who need me... that's one. Because many of the things I do actually aid the betterment of my fellow humans... that's two. Because I have talents, and I want to use them... that's three. Because I want to leave a legacy... that's four. Because I've started, and what the hell... I'm going to make the best of it.... that's five...

I could continue. Life is not defined by your religious (or a-religious) views, unless you CHOOSE it to be so.


The differences between your 'cooking' and the question of religion... are that: a) you could verify the existence of 'cooking' before you began; b) There is material evidence of cooking, and; c) you can obtain a definitive response from cooking...

Congratulations! You now have your own religion! Not a bad one at that, either. People live for much less sensible reasons, but those are actually a good set to work from. Personally, I would disagree with the legacy part, but it's your life. Nobody had to tell you these things were valuable. You just decided it on your own and that's that. I'm pretty sure you would not be amenable to people trying to talk you out of those things as being valuable, but you may be inclined to tell others about what you consider to be valuable.

As far as the cooking goes, I would say this: a) I could not verify the existence of my ability to cook before I began; b) there is material evidence that people have employed religion to their benefit, and; c) you can obtain a definitive response from religion. One prays for things to happen and one's life moves in that direction. Any number of things happen that by themselves don't seem to have anything to do with a prayer, but they add up and one finds themself where they want to be. I think what it comes down to though is not what one prays to, but the sincerity with which one prays.

Nowadays Atheism is kinda religion

Right. And bald is a hair colour.

I cannot follow any religion other then atheism because I fo not believe that there are are any gods. For the last time, to all you theists, THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS DEITIES!!

Congratulations! You now have your own religion! Not a bad one at that, either. People live for much less sensible reasons, but those are actually a good set to work from. Personally, I would disagree with the legacy part, but it's your life. Nobody had to tell you these things were valuable. You just decided it on your own and that's that. I'm pretty sure you would not be amenable to people trying to talk you out of those things as being valuable, but you may be inclined to tell others about what you consider to be valuable.

As far as the cooking goes, I would say this: a) I could not verify the existence of my ability to cook before I began; b) there is material evidence that people have employed religion to their benefit, and; c) you can obtain a definitive response from religion. One prays for things to happen and one's life moves in that direction. Any number of things happen that by themselves don't seem to have anything to do with a prayer, but they add up and one finds themself where they want to be. I think what it comes down to though is not what one prays to, but the sincerity with which one prays.

If any collection of rules, reasons, or ideas, qualifies as 'religion'... then you can argue that 'religion' is instrumental in making life worthwhile.

However, by the same token, "pie" or "lesbians" is/are required for making life worthwhile.... IF you define those things as we just defined 'religion'.

Actually - I'm not too sure "pie" shouldn't have been on the 'reasons' list, anyway... :)

Regarding the legacy - I guess it depends (again) on definitions. I'm not rich, and likely never will be. But, I am a poet, and I write short-stories for my kids... and that is the legacy I am concerned about leaving.

I could quibble over the allegorical cooking, or the efficacy of prayer... but I'd rather not. It's belief... and you 'believe' it... and that is likely all that will ever matter.

I'm happy for you if you have your 'truth'... and, I agree with the spirit of what you said before: "Ultimately, the question is "Is life worth living?""

We just have different ideas about quite what that entails, and quite what it means.

Shalom, friend.

Originally Posted by PasturePastry
Congratulations! You now have your own religion! Not a bad one at that, either. People live for much less sensible reasons, but those are actually a good set to work from. Personally, I would disagree with the legacy part, but it's your life. Nobody had to tell you these things were valuable. You just decided it on your own and that's that. I'm pretty sure you would not be amenable to people trying to talk you out of those things as being valuable, but you may be inclined to tell others about what you consider to be valuable.

As far as the cooking goes, I would say this: a) I could not verify the existence of my ability to cook before I began; b) there is material evidence that people have employed religion to their benefit, and; c) you can obtain a definitive response from religion. One prays for things to happen and one's life moves in that direction. Any number of things happen that by themselves don't seem to have anything to do with a prayer, but they add up and one finds themself where they want to be. I think what it comes down to though is not what one prays to, but the sincerity with which one prays.


If any collection of rules, reasons, or ideas, qualifies as 'religion'... then you can argue that 'religion' is instrumental in making life worthwhile.

However, by the same token, "pie" or "lesbians" is/are required for making life worthwhile.... IF you define those things as we just defined 'religion'.

Hey there Grave..!! :) Good to hear your voice of reason and wisdom.

Religion is very simple. (HOW MANY TIMES have we been over this..!!?)

Religion (as a noun) is a belief system, the "ingredients" of which are entirely
at the users choosing for whatever purpose the user decides to use it for.

Religion (as an active verb) is dealing with the world of reality (which includes
the "inner world" of one's thoughts and perceptions) with one's belief system.

The primary reason "religion the noun" exists, and must exist for ALL lifeforms,
is that no creature (lifeform) can deal with the utter chaos that would
proceed from a "belief" that there is NO consistency in the world where
EVERYTHING is a "special case". Some things MUST be generalized
into "beliefs" so that they can be NOT-DEALT-WITH (temporarily ignored) to
make room for "productive efforts" that actually provide survival benefit to
said lifeform.

The primary reason "religion the verb" exists, is because positive action is
required for survival, and NOT "applying what you believe to be TRUE"
(aka "doing" religion) would waste so much time and energy (by treating
everything as a special case) that survival would be veritably impossible.


Actually - I'm not too sure "pie" shouldn't have been on the 'reasons' list, anyway...

Regarding the legacy - I guess it depends (again) on definitions. I'm not rich, and likely never will be. But, I am a poet, and I write short-stories for my kids... and that is the legacy I am concerned about leaving.

That is the definition of "heaven". It's NOT some peaceful cloud ridden
playground and shuffleboard retirement community. It's having affected the
world in the way you wish and knowing that fact when you "leave this world".


I could quibble over the allegorical cooking, or the efficacy of prayer... but I'd rather not. It's belief... and you 'believe' it... and that is likely all that will ever matter.

I'm happy for you if you have your 'truth'... and, I agree with the spirit of what you said before: "Ultimately, the question is "Is life worth living?""

We just have different ideas about quite what that entails, and quite what it means.

Shalom, friend.

If life is not worth living, stop now,.. there is only more of this unworthy
activity for you, and that would be bad for your spirit, and bad for everyone
else's spirit.

Of course, I'm not talking to YOU, who think that life IS worth living. :)

Shalom, aloha, and mahalo nui to those who know that belief is mandatory,
that religion (verb and noun) is inherent in all life, and that it doesn't make a
whit of difference whether you acknowledge the inevitability of those facts or
not.

The world will carry on after you, whatever you choose to do and believe.

But what you DO shows your beliefs, and your religion, and IS your "legacy"
given by you to the world.

-Iakeo

I cannot follow any religion other then atheism because I fo not believe that there are are any gods. For the last time, to all you theists, THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS DEITIES!!

That's fine..!

But are there "principles" that you base your actions on?

"Deities" are merely the "embodiment" of "principles".

What you believe, and on what you act, is your religion.

Therefore, you do have a religion. And one of your "deities" is that there shall
be no "deities" that you can "point to" in terms of a physical description.

Thus,.. we agree entirely..! You and I have (at this point in our relationship)
very similar views on religion.

Aloha nui loa, kanaka..!

-Iakeo

I was made to go to church every day of my life until I was about fourteen and the whole time I was going through the motions and wondering why I had to go through with this pointless crap. Hell it's fine if you believe in it, but I didn't. The whole picture that was painted for me just didn't mesh with the shit I'd witnessed during my lifetime, even when I was 8 years old. So no I'm not gonna 'try' a religion out for a week, because that would go against the entire point of the religion. Leave me alone and stop trying to make me feel guilty about my own personal beliefs.

Originally Posted by Jesuites
Nowadays Atheism is kinda religion

Right. And bald is a hair colour.

Hair color (or colour) is a condition of hair that all hair has.

Bald is a condition of the scalp, not a condition of the hair.

Are we talking about hair (a physical manifestation of the scalp, aka the
peculiars of ones beliefs), or are we talking about the scalp (the source of
hair, aka the reasons for and "inspiration" of one's beliefs)..?

Most atheists see no need for "hair", as it can't be necessary if it's optional
(as in the case of baldness), but they think that those with hair really should
shear off their hair, as they're just carrying around an unnecessary vestige.

..but we all NEED and inherently have a scalp.

Religion is the scalp,.. not the hair.


-Iakeo

I was made to go to church every day of my life until I was about fourteen and the whole time I was going through the motions and wondering why I had to go through with this pointless crap. Hell it's fine if you believe in it, but I didn't. The whole picture that was painted for me just didn't mesh with the shit I'd witnessed during my lifetime, even when I was 8 years old. So no I'm not gonna 'try' a religion out for a week, because that would go against the entire point of the religion. Leave me alone and stop trying to make me feel guilty about my own personal beliefs.

Your "church" didn't do a very good job with what they were trying to
accomplish, did they? :) (I'm no fan of "churches".)

If you have beliefs, then you have religion. May you practice it to the
betterment of the world and the betterment of yourself, and be pleased
beyond words by your actions as directed by your religion.

If you feel bad because someone else says your beliefs are bad, and if your
beliefs AREN'T bad, then you're giving fools the power to oppress you for no
good cause.

The simple answer to that is to laugh at those fools, and show them why
your beliefs are not bad. :)



-Iakeo

I disagree Atheism is still very much a belief just a belief that there is no higher power not even science denies God it runs on the agnostic stance

that’s why when your asked your religion on forms it clearly says Atheist and not so clearly says no religion (meaning Agnostic)


Ok then...once again, for your benefit.

Religions require belief.

Christianity requires belief in Christ.

Islam requires belief in Allah.

Whether its Odin, or Christ, or Allah, the requirement is to believe.

There is no such requirement in Atheism, in fact, the only requirement is that you do NOT believe.

Atheism is NOT a religion, in fact..it is the absence of a religion.

Atheism is NOT a religion, in fact..it is the absence of a religion.

I can't speak for all atheists, but I do have several beliefs on religion. But I agree with you in principle the atheism is a rejection of religion, rather than an affirmative belief.

I believe- that god is as real as the Tooth Fairy.
I believe- that all people who follow an organized religion are wrong.
I believe- that religion is the opiate of the masses.
I believe- that one day in the future, humans will look back on christianity the way we look back on fire-worshipers.
I believe- that the Flying Spaghetti Monster is as likely as any other religion.

I am a heartfealt believer in there being no whale in my attic.

If you, too, believe that there is no whale in your attic, please join my religion, sell all your worldly posessions and donate via paypal to http://awhaleinatticism-religion.co.uk

Paganism
If you guarantee I won't be arrested for sacrificing a cow, or killing old people with spears so that they may go to Valhalla, that is.

I am a heartfealt believer in there being no whale in my attic.
I demand proof!

Just a comment to the OP -

"Believe in (our) God(s)" is one of the central rules of most of those religions... one which is impossible to just "decide to follow."

Hey there Grave..!! :) Good to hear your voice of reason and wisdom.

Religion is very simple. (HOW MANY TIMES have we been over this..!!?)

Religion (as a noun) is a belief system, the "ingredients" of which are entirely
at the users choosing for whatever purpose the user decides to use it for.

Religion (as an active verb) is dealing with the world of reality (which includes
the "inner world" of one's thoughts and perceptions) with one's belief system.

The primary reason "religion the noun" exists, and must exist for ALL lifeforms,
is that no creature (lifeform) can deal with the utter chaos that would
proceed from a "belief" that there is NO consistency in the world where
EVERYTHING is a "special case". Some things MUST be generalized
into "beliefs" so that they can be NOT-DEALT-WITH (temporarily ignored) to
make room for "productive efforts" that actually provide survival benefit to
said lifeform.

The primary reason "religion the verb" exists, is because positive action is
required for survival, and NOT "applying what you believe to be TRUE"
(aka "doing" religion) would waste so much time and energy (by treating
everything as a special case) that survival would be veritably impossible.



That is the definition of "heaven". It's NOT some peaceful cloud ridden
playground and shuffleboard retirement community. It's having affected the
world in the way you wish and knowing that fact when you "leave this world".



If life is not worth living, stop now,.. there is only more of this unworthy
activity for you, and that would be bad for your spirit, and bad for everyone
else's spirit.

Of course, I'm not talking to YOU, who think that life IS worth living. :)

Shalom, aloha, and mahalo nui to those who know that belief is mandatory,
that religion (verb and noun) is inherent in all life, and that it doesn't make a
whit of difference whether you acknowledge the inevitability of those facts or
not.

The world will carry on after you, whatever you choose to do and believe.

But what you DO shows your beliefs, and your religion, and IS your "legacy"
given by you to the world.

-Iakeo

Mahalo â nui, my friend, and Aloha kâua!

"It is" good to hear from you, old friend. :)

I looked through your comments, and every point you made, could be agreed with in two tiny words, mon ami.... "It is" as you say "It is".

I saw the same thread on the VBulletin Boards created by my friend, and I decided to bring it here. The thread on the VBulletin Board got a lot of feedback.

Well, anyway,

I challenge all Athiests/Agnostics (this challenge is, ofcourse, optional) to choose to practice any officially recognized major religions of the World for one week straight, without violating any rules of that Religion, and notice any difference in their lives.

The Religions you may choose from are -

Christianity
Judaism
Islam
Hinduism
Buddhism
Shinto
Jainism
Baha'i Faith
Zoroastrianism
Paganism
Polythieism

--

I know there are many other religions out there, but since these are the Major ones, I decided to best put them in here.

So all you Athiests and Agnostics! Choose one of the Religions above, any Branch, and practice it for one week and state it here if you noticed a positive effect or a negative effect.

Try it! It will be a good challenge to undertake, and I am sure it will be fun.

Many atheists and agnostics were once members of these religions and practiced them with fervor. As Grave_n_Idle has pointed out before, many of the members of these religions are agnostic.

I was a fundamentalist Pentecostal/Holiness Christian for 21 years. I now care more about living in harmony with all my fellow humans, than properly following a set of rules dictated by people vying for control.

A positive effect of psychosis is an innate happiness with your delusion. Have also studied all of the other religions mentioned, including Voodun and Native American Shamanism.

The basic need for acceptance is the bond for all religions, communities, ideaologies and governments. The basic desire to rule is what divides these into ever smaller groups. "The Lucifer Principle" by Howard Bloom is both intriguing and thought provoking in its interpretations of history and what may be possible through capitalizing on humanitys need for acceptance.

Hair color (or colour) is a condition of hair that all hair has.

Bald is a condition of the scalp, not a condition of the hair.

Are we talking about hair (a physical manifestation of the scalp, aka the
peculiars of ones beliefs), or are we talking about the scalp (the source of
hair, aka the reasons for and "inspiration" of one's beliefs)..?

Most atheists see no need for "hair", as it can't be necessary if it's optional
(as in the case of baldness), but they think that those with hair really should
shear off their hair, as they're just carrying around an unnecessary vestige.

..but we all NEED and inherently have a scalp.

Religion is the scalp,.. not the hair.


-Iakeo

Wait, what? Atheists have scalps so atheism is a religion?

Wait, what? Atheists have scalps so atheism is a religion?

No, he's saying that because we all have beliefs of some form or another we must be religious, because we follow a moral code. He re-defines religion. Very clever. Just not very convincing.

Ok then...once again, for your benefit.

Religions require belief.

Christianity requires belief in Christ.

Islam requires belief in Allah.

Whether its Odin, or Christ, or Allah, the requirement is to believe.

There is no such requirement in Atheism, in fact, the only requirement is that you do NOT believe.

Atheism is NOT a religion, in fact..it is the absence of a religion.

Ughhhh... here we go again..

An atheists "belief" is that "believing the tenets of a religion is not necessary".

That IS a belief.

Do they have "faith" in this "belief"..?

Yes,.. borne out by the verifiable FACT that no one REALLY HAS to believe
the tenets of a religion to exist as a person in this world.

Thus,.. Do atheists have a "faith"..!!?

YES..!!

That some choose to call this faith of theirs a "religion" (an active faith in
service of a belief system) is irrelevent to whether an atheist claims
their "faith and belief" is a religion ofr not.

Now,.. get back to freakin' work being effective people, and accept that
people can disagree on matters such as these..! :)

-Iakeo

Mahalo â nui, my friend, and Aloha kâua!

"It is" good to hear from you, old friend. :)

I looked through your comments, and every point you made, could be agreed with in two tiny words, mon ami.... "It is" as you say "It is".

Your olelo hawai'i is most likely better than mine. I need to work on that.

You know, the extreme complication of such a ludicrously simple matter
as "religion" constantly amazes me.

I think sometimes that people feel that they have to find the "corpus" of
religion,.. perform an exhaustive vivisectional autopsy on it,.. record the
screams of the victim for later linguistic analysis,.. tape the removal of the
individual organs for the inevitable "reality show" to air next season,.. consult
experts in geology and astrophysics specifically BECAUSE their areas of
expertise have nothing whatsoever to do with the questions at hand,.. and
finally consult with the legal authorities as to the "politically correct"
conclussion that SHOULD (and must for crowd-control reasons) by arrived at.

Then again,.. that IS the human way to do nearly anything,.. so I shold get
over it.

-Iakeo

Originally Posted by Iakeonui
Hair color (or colour) is a condition of hair that all hair has.

Bald is a condition of the scalp, not a condition of the hair.

Are we talking about hair (a physical manifestation of the scalp, aka the
peculiars of ones beliefs), or are we talking about the scalp (the source of
hair, aka the reasons for and "inspiration" of one's beliefs)..?

Most atheists see no need for "hair", as it can't be necessary if it's optional
(as in the case of baldness), but they think that those with hair really should
shear off their hair, as they're just carrying around an unnecessary vestige.

..but we all NEED and inherently have a scalp.

Religion is the scalp,.. not the hair.


-Iakeo


Wait, what? Atheists have scalps so atheism is a religion?

Atheists can remove their hair, but removing their scalp is not advisable, and
DEFINATELY not comfortable, or good for normal productive activity in real
life.

If an atheist insist on calling "scalp" "hair", then they deserve to be laughed
at.

-Iakeo

Ughhhh... here we go again..

An atheists "belief" is that "believing the tenets of a religion is not necessary".

That IS a belief.

That's an oppinion not a belief (and it is one that not all Atheists share).

Do they have "faith" in this belief"..?

Yes,.. borne out by the verifiable FACT that no one REALLY HAS to believe
the tenets of a religion to exist as a person in this world.



They may be of that conviction. But that's not faith. And that oppinion is also not shared by all Atheists.



Thus,.. Do atheists have a "faith"..!!?

YES..!!



No.

That some choose to call this faith of theirs a "religion" (an active faith in
service of a belief system) is irrelevent to whether an atheist claims
their "faith and belief" is a religion ofr not.

Which they don't need, because they lack both.

Now,.. get back to freakin' work being effective people, and accept that
people can disagree on matters such as these..! :)

-Iakeo

Work? Me? Heathen!!

Originally Posted by Dinaverg
Wait, what? Atheists have scalps so atheism is a religion?


No, he's saying that because we all have beliefs of some form or another we must be religious, because we follow a moral code. He re-defines religion. Very clever. Just not very convincing.


I'm not redefining religion to myself. That is what religion has always meant to me.

I don't try to convince anyone to accept my beliefs. I tell others about what I believe, and they can do with that information what they wish.

-Iakeo

Ughhhh... here we go again..

An atheists "belief" is that "believing the tenets of a religion is not necessary".

That IS a belief.

Johnny has an apple. Christina has a banana. Peter has a pear. Anne has nothing. Following your reasoning however, that nothing is also a piece of fruit.

That's an oppinion not a belief (and it is one that not all Atheists share).
What is the difference between an opinion and a belief? (i.e. "You suck!")

Your olelo hawai'i is most likely better than mine. I need to work on that.


Basically, I was aiming for "thanks very much" and "may there be friendship between us".

I'm paddling in the shallows of warm tropics... this is about as deep as I get. :)

(Although, I do love the way the words are built - like 'mahalo' being 'Ma' = In; 'hâ' = breath; and 'alo' = presence, front, face... "(May you be) in (Divine) Breath." It's very poetic... and I love symbolism in language).


Then again,.. that IS the human way to do nearly anything,.. so I shold get
over it.

-Iakeo

Indeed. Agree..... Disagree.... both sides of the same coin. The sooner we learn that we ALL carry that coin, no matter which side we show each other, the better. :)

Originally Posted by Iakeonui
Ughhhh... here we go again..

An atheists "belief" is that "believing the tenets of a religion is not necessary".

That IS a belief.

That's an oppinion not a belief (and it is one that not all Atheists share).

That sentence is my opinion. The fact that all atheists believe that the
tenets of a religion need not be followed is, indeed, a fact.

How can any atheist say that ANY religious tenet should, OF NECESSITY, be
followed, if they have no belief in ANY religion?



Do they have "faith" in this belief"..?

Yes,.. borne out by the verifiable FACT that no one REALLY HAS to believe
the tenets of a religion to exist as a person in this world.

They may be of that conviction. But that's not faith. And that oppinion is also not shared by all Atheists.

They hold that "conviction" (which IS a form of faith by the way) because it
is TRUE..!!

Once again, show me an atheist that does not believe that religion is not
necessary and who has faith in that belief, and I'll show you a non-atheist.




Thus,.. Do atheists have a "faith"..!!?

YES..!!

No.

Why?



That some choose to call this faith of theirs a "religion" (an active faith in
service of a belief system) is irrelevent to whether an atheist claims
their "faith and belief" is a religion ofr not.

Which they don't need, because they lack both.

They believe that they don't need religion, and faith that they're right?



Now,.. get back to freakin' work being effective people, and accept that
people can disagree on matters such as these..!

-Iakeo

Work? Me? Heathen!!

Have fun with that. :)

-Iakeo

Johnny has an apple. Christina has a banana. Peter has a pear. Anne has nothing. Following your reasoning however, that nothing is also a piece of fruit.
No, following his reasoning, and using this poor analogy, Anne's fruit is a fruit *about* the other fruits.

EDIT:
Okay, I suck at analogies. The "fruit" in your analogy is a specific belief, not beliefs in general. No one lacks beliefs.

Originally Posted by Iakeonui
Ughhhh... here we go again..

An atheists "belief" is that "believing the tenets of a religion is not necessary".

That IS a belief.

Johnny has an apple. Christina has a banana. Peter has a pear. Anne has nothing. Following your reasoning however, that nothing is also a piece of fruit.

That "nothing" is a "place" where a "thing" COULD be.

Johnny has that place occupied by an apple.
Christina has that place occupied by a banana.
Anna has that place occupied by (apparently) something other than a fruit (air?).

They all have that place to occupy.

Religion is the PLACE, not the fruit.

-Iakeo

Originally Posted by Iakeonui
Your olelo hawai'i is most likely better than mine. I need to work on that.

Basically, I was aiming for "thanks very much" and "may there be friendship between us".

I'm paddling in the shallows of warm tropics... this is about as deep as I get.

(Although, I do love the way the words are built - like 'mahalo' being 'Ma' = In; 'hâ' = breath; and 'alo' = presence, front, face... "(May you be) in (Divine) Breath." It's very poetic... and I love symbolism in language).


I wish your "symbolic" construction of the meaning behind "mahalo" was real
(which it MAY be) but I've not really seen anything that confidently says it is.

There's also the "construction" of "Haole" (or Ha'ole) (foreigner) as:
ha=breath, 'ole=not(negativeParticle), meaning "Not a Breather", or more
loosely, "Not one who 'kisses' like us (traditional nose touching in greeting
where the parties place their noses side by side and 'breath each other's air
[spirit]').

You can do similar things with nearly all hawai'ian words, and it can be
incredibly inciteful, but as to it's validity,.. I don't know. :)

But I do WANT to BELIEVE..!!

Thanks Mulder....


-Iakeo

I wish your "symbolic" construction of the meaning behind "mahalo" was real
(which it MAY be) but I've not really seen anything that confidently says it is.

There's also the "construction" of "Haole" (or Ha'ole) (foreigner) as:
ha=breath, 'ole=not(negativeParticle), meaning "Not a Breather", or more
loosely, "Not one who 'kisses' like us (traditional nose touching in greeting
where the parties place their noses side by side and 'breath each other's air
[spirit]').

You can do similar things with nearly all hawai'ian words, and it can be
incredibly inciteful, but as to it's validity,.. I don't know. :)

But I do WANT to BELIEVE..!!

Thanks Mulder....


-Iakeo

http://www.geocities.com/~olelo/

especially: http://www.geocities.com/~olelo/shelties/mahalo-aloha.html

Ke aloha nô me ka mahalo kâua!

That sentence is my opinion. The fact that all atheists believe that the
tenets of a religion need not be followed is, indeed, a fact.

How can any atheist say that ANY religious tenet should, OF NECESSITY, be
followed, if they have no belief in ANY religion?



It is obvious (to me) that for many people religion is a necessity. Therefore, I, as an Atheist, can say: "It is my opinion that it is necessary for some to believe in the tenets of a religion", which would contradict with "It is not a necessetity to believe in the tenets of a religion".


They hold that "conviction" (which IS form of faith by the way) because it is
TRUE..!!



Faith may be a 101% conviction, but a conviction is not necessarily faith. But maybe we're just playing semantics here. I'll have to think about that.



Once again, show me an atheist that does not think that religion is not
necessary and who is convinced of this opinion, and I'll show you a non-atheist.



I have shown you one above.



Why?



Explained above.



How do lack a belief that they don't need religion, and faith that they're right?



I'm not sure what you mean here. What I meant earlier is, that since I've shown you that Atheists DO lack faith&belief they don't need to call religion different, because they don't have any.



Have fun with that. :)

-Iakeo

I had. Thanks. :)

That "nothing" is a "place" where a "thing" COULD be.

Johnny has that place occupied by an apple.
Christina has that place occupied by a banana.
Anna has that place occupied by (apparently) something other than a fruit (air?).

They all have that place to occupy.

Religion is the PLACE, not the fruit.

-Iakeo

Or, alternatively, Anne has different 'fruit-ness' to the other three, who all have the same 'fruit-ness', expressed in different fruits...

;)

What is the difference between an opinion and a belief? (i.e. "You suck!")

A belief requires faith? Dunno. Difficult to explain.

Where's the belief in "I think that Black & White 2 is boring"?

The "fruit" in your analogy is a specific belief, not beliefs in general. No one lacks beliefs.

No, but you can easily lack one. I do not believe in little green kobolds, invisible pink unicorns, invaders from the planet Zog living among us and an infiinite amount of other nonsenical things people can make up. You can *argue* that that nonbelieving too *is* a belief, while the silly things I never even thought of yet are the things on which I truly lack belief - but why make the distinction at all ?

No, but you can easily lack one. I do not believe in little green kobolds, invisible pink unicorns, invaders from the planet Zog living among us and an infiinite amount of other nonsenical things people can make up. You can *argue* that that nonbelieving too *is* a belief, while the silly things I never even thought of yet are the things on which I truly lack belief - but why make the distinction at all ?

Kobolds aren't green.

Kobolds aren't green.

How about mutated poisonous one?

Kobolds aren't green.
HERITIC!!!1!!

I'm not redefining religion to myself. That is what religion has always meant to me.

I don't try to convince anyone to accept my beliefs. I tell others about what I believe, and they can do with that information what they wish.

-Iakeo

Cool, in that case. Which means that when you say "Atheism is a religion" and I say "Atheism isn't a religion" we both are right.

No, but you can easily lack one. I do not believe in little green kobolds, invisible pink unicorns, invaders from the planet Zog living among us and an infiinite amount of other nonsenical things people can make up. You can *argue* that that nonbelieving too *is* a belief, while the silly things I never even thought of yet are the things on which I truly lack belief - but why make the distinction at all ?
Right. But Iakeo's statement (in the reply you responded to) was that the atheist has a belief about religions, so is not lacking in beliefs. She might not have the fruit of your analogy, she might have a carrot (or any of the entire range of edible beliefs). She can never go hungry.

Just saying your analogy does not fit what Iakeo put forth.

Non-believing is not a belief (I would equate that with no knowledge); disbelieving is, though (belief in a negative or false state for the object).

Has anyone tried it?

:D

I was baptised Catholic; never practiced a day in my life.

When I was a teenager, I had a brief fling with Buddhism before deciding what I truly believe and it is this: I'm a Secularist - I have no need for religion and think that it is completely frivolous and an incredible waste of one's life. It also seems to be the cause of too many wars and discrimination.

I'm content with my beliefs.

Nah, I did that for the first decade of my life and got nowhere.

A belief requires faith? Dunno. Difficult to explain.

Where's the belief in "I think that Black & White 2 is boring"?
The belief is in "I think..." that Black and White 2 is a boring thing. Like "I think..." that god exists. On another occasion, Black and White 2 may not be so boring, it might even be fascinating, so the boring part is in no way an absolute thing ...eh? You might hold this belief for a while, and adhere strongly to it... or drop it when you have a new belief about Black and White 2.

The belief is in "I think..." that Black and White 2 is a boring thing. Like "I think..." that god exists. On another occasion, Black and White 2 may not be so boring, it might even be fascinating, so the boring part is in no way an absolute thing ...eh? You might hold this belief for a while, and adhere strongly to it... or drop it when you have a new belief about Black and White 2.

I never claimed it was absolute - it is an subjective opinion after all. But where is the faith in this opinion? There is none, it is solely based on my experience with the game.

Someone saying "I think that god exists" would rely on faith, even though his belief may have been started by an experience.

Has anyone suggested that the religious try being atheists for a week and see if that has a positive or negative effect on their lives?

Has anyone suggested that the religious try being atheists for a week and see if that has a positive or negative effect on their lives?

There's a whole thread about that.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=463057 (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=463057)

I never claimed it was absolute - it is an subjective opinion after all. But where is the faith in this opinion? There is none, it is solely based on my experience with the game.

Someone saying "I think that god exists" would rely on faith, even though his belief may have been started by an experience.
Ah.... Black and White 2 is a game; neat. Faith is another matter, kind of like a step back from belief --it is belief in the absolute certainty of the object of belief. I agree, there probably is none in your opinion that the game is boring.

Someone saying, "God exists," has faith. Someone saying, "I think God exists," is expressing a belief. Both are holding an opinion that "God exists."

Ah.... Black and White 2 is a game; neat. Faith is another matter, kind of like a step back from belief --it is belief in the absolute certainty of the object of belief. I agree, there probably is none in your opinion that the game is boring.

Someone saying, "God exists," has faith. Someone saying, "I think God exists," is expressing a belief. Both are holding an opinion that "God exists."

Actually it is a game where you play a god. Clicky (http://www.gamespot.com/pc/strategy/blackwhite2/index.html?q=black%20and%20white).

I made the distinction between belief and opinion/conviction because I think there is great difference with a religious belief and a non-religious belief. I'm not sure if I adequately stated that in this thread, because I've been posting a lot between both threads.

I coudl do Buddhism.

I can't think of anything I do anyways that violates it other than drink and occasionally smoke pot.

However, I'll start after this coming Friday (I'm attending a school formal and booze comes with the ticket price. Also I'm attending a CD release party on Thursday. These are the only two events in quite some time where drinking will be almost standard and I haven't drank since New Year's otherwise)

I was going to spout off at some of the idiotic responses, but decided to turn the other cheek.

I wish those of the various religions would practice their beliefs all the time! I wish they would read their books, and a whole bunch of history.

The amount of death and suffering in the world perpetrated under the auspices of religion is astounding.

I live my life clean without benifit of believing in tree spirits or Gods. I hope that most of the other dorks who responded here do the same, instead of logging off here to return to pirating music, playing online games with the help of cheat codes, or imbibing illegal substances.

Most of the major damage that I have seen in the US over the last 10 years has been perpetrated/ignored by those of faith directly through their voting. No form of universal health care equals 18000 preventable deaths a year in the US, who's talking about it? A boy had his life support ended AGAINST the parents wishes in Texas during the week that Congress got itself really fired up about Shivo. Where were the protests in Texas? Any protest would have been foolish of course, keeping the dead alive instead of using the resources to keep the alive, alive, is crazy. Of course that is some of what religion boils down to. Believing instead of thinking.

So, practice a religion for a week, and see if you find a better way to live.

Don't dare beleive anything anyone tells you to do or think because of religion. Read the book, do it yourself, maybe take some guidance.

Think of it as religios Russion Roulette. If there is no God, when you die, you are dead, so if you practice or not, it doesn't matter. If any one or more of the religions is right, then isn't it worth giving it a go for the payoff at the end ?, reincarnation at a higher level, a long stint in Heaven, happy hunting grounds, whatever.

Then you can graduate and become an Athiest. You will know that we all get only one life. Just one. Nothing better at the end to balance a crappy life, nothing horrible at the end for the evil lives. You must allow everyone a chance to lead their lives as they see fit, as long as it doesn't mess up someone elses. Be good to each other. Be true to yourself, so you dont waste your mental stay here with guilt, regret, sadness. Being as decent as you can will make your stay here much better.

Gotta go be good to my family. It was a bit scattered, and will probably do little good. I hope someone gets the point tho. Good luck, and good life to you.

I'm glad this topic is of hot debate. Yayyy, lol.

I'm sure that religion can sometimes be a positive influence on peoples lives. But that doesnt make the beliefs on which a religion is based true. The belief is kinda key to having a religion, I mean would an atheist being a muslim for a week gain anything from praying 5 times a day to a god they know doesnt exist?

Since when did "polytheism" become a religion?

Polytheism jsut means a religion where more than one entity is considered supremly divine. Including polytheism on your list would be like grouing most of the other religions one that list under "monotheism" (where there is a single supreme entity). So if you had to include polytheism, it should have been one of two options: poly or mono theistic religions

I

I challenge all Athiests/Agnostics (this challenge is, ofcourse, optional) to choose to practice any officially recognized major religions of the World for one week straight, without violating any rules of that Religion, and notice any difference in their lives.



As an Animist, I have no problem believing in multiple gods at the same time. Ok, I think that they are powerful spirits and some people claim that they are the only powerful spirit but I don't have to agree on that point. God or spirit are just labels. I don't want to serve any particular spirit. If other people do then that is fine with me.

We are a fairly easy going lot :-)

I coudl do Buddhism.

I can't think of anything I do anyways that violates it other than drink and occasionally smoke pot.

Oh? Do you follow the eightfold path? This involves:
Right Understanding
Right Thought
Right Speech
Right Action
Right Livelihood
Right Effort
Right Mindfulness
Right Concentration

And I have to disagree with the assertion that Buddhism is not a religion. Even disregarding everying Mayhana Buddhism throws into the mix (gods, the bodhisattva ideal), Theravada Buddhism does have a religious goal. The whole point of Buddhism is to cease ones suffering, and leaving the cycle of birth and rebirth known as "Samsara." If you do not believe that one can obtain the state of extinguishing the ego (essentially the concept of self), known as "nirvana" to cease suffering and escape from the endless cycle of Samsara, why practice Buddhism?

What about onomatapeia? You need a high preist for that don't you? How aboout official holidays?


Ononmatapeia eh?

Do not...splash, vroom, ribbit covet creeeek your neibhbour's spouse!

Or fear the lord...Smash!

I'm sure that religion can sometimes be a positive influence on peoples lives. But that doesnt make the beliefs on which a religion is based true. The belief is kinda key to having a religion, I mean would an atheist being a muslim for a week gain anything from praying 5 times a day to a god they know doesnt exist?
And what if the belief is "love your brother"? That is certainly 'not true' (not a truth in itself).

This thread is a disgrace!
It doesn't mention pastafarianism wich is the only one to believe in.
All hail Flying spaghetti monster!

(www.venganza.org)