NationStates Jolt Archive

Okay, I've never actually been to a full Tridentine Mass (I have been to one where half of it was in Latin and the other half was in English) but would dearly love to go to one.

I have read about them and seen them on television and they just seem so much more beautiful and holy in comparison to the Novus Ordo Mass, especially some that I have been to.

I mean, at the last Feast of the Immaculate Conception I went to Church with my flatmate. The local primary Catholic school was all there (like some 300 pupils) and then us. The Mass started but when it came to kneeling (after the Holy, Holy, Holy prayer and after Lamb of God etc), only me and my friend knelt (which the Missal actually says that you should). When we first knelt down one little girl in front of us turned around and also went down to kneel after seeing us. She was next to a teacher who, seeing her about to kneel, made her stand up and actually told her off for kneeling. That really incensed me because the teacher was in the wrong and should also be kneeling.

I am also disgusted by the very bad habit that some like to bring into Catholic Churches. The very evangelical American protestant thing of having the hands out in prayer rather (like the Priest) instead of clasped together (as is traditional for lay Catholics). This annoys me because it is not a Catholic thing.

At least in the Tridentine Mass the proper etiquette that one should follow at a Catholic Mass is enforced. The Novus Ordo Mass allows to many things that are offensive and, if we wish to be petty, bad etiquette.

Okay, rant over.

The Tridentine Mass was mostly discontinued because, well, people don't speak Latin. The original reason for it being in Latin was because Latin was the generic language of Christendom, a bit like French in the 1700s - anyone, from any country, could communicate with foreigners via Latin.

Wherever two or three are gathered in my name, there I am in their midst. All masses are good if they worship God.

The Tridentine Mass was mostly discontinued because, well, people don't speak Latin. The original reason for it being in Latin was because Latin was the generic language of Christendom, a bit like French in the 1700s - anyone, from any country, could communicate with foreigners via Latin.

It sounds so much better in Latin. And, after attending Mass for so many years I am sure a lay person would know what is going on and what the words mean. I mean, the Missal could be printed in both vernacular and Latin for the lay person to understand.

And, anyways, if it was just to get rid of Latin then why has virtually all Tridentine etiquette been lost or ignored and not enforced?

Wherever two or three are gathered in my name, there I am in their midst. All masses are good if they worship God.

Are you a practising Catholic?

And can I ask why Mass was not given capitalisation?!

It sounds so much better in Latin. And, after attending Mass for so many years I am sure a lay person would know what is going on and what the words mean. I mean, the Missal could be printed in both vernacular and Latin for the lay person to understand.

And, anyways, if it was just to get rid of Latin then why has virtually all Tridentine etiquette been lost or ignored and not enforced? I don't know. To be honest, I'm not particularly knowledgeable about the history of the Mass… :( *is ignorant*

I've seen it. Feild Trip took Latin for two years at a Catholic prep-school. It is truely awsome. But as shows go the bestt I've seen was full regalia Russian Orthodox at Zygorsk. Close second though...

I've seen it. Feild Trip took Latin for two years at a Catholic prep-school. It is truely awsome. But as shows go the bestt I've seen was full regalia Russian Orthodox at Zygorsk. Close second though...

Hahaha, well disregarding the Russian Orthodox one, I'm glad you so approved of the Latin Mass.

Are you a practising Catholic?

And can I ask why Mass was not given capitalisation?!
I think he was making a joke, his name being NSJesus and all. (And forgive me if I'm just stating the obvious, I haven't been around long enough to know anything about, well, anyone.)

I'm not a Catholic at all, but I do agree that too much of what was once required has been tossed aside in favour of more modern customs. Some things are understandable, but too many things that were integral to proper worship, and made sense being integral to worship, have been dropped or forgotten by most. That goes for many religions in the modern world, not just Catholicism.

I'm not a Catholic at all, but I do agree that too much of what was once required has been tossed aside in favour of more modern customs. Some things are understandable, but too many things that were integral to proper worship, and made sense being integral to worship, have been dropped or forgotten by most. That goes for many religions in the modern world, not just Catholicism.

I agree and think this is a very valid comment. Even those who are not Catholic can see what damage this new type of Mass has done and is doing. Whilst the Mass itself is not wrong, people are allowed to do things during it that are and are offensive. That is what the damage is.

Are you a practising Catholic?

And can I ask why Mass was not given capitalisation?!
'Course not. Everybody knows that Jesus is a Jew.

Besides, if s/he were a practising Catholic, they wouldn't be attempting to raise a false idol all over the forums.

May we burn them?

Can I just ask that everyone is serious in this thread please.

Are you a practising Catholic?

And can I ask why Mass was not given capitalisation?!

Pot.Kettle.Black.

I am a NPC (non practicing Catholic ;) who doesn't like anagrams) and go to Catholic school.
Mass in Latin would be an experience for me that sounds interesting. I would love to see/hear/go to one.


Oh, another thing: I find it funny when my religion teacher,a Deacon, says married priests will never happen.
Didn't people think the same of the Latin Mass and permanent deacons (which he is)?
Anyone else think there are similarities?

Can I just ask that everyone is serious in this thread please.
Okay, then I apologize about the Jew comment and burning NSJesus. But the false idol charge still stands.

And what I was told in class last year when somebody asked about the rarity of Latin Masses (I'm a religious student) is that the largest push towards the modern Mass was simply that Latin was no longer widely taught or understood. Not that the commoners really understood Latin back in the old days anyway, but at least they knew Mass well enough from childhood on to understand what was going on.

Oh, another thing: I find it funny when my religion teacher,a Deacon, says married priests will never happen.
Didn't people think the same of the Latin Mass and permanent deacons (which he is)?
Anyone else think there are similarities?

What people thought Latin Mass would never happen?! Because that is what I think you are saying in that post. Could you please explain for a dumb idiot like me please.

Hahaha, well disregarding the Russian Orthodox one, I'm glad you so approved of the Latin Mass.

Well I'm not a terribly religious person so I demand a good show. The Latin Mass is a great show. But the Monks at Zygorsk sing Acappelle for half an hour in front of the church before the service and nobody does inscence like the orthodox. The dunking thing was a bit weird to me though...

Oh, another thing: I find it funny when my religion teacher,a Deacon, says married priests will never happen.
Didn't people think the same of the Latin Mass and permanent deacons (which he is)?
Anyone else think there are similarities? Not really. Apart from anything else, there are damn good financial reasons for a celibate priesthood.

What people thought Latin Mass would never happen?! Because that is what I think you are saying in that post. Could you please explain for a dumb idiot like me please.

i meant that it would change. sorry about that.
did anyone who lived during the time of Latin Masses think they would be changed?
i don't seem to think so.

Not really. Apart from anything else, there are damn good financial reasons for a celibate priesthood.

financial reasons??? wha...?
please care to explain.

i meant that it would change. sorry about that.
did anyone who lived during the time of Latin Masses think they would be changed?
i don't seem to think so.



financial reasons??? wha...?
please care to explain.
Partly because the livelihood of monks and nuns, and therefore I would suppose priests, is supported by the Church. That's part of the vow of poverty -- you live within a very meagre means, but they'll take care of you.

It would be quite a stretch if suddenly the Church was also obligated to take care of the families of the priests and the nuns.

Simonist']Partly because the livelihood of monks and nuns, and therefore I would suppose priests, is supported by the Church. That's part of the vow of poverty -- you live within a very meagre means, but they'll take care of you.

It would be quite a stretch if suddenly the Church was also obligated to take care of the families of the priests and the nuns.

if a priest has a painting collection and sells it, he keeps the cash.
priests have possessions. poverty is about sharing and extravangancies.


can someone educated respond on this?

It sounds so much better in Latin. And, after attending Mass for so many years I am sure a lay person would know what is going on and what the words mean. I mean, the Missal could be printed in both vernacular and Latin for the lay person to understand.

And, anyways, if it was just to get rid of Latin then why has virtually all Tridentine etiquette been lost or ignored and not enforced?
It may “sound” better but the whole reason for the mass being in Latin was to facilitate communication
To hold onto that for purely tradition is ignoring the intent of its inception.

If you wanted to continue on with the idea behind the Latin mass, English would be about as close as you get I guess.

if a priest has a painting collection and sells it, he keeps the cash.
priests have possessions. poverty is about sharing and extravangancies.


can someone educated respond on this?

Hey there *waves* someone educated. Actually you're wrong. At least if it's a catholic Preist. They don't even own the cars they drive. Of course that also means that they don't pay insurance. Episcopalians get to own stuff though...

if a priest has a painting collection and sells it, he keeps the cash.
priests have possessions. poverty is about sharing and extravangancies.


can someone educated respond on this?
I believe it's more that monks and nuns live in the pseudo-poverty, relying on donations that are shared out among all those in their groups. If someone donated a loaf of bread to a monk, that monk would go back to his group (I forget what they're called) and every monk would get an equal piece of it. Priests, on the other hand, are provided for by the Church. Well, more like by the donations in the church (the donation plates and such).

I may be wrong, but I think that's how it goes. The priests are in charge of each individual church, so they take the money from the donations to that church and pay for the stuff like repairs, the ceremonial supplies, etc. and probably takes a small proportion to pay for his own food, his robes, etc., whereas monks and nuns aren't really at the head of any church, so they depend on the donations to their group specifically. (Again, that might very well not be how it goes, but it seems to me that that'd be the way the Church would do things.)

if a priest has a painting collection and sells it, he keeps the cash.
priests have possessions. poverty is about sharing and extravangancies.


can someone educated respond on this?
Did I say he didn't get to keep cash from selling possessions? No. You put words in my mouth, twit.

Can somebody educated please slap some open-mindedness into this guy?

I'm sorry, maybe as a student in a convent who will someday most likely be joining the Order, I really don't know what the hell I'm talking about in terms of vows of poverty. What's that? You have no fucking clue either? You have no REAL experience in the matter, whereas I do?

That's what I thought.

Hey there *waves* someone educated. Actually you're wrong. At least if it's a catholic Preist. They don't even own the cars they drive. Of course that also means that they don't pay insurance. Episcopalians get to own stuff though...
At least somebody has a clue what they're talking about.

Actually I still correspond with my old HS principal. He's like the #2 guy in the Xaverian order. Church owns his house, Church owns his car, I don't know if they technically own the shirt on his back. I suppose if a relative died and he inherited the money he would own the cash he got from that.....

The Tridentine Mass was mostly discontinued because, well, people don't speak Latin. The original reason for it being in Latin was because Latin was the generic language of Christendom, a bit like French in the 1700s - anyone, from any country, could communicate with foreigners via Latin.

I go to a Latin Mass every week, and the reason it was discontinued was because liberals have gotten into the church and have tried to, basically, destroy what made it catholic. The Novus Ordo mass can not be likened at all to the traditional, latin mass at all. Its more like modern protestant religions than real catholicism. The Orthodox church is more catholic than the Novus Ordo. And even though the mass is in Latin, it is very much like English and is easy to comprehend what is going on, and, in my missal and all others made for the traditional mass, the vernacular is printed on the other page, so throughout the mass you always know what is going on.