NationStates Jolt Archive

In history, there are many forms of 'manly men', ranging from the flower-arranging samurai and silk-swaddled knight to the raw meat-eating, rawhide-wearing Mongolians and cowboys.

This poll is to figure out whether or not you prefer men to be rough around the edges or slightly more effete, and if there's a general bias between men and women in their selection of how they want a manly man to be.

An Article on a Real Man's Man (http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=real_men)

today, the "manly man" is obsolete imho.
remember that nerds rule the earth *nods*

well...i could kill a man from 50 yards.... but its not really necessasary....im probably somewhere in between

No, if i liked manly men then i'd be alone for several reasons which bored enough to post.

1)they'd be straight or
2)they'd be that annoying type of person who'd be macho enough to be abusive and i can't take abuse from people i put trust in it makes me irrationally angry.
3)they'd be far too manly to put up with my mad ramblings, prhases, vaguely tourettic outbursts and lingering bitterness.

I'm done... you can have this picture cos i've still got it in my cache from the peechland thread.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v453/lordfenix/YOUWILLSUBMIT.jpg

No, if i liked manly men then i'd be alone for several reasons which bored enough to post.

1)they'd be straight or
2)they'd be that annoying type of person who'd be macho enough to be abusive and i can't take abuse from people i put trust in it makes me irrationally angry.
3)they'd be far too manly to put up with my mad ramblings, prhases, vaguely tourettic outbursts and lingering bitterness.

I'm done... you can have this picture cos i've still got it in my cache from the peechland thread.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v453/lordfenix/YOUWILLSUBMIT.jpg

Right I know this is totally off topic but why do gay dudes go for effeminate guys and gay gals go for butches? I mean I figure if I was attracted to guys the last thing I'd want was one that acted like a chick. Does'nt dating a girly guy give you doubts about your homosexuality? Like when my freind Mandy was still Bi I told her I figured she was gay because all of her boyfreinds were pretty much pansies. (not that her gf is butch really Mandy scored a hottie but Mandy is a PIMP!)

Both categories are manly men, though. It's just that manly men who wear silk, perfume, and regularly engage in arranging flowers, writing poetry, practicing calligraphy, &c. would today be considered to be either gay or metrosexual.

Whereas, a thousand years ago, a man was not a real man unless he could do those things. Moreover, calling such a man a 'girly-man' would have the likely result of one's blood being spilled all over the insulted....

The Mongolians, by contrast, were pretty much what we, today, would consider to be manly men. They rode horses, lived freely, and got to engage all of the behaviors that your average couch-potato, (American) football watching man would delight in. Or American football player, for that matter, who is, today, considered by many to be the epitome of the manly-man.

I personally can't stand to be around soft men. I mean half of them dressed like metrosexuals which is weird enough. But when they start to share their feelings, ugh. Give me a lumberjack who wears flannel shirt and can build a house with his own two hands anyday!

Right I know this is totally off topic but why do gay dudes go for effeminate guys and gay gals go for butches? I mean I figure if I was attracted to guys the last thing I'd want was one that acted like a chick. Does'nt dating a girly guy give you doubts about your homosexuality? Like when my freind Mandy was still Bi I told her I figured she was gay because all of her boyfreinds were pretty much pansies. (not that her gf is butch really Mandy scored a hottie but Mandy is a PIMP!)
That's generalizing. I know for a fact that a lot of gay guys really like the 'straight guy'/butch fetish.

I personally can't stand to be around soft men. I mean half of them dressed like metrosexuals which is weird enough. But when they start to share their feelings, ugh. Give me a lumberjack who wears flannel shirt and can build a house with his own two hands anyday!
I concur.

Right I know this is totally off topic but why do gay dudes go for effeminate guys and gay gals go for butches? I mean I figure if I was attracted to guys the last thing I'd want was one that acted like a chick. Does'nt dating a girly guy give you doubts about your homosexuality? Like when my freind Mandy was still Bi I told her I figured she was gay because all of her boyfreinds were pretty much pansies. (not that her gf is butch really Mandy scored a hottie but Mandy is a PIMP!)
1. the difference between "girly guys" and not is nothing more than a societal paradigm, which, for some reason, many men still feel compelled to 'live up to' when it may be against their nature. i think if that "norm" didn't exist, many manly men would be less manly by nature.
2. i know a female bisexual who finds "manly" (looking) men attractive and "girly" looking women attractive, so i'd guess your post is something of a generalisation. and then there's fass - gay guy (and proud ;)) who seems to like Niles Crane, a highly effite girly guy... perhaps that generalisation is a stereotype?
then again i'm a straight guy who rarely gives this issue much thought, so what do i know? :p

Right I know this is totally off topic but why do gay dudes go for effeminate guys and gay gals go for butches? I mean I figure if I was attracted to guys the last thing I'd want was one that acted like a chick. Does'nt dating a girly guy give you doubts about your homosexuality? Like when my freind Mandy was still Bi I told her I figured she was gay because all of her boyfreinds were pretty much pansies. (not that her gf is butch really Mandy scored a hottie but Mandy is a PIMP!)
That's not entirely true, it's just an illusion.

You REALLY notice effeminate faggy gay man... they stand out so much you wish they would stand out all the way under a train. However, the rest of them sort of blend in you don't take much notice. A Butch lesbian sticks in your mind for a lot longer than a plain ordinary looking person.
See my boyfreind is totally straight, well not actually totally straight obviously but youd never know.

And as for doubting my sexuality dating really girly guys, i'm not sure, i doubt it, it just seems natural i suppose. Myself i just find them annoying and scarily androgenous. A scary doubt that all you straight people can enjoy too, is whether you'll keep only really liking teenagers when your teenage years are long gone and become just another dirty old man ?

I personally can't stand to be around soft men. I mean half of them dressed like metrosexuals which is weird enough. But when they start to share their feelings, ugh. Give me a lumberjack who wears flannel shirt and can build a house with his own two hands anyday!

Haha! You sound like someone in one of those "Readers Digest" things. They recently had an article about men, and how they're just as sensitive as women to emotions, blah blah blah.

The point is, you're probably just screaming to let out some of your emotions(besides anger :mp5: ) about stuff. I know I was. It feels rather good to let it out.

...but that's just me. Go ahead and make fun of me if you will. I'll just laugh at you.

I personally can't stand to be around soft men. I mean half of them dressed like metrosexuals which is weird enough. But when they start to share their feelings, ugh. Give me a lumberjack who wears flannel shirt and can build a house with his own two hands anyday!
sarcasm i hope.

emotions are an integral part of being human (for the vast majority of us without serious mental issues). therefore sharing them only makes sense.
just depends to what extent and in what company.
for instance i have no problems sharing any and all emotions and feelings with my family and girlfriend, but come to other friends - male or not - and i'm less open for sure. still open but quite a lot less so.
in fact thats one of the reasons my flatmate and i really didn't get on last year - he never shared emotion and was purely rational, i work on empathy and feeling... we just couldn't 'click' and i eventually would up pretty depressed (not just that, but i'm sure it was a factor) and really quite paranoid (but the weed probably had something to do with that)

I don't rightly see the point to this to be quite honest.

I would consider myself to be a soft guy, because I rather despise arrogant fools. I rather also loathe 'it' girls, who are only interested in fashion and going 'oh my gosh! don't I look so cute in this?!' (I'm coming over all American :s).

I do know there are people who think otherwise, and I know a lot of girls who share differing opinions of what makes a man a man, so yeah, a rather difficult poll to trust the results of ;)

I think both types of personalities can be uber-attactive as long as they're genuine, and not terribly extreme. My boyfriend, for example is 6'6" played team sports in highschool, and generally and looks like a type B, but is in fact a very gentle person that doesn't mind talking about all sorts of sensetive issues. Mind you, if he started dressing too fashionably, that would be a bit of a turn-off. Men are so vain.

"Real men" are able to express their emotions because they have outgrown the somewhat infantile need to hide them.

Real men are tender with those weaker than them, including children and animals, because they realize that they are strong for a reason.

Real men don't avoid crying when there is reason to do so, because they're confident enough in their own masculinity.

Real men will always try diplomacy and negotiation first to resolve disputes, beause they realize that violence means everyone has lost.

Real men aren't afraid to champion unpopular causes, because they understand that popularity is a transient and fickle mistress.

Real men always seek what is best for others, because they realize that will ultimately be what is best for themselves.

A real man will work for what is good and right and just, regardless of the skeptics, the cynical, the nay-sayers and the weak-kneed, because that is one of the primary things that makes him a "real man."

I don't know, my husband is the best of both worlds, he is strong and big and fuzzy and tough, but he loves me and is romantic and can play barbies with the girls (although I think he enjoys playing cars with them more). I suppose if I had to choose, I would pick rough but respectful, maybe it's because of where I am from though, men are expected to be the hunter/protector here. My husband is kinda nerdy though which I love :)

Right I know this is totally off topic but why do gay dudes go for effeminate guys and gay gals go for butches? I mean I figure if I was attracted to guys the last thing I'd want was one that acted like a chick. Does'nt dating a girly guy give you doubts about your homosexuality? Like when my freind Mandy was still Bi I told her I figured she was gay because all of her boyfreinds were pretty much pansies. (not that her gf is butch really Mandy scored a hottie but Mandy is a PIMP!)

Hmm, its more about choosing partners who compliment our personality traits - for yes, even in the hetero world, a more effiminate male will tend to go for the more tom boyish girl etc. Its about getting the right balance between the two.

....

Well said, Eutrusca. I'm not the 'manly' man, as a man whom would gladly get in fights, try to show heavy masculinity, etc. I'm a man who will keep my own pace, and whether anybody else likes it or not, I wouldn't care much. I'll avoid fights if possible, but otherwise I can and will defend myself and anyone else who needs to be defended.

I kickbox and like teddy bears, so I'm on neither extreme. *shifty eyes*

...You didn't hear any of what I said...

sarcasm i hope.

emotions are an integral part of being human (for the vast majority of us without serious mental issues). therefore sharing them only makes sense.
just depends to what extent and in what company.
for instance i have no problems sharing any and all emotions and feelings with my family and girlfriend, but come to other friends - male or not - and i'm less open for sure. still open but quite a lot less so.
in fact thats one of the reasons my flatmate and i really didn't get on last year - he never shared emotion and was purely rational, i work on empathy and feeling... we just couldn't 'click' and i eventually would up pretty depressed (not just that, but i'm sure it was a factor) and really quite paranoid (but the weed probably had something to do with that)

Nah it's not sarcasm, I just think it's strange when guys start sharing their feelings with other guys. I'm not going to sit around the campfire sharing my feelings with other guys, that's just not me. I may do it with a girlfriend, or woman figure, but not with other guys.

Well said, Eut

I'm kinda both. I listen to sappy music, read poetry, even paint occaisionally. However, I get away with this largely because I'm a combat vet (1 year in Iraq with the 3rd Cavalry), and I'm not exactly all that physically effeminate. I'm sure that some people would like to pick on me about some of the things I do but not many people are willing to antagonize a combat vet in such a fashion.

"Real men" are able to express their emotions because they have outgrown the somewhat infantile need to hide them.

Real men are tender with those weaker than them, including children and animals, because they realize that they are strong for a reason.

Real men don't avoid crying when there is reason to do so, because they're confident enough in their own masculinity.

Real men will always try diplomacy and negotiation first to resolve disputes, beause they realize that violence means everyone has lost.

Real men aren't afraid to champion unpopular causes, because they understand that popularity is a transient and fickle mistress.

Real men always seek what is best for others, because they realize that will ultimately be what is best for themselves.

A real man will work for what is good and right and just, regardless of the skeptics, the cynical, the nay-sayers and the weak-kneed, because that is one of the primary things that makes him a "real man."

Agreed.

Well said, Eutrusca. I'm not the 'manly' man, as a man whom would gladly get in fights, try to show heavy masculinity, etc. I'm a man who will keep my own pace, and whether anybody else likes it or not, I wouldn't care much. I'll avoid fights if possible, but otherwise I can and will defend myself and anyone else who needs to be defended.

I kickbox and like teddy bears, so I'm on neither extreme. *shifty eyes*

...You didn't hear any of what I said...
"I didn't hear any of what you said."

"These are not the droids we're looking for."

"Move along." :D

Nah it's not sarcasm, I just think it's strange when guys start sharing their feelings with other guys. I'm not going to sit around the campfire sharing my feelings with other guys, that's just not me. I may do it with a girlfriend, or woman figure, but not with other guys.That's creepy. What, do all male friends have these superficial relationship wherby they never actually find out about the fundamental beliefs and feelings of each other?! How can you base trust and caring solely on cheering together for hockey games, or comparing power tools?

And why should woment bear the brunt of all their men's angst? People have emotional needs that friedns play a big part in satisfying for men and women.

Well said, Eut

I'm kinda both. I listen to sappy music, read poetry, even paint occaisionally. However, I get away with this largely because I'm a combat vet (1 year in Iraq with the 3rd Cavalry), and I'm not exactly all that physically effeminate. I'm sure that some people would like to pick on me about some of the things I do but not many people are willing to antagonize a combat vet in such a fashion.
Hehehe! I know! :D

I don't rightly see the point to this to be quite honest.

I'm kinda curious about it. I've been thinking about it for a while and then last night I suddenly remembered reading a pair of articles in my old High School newspaper where a woman was arguing for men to be chivalrous toward women and a man was arguing against.

That and I find all the past mannerisms of 'manly men' amusing. Eye-liner in Japan and Egypt... 'skirts' in pre-medieval Med, Ireland, Scotland, pre-Wilhelm Britain and Wales, Japan (hakama were originally one 'sleeve' items, which only got a sleeve for both legs when they decided to go horseback riding), the wearing of perfumes and silks by Arabian and later European nobles, &c.

Nah it's not sarcasm, I just think it's strange when guys start sharing their feelings with other guys. I'm not going to sit around the campfire sharing my feelings with other guys, that's just not me. I may do it with a girlfriend, or woman figure, but not with other guys.

I must agree. I mean, crazy secrets like 'I hear voices' are pretty cool, and I have no problem. But I'm not the kind of person who's built to hear a guy say 'I'm so sad and lonely, I can't believe she dumped me.'

Now, if he changed it a bit like:

"Crap, the stupid bitch friggin' dumped me." I'll understand that.

That's creepy. What, do all male friends have these superficial relationship wherby they never actually find out about the fundamental beliefs and feelings of each other?! How can you base trust and caring solely on cheering together for hockey games, or comparing power tools?

And why should woment bear the brunt of all their men's angst? People have emotional needs that friedns play a big part in satisfying for men and women.

Nah. My friends and I regularly discuss politics, religion, and philosophy. That and muzzle velocities....

I personally can't stand to be around soft men. I mean half of them dressed like metrosexuals which is weird enough. But when they start to share their feelings, ugh. Give me a lumberjack who wears flannel shirt and can build a house with his own two hands anyday!


I'm a lumberjac and I'm OKAY, I wear flannel shirts and build houses all day!

sung to the tune of that stupid monty python song.

Me? I dig pirates. ARRRR!!

I personally can't stand to be around soft men. I mean half of them dressed like metrosexuals which is weird enough. But when they start to share their feelings, ugh. Give me a lumberjack who wears flannel shirt and can build a house with his own two hands anyday!
what a metrosexual

I want a man who's competent. He should be able to fix a car, do home repairs and earn a decent living. He should also be kind, compassionate and caring and have a sense of humor. If he can arrange flowers, write poetry and looks good in velvet that would be nice, but not necessary.

I don't really know how exactly I got to this thread - but I'm very glad I did.

I am so impressed with the openness and sincerity of so many of you. I have so many comments, agreements and a few disagreements (but I'll try to figure out - first - where the 'disagreement posts people' are coming from - why did they say that - blah etc blah.)

I guess I must be a female since I'm not "just having a damn hissy fit because something pissed me off... blah- etc - blah, or because I feel very comfortable saying that someone else wrote a great post - or that someone's opinions (besides my own) are valid - or that I'm impressed by something other than the way a person looks or what kind of toys someone has.

Can you tell - I was just abused by some homophobic asshole who is a total compulsive liar and is arrogant only when there's someone to build up his ego which is really non-existent - and he knows what kind of empty shallow person he is so he blocks this out and is only as good as he can get others to believe he is - which is by displaying himself as a super hero macho man enjoying tremendous success - bullshit bullshit bullshit and this strongly (not to be confused with macho or the more accepted 'tough') is starting to look like he's swinging (not to be confused with 'Bi' or 'open' marriages) between narcissism and being a psychopath. And he hurt me deeply - because I was too dumb to recognize, (earlier than I did) the bullshit.

Sorry - really I am (see I can apologize too - and admit when I was a dork).
Oops - it just slipped out - sorry again.

New Rafnaland - I’m curious as to why you started this post – though I’m glad you did. And what is your preference in men – and if you are male (which is my guess) what type of man are you?

The Emperor Fenix – Good for you! Sincerely! I love your candor – and I’m jealous cause you seem really at peace with where you are in your life right now – I love your confidence.

PaulJeekistan Were you just typing to add to your ‘posts number’. Do you sincerely put any validity in the stereotypes you wrote? If you were a homophobe you wouldn’t have even bothered to post in this thread – you would have just gone straight to the warfare ones with blood and guts and small penises everywhere.

Or possibly – you don’t get out very much and get your life experience from B Movies on late night television. Or – possibly – you were just asking an honest question because that’s what you really thought, for whatever reason? If that’s the case – sorry I was so hard on you – possibly remain in this thread because you may learn something real about life.

Stone Bridges Please forgive me if I am wrong but of course you were just kidding – right?

Pure Metal you are great! Thank you for trying to help by reminding me that there are men who are sensitive to others needs – intelligent – not afraid to share their feelings…..


Muffalopadus “… but that's just me. Go ahead and make fun of me if you will. I'll just laugh at you.” Great attitude – You’re good!

The Dudeland Isle It would be a great poll to trust the results of – if it were answered sincerely

Kreitzmoorland and Smunkeeville Go Girls! Do they have any similar and SINGLE friends? (Just kidding – I don’t want to be in another relationship for a very long time – at least until the bruises heal and I can regain some of the confidence – self esteem, that I lost by being a doormat to a TOTALLY STUPID ASSHOLE! (Sorry – really – sorry)

And so it is that she is emotionally drained and exhausted. I hurt like hell, but very glad to know that there are still good people in this world – female and male.

Thanks for listening - And to all a Good Night.

That's creepy. What, do all male friends have these superficial relationship wherby they never actually find out about the fundamental beliefs and feelings of each other?! How can you base trust and caring solely on cheering together for hockey games, or comparing power tools?

And why should woment bear the brunt of all their men's angst? People have emotional needs that friedns play a big part in satisfying for men and women.

Because when I'm watching Panthers Football, the last thing I need is my friend bawling about how he feels like he needs to be Superman for his family and how fustrated he is by it. Jeez, wake up dude, we all have to act tought, society (for the most part) expects males to be tough and strong.

You aren't a man unless you can kill another man from fifty yards.

Everyone should be able too. Subtlety is not necessary, but a 10-gauge sawed-off shotgun is.

what a metrosexual

Metrosexual is basically a guy who acts really really really feminine, but they're too scared to call themselves homosexuals, so they come up with this nice term.

Ricky Martin is a "metrosexual".

I once killed a man from fifty yards away by spitting towards him.

True story.

Are you Bill Brasky?

You aren't a man unless you can kill another man from fifty yards.

Everyone should be able too. Subtlety is not necessary, but a 10-gauge sawed-off shotgun is.

Those are just supposed to be examples... I could have thrown in the stereotypical 'manly men' who fall under those categories, but I thought this would make people be more honest.

For instance, I could have renamed the 'softies' as being 'Knights' and the 'ruffians' as being 'Cowboys'.

And if you need an illegal firearm to kill someone, something's wrong with your shooting. ;)

New Rafnaland - I’m curious as to why you started this post – though I’m glad you did. And what is your preference in men – and if you are male (which is my guess) what type of man are you?

I've posted before as to why I started it. Because I think (dangerous!) and have a strange memory that draws up strange things from my past (like a certain pair of articles from a high school newspaper). That and I've found a quick way of making an otherwise extremely manly and stereotypical character into a not-so stereotypical character is to simply make them effeminate. And so I've been thinking about gender roles and so on and so on....

As for the second part... testicle check... you're correct, I'm a man (manly man! Man in tights!).

As for the last part, well, I'm curious as to why you want to know....

I'd like to clarify my personal definition of a manly man. Someone who can pick me up and carry me to the bed without straining and nearly dropping me. I'm not as light as a feather, but I'm not a freakin' mammoth! A guy who can hold me tight. I don't break. One who doesn't cry like a sissy when he's injured or not feeling well. Hydrogen peroxide does not hurt and pouring beer on an injury to get out of using hydrogen peroxide is just plain idiotic. These are a few examples.

Because when I'm watching Panthers Football, the last thing I need is my friend bawling about how he feels like he needs to be Superman for his family and how fustrated he is by it. Jeez, wake up dude, we all have to act tought, society (for the most part) expects males to be tough and strong.

I say its also this, from my observation as a gay male, kinda the male who is too female to be male, but too male to be female - straight guys also have alot of non-verbal communication; guys can say something in a couple of words, which would take a female AGES to say; its words + gesture = message, hence, to the casual observer, one would assume men aren't communicating, but they are :D

My character in Everquest 2 can kill huge ass bears from 50 yards, does that dount?

While I don't really care for calligraphy, I care even less about men who are into martial arts of any kind or even guns. BIG turnoff.
I don't think I care too much for "manly men", I have little use for them really ;)

While I don't really care for calligraphy, I care even less about men who are into martial arts of any kind or even guns. BIG turnoff.
I don't think I care too much for "manly men", I have little use for them really ;)
Same here. never ever send me poems. Especially crappy teeny gothic kind of poems. :rolleyes: But as you said martial arts and guns are even bigger turnoff.

A manly man doesn't have to show his manliness. It oozes from him. :)

Same here. never ever send me poems. Especially crappy teeny gothic kind of poems. :rolleyes: But as you said martial arts and guns are even bigger turnoff.

A manly man doesn't have to show his manliness. It oozes from him. :)

So, cops and soldiers aren't manly? Even if they read Philosophy Journal, engage in flower arranging, &c.? Or especially if?

So, cops and soldiers aren't manly? Even if they read Philosophy Journal, engage in flower arranging, &c.? Or especially if?

Cops, possibly. Soldiers, never.

Cops, possibly. Soldiers, never.

Even if said soldier was young and idealistic as all get-out when he joined? And later realized, after he joined, that he made a foolish mistake and that the military doesn't stand for what he thought it does, but doesn't desert because he gave his word?

What if his family was too poor for him to go to a good college and so he joined up to pay for that?

While I don't really care for calligraphy, I care even less about men who are into martial arts of any kind or even guns. BIG turnoff.
I don't think I care too much for "manly men", I have little use for them really ;)

Yea, but a manly man can keep up a house. My dad is a manly man and he never had to call a repairman to fix his house. Hell he built this house. In the long run that saves you money.

Yea, but a manly man can keep up a house. My dad is a manly man and he never had to call a repairman to fix his house. Hell he built this house. In the long run that saves you money.

Big deal. I never built a house, but I helped my family renovating two from the inside out, everything from knocking down walls and putting up new ones through to plumbing, electrics, wooden floors and wallpaper.
As a woman, I don't need a man to keep up the house, I do that myself.

Cops, possibly. Soldiers, never.
What if you have mandatory military service in your country? :)

Big deal. I never built a house, but I helped my family renovating two from the inside out, everything from knocking down walls and putting up new ones through to plumbing, electrics, wooden floors and wallpaper.
As a woman, I don't need a man to keep up the house, I do that myself.

Sexay!

Sorry. Couldn't resist.

Even if said soldier was young and idealistic as all get-out when he joined? And later realized, after he joined, that he made a foolish mistake and that the military doesn't stand for what he thought it does, but doesn't desert because he gave his word?

What if his family was too poor for him to go to a good college and so he joined up to pay for that?

All valid reasons for most.
But to me, a manly man has principles and morals, involving non-violence and not ever taking the risk of killing another person.

What if you have mandatory military service in your country? :)

What if they serve as a medic or a chaplain? Or a mechanic?

All valid reasons for most.
But to me, a manly man has principles and morals, involving non-violence and not ever taking the risk of killing another person.

So manly men don't drive cars where you're from? Others do not attempt to commit violent crimes against them?

What if they serve as a medic or a chaplain? Or a mechanic?
Most can't choose where they serve

What if you have mandatory military service in your country? :)

For all I know, the only country that will force you to do that is Israel. All other countries give you the option of doing social service time instead (but I might be wrong there)

Still, being a soldier or having been a soldier is taking you down one mark on my "manly man" scale.

Big deal. I never built a house, but I helped my family renovating two from the inside out, everything from knocking down walls and putting up new ones through to plumbing, electrics, wooden floors and wallpaper.
As a woman, I don't need a man to keep up the house, I do that myself.

Thats awesome, but wouldnt you like a guy that doesnt seem to depend on you and is good with the carpenter manly sort of thing.

So manly men don't drive cars where you're from? Others do not attempt to commit violent crimes against them?

Nothing to do with geography, buddy ;)
A man doesn't have to drive a car to be manly in my book. And commiting a violent crime just shows that you're not even in control of yourself, let alone anything else. Not very manly

Most can't choose where they serve

If I recall properly, in the American military, you can become a medic for religious reasons, although that may only be when there is conscription.... If you major in theology and express an interest in it during basic, I'm sure you'd wind up as a chaplain.

There is, I believe, a certain amount of choice involved, although it's more along the lines of joining the military and then applying for x, y, or z... unless you got your recruiter to sign a document stating what exactly it is that you'll do in the military. And I'm sure most recruiters have some sort of slip especially printed for medics.

I know how to work on houses too, my dad taught me everything that he knows.

I can work on houses, cars, and I can work on some parts of an airplane.

Nothing to do with geography, buddy ;)
A man doesn't have to drive a car to be manly in my book. And commiting a violent crime just shows that you're not even in control of yourself, let alone anything else. Not very manly

No, I meant that a person who defends himself from a violent crime isn't manly. (?)

And here, if you don't have a car, well, it's a long way to walk anywhere. And only slightly shorter by bike or horse.

Nothing to do with geography, buddy ;)
A man doesn't have to drive a car to be manly in my book. And commiting a violent crime just shows that you're not even in control of yourself, let alone anything else. Not very manly

LOL....sounds like you have no driving licence ;)
But if you want i can show a dangerous weapon....and I am sure you don´t find it violent....maybe scary ;)

For all I know, the only country that will force you to do that is Israel. All other countries give you the option of doing social service time instead (but I might be wrong there)

Still, being a soldier or having been a soldier is taking you down one mark on my "manly man" scale.
Yes, but in most countries the social service period is much longer than the military service and there for like a punishment. The third option is going to jail (or being a member in a specific small protestant church. A fact that makes me mad. What makes them so damn special!?!)

Thats awesome, but wouldnt you like a guy that doesnt seem to depend on you and is good with the carpenter manly sort of thing.

Sure, he can help carrying the tools and fixing things I can't reach cause I'm too short :D

No, seriously, the "carpenter manly sort of thing" doesn't do anything for me.
I'd rather have someone with enough brains to keep me interested, and some artistic talent I can look up to. A balanced personality.

No, I meant that a person who defends himself from a violent crime isn't manly. (?)

And here, if you don't have a car, well, it's a long way to walk anywhere. And only slightly shorter by bike or horse.

Defense is ok, but only if there is virtually no other option. Running away is always preferred.
Here, you don't really need a car. There's enough public transport.

LOL....sounds like you have no driving licence ;)
But if you want i can show a dangerous weapon....and I am sure you don´t find it violent....maybe scary ;)

No, I don't ;)
I'd sure like to see that weapon...

If I recall properly, in the American military, you can become a medic for religious reasons, although that may only be when there is conscription.... If you major in theology and express an interest in it during basic, I'm sure you'd wind up as a chaplain.

There is, I believe, a certain amount of choice involved, although it's more along the lines of joining the military and then applying for x, y, or z... unless you got your recruiter to sign a document stating what exactly it is that you'll do in the military. And I'm sure most recruiters have some sort of slip especially printed for medics.
Your talking about volunteers. There is not so much freedom of choice in mandatory service. Also most guys (and some girls, hooray equality!) go to military between the age of 18 and 22. They haven't majored in anything. most haven't studied anything. They do the service before they go to higher levels of education.

Defense is ok, but only if there is virtually no other option. Running away is always preferred.
Here, you don't really need a car. There's enough public transport.

Public transport? What's that? Is there where you have a horse pullin' a carriage, only the carriage seats fifteen?

No, I don't ;)
I'd sure like to see that weapon...


And i think in your hands it will be more dangerous, than an Uzi

Your talking about volunteers. There is not so much freedom of choice in mandatory service. Also most guys (and some girls, hooray equality!) go to military between the age of 18 and 22. They haven't majored in anything. most haven't studied anything. They do the service before they go to higher levels of education.

Well, I can't say that I'd see any negative about a man who goes through college to become a chaplain, to 'care for the souls of his brother soldiers', as it were.

And i think in your hands it will be more dangerous, than an Uzi

More like a noble lance, plunging deep into- er, what was I doing?

Yes, but in most countries the social service period is much longer than the military service and there for like a punishment. The third option is going to jail (or being a member in a specific small protestant church. A fact that makes me mad. What makes them so damn special!?!)

Both my brothers did the social service (I think it was 2 months longer than the military service), and I'm proud of them for that.
It does take a lot of guts to work with serverly handicapped people, to feed them, bathe them, help them when they're on the toilet... it made me respect them a lot more than if they had spent their time running around wielding guns following silly orders and learning the correct way of how to fall into a puddle

More like a noble lance, plunging deep into- er, what was I doing?

even an acient weapon could be dangerous, if you don´t miss the target

And i think in your hands it will be more dangerous, than an Uzi

Does it shoot that far?

Both my brothers did the social service (I think it was 2 months longer than the military service), and I'm proud of them for that.
It does take a lot of guts to work with serverly handicapped people, to feed them, bathe them, help them when they're on the toilet... it made me respect them a lot more than if they had spent their time running around wielding guns following silly orders and learning the correct way of how to fall into a puddle

And I have learned to protect my country from the other side of Germany and the evil soviets
I was proud to serve my country...I would do it anytime...but today I think I must protect it from the evil americans...

Does it shoot that far?

i wanna hit u with its munition

And I have learned to protect my country from the other side of Germany and the evil soviets
I was proud to serve my country...I would do it anytime...but today I think I must protect it from the evil americans...

Bah. My horse can't swim oceans, so you're perfectly safe. :p

Bah. My horse can't swim oceans, so you're perfectly safe. :p

But maybe your Lasso can reaches me...

Both my brothers did the social service (I think it was 2 months longer than the military service), and I'm proud of them for that.
It does take a lot of guts to work with serverly handicapped people, to feed them, bathe them, help them when they're on the toilet... it made me respect them a lot more than if they had spent their time running around wielding guns following silly orders and learning the correct way of how to fall into a puddle
I agree with you on that. If I were a man I'd choose social service too. In Finland you can get out of military in 6 months but the social service takes 13 months. Finland has received a lot of reproaches (is that a word?) about it but no changes to be seen :(

Anyway around here most don't even think about it. Quite many think that if you don't do your military service you're disrespectful to what our grandparents did in WWII. (kept us independent)

i wanna hit u with its munition

It's not lethal, is it?

It's not lethal, is it?

Only if you get ammo in your eye. Could blind you.

Only if you get ammo in your eye. Could blind you.

I think you will finda way to clean cabra´s eyes...

Only if you get ammo in your eye. Could blind you.

*lol
I best try to take it all in my mouth, then? ;)

But maybe your Lasso can reaches me...

Nah, but my rifle might. If I had a super computer to generate the trajectory and aim it and some sort of large, multistage rocket to fire it on....

*lol
I best try to take it all in my mouth, then? ;)

*Jealous* You done, yet?

*lol
I best try to take it all in my mouth, then? ;)

Any place where it's more likely to spread out and be less of a focused attack.

*lol
I best try to take it all in my mouth, then? ;)

you think you can handle it???

you think you can handle it???

I could try ;)

Both categories are manly men, though. It's just that manly men who wear silk, perfume, and regularly engage in arranging flowers, writing poetry, practicing calligraphy, &c. would today be considered to be either gay or metrosexual.

Whereas, a thousand years ago, a man was not a real man unless he could do those things. Moreover, calling such a man a 'girly-man' would have the likely result of one's blood being spilled all over the insulted....

And that's where your argument fails...

and then there's fass - gay guy (and proud ;)) who seems to like Niles Crane, a highly effite girly guy... perhaps that generalisation is a stereotype?

Umm, just because I like Niles Crane does not mean I don't like butch men. It just means I like men. I like my men in many different ways and it is very much personality - I've been with very, very butch men and with men who are "normal" and men who are softer, and I really don't have that much of a preference, except that I don't go that much for the metrosexual style. Sure, thay can be neat and that, but I like guys with hairy legs and a hairy chest (oh, and a nice beard can make me stiff as a board) a lot more than "smooth" ones, which can be a bit of a turn off. I also do have a preference for deep voices and rougher play that butch men seem to be a bit better at.

So, to summarise: I like men, and do not conform to either his or your generalisation.

Umm, just because I like Niles Crane does not mean I don't like butch men. It just means I like men. I like my men in many different ways and it is very much personality - I've been with very, very butch men and with men who are "normal" and men who are softer, and I really don't have that much of a preference, except that I don't go that much for the metrosexual style. Sure, thay can be neat and that, but I like guys with hairy legs and a hairy chest (oh, and a nice beard can make me stiff as a board) a lot more than "smooth" ones, which can be a bit of a turn off. I also do have a preference for deep voices and rougher play that butch men seem to be a bit better at.

So, to summarise: I like men, and do not conform to either his or your generalisation.
hah well at least my generalisation was an attempt at humour :P

I have no problem with men being anything that they want. But here is why I like being a "manly man"

If I ever got lost in the woods, I'd be fine.

If my car ever broke down in the middle of no where, I could probably fix it, but if not, I'd be fine.

I'm not scared to walk down a dark road alone.

I don't take 2 hours to get ready.

I save lots of money by not buying a bunch of crap for the bathroom when all I need is soap, shampoo, a razor, deodorant, and cologne, toothebrush and paste.

I don't waste my money on expensive clothes that I don't need for anything other than to impress materialistic people (which is a HUGE pet peeve of mine $90 jeans? Are you fucking kidding me?).




Now, the main thing to remember is that a REAL man can still do the following.

Cry

Be good to kids and women

Smell good

Be silly



I have the same emotions as any "metrosexual" but the difference is that I know when to shut them off for a while in order to accomplish a goal when the situation calls for it.

I don't take 2 hours to get ready.

I save lots of money by not buying a bunch of crap for the bathroom when all I need is soap, shampoo, a razor, deodorant, and cologne.



You mean.... you don't brush your teeth??? :eek:

You mean.... you don't brush your teeth??? :eek:
Crap! Gonna have to edit. :headbang:

Crap! Gonna have to edit. :headbang:

*lol

I'm a sucker for details, I know ;)
But I can't stand people who don't even have rudimentary hygene, and clean teeth are part of that :fluffle:

*lol

I'm a sucker for details, I know ;)
But I can't stand people who don't even have rudimentary hygene, and clean teeth are part of that :fluffle:


Again I will go to the dentist tomorrow....so my teeth will shine brighter than the stars after that...

hah well at least my generalisation was an attempt at humour :P

So that's what that was.

In history, there are many forms of 'manly men', ranging from the flower-arranging samurai and silk-swaddled knight to the raw meat-eating, rawhide-wearing Mongolians and cowboys.

This poll is to figure out whether or not you prefer men to be rough around the edges or slightly more effete, and if there's a general bias between men and women in their selection of how they want a manly man to be.
I detest any man who is dull enough to fall back on categories of this sort. Talk about boring.

Again I will go to the dentist tomorrow....so my teeth will shine brighter than the stars after that...

I'll be dazzled, I'm sure. :fluffle:
See, that's manly. Being scared of the dentist but still going.

I'll be dazzled, I'm sure. :fluffle:
See, that's manly. Being scared of the dentist but still going.

if you would see me on this chair...with sweat on my forehead and in my hands, you do not find it manly...;)

if you would see me on this chair...with sweat on my forehead and in my hands, you do not find it manly...;)

Fear is ok. The manly point is, you actually go there, and you stay in that chair until he's finished. That's brave.

"Real men" are able to express their emotions because they have outgrown the somewhat infantile need to hide them.

Real men are tender with those weaker than them, including children and animals, because they realize that they are strong for a reason.

Real men don't avoid crying when there is reason to do so, because they're confident enough in their own masculinity.

Real men will always try diplomacy and negotiation first to resolve disputes, beause they realize that violence means everyone has lost.

Real men aren't afraid to champion unpopular causes, because they understand that popularity is a transient and fickle mistress.

Real men always seek what is best for others, because they realize that will ultimately be what is best for themselves.

A real man will work for what is good and right and just, regardless of the skeptics, the cynical, the nay-sayers and the weak-kneed, because that is one of the primary things that makes him a "real man."

A real man knows he isnt the best, he's humble, accepts advice-and directions! He'll try to make himself better.
real men are self reliant, but not selfish.
Real men know its not all about them and wont bore people to tears talking about themselves and all they've been through/done. They're modest.
Real men take responsibilty for their words and actions and dont look to transfer blame to others when they are wrong.
Real men will enjoy taking an active role in child care- not just providing food and shelter for children, but become involved in their children's day-listen to their kid's high or low points of the day, ask about and help with homework, change the baby's diaper, bathe the baby, cook dinner or clean up and routinely and enthusiastically cross that line that divide's the "duties" of man and woman in the house. (My wife has actually swooned when I folded laundry out of the dryer and put it away. It wasnt pretty, but I tried hard).
Real men take care of themselves without being vain. They are confident without a swagger. Their families are comfortable around them-not intimidates because of macho posturing or yelling.
Real men get the job done. They do what they say and say what they do.
Real men wont tell you they are real men. You'll find out though.

There is so much more to add to this. Real men keep growing and improving. And they try to keep those around them growing and learning too.

*lol

I'm a sucker for details, I know ;)
But I can't stand people who don't even have rudimentary hygene, and clean teeth are part of that :fluffle:

I agree-proper hygiene and maintenance is part of being a real man. You owe it to yourself and your family to stay fit and set an example for same.
There is a fine line between good maintenance and vanity though.

Having your eyebrows waxed- vain.
Brushing & flossing,scraping your tongue on a regular basis- good.

I agree-proper hygiene and maintenance is part of being a real man. You owe it to yourself and your family to stay fit and set an example for same.
There is a fine line between good maintenance and vanity though.

Having your eyebrows waxed- vain.
Brushing & flossing,scraping your tongue on a regular basis- good.

Depends on your eyebrows, imo. If you have huge brushy caterpillars wriggling above your eyes, maybe even grown together over your nose, I don't see anything wrong in clearing up that jungle ;)

I like renaissance men. /shrug

I like renaissance men. /shrug

What... Leonardo da Vinci? Lorenzo Medici? Martin Luther?

"Do you prefer men who are rough or soft? "

Actually, I prefer women.

Depends on your eyebrows, imo. If you have huge brushy caterpillars wriggling above your eyes, maybe even grown together over your nose, I don't see anything wrong in clearing up that jungle ;)

In my opinion, a trim with scizzors would be acceptable. I flinch when I see a man with waxed eyebrows. It seems obvious to me.
Maybe I'm too perceptive.

Its still better than coarse appearance or behavior when its inappropriate. You take the family out for dinner and your nails should be clean, regardless of what you spent the day doing.

Eh. I can see the reason for the question, but I can't really answer this. I don't believe that men (or women) are supposed to act in a certain way. I would say that ideally, everyone would be refined and be able to have an intelligent conversation. I can't really think of something that I think men should do that women shouldn't, and vice versa.

I'm probably about to go down in flames for this, but... I like manly men. Period. I want a strong guy who makes me feel protected and taken care of. And it's not because I can't or don't want to take care of myself. I'm a veteran, have a good job, and am a single mom... and am proud of all three! But I'm very happy with my traditional BF because being with him makes me feel very womanly. And for a working girl in an increasingly sex-neutral society, the primal need for that sort of feeling can be hard to meet.

I enjoy and prefer the Yin and Yang of a more traditional relationship. While I appreciate men who are "Oprah Winfrey sensitive types", as Tim Wilson would say, I admit that I rarely find them sexy. I can get that sort of thing from my sister and my girlfriends. When it comes to mating, give me a traditional old school "man's man" anyday.

Most can't choose where they serve

In the US Army you get to choose 99% of the time. I'm told the Marines can choose now, too.

I'm probably about to go down in flames for this, but... I like manly men. Period. I want a strong guy who makes me feel protected and taken care of. And it's not because I can't or don't want to take care of myself. I'm a veteran, have a good job, and am a single mom... and am proud of all three! But I'm very happy with my traditional BF because being with him makes me feel very womanly. And for a working girl in an increasingly sex-neutral society, the primal need for that sort of feeling can be hard to meet.

I enjoy and prefer the Yin and Yang of a more traditional relationship. While I appreciate men who are "Oprah Winfrey sensitive types", as Tim Wilson would say, I admit that I rarely find them sexy. I can get that sort of thing from my sister and my girlfriends. When it comes to mating, give me a traditional old school "man's man" anyday.


Thats refreshing to hear.
And by the way, I have a lot of respect for veterans and single moms that still get the job done.
Good job !

I have no problem with men being anything that they want. But here is why I like being a "manly man"

If I ever got lost in the woods, I'd be fine.

If my car ever broke down in the middle of no where, I could probably fix it, but if not, I'd be fine.

I'm not scared to walk down a dark road alone.

I don't take 2 hours to get ready.

I save lots of money by not buying a bunch of crap for the bathroom when all I need is soap, shampoo, a razor, deodorant, and cologne, toothebrush and paste.

I don't waste my money on expensive clothes that I don't need for anything other than to impress materialistic people (which is a HUGE pet peeve of mine $90 jeans? Are you fucking kidding me?).




Now, the main thing to remember is that a REAL man can still do the following.

Cry

Be good to kids and women

Smell good

Be silly



I have the same emotions as any "metrosexual" but the difference is that I know when to shut them off for a while in order to accomplish a goal when the situation calls for it.
You do realise that quite many women could sign that too. Except the bathroom part.

edit: and I don't think I'm "manly" at all.
edit2: I also know that even if a woman knows how to fix a car, it's better to let him at least try first. ;)

In the US Army you get to choose 99% of the time. I'm told the Marines can choose now, too.
Again, we are (were) talking about mandatory service, not volunteers.

i think what you mean .. bottom line, is which would women prefer... an american wild cowboy or a gentelmen from the classical streets of london...

same for the men, would they prefer a wild women, or a respectable femenin women

i think what you mean .. bottom line, is which would women prefer... an american wild cowboy or a gentelmen from the classical streets of london...

Won't presume to speak for all women, but for me it isn't as much a question of cowboy v/s gentleman. Cowboys can be (and ought to be) gentlemen. I took the question as:

Would you prefer a man who meets the more traditional definition of a good man (strong and take-charge), or the more modern (sensitive and cooperative)?

A traditional guy is, in my experience, MORE likely to do such gentlemanly things as hold the door open for a lady. More modern guys figure she might be offended, or that she can get it herself if she wants.

i think what you mean .. bottom line, is which would women prefer... an american wild cowboy or a gentelmen from the classical streets of london...

Hey, don't forget us wild, spicy, and fun Mexicans!

In the US Army you get to choose 99% of the time. I'm told the Marines can choose now, too.

They do their best, but of course it only works as long as people want to go to all sorts of different places. If every soldier in the Army decided he wanted to go to Hawaii, you'd be right back where you started. And some MOSs can only go to certain bases, where their talents are required. In the AF, people in my career field were only ever assigned to headquarters units. That's only 6 bases worldwide. They don't just let you go anywhere.

Yeah, when I enlisted I was only given the choice of places where scouts were, which happened to include Germany, which happened to be exactly where I wanted :)

I also know that even if a woman knows how to fix a car, it's better to let him at least try first. ;)

LOL! :D