NationStates Jolt Archive

The title is self-explanitory.

Dodgy pronunciations.

The plethora of cases some languages distinguish in their grammar..

For some reason I have a knack for languages, which I guess is to counterbalance my complete and utter inability to do anything mathematical more complicated than addition.

Lack of a true alphabet. I had to give up Japanese because it was simply too hard to read.

Irregular everything.

Multiple genders=evil

Dodgy pronunciations.

And that from a native English speaker*. Oh, the irony.

(*I assume)

None of the above. Not so much, anyway. Those things are what make learning a language fun.

Irregular everything.

Indeed. I learned french in school. Of the twenty most useful french verbs, seventeen are irregular.

Multiple genders=evil


I agree. Though my native language also has that...

What makes certain languages hard for you?
Difficult phonetics. This particularly applies to the tonal languages, and languages with implosives and ejectives. And I still can do a trill.

Indeed. I learned french in school. Of the twenty most useful french verbs, seventeen are irregular.That makes a lot of sense sense the least used verbs turn irregular quickly. This is the same for every language, the verbs most used are most likely to be and stay irregular.

genders cos you don't really have to think about them in english/we don't have them to the best of my (probably wrong) knowledge

that, and rearranging grammar in general

genders and trying to remember to put the verb before the subject or the other way around adding in nouns and stuff, its just frustrating...

Not being exposed to it frequently.

It's easy for me to learn Spanish here because I'm in Southern California. Living here for over a decade and not knowing even bits of Spanish is depressing.

But it's harder for me to learn German. I can't exactly go outside and say "Ich heiße Colodia" and expect people to understand me.

But it's harder for me to learn German. I can't exactly go outside and say "Ich heiße Colodia" and expect people to understand me.
Aren't the Germans phasing out 'ß' in favour of just 'ss'?

Genders. Grammar. Pronounciation. Uh, everything...

The main problem is lack of use though. I believe you really need to be submerged in a language to learn it properly (or have some amazing natural talent, or really really great motivation).

Also forced language lessons = resentment and apathy. I've grown to hate French with a passion.

Aren't the Germans phasing out 'ß' in favour of just 'ss'?

Nah, not really. They just changed the rules on when it is used, i.e. a lot less than before. And as much as it pains me to say it, the ß-part of that whole reform crapfest actually makes sense.

Also, I'm impressed you guys even find the 'ß' on your keyboards. I can't even find the thingy the French use under some of their 'c's. And they're only one country over.

Also, I'm impressed you guys even find the 'ß' on your keyboards. I can't even find the thingy the French use under some of their 'c's. And they're only one country over.
Cut and paste. At least that's what I would have used. I don't even know how to write the Romanian special characters ş, ţ, â and ă (I goggled for some Romanian words and than I cut and pasted the letters :D).

Aren't the Germans phasing out 'ß' in favour of just 'ss'?
I don't really know. Since I've only been trying to learn German here and there the past half-year, I hope not. It's an interesting little thing.

Also, I'm impressed you guys even find the 'ß' on your keyboards. I can't even find the thingy the French use under some of their 'c's. And they're only one country over.
Alt+0223 = ß

Cut and paste. At least that's what I would have used. I don't even know how to write the Romanian special characters ş, ţ, â and ă (I goggled for some Romanian words and than I cut and pasted the letters :D).
ß=alt+0223, â=alt+0226 etc. I find it amusing to play around with that from time to time.

Edit: Damn you Colodia!

ß=alt+0223, â=alt+0226 etc. I find it amusing to play around with that from time to time.

Edit: Damn you Colodia!
Interesting. But really, pressing five keys to write just one letter... that's not for me. I wouldn't have the patience.

P.S. I tryed to write 'â' just for fun, but I couldn't. Maybe I have you have to install a program or something?

I hate genders. I can understand genders for words like man and female, but gato(spanish)? It's male? wtf. And the adjective has to agree with the noun in terms of plural/singular and gender? Four words for "the"? exceptions to the rules? It's no wonder The US is trying to get me to learn it. The American government is out to confuse me and get money from me with fines and whatnot. I mean, look at the tax structure. If I had to pay any more, the government would besicly be semi-communist(but still allowing me to keep stuff). God damn illegals and far-far-far-left wackos.(think leftist version of Paterson). Make the illegals learn English. I was here first. I'd have to learn their language if I moved to Mexico.

The closer it is to a Latinate language, the harder it is for me.

I know that seems counterintuitive, but at least with Uralic, Altaic or Afroasiatic (vs any PIE-Latinate) I can compartmentalize a bit.

The main problem is lack of use though. I believe you really need to be submerged in a language to learn it properly (or have some amazing natural talent, or really really great motivation).
I agree. As TV is such a great part of kids' life I think that the reason that many European children have trouble getting along with a second language such as English is greatly due to all their movies, cartoons and everything foreign being dubbed to their natural language.

Grammar, I speak BSL and I can't hack the grammar of learning other languages. It's hard, especially for me all that rearranging of words and sentences

I am fairly confident that at my current age and mind set I could learn the basics of any language within 2-4 weeks. I also think I could be intermediate with the language within 3 months. But this is all relying on whether I was living in the place of the new language or just taking classes.


P.S. Espanol and Nihon-go...I took espanol a while back, nihon-go just a couple months ago.

Espanol es muy facil :D

The only language I ever had difficulties with was Latin.
And that was because I hated it and never understood why our school system forced me to learn a dead language rather than a spoken one...
:D

Other than that, I speak English and French. No major problems.

... and trying to remember to put the verb before the subject or the other way around adding in nouns and stuff, its just frustrating...

Not a Jedi you are. :p

Interesting. But really, pressing five keys to write just one letter... that's not for me. I wouldn't have the patience.

P.S. I tryed to write 'â' just for fun, but I couldn't. Maybe I have you have to install a program or something?

Well, I have the '^' right there on my keyboard, so no problem with the 'â'.
As for the other multiple key combinations, I failed like you. Nothing happening.

But it's me. On a computer. Chances are I'm doing something stupidly wrong.

A different alphabet would trip me up. However I take German and my native language is English, which makes it somewhat easier given the similarities between the two. The only thing that can give me problems in German is the case-gender agreement; everything else is pretty easy.

â=alt+0226 etc

Umm, you do know that Swedish keyboards have the circumflex as a shift accessible symbol on the same key where the trema (¨) and the tilde (~) are, right next to the Enter key? So, ^ + a = â. No need for manual codes.

Latin has too many conjugations! Just when you thought you had done most of it learing present, imperfect, perfect, and plurperfect, you find out there's an active and passive for each one! Then there's the subjunctive, gerundives...etc...
Don't get me started on nouns and adjectives...

You know what, it would be so much easier if everyone in the world just used one language. Personally, I think US English would be the best choice.
:D

You know what, it would be so much easier if everyone in the world just used one language. Personally, I think US English would be the best choice.
:D

Received Pronunciation English (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Received_Pronunciation) is the one easiest to understand, if we're going to go with English dialects - US English is aberrant and, well, aesthetically unappealing.

Received Pronunciation English (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Received_Pronunciation) is the one easiest to understand, if we're going to go with English dialects - US English is aberrant and, well, aesthetically unappealing.Which version? South Dakota/TV Bland? Southern Drawl? New England Nasal? California Slovenly? Amish Old School? Ebonics? White Trash? Hip Hop? Spanglish?

There are indications that the dialects of the Appalatians are closer to Old English than anything else extant.

Never skip an opportunity to US Bash do you Fass? :rolleyes:

english is a horrifically difficult language to learn - the orthography, the 5000 synonyms we have for every little thing, the indirect passives, and, every foreigner's worst nightmare... phrasal verbs...


Which version? South Dakota/TV Bland? Southern Drawl? New England Nasal? California Slovenly? Amish Old School? Ebonics? White Trash? Hip Hop? Spanglish?

they're all noticeably different, but there's actually not that much linguistic variation in the us, for a country of its size.

english is a horrifically difficult language to learn - the orthography, the 5000 synonyms we have for every little thing, the indirect passives, and, every foreigner's worst nightmare... phrasal verbs...

they're all noticeably different, but there's actually not that much linguistic variation in the us, for a country of its size.
Well, Fass likes his appealing aesthetics - and the opportunity to look down on anything USian.. Aesthetically US dialects are vastly variable. (If you take into account the patois of NO and NYC Cabbie the two are virtually two completely different languages... :p )

There really isn't that much Linguistic variation between RP & "US English" either. There are a few noticable definitional and semantic shifts, but the Liguistic variation is on par with that of Seattle and NYC.

Which version? South Dakota/TV Bland? Southern Drawl? New England Nasal? California Slovenly? Amish Old School? Ebonics? White Trash? Hip Hop? Spanglish?

I was referring to General American (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_American) which is awful. There are several accents that are quite amusing to the ear, in a non-humourous way, such as the Boston one. It is anything but clear and/or suitable for adoption as a default accent, though. None of the ones in the US are.

There are indications that the dialects of the Appalatians are closer to Old English than anything else extant.

So? Old English is not spoken any more.

Never skip an opportunity to US Bash do you Fass? :rolleyes:

Never skip an opportunity to air a victim complex, do you, Syniks? Come now.

My inherient laziness and general apathy

Okay, to be more specific on which form of US English to use...
I would propose the entire world use Midwest US English, more specifically, East Nebraskan. It really does not have any "accents," and sticks to the dictionary (US) pronuniciation of words.

Okay, to be more specific on which form of US English to use...
I would propose the entire world use Midwest US English, more specifically, East Nebraskan. It really does not have any "accents," and sticks to the dictionary (US) pronuniciation of words.
No, my Californian accent is just fine. I actually enjoy putting "like" after every word.

No, my Californian accent is just fine. I actually enjoy putting "like" after every word.
Like totally, oh my god, like, for real. <--Abomination

Has anyone else here seen Gallic? That is a messed up language. You'll never guess how to pronounce "taorluath."

The fact I have a short fat 100% white lady teaching me spanish, and she spends half the class chiding us for asking questions, while constantly threating not to teach.

The lack of people to talk to in French really helped make it difficult to learn in school. Cantonese or Korean would have been much easier as about 10-15% of the people at my school can speak one (or both) of those languages. Other than that, my sucky English skills help make French more difficult.

Has anyone else here seen Gallic? That is a messed up language. You'll never guess how to pronounce "taorluath."

Gaelic? I have no idea how to say anything in it but white cow. but I'd like to learn.

Languages are only difficult for me because I am abysmally lazy and don't want to put out the effort to learn more than enough to get by. I'm learning Spanish on the job, because a number of my co-workers are Mexican. I expect that if I read enough of the foreign language threads on the forum, I'll pick up a little there, too.

God, I just realized what an arrogant bitch I sound like. Languages aren't hard for me, but that previous statement of mine is really egotistical. Sorry.

Currently still 'attempting' French.
Damn genders. [e.g. If there are women in a (location), it is feminine. If one male enters a (location) of 500 million (any number) of women, it is masculine.]
How sneaky and slippery is that?

Has anyone else here seen Gallic? That is a messed up language. You'll never guess how to pronounce "taorluath."

Ummm...tay-ORE-loo-ath? THAR-looth? SMITH? I give up.

Seriously, though, of all the languages I have thought about learning, I have been frustrated with all but two. Spanish was a piece of cake; it actually makes a bit more sense than English (which has no invitive for "should". Still can't figure that one out.) Genders are annoying, but it's no more annoying than all the bizarre silent letters and quirks in English.

Japanese was easy at first but manageable...except for all those damn Kanji. If the language were all Hiragana and Katakana I would have no trouble. Kanji drive me nuts and are a big reason I never considered Chinese.

The other big reason I never thought about Chinese? Tones. I took two quarters of Thai and don't remember a thing I learned. We learned everything in Roman characters, and the pronunciations used correlated in no way with how we read them. Aside from that, there are five different tones, so saying the right word with the wrong tone can get some dumb looks.

The other language I thought about learning but knew I would have a rough go of it was Arabic. Not because it's read right to left but because all the characters look like they just run together. It's a bunch of squiggles and dots...no defined characters the way Hebrew seems to have. Even on computers, Arabic looks like a bunch of squiggles and dots. Hebrew appears to have defined characters.

I'm studying arabic, for the Army, :mp5: right now, and it's pretty tough to read, but speaking it isn't as hard as I thought it would. The only difficult part is that you have to make really unnatural sounds, from the pit of your stomach, but other than that, it's a breeze!;)

The only language I ever had difficulties with was Latin.
And that was because I hated it and never understood why our school system forced me to learn a dead language rather than a spoken one...
:D

Other than that, I speak English and French. No major problems.

Aside from the variety of declensions and conjugations, Latin's fairly regular.

Russian drives me nuts sometimes because I swear there is no rule as to what case to use with what preposition. I think you just have to memorize them one at a time.

French? Too many letters for the phonemes. In English, you could name your dog Fido. Very simple, four leters In French, you would have to name your dog Phydaeux.

German? For chrissakes, make up an original word once in a while instead of constantly mashing words together! Hovercraft is a good one. Actually, French has a nice word for hovercraft: aeroglisseur. That's even cool sounding. But German, noooo, they have to have luftkissenfahrzeug, which is literally "air-kissing vehicle".

Chinese? Ok, you now have a language that rivals English in difficulty to learn. Combine fine nuances of pronunciation with no alphabet and there's not really any way to go about it except by brute force.

Aside from the variety of declensions and conjugations, Latin's fairly regular.

Russian drives me nuts sometimes because I swear there is no rule as to what case to use with what preposition. I think you just have to memorize them one at a time.

French? Too many letters for the phonemes. In English, you could name your dog Fido. Very simple, four leters In French, you would have to name your dog Phydaeux.

German? For chrissakes, make up an original word once in a while instead of constantly mashing words together! Hovercraft is a good one. Actually, French has a nice word for hovercraft: aeroglisseur. That's even cool sounding. But German, noooo, they have to have luftkissenfahrzeug, which is literally "air-kissing vehicle".

Chinese? Ok, you now have a language that rivals English in difficulty to learn. Combine fine nuances of pronunciation with no alphabet and there's not really any way to go about it except by brute force.

Well unless you count neutral tone, Mandarin only has four tones. It is difficult to learn, but easier in some ways than English. I'd say writing is harder, speaking is relatively easy once you learn tones. For example, you rarely need to use the verb "to be", there are no genders for objects, many words are combinations, and there really isn't even a word for yes, you just answer in the affirmative or negative form of the interrogative verb. I'm taking it right now and not doing great, but hopefully I'll start doing better soon.

But German, noooo, they have to have luftkissenfahrzeug, which is literally "air-kissing vehicle".
Actually, it's "air-pillow vehicle". Which makes a lot more sense. :)

Latin was easy. I just had a crap teacher.:D

Living in the US all my life, I still actually agree with Fass. American English is a butchered language. Most of us can't even speak our own language, at least not properly.

Plus I live in Kentucky, so I get to hear people using some of the strangest words occasionally. Believe it or not, northern Ky isn't the typical stereotype at all. Southern on the other hand heh, even I'm not sure they own shoes.

Then again though, as far as the different "types" of accents/speech we have in this country. I have an uncle thats cajun. And I'm not exxagerating this at all, it took me over 20 years of seeing him at all the family functions to understand what the hell he was saying. For 20 years of my life I probably caught a total of 20 words that he said. To this day I still lose some of his words and just have to piece it togethor from what I did get.

Quite funny sometimes though, last time I saw him. He went rambling off about his son and his horses. I swear the guy said damn 15 times in like 2 sentences. I instantly realized how he sounded exactly like the guy on King of The Hill and had to run outside I was laughing so hard.

Living in the US all my life, I still actually agree with Fass. American English is a butchered language. Most of us can't even speak our own language, at least not properly.

Plus I live in Kentucky, so I get to hear people using some of the strangest words occasionally. Believe it or not, northern Ky isn't the typical stereotype at all. Southern on the other hand heh, even I'm not sure they own shoes.

Then again though, as far as the different "types" of accents/speech we have in this country. I have an uncle thats cajun. And I'm not exxagerating this at all, it took me over 20 years of seeing him at all the family functions to understand what the hell he was saying. For 20 years of my life I probably caught a total of 20 words that he said. To this day I still lose some of his words and just have to piece it togethor from what I did get.

Quite funny sometimes though, last time I saw him. He went rambling off about his son and his horses. I swear the guy said damn 15 times in like 2 sentences. I instantly realized how he sounded exactly like the guy on King of The Hill and had to run outside I was laughing so hard.
You mean Boomhauer? *comment censored by the FCC*

Like totally, oh my god, like, for real. <--Abomination
"Totally" isn't used as much here.
"For real"...haven't heard that in awhile.


It's all "like."

Difficult pronunciations. :sniper:

You mean Boomhauer? *comment censored by the FCC*

Bingo!

Apparently he's my uncle lol

Bingo!

Apparently he's my uncle lol
Hedon'theyyoumancanyoumandriveyomanmemantothelikeairportman?

Tell me that is difficult to understand.