NationStates Jolt Archive

what he got em for is regardless(piece of shrapnel that was a fricken pin....) theyre on his record, and all his medals he was "awarded" hes got quite a record..

Wellllllll?

One thing I have learned being around combat veterns. Those that have awards rarely talk about them.

Awhile back there was an obit for a guy who died. He served in WWII like most of the men of his era. His son knew that but was shocked with what he found in his stuff.

Ribbons, Bronze Stars, Silver Star, I want to say Medal of Honor but I don't remember. There were photos of his dad shaking hands with Ike, Patton and a few others I don't remember He found his dad was second in command at Bastogne....

The reporter asked the guy was he mad that his dad never talked about his WWII experiences. The guy shrugged and said I am a little disappointed about finding this stuff after he is gone but that was dad. He didn't talk about such things. To him it was a job that had to be done and that was it.

I wish you'd all just blow it out your backsides instead of indulging in verbal diarrhea.

Ahmmm oookay!

Didn't you just do the same thing?

I wish you'd all just blow it out your backsides instead of indulging in verbal diarrhea.
And your post differentiates itself how?

And your post differentiates itself how?
It's short, to the point, and uses immaculate vocabulary. That's how it differentiates itself.

It's short, to the point, and uses immaculate vocabulary. That's how it differentiates itself.
But in the end useless as it adds nothing to the thread topic

You're really finding this a challenge, aren't ya. Let me try one ... more ... time!
This'd be cute if it had anything to do with the post you quoted.

1. Only those who have served in the military for three or more years would be eligible to vote.

2. No active duty military would be allowed to run for office ( just as now ).

As to John "seared-into-my-brain" Kerry, he would have cleared the hurdle of "having served," but not the hurdle of "having any sense as a result."
You don't even believe in it, as you've selected someone with less service. How am I supposed to get behind something you demonstrably do not believe in?

3. No one is suggesting anyone "take over the world."
Once more, with feeling-


Impossible. A totally militant government with such a superiority complex would basically be required to take over the world.
I don't necessarily see that as a bad thing, provided the society was still democratic in principle.

Can you get your mind around that now that I've broken it down into little bitty baby steps?
When will you ever, and I mean ever, be able to understand that we understand you but disagree? Maybe the day you start answering the questions you're actually asked instead of the ones you hallucinate.

Go ahead, worm out of the things you've already said. It's amussing to watch you twist in the wind.

When will you ever, and I mean ever, be able to understand that we understand you but disagree? Maybe the day you start answering the questions you're actually asked instead of the ones you hallucinate.

Go ahead, worm out of the things you've already said. It's amussing to watch you twist in the wind.I doubt he'll ever understand it. See, Eutrusca thinks that the problem isn't that we disagree for a reason--it's that we're just fucking idiots and if he explains it to us again in slightly different ways, we'll get it and acknowledge his genius. In that way, he's very much like Bush--he adopts the same tone in his speeches. But ever acknowledge that we have a point of view that just might be superior to his own? Never.

I doubt he'll ever understand it. See, Eutrusca thinks that the problem isn't that we disagree for a reason--it's that we're just fucking idiots and if he explains it to us again in slightly different ways, we'll get it and acknowledge his genius. In that way, he's very much like Bush--he adopts the same tone in his speeches. But ever acknowledge that we have a point of view that just might be superior to his own? Never.
Like "Dr." Gene Ray and TIME CUBE! (http://www.timecube.com)

I doubt he'll ever understand it. See, Eutrusca thinks that the problem isn't that we disagree for a reason--it's that we're just fucking idiots and if he explains it to us again in slightly different ways, we'll get it and acknowledge his genius. In that way, he's very much like Bush--he adopts the same tone in his speeches. But ever acknowledge that we have a point of view that just might be superior to his own? Never.
Yeah-gets to be like talking to a speak-n-spell. It doesn't take long for his own posts to argue with themselves, which is how I deal with it nowadays.

Yeah-gets to be like talking to a speak-n-spell. It doesn't take long for his own posts to argue with themselves, which is how I deal with it nowadays.
You have more patience than I do, that's for damn sure.

I doubt he'll ever understand it. See, Eutrusca thinks that the problem isn't that we disagree for a reason--it's that we're just fucking idiots and if he explains it to us again in slightly different ways, we'll get it and acknowledge his genius. In that way, he's very much like Bush--he adopts the same tone in his speeches. But ever acknowledge that we have a point of view that just might be superior to his own? Never.

Etrusca Pw3ns jouuu11!11!!!!1!!!!

Etrusca Pw3ns jouuu11!11!!!!1!!!!
Oh. Oh my. You have struck me down with your powerful wit. What ever shall I do to recover from such a stunning blow? Oh, the agony.:rolleyes:

Oh. Oh my. You have struck me down with your powerful wit. What ever shall I do to recover from such a stunning blow? Oh, the agony.:rolleyes:

I am feeling very wordy tonight.

Interesting. This country was born of the principles that taxation without representation was wrong, that all are created equal, that our government should be by, of, and for the people. Now, we've got some goofy military type who wants that war all over again.

The Founding Fathers didn't trust standing armies. Eut, your idea is a shining example of the tyranny they feared.

http://www.fff.org/freedom/fd0409a.asp

I am feeling very wordy tonight.
I can tell ... the last post by you was the best arguement I have seen from you yet

Interesting. This country was born of the principles that taxation without representation was wrong, that all are created equal, that our government should be by, of, and for the people.
FINALLY! After 18 pages, someone posts something intelligent. The whole idea behind our current system is the currious notion that that the goverment should be by, for, and of the people. Any time we start excluding groups, we weaken what was fought for. We've spent 236 years opening it up more and more to make sure that all who want it have a voice, wise or not, used or not, but a voice none the less; why are you now proposing to turn it back Eut?

The US Army has "stress" cards - sort of a "get out of duty for a minute" card when you feel you've been stressed too much.
And here we have our Urban Legend of the day. Congratulations.
http://www.snopes.com/military/stress.htm

Yeah-gets to be like talking to a speak-n-spell. It doesn't take long for his own posts to argue with themselves, which is how I deal with it nowadays.
Kewl! When do you start?

FINALLY! After 18 pages, someone posts something intelligent. The whole idea behind our current system is the currious notion that that the goverment should be by, for, and of the people. Any time we start excluding groups, we weaken what was fought for. We've spent 236 years opening it up more and more to make sure that all who want it have a voice, wise or not, used or not, but a voice none the less; why are you now proposing to turn it back Eut?
It never was a serious proposal, as I mentioned several times, just an interesting conjecture.

And here we have our Urban Legend of the day. Congratulations.
http://www.snopes.com/military/stress.htm
Hah! I love it.:D

It never was a serious proposal, as I mentioned several times, just an interesting conjecture.
Thank God for that, I thought you might have had too MUCH holiday egg nog and had taken leave from your senses. :p

snip


And here we have our Urban Legend of the day. Congratulations.
http://www.snopes.com/military/stress.htm
Intresting! I have heard this before (about the card) but had not known it was a myth

Kewl! When do you start?
Knock yourself out, tiger. (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10202648&postcount=256)

Intresting! I have heard this before (about the card) but had not known it was a myth
I one time got REALLY bored and spent a month reading through all of Snopes (and I mean ALL of Snopes) and some things just stuck.

Yeah. It tells me that three purple hearts you get for doing stupid shit doesn't qualify you to be President.


How about a Silver Service Star, and Bronze Star?

The second, and third highest awards for meritorious service, if I'm not mistaken.
Kerry has those too.

This doesnt mean he'd be good at anything, but of you're going to make fun of his military record, at least give him due credit.

Kewl! When do you start?
You mean like-
3. No one is suggesting anyone "take over the world."



Impossible. A totally militant government with such a superiority complex would basically be required to take over the world.
I don't necessarily see that as a bad thing, provided the society was still democratic in principle.

Of course I realise that this goes through some processor with you that translates into a personal vendetta or something rather than a contradiction in your own words, but there is always the third party reader. I've long since ceased to expect integrity from you. Something about just makin' shit up about people...

Knock yourself out, tiger. (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10202648&postcount=256)
Thanks man. Not that he'll ever acknowledge it...

Of course I realise that this goes through some processor with you that translates into a personal vendetta or something rather than a contradiction in your own words, but there is always the third party reader. I've long since ceased to expect integrity from you. Something about just makin' shit up about people...

He's a Bushevik. You expected integrity from him at the beginning?

This doesnt mean he'd be good at anything, but of you're going to make fun of his military record, at least give him due credit.
Damn you and your facts!

You mean like-
3. No one is suggesting anyone "take over the world."

Impossible. A totally militant government with such a superiority complex would basically be required to take over the world.
I don't necessarily see that as a bad thing, provided the society was still democratic in principle.
Of course I realise that this goes through some processor with you that translates into a personal vendetta or something rather than a contradiction in your own words, but there is always the third party reader. I've long since ceased to expect integrity from you. Something about just makin' shit up about people...
I'll giive you one thing ... you do know how to conduct a "vendetta."

Even a cursory reading of those quotes you post proves that it was not I who either suggested or advocated "taking over the world." If you will actually, you know ... like, read the quotes, those words were used by "Teh_pantless_hero," not me. All I said was that "I don't necessarily see that as a bad thing." Please explain to me the discrepancy between the actual quotes and what you are accusing me of. If you cannot do so, I suggest you drop the matter. You're becoming tiresome.

Damn you and your facts!
Facts about John "Seared-into-my-brain" Kerry:

* Mr. Kerry was assigned to Swiftboat 44 on December 1, 1968. Within 24 hours, he had his first Purple Heart. Mr. Kerry accumulated three Purple Hearts in four months with not even a day of duty lost from wounds, according to his training officer. It's a pity one cannot read his Purple Heart medical treatment reports which have been withheld from the public. The only person preventing their release is Mr. Kerry.

* "[T]he fabled and distinguished chief of naval operations, Admiral Elmo Zumwalt, told me — 30 years ago when he was still CNO —that during his own command of U.S. naval forces in Vietnam, just prior to his anointment as CNO, young Kerry had created great problems for him and the other top brass, by killing so many non-combatant civilians and going after other non-military targets. 'We had virtually to straitjacket him to keep him under control,' the admiral said. 'Bud' Zumwalt got it right when he assessed Kerry as having large ambitions — but promised that his career in Vietnam would haunt him if he were ever on the national stage." And this statement was made despite the fact Zumwalt had personally pinned a Silver Star on Mr. Kerry.

* By his own admission during those four months, Mr. Kerry continually kept ramming his Swiftboat onto an enemy-held shore on assorted occasions alone and with a few men, killing civilians and even a wounded enemy soldier. One can begin to appreciate Zumwalt's problem with Mr. Kerry as commander of an unarmored craft dependent upon speed of maneuver to keep it and its crew from being shot to pieces.
Mr. Kerry now refers to those civilian deaths as "accidents of war. "And within four days of his third Purple Heart, Mr. Kerry applied to take advantage of a technicality which allowed him to request immediate transfer to a stateside post.

* Once back in the States, Mr. Kerry joined "the struggle for our veterans," as he called it last week in Atlanta, by joining a scruffy organization called the Vietnam Veterans Against the War. The VVAW's executive director, Al Hubbard, supposedly a former Air Force captain wounded in Vietnam, quickly appointed Mr. Kerry to the executive committee.

* Mr. Kerry stated there were "war crimes committed in Southeast Asia...not isolated incidents but crimes committed on a day-today basis with the full awareness of officers at all levels of command. They relived the absolute horror of what this country, in a sense, made them do."Then Mr. Kerry got specific: "They had personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages in fashion reminiscent of Genghis Khan, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the countryside of South Vietnam...we are more guilty than any other body of violations of those Geneva Conventions; in the use of free-fire zones, harassment interdiction fire, search-and-destroy missions, the bombings, the torture of prisoners, all accepted policy by many units in South Vietnam."

And you wonder why I hate the son-of-a-bitch. He was a "glory hound" who wanted to claim to be a Vietnam veteran, then turn against his brothers so he could claim to be "against the war," all for personal political gain. He's a thoroughly disgusting quasi-human thing.

I'm sorry, but Purple Hearts are not Medals of Honor. What is the qualification for a Purple Heart? Wounding in military service?

Also, praytell where you are getting these "facts" before I continue, because if I recall, I can cite how he got his Purple Hearts, thus making your first "fact" bullshit.

I'm sorry, but Purple Hearts are not Medals of Honor. What is the qualification for a Purple Heart? Wounding in military service?

Also, praytell where you are getting these "facts" before I continue, because if I recall, I can cite how he got his Purple Hearts, thus making your first "fact" bullshit.Anyone want to bet it's someone related to "Swift Boat Veterans for Utter Bullshit, um, I mean Truth?"

Anyone want to bet it's someone related to "Swift Boat Veterans for Utter Bullshit, um, I mean Truth?"
From the quotation marks next to the bullet points, I give "Swiftboat Veterans for Slander" a 99.9% chance of being the source.

Agreed. Never said otherwise. I just think it would be interesting ( to say the least ) if we required all candidates for public office at the federal level to have served in the military. As my favorite Vulcan use to say: "Fascinating!" :)

Not to mention: Idiotic!

When you consider all of the issues government is required to handle, the notion that people who have had a military career are likely to be best suited to all cases is laughable!

Should all judges, DA's, Prosecuters come from a strong bacjkground in military law instead of civil/criminal/constitutional? Thos jobs count as public office don't they?

What does the military teach about managing early childhood education?

Social programs?

Broad fiscal policy?

Natural resource management?

International Trade?

Labour laws?

Not that there aren't some skills that translate well. Public duty, work ethic, teamwork, etc.


But the notion that being a grunt AUTOMATICALLY makes you a better public servant is laughable. You'd preclude Mother Theresa from considering a federal position managing resources for the poor that way.....

No, having a pool from the widest possible background is the best option. More backgrounds equates to bringing more points of view at the table to consider.


Although disqualifying Cheney from his job IS an attractive notion! lol.

http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/1853/kerrynvnflag4as.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/1853/kerrynvnflag4as.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
I know that answers my question. :rolleyes:

http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/4966/deedeedee6tz.jpg


What does the military teach about managing early childhood education?
Have three kids then go overseas to leave them at home with mom to be shown on the Today show?

[QUOTE=Eutrusca]Facts about John "Seared-into-my-brain" Kerry:
<snip>QUOTE]

You know, at least he served. Not like the current resident of the oval office, who used his father's connections to get into the air national guard, lost his flight status, and then left to play politics. Pay stubs don't mean much when nobody you were supposed to be working with has any recollection of seeing you at work. In effect, Bush DESERTED during a time of war, and it was covered up because of his connections. Now who's slime again? Kerry served, regardless of how you view that service, and at least Clinton honestly dodged the draft :-p

http://img388.imageshack.us/img388/7202/kerrynewsoldier4vi.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Clinton honestly dodged the draft
I guess that about takes care of any credibility you had with me. Next!

I guess that about takes care of any credibility you had with me. Next!
Most of the time, not having cred with you is a net plus, especially in threads like this one, where you've been busted repeatedly and refused to answer any of the charges.

Well, Eutrusca, since you have been found out about citing debunked and old "facts" posted by a debunked organization, I guess you are going to resort to posting pictures of nothing in particular and pretending they prove some imaginary point. Well, I have pictures of my own, and I think this one should fix everything.

http://img309.imageshack.us/img309/9568/shutthellup3oo.jpg

Well, Eutrusca, since you have been found out about citing debunked and old "facts" posted by a debunked organization, I guess you are going to resort to posting pictures of nothing in particular and pretending they prove some imaginary point. Well, I have pictures of my own, and I think this one should fix everything.

http://img309.imageshack.us/img309/9568/shutthellup3oo.jpg
How very ... mature of you. Were you always this childish, or did you have to work at it?

How very ... mature of you. Were you always this childish, or did you have to work at it?
No, it's natural. I havn't had quite as long to work on it as you have.

Most of the time, not having cred with you is a net plus, especially in threads like this one, where you've been busted repeatedly and refused to answer any of the charges.
"Charges?" I wasn't aware that this was a court of law or a police station. As to the spurious allegations made concerning my posts and the baseless assertions that I was somehow advocating the US taking over the world, most normal people can see that they have been effectively refuted. Your continuing refusal to either comprehend or accept that refutation only serves to illustrate how far your head is up your fourth point of contact. Goodbye. :D

Not to mention: Idiotic!

When you consider all of the issues government is required to handle, the notion that people who have had a military career are likely to be best suited to all cases is laughable!

Should all judges, DA's, Prosecuters come from a strong bacjkground in military law instead of civil/criminal/constitutional? Thos jobs count as public office don't they?

What does the military teach about managing early childhood education?

Not that there aren't some skills that translate well. Public duty, work ethic, teamwork, etc.

But the notion that being a grunt AUTOMATICALLY makes you a better public servant is laughable. You'd preclude Mother Theresa from considering a federal position managing resources for the poor that way.....

No, having a pool from the widest possible background is the best option. More backgrounds equates to bringing more points of view at the table to consider.

Here, again you misunderstand the the nature of Service. Not everyone is physically or mentally qualified to serve in a Military capacity - but you don't need to be in the Military to Serve.

Imagine that a Small Government is run by Dedicated Servants - who have given up their rigt to vote themselves pay raises - with the work being done by a young, energetic, idealistic force of people desiring to earn themselves the Franchise by choosing to work for the Government agency that fits them best.

No one becomes "entrenched". People are more interested in Doing than Pushing Paper. Obscenely over-priced Civillian Contracting becomes a thing of the past because the Govt has a viable non-military work force.

Pampered Gits have to spend at least some part of their lives working for a living - if they want to vote.

The Military is only one way to Serve.

Here, again you misunderstand the the nature of Service. Not everyone is physically or mentally qualified to serve in a Military capacity - but you don't need to be in the Military to Serve.

Imagine that a Small Government is run by Dedicated Servants - who have given up their rigt to vote themselves pay raises - with the work being done by a young, energetic, idealistic force of people desiring to earn themselves the Franchise by choosing to work for the Government agency that fits them best.

No one becomes "entrenched". People are more interested in Doing than Pushing Paper. Obscenely over-priced Civillian Contracting becomes a thing of the past because the Govt has a viable non-military work force.

Pampered Gits have to spend at least some part of their lives working for a living - if they want to vote.

The Military is only one way to Serve.

but what happens when the young ideologues become old and cynical? Do you just arbitrarily fire them at age 30 as they must no longer have the drive? don't you call that "flushing experience down the toilet?"

And I think most civil servants WOULD prefer doing over documenting. The problem is that the public hate the paperwork but also WANTS the documentation to ensure accountability with respect to how their tax dollars are managed. It is a tough balancing act that always errs on the side of accountability, unfortunately often to the detriment of the actual work.


But as a final thought to the originator's general precepts: Required military service both for holding office AND for voting rights. When you have an army voting for itself as means of governing, do we get to call that a Junta? Or just a tinpot military dictatorship?


As you say, there are many ways to serve. And the notion that the only one that can qualify you to serve all aspects of the populace is to volunteer to kill on command for it is a rediculous notion.

I'm sorry, but Purple Hearts are not Medals of Honor. What is the qualification for a Purple Heart? Wounding in military service?

Also, praytell where you are getting these "facts" before I continue, because if I recall, I can cite how he got his Purple Hearts, thus making your first "fact" bullshit.

It's not the Purple Hearts that bothered me - it's the fact that he used the "three Purple Hearts and you can ask to go home" to go home way early in his tour.

It's not the Purple Hearts that bothered me
Well, that's lovely, but this wasn't a discussion about what you think. It was about Eutrusca.

but what happens when the young ideologues become old and cynical? Do you just arbitrarily fire them at age 30 as they must no longer have the drive? don't you call that "flushing experience down the toilet?" Nope. You sign up for a hitch, just like the Military. You can perpetually "Re-Up" as long as you like - but as long as you are in Government Employ you cannot vote. This would ensure dedication to Service, not Paycheck.
And I think most civil servants WOULD prefer doing over documenting. The problem is that the public hate the paperwork but also WANTS the documentation to ensure accountability with respect to how their tax dollars are managed.And they are getting that now in what way?
It is a tough balancing act that always errs on the side of accountability, unfortunately often to the detriment of the actual work.Streamline the system, and less documentation needs to be done.
But as a final thought to the originator's general precepts: Required military service both for holding office AND for voting rights. When you have an army voting for itself as means of governingUnder the Heineinian System, no one in Gvernment Employ - and that includes the Military - is allowed to vote because of the Conflict of Interest. Only those who have Served in some capacity and have re-entered Civillian Life can vote or Run.

As you say, there are many ways to serve. And the notion that the only one that can qualify you to serve all aspects of the populace is to volunteer to kill on command for it is a rediculous notion.
OTOH, saying that you are Qualified to vote (i.e. hold an INFORMED opinion) just because you are 18 &/or have a driver's license is equally rediculous.

How about a Silver Service Star, and Bronze Star?

The second, and third highest awards for meritorious service, if I'm not mistaken.
Kerry has those too.

This doesnt mean he'd be good at anything, but of you're going to make fun of his military record, at least give him due credit.
Is this the Silver Star that was re-issued under a couple different SecNavs? Probably worth the paper Kerry used to commend himself. If that service record were ever released, we might know for sure.

I'll giive you one thing ... you do know how to conduct a "vendetta."
Yeah. That's it. It's a vendetta. For some reason I've got it 'out' for some dude on the internet. It couldn't possible be that I disagree, or that I find the arguements disengenious. No, it has to be a vendetta. Because you're that important. Get over yourself.

Even a cursory reading of those quotes you post proves that it was not I who either suggested or advocated "taking over the world." If you will actually, you know ... like, read the quotes, those words were used by "Teh_pantless_hero," not me. All I said was that "I don't necessarily see that as a bad thing." Please explain to me the discrepancy between the actual quotes and what you are accusing me of. If you cannot do so, I suggest you drop the matter. You're becoming tiresome.
Hmmm. So, someone suggests that your little idea would require that a military that big would have to take over the world.

Do you:
a) Refute such a notion? "No, it wouldn't have to. Perhaps the increase in manpower could be used to build low income housing and feed the poor."
No, no you don't.

Do you:
b) Reject the idea of world concouring? "No good has ever come of anyone trying to 'take over the world,' despite their intentions."
No, you don't do that either. Let's got to the board and see what it is you did again-



Impossible. A totally militant government with such a superiority complex would basically be required to take over the world.
I don't necessarily see that as a bad thing, provided the society was still democratic in principle.

See, now we do have the statement by Teh_pantless_hero-Oh, wait-let's examine his statement--He starts off with "Impossible." Wait now, this sounds like he takes a dim view of something and is going to say why! He even goes on to claim the "military government" would have "such a superiority complex" that it would be "required to take over the world." My my. It certainly doesn't seem like Teh_pantless_hero doesn't think that's a good thing, but who would?
I don't necessarily see that as a bad thing, provided the society was still democratic in principle.
Oh right, you would. Let's look-we already have the notion that a military government with a supiorirty complex would have to take over the world and you respond with "I don't necissarily see that as a bad thing." You see, Trusci, we 'readers' call that an affirmation-an indicator that you agree with the stated proposal, that you advocate its assertation, have given a possitive response to the conclusion, have endorsed the idea.

So yes, it was pantless' statement, but even he didn't think it was a good thing. You did.

Now go ahead, post a silly picture. Maybe that fish smiley. That never gets old...

So umm...cut and run?

I say........NAY! Finish what we started. A stable government in Iraq goes a LONG way towards a more stable and hadji-free middle east.

I really hope that you're not using the word 'hadji' as a derogatory term.

I really hope that you're not using the word 'hadji' as a derogatory term.

He probably meant Jihadi......

I really hope that you're not using the word 'hadji' as a derogatory term.


Yup. I've heaerd many phrases used as pronouns for terrorists and insurgents-Hadjis, Guys-in-dirty-nightshirts, jihadis, camel jockeys, Sand monkeys, etc.

The Iraqi Police and Army don't care if you call them Hadjis. It means "slave to allah" I think.

Yup. I've heaerd many phrases used as pronouns for terrorists and insurgents-Hadjis, Guys-in-dirty-nightshirts, jihadis, camel jockeys, Sand monkeys, etc.

The Iraqi Police and Army don't care if you call them Hadjis. It means "slave to allah" I think.

If it means "slave to Allah", then it would be a turn that you could call pretty much all Muslims. Were you implying that you intend to rid the Middle East of Muslims?

If it means "slave to Allah", then it would be a turn that you could call pretty much all Muslims. Were you implying that you intend to rid the Middle East of Muslims?

Only the ones that run around in Dirty hightshirts with towels on their heads, chopping off the heads of innocent people, car bombing schools, killing peace workers, attacking my homeland, and in general causing mischeif.

Arn't they busy little bees.

They are running around in the middle east with "towels" on their heads chopping off people's heads and blowing up cars and simultaneously attacking a nation on the other side of the world, and considering the way they are working there, I can only assume they are attacking us physically, making the "towel heads" very dangerous with their ability to be in two places at once.

Imagine that a Small Government is run by Dedicated Servants - who have given up their rigt to vote themselves pay raises - with the work being done by a young, energetic, idealistic force of people desiring to earn themselves the Franchise by choosing to work for the Government agency that fits them best.
Interesting... and were do you plan to find all those people needed? The goverment has bloat, yes, but the idea of retuning the goverment to staffing levels of pre-WWII is plain silly; not with the third largest population in the world.

While there's a lot of really dedicated people out there, I'm not sure we'd have enough to staff the goverment, at all levels, to make things run.

No one becomes "entrenched". People are more interested in Doing than Pushing Paper. Obscenely over-priced Civillian Contracting becomes a thing of the past because the Govt has a viable non-military work force.
People say that I'm a dreamer... but I'm not the only one...

Pampered Gits have to spend at least some part of their lives working for a living - if they want to vote.
*rather amused* So most goverment workers are not working for a living? That's news to me. Both my parents are state workers and both come home exhausted. One from trying to teach youth in a state prison enough carpentry to get them a job when they get out and the other from making sure the state paid its bills on time as demanded by the public. The only ones I've ever seen who are worthless are the state equvlient of the pointy-haired managers, but that's the same in the private world.

I've always wondered about the phrase working for a living, so I'll ask you about it. What the hell does that mean? I would assume that as long as you have not somehow recieved wealth from some source, you do have to work for a living. Or are you somehow denoting that only certain types of labor are actually working? Private vs goverment makes little sense as they mirror each other. Physical vs non perhaps? Enlighten me please.

*sigh* Yeah - we don't want those pesky disabled people voting.
As a disabled American, thank you for pointing that out.