NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canadavotes2006/national/2005/12/31/martin-gun051231.html


Martin will support "reverse onus" bail conditions, which means people accused of gun crimes must prove why they should be released.

The pledge came during a Saturday phone call with Ontario Premier Dalton McGuinty and Toronto Mayor David Miller.


Just wow...this is a sign of a party that should be running Canada? I can't believe that this was suggested by the idiot Toronto mayor and Dalton McGuinty.

I'm very happy that Conservatives are winning the polls, even if it by a little. Just wish the soft base NDP voters would vote NDP instead of Liberal to avoid Conservatives winning though. Strategic voting my ass.

Bump

Canada City']<snip>
....You just made me a little bit happier that I'm not Canadian....

Here at NS, you're not officially allowed to criticize the Liberals in Canada, especially when they're doing such a "great" job in reducing gun crime with their gun registration program and their new proposals to confiscate guns.

That's probably why no one is responding to your post - it's perfectly OK for a Liberal in Canada to say "guilty until proven innocent".

Now, if you had brought up that same concept as coming from Bush, there would be plenty of traffic on this thread.

Yes, this is the worst idea ever.

Apparently Deep Kimchi didn't read the whole post, because it only refers to gun violence, and since the other methods aren't working, they need one that will work.

Mind you, I'm normally all for 'innocent until proven guilty', but, frankly, I've had it with the bloody gun violence in my home town, and if there is a way to get these assholes out of our streets, then why not. I'm so sick of all thr cries about 'racial profiling'. Tough! You're caught with a gun and you've got a history, well, that was your choice.

At least you not on my street.

Yeah I know, if Bush said something like this, every leftist 'useful idiot' would be coming up with theories on how Bush is trying to start a new world order.

But when a Canadian does it, it is the next step in the civil 'rights'

Apparently Deep Kimchi didn't read the whole post, because it only refers to gun violance, and since the other methods aren't working, they need one that will work.

And how does putting people in jail and they need to prove themselves "not guilty" work?

Apparently Deep Kimchi didn't read the whole post, because it only refers to gun violance, and since the other methods aren't working, they need one that will work.
As I recall, the gun registration program, which cost BILLIONS more than promised, and still hasn't been effectively implemented in all provinces, was supposed to reduce gun violence by limiting the access that criminals have to guns.

Great idea - attack the inanimate objects instead of addressing the root causes of violent crime.

Canada City']And how does putting people in jail and they need to prove themselves "not guilty" work?
Fine, since you don't seem to mind, how about Toronto gives you its gun-related violence problem and we'll let you deal with it as you see fit.

Mind you, I'm normally all for 'innocent until proven guilty', but, frankly, I've had it with the bloody gun violence in my home town, and if there is a way to get these assholes out of our streets, then why not. I'm so sick of all thr cries about 'racial profiling'. Tough! You're caught with a gun and you've got a history, well, that was your choice.


The thing is, if you're caught with a gun and have a history, you won't get out anyway.

This law is merely an attempt to reduce the power of the judiciary, which is never a good thing.

Great idea - attack the inanimate objects instead of addressing the root causes of violent crime.
Well, then... maybe everyone should vote NDP then, as they will actually go to the root of the problem. But, since that isn't going to happen because people are too bloody afraid of the NDP, we need something else, an idea that ISN'T coming from the damn Conservatives.

Fine, since you don't seem to mind, how about Toronto gives you its gun-related violence problem and we'll let you deal with it as you see fit.

We seem to have taken giant steps here in the US. A drop in gun violence by 55 to 60 percent overall (including firearm homicide) during a period where gun ownership radically increased, and 35 states passed laws making it mandatory for the states to give you a concealed carry permit on demand as long as you weren't a felon.

Banning handguns isn't going to stop the problem. The problem in Toronto is a social problem - involving people.

Until you address that, there will be killing.

If you own a handgun in Toronto, it's probably not because you hunt rats.

Fine, since you don't seem to mind, how about Toronto gives you its gun-related violence problem and we'll let you deal with it as you see fit.

CCW in Canada! :)

The thing is, if you're caught with a gun and have a history, you won't get out anyway.

This law is merely an attempt to reduce the power of the judiciary, which is never a good thing.
The judiciary was going soft anyway.

Holmolka is walking free and there are too many assholes out there with guns.

The judiciary was going soft anyway.

That's not a problem that should be addressed by legislation.

The judiciary was going soft anyway.

Holmolka is walking free and there are too many assholes out there with guns.

We've radically increased the number of guns in the US from 200 million to 300 million, and reduced our firearm violence by 55 to 60 percent over the same time period.

Violent crime in general is at an all time low.

That's not a problem that should be addressed by legislation.
How should it be addressed then? Their job is to enforce the law as it is written....

How should it be addressed then? Their job is to enforce the law as it is written....

How is the judiciary placed in Canada? (Election, postings,etc.)

If they're not doing thier jobs, vote them out or vote out the people who placed them.

How is the judiciary placed in Canada? (Election, postings,etc.)

If they're not doing thier jobs, vote them out or vote out the people who placed them.
Vote then out? Hehehehe... nice idea, but until they change the system, the only assholes we elect are: our city council reps, Members of Provincial Parliament (MPPs) and Members of Parliament (MPs)

Vote then out? Hehehehe... nice idea, but until they change the system, the only assholes we elect are: our city council reps, Members of Provincial Parliament (MPPs) and Members of Parliament (MPs)

That's why I asked. In the US, different levels of the judiciary are chosen in different ways. I'm pretty sure there's variances by state/locality as well.

Are they appointed for life or by administration? If by administration, vote out the appointers.

That's why I asked. In the US, different levels of the judiciary are chosen in different ways. I'm pretty sure there's variances by state/locality as well.

Are they appointed for life or by administration? If by administration, vote out the appointers.
Yes, but I've never heard of anyone being removed from office following a change to the PMO. Hell, there are still Senators sitting that were appointed under the Mulroney administration...

Yes, but I've never heard of anyone being removed from office following a change to the PMO. Hell, there are still Senators sitting that were appointed under the Mulroney administration...

Have enough people made a stink about them though? Down here, a magazine called "Readers Digest" regulary prints articles on judges that have abused their authority. Quite a few get discharged or voted out.

I've also been reading more articles recently about the UK and how the judiciary has been actively keeping criminals out of jail. People are getting most cheesed. If the situation is similar in Canada, instead of Martin's "guilty until proven innocent" and "punish the LAC's for criminals actions", action towards a more stringent judiciary and better social programs would help.

Yes, but I've never heard of anyone being removed from office following a change to the PMO. Hell, there are still Senators sitting that were appointed under the Mulroney administration...

How about DPP's? Are they elected or appointed?

Canada City'] Paul Martin: Guilty until proven innocent.

Martin will support "reverse onus" bail conditions, which means people accused of gun crimes must prove why they should be released.

There, I've highlighted the operative word for you. This is before any guilt or innocence is determined by the courts you know, so it really isn't about the presumption of innocence.

Canada City']Yeah I know, if Bush said something like this, every leftist 'useful idiot' would be coming up with theories on how Bush is trying to start a new world order.

Quite the oppostite. If Bush would be doing this, or anything at all against gun crimes, he would be cheered by the leftist, me included.

Quite the oppostite. If Bush would be doing this, or anything at all against gun crimes, he would be cheered by the leftist, me included.
Better start cheering then.

Gun murders and gun crime has fallen between 55 and 65 percent in the US.

Firearm murders are at an all time low. So is violent crime.

During this time, gun ownership increased 50 percent, to an all time high of 300 million firearms.

Personnally, I'd be more for a "keep those proven guilty of gun crimes in jail" policy. You know, not letting them out at 1/6 of their stay.

I don't think bail time is much of an issue. Who is gonna be stupid enough to go ahead and commit a second gun crime while waiting for a trial for the first one?

But if those who commit gun crimes actually end up spending a couple of years in prison, instead of a couple of months, maybe they'll get the message.

We also need to adress the issues of poverty and ethnic street gangs in Toronto, as well as devise a way to stop the illegal firearms crossing our border from the united states if we want to put a stop to this.

Quite the oppostite. If Bush would be doing this, or anything at all against gun crimes, he would be cheered by the leftist, me included.

So wait...you actually support "Guilty until proven innocent" ?

I thought you leftist support civil rights. You bitch about the patriot act and wire tapping, but don't mind this?

Make up your mind.

It's only for bail hearings...

It's only for bail hearings...

Indeed. But normal procedures seem to work fine for those accused of assault and child molestation, so why should there be a special procedure for those accuse of gun crime.