NationStates Jolt Archive

Read this article:

The Swedish Feeding Trough (http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,392850,00.html)

This is just weird. A sign of the times perhaps...

What do you think?

I love these types of stories they are very interesting. There is good and bad in it. Screeching kids and mom dosn't return. Says something dosn't it.

I believe Toys R Us is being used as a daycare as well.

Read this article:

The Swedish Feeding Trough (http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,392850,00.html)

This is just weird. A sign of the times perhaps...

What do you think?
Kudos to the store for its services to the less well-off. A slap across the chops for those who abuse it.

I believe Toys R Us is being used as a daycare as well.
I used to work at TRU and believe me it is, I used to get so mad at parents I would see them drop the kids off and leave to go to the mall that is across the street and come back to pick them up, I called the cops a few times, I mean you don't just leave your kids somewhere, we aren't there to watch them, think about it really, if you were a pedophile wouldn't you be hanging out at a toy store looking for kids that were alone that you could grab?

sorry for the rant.

oh btw, My husband and I have been known to go to Sam's on free sample day for lunch, we get to eat a lot of free food (even if it is a bite here and a bite there) and can get a 64oz soda for about 75 cents to share, it's a cheap way to eat when you are running low on funds. ;)

This just shows how enormous Ikea is. Without it all Sweden would have is snow and fish.

ya, when iWorked retail in a big boxish store, we had parents dropping off kids in the kids book section, while they shopped.

the manager at the time's opinion was like (from memory, like 5 years ago) the parents can take the risk. you won't leave anything out valuable would you?

iWas tempted to call too, Smunkeeville.

I used to work at TRU and believe me it is, I used to get so mad at parents I would see them drop the kids off and leave to go to the mall that is across the street and come back to pick them up, I called the cops a few times, I mean you don't just leave your kids somewhere, we aren't there to watch them, think about it really, if you were a pedophile wouldn't you be hanging out at a toy store looking for kids that were alone that you could grab?

sorry for the rant.

oh btw, My husband and I have been known to go to Sam's on free sample day for lunch, we get to eat a lot of free food (even if it is a bite here and a bite there) and can get a 64oz soda for about 75 cents to share, it's a cheap way to eat when you are running low on funds. ;)

You may hate me for this but there are manny a people with a sexual interest in children who do not wish them harm. In fact I think most people who find children to be sexually attractive do not wish to see them hurt. There are of course a few who do not mind cuasing harm to children for there own pleasure.

I can just hear the NAMBLA retoric already.

Peer pressure rocks. We should all kick the crap out of (figuratively or in reality, your choice as the case in question may warrant), kick the crap out of the parents that you know who even have tendencies towards thinking this sort of behavior is acceptable.

The weekly community standard for keeping these things in check, which were the various churches, mosques, temples and synagogues, etc., that were frequented in years past but are much less so these days (especially so in Europe and Urban America) that it’s now up to the relatives, friends of the family, neighbors, and co-workers and whatnot (who frankly are a poor substitute for the religious institutions, but we have to work with what we’ve got) to keep each family and their parents focused on what’s important during our daily lives, and to help us all keep our priorities and perspectives in balance.

You may hate me for this but there are manny a people with a sexual interest in children who do not wish them harm. In fact I think most people who find children to be sexually attractive do not wish to see them hurt. There are of course a few who do not mind cuasing harm to children for there own pleasure.

I can just hear the NAMBLA retoric already.
I am aware of that. I am just saying that there were some creepy characters around, and if you were someone who was looking to pick up a kid, a toy store would be an ideal place (because that's where kids are)

You may hate me for this but there are manny a people with a sexual interest in children who do not wish them harm. In fact I think most people who find children to be sexually attractive do not wish to see them hurt. There are of course a few who do not mind cuasing harm to children for there own pleasure.

I can just hear the NAMBLA retoric already.


What the hell is that post about? If someone has a 'sexual interest' in children, they have a desire to harm children, period, the two things cannot be separated from each other. The degree of harm from that contact may change, but the fact that harm is done every single time the pedophile encounters a child is not altered by the degree of the contact.

I don't care what the American Psychological Association has on it's 'mental illnesses list, I don't care if they don't have pedophilia or homosexuality or any other sexual urge on their list, if a person finds themselves sexually attracted to non-sexually mature children, they are sick pukes who should be made aware that they need help. Essentially, in a summary, they should be made aware that they are broken. They don't work right, APA acknowledgement or not is irrelevant.

You may hate me for this but there are manny a people with a sexual interest in children who do not wish them harm. In fact I think most people who find children to be sexually attractive do not wish to see them hurt. There are of course a few who do not mind cuasing harm to children for there own pleasure.

I can just hear the NAMBLA retoric already.

I understand what you mean, but the end result of the expression of any sexual interest in a child is harmful to that child. The guy who just sits back and watches the kids, or who gets illustrated child pornography hasn't done any harm, I agree, but focusing on something that is impossible to do morally is not usually a good idea. There probably are "Harmless" Paedophiles out there who have never and would never touch a child inappropriately, no matter how much they might want to. But really, it's not those guys we're afraid of. It's the ones that convince themselves that it's alright to do it.

And if this topic goes any further, we will need to take it to a new thread.

I am aware of that. I am just saying that there were some creepy characters around, and if you were someone who was looking to pick up a kid, a toy store would be an ideal place (because that's where kids are)
So then, Smunkee, the lesson you're trying to teach me is......drop my kids off at a senior center when I have errands to run? I mean, they creeps won't be looking there, will they? ;)

And this just reminds me of one more reason that I freakin love IKEA. Aside from their rock-awesome furniture, that is.

*Loves mah couch*

I used to work at TRU and believe me it is, I used to get so mad at parents I would see them drop the kids off and leave to go to the mall that is across the street and come back to pick them up, I called the cops a few times, I mean you don't just leave your kids somewhere, we aren't there to watch them, think about it really, if you were a pedophile wouldn't you be hanging out at a toy store looking for kids that were alone that you could grab?

sorry for the rant.
Don't be. It's appalling how some parents treat their children.
The other day I walked past a cafe and saw a young kid, barely 10 years old on one of the free internet station. This was at around 7pm.
Come 11.30pm I wander back in from the pub to grab a hot chocolate before catching the ferry home and he's still there! I mentioned this to a guy waiting to use the computer and he said he works nearby and he's seen the same kid there all day nearly every day over the Xmas-NYears break.
I guess the parents couldn't be bothered arranging anything for him to do so just dumped him there all day/night until it closed.
What pissed me off most was the fact the staff were allowing it. The internet stations are meant for customers only and one would expect them to police them occassionally.

Simonist']And this just reminds me of one more reason that I freakin love IKEA. Aside from their rock-awesome furniture, that is.

*Loves mah couch*
"rock-awesome furniture"? From Ikea? Oh man, do you need to get out to some more furniture stores!
Their stuff is average (at best) quality, but over-priced for what it is. The local furniture stores round where I live sell far superior quality and style furniture at less than Ikea does.
Shop around and I'm sure you'd find it similar where you are as well.

"rock-awesome furniture"? From Ikea? Oh man, do you need to get out to some more furniture stores!
Their stuff is average (at best) quality, but over-priced for what it is. The local furniture stores round where I live sell far superior quality and style furniture at less than Ikea does.
Shop around and I'm sure you'd find it similar where you are as well.
Oh hell, I live in Kansas City. Of COURSE I could get better quality for the same price, maybe lower. But I couldn't get the same LOOKS for the same price, maybe lower. The couch I found from IKEA is exactly what I had been envisioning and had failed to find elsewhere for nearly seven months. I think that's satisfactory reason to become an IKEA fan.

Kudos to the store for its services to the less well-off. A slap across the chops for those who abuse it.

My thoughts exactly.

Well to me this shows a lot about Germany today.
When I went last year, everything was so expensive and the area we visited was very well-off. From this, it is clearthat many Germans just can't afford to live in their own country...

You may hate me for this but there are manny a people with a sexual interest in children who do not wish them harm. In fact I think most people who find children to be sexually attractive do not wish to see them hurt. There are of course a few who do not mind cuasing harm to children for there own pleasure.

I can just hear the NAMBLA retoric already.



RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!

This just shows how enormous Ikea is. Without it all Sweden would have is snow and fish.

Er, no. We would have lots more... but no fish, and there's only a little snow these days. Sweden wouldn't have any furniture, but I guess we could manage anyway. :)

And hardly anyone here in Sweden would use Ikea as a daycare, because we already have good public daycares for almost anyone. Not thanks to Mr. Kamprad and his furniture, but thanks to social democracy. Without social democracy we would have very little but snow and fish. Or slurr and a few skinny herrings....

Well to me this shows a lot about Germany today.
When I went last year, everything was so expensive and the area we visited was very well-off. From this, it is clearthat many Germans just can't afford to live in their own country...
Inflation-wise it's not that much of an issue - the problem is just that wages haven't really increased (employers love to tell people what a tough time the economy is going through at the moment), and the working poor have become pretty common.

It's a bitch. That being said, I'd also rather eat at IKEA than at some poor ass community centre.

This just shows how enormous Ikea is. Without it all Sweden would have is snow and fish.

And Absolut Vodka!
And Volvo!
And blond girls!
And sexual liberty!
And having sexual liberty with two blond girls in the backseat of a volvo while drinking Absolut vodka!

Is that 1 euro for a hotdog in a German Ikea?... I think I might have finally found something that's cheaper here in Sweden!! I can't believe we are ripping you Germans off like that... haha ;)

I don't think that many people here are using Ikea in the same way as Germans are, especially the day-care, as that's easily obtainable via the state in any case. Not sure as regards to lunch... the thought of having to go round the whole of Ikea just to get to the restaurant sounds painful.

Well to me this shows a lot about Germany today.
When I went last year, everything was so expensive and the area we visited was very well-off. From this, it is clearthat many Germans just can't afford to live in their own country...

Whoa - you're from the UK and found Germany expensive? That's a surprise.

I'd say that the daily necessities, like what you can buy in supermarkets and drugstores, are cheaper in Germany than in the UK. Not sure about living costs, but that's probably not what you mean either, having been here only for a visit. As for eating/drinking out, going to the movies etc., all that has become a LOT more expensive in the last few years, mainly with the transition to the euro. So, since that's exactly what you're gonna be doing most as a tourist, I can see how that would run up quite a tab. Especially in some cities, like Munich, that are expensive to begin with. But that would be like looking at London and saying that England is so expensive, no wonder people can't afford to live there.

The article is in a German magazine and talks exclusively about the situation in Germany. There is no mention of how IKEA's services are used in other countries. For all we can say from this article, it could be a lot worse every else on the planet.

Regarding the diapers and baby food, I highly doubt that a significant number of those get taken by "poor" people coming to IKEA solely to stock up on them. It's mostly gonna be just your normal shopper who is well off enough but still pigs out on the "freebies". I mean, IKEA's tactic against it is twisting the lids at the register, so this obviously refers to people having bought something. (For the record, I have no idea where in the store you can get the baby food. The rest rooms?)

As for the restaurants, again, I think the article does not support your conclusion.

It quotes one man (the taxi driver) who says that he can only afford IKEA when eating out with his family, but that's it. Everyone else mentioned (shoppers, vacationers) doesn't exactly go there for financial reasons. Or, rather, they do go for financial reasons (besides the more important aspect of convenience, that is) but not because they subsitute IKEA for the soup kitchen but because they like the small prices. I know lots of people (fellow students, i.e. always kinda broke, but not poor in the way a family on welfare is poor) who always eat a hot dog when shopping at IKEA. Now, they wouldn't do that if the hot dog cost four euros instead of one, but that doesn't mean they go to IKEA because it's the only way they can afford to eat out. It's just nice that it's cheap, that's all.

And while the author certainly does make a big point of this:

"From Munich in the south to Kiel in the north, Ikea is increasingly turning into a welfare center for pensioners, young moms, low-earners and the unemployed. Many low-earners prefer eating in the familiar atmosphere of this temple to consumption to standing in line at the soup kitchen. Indeed, the stigma of poverty is hidden behind the company's cheep and cheerful designs. What started out as an extra service to improve customer loyalty, has developed a life of its own, separate from the shaky wooden furniture and fold-out sofas. Many people feel that they belong when they mingle among well-off customers -- even if all they can afford is a hot dog."

and while I have don't doubt that there is some truth to this, he doesn't exactly make a very compelling argument, does he? Seems his argument rests solely on the shoulders of that poor taxi driver. Because that retired judicial officer in the first paragraph? Not very likely his pension (hello!) would force him to the IKEA feeding troughs, he's probably just cheap.
And that IKEA in "the Berlin working class area in Tempelhof" with the country's largest IKEA restaurant? Please. First of all, while technically in Tempelhof, it's much closer to Schöneberg, a solidly middle-class part of the city. Plus, it's quite a bit away from the residential areas in a small industrial zone - because where else would one of those huge IKEA boxes fit? Most importantly, the author so plainly tried to make this thing fit into his argument that he completely loses track of his logic. So the restaurant is extra large because it has to fit in all the area's poor and hungry masses, coming there just to spend €1 on a hot dog (coffee's free via the scrounged cups!) while stuffing their bags with diapers and baby food? Hmm, makes me wonder why they built it that large, then?
Sheesh.

Read this article:

The Swedish Feeding Trough (http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,392850,00.html)

This is just weird. A sign of the times perhaps...

What do you think?
We don't have any Ikea stores near to where I live, so I haven't been to one, but it sounds like a really nice idea :)