NationStates Jolt Archive

I'm writing a paper next semester in CJ-213 on home invasions-do ya'll have any theories on the motives of Home invaders (Sounds like an arcade game from the 80's, I know.) and the methods of preventing/resisting/reacting to one?

It's gotta be about 2000 words or 10 pages.

The easiest method to prevent home invasions is to lock all the doors and windows, install a security system, and keep at least one handgun in an easily accessible place...even better, on your person.

The reasons for them, I couldn't really say.

I'm writing a paper next semester in CJ-213 on home invasions-do ya'll have any theories on the motives of Home invaders (Sounds like an arcade game from the 80's, I know.) and the methods of preventing/resisting/reacting to one?

It's gotta be about 2000 words or 10 pages.

Flamethrowers, they usually do the job.

The easiest method to prevent home invasions is to lock all the doors and windows, install a security system, and keep at least one handgun in an easily accessible place...even better, on your person.

The reasons for them, I couldn't really say.

Dug this up a minute ago.

_________________________
Home Invasion - A Case Study to help you prepare:

As some here may already know my Brother and his family were the victims of a home invasion two weeks ago. I am going to give a brief overview of the situation and how this happened as sharing this story may allow those that read the story to better prepare themselves if you should be the next target.

Background:

This is an average Middle Class family and they may actually be in the lower middle class. They drive average and modest used cars and they do not own a great deal that would make them a target. Their house is a simple duplex and quite arguably the worst looking house on the block. If this family was attacked, any of us are likely to get attacked!

The Day and Night Before:

The neighbors indicated that they had seen a strange car driving around the neighborhood. One of the neighbors stopped the car and asked what they wanted and the people in the car were looking for someone by the name of "James" that they thought lived in the area. The neighbors indicated no James was there and the car left. As a side note, the neighborers had good descriptions of the people and car but a license plate number and a call to th police would have been a good idea.

The Setting:

It was a Sunday night and the 12-year old child slept on the couch and the Mother and Step father went to their room and went to bed. The doors were locked as were most of the windows. They also have a big dog in the form of a Husky - German Sheppard mix but the dog likes to sleep in the basement where it is cooler. The outside of the house was dark as like many of us they turn off the lights outside before going to bed.

The Attack:

At about 3AM two men entered the house from a kitchen window. The kitchen window had been unlocked but the window is an honest 7-feet off the ground so it had never been considered a likely threat. The individual that climbed through the window and opened the door from the inside to allow his partner in.

Once in the house they seemed to know the dog was in the basement as the closed and blocked the basement door with a chair. Next the found the 12-year old on the couch and took him outside with out waking the adults or getting the dog to bark and put him into the trunk of a waiting car where a third individual was as a driver.

The two males then proceeded up the stairs in the house and awoke the two adults in the bedroom with a gun to their faces. The two attackers separated the adults by the individual with the gun escorting out the step father at gun point. When outside, the gunman instructed the step father that he was to get into the trunk of the car as they walked towards the car. When the trunk was popped open the step father saw the stepson and jumped the gunman. A fight occurred and the gunman gained control of the pistol. The stepfather gained distance between the gunman and went to other houses to get police or help. The gunman pursued and after six shots were fired the step father was hit.

With the gunshots, the second male left the house leaving the mother alone. The mother tried to call 911 but all phone cords and phone lines had been cut. She tried to find the son and a cell phone but both of these had been taken. While she was searching for a phone the gunman who had shot the step father returned and demanded that she come or she will be killed as well as their son. She was forced at gunpoint into her own minivan and the two cars left.

The end results:

The above is pretty much out in the media but from there there is much that has not been shared. The Step father in this story was in the hospital for one day from a 22LR gunshot to the right abdomen. No organ damage occurred. The mother was either thrown from their minivan or jumped (this is still unclear 2-weeks later), and the son was released unharmed at a Wal-Mart about 1.5-hrs from where they live.

Lessons Learned:

If a person wants in your home any open window or unlocked door is a potential threat.

A dog, if they sleep in a location where they can not see what is going on may assume that nothing unusual is happening when an attacker or attackers is in your house.

A security system is an exceptional way to get advance warning that someone is in your house but only if you have one, it protects all doors and windows, and you turn it on.

A house phone is not a sure way to get help as they are easily and quickly made inoperable. Cell phones if left out of reach will be picked up or destroyed by a home invader if they find them. Cell phones are best left charging next to you in your bedroom at night!

Having all of your guns secured in a safe or place away from your bedroom will make it impossible for you to grab a weapon in the few seconds you may have before the attacker is upon you.

All family members (Adults) need to be trained and experienced with firearms and know that if something happens where they can find the weapon and how to use it.

Kids need to be taught to yell if they are in trouble so their parents can help them (Tough to say without knowing more about what happened with him as I have not pressed that line of discussion nor do I think it is wise to do so at this time).

Your job can make you a target... Following is a coment from someone else that saw this info:



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Posted by ComputerUser:
See: www.packing.org/community/home_defense/listview/3609/

Get into the mind of a criminal and ask yourself what about your lifestyle, your property, or your job, might be seen as advantageous or beneficial to them. Here, the family could have been targeted as a way to get the bank key and ID. What about municipal employees who have passcards to get into courthouses without going thru security? Or pharmacists, gun store employees, lawyers, etc? All of these folks, and more, are higher-than-average-value targets, yet few view themselves as such. Maybe it is time that they did.
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Conclusions:

In summary, there were so many things that went wrong in this situation that it makes my head hurt. The son was exposed, the dog didn't react, the family got zero advanced notice, the phones were quickly made unusable, the weapons were secured out of reach. When the wife had a chance to fight back she couldn't get help and she couldn't get a gun because she was not trained to do so. Had she got a gun the world would have been short one criminal but instead she is still in the hospital undergoing surgery to help fix some of the injuries that occurred over two weeks ago.

More from the Media

If you want more information here is a link to what the media has: www.quarterbore.net/forums/showthread.php?t=571
______________________

Flamethrowers, they usually do the job.Not really a good idea, you can easily burn your house down.

BTW, I say taser gun. Really, why can't the gov't legalize these weapons to be sold in public, they're not lethal.

I'm writing a paper next semester in CJ-213 on home invasions-do ya'll have any theories on the motives of Home invaders (Sounds like an arcade game from the 80's, I know.) and the methods of preventing/resisting/reacting to one?

It's gotta be about 2000 words or 10 pages.
What we typically read about in Atlanta are stories of home invasions where the occupants were known to keep large quantities of cash on hand. The stories are usually about home invasions in Hispanic areas of town, because using banks is not a cultural norm for a lot of recent immigrants. Do a Lexus--Nexus search through the college library for better information.

Not really a good idea, you can easily burn your house down.

BTW, I say taser gun. Really, why can't the gov't legalize these weapons to be sold in public, they're not lethal.

Tasers are too cumbersome and unwieldy. I'm waiting until they come out with ones that don't use wires, but by that time they won't be less-than-lethal they'll be toting phasers.

I would say Bouncing Bettys so Kitsch but so adorable.

Reactions ..
Blow the Fuckers away!

I'm writing a paper next semester in CJ-213 on home invasions-do ya'll have any theories on the motives of Home invaders (Sounds like an arcade game from the 80's, I know.) and the methods of preventing/resisting/reacting to one?
You can secure your windows from entry using this stuff called security laminate (http://www.acesecuritylaminates.com/products.htm) - instead of causing the glass to shatter it forms this impenetrable shell (or at least impenetrable from conventional attacks)

Tasers are too cumbersome and unwieldy. I'm waiting until they come out with ones that don't use wires, but by that time they won't be less-than-lethal they'll be toting phasers.
Set tasers to kill! :D

The easiest method to prevent home invasions is to lock all the doors and windows, install a security system, and keep at least one handgun in an easily accessible place...even better, on your person.

The reasons for them, I couldn't really say.
Yes I agree.

Dunno why they happen but a good security system and locks on doors will save you most times (Why anyone thinks a window 7' up is safe I don't know, two people with half a brain between them can go through that).
If soneone's still going after setting the alarm off and breaking a window there's not much you can do about it really except hope you get the jump on them (if they think you'll have a gun, they'll have one too and if they're still going they'll like as not shoot)

Hang motion sensitive (battery powered) lights at places people might enter your home. It's very annoying when you're being sneaky and suddenly a light pops on.

Hang motion sensitive (battery powered) lights at places people might enter your home. It's very annoying when you're being sneaky and suddenly a light pops on.

Makes it a bugger to slip into the girls dorms though... Burglar alarms miss that.

I agree that motion sensors could act as a deterrent, but if they're a bit too enthusiastic for that to stop them the ideal tool would be a handgun with frangible ammuntion.

I have a Yugo SKS in my bedroom, but it would easily go through the walls of my apartment building and cause damage/injury in other apartments. I'd probably prefer to use it to club them, but circumstances would dictate my reaction. Also, I'm a very very light sleeper (a tour in Ramadi, Iraq will do that to ya) and I wake up when people walk past my front door in the middle of the night (I have a rather small apartment).

A Yugo SKS for those who wouldn't know

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/d4/Sks_2.jpg

The obvious way to ensure you are never the victim of house invasion is to burn down your house and live on the street.

Heads on pikes.
If that doesn't deter interlopers, I don't know what will.

I agree that motion sensors could act as a deterrent, but if they're a bit too enthusiastic for that to stop them the ideal tool would be a handgun with frangible ammuntion.

I have a Yugo SKS in my bedroom, but it would easily go through the walls of my apartment building and cause damage/injury in other apartments. I'd probably prefer to use it to club them, but circumstances would dictate my reaction. Also, I'm a very very light sleeper (a tour in Ramadi, Iraq will do that to ya) and I wake up when people walk past my front door in the middle of the night (I have a rather small apartment).

A Yugo SKS for those who wouldn't know

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/d4/Sks_2.jpg

I have a Chinese SKS. Works great, 100% with any kind of ammo I feed it. If I run out of ammo I have a bayonet on the end, and if that breaks It functions as a good club :D .

I didn't get a Yugo SKS because they don't have chromed barrels, which to me is a pain to get clean. One spray of solvent and a quick wipe and the barrel is clean.

Heads on pikes.
If that doesn't deter interlopers, I don't know what will.


Bwahahahaha! :D

Home defense, dark ages style :D

The obvious way to ensure you are never the victim of house invasion is to burn down your house and live on the street.
Then you get scumbags setting you on fire while you sleep!

Build your home in the middle of a massive maze armed with vicious creatures and clever booby-traps.

Barring that, live on a space station. :D

The Cthulu-esque beasts that dwell in the various corners of my house keep me safe.

Lock doors, get security system. Guns don't prevent anything, they just make you feel more confident, which is usually a mistake anyways.

Importantly, once they are inside, it's probably best to comply with most things they want (unless it gets outrageous, then you just have to weigh up your life against your dignity) - posessions and such things are not more important than your, or anyone else's, life.

But then, home invasions don't seem that common where I live, so I'm hardly an expert.

But then, home invasions don't seem that common where I live, so I'm hardly an expert.

Home invasions, while the person is home, isn't all that common anyway. It has nothing to do with gun ownership. Most people, even criminals, don't really want to deal with conflict.

They sure as hell don't want to have to wrestle some naked dude's gun away from him.

Anyway, we should do a poll ... how many people on these forums have had their house broken into while they were home. The answer may surprise many. Often gun owners and enthusiasts would have us believe that if they didn't have their gun, their house would be burgled every hour on the hour.

I agree that motion sensors could act as a deterrent, but if they're a bit too enthusiastic for that to stop them the ideal tool would be a handgun with frangible ammuntion.

I have a Yugo SKS in my bedroom, but it would easily go through the walls of my apartment building and cause damage/injury in other apartments. I'd probably prefer to use it to club them, but circumstances would dictate my reaction. Also, I'm a very very light sleeper (a tour in Ramadi, Iraq will do that to ya) and I wake up when people walk past my front door in the middle of the night (I have a rather small apartment).

A Yugo SKS for those who wouldn't know

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/d4/Sks_2.jpg

I keep a Taurus Pt-111 I keep for CCW next to my bed as well as a Kabar knife underneath the bed in arms reach. I have used my M44 once when I thought someone had broken down the door. (We still do not know what had caused that crash.) I try and keep to the 9mm sence I do not want to put a round through the wall. A friend had saved thier belongings and possibly thier with a Yugo, some thieves were going door to door posing as a Cable man. She let him in and he just wandered around for a moment before going to the TV. Suspitious, she grabbed the SKS behind the door, pointed at the man and told him to get out. It was on the local news a few nights later of people whos homes had been broken into after these "cable men" came to fix the cable connection.

Saying a gun prevents you from home invations is like saying a mouse trap keeps mice from entering. It only keeps them from exitt:sniper: ing.

Lock doors, get security system. Guns don't prevent anything, they just make you feel more confident, which is usually a mistake anyways.

Importantly, once they are inside, it's probably best to comply with most things they want (unless it gets outrageous, then you just have to weigh up your life against your dignity) - posessions and such things are not more important than your, or anyone else's, life.

But then, home invasions don't seem that common where I live, so I'm hardly an expert.

"Put your hands behind your head-all of you"

"BAM"

"BAM"

"BAM"

"Now we can search the house without worrying about the time"

Yes, it has happened.

I keep my doors and windows locked. If that fails my double barreled 12 gage shotgun will give them a warm welcome. The first barrel I fire has bird shot the second has a deer slug if they insist on not leaving. If this fails I have a cutlass hanging by the bed, very sharp and very heavy. last but not least I have the "hello Hammer" under the bed.

I keep a Taurus Pt-111 I keep for CCW next to my bed as well as a Kabar knife underneath the bed in arms reach. I have used my M44 once when I thought someone had broken down the door. (We still do not know what had caused that crash.) I try and keep to the 9mm sence I do not want to put a round through the wall. A friend had saved thier belongings and possibly thier with a Yugo, some thieves were going door to door posing as a Cable man. She let him in and he just wandered around for a moment before going to the TV. Suspitious, she grabbed the SKS behind the door, pointed at the man and told him to get out. It was on the local news a few nights later of people whos homes had been broken into after these "cable men" came to fix the cable connection.

An m44 is a Mosin-nagant correct? OVERKILL!

Dude, you're supposed to let them take what they want. If your friend had shot him he would have just gotten up and hurt her, but if she would have called the police and laid on the ground, she would have been FINE. Remember, in the presence of evil, ACT LIKE SHEEP! :rolleyes:

An m44 is a Mosin-nagant correct? OVERKILL!

Dude, you're supposed to let them take what they want. If your friend had shot him he would have just gotten up and hurt her, but if she would have called the police and laid on the ground, she would have been FINE. Remember, in the presence of evil, ACT LIKE SHEEP! :rolleyes:

I know, it was the one night I didn't have the PT at bedside. Two 7.62 x 54r rounds were sitting on my desk and the M44 was sitting next to my desk. It was the first things I could get to, within 4 seconds it was ready to go. I will never make that mistake again.

Haha, I will tell her that. I doubt she would agree. :D

Put a sticker on all windows saying "WARNING: GUN RACK IS MISSING A GUN."

Set a laser pointer on an automatic motion tracker. If anybody gets near your house, he sees the little dot of light on his chest...

:D

Put a sticker on all windows saying "WARNING: GUN RACK IS MISSING A GUN."

Excellent.

Set a laser pointer on an automatic motion tracker. If anybody gets near your house, he sees the little dot of light on his chest...

:D

That isn't a bad idea!

Here's an idea...get the best anti-intruder weapon mankind has thought of so far: A big f*cking guard dog.
If properly trained, they're not as easy to get around as you think. A Mastino will take a number of bullets and still fight, and they aren't slouches inside a house - and if you shoot a guy, they usually shoot back, if a Mastino is at your throat, you're not doing much at all.

http://www.pedigree.com.sg/breeds/images/bullmastiff.jpg

Hang motion sensitive (battery powered) lights at places people might enter your home. It's very annoying when you're being sneaky and suddenly a light pops on.

I gotta say, as a Canadian socialist, that sounds like a much nicer option than a private arsenal. Most people would get scared off by it, or by the usual alarm system. Violence works, sure, but why make it the first line of defence?

Anyways, I can't see the motivation behind a home invasion, except as burglers screwing up. ("What? They're home? Crap!") You'd think people would have the brains to find an empty house if they're going to rob it.

I gotta say, as a Canadian socialist, that sounds like a much nicer option than a private arsenal. Most people would get scared off by it, or by the usual alarm system. Violence works, sure, but why make it the first line of defence?

Anyways, I can't see the motivation behind a home invasion, except as burglers screwing up. ("What? They're home? Crap!") You'd think people would have the brains to find an empty house if they're going to rob it.

A gun being cycled should be adequate warning to get the hell out. The downside is, these people who are willing to break the law and enter ones home are unpredictable. While your flashlight idea would work on some, others are much more agressive. I wouldn't even want to take a chance on that. For the record I hope I never have to take that kind of action.

Anyway, we should do a poll ... how many people on these forums have had their house broken into while they were home. The answer may surprise many. Often gun owners and enthusiasts would have us believe that if they didn't have their gun, their house would be burgled every hour on the hour.
I have yet to see anyone say something to this effect. Rather, guns allow your house to act like a roach motel, the criminals check in, but they don't check out.

Saying a gun prevents you from home invations is like saying a mouse trap keeps mice from entering. It only keeps them from exiting.

As my grandfather always said: The early bird may get the worm, but it's the second mouse that gets the cheese.

I'm writing a paper next semester in CJ-213 on home invasions-do ya'll have any theories on the motives of Home invaders (Sounds like an arcade game from the 80's, I know.) and the methods of preventing/resisting/reacting to one?

It's gotta be about 2000 words or 10 pages.

Motives: Getting money/valuable quickly

Methods of prevention:

invest in good doors and good locks and use them. Many home invasions are simply because people leave the damned doors and windows open.

Alarms

BIG scary barking dog

good lighting around your home, and trim back trees and bushes that block line-of-sight from street.

Resistance: If they are armed and you were caught unaware, resistance is stupid.

Reaction: ATTRACT ATTENTION. Scream. Call 911. Throw a rock through your neighbor's window -- he'll call the cops on you! ;)

I'm writing a paper next semester in CJ-213 on home invasions-do ya'll have any theories on the motives of Home invaders (Sounds like an arcade game from the 80's, I know.) and the methods of preventing/resisting/reacting to one?

It's gotta be about 2000 words or 10 pages.
Methods of resisting one? BFG!

If a burglar has put a lot of time and effort into invading your home, is well prepared and well trained, then there isn't much you can do about it. Locks can be picked, windows can be silently broken, ect. A dog is probably the best defense if he is territorial, or at least just loud. Even if the dog can't stop the criminals, he will wake you up. Then have a gun ready. If you have children and are afraid of them firing your gun, teach them about it, take them out on the range, and basically expose them to it until the fasination goes away (worked with me) make a very good point of teaching them that a gun is a mundane object, but is also dangerous, and they won't go to the trouble of swiping it to play with it. Keep your bedroom door locked, so they have to break through it. If the criminal knows how to make an approach wielding a gun, then you will have a hard time getting the drop on them, but it's really your only hope.

A gun being cycled should be adequate warning to get the hell out. The downside is, these people who are willing to break the law and enter ones home are unpredictable. While your flashlight idea would work on some, others are much more agressive. I wouldn't even want to take a chance on that. For the record I hope I never have to take that kind of action.

Thing is, if you pull a gun on them, what's their logical response? You've made the situation more unstable. They see the threat, pull out their own weapon, and now both of you have a decent chance of getting killed.

I don't know if I buy into your idea of unpredictability. The motive for property crime is financial gain, and I doubt that a thief would be that reckless with their own life. If somebody wanted violence for it's own sake, why break into a house? Why not go after somebody out walking at night?

It seems that the best way is just to make sure that the locks on your windows and doors are actual locks and not cheap crap that can be broken easily. A solid door would be helpful also so that it is harder to simply force your way in.

Thing is, if you pull a gun on them, what's their logical response? You've made the situation more unstable. They see the threat, pull out their own weapon, and now both of you have a decent chance of getting killed.


That's worked for me three times, and in each case, they froze. I didn't have to shoot anyone, and they encounter stopped right there.

If it occurred at my home, the first indication that they would have that I was armed would be the sound of the AR-15 going off, and the muzzle flashes.

Go ahead and try to draw then - you aren't going to make it.

I have to deal with threats made by domestic abusers all the time - we've had some steel frame doors installed internally, we have a safe room (with guns, ammunition, and cell phones), and we have a rehearsed plan.

Most of the adults are wearing a pistol around the house. And the front door has a special pin in the floor that must be manually removed before the door can be opened all the way - much more resistant to forcing than any chain.

Our drill for retreat to the safe room is a center peel - we leapfrog back to the bedroom, each person taking a few seconds to completely empty their weapon down the corridor. Anyone dumb enough to try to enter that hallway while we're moving back is going to get a lead shampoo.

Then you get scumbags setting you on fire while you sleep!

But no home invasion

But no home invasion
I bet if I moved to Ireland and bought one of those old castles with a moat, I wouldn't have to worry about a home invasion of any sort.

That's worked for me three times, and in each case, they froze. I didn't have to shoot anyone, and they encounter stopped right there.


Jesus Christ, that's horrible. Where do you live, that you've had to pull a gun 3 times?

I bet if I moved to Ireland and bought one of those old castles with a moat, I wouldn't have to worry about a home invasion of any sort.

Ya, cos we have castles all over Ireland. Ones you can just buy and live in.
:rolleyes:

Jesus Christ, that's horrible. Where do you live, that you've had to pull a gun 3 times?
Herndon, Virginia.

Tell you what, go into your area and make yourself the enemy of every wifebeater within 50 miles, and tell me how well you sleep.

Ya, cos we have castles all over Ireland. Ones you can just buy and live in.
:rolleyes:
I know you can't buy them, but your Tourism Board keeps showing me those fine castles as though I could buy one.

Step 1 - Convert your home into an underground bunker.
Step 2 - Fake own death.
Step 3 - Become King of all subterranean creatures.

These three easy steps ensures both safety from home invasion and a handsome crown fashioned by the capable hands of the mole-men.

Ya, cos we have castles all over Ireland. Ones you can just buy and live in.
:rolleyes:

Farmers are usually only too happy for someone to take listed building off their hands. It's happened twice in my old home county.

I know you can't buy them, but your Tourism Board keeps showing me those fine castles as though I could buy one.

Our castles are either museums or rubble.

Although I dont see why you couldnt build a moat around your own house. And put a portcullis in front of all your doors.

Automatic lights are good. Eliminate hiding areas around doors and windows-dont leave large bushes that can obscure the area benath a window unless its thorny and hostile.
A dog is great-you only need one tha tcan hear and bark. If you're not a dog person, a huge brute isnt going to help you much.
Dont advertise your stuff. Dont throw fancy electronic's boxes out in the trash at the curb for everyone to see.
Be aware of who comes and goes at your dwelling and your neighbor's too. If you feel like your house or your neighbor's is being "cased", take the description of the person or the year make and model/plate # of vehicle.

Dont keep a weapon unless your a weapon oriented person. People unfamiliar with them wind up truning them over to the bad guys all the time. If you have one-use it properly-dont brandish it. Thats your ace in the hole. When its time to use that, your other preparations have already failed.
Doors and windows with functioning locks-and use them. The average persons front door-I could hip check open without much catching attention. Get a deadbolt and use it. Secure the strike plate and hinges with three inch screws.

If you can make it in and out of my house when I'm not home- fine- you're good and I have insurance. You wont find the irreplaceable stuff anyway.
If I'm home-I have a lot to lose and you're nuts and you probably wont make it. Unless you're retired spetnatz or something.

"The Safety Paradox: Injuries and Deaths Related to Firearm Use
Although most people obtain handguns for home or personal protection, the actual use of a handgun for this purpose appears to be uncommon. In fact, wielding a gun in a home invasion crime can be more harmful than beneficial. In one study of 197 such crimes in Atlanta, a gun was successfully used to repel an intruder in only three cases (1.5%); whereas, in six cases (3.0%), the intruder actually reached the homeowner's gun first or seized it during a scuffle with the victim.17

17. Kellerman AL, Westphal L, Fischer L, Harvard B. Weapon involvement in home invasion crimes. JAMA 1995; 273:1759-1762." http://www.amsa.org/programs/gpit/gunviolence.cfm

Does anyone have any articles that show different? I'd be interested.
(I'm not trying to be a smart ass.)

For those living in a rural area, besides dogs, geese and caller ducks are fantastic alarm systems.

Other passive measures would be landscaping thorny plants underneath vulnerable windows and foot level door blockers you can slide under at night.

"The Safety Paradox: Injuries and Deaths Related to Firearm Use
Although most people obtain handguns for home or personal protection, the actual use of a handgun for this purpose appears to be uncommon. In fact, wielding a gun in a home invasion crime can be more harmful than beneficial. In one study of 197 such crimes in Atlanta, a gun was successfully used to repel an intruder in only three cases (1.5%); whereas, in six cases (3.0%), the intruder actually reached the homeowner's gun first or seized it during a scuffle with the victim.17

17. Kellerman AL, Westphal L, Fischer L, Harvard B. Weapon involvement in home invasion crimes. JAMA 1995; 273:1759-1762." http://www.amsa.org/programs/gpit/gunviolence.cfm

Does anyone have any articles that show different? I'd be interested.
(I'm not trying to be a smart ass.)


Most Kellerman studies have been widely discredited.

http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcdgaga.html
http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcdguse.html

Most Kellerman studies have been widely discredited.

http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcdgaga.html
http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcdguse.html
Cool, thanks. I'll look it over.

Cool, thanks. I'll look it over.

Not a problem. For future reference, the source you used is highly biased towards gun control:

In the last election, the National Rifle Association (NRA) donated $1.8 million to political races to support unrestricted and unregulated access to all firearms. This was nine times as much as the highest-spending gun control lobby, Handgun Control.31

They do have some good ideas, (going after criminals) but it has a definite leaning.

Thing is, if you pull a gun on them, what's their logical response? You've made the situation more unstable. They see the threat, pull out their own weapon, and now both of you have a decent chance of getting killed.

I don't know if I buy into your idea of unpredictability. The motive for property crime is financial gain, and I doubt that a thief would be that reckless with their own life. If somebody wanted violence for it's own sake, why break into a house? Why not go after somebody out walking at night?

When I any weapon drawn, the decision to use it has already been made. If I catch you in the beam of my surefire and tell you to freeze, and you don't, you are dead. No questions asked.

Herndon, Virginia.

Tell you what, go into your area and make yourself the enemy of every wifebeater within 50 miles, and tell me how well you sleep.

Been there. If one attacks you in public with 2 friends and 2 of the three end up in the hospital, and then in jail, they leave you alone after that.

One other reason that I'm a big fan of parking lot cameras.

Have a dog and an alarm prominently displayed. This will cut your chance of being burgled by over ninety five per cent. Criminals go for an easy score.

If you have a weapon make sure that it's secure, operational and near where you sleep. Be trained in it's use.

Don't do stupid shit like leaving the doors and windows unlocked. Shred all documents. Don't open the door to strangers. Verify that delivery, gas and water men are who they say they are. If they're the real deal then they won't mind giving you thier information.

I have yet to see anyone say something to this effect. Rather, guns allow your house to act like a roach motel, the criminals check in, but they don't check out.

Not really. It's the second mouse that gets the cheese, remember?

Criminals watch the news, too. "Man shoots intruder" headlines come out, folks read the story, one particular folk finds out you shot his cousin with your 9mm and he comes at you with 5 friends with shotguns.

Violence begets violence every time.

Not really. It's the second mouse that gets the cheese, remember?

Criminals watch the news, too. "Man shoots intruder" headlines come out, folks read the story, one particular folk finds out you shot his cousin with your 9mm and he comes at you with 5 friends with shotguns.

Violence begets violence every time.
Nicely postulated. Have you ever read of an instance of this happening? I think this kind of revenge is mostly found in movies -- old cowboy movies.

A gun, shot at a guy will usually hurt, but for most handguns not immediately kill.
Unless you are a very good shot, but then you'd have to assume that so is the other guy. Gun Battle at Midnight, but no guarantees, other than that you will get shot at.

A big, well-trained dog is not easy to shoot. It will charge at you, quickly. It will weigh 50kg or more, so it'll take you off your feet. Shooting it will make it even angrier, and once it gets to you, it'll incapacitate you immediately. It can see in the dark.

A large well-trained security dog is a better weapon inside a house against a home invasion than a handgun.

A big, well-trained dog is not easy to shoot.

Very true ... and when's the last time you saw a dog whimper and wet himself when a gun's pointed at him?

Nicely postulated. Have you ever read of an instance of this happening? I think this kind of revenge is mostly found in movies -- old cowboy movies.

Every act of violence, even a man shooting someone for taking his TV, is an act of revenge.

A large well-trained security dog is a better weapon inside a house against a home invasion than a handgun.

Having both is even better.

Nicely postulated. Have you ever read of an instance of this happening? I think this kind of revenge is mostly found in movies -- old cowboy movies.

It is something that could easily happen though, especially if the criminal is attached to a gang.

Do the classic New York:

Baseball bat near the bed
4-Cell D MagLite easily accessible (they hurt)
Golf Clubs work well
Kitchen Knives
Handguns also work but not too much power or you'll hurt the kids in the other room

Lock your damn doors & windows!

Having both is even better.
My question is what you hope to achieve with a gun? The other guy will have a gun too, pointing yours at him will just result in having his pointed at you.

Add to that the risk of an accident happening, the fact that if it is a proper home invasion, they'd be inside before you even wake up - and they'd be looking for you first, and I just don't see how a gun can even be so much as a complementary item for home security.

My question is what you hope to achieve with a gun? The other guy will have a gun too, pointing yours at him will just result in having his pointed at you.

Add to that the risk of an accident happening, the fact that if it is a proper home invasion, they'd be inside before you even wake up - and they'd be looking for you first, and I just don't see how a gun can even be so much as a complementary item for home security.
I think you are giving the predator too much credit for bravery and persistence, while giving the prey too little. The vast majority of articles that I read where a home or business owner used a gun to defend himself ended up with the predator dead or wounded and the owner very much alive.

For myself, I choose the little noisy dogs in the kitchen and the .45 in the nightstand.

It is something that could easily happen though, especially if the criminal is attached to a gang.
But when was the last incident that you have read about? I just don't recall any. I don't doubt it _could_ happen, but it doesn't seem to happen to everyone that kills a predator. Even the wounded ones don't seem to come back for revenge. Something to keep in mind is that these may be 'tough' guys, but they aren't necessarily brave.

My question is what you hope to achieve with a gun? The other guy will have a gun too, pointing yours at him will just result in having his pointed at you.

Last resort. I won't kill someone for robbing a television, but if someone breaks down my bedroom door, they're getting a weapon through the head.

But when was the last incident that you have read about? I just don't recall any.

Neither do I, but if gangs kill each other for revenge, there's no doubt that they'll go after a civillian.

I got a sabre, 10" knife and bukudo within arm's length of my bed, I sleep very lightly. If my door ever comes flying open in the middle of the night, odds are I'm already behind the sucker who kicked it open.

Not really. It's the second mouse that gets the cheese, remember?

Criminals watch the news, too. "Man shoots intruder" headlines come out, folks read the story, one particular folk finds out you shot his cousin with your 9mm and he comes at you with 5 friends with shotguns.

Violence begets violence every time.

It's never worked that way with me.

A gun, shot at a guy will usually hurt, but for most handguns not immediately kill.
Unless you are a very good shot, but then you'd have to assume that so is the other guy. Gun Battle at Midnight, but no guarantees, other than that you will get shot at.

A big, well-trained dog is not easy to shoot. It will charge at you, quickly. It will weigh 50kg or more, so it'll take you off your feet. Shooting it will make it even angrier, and once it gets to you, it'll incapacitate you immediately. It can see in the dark.

A large well-trained security dog is a better weapon inside a house against a home invasion than a handgun.

Nope. It's never worked that way for me.

If I'm in a dark house, and not moving, and I have my AR-15, the man who is moving through the house is the one who is going to die.

Killed dogs before - it's very, very easy to kill a trained attack dog if you have anything 9mm on up. Only takes a single shot.

Killed dogs before - it's very, very easy to kill a trained attack dog if you have anything 9mm on up. Only takes a single shot.
Assuming your invader is a well-trained, paramilitary commando.

Assuming your invader is a well-trained, paramilitary commando.
When I was a teenager (16), I was in a car lot at night with some friends.

They had a mix of rottweilers, German shepherds, and pit bulls in the yard.

I killed two dogs with an aluminum baseball bat - the dogs did try very hard, but they couldn't take more than a single stroke without dying.

There is a substantial advantage to a firearm:

1. The mere display of a firearm is usually enough to deter most criminals - according to the Justice Department, most criminals (especially burglars) are unarmed.

2. If it comes to using lethal force, the gun is far, far more likely to kill (which is why I use rifles as my first choice for home defense). With the felon dead in your house, there's only one story that the police are going to hear - yours. The felon's story will never be told, and there won't be anyone to rebut or distort your account.

Which is why I teach the following to my students:

If you shoot, shoot until the threat is stopped. This means that you keep firing as the target falls to the ground.