NationStates Jolt Archive

First, people were dieing because it was too hot; now, they are dieing because it is too cold.

What the hell is going on? Does no one have central heating or air conditioners? Fans or space heaters? What is up with all this crazy weather and subsequent crazy effects.

Uhm... you have heard of poor and homeless people, right? Of the sick and the needy? The old and the tired? The sad and the lonely? ...And such? :p

Italians, Frenchmen, Spaniards, they're all idiots when it comes to the heating. They always die en masse in summer because it's so warm and during the winter because of the opposite. It's just nature's way make sure South and Middle Europe don't get too overpopulated.

We have never idiotic problems like that here in Scandinavia, even as we have colder winters and many times equally hot summers.

Uhm... you have heard of poor and homeless people, right? Of the sick and the needy? The old and the tired? The sad and the lonely? ...And such? :p
Not everyone that has died was homeless, old, or sick.

I also hear in Australia it was rather ..hot.. and people were on the beaches. Should've let those asshats drown.

Not everyone that has died was homeless, old, or sick.

Well... maybe the others didn't have central heating or air conditioners, nor fans or space heaters...

Well... maybe the others didn't have central heating or air conditioners, nor fans or space heaters...
Yeah, well stupid people lose.

Sorry I haven't heard of people dying en masse? Got a linked story?

no need for air con usually - at least, here in britain.

and it is unusually cold atm (kinda), and we don't really take cold weather seriously.

but yay for climate change :headbang:

Yeah, well stupid people lose.
There ya go! Problem solved :D

Uhm... you have heard of poor and homeless people, right? Of the sick and the needy? The old and the tired? The sad and the lonely? ...And such? :p

That seems like it.

Does no one have central heating or air conditioners?
Air conditioning? Isn't that that strange thing Americans have to use up oil in yet another way?

Fans or space heaters?
What the hell is a 'space heater'? Some sort of NASA invention?

General it's poor elderly people that die in cold weather - they can't afford to run the central heating so wrap up in blankets and then freeze to death in their beds. So much for the Welfare State.

Don't know about the rest of Europe, but in the U.K. it's because we don't actually have what you call a climate, we just get everyone else's spare random weather. So every year, EVERY single year, someone says that this is going to be/has been the wettest/coldest/hottest/dryest/windyest year since forever. And every year we're all surprised when the weather doesn't do what's expected of it. And noone is ever prepared for it when it does, because everyone forgets that we're only a small island with a lot of coastline, and without the Gulf Stream and those jet stream doodads we'd have the same weather as Alaska or Greenland

What the hell is a 'space heater'? Some sort of NASA invention?.

http://www.bedbathandbeyond.com/assets/product_images/230/43765001776.jpg

It's a small heater (with or without a fan) that can be moved around and is plugged in to an outlet to heat a small area, usually a room or part of a room.

They can be much cheaper than central heating.

This kind of thing happens in the US all the time. Did you think it didn't in Europe, or that it was exclusive to Europe? I'm confused as to which error you've made.

http://www.bedbathandbeyond.com/assets/product_images/230/43765001776.jpg

It's a small heater (with or without a fan) that can be moved around and is plugged in to an outlet to heat a small area, usually a room or part of a room.

They can be much cheaper than central heating.
That's one of those new fancy ones. The old ones were just propane tanks with metal bars around them that got really hot.

Of course, things are only going to get worse now that Russia's natural gas has been cut off, and most countries are seeing major drops in inventories.

http://www.bedbathandbeyond.com/assets/product_images/230/43765001776.jpg

It's a small heater (with or without a fan) that can be moved around and is plugged in to an outlet to heat a small area, usually a room or part of a room.

They can be much cheaper than central heating.

When I worked for the Council (Coventry to be exact, at a depot where the binmen (garbagemen) and their trucks were based - i was a finance clerk, not a binman before anyone asks), our boilers packed up so we ended up having to bring those things in.

Imagine 8 of those, the noise of a printer, and also usual computer noises with banter in one small room. Hell. Came in handy as a fan though in the summer when it got stupidly hot.

Of course, things are only going to get worse now that Russia's natural gas has been cut off, and most countries are seeing major drops in inventories.
Just Ukraine. Russia cut off Ukraine's gas.

Just Ukraine. Russia cut off Ukraine's gas.

No, it's hitting Germany and Italy as well:

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10001099&sid=aSjEbSfKd5Ck&refer=energy

They've got 15 days of cover though, so it likely won't translate in to any shortages. I'm more concerned about attempts to price-gouge.

http://money.cnn.com/2006/01/02/news/international/gas_prices_germany/

Germany's got 75 days of cover. However, it shows just how vulnerable Western Europe is in terms of its gas supply. They really need to get away from Russia's grasp on ths stuff, since they obviously have no qualms about cutting it off. It's only a matter of time before they start using it as a "weapon".

Moldova's President says they've been cut as well for refusing to pay extra.

Italians, Frenchmen, Spaniards, they're all idiots when it comes to the heating. They always die en masse in summer because it's so warm and during the winter because of the opposite. It's just nature's way make sure South and Middle Europe don't get too overpopulated.

We have never idiotic problems like that here in Scandinavia, even as we have colder winters and many times equally hot summers.

Ever had nights with 30 celcius at midnight? No? Then shut up.

Ever had nights with 30 celcius at midnight? No? Then shut up.

Just judging from the fact that the person you're replying to is from Scandanavia, I'd say they probably have.

Just judging from the fact that the person you're replying to is from Scandanavia, I'd say they probably have.

I'm from Scandinavia, and I'd really be surprised if there have been 30 celsius anywhere here at midnight in the summer. Then again, I live too far north in Scandinavia to raise an eyebrow if the sun is still up at midnight in the summer.

This kind of thing happens in the US all the time.

i actually did the math on it back during that heatwave that was killing old people in france. turns out that chicago had a higher heat-related mortality rate during it's last major heatwave. and that's in a place where severe heat waves are more common and people are typically more prepared for them.

Just judging from the fact that the person you're replying to is from Scandanavia, I'd say they probably have.

I'd say unlikely.

Sorry if I sounded overly agressive, but heat kills people too, and I don't like seeing this subject treated lightly. I asure you, when it gets hot, it gets REALLY hot, and people that are weaker simply.. collapse. It isnt something you can really avoid, even if you run around naked.

Just Ukraine. Russia cut off Ukraine's gas.
It goes through the Ukraine from Russia to elsewhere in Europe where people pay the Russians for it, rather than merely tapping it for free.

No, it's hitting Germany and Italy as well:

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10001099&sid=aSjEbSfKd5Ck&refer=energy

They've got 15 days of cover though, so it likely won't translate in to any shortages. I'm more concerned about attempts to price-gouge.

http://money.cnn.com/2006/01/02/news/international/gas_prices_germany/

Germany's got 75 days of cover. However, it shows just how vulnerable Western Europe is in terms of its gas supply. They really need to get away from Russia's grasp on ths stuff, since they obviously have no qualms about cutting it off. It's only a matter of time before they start using it as a "weapon".
Na, I'm not worried.
First of all, out of the 5 pipelines that go through the Ukraine, only the 2 ending there have been shut down. Funny that the three going into Western Europe seem have experienced a drop of 100,000 cubic meters. So Gasprom said they'd send another 95,000 cubic meters "our way".
Then, secondly, guess why I ain't that bad of an idea to build that Baltic Sea pipeline from Russia to Germany.

As for the smart remark to stop using Russian gas - if you can come up with a sound alternative, feel free to share!

As for the smart remark to stop using Russian gas - if you can come up with a sound alternative, feel free to share!
Perhaps Europe could go back to using coal gas rather than natural gas? They have huge untapped reserves of coal in Russia, after all.

This kind of thing happens in the US all the time. Did you think it didn't in Europe, or that it was exclusive to Europe? I'm confused as to which error you've made.

I, as well.

Italians, Frenchmen, Spaniards, they're all idiots when it comes to the heating. They always die en masse in summer because it's so warm and during the winter because of the opposite. It's just nature's way make sure South and Middle Europe don't get too overpopulated.

We have never idiotic problems like that here in Scandinavia, even as we have colder winters and many times equally hot summers.
This is as annoying as Americans claiming they are better than everyone.

I'm from Scandinavia, and I'd really be surprised if there have been 30 celsius anywhere here at midnight in the summer. Then again, I live too far north in Scandinavia to raise an eyebrow if the sun is still up at midnight in the summer.

I also live in Scandinavia, it's never been 30 celsius at midnight here!
The first dude from scandinavia just has some issues with the french, the speniards, and itlians...

Anyways i'm only in scandinavia for 2,5 half more years. I have to finish my education. I ended up there couse my original country fucked it self up big time at the begining of the 90s and we had this civil war....
But its cind of cold there to, bosnia I would say that bosnia is colder then norway, at least colder then the Ostlandet area...

Are you from Finmark? I lived there:) for 2 years

now Finmark, thats cold!!!

This thread and even some of the posts seem very familiar. I may be imagining it but has this topic been on NS a few times before? :confused:

In summer, a few people die - and those are pretty much all either old and senile, or sick.
It's the sort of people who sit in their little apartments alone, and don't open the window, and then fall asleep. Same sort of thing as with kids in a car.

When it's cold, it's a little more iffy. I doubt that anyone in Europe actually freezes to death inside, because the houses are generally properly built with bricks and insulated.
It's primarily homeless people who freeze to death, and I would like anyone to show me a case of someone else being the victim.

Of course, the question is why anyone would have to sit outside in the Winter - which is horrible, considering that both the welfare state and the charity of fellow people should help them out.

As for the smart remark to stop using Russian gas - if you can come up with a sound alternative, feel free to share!

There isn't one, really. The only other country with almost as much natural gas as Russia is Iran...so that's not an improvement. Of course, at least you have the North Sea to help cover your needs, at least partially.

There isn't one, really. The only other country with almost as much natural gas as Russia is Iran...so that's not an improvement. Of course, at least you have the North Sea to help cover your needs, at least partially.
You do realize the gas is still running through Ukraine to Europe, right? They have the technology to "cut out" Ukrainian share of the whole *gasp*
Ukraine can't afford to piss off Europe by cutting out the gas supply completely... so the beef is between Russia and Ukraine... the rest of Europe is still provided.. methinks.

You do realize the gas is still running through Ukraine to Europe, right? They have the technology to "cut out" Ukrainian share of the whole *gasp*
Ukraine can't afford to piss off Europe by cutting out the gas supply completely... so the beef is between Russia and Ukraine... the rest of Europe is still provided.. methinks.

You do realize that Russia cut the gas flow by exactly TWICE the amount that Ukraine consumed at its peak a few years ago.

Which means that even if Ukraine doesn't take any, someone is going to be shorted. Apparently, places like Austria are already reporting shortages of natural gas as a result.

You do realize that Russia cut the gas flow by exactly TWICE the amount that Ukraine consumed at its peak a few years ago.

Which means that even if Ukraine doesn't take any, someone is going to be shorted. Apparently, places like Austria are already reporting shortages of natural gas as a result.I do NOT understand it. The quota is in yearly basis... so it can be delivered later. Anyways - there are multilateral treaties dictating what must be delivered and when (I wouldn't be at all surprised if Russia broke those treaties though).

Edit: I do vaguely realize.

I do NOT understand it. The quota is in yearly basis... so it can be delivered later. Anyways - there are multilateral treaties dictating what must be delivered and when (I wouldn't be at all surprised if Russia broke those treaties though).
BBC World Service had it on today that four or five European nations are already complaining that their demand is not being met - all of a sudden.

BBC World Service had it on today that four or five European nations are already complaining that their demand is not being met - all of a sudden.
But that is probably not because of the Russians, more because of the Ukrainians.
I don't think Putin would want to risk the relationship with Europe right now, doing something like this.

BBC World Service had it on today that four or five European nations are already complaining that their demand is not being met - all of a sudden.
I know. Quota per year. Russians. Do the math.

But that is probably not because of the Russians, more because of the Ukrainians.
I don't think Putin would want to risk the relationship with Europe right now, doing something like this.
Putin wouldn't? Really?!? ok.

Yukos ring a bell? Nothing is too much.

Putin wouldn't? Really?!? ok.
He needs Europe and the US to sit by and say nothing while he turns the place fascist. It would be pretty stupid to make everyone angry.

He needs Europe and the US to sit by and say nothing while he turns the place fascist. It would be pretty stupid to make everyone angry.
hehe...
right.

Putin may be crazy, but he isn't crazy enough to piss off half of Europe simulatenously. Unless of course, he is crazy like a fox that is. If I recall, he is already trying to pin this on Ukraine as trying to siphon on gas from European lines. Also, if I recall, Ukraine said it would do that if temperatures went down too far. Either way, Putin will get little or no reprise and Ukraine is going to get its shit ruined.

Putin may be crazy, but he isn't crazy enough to piss off half of Europe simulatenously. Unless of course, he is crazy like a fox that is. If I recall, he is already trying to pin this on Ukraine as trying to siphon on gas from European lines. Also, if I recall, Ukraine said it would do that if temperatures went down too far. Either way, Putin will get little or no reprise and Ukraine is going to get its shit ruined.
What I think is; he is mad cos the Moscow strong man had to flee Ukraine after the most hideously coloured 'revolution'. Kinda smashed Moscow's plans...

Anywho... I'm sure the NS community can manage the Russia-Ukraine thingy.
I'm real short of Laphroaig, so I gotta go.

Just for info...the various EU-companies that had shortages have sued, and Gasprom had to move more through the Ukraine to compensate.

When it's cold, it's a little more iffy. I doubt that anyone in Europe actually freezes to death inside, because the houses are generally properly built with bricks and insulated.
It's primarily homeless people who freeze to death, and I would like anyone to show me a case of someone else being the victim.

I don't think anyone has ever died because of it but few years ago the temperature dropped to -50C in Lapland and at the same time there were blackouts.

There isn't one, really. The only other country with almost as much natural gas as Russia is Iran...so that's not an improvement. Of course, at least you have the North Sea to help cover your needs, at least partially.
That's one reason why several European countries have decided not to shut down their nuclear power plants as they planned but instead build new ones. To be more self sufficient.

too bad they still have to get the uranium from other countries, mostly Russia...

I actually think it's probably because the European media actually reports about the poor, so you get to hear about these kind of things more. In the USA, if you are poor, you don't count... it's like they are swept under the carpet, in both the eyes of the government (no social welfare) and the business-lead media. You hear verry little of the poor in the US, despite the fact that there are millions below the poverty line.