NationStates Jolt Archive

About two weeks ago, I was sworn in. It was a hard decision, but one I will likely not regret. I put down all of my reservations against the war, against Bush, and in some ways - against my own fears. I weighed the possible pitfalls against the gains, and when I raised my right hand, that was it.

Army.

One might look to me and see a fool, as I am a young Democrat, against the war in Iraq (yet I look at it with atleast some optimism), against Bush...he's a disgrace to true Oil Men and Texans alike. But, I swore allegience, and to be honest, it's not that bad. In my OU Pajama-pants and stained white T-shirt, I'm much like the majority of folks whom dislike the current affairs in Government. Yet truly, when I put on my Uniform, it won't matter to me. There comes a time in every Man's (and Woman's) life when they have to own up to something quite undescribable at the time. When an inner-awakening beckons them to a thresh hold that may not have been crossed otherwise.

All of those who look upon the Uniformed as misguided, idiotic, etc., etc., don't pity us...we don't pity you.

I ship out on the for Basic on the 18th, My MOS is as a Chemical Operations Specialist...boot camp and AIT at Ft. LostInTheWoods, MO.

I'm kind of nervous, and I don't really know if I'll have a Girlfriend when I get back, and I know I won't be the same. But I suppose that's a cross everyone must bear one day or another...one moment you're gliding, the next, you're watching your world fall around you...and afterwards, you're looking at your old self of yesteryear through the eyes of who you are today.

No matter your Political Affiliations, wish me luck, please.

Paul R.

I have but one question:

Why?

Oh, and best of luck. Hope you don't get sent to Iraq or find yourself being otherwise utilized as a bullet-stopper.

Sadly I cannot wish you good luck in your chosen profession, for my own reasons.

But I do wish you happiness in the path that you have chosen.

:(

Happy New Year
it is now 2006:fluffle:

congratulations and good luck.

Its called patriotism, not idiocy. Everyone at some point hears the call to give more then they take for once. Good luck to you, may the experience change you for the better, may it make you wiser and give you a better insight in to yourself as a person.


Happy new year.

:sniper: Good Luck. Its a noble [ albeit foolish ] thing you've done. Provided you live you'll either benefit or .. well ;) again, Good luck.

Its called patriotism, not idiocy.

There is no difference between the two. Or does your patriotic loyalty change everytime you move elsewhere ?

However, if they went to defend some ideals, to aid in peacekeeping or to help build bridges, wells and hospitals (which is a side of the military seldom shown) - good luck.

Arkanaland many of my Ancestors have spilled their blood for thier respective countries and the ideals they beloved in i hope that you have a gifted time in the Army and become a better person for your experiences.

I wish I hadn't got into too much trouble as a teenager to enlist. I personally hate Bush with a passion, I think he's a liar and a traitor and a murderer, but I also think that Saddam Hussein is a bad man and needs removed from power whether or not he had WMD, and that Osama bin Laden should be surgically altered into a woman and forced to live as Osama bint Laden and experience first hand what a miserable life the Muslim Nazi Koran prescribes for women.

(No, I've heard enough about how the veil is liberating because it enables women to be seen for who they are instead of as a pretty face. I'm talking about being treated literally as if they were worth less than a man, the weight of their testimony in Islamic Nazi courts vs. that of a man is just all I can think about off the top of my head.)

And it pisses me off that someone can just go and get arrested and live a cushy life in Redneckville, SC, while perfectly good men and women are dying out there.

P.S. I don't hate all Muslims, just fundamentalist extremists who think that they'll get 72 virgins for every white or black person they kill.

Good luck fella. I don't agree with your move, but I do agree with the spirit in which you made it.
Hold onto that rare mix of experimentation and duty. It's usually not supported by the degree thoughtfulness you obviously have.

and experience first hand what a miserable life the Muslim Nazi Koran prescribes for women.

Do note that compared to the mores of the society the Koran was first distributed in it is arguably the most feminist book ever written.
Compared to *current western* morals it may not mean much, but that would be a somewhat unfair comparison.

P.S. I don't hate all Muslims, just fundamentalist extremists who think that they'll get 72 virgins for every white or black person they kill.

I never quite got that. What is the appeal of 72 virgins ? Why not include some experienced girls who can actually teach you some "interesting techniques" ;) ?

Do note that compared to the mores of the society the Koran was first distributed in it is arguably the most feminist book ever written.
Compared to *current western* morals it may not mean much, but that would be a somewhat unfair comparison.



I never quite got that. What is the appeal of 72 virgins ? Why not include some experienced girls who can actually teach you some "interesting techniques" ;) ?
Because it isn't Pure.
Women that know stuff are sluts.

good luck

Because it isn't Pure.
Women that know stuff are sluts.


Or faithfully married women who have half a brain and can experiment.

Statements like that always tend to piss me off.


As for you Sir (Arkanaland); All the best, although I'm not fond of the US armed services I know that they will be better off for having a gentleman such as yourself serving in their ranks.

All the best for the new year, and your career!


Stay safe!

I wish you luck in coming to your senses.

You know, you shouldn't go on drinking binges so often, because you do the stupidest things afterwards (like this one).

I wish you luck in that the shock when you come to your senses again may not be that big.

Best of luck. Remember to change your socks every day.

Good luck, Arkanaland. May you be safe and return home alive (girlfriend or no girlfriend).

To you personally, I wish that you escape harm, although I hope that all the endeavours of the military you joined are stillborn.

Well done. Takes a lot of courage.. ^_^

But, I don't agree with war...

Try not to get your self killed.

Theres a good boy.

RufflesRule.

Congradulations and thank you for serving. I think you have made a very wise choice and not regret your decision. I know I don't regret any of the 26 years I spent in the Air Force. Good luck.

About two weeks ago, I was sworn in. Army.
Kewl! You're embarking on an experience which will change your life for the better. You'll become more self-disciplined, more responsible, physically stronger, and more alert. And you'll be in the company of some of the best men and women in the world. Just don't lose your sense of humor and you should be fine. Kudos!

EDIT: If things get tough for you, just remember that many others have done the same thing, and simply refuse to give up or quit!

In my OU Pajama-pants and stained white T-shirt, I'm much like the majority of folks whom dislike the current affairs in Government.


OU? is that Ohio or Oklahoma? because if it's Ohio :( but if it's Oklahoma :D Boomer Sooner :D

Oh anyway, good luck, basic isn't fun, but you will live (esp. if you are an Okie) I have a lot of family in the armed forces, most of them are marines, but I do have one in the Army and one in the Navy. It's a tough life, but if you are doing it for the right reasons then it's worth the sacrifice.

Oh and don't worry about your girlfriend, chicks dig a guy in uniform, and double dig a guy in the armed forces, honor, discipline, love for his country, and courage, what more could a girl want?
;)

I hope for you sake, GW Shrub does not invade Iran or Syria this year.

Thank you all very much for the support, and even the chastising. My decision hasn't pleased very many people. My friends, some of my family - but it's something I must do. Again, not because I agree with war, but for reasons beyond that. A tempering of myself, a test for my friends and family, and, there's still that hope that maybe...just maybe, there will be a cause that will unite the world again, I wish to be a part of that.

Perhaps that's why I chose Chemical Operations. In that field, I'll be detecting, decontaminating and destroying NBC agents. I'll still be in the battlefield, but I won't be the cutting edge of the sword. Surely my chosen path isn't as noble as a Field Medic, but we will be saving lives in our own way. Some people ask for reasons, I have many. Perhaps that's why I wrote this, and continute writing. The ideals, reasons, and fears, are jumbled up like a ball of snakes, and this is a way of peeling them back one by one.

I want to save lives, not take them.
I want peace in the world, even if I am apart of the Army which brings it.
I want to own up to my own expectations, and thrust the negative wants of others aside.
I still believe that hope and blind devotion are two different beings.
I will try my hardest, earn every virtue - even if the wages of such is my death.

Because my reasons aren't for war, I'm not joining to "kill another raghead." I'm doing it to temper myself, in hopes of making myself a better person, to make better decisions in life...in hopes of making a better tomorrow for those around me...outside the uniform, and hopefully within it.

That's something a mind-numbing paragraph on the back of my temporary Military ID card can never truly put a mind to. Meaning that I ihave plenty of blood in my propaganda stream.

PS: Deffinately OU, go Sooners!

... experience first hand what a miserable life the Muslim Nazi Koran prescribes for women.

...

P.S. I don't hate all Muslims, just fundamentalist extremists who think that they'll get 72 virgins for every white or black person they kill.

If you don't hate all Muslims, then describing their holy book as 'Nazi' seems somewhat foolish to me. Sending out mixed messages and all that.

I wish you luck in coming to your senses.
http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/9025/smileytroutsmack9bd.gif (http://imageshack.us)

congratulations. im sure youll do well.

Good luck, Arkanaland, and don't listen to anyone but your own heart. If you feel it was the right thing to do- more power to you. Go and do it, and take care to not put yourself into harm's way unless there is a good reason to do so.And make sure you do not compromise your moral convictions as well, however strong you may be tempted.

http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/9025/smileytroutsmack9bd.gif (http://imageshack.us)

Sorry, I just don't think that signing up for GW Bush's crusade against whoever he doesn't like is a sensible life choice.

I wish you the best of luck!

To you personally, I wish that you escape harm, although I hope that all the endeavours of the military you joined are stillborn.

http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/9025/smileytroutsmack9bd.gif (http://imageshack.us)

One question, why the goddamn army? Shoulda joined the Corps, and become a real man haha.I'm about to finish my tour in Iraq, its not that bad, unless your in Bagdad or one of the other northern cities you probably wont hear any gunfire.

Just kiddin about the joinin and Corps and bein a real man, its good to have another person in the armed services, good luck, and get some.

Perhaps that's why I chose Chemical Operations. In that field, I'll be detecting, decontaminating and destroying NBC agents. I'll still be in the battlefield, but I won't be the cutting edge of the sword. Surely my chosen path isn't as noble as a Field Medic, but we will be saving lives in our own way. Some people ask for reasons, I have many. Perhaps that's why I wrote this, and continute writing. The ideals, reasons, and fears, are jumbled up like a ball of snakes, and this is a way of peeling them back one by one.


PS: Deffinately OU, go Sooners!

I do hope that someone has told you that every single "cutting edge of the sword" company has an NBC NCO and two NBC Specialists. I also hope you are aware that units deployed in advance of "cutting edge of the sword" units such as the various flavors of Airborne ones also deploy NBC personel in almost all operations. Upon graduation you will almost certainly be assigned to the headquarters platoon of a company such as this until such time you gain the rank to move on to a Regimental, or Brigade element that remains toward the rear or back at Ft. LivingRoom.
My last NBC NCO arrived at Ft Bragg, leg hat in hand, and the following day was on a C-130 headed for Airborne school. He got much more than he had bargined for.
Did you get a guarenteed first duty station or do they still do that?

http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/9025/smileytroutsmack9bd.gif (http://imageshack.us)

Do you right wingers always beat the hell out of anyone who disagrees with you?

Do you right wingers always beat the hell out of anyone who disagrees with you?

Pretty much. :D

(J/k)

About two weeks ago, I was sworn in. It was a hard decision, but one I will likely not regret. I put down all of my reservations against the war, against Bush, and in some ways - against my own fears. I weighed the possible pitfalls against the gains, and when I raised my right hand, that was it.

Army.

One might look to me and see a fool, as I am a young Democrat, against the war in Iraq (yet I look at it with atleast some optimism), against Bush...he's a disgrace to true Oil Men and Texans alike. But, I swore allegience, and to be honest, it's not that bad. In my OU Pajama-pants and stained white T-shirt, I'm much like the majority of folks whom dislike the current affairs in Government. Yet truly, when I put on my Uniform, it won't matter to me. There comes a time in every Man's (and Woman's) life when they have to own up to something quite undescribable at the time. When an inner-awakening beckons them to a thresh hold that may not have been crossed otherwise.

All of those who look upon the Uniformed as misguided, idiotic, etc., etc., don't pity us...we don't pity you.

I ship out on the for Basic on the 18th, My MOS is as a Chemical Operations Specialist...boot camp and AIT at Ft. LostInTheWoods, MO.

I'm kind of nervous, and I don't really know if I'll have a Girlfriend when I get back, and I know I won't be the same. But I suppose that's a cross everyone must bear one day or another...one moment you're gliding, the next, you're watching your world fall around you...and afterwards, you're looking at your old self of yesteryear through the eyes of who you are today.

No matter your Political Affiliations, wish me luck, please.

Paul R.
Good Luck, and keep your head and @$$ down.

Sorry, I just don't think that signing up for GW Bush's crusade against whoever he doesn't like is a sensible life choice.

...and sitting back at home collecting a welfare check, hiding out at "Uni", or other wise living off the generosity of other's is? All the while, completely dismissing the reasons we are there, undercutting the efforts at every oppourtunity, and demeaning anyone who feels a sense of obligation or duty to serve. That is your idea of a sensible life choice? It sounds more like ensuring one lives their lives with the knowledge that they are either a coward, a traitor, or an enemy sympathizer to me.

Why is it that everybody who joins the US army feels the need to open a thread on it here? :confused:

Don't get me wrong, it's your choice of job, hope you'll like it. But it seems to be the only job that compells people to open a thread in order to rake in the congratulations...

I'd love to see a doctor do that, so I could congratulate him. Or a lawyer. A teacher. A Used-Car-Salesman. An IT developer. A secretary....

But no, it's always the soldiers. Forgive me, but it looks a bit like showing off by now.

Well, it was your choice to risk life and limbs, so why should I wish you good luck? Just don't get shot.

Why is it that everybody who joins the US army feels the need to open a thread on it here? :confused:

Don't get me wrong, it's your choice of job, hope you'll like it. But it seems to be the only job that compells people to open a thread in order to rake in the congratulations...

I'd love to see a doctor do that, so I could congratulate him. Or a lawyer. A teacher. A Used-Car-Salesman. An IT developer. A secretary....

But no, it's always the soldiers. Forgive me, but it looks a bit like showing off by now.

Maybe because it takes a degree of magnitude more dedication and effort for far less material reward, and give something back to even those that cannot or will not appreciate it. It truly is something you would have to go through to be able to comprehend, and cannot be appreciated from the vantage point of a cozy house, munching on popcorn and consuming a steady diet of 24 hour pundent news.

Lawyers - live off the misery of others
Used Car Salesman - make a living selling other peoples trouble
IT Developers - wrestle with computers
Secretaries - wrestle with thier boss
Teachers - well... they are supposed to teach but that seems optional these days.

Combined risk for the above = ZERO

Teachers - well... they are supposed to teach but that seems optional these days.

Combined risk for the above = ZERO

So.. would the world be a better place with less teachers and more soldiers ?

Maybe because it takes a degree of magnitude more dedication and effort for far less material reward, and give something back to even those that cannot or will not appreciate it. It truly is something you would have to go through to be able to comprehend, and cannot be appreciated from the vantage point of a cozy house, munching on popcorn and consuming a steady diet of 24 hour pundent news.

Lawyers - live off the misery of others
Used Car Salesman - make a living selling other peoples trouble
IT Developers - wrestle with computers
Secretaries - wrestle with thier boss
Teachers - well... they are supposed to teach but that seems optional these days.

Combined risk for the above = ZERO

So... taking money for taking risks makes you a better person?
I have to remember to always admire these folks (http://moneycentral.msn.com/content/invest/extra/P63405.asp?Printer), then. ;)

Honestly. It's a job. Yes, it's a risky one, and it's a morally dubious one (to say the least). But it's a job, and it's your decision. Why come here and brag about it?

Dear Liverbreath:

I pay for my own education at "Uni" (whatever the hell that's supposed to mean). I do this so I don't have to live my life serving some White House douchebag's interests. Does that make me a coward?

I feel no compulsion to "serve" in the military, mainly because I don't want to get sent to a hellhole and run the risk of getting my body ripped apart by a bomb or get killed in a friendly-fire incident. Does that make me a traitor?

I'd rather spend my life in the US (yeah, you heard me), living my life as I (meaning me) want to, without dickheads like you breathing down my neck about bullshit notions of "honour" and "service." Funny how these words glorify death.

Please, do go to hell.


Sincerely,
Colin "The Soviet Americas" B.

So.. would the world be a better place with less teachers and more soldiers ?

NO!

But it would be better place if teachers would find a way to teach people to find things in common with one another, rather than work as tools for the state and highlight their differences.

NO!

But it would be better place if teachers would find a way to teach people to find things in common with one another, rather than work as tools for the state and highlight their differences.

Now, THAT sounds like one great conspiracy theory. Please, do elaborate...

Liverbreath: When I said Cutting Edge, I meant in a much more cellular level. I know that chances are, I will face battle. However, I was leaning more towards infantry in reference to that statement.

Droskianishk, haha. I have a lot of respect for the Marines, my uncle was a Helicopter Mechanic in the Corps. And thanks for the heads up, it's a pleasure meeting someone else in the Service.

Evilness, I don't even like Bush, I wouldn't have voted for him. That was my first trial of joining the Army. I had to swear allegiance to a man whose Policies I disagree with...but it would be the same with any President, no doubt.

To say that all those who enlist are signing onto a personal crusade is true to some instance...however, it is not unto Bush which our souls are signed. It's our own personal crusade. Because for various reasons, numerous causes that are often unknown, I suspect that many "Crusades" are our own.

I can see how this thread could be mistaken for a "path me on the back" request, but really it's not. I have no reason to show off, because in reality, I do not think this is any more deserving of respect than other professions. At my old job, I could have been crushed by 2-ton weights overhead while I slipped around covered in oil. I sure as hell didn't recieve a pat on the back for that, and that's just fine with me. That's how I think of being in the Army...it's something I chose, and as such, I don't deserve any more attention than someone who chooses to be a Doctor, a Lawyer, or any other service, public or otherwise.

So... taking money for taking risks makes you a better person?
I have to remember to always admire these folks (http://moneycentral.msn.com/content/invest/extra/P63405.asp?Printer), then. ;)

Honestly. It's a job. Yes, it's a risky one, and it's a morally dubious one (to say the least). But it's a job, and it's your decision. Why come here and brag about it?
Because they are proud of what they are doing/have done. if someone opened a thread saying they just graduated and is now a Full Police officer, I would still offer congratulations. same for a Teacher, An Author who published their first work, a programmer who wrote his/her first marketable program...

they are taking pride in what they are doing. if others are not posting then that's up to them. for me, tho. It takes alot of courage to place yourself in harms way, Just as it takes courage to guide the future generation, or to improve one's quality of life. I'll celebrate that courage and will partake in any celebration where the poster is proud of the choices [s]he made.

Because they are proud of what they are doing/have done. if someone opened a thread saying they just graduated and is now a Full Police officer, I would still offer congratulations. same for a Teacher, An Author who published their first work, a programmer who wrote his/her first marketable program...

they are taking pride in what they are doing. if others are not posting then that's up to them. for me, tho. It takes alot of courage to place yourself in harms way, Just as it takes courage to guide the future generation, or to improve one's quality of life. I'll celebrate that courage and will partake in any celebration where the poster is proud of the choices [s]he made.


That much I understand and agree with. Although, in the case of soldiers, I personally wouldn't whole-heartedly agree with their choice as it involves the decision to kill or to help kill others.

What really starts to get me the wrong way is the number of post by people who just enlisted compared to the number of posts of people who just started another kind of job or education.
To me, that begins to look an awful lot like bragging and showing off, asking for congratulations (particularly before these people have done anything but sign a piece of paper yet) and looking for a fight with pacifist and others who disagree with the military. You could say I disagree with this kind of attitude...

Good look out there man, don't worrry you'll probably won't see any action, so you don't need to worry of anything else but boredom.

Dear Liverbreath:

I pay for my own education at "Uni" (whatever the hell that's supposed to mean). I do this so I don't have to live my life serving some White House douchebag's interests. Does that make me a coward?

I feel no compulsion to "serve" in the military, mainly because I don't want to get sent to a hellhole and run the risk of getting my body ripped apart by a bomb or get killed in a friendly-fire incident. Does that make me a traitor?

I'd rather spend my life in the US (yeah, you heard me), living my life as I (meaning me) want to, without dickheads like you breathing down my neck about bullshit notions of "honour" and "service." Funny how these words glorify death.

Please, do go to hell.


Sincerely,
Colin "The Soviet Americas" B.

Dear Soviet Americas,

It is good to hear that you attend a private university, or forgo the numerous taxpayer, corporate and other grants that others so generously provide for todays youth to get a good education. You are indeed the rare individual among your peers. Whatever the reason you do it, they are your own and no, that does not make you a coward, it makes you independent.

You of course have no compulsion to join the military if you are afraid of getting ripped apart and it does not make you a traitor. A coward maybe, but that is why we have a volunteer military. Why not use a bit of that education to realize that undermining them, belittling them and insulting them will have only one effect and that will eventually be the need to force even cowards into military service. Take a look at the rest of the world if you think this is not possible.

I don't ever recall breathing down your neck. Not even once. If the terms honor and service are so threatening to you, why not celebrate the individuals who understand them for what they are, instead working toward having the meaning shown to you. What a shame there is no such class as common sense one can take in school. It would teach you to think ahead a few moves as the consequences of ones actions when young often have unintended results later down the road. Hopefully someday, you will over come your fears and find something worth standing up for. Maybe then you will come to respect the position others have, their right to have them and the benefit they can be to you.

Please go to hell?
Been there, or someplace similar I am sure.

About two weeks ago, I was sworn in. It was a hard decision, but one I will likely not regret. I put down all of my reservations against the war, against Bush, and in some ways - against my own fears. I weighed the possible pitfalls against the gains, and when I raised my right hand, that was it.

Army.

One might look to me and see a fool, as I am a young Democrat, against the war in Iraq (yet I look at it with atleast some optimism), against Bush...he's a disgrace to true Oil Men and Texans alike. But, I swore allegience, and to be honest, it's not that bad. In my OU Pajama-pants and stained white T-shirt, I'm much like the majority of folks whom dislike the current affairs in Government. Yet truly, when I put on my Uniform, it won't matter to me. There comes a time in every Man's (and Woman's) life when they have to own up to something quite undescribable at the time. When an inner-awakening beckons them to a thresh hold that may not have been crossed otherwise.

All of those who look upon the Uniformed as misguided, idiotic, etc., etc., don't pity us...we don't pity you.

I ship out on the for Basic on the 18th, My MOS is as a Chemical Operations Specialist...boot camp and AIT at Ft. LostInTheWoods, MO.

I'm kind of nervous, and I don't really know if I'll have a Girlfriend when I get back, and I know I won't be the same. But I suppose that's a cross everyone must bear one day or another...one moment you're gliding, the next, you're watching your world fall around you...and afterwards, you're looking at your old self of yesteryear through the eyes of who you are today.

No matter your Political Affiliations, wish me luck, please.

Paul R.


Good luck. I certainly don't see a fool. I see a young person who can see beyond his own interests.

Both my kids joined the Navy just before Desert Storm. My son was 17 at the time and my daughter was 19. It was a positive experience for both of them. They went from aimless kids to motivated, goal-oriented adults. They have developed a broad world view and compassion for others.
And most of all, they learned to know themselves.

Best of luck Arkanaland. By your name I assume you are from Arkansas. I was born in Lonoke County, and lived there until I was 14. A few years ago I went to a Lonoke HS reunion and was just amazed at how well I was received by all my old friends. As the song says, "Folks down there are not forgotten".
With that said; I want to assure you that your service will not be in vain, but will be appreciated by all of us who have served before you. The US Army isn't made up of democrats and republicans, black or whites, but men and women who respond to the call to serve.
Keep your head low, and your powder dry:)

That much I understand and agree with. Although, in the case of soldiers, I personally wouldn't whole-heartedly agree with their choice as it involves the decision to kill or to help kill others.

What really starts to get me the wrong way is the number of post by people who just enlisted compared to the number of posts of people who just started another kind of job or education.
To me, that begins to look an awful lot like bragging and showing off, asking for congratulations (particularly before these people have done anything but sign a piece of paper yet) and looking for a fight with pacifist and others who disagree with the military. You could say I disagree with this kind of attitude...

I'm surely not looking for a fight, even when I get shipped out I won't be. I'm hardly even looking for a congratulations, especially for one whom hasn't even gone into Boot yet. There are far more deserving People out there than the likes of me. There are those that have gone before me...my Grandpa who trained at the very Camp I'm going to, and served in Korea. There are People which have written books that truly make people think, and aspire, and become something more than what they were before they turned the page. There are teachers who create more than what they themselves are. There are even some Lawyers who protect the rights of the innocent, without thinking of personal gain.

Truly, I seek no pat on the back...but I do wish to become as worthy of respect and earn it as well. in the uniform and out.

Now, THAT sounds like one great conspiracy theory. Please, do elaborate...

Cabra, if I elaborated on finding things in common instead of finding differences and reporting them it would take an entire thread. That said, it has since I was a child been my opinion that governments (all of them) keep the attention off of themselves by teaching their people not to live in harmony by encouraging them to seek out differences and highlight them. I believe that if people were to focus their efforts through education to find things in common with one another instead of the differences, that governments would not so easily be able to ignore the will of their populations, and instead become a true reflection of them.

I may be wrong, but I have considered this from every angle for many years and believe it now more than ever. I'd like to live long enough to see it actually tried with all the vigor of our positive discrimination, protected class, and unequal opportunity garbage has been.

Cabra, if I elaborated on finding things in common instead of finding differences and reporting them it would take an entire thread. That said, it has since I was a child been my opinion that governments (all of them) keep the attention off of themselves by teaching their people not to live in harmony by encouraging them to seek out differences and highlight them. I believe that if people were to focus their efforts through education to find things in common with one another instead of the differences, that governments would not so easily be able to ignore the will of their populations, and instead become a true reflection of them.

I fear that by stimulating an "us vs them" feeling the governments are in fact acting out the will of the people. People are not as noble as you hope :(

Liverbreath: When I said Cutting Edge, I meant in a much more cellular level. I know that chances are, I will face battle. However, I was leaning more towards infantry in reference to that statement.



Well good, I am glad. I can say for a fact that recruiters do not lie, but they do not always tell the entire story in it's proper perspective either. The very best of wishes to you in all your future endevors. You will learn more than you thought possible, and while the time may come that you decide that you would never do it again, you will also never trade it for anything in the world.

P.S. Never Ever let anyone talk you into giving them just a little bit of CS! It will always come right back to you and frankly they can always get what they want off the floor of the NBC chamber. ;)

I fear that by stimulating an "us vs them" feeling the governments are in fact acting out the will of the people. People are not as noble as you hope :(

It is not about being noble my friend. It is about policy. Policy dictated by people who have already been elected or appointed into systems that only a select few are ever subject to the will of the people. If you go back say 40 years or so you will find that the laws and programs implemented after the federal take over of eduction were done so by individuals in small groups entirely against the will of the people, regardless of the color of their skin , religion or nationality. They were programs that clearly failed at their stated goals and consistently had the opposite effect of them.
Politicians are not so stupid that they would enact laws and programs that create inequality for the purpose of creating equality. While many are definately stupid, even the dim bulb can see, that you cannot promote equality or harmony by intentionally introducing legislation that makes one person more equal than another. That, is a simple recipe for divide and conquer.

Or faithfully married women who have half a brain and can experiment.

Statements like that always tend to piss me off.


As for you Sir (Arkanaland); All the best, although I'm not fond of the US armed services I know that they will be better off for having a gentleman such as yourself serving in their ranks.

All the best for the new year, and your career!


Stay safe!
Er in the context of 72 Virgins for killing things in the name of Allah......

Thanks, Arkanaland. Good luck to you.

I would only join the Army if it was certain I could be a tank crewman. That would be such a sick job.

I would only join the Army if it was certain I could be a tank crewman. That would be such a sick job.

not if you suffer from motion sickness :eek:

I'm joining the marines as soon as I leave school (and have a few weeks to bang in the bedposts of course ) which will either kill me or make me so hopefully we will run into each other sooner or later just make sure you bring bog roll because the military has trouble supplying that sort of thing

Huzzah for NS and its secret recruitment objective!

To you personally, I wish that you escape harm, although I hope that all the endeavours of the military you joined are stillborn. Too bad you won't get your wish. Well, unless the mighty Swedish Army comes to defeat us. :D

About two weeks ago, I was sworn in. It was a hard decision, but one I will likely not regret. I put down all of my reservations against the war, against Bush, and in some ways - against my own fears. I weighed the possible pitfalls against the gains, and when I raised my right hand, that was it.

Army.
Congratulations Paul. I wish you the best of luck.

Truly, I seek no pat on the back...but I do wish to become as worthy of respect and earn it as well. in the uniform and out.
You may not be looking for a pat on the pat, but be prepared for lots of them, and know that you deserve them.

Alot of Americans are proud of people like you, and you have our undying thanks. Especially if you don't like Bush. It shows a lot of character, and it shows people who like Bush (like me) that there are people who don't like Bush, yet can put that aside in service of their country. Your one of the uniters of the country. Be proud of that.

Good luck! We're proud of you.

There is no difference between the two. Or does your patriotic loyalty change everytime you move elsewhere?
Patriotism is about helping other people. What's bad about that?

Do note that compared to the mores of the society the Koran was first distributed in it is arguably the most feminist book ever written.
Compared to *current western* morals it may not mean much, but that would be a somewhat unfair comparison.

I agree that 1400 years ago it probably was the most feminist book ever, but this is not c.606AD. It's time to move on and end inequality once and for all.

I never quite got that. What is the appeal of 72 virgins ? Why not include some experienced girls who can actually teach you some "interesting techniques" ;) ?
Now this I agree with entirely.

Because my reasons aren't for war, I'm not joining to "kill another raghead." I'm doing it to temper myself, in hopes of making myself a better person, to make better decisions in life...in hopes of making a better tomorrow for those around me...outside the uniform, and hopefully within it.

It warms my heart to see one with hope so high and and ideals so right. :)

No matter your Political Affiliations, wish me luck, please.

Paul R.
Good luck following orders, Mr. R. Hope they don't order you to get dead anytime soon.

...and sitting back at home collecting a welfare check, hiding out at "Uni", or other wise living off the generosity of other's is? All the while, completely dismissing the reasons we are there, undercutting the efforts at every oppourtunity, and demeaning anyone who feels a sense of obligation or duty to serve. That is your idea of a sensible life choice? It sounds more like ensuring one lives their lives with the knowledge that they are either a coward, a traitor, or an enemy sympathizer to me.
I'm totally on Paul's side here, but I don't see why studying at university is a waste of time (collecting welfare obviously is, though). Nor do I see how it is a mere chance to freeload (the soldiers are also paid by taxes).

Besides, can you imagine the chaos if even 20% of the population became soldiers?

Don't get me wrong, it's your choice of job, hope you'll like it. But it seems to be the only job that compells people to open a thread in order to rake in the congratulations...

I'd love to see a doctor do that, so I could congratulate him. Or a lawyer. A teacher. A Used-Car-Salesman. An IT developer. A secretary....

But no, it's always the soldiers. Forgive me, but it looks a bit like showing off by now.
Those jobs usually don't necessitate a complete change in lifestyle and location.

Lawyers - live off the misery of others
Used Car Salesman - make a living selling other peoples trouble
IT Developers - wrestle with computers
Secretaries - wrestle with thier boss
Teachers - well... they are supposed to teach but that seems optional these days.
Don't diss the teachers! Along with doctors, soldiers and farmers they are, in my opinion, among the most important core that takes care of society. In any society. Keep in mind that many teachers don't like the cirriculum any more than you. They just have to teach it. The merits of centrally controlled education can be discussed in another thread.

Your job descriptions are as simplistic and misleading as:
Soldiers - paid to kill people

Cabra, if I elaborated on finding things in common instead of finding differences and reporting them it would take an entire thread. That said, it has since I was a child been my opinion that governments (all of them) keep the attention off of themselves by teaching their people not to live in harmony by encouraging them to seek out differences and highlight them. I believe that if people were to focus their efforts through education to find things in common with one another instead of the differences, that governments would not so easily be able to ignore the will of their populations, and instead become a true reflection of them.

I may be wrong, but I have considered this from every angle for many years and believe it now more than ever. I'd like to live long enough to see it actually tried with all the vigor of our positive discrimination, protected class, and unequal opportunity garbage has been.
I really agree with you here. But I don't see how you can support anything but the nationalisation of all education. Private schools serve to highlight divisions too - class divisions.

I really agree with you here. But I don't see how you can support anything but the nationalisation of all education. Private schools serve to highlight divisions too - class divisions.

I am on his side also. My point was to a detractor of his decision.

Actually nationalization of education (the american equivalent) was the beginning of the decline in education in America. Before the federal take over through various bribery programs, education in the U.S. was at it's height, with control belonging to the people who had a real stake in the results. The teachers and parents to be exact.
Socializing education in the US has been an absolute disaster because it shoves an never ending batch of politically motivated mandates down the throat of everyone involved excect the politicians who dictate them.
Privatized education on the other hand is not the entire solution, but it can well play a part in it. One thing that can be said for the success in private education is that they will gladly teach children to a much higher standard that government mandated programs could ever hope to. There is absolutely no reason on earth that all children cannot benefit from this, by simply diverting money from failing governmental schools to this sort of program. If a private institution fails their students, they are out of business, simple as that.

Patriotism is about helping other people. What's bad about that?

It is ? Explain that please - and why "patriotism" is the only way to do it. Because the only way I can see it is about "helping other people" is the way racism is about "helping other people". Those "other people" being your own race of course.

I agree that 1400 years ago it probably was the most feminist book ever, but this is not c.606AD. It's time to move on and end inequality once and for all.

Why ? I agree, but I am wondering if you can actually provide a supporting argumentation which is based on objectivity instead of your personal morals.

Best wishes. Come back safe.

Good luck, you are a brave man. Keep thee well.

Before I begin, I hope you realize that I don't mean any offense by any of this....

I want to save lives, not take them.

Then you should have become a paramedic, a police officer, or a fireman. Or any job you wanted and become a Weekend Warrior on top of it.

I want peace in the world, even if I am apart of the Army which brings it.

Peace comes after the army leaves, not while it's there.

I want to own up to my own expectations, and thrust the negative wants of others aside.

Couldn't you do that as a fireman or police officer?

I still believe that hope and blind devotion are two different beings.

I won't tell you that they are, because I believe as you do on this point.

I will try my hardest, earn every virtue - even if the wages of such is my death.

If you're after virtue, perhaps you would have been better off majoring in Theology....

If the other virtues on your list include courage and valor, then, again, you could have become a police officer or fireman. And if you absolutely wanted to get military service, you could have also signed up for the National Guard.

But, again, best of luck.

About two weeks ago, I was sworn in. It was a hard decision, but one I will likely not regret. I put down all of my reservations against the war, against Bush, and in some ways - against my own fears. I weighed the possible pitfalls against the gains, and when I raised my right hand, that was it.

Army.

One might look to me and see a fool, as I am a young Democrat, against the war in Iraq (yet I look at it with atleast some optimism), against Bush...he's a disgrace to true Oil Men and Texans alike. But, I swore allegience, and to be honest, it's not that bad. In my OU Pajama-pants and stained white T-shirt, I'm much like the majority of folks whom dislike the current affairs in Government. Yet truly, when I put on my Uniform, it won't matter to me. There comes a time in every Man's (and Woman's) life when they have to own up to something quite undescribable at the time. When an inner-awakening beckons them to a thresh hold that may not have been crossed otherwise.

All of those who look upon the Uniformed as misguided, idiotic, etc., etc., don't pity us...we don't pity you.

I ship out on the for Basic on the 18th, My MOS is as a Chemical Operations Specialist...boot camp and AIT at Ft. LostInTheWoods, MO.

I'm kind of nervous, and I don't really know if I'll have a Girlfriend when I get back, and I know I won't be the same. But I suppose that's a cross everyone must bear one day or another...one moment you're gliding, the next, you're watching your world fall around you...and afterwards, you're looking at your old self of yesteryear through the eyes of who you are today.

No matter your Political Affiliations, wish me luck, please.

Paul R.

A good way to get your m16/m4 clean is to take it in the shower with you (YES, it does work) then dry it off REALLY REALLY good afterwards(hair dryer), and use Tuff-cloth to wipe it down and lubricate it. People will think you are really in love your gun, but it will pass inspection. Now, as far as your bunk, I can't help you there...:D

Listen to your drill Sgt's, and keep your head down. Oh yes, GET SOME! (Coat your ammo in bacon for me :D )

So very silly...

I agree with Cabra West, by the way. Since when is signing your own rational mind away in favour of orders made by people obviously unqualified to make them (seeing as to how the US Military is in Iraq, and what it's doing there) a thing to be admired?

Oh yes, GET SOME! (Coat your ammo in bacon for me :D )
If this means what I think it means, then you are absolutely and totally disgusting. And I'm not kidding either.

A good way to get your m16/m4 clean is to take it in the shower with you (YES, it does work) then dry it off REALLY REALLY good afterwards(hair dryer), and use Tuff-cloth to wipe it down and lubricate it. People will think you are really in love your gun, but it will pass inspection. Now, as far as your bunk, I can't help you there...:D

Listen to your drill Sgt's, and keep your head down. Oh yes, GET SOME! (Coat your ammo in bacon for me :D )
I'm sure you're an expert at rubbing & lubricating your pe- erm, rifle.

Good luck Arkanaland! :(

Be safe and come back soon! ;)

If this means what I think it means, then you are absolutely and totally disgusting. And I'm not kidding either.

I think it does mean what you think it means. Because I think it means what you think it means. Which is just sadistic....

God be with you.

My dad is in Iraq right now, so...
It was reason enough to go after Saddam because of the murder and torure he caused.

A good way to get your m16/m4 clean is to take it in the shower with you (YES, it does work) then dry it off REALLY REALLY good afterwards(hair dryer), and use Tuff-cloth to wipe it down and lubricate it. People will think you are really in love your gun, but it will pass inspection.ARF-COM and IBTL - The weapons expert. :D
(Coat your ammo in bacon for me :D )
eww...

I think it does mean what you think it means. Because I think it means what you think it means. Which is just sadistic....
Yes. Don't just kill the dirty arabs, make sure you defile them with pork. Yay! :(

Yes. Don't just kill the dirty arabs, make sure you defile them with pork. Yay! :(

Except it's 5.56mm NATO he'll be shooting. So he'll only be defiling them with pork. Which is a greivous insult in Islam, if I recall correctly.

Except it's 5.56mm NATO he'll be shooting. So he'll only be defiling them with pork. Which is a greivous insult in Islam, if I recall correctly.
Duh.

Except it's 5.56mm NATO he'll be shooting. So he'll only be defiling them with pork. Which is a greivous insult in Islam, if I recall correctly.

Is that to say that 5.56mm isn't an effectively lethal round? I've never shot at humans (hope not to), and when I've hunted I've mostly used various casings of .30.

Does 5.56mm really display a low lethality in a general sense, or only when compared to heavier grainweight rounds like 7.62 or .50?

Oh, and on topic, I hope the original poster stays safe.

Does 5.56mm really display a low lethality in a general sense, or only when compared to heavier grainweight rounds like 7.62 or .50?
Getting shot with an assault rifle will usually result in death (depending of course where you get hit), regardless of the size of the calibre.
The same could be said of pretty much all other guns.

Getting shot with an assault rifle will usually result in death (depending of course where you get hit), regardless of the size of the calibre.
The same could be said of pretty much all other guns.

So would the instances of lethality from a single wound, say to the torso, be approximately the same regardless of calibre? My experience with hunting indicates that there might actually be a wide range of effectiveness, but I honestly don't know if those trends would carry to humans.

As to an "assault rifle", I've always found the legal definition of "assault rifle" (at least in the U.S.) to be more cosmetic than anything. Speaking comparatively, I guess I'd rather take a 5.56 from an "assault rifle" than a .300 Winmag from a bolt-action elk rifle.

On topic, hopefully there are (or soon will be) effective countermeasures against other threats, especially explosive devices and things. I'm sure its horrible to be shot, but probably no fun to be blasted, either...

Is that to say that 5.56mm isn't an effectively lethal round? I've never shot at humans (hope not to), and when I've hunted I've mostly used various casings of .30.

Does 5.56mm really display a low lethality in a general sense, or only when compared to heavier grainweight rounds like 7.62 or .50?

Oh, and on topic, I hope the original poster stays safe.

The 5.56mm has a piss poor record of being an effective service rifle cartridge. Accurate? yep. Light recoil? Yep. Lethal? Nope. There was a terrorist who got shot 5 times and still kept fighting-they even shot off one of the guy's testicles and he still kept coming.

Many who write about the military have no idea what the traditions and general feeling of brotherhood those of us who have served have. Here is an article worth reading. http://www.nwguardian.com/news/story/5401046p-4880777c.html

I have had the honor to be present at many of the Menton Day Balls. Other Army units have traditions that date back even longer than that.
Good Luck Arkanaland and walk proud.

The 5.56mm has a piss poor record of being an effective service rifle cartridge. Accurate? yep. Light recoil? Yep. Lethal? Nope. There was a terrorist who got shot 5 times and still kept fighting-they even shot off one of the guy's testicles and he still kept coming.
Most accounts I've read give the 5.56 round an edge in close in fighting. The round fragments and that is what causes most of the damage. In fighting under 100 yards, this is the round I'd like. It's lighter and smaller than a .308, so you can carry more of it. Ammo that you can't carry is pretty useless stuff.

Most people don't aim rounds anymore, anyhow. The ones that do are getting M-14s.

So would the instances of lethality from a single wound, say to the torso, be approximately the same regardless of calibre? My experience with hunting indicates that there might actually be a wide range of effectiveness, but I honestly don't know if those trends would carry to humans.

As to an "assault rifle", I've always found the legal definition of "assault rifle" (at least in the U.S.) to be more cosmetic than anything. Speaking comparatively, I guess I'd rather take a 5.56 from an "assault rifle" than a .300 Winmag from a bolt-action elk rifle.


An assault rifle is defined as being a "medium" range cartridge, and having a "go-happy" Full-auto selector stop.

On topic, hopefully there are (or soon will be) effective countermeasures against other threats, especially explosive devices and things. I'm sure its horrible to be shot, but probably no fun to be blasted, either...




ARF-COM and IBTL - The weapons expert. :D

eww...


Ehehe, looks like all that training pays off :D


I'm sure you're an expert at rubbing & lubricating your pe- erm, rifle.

I make it a habit to keep my rifles clean and lubricated. Not only will they last longer, but they will work reliably in all climates when I need them.

I make it a habit to keep my rifles clean and lubricated. Not only will they last longer, but they will work reliably in all climates when I need them.
You need to keep that lube to a minimum when in dirty and dusty environments. The grit sticks to the oil and acts like ... well, like grit.

Most accounts I've read give the 5.56 round an edge in close in fighting. The round fragments and that is what causes most of the damage. In fighting under 100 yards, this is the round I'd like. It's lighter and smaller than a .308, so you can carry more of it. Ammo that you can't carry is pretty useless stuff.

Most people don't aim rounds anymore, anyhow. The ones that do are getting M-14s.

They either need to phase out the 5.56 in favor of the 6.8 SPC, or start using some heavier the 77gr mk262 ammo. The 5.56 has pretty weak penetration.

So very silly...

I agree with Cabra West, by the way. Since when is signing your own rational mind away in favour of orders made by people obviously unqualified to make them (seeing as to how the US Military is in Iraq, and what it's doing there) a thing to be admired?

If that had been so the Iraqis would have sent us Reeling to the Saudi border. Since that didn't happen, I'm guessing the US military is run by qualified and able individuals.

You need to keep that lube to a minimum when in dirty and dusty environments. The grit sticks to the oil and acts like ... well, like grit.

I use tuff-cloth. It's a dry lubed cloth that is like a film that dirt and crap doesn't stick to it.

Works great.

They either need to phase out the 5.56 in favor of the 6.8 SPC, or start using some heavier the 77gr mk262 ammo. The 5.56 has pretty weak penetration.
I doubt we'll see a new cartridge anytime soon. The other problem with the larger bullet is that it you a faster twist in the barrel for it to be accurate. I don't know what the USGI twist is, but it's probably not 1x8". That's the minimum that Sierra recommends for its 77 grain Matchking bullets.

I doubt we'll see a new cartridge anytime soon. The other problem with the larger bullet is that it you a faster twist in the barrel for it to be accurate. I don't know what the USGI twist is, but it's probably not 1x8". That's the minimum that Sierra recommends for its 77 grain Matchking bullets.

Yep :mad: . All of Nato and most everyone else not using the 7.62x39 is using 5.56mm weapons. Changing over to 6.8 would mean NATO following suite too.

Heck, There was once this lady in Illinois that was shot 15 times by her pyscho husband (who had an Ar15) and she was still able to run a mile and a half to get help. YES, a TRUE story. The officer referred to it as an "assault rifle" though. Moron. (He graduated from the same college I went to too).

Most accounts I've read give the 5.56 round an edge in close in fighting. The round fragments and that is what causes most of the damage. In fighting under 100 yards, this is the round I'd like. It's lighter and smaller than a .308, so you can carry more of it. Ammo that you can't carry is pretty useless stuff.

Most people don't aim rounds anymore, anyhow. The ones that do are getting M-14s.

Except for the fact that the whole rationale behind the 5.56mm NATO goes out the window when you consider that training now emphasizes the expediture of three rounds of 5.56mm NATO ammunition against a single target. Compared with the earlier 7.62mm NATO, where one was only trained to put one bullet in a target (and more as needed), you kinda lose the advantage of being able to carry extra ammo.

The problem is further aggravated by the fact that 5.56mm NATO ammunition was designed to penetrate soft body armors and then expand in a well-fed person of the Western European persuassion. Because of the fact that Iraqis tend not to be as rotund as Westerners, the ammunition cannot expand fully in the body.

In fighting under 100 yards, I'd prefer a .45 ACP subgun, but that's me.

I doubt we'll see a new cartridge anytime soon. The other problem with the larger bullet is that it you a faster twist in the barrel for it to be accurate. I don't know what the USGI twist is, but it's probably not 1x8". That's the minimum that Sierra recommends for its 77 grain Matchking bullets.

Yep :mad: . All of Nato and most everyone else not using the 7.62x39 is using 5.56mm weapons. Changing over to 6.8 would mean NATO following suite too.

Heck, There was once this lady in Illinois that was shot 15 times by her pyscho husband (who had an Ar15) and she was still able to run a mile and a half to get help. YES, a TRUE story. The officer referred to it as an "assault rifle" though. Moron. (He graduated from the same college I went to too).

lmfao

"He who joyfully marches to music rank and file, has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice. This disgrace to civilization should be done away with at once. Heroism at command, how violently I hate all this; I would rather be torn to shreds than to be part of so base an action. It is my conviction that killing under the cloak of war is no different than murder." Albert Einstein.

If that had been so the Iraqis would have sent us Reeling to the Saudi border. Since that didn't happen, I'm guessing the US military is run by qualified and able individuals.
Wanna bet that I could've won the war too? At some point the difference in equipment, training and morale becomes so great that it really is little more than ticking off a list.

And if the US Military was any good, they would not have gone along with the idea of using so few troops. And if they had done that, they would not be sitting there getting their butts blown off now.

Wanna bet that I could've won the war too? At some point the difference in equipment, training and morale becomes so great that it really is little more than ticking off a list.

And if the US Military was any good, they would not have gone along with the idea of using so few troops. And if they had done that, they would not be sitting there getting their butts blown off now.

No, they bitched about it. The Administration didn't listen, that's all. Well, they did. Otherwise they couldn't have called those who bitched 'anti-American', 'unpatriotic', ad nauseum.

No, they bitched about it. The Administration didn't listen, that's all. Well, they did. Otherwise they couldn't have called those who bitched 'anti-American', 'unpatriotic', ad nauseum.
And those that did open their mouth shut it after a while. Ultimately those in the military who supported Rummy's idiocy won out - thus making them the people whose orders on is supposed to follow.
Which is stupid.

Wanna bet that I could've won the war too? At some point the difference in equipment, training and morale becomes so great that it really is little more than ticking off a list.

And if the US Military was any good, they would not have gone along with the idea of using so few troops. And if they had done that, they would not be sitting there getting their butts blown off now.

The fact we kick Saddam's ass using so few troops-that says what?

Kick ass and Take names, yep.

And those that did open their mouth shut it after a while. Ultimately those in the military who supported Rummy's idiocy won out - thus making them the people whose orders on is supposed to follow.
Which is stupid.

Keep in mind the fact that those accusations of treason were flying around when people actually took such rumblings from the Administration seriously.

However, now we've run into another problem: The Administration doesn't want to up the troop deployment (where would we get them!?) and thereby admitting that it was wrong about something. And the Opposition doesn't want to up troop deployments because they're against the war, period, and saying that we need more would be construed as being pro-Bushevism.

The fact we kick Saddam's ass using so few troops-that says what?
That you spent more money on your military than Saddam?

That you spent more money on your military than Saddam?

Buuurn!

That you spent more money on your military than Saddam?

No, it's the fact that the people who run our military are more competent, motivated, led, trained, financed, armed, and raised. Money does not make the military-the Men do. An expert rifleman behind a 50's vintage Kalashnikov with a shot out barrel is more dangerous than a draftee with a brand-new G36. It is the man behind the trigger-not the money or equipment.

Oh yeah, the atmosphere of freedom in America compared to Pre-OIF iraq is much better.

My Great Grandfather, Grand Father, and Father all served in the military. All were smart, competent, and motivated men. When I take the oath, I will be no different than them. I will say that oath not because I am being forced, goaded, prodded, and put under pressure. I would do so out of my own free will.....

Can't say so for most of the Iraqis. Hell, we tore their RNG to peices.....

No, it's the fact that the people who run our military are more competent, motivated, led, trained, financed, armed, and raised. Money does not make the military-the Men do. An expert rifleman behind a 50's vintage Kalashnikov with a shot out barrel is more dangerous than a draftee with a brand-new G36. It is the man behind the trigger-not the money or equipment.

Oh yeah, the atmosphere of freedom in America compared to Pre-OIF iraq is much better.

My Great Grandfather, Grand Father, and Father all served in the military. All were smart, competent, and motivated men. When I take the oath, I will be no different than them. I will say that oath not because I am being forced, goaded, prodded, and put under pressure. I would do so out of my own free will.....

Can't say so for most of the Iraqis. Hell, we tore their RNG to peices.....

Um, you realise the war in Iraq is still on don't you?

And arguing using abstract emotive terms like "freedom" in a debate is useless. What is freedom? Is freedom the Patriot Act? Is freedom voting for politicians who are unaccountable once elected?

Pfft.

Good luck with Bootcamp! And try to enjoy it, it's a once in a lifetime experience. Can't wait for my time to come, I'm trying out for AFROTC when I get to Uni.

Ehehe, looks like all that training pays off :D
.

So, whether something is an assault rifle isn't related to things like whether it has a pistol grip, detachable box magazine, bayonet lug, and those kinds of things? Maybe I'm thinking of a law peculariar to some state or something.

I honestly do recall seeing some law that a weapon didn't have to have a full-auto mode to be considered an "assault rifle" (although many of the guns labeled "assault rifle" were basically semi-auto clones of prominent full-auto weapons).

No, it's the fact that the people who run our military are more competent, motivated, led, trained, financed, armed, and raised. Money does not make the military-the Men do. An expert rifleman behind a 50's vintage Kalashnikov with a shot out barrel is more dangerous than a draftee with a brand-new G36. It is the man behind the trigger-not the money or equipment.

For your analogy to have properly related reality, it would have been a comparison between an expert rifleman with a Kalashnikov and a draftee with a M-1 Abrhams. And I think that, no matter how skilled the rifleman, the draftee is still more deadly. Sometimes money and equipment can win out. A sort of technological attrition.

Good luck on Your new path of life mate!
Becoming a soldier is a very noble thing to do, the world needs more people like You!
To all of those who criticize Your choice I've found this poem.

It is the soldier, not the reporter, who has given us freedom of the press.
It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us freedom of speech.
It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, who has given us the freedom to demonstrate.
It is the soldier, not the lawyer, who has given us the right to a fair trial.
It is the soldier who salutes the flag, who serves under the flag, and whose coffin is draped by the flag, who allows the protester to burn the flag.

Great stuff!

It is? Explain that please - and why "patriotism" is the only way to do it. Because the only way I can see it is about "helping other people" is the way racism is about "helping other people". Those "other people" being your own race of course.
Sounds like you're confusing patriotism with nationalism (which is not constructive). You don't have to be a soldier to be patriotic. I regard good teachers and doctors (well, those who don't shut themselves off to all but the very rich) as patriotic also. Their occupation causes them to improve the lives of many people. The same can often be said for soldiers also.

Why? I agree, but I am wondering if you can actually provide a supporting argumentation which is based on objectivity instead of your personal morals.
Because women are suffering. Just because they have the bad luck to be born into a backwards, conservative society, doesn't mean that they deserve to get a ripped up vulva or to get murdered for being raped.

I am noticing a sharp divide on the left between the cultural relativist wing, such as yourself, and the pro-gender equality wing, or as I like to call it, the left wing of the left wing (i.e. the side that still believes in equality). I'm sure you can guess which side I am on.

Honour killings are one of the most disgusting things on earth. Tolerating them is as bad as supporting them. Men are not better than women; patriarchs shouldn't have such strong control over others. People are equal.

Peace comes after the army leaves, not while it's there.
But without the army there in the first place, there will be no peace. QED.

If this means what I think it means, then you are absolutely and totally disgusting. And I'm not kidding either.
Yeah, didn't he say "don't have sex before you get married"?

He who joyfully marches to music rank and file, has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice. This disgrace to civilization should be done away with at once. Heroism at command, how violently I hate all this; I would rather be torn to shreds than to be part of so base an action. It is my conviction that killing under the cloak of war is no different than murder.
But often through killing it is possible to save more lives than you take. A contemporary example is World War II. The Allies killed a lot of people, many of them innocent, but without them, many more people would have died before the war was over.

If we're throwing around quotes from the 1930s and 1940s, I'll give you a few here:

Since pacifists have more freedom of action in countries where traces of democracy survive, pacifism can act more effectively against democracy than for it. Objectively the pacifist is pro-Nazi.
Pacifist propaganda usually boils down to saying that one side is as bad as the other, but if one looks closely at the writing of the younger intellectual pacifists, one finds that they do not by any means express impartial disapproval but are directed almost entirely against Britain and the United States.
We sleep peaceably in our beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on our behalf. [paraphrase*]

*There is no evidence that Orwell ever wrote or uttered either of these versions of this idea. They do bear some similarity to comments made in an essay that Orwell wrote on Rudyard Kipling, when quoting from one of his poems.
"Yes, making mock o' uniforms that guard you while you sleep" - Rudyard Kipling (Tommy)

But often through killing it is possible to save more lives than you take. A contemporary example is World War II. The Allies killed a lot of people, many of them innocent, but without them, many more people would have died before the war was over.
Which one could call a Godwin right here. Not that I would do such a thing.

The point is that the decision whether or not a given killing will save lives is usually impossible. Only in the gravest of circumstances, facing the most horrible of enemies can one with any certainty take a path of killing people.

And even in WWII, that decision was taken too quickly. Thousands and thousands of Polish, British and German civilians were killed because at some point someone decided that it would be worth it - and it wasn't.

And regardless even of the reasons, Einstein's quote stands - those who sign their own brains away by joining an organisation which actively seeks to destroy the individual judgement of the solder, those don't deserve respect. I'm being nice when I say that I merely tolerate, and that goes for him, for my grandfather (wounded in Stalingrad) and even myself, should it come to the point where I have to do my 9 months of service in Germany.

So, whether something is an assault rifle isn't related to things like whether it has a pistol grip, detachable box magazine, bayonet lug, and those kinds of things? Maybe I'm thinking of a law peculariar to some state or something.

I honestly do recall seeing some law that a weapon didn't have to have a full-auto mode to be considered an "assault rifle" (although many of the guns labeled "assault rifle" were basically semi-auto clones of prominent full-auto weapons).

Assault weapon ban. Stupid law that was enacted in 1994 that said if a semi-auto rfle had more than 2 EVIL features, it was an "assault weapon". It died on September 14th, 2004 so we don't worry about it anymore. :D .

An assault rifle must have a Full-auto switch to be an assault rifle.


For your analogy to have properly related reality, it would have been a comparison between an expert rifleman with a Kalashnikov and a draftee with a M-1 Abrhams. And I think that, no matter how skilled the rifleman, the draftee is still more deadly. Sometimes money and equipment can win out. A sort of technological attrition.

The expert rifleman would still win out. A tank can't go where the infantry can, an is sort of limited in the way it can engage. The only way to defeat enemy 'boots' is to have 'boots' of you own there on the ground.

http://img494.imageshack.us/img494/9673/theodoreroosevelt1je.gif

http://img494.imageshack.us/img494/9673/theodoreroosevelt1je.gif
Like anyone gives a crap what a dead president has to say in the here and now.

-snip-
lol
Sucks to be you.

Like anyone gives a crap what a dead president has to say in the here and now.

What is happening today has happened in the past-Humanity goes through cycles. Peace, prosperity, War, peace, Prosperity, war. World war 1. Peace. World War 2. Peace. Korea. Peace. Vietnam. Peace. GF1....

Like anyone gives a crap what a dead president has to say in the here and now.

What is happening today has happened in the past-Humanity goes through cycles. Peace, prosperity, War, peace, Prosperity, war. World war 1. Peace. World War 2. Peace. Korea. Peace. Vietnam. Peace. GF1....

I'd say be careful, but it's a known fact that if you hesitate in war you will lose.

Good luck soldier. Keep your head down when the guns start firing.

What is happening today has happened in the past-Humanity goes through cycles. Peace, prosperity, War, peace, Prosperity, war. World war 1. Peace. World War 2. Peace. Korea. Peace. Vietnam. Peace. GF1....
Note the lack of cyclical characteristics. Also note that there are many different reasons for going to war, an aspect I already adressed in my post.

And finally...since when do I care about dead American Presidents to tell me what to do?

How about this:
Whosoever shall be guilty of rape, polygamy, or sodomy with a man or woman, shall be punished; if a man, by castration, a woman, by boring through the cartilage of her nose a hole of one half inch in diameter at the least.

I salute you, Arkanaland. Best of luck to you in whatever line of work you find yourself in.

Note the lack of cyclical characteristics. Also note that there are many different reasons for going to war, an aspect I already adressed in my post.

And finally...since when do I care about dead American Presidents to tell me what to do?

How about this:

What's wrong with the qoute?

What's wrong with the qoute?
Depends on your predisposition I guess.

But giving cheating wives free nose piercings isn't exactly with the times anymore. And neither is accusing pacifists of treachery.

Depends on your predisposition I guess.

But giving cheating wives free nose piercings isn't exactly with the times anymore. And neither is accusing pacifists of treachery.

I'd sure like cheating spouses to get their noses pierced. Hell, stone them.

i dont know if anyones posted this yet, but...

The Old Lie: Dulce Et Decorum Est Pro Patria Mori.

i hope you dont kill anyone or get killed.

Good luck, and have fun at Fort Lost-In-The-Woods.

Joining should be a hard decision. It's a life-changing moment that will affect the rest of your life. Enlisting during a conflict is even harder, as the reality of the job is that much more apparant.

So good for you for deciding to serve, for whatever reason.

Some advice. Start doing push-ups and running now. Get a head start on your Basic requirements. Work with your recruiter to make sure that you have everything in order before your reporting date. Once in Basic, keep your mouth shut and your ears and eyes open. Remember, the Drills are not sadists out to get you. They are there to turn you into a soldier.

I spent 21 years in the Army, and had some amazing times. So from an old First Sergeant (you'll get to my my fellow Tops as the right hand of God) welcome to the Big Olive Drab Machine!

P.S. Never Ever let anyone talk you into giving them just a little bit of CS! It will always come right back to you and frankly they can always get what they want off the floor of the NBC chamber. ;)

Spoilsport.

(Fondly remembering throwing CS grenades into the Victory Drive dive that had robbed a fellow Ranger back in 1985...)

I would only join the Army if it was certain I could be a tank crewman. That would be such a sick job.

Well, we do guarantee MOS assignments. You could be a 19-series if you like (assuming you're male. Armor crewman is a combat job.)

But, like many things, it's not all you think it is. Tankers spend most of their time just keeping their beasts running. Every tanker I know has a horror story involving hydraulic fluid, engine mounts slipping, or having to repair a broken track in knee-deep mud.

congrats on joining

good luck paul

just hope Hillary doesnt become your commander in cheif

I respect your desicion, and wish you luck.

Which one could call a Godwin right here. Not that I would do such a thing.
It's not a Godwin unless I actually mention the name of, and compare contemporary figures to Germany's ruling party from 1933-45.

You are the most over-sensitive killjoy on this forum! If I laugh at a looter I'm a racist, if I support women's rights I'm intolerant, and if I engage in a historical discussion then I'm a troll! :rolleyes:

I would disregard your post at this point, but since I believe in debating the point rather than attacking credibility, I will answer your post later.

It’s definitely an interesting choice of fields to go into. If you ever get a chance to rub elbows with the Czechs, they have the best chemical decontamination units in the world. It’s one thing those guys really know how to do over there.

You’re role sounds a lot like specialized engineer. I think the most valuable quality you can hone for jobs like that (or any) is a lack of flinchiness. Don’t be flinchy. Relax when dealing with dangerous, unpleasant substances (mines, etc). Flinchy, nervous people who deal with this kind of stuff never do well in their units and get relegated into handing out crayons in stores. Project a lot of confidence, lean forward into whatever job you take on, and never whine about anything (especially when you want to). And try to get as many taskings overseas as you can (not just Iraq). Learn some appropriate languages for your taskings if you can. There’s no point being in the military if you never get to do any traveling.

The Bruce

You are the most over-sensitive killjoy on this forum!
I'm having a rough time at the moment, and besides, I don't think I'm nearly good enough to rival Fass just yet.
Sorry though.

If I laugh at a looter I'm a racist, if I support women's rights I'm intolerant, and if I engage in a historical discussion then I'm a troll! :rolleyes:
I said something about women's rights? And when did I call you a troll?
And as for the looter thing, I had the wrong impression of ARF. If you had seen the previous examples of his ramblings, you would understand the conclusion I came to.
I was wrong, I admitted that - it's merely PJ who seems to be desperate to pick a fight about a non-issue.

To me the idea behind the Godwin-type argument is an appeal to the emotional reaction to the Nazis. Because the Nazis are generally regarded as an absolute evil (not that you would hear me disagree on anything but semantics), everything that is compared to the Nazis automatically also gets branded evil.
And the same sort of emotional connection is being invoked by focussing on WWII in a case against pacifism. Had pacifist prevailed, there wouldn't even have been a war in the first place.
There is not really a principal difference between opposing one war and opposing another - in both cases it is an argument to keep suffering and death to an absolute minimum, regardless of who the enemy is today.

I would disregard your post at this point, but since I believe in debating the point rather than attacking credibility, I will answer your post later.
Thanks.

All I can say to you is that, try learning Arabic language and buy an updated Iraqi map (just in case). I hope your commanders don't put you in a stressful situation where you have to execute a mission you might not like.

About two weeks ago, I was sworn in. It was a hard decision, but one I will likely not regret. I put down all of my reservations against the war, against Bush, and in some ways - against my own fears. I weighed the possible pitfalls against the gains, and when I raised my right hand, that was it.

Army.

One might look to me and see a fool, as I am a young Democrat, against the war in Iraq (yet I look at it with atleast some optimism), against Bush...he's a disgrace to true Oil Men and Texans alike. But, I swore allegience, and to be honest, it's not that bad. In my OU Pajama-pants and stained white T-shirt, I'm much like the majority of folks whom dislike the current affairs in Government. Yet truly, when I put on my Uniform, it won't matter to me. There comes a time in every Man's (and Woman's) life when they have to own up to something quite undescribable at the time. When an inner-awakening beckons them to a thresh hold that may not have been crossed otherwise.

All of those who look upon the Uniformed as misguided, idiotic, etc., etc., don't pity us...we don't pity you.

I ship out on the for Basic on the 18th, My MOS is as a Chemical Operations Specialist...boot camp and AIT at Ft. LostInTheWoods, MO.

I'm kind of nervous, and I don't really know if I'll have a Girlfriend when I get back, and I know I won't be the same. But I suppose that's a cross everyone must bear one day or another...one moment you're gliding, the next, you're watching your world fall around you...and afterwards, you're looking at your old self of yesteryear through the eyes of who you are today.

No matter your Political Affiliations, wish me luck, please.

Paul R.Best of luck to you! The military offers amazing benefits and you'll get experience that you can't find anywhere else. On top of that if you decide to get out at some point then employers love to hire former military members (most employers do anyway). :)

Good luck.....











































































































































































































you should've joined the Marines though :D