NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/12/30/nsa.leak/index.html

The Justice Department is now investigating who leaked the NSA story.

As I recall, that sort of thing is a felony.

Whistleblowing is a crime? I toast a thousand industrial accidents in your name. :rolleyes:

We had a similar thing here in the UK when a GCHQ woman blew the lid on CIA/MI6 wiretaps of UN delegates during the voting on SC Resolution 1441. The courts couldn't touch her, because her breach of protocol revealed a greater crime.

Is it still a felony if you expose the government doing something illegal? It seems to me that there should be an exception made for whistleblowers.

If there's any justice in the Justice department, the leakers will be protected as whistleblowers. I don't expect that to happen, mind you, but that's my thinking on it.

I bet there will be an indictment on who leaked long before there's one on the nature of the surveillance.

I bet there will be an indictment on who leaked long before there's one on the nature of the surveillance.
I don't expect there will ever be an indictment on the nature of the surveillance--who's going to investigate? The AG? He signed off on the damn thing. Which is why I have no hope for the protection of the leakers.

If there's any justice in the Justice department, the leakers will be protected as whistleblowers. I don't expect that to happen, mind you, but that's my thinking on it.

In the Halls of Justice the only justice is in the halls.
That doesn't really contribute, just came to mind while I read it.

I bet there will be an indictment on who leaked long before there's one on the nature of the surveillance.
Which is a shame really, because any security apparatus is worthless if there are no internal checks and balances. Take the air monitoring story, according to CNN a few days ago, those who voiced concerns internally, were threatened with losing their jobs. If you see your superiors breaking the law and there is no functioning internal mechanism to report it, hell yeah you go public.

Otherwise, if you let enough stuff slide, who is to say on whose behalf those agencies end up working for?

http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/12/30/nsa.leak/index.html

The Justice Department is now investigating who leaked the NSA story.

As I recall, that sort of thing is a felony.
Now you guys care about that kind of thing...

i am glad we have patriots working for the government who are willing to risk prison to bring these kinds of abuses to light.

i am glad we have patriots working for the government who are willing to risk prison to bring these kinds of abuses to light.

...or spies working for their own purposes willing to risk prison to disclose previously classified secret operations designated as vital to National Security no doubt.

...or spies working for their own purposes willing to risk prison to disclose previously classified secret operations designated as vital to National Security no doubt.
I don't give two shits about their motivations--if there's warrantless spying of US citizens being done by the US government in violation of the law, then I fucking well want to know about it.

...or spies working for their own purposes willing to risk prison to disclose previously classified secret operations designated as vital to National Security no doubt.
It works both ways. If everyone in an organisation is expected to switch off their brains and let all the weird stuff pass without comment, before you know it, the place is full of communists. As many an intelligence agency discovered during the Cold War.

The challenges are the same today, if people start doing strange stuff and internal reporting is discouraged, you have no idea for whom you are really working. Quite possibly against the interests of your country.

If you can't raise a question without having your job security threatened, the rot has spread far enough through the culture for a loud reality check. In the longer term, they're doing the organisation a favour.

So, how come you didn't care about who leaked Valerie Plame's identity (disclosing a CIA agent's identity is a felony too), but you care about who exposed Bush's continuing bullshit?

Both are a threat to national security. So why don't people worry about the former? Is it because Plame's husband is a Democrat? Why am I not surprised.

Rules and laws are easy to follow as long as you selectively ignore some.

So, how come you didn't care about who leaked Valerie Plame's identity (disclosing a CIA agent's identity is a felony too), but you care about who exposed Bush's continuing bullshit?

Both are a threat to national security. So why don't people worry about the former? Is it because Plame's husband is a Democrat? Why am I not surprised.

I would care more about Plame's identity being leaked if it disclosed an active operation, which I highly doubt, since she hasn't been working overseas for years.

If she was such a hot agent, why did they send her husband? He's not even a CIA agent.

...or spies working for their own purposes willing to risk prison to disclose previously classified secret operations designated as vital to National Security no doubt.
maybe so. but any spy giving his info away is too stupid to keep in the gene pool let alone the spy world. good thing he'll end up in prison eh?

I would care more about Plame's identity being leaked if it disclosed an active operation, which I highly doubt, since she hasn't been working overseas for years.
This is besides the point. Her identity was revealed without authorisation, which is a felony charge. Now, please: Why isn't anyone pursuing this case further?

This is besides the point. Her identity was revealed without authorisation, which is a felony charge. Now, please: Why isn't anyone pursuing this case further?
I believe there's already a grand jury working on it. Guess you must have missed all the news about Fitzgerald.

maybe so. but any spy giving his info away is too stupid to keep in the gene pool let alone the spy world. good thing he'll end up in prison eh?

Actually we really have no idea as of yet what the circumstances are and could possibly never know, but from my recollection spies that get caught are usually the dim bulbs of the lot. Even the village idiot can outsmart a breaucratic agency nine times out of ten.

"all that is required for evil to triumph is that good men do nothing" &c.

...or spies working for their own purposes willing to risk prison to disclose previously classified secret operations designated as vital to National Security no doubt.
Spies. You make me laugh. Do you know what country you live in? The president of the United States is not -- repeat, NOT -- above the law. He is neither king nor dictator. He doesn't make the law, and he doesn't get to decide which ones he feels like following. His job is to uphold the law, enforce the law, and above all, OBEY the law, just like the rest of us. If he does not obey it, then he is breaking it, and that is a crime. Period. The whistleblowers who exposed this NSA story are patriots. They did the right thing. Bush is wrong, and so are you, because neither one of you understands what an American president is.

It works both ways. If everyone in an organisation is expected to switch off their brains and let all the weird stuff pass without comment, before you know it, the place is full of communists. As many an intelligence agency discovered during the Cold War.

The challenges are the same today, if people start doing strange stuff and internal reporting is discouraged, you have no idea for whom you are really working. Quite possibly against the interests of your country.

If you can't raise a question without having your job security threatened, the rot has spread far enough through the culture for a loud reality check. In the longer term, they're doing the organisation a favour.
Excellent point. Checks and balances, bureaucratic paper trails, judicial reviews, all of these improve security by filtering for infiltration by spies and corrupt officials. The more eyes look at a thing, the harder it is to sneak crap through.

Spies. You make me laugh. Do you know what country you live in? The president of the United States is not -- repeat, NOT -- above the law. He is neither king nor dictator. He doesn't make the law, and he doesn't get to decide which ones he feels like following. His job is to uphold the law, enforce the law, and above all, OBEY the law, just like the rest of us. If he does not obey it, then he is breaking it, and that is a crime. Period. The whistleblowers who exposed this NSA story are patriots. They did the right thing. Bush is wrong, and so are you, because neither one of you understands what an American president is.

Unfortunately as you can see, Bushevism is a Cult of Personality, no different from the poor masses who worship Kim Jong-Il up in North Korea. And Comrade Bushevik posts again, just to try and compare this whistleblowing to the Plame exposure.

I would care more about Plame's identity being leaked if it disclosed an active operation, which I highly doubt, since she hasn't been working overseas for years.

If she was such a hot agent, why did they send her husband? He's not even a CIA agent.
You can't equate the Plame outing with the NSA leak. The first was not whistleblowing--it was a partisan attack that damaged national security. The second outed an illegal program signed off on by the President and the Attorney General.

Unfortunately as you can see, Bushevism is a Cult of Personality, no different from the poor masses who worship Kim Jong-Il up in North Korea. And Comrade Bushevik posts again, just to try and compare this whistleblowing to the Plame exposure.
It's the -- incomprehensible -- truth. I just don't understand why they love him so. I mean, why him, particularly, over all others? Tom Cruise worship makes more sense to me, and it doesn't make any sense. :headbang: <sigh> Whatever. :rolleyes:

If there's any justice in the Justice department, the leakers will be protected as whistleblowers. I don't expect that to happen, mind you, but that's my thinking on it.
Military justice is to justice what military music is to music - Groucho Marx

I would care more about Plame's identity being leaked if it disclosed an active operation, which I highly doubt, since she hasn't been working overseas for years.

If she was such a hot agent, why did they send her husband? He's not even a CIA agent.

Bullpucky. YOU DON'T KNOW that she hasn't been overseas for years. All you know is that she spent some time "pushing a pencil." As a NOC who specialized in WMD, IF SHE HAD GONE OVERSEAS, it would still be classified EVEN WITH HER COVER BLOWN. You're buying obvious propaganda here, Kimchi.

As for why they sent a former Ambassador to Niger and Iraq (called a hero by George HW Bush, I might add,) on a DIPLOMATIC FACT-FINDING mission to MEET OPENLY with Nigerian PUBLIC officials concerning Iraq...gee, I don't know. You're right, an undercover CIA agent would be better for something like that...:rolleyes: