NationStates Jolt Archive

I thought those days were over...but I've been reading these reviews for hotels we are considering in Cuba, and I swear...all the bad reviews include "the staff didn't understand much English" as one of the main reasons the people didn't enjoy their stay. Come on now! What do you expect? Sure, some of them will understand more English than others, but should it be a requirement? When there are travellers from all over the world who speak French, German, Italian or whatever...should everyone expect the staff to be quadrilingual in order to make your stay pleasant? I don't understand...what are your thoughts? Would language make or break your holiday?

Well we did make such an effort to civilise them, it is only right for the natives to speak the language. :rolleyes:

Nah, I would take a phrasebook, and ask if they speak English before deploying it.

no, but i'll tell you what really winds me up, when you go to non-english countries, and talk in their language perfectly well and yet they insist on replying in English, it's quite patronising

Well we did make such an effort to civilise them, it is only right for the natives to speak the language. :rolleyes:

Nah, I would take a phrasebook, and ask if they speak English before deploying it.
hahahaha...nothing worse than stumbling through a Thai phrase only to hear, "sorry...what are you trying to say?":D

Then again, most people are very happy if you make the attempt...and just like we'll forgive children pronouncing tooth like 'toof', they'll usually give us leeway with our terrible pronunciation and grammar:)

Actually, I kind of expect them to be able to speak German. Lots of German tourists around. Very profitable to speak German...

hahahaha...nothing worse than stumbling through a Thai phrase only to hear, "sorry...what are you trying to say?" :D
Yep. Always a good idea to avoid unnecessary embarrassment. :p

no, but i'll tell you what really winds me up, when you go to non-english countries, and talk in their language perfectly well and yet they insist on replying in English, it's quite patronising
Yes...I haven't had that happen often, but I've heard the same complaint from others. I would find it a bit offensive, depending on the situation of course...if it's something that needs to be crystal clear...like why you have a pound of opium in your luggage...English would be fine:D

Strangely enough, I have always sorta expected people to speak very basic English when I went to Spain and China (the only places I have really tried to communicate with people).

Not all that much success, but I guess I expect people to remember what they learn at school.
This is by the way not a value judgement, but just the hope to use English as lingua franca - they don't speak German, I don't speak Spanish, so we both use English.

Absolutely, if I take the trouble and time out of my schedule I expect them to speak English to me, how dare they not speak it to me.

Actually I do take a phrase book and ask if they speak English in their own language first.

Yep. Always a good idea to avoid unnecessary embarrassment. :p
Like when they tell you that in your attempt to ask where the bathroom was, you instead inquired as to the price for the sexual favours of a goat? Yes. Nice to avoid that!

no, but i'll tell you what really winds me up, when you go to non-english countries, and talk in their language perfectly well and yet they insist on replying in English, it's quite patronising

Is it patronising or the desire to practice?

I thought those days were over...but I've been reading these reviews for hotels we are considering in Cuba, and I swear...all the bad reviews include "the staff didn't understand much English" as one of the main reasons the people didn't enjoy their stay. Come on now! What do you expect? Sure, some of them will understand more English than others, but should it be a requirement? When there are travellers from all over the world who speak French, German, Italian or whatever...should everyone expect the staff to be quadrilingual in order to make your stay pleasant? I don't understand...what are your thoughts? Would language make or break your holiday?
Worst stay in a hotel I have ever had was in a little Japanese town. None of the staff spoke English, I didn't speak Japanese. This was a business trip, so we had a host that spoke English, or we would not have been there.

So to answer your question, yes, the staff should speak English for _my_ stay to be pleasant. Not a lot, just enough to communicate things like new towels, more liquor and other hotel-type requests. And yes, I will only choose hotels that have that capability.

On the other hand, day trips away from the hotel can be fun and I won't ever let my lack of language keep me from enjoying myself. On that same trip to Japan, I was wandering around one evening and ended up drinking with some Japanese man. Neither of us understood the other, but we had a great time buying each other drinks.

And yes, I do try to learn a few polite phrases. I gave up trying to learn informational ones because I usually got lost in trying to understand the answer. "Where is the train station?" is a fine question, but when the answer isn't "Right across the street" with the appropriate pointing and pushing, it's too hard.

I'd try to learn, at least, a few phrases of the native language. I think its really unrealistic and arrogant to expect other people to learn your language just because you don't want to learn theirs.

no, but i'll tell you what really winds me up, when you go to non-english countries, and talk in their language perfectly well and yet they insist on replying in English, it's quite patronising
i had that happen in montreal. i must have an american accent because they all said dont bother speaking french, they were fine with english. does that happen to anglocanadians??

so were these canadians griping about no english in cuba? its NICE when the hotel desk people speak english but why would anyone expect it? i make sure i at least know the proper hotel and restaurant phrases so i can get into my room and get a bite to eat.

Like when they tell you that in your attempt to ask where the bathroom was, you instead inquired as to the price for the sexual favours of a goat? Yes. Nice to avoid that!
I find the easiest mistake is trying to order a pot of coffee in a German restaurant, and ordering a rabbit of coffee instead.

Is it patronising or the desire to practice?
it's patronising, they always give you that look that says 'don't bother i speak English better than you speak spanish'

it's patronising, they always give you that look that says 'don't bother i speak English better than you speak spanish'
Could I ask what country you've gone to that you received this treatment? Because I have a suspicion based on other traveller's accounts...but I don't want to spread an unecessary stereotype...without backup:)

hahahaha...nothing worse than stumbling through a Thai phrase only to hear, "sorry...what are you trying to say?":D

Then again, most people are very happy if you make the attempt...and just like we'll forgive children pronouncing tooth like 'toof', they'll usually give us leeway with our terrible pronunciation and grammar:)

after so many years of hearing foreign speakers butcher english, i realized that it doesnt matter if i do the same thing in another language. they are likely to understand me even if my pronunciation is off and my grammar sucks.

besides what more do you need to know besides "bathroom" and "beer"?

Could I ask what country you've gone to that you received this treatment? Because I have a suspicion based on other traveller's accounts...but I don't want to spread an unecessary stereotype...without backup:)
Spain

Is it patronising or the desire to practice?

Actually, I think it's politeness. I've caught myself doing it several times - like when tourists ask me something in rather broken German I mostly reply in English, just to make it easier for them. I mean, what's the point in standing there and making them frantically search for the right words and not find them when I can just as well let them speak English? At the same time, I do realize that on the receiving end it can be pretty patronizing. I guess I wouldn't do it with someone who spoke the language pretty well, because then it would really feel like I was pointing out that his efforts somehow weren't good enough.

I think it depends on where I would go...if I go to some small town in Thailand, no way in hell do I expect them to speak English, and I would be looney to expect them to. However, if all indications point to people being able to speak English in some places (some major cities, for example), then I will be completely dumbfounded when they don't. That doesn't mean I am going to demand that they speak English if they want my money, but I might not be burying my nose in a book of foreign phrases as intently if I think they speak English.

So, in summary: Tokyo = probably speak English, though prepared to speak Japanese
Bumblefuck, Turkey = bury my nose in a Bumblefuckese-to-English dictionary

I find the easiest mistake is trying to order a pot of coffee in a German restaurant, and ordering a rabbit of coffee instead.
:confused:

Kanne, Kännchen and Kaninchen? How do you manage to confuse those?

besides what more do you need to know besides "bathroom" and "beer"?"please do not injure me"
"how far is it to the border?"
"I did not mean to offend you"

No, I don't expect them to speak English, but it certainly helps me if they do.

I don't at all expect them to speak English and I owuld much prefer to try out their language myself. However, when I went to Montreal this past summer, I was thinking subconciously: "Why the hell is everything written in French? This is Canada, no?" Being stuck in the States my whole life has sort of made me think everything is supposed to be in English.

Now my dad on the other hand could not comprehend why waiters and such could not speak English. "This is a bilingual country." Well Quebec doesn't care.

"please do not injure me"
"how far is it to the border?"
"I did not mean to offend you"
"cuado dije que tu hermana es caliente, queria decir que ella tiene calor! Te lo juro!"

"please do not injure me"
"how far is it to the border?"
"I did not mean to offend you"
"that shirt looks ver becoming on you, then again if i was on you i'd be cumming"
"do you believe in love at forst sight or should i walk by again?"

"cuado dije que tu hermana es caliente, queria decir que ella tiene calor! Te lo juro!"Ich hab' Ferien =P

Ive only been to Australia and New Munster and in both cases they didnt speak proper english.

I'm just surprised is all, that these reviews center so heavily around language. Generally, the people writing who didn't speak Spanish described the staff as rude, and uncaring...but the ones who spoke even a little were glowing in their descriptions. So...are these non-speakers really being treated like dirt, or are they jerks who deserve it...or are they just assuming that not speaking English = rudeness? I wonder.

This serves to underscore the value of knowing at least one language other than your native tongue. Not that you necessarily need to excel at a foreign language, but knowing basics such as, 'where is the _____?' (toilet, exit, parking lot, beach, etc.) 'how much for _____?' (fruit, beer, pop, toilet paper, tanning lotion, etc) as well as 'thank-you', 'please', 'yes' and 'no' are sure to make any vacation in a non-English speaking country more pleasant, both for the tourist and for the people tourists interact with.

Not to quibble unduly, but only a crass buffoon would expect 'star treatment' without knowing a word of the local lingo.

Ive only been to Australia and New Munster and in both cases they didnt speak proper english.
:D I was waiting for something like this...I was sure it'd be said eventually!:p

My worst vacation in that regard was a trip to Bolivia (the trip was great, but the language part sucked). I was visiting a friend on very short notice and I didn't know any Spanish except the usual few basic words and numbers, and there wasn't enough time to learn it.

I hated it. Hated it. I felt so ignorant and disrespectful. Just like the typical "ugly" tourists I normally despise.


Then again, I was in Poland for a few days this year, and besides "Thank you" and maybe a couple of other words I didn't know any Polish. For some reason, that didn't seem so bad. Maybe because Polish is a much more obscure language than Spanish, so people can't really expect every tourist to know their language.

I thought those days were over...but I've been reading these reviews for hotels we are considering in Cuba, and I swear...all the bad reviews include "the staff didn't understand much English" as one of the main reasons the people didn't enjoy their stay. Come on now! What do you expect? Sure, some of them will understand more English than others, but should it be a requirement? When there are travellers from all over the world who speak French, German, Italian or whatever...should everyone expect the staff to be quadrilingual in order to make your stay pleasant? I don't understand...what are your thoughts? Would language make or break your holiday?

English is the universal language (good example is Nationstates, how many ppl are from non-english speaking countries, yet speak/type it here)

So yes, if i go to a real touristy part of a non-english speaking country, i expect them to speak enough english to communicate with me.

This serves to underscore the value of knowing at least one language other than your native tongue. Not that you necessarily need to excel at a foreign language, but knowing basics such as, 'where is the _____?' (toilet, exit, parking lot, beach, etc.) 'how much for _____?' (fruit, beer, pop, toilet paper, tanning lotion, etc) as well as 'thank-you', 'please', 'yes' and 'no' are sure to make any vacation in a non-English speaking country more pleasant, both for the tourist and for the people tourists interact with.

Not to quibble unduly, but only a crass buffoon would expect 'star treatment' without knowing a word of the local lingo. I agree with the learning at least a second language bit...if only so you feel more comfortable travelling. Having learned Spanish means I have many more options in terms of travelling and feeling not too horribly out of place. That doesn't mean I'd never go to China, or somewhere where I'd probably have not the faintest set of phrases ready...but I tend to seek out Spanish countries because of my fluency. And it's not as if learning a second language is all that hard...hell...physics is tougher:)

No. However, I'm sure they'll understand me if I speak LOUDLY and slooooowly.

My worst vacation in that regard was a trip to Bolivia (the trip was great, but the language part sucked). I was visiting a friend on very short notice and I didn't know any Spanish except the usual few basic words and numbers, and there wasn't enough time to learn it.

I hated it. Hated it. I felt so ignorant and disrespectful. Just like the typical "ugly" tourists I normally despise. Hell, I went to Peru and ended up in a Quecha village, where Spanish did me absolutely no good:) Still, the people were good, and we managed to make ourselves understood anyway.

:D I was waiting for something like this...I was sure it'd be said eventually!:p
If it is left up to me to say something you know we've got problems.

I agree with the learning at least a second language bit...if only so you feel more comfortable travelling. Having learned Spanish means I have many more options in terms of travelling and feeling not too horribly out of place. That doesn't mean I'd never go to China, or somewhere where I'd probably have not the faintest set of phrases ready...but I tend to seek out Spanish countries because of my fluency. And it's not as if learning a second language is all that hard...hell...physics is tougher:)
The value of knowing one Romance language is that it can help you to understand many others. My knowledge of one Latin-based language has given me the ability to read others, if not always to understand the verbal component. Spanish leads to French, Italian, Portugese... I'm proud of the fact that I can pick up a Brazilian newspaper and at least get the gist of the articles contained therein.

English is the universal language (good example is Nationstates, how many ppl are from non-english speaking countries, yet speak/type it here) Nationstates is overwhelmingly English as a first language. And English is hardly a universal language, no matter how much we may wish it to be.

So yes, if i go to a real touristy part of a non-english speaking country, i expect them to speak enough english to communicate with me.
Would you make an attempt to learn the local language at all?

The value of knowing one Romance language is that it can help you to understand many others. My knowledge of one Latin-based language has given me the ability to read others, if not always to understand the verbal component. Spanish leads to French, Italian, Portugese... I'm proud of the fact that I can pick up a Brazilian newspaper and at least get the gist of the articles contained therein.
Yes. I'd feel a lot more comfortable in Italy, Brasil, or any French speaking nation than I would in say...hmmm...Vietnam (haha! Just kidding! Ok, say China). A lot of people are multilingual as well...if they don't have English, they might have French, or something close to what you can understand. People are usually more willing to try to communicate if you meet them half way.

Hey...you didn't quibble this time! Are you ill?

No. However, I'm sure they'll understand me if I speak LOUDLY and slooooowly.
ARGGGH. I've never once had someone do that to me in Spanish or French, but I've seen English speakers do it to others. It always makes me cringe. *cringes*

No....who the hell thinks that way?

Hey...you didn't quibble this time! Are you ill?
Not to quibble, but it's difficult to always phrase things in a constrained fashion.

Nationstates is overwhelmingly English as a first language. And English is hardly a universal language, no matter how much we may wish it to be.

Would you make an attempt to learn the local language at all?

let me add an addendum.

When i say touristy places, i mean places where they teach English as a 2nd language.

as far as attempting to learn the local language. Hell yes i would. But i try to be accomodating(sp) like that ;P plus, i like to learn stuff. Currently taking Chinese in college. Lots a fun.

let me add an addendum.
Sorry to quibble, but isn't anything you add an 'addendum'?

Sorry to quibble, but isn't anything you add an 'addendum'?

not neccessarily... i could add an argument. Or an agreement. But then... you could say those are addendums...

If I were to go to the UK, I'd expect them to speak English, goddamn it.

not neccessarily... i could add an argument. Or an agreement. But then... you could say those are addendums...
Mmm. Tricky.

I expect them to know some English at least. I mean, it is the most widely spoken language in the world (don't tell me Mandarin or Hindi are, as outside their host countries they are relatively unspoken).

But to the same extent, I expect myself to be able to speak a few words and integral lines in their language just to help bridge the communication gap. So I suppose it's a two-way street, but most of the responsibility lies in the travellers, not the locals.

Sort of. I expect that if they are going to attempt to draw tourists from English-speaking countries then they ought to employ people that can understand the language of the business they are trying to attract. But I would never arrogantly expect everyone to speak English. I would just make sure before I made my reservations that the staff at the hotel spoke enough English for me to be able to get along.

Out and about in the countries I'm visiting, though, I wouldn't expect people to necessarily speak English at all.

I expect them to know some English at least. I mean, it is the most widely spoken language in the world (don't tell me Mandarin or Hindi are, as outside their host countries they are relatively unspoken). But where exactly would you expect people to know at least some English (just in resort areas, or all through the country?)...and why would you have that expectation? Keeping in mind that you've said you wouldn't demand it and the onus is on the traveller...I still find this belief to be a bit...odd. The majority of people I've met in non-English countries knew about this much in English, "CocaCola, Bon Jovi, bluejean":)

Out and about in the countries I'm visiting, though, I wouldn't expect people to necessarily speak English at all.
That kind of seems to be what people here have been agreeing on...perhaps in the resorts, but not necessarily outside of them.

It depends on the country. But at any rate, if I'm visiting somewhere frequented by tourists, I'd expect them to speak at least rudimentary English.

That kind of seems to be what people here have been agreeing on...perhaps in the resorts, but not necessarily outside of them.

Well it's good business. If you're going to try to attract English-speaking tourists, you ought to speak English. But the local vendor a mile down the road isn't looking specifically for your business. What does he need to speak English for? (though I imagine it would be very profitable for him)

But where exactly would you expect people to know at least some English (just in resort areas, or all through the country?)...and why would you have that expectation? Keeping in mind that you've said you wouldn't demand it and the onus is on the traveller...I still find this belief to be a bit...odd. The majority of people I've met in non-English countries knew about this much in English, "CocaCola, Bon Jovi, bluejean":)
*laughs* Well, I guess the expectation can't go too far. I wouldn't expect those who live in rural areas to know English. and I wouldn't expect those in countries that have little to no contact with English-speaking countries or media to know it either. But if you're in towns that get a lot of Westerners because of tourism or business, at least business owners and the like should know a few words of English.

The way I see it, if I'm going to a town like the one described above, people should know as much of the English language as I know of their own (ex. please, thank you, goodbye, hello, etc.). Just the basics, nothing too fluent.

*laughs* Well, I guess the expectation can't go too far. I wouldn't expect those who live in rural areas to know English. and I wouldn't expect those in countries that have little to no contact with English-speaking countries or media to know it either. But if you're in towns that get a lot of Westerners because of tourism or business, at least business owners and the like should know a few words of English.

The way I see it, if I'm going to a town like the one described above, people should know as much of the English language as I know of their own (ex. please, thank you, goodbye, hello, etc.). Just the basics, nothing too fluent.
I've met a number of Japanese people who feel that same way.

:confused:

Kanne, Kännchen and Kaninchen? How do you manage to confuse those?
Heh, I don't. I had a friend who did, all the time.

I've met a number of Japanese people who feel that same way.
Except Japanese isn't used too often outside of Japan. English, on the other hand, is. We're not as exposed to Japanese culture as they are to American or Western culture (yes, we have manga, anime, and many of their films now, but the exposure to their language is not there, and what little there is is not wide spread). However, most people I know at least know how to say Konichiwa. That gap will be closed in due time, but right now it's far from it.

It depends on the country. But at any rate, if I'm visiting somewhere frequented by English speaking tourists, I'd expect them to speak at least rudimentary English.
Sorry, just made a modification for you. Because not all tourist areas are heavily sought out by English speakers.

Not really. They can barely manage in Scotland, and that allegedly is an english speaking nation. To expect more from the rest of the world is frankly unrealistic.

Though I expect english in top hotels. It's part of the service.

Not really, unless they're important personnel like medical/fire/police etc. Otherwise, it just makes communication easier...but knowing the language of your vacation destination (or residence?) enables you to experience aspects of the culture outside of what's presented to tourists.

Between the wife and I we speak 4. English of course, French, Arabic and Spanish. So that covers most bases. Do not have much of a problem getting around. Normally someone knows one of the 4 I just listed. Except in mainland China. Very seldom do they speak English or anything else for that matter. Only Mandarin and Cantonese and they normally only speak one of those! I would never expect someone to know English in a non-English speaking nation.

Lazy people. It used to be that you had to know many languages, or a trade dialect or many dialects just to get things done in the limited area you could travel by foot or horse. And now we can travel thousands of miles across the world and we are too damn lazy to learn just one more language. We suck. So much for technology. It just makes us fat, bloated, and stupid. Or maybe that's just an excuse and we really want to be fat, bloated and stupid.

One thing that gets to me is English speaking people who come to live in Sweden who never speak Swedish. I've met several who've been here for years and they just go around speaking English to everyone. It especially bugs me when it's clear they understand Swedish, but choose to respond in English anyway.

In those cases I refuse to speak English just for the sake of it. You live here, you speak the fucking native language, bitch, OK? *grr*

That kind of seems to be what people here have been agreeing on...perhaps in the resorts, but not necessarily outside of them.

Agreed.

In the hotel (where I'm paying them) I would expect them to speak enough English to be able to communicate with me ("Where's the bathroom?" etc).

Outside? Naw.

No...generally I don't. Not saying it wouldn't help if they did, but I can get around in a few languages and usually things like 'where's the bathroom' are quite easy to figure out thanks to pictograms and such...

One thing that gets to me is English speaking people who come to live in Sweden who never speak Swedish. I've met several who've been here for years and they just go around speaking English to everyone. It especially bugs me when it's clear they understand Swedish, but choose to respond in English anyway.

In those cases I refuse to speak English just for the sake of it. You live here, you speak the fucking native language, bitch, OK? *grr*

is it possibe that they response in English just because their english is much better then Swedish and they don't wanna make ppl misunderstand them?

Actually, I kind of expect them to be able to speak German. Lots of German tourists around. Very profitable to speak German...

Y'know, I tell people that German's quite handy. No one believes me. I used it as much as possible when I visited Germany and Austria, and the people would also practice English with me. That was fun, because my friends only understood half of the conversation. Hehe.

Strangely enough, I have always sorta expected people to speak very basic English when I went to Spain and China (the only places I have really tried to communicate with people).

Not all that much success, but I guess I expect people to remember what they learn at school.
This is by the way not a value judgement, but just the hope to use English as lingua franca - they don't speak German, I don't speak Spanish, so we both use English.
What they learn at school? You expect that everyone studies English at school?

What they learn at school? You expect that everyone studies English at school?
continue...

Actually, many Spanish can speak English, they just don't want to. Speak Spanish or you'll have to wait for hours to be served.

[x] No, either I know their language, or I'll be fine with charades as a way to get my point across!

I'm not that arrogant to expect them to speak English when going to a non-English country. I except them to speak their local language, and at least try to speak it as well.
If someone would keep talking to me in English, I'd simply say "I don't speak English" in the local language :D

Not really. They can barely manage in Scotland, and that allegedly is an english speaking nation. To expect more from the rest of the world is frankly unrealistic.

Though I expect english in top hotels. It's part of the service.

Coarr! Orl roight then me old cockney sparra, you've' it it roight on e 'ed you 'ave.

Scots speaking poor English? Behave.:rolleyes:

How many of you have travelled in areas where no one speaks any language you speak. It's quite funny actually. Ordering food in restaurant, trying to get a room in a hotel or just trying to find something. Especially when even the most common gestures mean just the opposite. e.g. shaking your head means yes and nodding means no etc

btw Russians are pretty brave tourists. They usually can't speak anything else than Russian but it doesn't stop them. They just keep speakin Russian no matter what.

Yes, to some extent. Though I'll try a few phrases, they should be somewhat accomodating.

This whole topic reminds me of a two incidents I have witnessed involving American tourists abroad, who did not only expect to be spoken to in English (which as it happens was perfectly ok, so I'm not critisising them for this, as the incidents happened in Sweden and Finland) but also rather more rudely insisted on using US dollars, as if everywhere should accept them.

The first incident was in the town of Borgå (/Porvoo) in Finland in a fantastic chocolate and sweet shop called Brunberg in the old town (I must recommend their licquorice). I was waiting to pay at the cash desk, and in front of me were a couple of Americans. The cashier quite politely annouced the total sum of their goods in euros (as this is the currency in Finland after all!). The American couple immeadiately said "we want to pay in dollars" (no "is it possible"/"do you accept"). As it happens, the shop is in a tourist area (and clearly used to Americans who are incapable of changing money) and they did accept dollars, however the cashier said that their change would be in euros. This made the Americans act in the quite possibly the most rude way I've ever seen anyone act in a shop. They said things like "what good are these euros to me?", "when am I going to spend them", "this is crazy, we're Americans" etc etc. It was all rather embarrasing, and I could only really exchange sympathetic looks with the cashier. In the end, the Americans told her to take back all their purchases and they left the shop with nothing.

I witnessed a similar incident to this in Stockholm aslo, where an American group were saying that they couldn't pay in crowns and would have to pay in dollars...

I wonder if I was to go into a shop in a tourist area of New York and insist in paying in euros or Swedish crowns, how far would I get?

Very strange.

I wonder if I was to go into a shop in a tourist area of New York and insist in paying in euros or Swedish crowns, how far would I get?


I imagine that Euros will become acceptable in some establishments eventually. (Albeit at a shitty exchange rate). I do know people who have managed to persuade people to take sterling. In any case, the Eurozone is such a massive combined economy, international acceptence is just a matter of time.

I don't ever see the crown becoming the popular outside of Sweden however.

Y'know, they have these things today... called translators. Yes, it's true, type a phrase in and it pops up an approximation of what you want to say.

They also have these things called phrasebooks. Some are set up so all you have to do is point to the equivalent phrase and show it to the person you are trying to communicate with.

"Good morning" "Good afternoon" "Good day" "Hello" "Excuse me" "How are you" "How much is this?" "Where is the...." "Check please" "Help me" "I need a doctor" "I need to get to the embassy" "I would like" and "beer/wine" "Do you speak English?" "Please speak slowly" are probably enough of a vocabulary to get you along in ANY country, if you learn the other language's phrases for it.

It's frankly rude not to try, and people tend to be accommodating if they see you're attempting to communicate in their language.

I agree with the learning at least a second language bit...if only so you feel more comfortable travelling. Having learned Spanish means I have many more options in terms of travelling and feeling not too horribly out of place. That doesn't mean I'd never go to China, or somewhere where I'd probably have not the faintest set of phrases ready...but I tend to seek out Spanish countries because of my fluency. And it's not as if learning a second language is all that hard...hell...physics is tougher:)


And... if you know Spanish, Italian is close enough that you'll be understood.

I guess the usual reaction to this is to expect the locals to speak at least some languages other than their own. Mostly English because as said, it is very wide-spread. However, so are German, Russian and French, too. My point is, if I speak four languages other than my mother tongue, how come they wouldn't know at least a bit of some language somewhat close to some of those I speak?

Now, if something is sad, it's the case with Estonians. I find many Finns rude because they expect Estonians to speak Finnish. I do understand our languages are akin and thus easily learned by each other, but... I think its's offensive, so that's why I start conversations in English and if they wish, surely they start speaking Finnish.

Other: I've never travelled. But I'd think it would be better to learn their language before travelling.

I respect foreigners who speak English when they're in public, since it's an English speaking country. Thus, if I went to Danmark, I'd learn Danish as a matter of respect to their country.

OMFG, No! People should learn other languages if they are travelling, instead of expecting people to speak their language.

And... if you know Spanish, Italian is close enough that you'll be understood.
And if you have a rudimentary knowledge of Russian, you can get by (with many glowers) in any of the old Soviet Bloc countries.

IMO, speak the language where you are. That goes for Tourists or Immigrants. The majority should not have to change their habits to accomodate newbies or guests - and certainly not by force of law or PC.

When I lived in Germany, I spoke enough German to get by and didn't demand English menus, signs, documents, whatever.

When toursim is your main source of income being able to speak multiple languages is just an obvious skill to have.

Its like a country that specialises in selling suger not having the machines to pick it..

I understand some people like to go to a place and try and pick up the language and there are many places to do that. Just as some like to go to say barbados or other places and be able to communicate with the people at the hotel.

I know its a bad example, but if a French man comes to England and I want his money I should be able to communicate with him..

When toursim is your main source of income being able to speak multiple languages is just an obvious skill to have.

Its like a country that specialises in selling suger not having the machines to pick it..

I understand some people like to go to a place and try and pick up the language and there are many places to do that. Just as some like to go to say barbados or other places and be able to communicate with the people at the hotel.

I know its a bad example, but if a French man comes to England and I want his money I should be able to communicate with him..But that should be your choice, not a political mandate. The National Language is the National Language.

In the US it's English. Demanding that the Government coddle me by insisting everyone know TailFlick &/or Meeyaro is just stupid.

no, but i'll tell you what really winds me up, when you go to non-english countries, and talk in their language perfectly well and yet they insist on replying in English, it's quite patronising

Ya know what? That was my first thought. I teach English, and the last thing I want to do when I leave work is continue with what amounts to a free lesson. I've been know to go out of my way to pretend I don't speak English to avoid it.

The residence where I live sees a lot of travelers of many different nationalities passing through, and the common languages are English and Japanese, (with French holding a far, far third).

On the otherhand, English has become something of a lingua franca, especially for travelers and the internet. And I'm glad of that as I'd otherwise be out of a job! ;)

no, but i'll tell you what really winds me up, when you go to non-english countries, and talk in their language perfectly well and yet they insist on replying in English, it's quite patronising

Ya know what? That was my first thought. I teach English, and the last thing I want to do when I leave work is continue with what amounts to a free lesson. I've been know to go out of my way to pretend I don't speak English to avoid it.

The residence where I live sees a lot of travelers of many different nationalities passing through, and the common languages are English and Japanese, (with French holding a far, far third).

On the otherhand, English has become something of a lingua franca, especially for travelers and the internet. And I'm glad of that as I'd otherwise be out of a job! ;)

Its hypocritical to expect someone to speak english when they come to and english speaking country and not do the same when going to a non-english speaking country.

One thing that gets to me is English speaking people who come to live in Sweden who never speak Swedish. I've met several who've been here for years and they just go around speaking English to everyone. It especially bugs me when it's clear they understand Swedish, but choose to respond in English anyway.

In those cases I refuse to speak English just for the sake of it. You live here, you speak the fucking native language, bitch, OK? *grr*

On a somewhat related note, I love it when Americans speak Norwegian. I've met some, and they've been impressively good at the language, but they have a funny accent that makes me think of little elves in top hats, like the ones you'd expect to see running around Santa's workshop.

That said, it's unrealistic to expect everyone to be able to learn every language of every country they travel to. Sure, for longer stays abroad it would be a good idea (and a compliment to the native speakers,) but for shorter stays it would be unreasonable.

But what really bothers me is when Norwegian people insist on speaking English to each other in everyday conversation! Even if it's just a few phrases. It's unnecessary, it's disrespectful and it is to me a scary indication of the direction in which my language may be heading. And it's not even good English. I've only know of a few people who do this, but they are repeating sinners and annoy me to no end.

I learn key phrases beforehand.

One thing that gets to me is English speaking people who come to live in Sweden who never speak Swedish. I've met several who've been here for years and they just go around speaking English to everyone. It especially bugs me when it's clear they understand Swedish, but choose to respond in English anyway.

In those cases I refuse to speak English just for the sake of it. You live here, you speak the fucking native language, bitch, OK? *grr*
TrashCat just saw Fass espouse a Usian Conservative (racist/anti-hispanic? take your pick..) opinion!

Call a Vet! I am hallucinating! :p

TrashCat just saw Fass espouse a Usian Conservative opinion!

Call a Vet! I am hallucinating! :p

The US has no native language, and Spanish, contrary to English, is nice.

TrashCat just saw Fass espouse a Usian Conservative opinion!

Call a Vet! I am hallucinating! :p
The irony is delicious. And entirely intentional. Which is why I love Fass as much as I do.

The irony is delicious. And entirely intentional. Which is why I love Fass as much as I do.

Sinuhue has grown to get it, which is why I've grown to love her, too.

Sinuhue has grown to get it, which is why I've grown to love her, too.
Yes, I used to think you were just a shrill hypocrite. But that's because the subtle art of irony is mostly absent on NS.

Yes, I used to think you were just a shrill hypocrite. But that's because the subtle art of irony is mostly absent on NS.

I manage to find it here and there. At least that's what I like to think to keep at least a little faith in certain people here.

I manage to find it here and there. At least that's what I like to think to keep at least a little faith in certain people here.
Czardas manages to use it well...and annoy the hell out of those who take it seriously.

The irony is delicious. And entirely intentional. Which is why I love Fass as much as I do.
:confused: So then, Fass does not hold this opinion?

:confused: So then, Fass does not hold this opinion?
Only Fass can tell you that. And only you can choose to believe his answer or not.

Only Fass can tell you that. And only you can choose to believe his answer or not.
Fass? Please answer the kitty. Curiosity and all that. ;)

Fass? Please answer the kitty. Curiosity and all that. ;)

Killed it, I'm afraid.

I find the easiest mistake is trying to order a pot of coffee in a German restaurant, and ordering a rabbit of coffee instead.
there are books you can find that have pictures of food. it makes things much easier to just point to a plate of french fries than go through translating

Killed it, I'm afraid.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y180/MrMisanthrope/trashcat.jpg

PTHBLTH!

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/violent/sterb103.gif

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y180/MrMisanthrope/trashcat.jpg
PTHBLTH!
http://www.websmileys.com/sm/violent/sterb103.gif

Yeah, that's getting old and spammy.

Worst stay in a hotel I have ever had was in a little Japanese town. None of the staff spoke English, I didn't speak Japanese. This was a business trip, so we had a host that spoke English, or we would not have been there.

So to answer your question, yes, the staff should speak English for _my_ stay to be pleasant. Not a lot, just enough to communicate things like new towels, more liquor and other hotel-type requests. And yes, I will only choose hotels that have that capability.

On the other hand, day trips away from the hotel can be fun and I won't ever let my lack of language keep me from enjoying myself. On that same trip to Japan, I was wandering around one evening and ended up drinking with some Japanese man. Neither of us understood the other, but we had a great time buying each other drinks.

And yes, I do try to learn a few polite phrases. I gave up trying to learn informational ones because I usually got lost in trying to understand the answer. "Where is the train station?" is a fine question, but when the answer isn't "Right across the street" with the appropriate pointing and pushing, it's too hard.
Agreed ... while I dont expect the general populace to know english I will choose a hotell that better offers that capacity

It makes my life easier and I am willing to pay more for that feature

Spain


really???? got to ask which part. Hell i've lived in the country seven years now and never met a friendlier bunch.

Yeah, that's getting old and spammy.
You can thank 4chan, most notably /b/, for that one. *rolls eyes*

I hate online translators with a passion. You really can't get any good use out of 'em (though I have found the exception for a German one, YAY!). Fass here likes to bust out his swedish from time to time to make my head explode, as I try to apply my knowledge of German (and a negligible amount of French) to see what he's saying. Others'll try Dutch with me, and I rather like the challenge. I've found learning German is incredibly useful, and lots of fun.

Frankly, I get pissed at anyone who visits another country, expecting people to serve them in the visitor's native tongue. If you visit a country, you damned well better make some attempt at communicating in their tongue. Anyone who simply refuses should be tossed out on their ear, imo.

Hell I don't even expect people to understand English in my own country. And I'm fine with that. Nothing funnier than getting drunk with an old Portugese guy who insists on telling you jokes in Portugese.

Can't we all just Speak Esperanto and be happy ? :fluffle:

Can't we all just Speak Esperanto and be happy ? :fluffle:
IIRC The French had too many issues with Esperanto & Lojban (http://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=Home+Page&bl) to make them successful.

I vote for tlhIngan Hol (http://www.kli.org/kli/langs/KLItlh.html).

Qapla' :D

IIRC The French had too many issues with Esperanto & Lojban (http://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=Home+Page&bl) to make them successful.

I vote for tlhIngan Hol (http://www.kli.org/kli/langs/KLItlh.html).

Qapla' :D
Geek.