NationStates Jolt Archive

I saw this on Lawyers, Guns and Money (http://lefarkins.blogspot.com) and figured it would start quite a discussion here, since this board has quite a wide array in political sensibility. Here are the rules I'm planning on following.

1. I won't pick anyone who was a bastard before the US existed (i.e. Benedict Arnold).

2. Naturalized citizens are fair game.

3. No flaming of the choices of others. Respectful disagreement only, please, and try to keep the rolling eye smiley usage at a minimum.

4. Remember--to hit this list, the person has to have done something spectacular. Even if you think that person was great, he/she may wind up on another's list precisely because that thing you find spectacular, others may find abominable. I say this because I'm willing to bet FDR hits someone's list on the front page, and I couldn't disagree more.

5. Mine won't be in any particular order.

6. Tell us why you think your choices belong on the list--none of this "if you don't know why, you're an idiot" crap.

So, without further adieu, here's my list of ten worst Americans (and I know I'll miss someone big).

J. Edgar Hoover Yeah, I'm stealing from the blog I got the meme from--sue me. If there was a greater enemy of civil rights for no other reason than the gain of personal power, I don't know one.

Rupert Murdoch He's done more damage to modern journalism than even Paddy Chayefsky could have imagined in his worst nightmares.

Richard Nixon He was the first modern president to argue for imperial power. If George W. Bush pisses you off, Nixon's why.

Nathan Bedford Forrest Another one I'm ripping off of the original list, for precisely the same reason--he fought to destroy the union, and then fought the only good things to come out of that war.

Joe McCarthy Utterly shameless in his persecution of people who either disagreed with him politically, or who stood up for their First Amendment rights.

Andrew Jackson The genocide of native peoples at his hands is an atrocity this nation still hasn't come to terms with.

Rush Limbaugh This was a tossup between him and O'Reilly--Limbaugh's been around longer and made people like O'Reilly possible, so he gets the nod. If there's been a single person more responsible for the divisiveness of contemporary US politics, I don't know who it is. He's a liar and a hypocrite and he's been rewarded beyond the dreams of avarice for it.

Robert E. Lee More for what southerners have made out of him than for his own actions, which were bad enough in my book. The lionization of him as the epitome of southern manhood, however, has helped keed the south from coming to grips with its past for the last one hundred-fifty years.

Lou Pearlman He's the fucker who gave us the Backstreet Boys, among others.

Andrew Volstead Authored the Volstead Act, also known as Prohibition. Anyone who hates getting lit so bad that he wants to keep everyone from doing it is an asshole in every sense of the word.

Let's see who makes your lists.

-Micheal Moore. His "documentaries" have made sooo many people think that they are actually smart.

Can't think of anymore. Tired.

1. The bastard who came up with the Real World
2. NSYNC
3. Andrew Jackson
4. The guy who invented l33t.
5. Pat Robertson
6. The director of Heaven's Gate
7. David Duke.
8. Louis Anderson
9. The guy who came up with the Enzyte commericals.
10. Alec Baldwin

I'm not big on US history, so I probably will miss a few and still not get ten.

Joe McCarthy definitely. Pretty clear why...he turned the US into this paranoid entity - and some people still haven't quite gotten over it ("Europe is teh Socializt!1!!").

Ronald Reagan. Generally not a nice fellow, and he didn't exactly help America to see the world in shades of gray. I realise that he won't make all that many people's lists, but I think his rhetoric could so easily have ended up in catastrophe - and what he has come to represent today is just as bad.

Dick Cheney. What a bastard - he epitomises so much of what is wrong with your country right now. Big Business, probably corrupt and an imperialist.

Timothy McVeigh. Blowing up heaps of people for the sake of some sort of Christian revolution is not nice.

Anyone involved in this whole "torturing people is okay if we don't call it torture"-program. I don't know names, but these people have done so much damage to America, damage which may not be seen to its full extent for many years.

These are those that came to mind just now. I might think of more later.

1. The bastard who came up with the Real World
2. NSYNC
3. Andrew Jackson
4. The guy who invented l33t.
5. Pat Robertson
6. The director of Heaven's Gate
7. David Duke.
8. Louis Anderson
9. The guy who came up with the Enzyte commericals.
10. Alec Baldwin
You know, I completely forgot about the televangelist class. Yeah, I need one of those fuckers on my list.

You know, I completely forgot about the televangelist class. Yeah, I need one of those fuckers on my list.
Which one is worst? That's the problem.

James K. Polk started a war of aggression with Mexico. Not news given actions of other American presidents like William McKinley and his war with Spain. Then there are the more obvious evil men like McVeigh and Eddie Gein.

Which one is worst? That's the problem.
I'd go with Robertson, for much the same reason I went with Limbaugh of the talking pinhead class--he's been around longer than most, but unlike those others, he went beyond greed into pure assholery. I mean, take Oral Roberts for instance. He's an asshole, but he's basically after the cash and little else. Robertson and his sidekick Falwell are out to subvert democracy. I'd have to choose between those two.

1. Jerferson Davis: An obvious traitor. Pres. Eisenhower should have never pardoned him.
2. Upton Sinclair: Not just a socialist, but was the closest America ever came to a powerful socialist.
3. Huey Long: The dictator of the South. That says it all.
4. Peggy Eaton: Her fooling around ended the Jackson Administration politically, and is the single person most responsible for the Civil War.
5. Richard Nixon: I think we all know why.
6. Joe McCartney: Paranoia for political gain.
7. Sam Gompers: Started the movement that strangled American industry and helped lead to the seedy semi-statist post WWII era.
8. John K. Galbraith: ditto #7.
9. Ulyssess Grant: Super stupid.
10. Malcolm X: helped inflame a near insurgency in this country.

Brendon Frasier- Good for at least 2 horrible movies a year, minimum. Not just bad movies, God-Awful, want to kill yourself movies....

Bill Bidwell- Moved the St. Louis Cardinals football team to Arizona late 1980s because they promised him a new stadium... The now "Arizona Cardinals" still play at Arizona State University, as they have no stadium of their own.. That guy plays the meat whistle..

8. John K. Galbraith: ditto #7.
Regardless of his political involvements though, he did a lot for the profession of economics. Every science needs an iconoclast from time to time, and JK Galbraith was nothing if not that.

Rupert Murdoch ? but he is an australian

Rupert Murdoch ? but he is an australian
He's a naturalized citizen. Has been for years, too.

BIll Wirtz asshole who owns Chicago Blackhawks. He is a cheapass and earned the nickname "dollar bill." He put stanley cup final games on pay per view.

Mike McCaskey Bear fans know where I'm coming from. There is a reason his grandfather, Papa Bear, tried to keep him away from the team.

Clinton He blew opportunity after opportunity to ge Osama

Nixon No explanation needed

Andrew Jackson Genocidal maniac (founded Democrat party)

FDR He should've joined WWII earlier. He also made us a socialist state

The Rosenbergs No explanation necessary

McNamara Idiot as SecDef. He lost Vietnam when he ran it like a political operation and put restrictions on actions that hampered our ability to win.

Michael Moore The fat tub of lard is responsible for the starving children in Africa (not really, but it is good satire.)

Matt Groening I loved Simpsons until season 10. You make this list for keeping them on the air 7 years after you should've pulled the plug.

Rupert Murdoch ? but he is an australian
Not anymore--he became a US citizen when he bought Fox.

John Wayne Gacey
Ted Bundy
Jeffrey Dahlmer
Charles Manson
Richard Speck
Richard Ramirez, the night stalker
William Bonin
Jim Jones
Pee Wee Gaskins
Ted Kaczynski
Wayne Williams

etc etc etc

Joe McCarthy (http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_McCarthy)- Tried to erode civil liberties to have a little temporary safety.

Jefferson Davis (http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jefferson_Davis)- Not to fond of his cause or his leadership.

Warren Harding (http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_Harding) - Out of all the presidents, his administration was the most corrupt. And that’s saying something!

William Joseph Simmons (http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Joseph_Simmons)- Reenergized the KKK. (Didn't put Forrest here since he at least left the group.)

Michael D. Brown (http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_D._Brown)- Did one heck of a job.

Howard Dean (http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Howard_Dean)- Calls Republican Party a "white Christian Party" while he him self and the majority of Americans are white Christians. Does he want the Democrats to fail?

Pat Robertson (http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_Robertson)- His ideas of serving God are to talk of assassinations, and to threaten towns that reject Intelligent Design.

Joel Schumacher (http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joel_Schumacher)- He directed Batman & Robin. Go see it if you don't know why that qualifies him. On second thought, don't.

Rick Berman (http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rick_Berman)- He ran Star Trek... into the ground.

Chuck Austen (http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chuck_Austen)-Worst Avengers writer ever.

for his own actions, which were bad enough in my book.
Elaborate.



1. Jack Thompson - Really a toss up between him, Tipper Gore, and Hillary Clinton. They're all a bunch of fucking statist bastards when it comes to censorship.

2. Michael Moore - Really he could take up the whole list. With the amount of bullshit that comes out of his mouth, it's surprising the entire country isn't hip deep.

3. Richard M. Daley - Still one of the most powerful men in the United States, Although much less so than his father. This elitist fuck has 30 active CPD officers guarding his family but has outlawed a vast majority of firearms unless you have the cash to bribe him with.

4. Will finish tomorrow.

So many crappy Americans so little time...

I am supprised no one mentioned Hillary Clinton or Fred Phelps.

McCartney, Moore, and Hoover I can agree with.

Elaborate.
Well, he was the military leader of the traitors in the Civil War. That's enough for me, although I could tie him with Jefferson Davis and give you a two-for-one, with the military and political leadership.

Wow ... just .... wow ....

I almost wanted to stay out of this one. The people I see as worst Americans are national heroes to some. I believe my choices would be subject to much anger and gnashing of teeth just as I've seen one or two of my personal heroes on above lists.

Suffice it to say, though, that the people on my list have taken what this country was founded upon (freedom, dissidence, and civil disobedience) and what it stands for and have spat bile upon it.

Hence, Moore and Limbaugh would not be on my list. Theyr'e both good Americans (maybe not great, but good enough).

Having said that, I will not name names ... I will give categories:

Keruvalia's Worst Americans:

1] People who believe that English should be the only language allowed in the US.

2] People who are eligable to, but do not, vote.

3] People who believe their right to own a firearm is more important than another's right to be free from illegal search and seizure.

4] People who believe their right to be free from illegal search and seizure is more important than another's right to own a firearm.

5] People who believe the poor should just "get over it".

6] People who believe the arts is not a "real job".

7] People who believe it is not only their right, but their moral obligation, to tell me how to raise my children.

8] People who believe they can tell me, a grown man, what I can and cannot watch on television. (I'm lookin' at you, FCC)

9] People who forget that what is past is prologue.

10] People who drape themselves in the flag, but have absolutely no fuckin' clue what those stars and stripes truely mean.

If you fall into any of the above, sorry. I genuinely feel sad for your mama.

2. Michael Moore
Although he hasn't really done anything that bad. Dissenters, who basically do nothing wrong (ie don't break laws, don't hurt or kill people etc) clearly aren't worse than people who effectively order genocides on natives, are they?

3. Huey Long: The dictator of the South. That says it all.

I have his autograph. :)

This is not meant to be a list of the "worst" Americans, but merely of a number I consider to be rather bad.

1. Franklin Roosevelt - ignored the plight of European Jewry, among other things
2. Richard Nixon - extended the Vietnam War, invaded Cambodia
3. Henry Kissinger - deposed Allende
4. Ronald Reagan - caused tens of thousands of deaths through his terrorist death squads in Central America
5. Lyndon Johnson - began the Vietnam War
6. Robert E. Lee - fought in defense of a barbaric system of exploitation
7. Andrew Jackson - ethnically cleansed tens of thousands of Native Americans
8. Hebert Hoover - ignored the plight of the victims of the Depression
9. Woodrow Wilson - white supremacist; brought the US into World War I
10. George W. Bush - invaded Iraq

In the cases of both Bush and Reagan, I suppose it could be argued that they were not necessarily truly in control of their administrations' policies, and thus the blame could be shifted to their advisors.

Harry S. Truman at #1, both for authorizing the only use to-date of atomic weapons and for needlessly getting us involved in the Korean conflict.

Ronald Reagan at #2, for getting us needlessly involved in...I don't even wanna count how many. Created Osama bin Laden as a freedom-fighter in Soviet Afghanistan, gave WMD to Saddam Hussein, popularized voodoo economics, and made a bunch of shitty movies.

Woodrow Wilson and FDR, for getting us needlessly involved in WWI and WW2 for the tie at #3-4. Bad enough that they actively wanted us in these wars, but they also let innocents die by putting out poison bait -- the Lusitania for Wilson, a poorly-defended Pearl Harbor for FDR -- to deliberately get us involved. FDR's sound economic policy is all that saves him in the history books.

Abraham Lincoln at #5, for getting us needlessly involved in the Civil War -- seriously, slavery was already on its way out as machines became more efficient, and the deep south would have crawled back to the Union as it wasn't self-sufficient -- and using it to justify one of the largest consolidations of executive power in US history. His decision to go to war instead of letting the problem self-correct also, ironically enough, created a bitter racism toward African-Americans that hasn't been totally shaken even today.

William McKinley needlessly getting us involved in the Spanish-American War takes #6. This marked the beginning of a new American imperialism that has yet to slow down.

JFK at #7, for needlessly getting us involved in Vietnam. A waste of life and possibly the most divisive issue of the 20th century in the US, this one doesn't rank higher only because its effects weren't as far-reaching.

George W. Bush at #8, for needlessly getting us involved in Iraq #2 and Afghanistan's civil war. Going in to find OBL was justified, but instead we used it as an excuse to kick around the Taliban for a while and not really do much to ferret out al Qaeda. And Iraq quite simply posed no threat to us.

George H.W. Bush and Bill Clinton tied at #9-10, for needlessly getting us involved in Iraq #1, and Syria and Iraq #1.5 respectively. Nonsense battles against opponents that were no threat and only managed to get us further involved in the Middle East.

Wow ... just .... wow ....

I almost wanted to stay out of this one. The people I see as worst Americans are national heroes to some. I believe my choices would be subject to much anger and gnashing of teeth just as I've seen one or two of my personal heroes on above lists.

Suffice it to say, though, that the people on my list have taken what this country was founded upon (freedom, dissidence, and civil disobedience) and what it stands for and have spat bile upon it.

Hence, Moore and Limbaugh would not be on my list. Theyr'e both good Americans (maybe not great, but good enough).

Having said that, I will not name names ... I will give categories:

Keruvalia's Worst Americans:

1] People who believe that English should be the only language allowed in the US.

2] People who are eligable to, but do not, vote.

3] People who believe their right to own a firearm is more important than another's right to be free from illegal search and seizure.

4] People who believe their right to be free from illegal search and seizure is more important than another's right to own a firearm.

5] People who believe the poor should just "get over it".

6] People who believe the arts is not a "real job".

7] People who believe it is not only their right, but their moral obligation, to tell me how to raise my children.

8] People who believe they can tell me, a grown man, what I can and cannot watch on television. (I'm lookin' at you, FCC)

9] People who forget that what is past is prologue.

10] People who drape themselves in the flag, but have absolutely no fuckin' clue what those stars and stripes truely mean.

If you fall into any of the above, sorry. I genuinely feel sad for your mama.Your list is a damn sight better than mine. Hell of a job.

I have his autograph. :)
Must be old. Probably worth a lot, too. I never really knew that politicians gave out autographs, but then again, I've never met a big one. I bumped into a senator once in DC that gave me directions, though. Friendly guy, but I can't remember his name for the life of me.

Robert MacNamara: The scumbag who got us into Vietnam on blatantly false pretenses with the Gulf of Tonkin resolution. Set a precedent that is followed to this day. Wrote the textbook chapter on how to foist a disastrous war on a gullible and unsuspecting nation.

Zbignew Brzezinski: The answer to "Why Do They Hate Us?"
While the affable and genuinely well-intentioned Jimmy Carter presided, this piece of garbage engineered the political machinations responsible for ALL manifestations of politicized radical Islam that pose a global security threat today. It's just too bad they didn't remain circumscribed by Zbignew's carefully planned sphere of operations-- between Moscow and Aceh.

Ralph Reed: The TV-evangelists are easy symbols to vent on, but this character, operating behind the scenes, is responsible for creating and manipulating the nexus of evangelist dollars and religious-right politics as it exists today.

John Negroponte: Again, there are numerous other neo-cons that could take his place, from Cheney on down; I've specifically chosen him because he is the worst kind of amoral, unrelenting hatchet man. From his promising early days as a runner of death-squads in Central America to his imperial governorship of Iraq, this bastard has come a long way.

Henry Kissinger: the brains behind the most odious and reprehensible of Nixon's policies.

Richard Nixon: for going along with him.

Karl Rove: we all know some of the things he's responsible for. If those aren't enough... I bet there's some you didn't know too.

Bill O'Reilly: Because Limbaugh is already on Nazz's list. Sean Hannity was really neck-and-neck for this spot, though.

Steven Spielberg: Hypocrite. This self-styled Apostle of tolerance who made "Schindler's List" is also responsible for peddling the most virulent kind of racist stereotyping in his Indiana Jones films. We're supposed to take that as a joke, though, because it's his "homage to 1930s adventure cinema", and what kind of homage would it be without all its vile prejudices against black and brown people intact.

Paris Hilton.

I've left out Joe McCarthy and people who predate him... mainly because I think a healthy nation does need to have a statute of limitations where individual assholes are concerned. For our own sake, not theirs.

Of course, the ideologies they espoused must never be allowed to resurface and threaten us again, and must be remembered for this reason. The individual people behind them, however, are probably best consigned to the garbage heap of history and forgotten... just my opinion.

Must be old. Probably worth a lot, too. I never really knew that politicians gave out autographs, but then again, I've never met a big one. I bumped into a senator once in DC that gave me directions, though. Friendly guy, but I can't remember his name for the life of me.

Well I'm related to Wright Patman (he's an uncle of X amount of "greats" and I still own the piece of Patman's Switch on which he was born) and I have a letter that Huey Long wrote to Wright Patman. It is old. Dated 1930.

It's talking about the rights of black people in the south.

Good job IDF or whatever your name is on bashing Democrats. Obviously your sore that Dems are fighting back and not taking any back talk anymore. Andrew Jackson's form of the Democrat Party is the new Neo-Conservative version of the Republican Party. By the way, try not to portray Osama Bin Laden as Clinton's problem. If you really want to know why he became radical, try looking at the last 30 years of Republicans in America, That is the reason why the world dislikes America's politics and reasoning. The wheel keeps turning with ignorance ;)

J. Edgar Hoover Yeah, I'm stealing from the blog I got the meme from--sue me. If there was a greater enemy of civil rights for no other reason than the gain of personal power, I don't know one.

Joe McCarthy Utterly shameless in his persecution of people who either disagreed with him politically, or who stood up for their First Amendment rights.

i'll see your hoover and mccarthy, and raise you an alexander palmer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palmer_Raids)

Your list is a damn sight better than mine. Hell of a job.

Your a joke. Enough said.

Your a joke. Enough said.

Huh?

I've left out Joe McCarthy and people who predate him... mainly because I think a healthy nation does need to have a statute of limitations where individual assholes are concerned. For our own sake, not theirs.
It's pretty obvious that there was no commie threat, and that his actions (which by the way were more to profit him than the country) did a lot more damage than they could've made up for.

Huh?
What an aggressive newbie! :D

i'll see your hoover and mccarthy, and raise you an alexander palmer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palmer_Raids)
Yeah, he could easily make the list as well. I'll stick with Hoover only because his influence was longer than Palmer's.

What an aggressive newbie! :D

Lol ... well I suppose it's good to come in with a bang, but that always seems to make them go out with a whimper ...

*shrug*

I'll leave it to The Nazz to report if necessary.

Among others mentioned Hurst and Pulitzer (spelling?). "You write the story and I'll give you the war". They show just how bad a free press can be.

Your a joke. Enough said.
I know a young man with Willsie as his middle name. Really it is kind of like golf.

Let's see:

1. Bill O'Reilly. Oh really?
2. Sean Hannity. You've gotta hannity it to him, he does a good job of making BS sound like news.
3. Tucker "The Fucker" Carlson
4. Ronald McDonald. No more in Japan - he's Mc-gone-ald.

5. Dennis the Menace.
6. Al Sharpton.
7. The Cast of In Living Color...minus Jim Carrey (since he's Canadian, not American, and he owns in general).
8. Edwin Hubble.
9. Steven Spielberg's assistant.
10. The guy/girl who invented glitter.

Just a few off the top of my head, in no particular order:

1)Joe McCarthy - Red scare and all that.

2)Pat Robinson - Not as much for the stupid stuff he says, but for the fact that he makes people think its actually Christianity.

3)Madonna - Just for being her.

4)Bill Gates - “Innovation through non-competition.”

5)Jesse Jackson - And no, Jesse, its not because you’re black.

6)Michel Jackson - Molest kids and be a national hero. Yippe.

7)Howard Stern - Champion of free speech? Hardly. Just a child who wants to make waves.

8)Jack Thompson - Champion of non-violence? Hardly. Just a child who wants to make waves.

9)Rick Berman - Enterprise’s finale.

10)Tie between all the men who became “heroes” because they killed Native Americans for the “crime” of existing without a permit.



Dishonorable Mention:
FDR - Mostly great guy in my book, but the Japanese Internment gets him a few dozen shame points. One of the most shameful chapters in US history.

Edward Kennedy - One of the best examples of failure to see anyone for anything past party affiliation.

George W. Bush - Dumbass

George H.W. Bush - Dumbass Father


Simple...

It's pretty obvious that there was no commie threat, and that his actions (which by the way were more to profit him than the country) did a lot more damage than they could've made up for.

No argument there. McCarthy was intensely damaging and had no excuse.

But I don't have Andrew Jackson or Jefferson Davis on my list either...doesn't mean I condone at all what either of them stood for.

However, to place such phenomena as the Red Scare or the genocide of Native Americans or slavery at the feet of individuals and demonize those individuals in a list such as this... when clearly, events on that scale could not have occurred without complicity on a mass level... sort of seems to trivialize those phenomena. To my mind anyway. It has a connotation of attempting to bury, alongside irrevocably dead individuals, the possibility that their kinds of deeds and ideologies might surface to menace us again.

I'd simply rather focus on such assholes as are alive and well and doing harm today. Just a preference.

William J. Simmons ~ Founded the modern KKK. Though I’d put any KKK member in there.

George Lincoln Rockwell ~ Another american racist, founded the American Nazi Party, though I’d be willing to put most Nazis in there.

Joe McCarthy ~ I admire his anti-communist spirit, but he went about it in thw wrong way.

Richard Nixon ~ Duh

Charles Manson or any other murderer, I’m not going to use them to add padding to my list.

Michael Moore ~ He’s just so fucking full of shit sometimes.

General Sherman ~ Brought total war onto the people that would eventually be part of the U.S. again.

Paris Hilton ~ I just don’t like her.

Pretty much any Stalinist. I don’t care about regular commies even though I am a Fascist, but Stalinists I can’t stand.

Hoover ~ He didn’t do enough during the depression…he should have tried to fix the problem.

3)Madonna - Just for being her.


She still has US citizenship? Just kidding.

My list, in no specific order:
- Inventor of the boy band, bringer of radio death, whatever his name is.
- UberRepublicans, who charge the democrats are indoctrinating American youth in socialism, and then publish books featuring democrats molesting people.
- Michael Moore, for being self-important and an ass-hat.
- The Media, for being a bunch of cowards. Not from fear of public outrage, but investor and owner come-uppance.
- Karl Rove for subverting democracy.
- James Madison, declares war on Great Britain, white house burns, treasury bankrupted, Maine swears an oath to King George, victory declared.
- Bill O'Reilly for being a liar and a c*nt.
- Drug dealers for exploiting society
- Gangs for worsening society
- George Armstrong Custer, for theft, genocide, and arrogance leading to his own destruction.

Bill Clinton - The most popular caretaker president of our time if not ever, at his best he made doing nothing look good.

Micheal Moore - His "documentaries" contain as much fiction as they do fact but almost nobody calls him on it and those that do are labeled far-right nutjobs.

John Kerry - The man trips over his own feet and gets a friggin' medal...TWICE! Then comes back to the states and accuses everybody he left behind of being a bunch of rapists and murderers.

Jim & Sarah Brady - Trying to strip the Bill of Rights is seriously not cool. So what if this guy gets shot by a crazed criminal. Taking away my guns isn't going to do a damn thing to halt crime since I only use legally and hardly ever take em out.

Joe McCarthy - Such a dumba**. The last thing we ever need is a witch hunt.

Any Environmentalist - Bunch of dumba**, tree-huggin, hippies! They have no idea what they're saying most of the time. They're sheep blindly following their shepherds.

Anybody who wants genetic research outlawed - People fear what they don't understand. Ignorance is only bliss until you die from a flesh-eating bacteria.

Jefferson Davis - Self-appointed president of the south. This guy started the civil war.

Ignorant People - Most people fall under this blanket description. Anyone who doesn't care how something works, these are the people that need tech support and "experts" to tell them what to do instead of learning what the "experts" know.

Anybody who expects life to be fair - It simply isn't. Whenever I see or hear somebody b****ing about how somebody else isn't playing nice I want to hit them sooo much.

Beggars and Lazy f***ers - No not like poor people, I mean people who have things pretty (middle to rich) nice but rather than spend their own money on something, beg for a donation or the government to do it for them. I live in MN and we give half of ouyr state budget to schools but they still ask for more.

FDR - The man rounded up all the Japs in America and sent them to camps. Sound familiar?

Yeah, he could easily make the list as well. I'll stick with Hoover only because his influence was longer than Palmer's.

but palmer did so much in a short time. he arrested thousands and thousands of people and had many deported with only the flimsiest of excuses. that has to count for something.

all hoover did was keep files on everyone, ordered an assassination or two, disrupted peace and civil rights groups, and wore womens' underwear.

1. Alberto Gonzales - For his fight to make torture an acceptable tool in interrogations by the US government.
2. "Dick" Cheney - For being the real brains behind an administration that has done terrible, possibly irrepairable, damage to the reputation of the US.
3. George W. Bush - For being the keystone that let the above happen.
4. John Ashcroft - for eroding civil liberties.
5. Joseph Mcarthy - For his attempts to crush free speech.
6. J. Edgar Hoover - For picking up Mcarthy's torch using even greater force when the prosecutorial approach was deemed unconstitutional (the COINTELPRO era).
7. Jerry Fallwell - For linking the Republican party to Christianity
8. Justice Blackmun - For writing the supreme court opinion with the wildest twist of logic imaginable (Roe v. Wade), further cementing the concept that it is ok to legislate from the bench.
9. Rush Limbaugh - Turning politics into a war and dividing america along political lines.
10. Harry S. Truman - Responsible for one of the greatest war crimes ever committed, the murder of over 200,000 innocent civilians with the dropping of two atomic bombs. Also responsible for the creation of the state of Israel, an action that has led to the current chaos in the middle east and is directly responsible for modern middle eastern terrorism (without that action there would be no need for a war on terror right now).

Okay, I have to defend Lee here. First of all, people need to get their facts straight. Lee didn’t want to fight in the Civil War. He was in the Union Army before the war, and only joined the Confederacy because he couldn’t betray his own state- his childhood, his family, and all he ever knew. He may have been a traitor to the Country, but was loyal to himself, his state, his family, and his own. Note that Lee had no slaves, and therefore couldn’t have been fighting to keep them, so throw that one out the window, Yank’s. And so I shall move on.

1) President Abraham Lincoln – Worst President of all time; used Civil War for own personal gain, which ended up causing a casualty list greater than all other wars the US has engaged in combined; and yet he still looks like a hero.

2) Major General William Tecumseh Sherman – “Leave Nothing Alive” … And the North thought the South was ruthless.

3) President Ulysses S. Grant – Raging alcoholic president. Second worst president of all time.

4) President Woodrow Wilson – Needlessly got us involved in WWI. Come on, the German leader at the time a bad man? No!

5) President Richard Nixon and President Bill Clinton – Began the degradation of the standards of those who hold office / The epitome of the degradation of the standards of those who hold office.

Okay, I have to defend Lee here. First of all, people need to get their facts straight. Lee didn’t want to fight in the Civil War. He was in the Union Army before the war, and only joined the Confederacy because he couldn’t betray his own state- his childhood, his family, and all he ever knew. He may have been a traitor to the Country, but was loyal to himself, his state, his family, and his own. Note that Lee had no slaves, and therefore couldn’t have been fighting to keep them, so throw that one out the window, Yank’s.

Lee fought to preserve a political unit founded in order to protect an unacceptable and barbaric system.

I have nothing against traitors per se, but Lee was the worst of the sort, betraying his country for a morally unjustifiable cause.

1) President Abraham Lincoln – Worst President of all time; used Civil War for own personal gain, which ended up causing a casualty list greater than all other wars the US has engaged in combined; and yet he still looks like a hero.

Lincoln ended slavery. That elevates him very highly in my view, however pragmatic and slow-moving he may have been in doing so.

5) President Richard Nixon and President Bill Clinton – Began the degradation of the standards of those who hold office / The epitome of the degradation of the standards of those who hold office.

What particular standards was Clinton the "epitome" of degrading?

What particular standards was Clinton the "epitome" of degrading?
Good ole Southern US-type Christian morality?
And all by a man from Arkansas...

He's a naturalized citizen. Has been for years, too.

He's still our fault. Alas, we must claim responsibility for him. :(

Okay, I have to defend Lee here. First of all, people need to get their facts straight. Lee didn’t want to fight in the Civil War. He was in the Union Army before the war, and only joined the Confederacy because he couldn’t betray his own state- his childhood, his family, and all he ever knew. He may have been a traitor to the Country, but was loyal to himself, his state, his family, and his own. Note that Lee had no slaves, and therefore couldn’t have been fighting to keep them, so throw that one out the window, Yank’s. And so I shall move on.

1) President Abraham Lincoln – Worst President of all time; used Civil War for own personal gain, which ended up causing a casualty list greater than all other wars the US has engaged in combined; and yet he still looks like a hero.

2) Major General William Tecumseh Sherman – “Leave Nothing Alive” … And the North thought the South was ruthless.

3) President Ulysses S. Grant – Raging alcoholic president. Second worst president of all time.

4) President Woodrow Wilson – Needlessly got us involved in WWI. Come on, the German leader at the time a bad man? No!

5) President Richard Nixon and President Bill Clinton – Began the degradation of the standards of those who hold office / The epitome of the degradation of the standards of those who hold office.

What did Lincoln do wrong again? All the things you said were terribly biased or blatantly untrue.

What's with the Nixon and Clinton bashing? Sure, they made a few mistakes. Does that make them terrible people? No! Not in the least bit. They were great presidents. People complain about the war in Iraq now, then go around and start talking about how horrible Nixon was. He had the guts to get us out of Vietnam for God's sake! Clinton was a great president, no matter what he did. Nixon was the only president getting caught doing what he did. And he really didn't do it, either. He was the Republican Party's scapegoat.

I do have to agree with you on Tecumseh and Lee, however.

And the Ronald Reagan bashing makes me sick to my stomach as well. He was a brilliant president. He bankrupted the Soviet Union using very little money, if any at all. Get them Commies! :sniper:

Get them Commies! :sniper:
See everyone what I meant about the damage of McCarthyism still not having been repaired?

That was a joke.

And, no, I really don't.

What's with the Nixon and Clinton bashing? Sure, they made a few mistakes. Does that make them terrible people? No! Not in the least bit. They were great presidents.

No, they most definitely were not.

People complain about the war in Iraq now, then go around and start talking about how horrible Nixon was. He had the guts to get us out of Vietnam for God's sake!

Nixon was elected in 1968. US forces ceased direct involvement in Vietnam in 1973 - five years later, after the invasion of Cambodia, after hundreds of thousands more innocents were killed.

Clinton was a great president, no matter what he did.

Why, exactly?

Nixon was the only president getting caught doing what he did. And he really didn't do it, either. He was the Republican Party's scapegoat.

Okay, there's some truth to that. Still doesn't excuse what he did in Vietnam and Cambodia.

And the Ronald Reagan bashing makes me sick to my stomach as well. He was a brilliant president.

Ronald Reagan was responsible for countless atrocities in Central America in order to prevent the possibility of a social order that might actually feed the poor and treat the sick. He was a ruthless mass murderer.

He bankrupted the Soviet Union using very little money, if any at all. Get them Commies! :sniper:

"Using very little money, if any at all"? Are you aware of what happened to government spending and the federal deficit under Reagan?

Although I can't do better than Keruvalia's and Bakristan's lists, here's mine

Joe McCarthy -- concoted a witch hunt, ruined people's lives for his own gain

Eric Rudolph (the Olympics bomber), Ted Kazcynsky (the Unibomber), Timothy McVeigh (the OKC bomber), and John Walker Lindh (the American Taliban) -- I get pissed off at the government sometimes, too. I don't go around killing people or taking arms against the country because of it. Rudolph gets a special mention because anyone who commits atrocities and claims they're doing it in God's name is not only a traitor, he's also a blasphemer

Andrew Jackson & Martin Van Buren -- The Indian Removal Act and the Trail of Tears have earned them a special place in Hell

J. Edgar Hoover -- Would have made a good SS officer. Was also a cross-dressing hypocrite

Louis Farrahkan & Al Sharpton -- Martin Luther King is spinning in his grave

Ralph Reed -- power through perversion of religion, and being sneaky about it behind the scenes

Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Michael Savage, Bill O'Reilly, Ann Coulter and others like them -- spreading divisiveness in the name of ratings

Michael Moore -- makes the Left look bad

Karl Rove -- power hungry, totally lacking in scruples

Pat Robertson & Jerry Falwell -- giving religion a bad name

Richard Nixon -- 'nuff said

Nathan Bedford Forrest -- others have covered this

Ronald Reagan -- Supply side and communism have something in common: both looked better on paper than they did put into practice. And his foreign policy in Latin America cost how many lives?

people who think that all the poor are lazy bastards who won't get a job.

people who think that the erosion of civil rights in the name of "national security" is acceptable

people who think that disagreeing with the President makes one a traitor in and of itself

Wow, that was way more than 10, wasn't it? Sorry.

No, they most definitely were not.

Your (incorrect) opinion.


Nixon was elected in 1968. US forces ceased direct involvement in Vietnam in 1973 - five years later, after the invasion of Cambodia, after hundreds of thousands more innocents were killed.

Statistically speaking, we won the war in Vietnam. The only reason we pulled out is because the enemy had an unlimited supply of soldiers being smuggled into the country. And of course it took five years to cease involvment in Vietnam. Don't wars take more than 5 minutes? A war can't exactly go terribly wrong in 6 minutes (except when Israel completely wiped out Egypt's air force in 6 minutes). My point is, he got us out of Vietnam when we realized it was getting bad.

Why, exactly?

Know something about a president before you say he's a bad one. Over 20,000,000 new jobs. He fought against genocide until his public support dwindled. After that, he had to watch Rwandan genocide happen. If he had gone in, Americans would've been in a state of uproar because 16 US soldiers would've had to die to save those poor people.

Ronald Reagan was responsible for countless atrocities in Central America in order to prevent the possibility of a social order that might actually feed the poor and treat the sick. He was a ruthless mass murderer.

Truth stretched, twisted, scribbled on with a Crayola Marker running low on ink, ripped in half, taped back together, and then thrown at me.

"Using very little money, if any at all"? Are you aware of what happened to government spending and the federal deficit under Reagan?

Indeed, there is a very grey area on how much money we spent on the "bombs" we told Russia that we had. I will admit to you that much. Most of what we told them were lies, and that's what bankrupted them. Telling a lie doesn't fill up an entire federal deficit, does it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bakristan
I've left out Joe McCarthy and people who predate him... mainly because I think a healthy nation does need to have a statute of limitations where individual assholes are concerned. For our own sake, not theirs.

Quote:
It's pretty obvious that there was no commie threat, and that his actions (which by the way were more to profit him than the country) did a lot more damage than they could've made up for.

I can't blame most of you for the awful text books that you all must read this stuff about McCarthyism. I think McCarthy was listed the most by everyone here as most hated American. Pretty sad most people don't know that when the Soviet Union broke up and we came across the Venona Cables, it basically showed that everyone McCarthy claimed was a communist was and in fact there were more he didn't name. I'm holding out that history may yet show McCarthy to be an American hero. He's a hero on my list.

I can't make a specific list except I hate haters (except "hate" is such a strong word).

I can't blame most of you for the awful text books that you all must read this stuff about McCarthyism. I think McCarthy was listed the most by everyone here as most hated American. Pretty sad most people don't know that when the Soviet Union broke up and we came across the Venona Cables, it basically showed that everyone McCarthy claimed was a communist was and in fact there were more he didn't name. I'm holding out that history may yet show McCarthy to be an American hero. He's a hero on my list.

I can't make a specific list except I hate haters (except "hate" is such a strong word).

I have to call Bullshit on that one. McCarthy did a great deal to screw up this country. Look at the China Hands situation.

You seem to have forgotten it was not illegal to be a communist.

And the people that turned out to be commies were already know to be so.

How about the fact he had no viewpoints of communism until it was time for elections?

Never mind the fact he tried to label Ike and Murrow as commie sympathisers.

Hmmm reading Annie C's version of history?

-------
From a previous suggestion that he was an American "hero"

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=9308521&postcount=30

Richard Nixon, for the murder of Chilean democracy and of Salvador Allende
Joe McCarthy, for the murder and persecution of people who disagreed with him
Ronald Reagan, for fucking up world economy
Rupert Murdoch, for brainwashing people
George Bush, for having done a war for oil
George W. Bush, for having done another war for oil
Pat Robertson, for having call publically to the murder of an elected president, Hugo Chavez
Harry Truman, for having used not one but two atomic bombs
William Henry 'Bill' Gates, for his constant attacks against Free Software

I'll stop at 9, because this list needs someone involved in slaughtering native americans, and I don't know any name that could fit :/

I'll stop at 9, because this list needs someone involved in slaughtering native americans, and I don't know any name that could fit :/


Gen. Nelson Miles. He led the soldiers responsible for the massacre at Wounded Knee.

I can't blame most of you for the awful text books that you all must read this stuff about McCarthyism. I think McCarthy was listed the most by everyone here as most hated American. Pretty sad most people don't know that when the Soviet Union broke up and we came across the Venona Cables, it basically showed that everyone McCarthy claimed was a communist was and in fact there were more he didn't name.

Newsflash. That "list" of McCarthy's was a blank piece of paper.

Incidentally, provide a credible source for your assertions.

I'll stop at 9, because this list needs someone involved in slaughtering native americans, and I don't know any name that could fit :/

"The only good indian, is a dead indian, and I'm dedicated to the idea of a lot of dead indians."

-Andrew Jackson.


Hows that?

Any right wing conservative

Whoa, 10 only? That's by far not enough, so I'll just do it like this:

- Dubya, his dad &Co. as well as the entire rest of the equally retarded government
- all retards that support Bush & Co.
- all the Christian right-wing looneys
- all the other Conservative morons
- all the other insanely fanatic Christians
- all the braindead Puritans

There are probably some overlappings, but this should cover the majority of the most retarded people.

Robert E Lee? Worst American? I disagree.
Ok, the gloryification of the man by Right wing Southern idiots is ott, but he was the most successful general of his time, a brilliant military mind, a staunch anti slavery abolitionist and only sided with the Confederacy because he saw the Union actions as those of an imperial power in waiting.

So couldn't disagree more on that one

Robert E Lee? Worst American? I disagree.
Ok, the gloryification of the man by Right wing Southern idiots is ott, but he was the most successful general of his time, a brilliant military mind, a staunch anti slavery abolitionist and only sided with the Confederacy because he saw the Union actions as those of an imperial power in waiting.

So couldn't disagree more on that one
NICE! Someone with a grasp of history NOT manufactured in Hollywood.

7] People who believe it is not only their right, but their moral obligation, to tell me how to raise my children.



i agree to all your other points, but this one is tricky. what if your idea of raising your children was beat them up to teach them lessons? or if you tell your daughter that familial intimacy involves sexual relations with the males -heck even the other females? if i found out you do these things, certainly, i would feel it would be my moral obligation to stop you in the act and report you to the authorities if that doesn't do any good. it would not be MY right, but your children's i'd be concerned about.

i agree to all your other points, but this one is tricky. what if your idea of raising your children was beat them up to teach them lessons? or if you tell your daughter that familial intimacy involves sexual relations with the males -heck even the other females? if i found out you do these things, certainly, i would feel it would be my moral obligation to stop you in the act and report you to the authorities if that doesn't do any good. it would not be MY right, but your children's i'd be concerned about.

Ok, well, children have certain inalienable rights, and those are the right to be safe, be fed, and be loved. If, as a parent, I were denying or abridging those rights, I fully expect the law to crush me.

What I meant was things like people telling me that not getting my son's hair buzz cutted is gonna make him gay or that I should be ashamed of myself for not teaching the kids about Jesus.

5) President Richard Nixon and President Bill Clinton – Began the degradation of the standards of those who hold office / The epitome of the degradation of the standards of those who hold office.

What standards?

The only standards are that the President be a natural born US citizen of at least 35 years of age and have lived in the country for 14 years.

He can be a drunken, coke-head, wife beating, mullet sporting, devil worshipping, Communist convicted felon and as long as he's 35, lived here for 14 years, and is a natural citizen, he can be President.

He can be a drunken, coke-head, wife beating, mullet sporting, devil worshipping, Communist convicted felon and as long as he's 35, lived here for 14 years, and is a natural citizen, he can be President.



Sadly, that's exactly what people would elect if he were charasmatic enough to sell himself.

Woodrow Wilson - http://www.lewrockwell.com/stromberg/stromberg18.html

and many of the others already listed

Rupert Murdoch ? but he is an australian
yeah.
What the hel is wrong with Nathan Bedford Forrest?

10 Patton
9 McCarthy
8 John Wilkes-Booth
7 FDR
6 McArthur
5 Hoover
4 Mei Lei Massacre Commander
3 Einstein
2 Lord Haw Haw
1 Mark Clarke

Joe McCarthy.

7)Howard Stern - Champion of free speech? Hardly. Just a child who wants to make waves.

He even admits that he's just having fun. Watch his autobiographical movie (along with interviews), Private Parts, and you'll see him for who he really is: A good guy who just wants to have some fun.

Joe McCarthy.
:fluffle:

:fluffle:

I want to take a dump in his grave. Seriously.

In no particular order, some of the worst Americans of the past fifty-odd years:

Micheal Moore (for being a self-righteous prick)

Ann Coulter (for being a self-righteous ****)

George W Bush (duh)

Richard M Nixon (Single-handedly destroyed the optimism and trust-in-government of a whole generation and nearly bringing down our government)

Ronald Reagan (Nicaragua/Iran-Contras. Nuff said. His aid to Macarthy's allies in the House of Representatives is also disgusting.)

John F Kennedy (for Vietnam)

Eisenhower (for destroying Iran's democratic government and having the Shah installed as a dictator, leading us to today's nonsense)

Dick Cheney (for killing the F-14, among other things)

Macarthy (there's something to be said about a facist who has lent his name to a form of 'justice' synonomous with tasks of the Holy Roman Inquisition)

Hillary Clinton (yes, Missus Clinton, clearly too many video games and too many guns make Johnny a violent boy. Which explains why I've killed so many people)

I want to take a dump in his grave. Seriously.
I do not condone the desecration of graves.
*Mostly*

What standards?

The only standards are that the President be a natural born US citizen of at least 35 years of age and have lived in the country for 14 years.

He can be a drunken, coke-head, wife beating, mullet sporting, devil worshipping, Communist convicted felon and as long as he's 35, lived here for 14 years, and is a natural citizen, he can be President.

I wasn't aware that GWB had a mullet...:D

1 . People stupid enough that warnings like "do not eat" have to be printed on packages of dessicant found in shoe boxes and drain cleaner.

2. Anyone who brings up the Big Bang in an Evolution discussion.

3. That girl I fell for years and years ago who said to me "I wish I could meet someone just like you."

4. People who dismiss the incredibly complex, chaotic and mercurial topic of Climate Change based almost entirely on the word of those speaking about the complex, chaotic and mercurial topic of Economics.

5. Women who are not fat who constantly complain about being fat (specifically those who are fishing for a compliment or affirmation, not those with actual eating disorders.)

6. Men and women who ARE fat who feed their fat children McDonalds all the time. THAT'S an item that needs the warning "do not eat," or at least, "do not eat often."

7. People who drive a car to the gym and then sit on the excercise bike.

8. People who make lists.

9. People who don't finish what they start.

In no order at all,

G.W. Bush
R.M. Nixon
H.S. Truman
Abe Lincoln
B. Arnold
M. Jackson
W. Allen
C. Rize
J. Seinfeld
W. Wilson

Some of the Best,

U.S. Grant
W.T. Sherman
R.E. Lee
T.J. Jackson
J. Johnston
R.G. Shaw
G. Washington
J.L. Chamberlain
J.F. Kennedy
J. Longstreet
Wyatt Earp
G. Custer
Geronimo
....

Any right wing conservative

:) Truly? Wierd, I was going to say 'Left-wing Liberal hippies'.

:) Truly? Wierd, I was going to say 'Left-wing Liberal hippies'.

Yes, because hippies are so violent...

Only when they have access to plastic explosives.

Only when they have access to plastic explosives.

Only because they try to make bongs out of it.

I've four. I could likely think up more, and I should likely include myself, but I don't have the time nor the anti-depressants to do so.

1. Scott, my boss at the drive-thru I work who wants me to work during the Alabama-Texas Tech game. Heresy! (at least he isn't defaming the sacred Buckeye name, though)

2. Rodney, the drunk who used to come through the drive-thru everyday in the summer (6-pack 16oz. Busch, hard pack Marlboro lights. Every time.), who had a car accident in the fall. I wonder if he was nursing along his fourth or fifth can of booze at the time...

3. Brad Pitt For raising the ladies' expectations so horrendously high I'll never get it on with so much as a toaster--and even that I'd have to tip well.

4. Various people that come through the drive-thru and respond to my "Hi there, what can I do for you?" shtick with "a 6-pack of such and such beer". As sexually attracted as I am to beer bottles, I'm not going to "do a 6 pack of beer". It'd take forever and I don't have nearly enough condoms.

3. Brad Pitt For raising the ladies' expectations so horrendously high I'll never get it on with so much as a toaster--and even that I'd have to tip well.
Don't sweat that one. Hell, most hetero males want to nail someone who looks like Angelina Jolie, but most are lucky if they get Roseanne Barr.

Statistically speaking, we won the war in Vietnam.

Meaning what?

My point is, he got us out of Vietnam when we realized it was getting bad.

It was "getting bad" the day it began. Since it was a miserable failure as well as a fundamentally immoral war, Nixon can most definitely be blamed for extending it.

Truth stretched, twisted, scribbled on with a Crayola Marker running low on ink, ripped in half, taped back together, and then thrown at me.

Sorry, Reagan averted the grievous and imminent threat posed by Nicaragua and Grenada to the US. Is that better?

Meaning what?
I'll be fucked if I know. The only rubric I consider when determining if a war was "successful" (i.e. if we won) is whether or not the primary, long-term objective was met. In Vietnam, according to the people who got us in there and kept us there (Ike, JFK, LBJ, Nixon), that objective was a stable democratic government. Considering that not long after US forces pulled out, the puppet regime we'd installed fell to the communist regime we'd been fighting for decades, I'd say we failed in that objective. No other statistic matters in my eyes.

Keruvalia's Worst Americans:

1] People who believe that English should be the only language allowed in the US.

2] People who are eligable to, but do not, vote.

3] People who believe their right to own a firearm is more important than another's right to be free from illegal search and seizure.

4] People who believe their right to be free from illegal search and seizure is more important than another's right to own a firearm.

5] People who believe the poor should just "get over it".

6] People who believe the arts is not a "real job".

7] People who believe it is not only their right, but their moral obligation, to tell me how to raise my children.

8] People who believe they can tell me, a grown man, what I can and cannot watch on television. (I'm lookin' at you, FCC)

9] People who forget that what is past is prologue.

10] People who drape themselves in the flag, but have absolutely no fuckin' clue what those stars and stripes truely mean.

If you fall into any of the above, sorry. I genuinely feel sad for your mama.

Mraeiou!

As for #3 & #4... Illegally search for my claws and I will show them to your face...

yeah.
What the hel is wrong with Nathan Bedford Forrest?

10 Patton
9 McCarthy
8 John Wilkes-Booth
7 FDR
6 McArthur
5 Hoover
4 Mei Lei Massacre Commander
3 Einstein
2 Lord Haw Haw
1 Mark Clarke


Nathan Bedford Forrest is the "patriot" who founded the KKK.

Lt. Calley commanded at My Lai.

Lord Haw Haw wasn't an American. If you want his equivalent in the USA, go with Tokyo Rose or Axis Sally.

Nathan Bedford Forrest is the "patriot" who founded the KKK.
My assumption was that he didn't have any problem with Forrest. I hope I'm wrong.

It's pretty obvious that there was no commie threat, and that his actions (which by the way were more to profit him than the country) did a lot more damage than they could've made up for.
Oh, there definitely was a "commie threat," just not where "Tail-gunner Joe" said it was, and not to the degree he claimed.

[QUOTE=Soheran]This is not meant to be a list of the "worst" Americans, but merely of a number I consider to be rather bad.

1. SNIP
2. SNIP
3. SNIP
4. SNIP
5. Lyndon Johnson - began the Vietnam War
6. SNIP
7. SNIP
8. SNIP
9. SNIP
10. SNIP

SNIP

If you believe #5 you need to spend some time with a few good history books.

My assumption was that he didn't have any problem with Forrest. I hope I'm wrong.


I'm trying to give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he just didn't know who Forrest was. I hope you're wrong, too. But you never know.

[QUOTE=Soheran]This is not meant to be a list of the "worst" Americans, but merely of a number I consider to be rather bad.

1. SNIP
2. SNIP
3. SNIP
4. SNIP
5. Lyndon Johnson - began the Vietnam War
6. SNIP
7. SNIP
8. SNIP
9. SNIP
10. SNIP

SNIP

If you believe #5 you need to spend some time with a few good history books.

Incorrect. LBJ escalated it.

Statistically speaking, we won the war in Vietnam. The only reason we pulled out is because the enemy had an unlimited supply of soldiers being smuggled into the country. And of course it took five years to cease involvment in Vietnam. Don't wars take more than 5 minutes? A war can't exactly go terribly wrong in 6 minutes (except when Israel completely wiped out Egypt's air force in 6 minutes). My point is, he got us out of Vietnam when we realized it was getting bad.


Sorry to burst your bubble but VietNam was a loss. The Soldier count means nothing. China has an endless supply of soldiers to overwelm Korea and yet that was fought to a ceasefire.

We left because the people didn't support the war anymore. Heck the departure from Saigon was not exactly calm.

Joe McCarthy - should have been content being ol' number one hundred.

Timmothy McVeigh - no explanation needed

Bill O'Reily - racist remarks against the French, calling the anti-defamation league militant after refusing to appologize for a somewhat anti-semetic remark made on national television, and now the 'War on Christmas'.

Joe Liberman - could this guy at least take one coherent position? please? and lay off on the banning video games thing.

George W. Bush - don't even get me started on this one, and before you start whining about me being a knee-jerk liberal, notice that Nixon managed to escape this list.

Dick Cheney - take his first name and you've got this guy's personality in a nutshell.

Nathan Bedford Forrest - I saw this guy already made a couple of lists, he shouldn't mind being on one more.

Hillary Clinton - what a horrible icon for the democratic party. I think she is possibly the only democrat capable of losing the presidential election in 2008, which is saying something. I have the same problem with her as with Liberman: find out what you want to get done and stick with it (no, winning an election doesn't count).

Bill Gates - Times gave him man of the year, I'll give him shame of the year. Congrats, you took somebody else's operating system for fifty grand, 'sold' it to a couple dozen companies, then used it to make yourself rich. And if that wasn't enough, Microsoft decided to gurantee that nobody was allowed to even attempt to produce a competitive operating system without being pushed out of the market or bought out. Sure he's giving away some money, but that's all his wife's idea, and besides, half of it shouldn't be his anyways.

Pat Robertson - Praying for people's deaths isn't a very Christian thing to do, is it?

Oh, there definitely was a "commie threat," just not where "Tail-gunner Joe" said it was, and not to the degree he claimed.
Yeah, it was on the other side of the world, where real people had to deal with real Communism. In the US, they fought the labour unions.

I'd like to add Curtis LeMay and Douglas McArthur for not only killing many innocent people, but also repeatedly risking WWIII.

And Patton for being a pompous dickhead and still being admired today.

And Patton for being a pompous dickhead and still being admired today.

Hmmmm a German that doesn't like Patton? How would have thought? ;)

If it's only for being a pompous dickhead then you can add about 1/2 the planet. :)

Worst Americans in Business: 21st Century

1. Ken Lay
2. Jeffery Skilling
3. Frank Quattrone
4. Jeff Grubman
5. Henry Blodget
6. Lisa Buyer
7. Bernard Ebbers
8. Joseph Nacchio
9. John Forney
10. Gary Winnick

Hmmmm a German that doesn't like Patton? How would have thought? ;)

If it's only for being a pompous dickhead then you can add about 1/2 the planet. :)
Well, you could add that probably the only General less capable was Omar Bradley.
Patton has achieved absolutely nothing but slow down progress for months. If Patton had not been the egomaniac he was, and if Eisenhower had not been the US-centric he was, Montgomery probably would've been in Berlin by Christmas 1944, thus saving thousands and thousands of German civilians, German, Russian and Allied troops - and he would have prevented the partition of Germany.
Instead, Patton managed to get his arse kicked for as long as the weather was bad in the Ardennes, his "great achievement" being that he moved his troops around (w00t, if you want to see maneuvering, look no further than the Eastern Front) - and only winning once the weather cleared up again and the USAF could attack the German troops which were stuck without fuel and ammunition.
Add to that that Patton was apparently mentally ill, that he lost ridiculous amounts of his own people both in Italy and in France and that he had the sheer audacity to pretend he'd won the war by himself - and I think you have a clear contender for the most overrated person in history, and IMHO one of the worst Americans I could think of then.

NICE! Someone with a grasp of history NOT manufactured in Hollywood.


Thanks I'm still waiting for the Mel Gibson film to fuck it all up though... :p

yeah.
What the hel is wrong with Nathan Bedford Forrest?

10 Patton
9 McCarthy
8 John Wilkes-Booth
7 FDR
6 McArthur
5 Hoover
4 Mei Lei Massacre Commander
3 Einstein
2 Lord Haw Haw
1 Mark Clarke

Why would you put Eins-- ooooooooooooooooh. Right.

But I recently heard that the scientists in nazi germany were pretty close to making a nuclear reactor themselves, but luckily US soldiers stopped them.

But come on, the worst? He did do some good stuff too, like his thing with Brownian movement, the photoelectric effect, spacial theory of relativity, the general theory of relativity, and helping to answer why the heck the sky is blue.

If you believe #5 you need to spend some time with a few good history books.

Fair enough. Let me rephrase:

Lyndon Johnson began direct large-scale US military involvement in the Vietnam War.

Well, you could add that probably the only General less capable was Omar Bradley.
Patton has achieved absolutely nothing but slow down progress for months. If Patton had not been the egomaniac he was, and if Eisenhower had not been the US-centric he was, Montgomery probably would've been in Berlin by Christmas 1944, thus saving thousands and thousands of German civilians, German, Russian and Allied troops - and he would have prevented the partition of Germany.


Too bad Market Garden puts a damper on that claim.

However, "What if's" are fun.

Hmmm? You one of those "The americans really didn't do anything in WWII" types?

Speaking of Mel Gibson, isn't he a naturalised American?

If so he goes straight to the top of the list, only for the Patriot being one of the most god-awful misrepresentations of history ever and the Passion of the Christ being a two hour snuff movie, not to mention complete shite. And his new one is all in ancient Mayan! Yey! Let me try to contain my excitment you jumped up Antipodean prat. :rolleyes:

Speaking of Mel Gibson, isn't he a naturalised American?

If so he goes straight to the top of the list, only for the Patriot being one of the most god-awful misrepresentations of history ever and the Passion of the Christ being a two hour snuff movie, not to mention complete shite. And his new one is all in ancient Mayan! Yey! Let me try to contain my excitment you jumped up Antipodean prat. :rolleyes:

Actually he was born in New York.

Actually he was born in New York.

Definately top of my personal shit list then.

Also featuring Speilberg, Rick Berman and Jeri Taylor for thinking Voyager was a good pitch for a Trek show, Nathan Bedford Forrest for wallowing in the dark ages, GWB for being a moron, the asshole who cancelled Family Guy, and Ike for not bitch slapping Montgomery and Patton and reminding the two of them that it was a war not a popularity contest

-People who Vent their Political anger through stupid ass threads, such as this one.
-White Supremacists
-Democrats and Republicans who can't find it on their Agenda to help each other, but only to rip each other apart.

So many to choose from, so hear are my picks in no particular order. I have tried to spread it around a bit and not just confine it to political figures.:

1. Lyndon Baines Johnson-OK. He'll be my "obvious" presidential scapegoat. For all the obvious reasons.

2. Charlie Manson-satisfies the serial killer quota.

3. Jimmy Swaggart-Fulfills the religious hypocrite category.

4. W.H. Carothers' Laboratory- They invented polyester. Anyone who lived through the 1970's KNOWS what I mean. This fulfills the "Tongue in cheek" category.;)

5. Jane Fonda-Again...pretty obvious why.

6. Michael Moore/Rush Limbaugh-These guys are interchangeable. They are both large (or formerly large) sensationalists who have greatly politically polarized America to it's own detriment and at their own great enrichment. The exude a foul and unpleasant odor and I loathe them.

7. Dennis Kozlowski- Fills the corporate swindler category.

8. John Wilkes Booth- What this man did was despicable. He set the US back by a decade and created over 100 ears of animosity with a single shot. Robert E. Lee even thought he was evil. Lincoln was the best hope and the only mand with the political clout to repair the country after the civil war, and Booth killed him.

9. JFK- Fulfills the "not so obvious" presidential category. Let's face it: He hung the refugees out to dry during the Bay of Pigs, nearly got us involved in a nuclear exchange during the Cuban Missle Crisis, commited troops to Vietnam and was sleeping with the girlfriend of a Mafia don as well as an East German spy (not while president). I am amazed that things turned out as well as they did.

10. The Rosenbergs-Yeah, they were mentioned before. Nobody likes a traitor.

I saw this on Lawyers, Guns and Money (http://lefarkins.blogspot.com) and figured it would start quite a discussion here, since this board has quite a wide array in political sensibility. Here are the rules I'm planning on following.

1. I won't pick anyone who was a bastard before the US existed (i.e. Benedict Arnold).

2. Naturalized citizens are fair game.

3. No flaming of the choices of others. Respectful disagreement only, please, and try to keep the rolling eye smiley usage at a minimum.

4. Remember--to hit this list, the person has to have done something spectacular. Even if you think that person was great, he/she may wind up on another's list precisely because that thing you find spectacular, others may find abominable. I say this because I'm willing to bet FDR hits someone's list on the front page, and I couldn't disagree more.

5. Mine won't be in any particular order.

6. Tell us why you think your choices belong on the list--none of this "if you don't know why, you're an idiot" crap.

So, without further adieu, here's my list of ten worst Americans (and I know I'll miss someone big).

J. Edgar Hoover Yeah, I'm stealing from the blog I got the meme from--sue me. If there was a greater enemy of civil rights for no other reason than the gain of personal power, I don't know one.

Rupert Murdoch He's done more damage to modern journalism than even Paddy Chayefsky could have imagined in his worst nightmares.

Richard Nixon He was the first modern president to argue for imperial power. If George W. Bush pisses you off, Nixon's why.

Nathan Bedford Forrest Another one I'm ripping off of the original list, for precisely the same reason--he fought to destroy the union, and then fought the only good things to come out of that war.

Joe McCarthy Utterly shameless in his persecution of people who either disagreed with him politically, or who stood up for their First Amendment rights.

Andrew Jackson The genocide of native peoples at his hands is an atrocity this nation still hasn't come to terms with.

Rush Limbaugh This was a tossup between him and O'Reilly--Limbaugh's been around longer and made people like O'Reilly possible, so he gets the nod. If there's been a single person more responsible for the divisiveness of contemporary US politics, I don't know who it is. He's a liar and a hypocrite and he's been rewarded beyond the dreams of avarice for it.

Robert E. Lee More for what southerners have made out of him than for his own actions, which were bad enough in my book. The lionization of him as the epitome of southern manhood, however, has helped keed the south from coming to grips with its past for the last one hundred-fifty years.

Lou Pearlman He's the fucker who gave us the Backstreet Boys, among others.

Andrew Volstead Authored the Volstead Act, also known as Prohibition. Anyone who hates getting lit so bad that he wants to keep everyone from doing it is an asshole in every sense of the word.

Let's see who makes your lists.

Robert E. Lee was a good guy, he fought for his home and his family, he woulda fought for the Union if his state hadn't left the union. He free'd his slaves before the war, and treated blacks much on the same level as he did whites. He was a good guy.

Nathan Bedford Forrest, while he did some things which aren't the greatest, he did try to break up the KKK before it became what it was in the 50's, 60's.



My List:

Franklin Delanor Roosevelt: Greatest Salesman of Socialism in America. This guy did everything he could to destroy the American dream. He also tried to become a dictator by trying to get to appoint another Supreme Court Justice, tipping the Supreme Court in his favor.

Andrew Jackson: The First Democratic President. The man has been a idol for all Democrat Presidents on his policies of race.

Abraham Lincoln: Suspended the Writ of Habeaus Corpous. The man was a tyrant, he kept the Maryland legislature from meeting, he "watched" over elections, he caused the American Civil War, by pushing the South, arrested news paper editors that wrote out against him, and arrested the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court for disagreeing with him. He free'd slaves where he didn't have the power to do so, and the rest were left in bondage.

Bill Clinton: The man committed perjury and should have been held accountable. He acted completely irresponsible in both foreign affairs, and in court. He refused to act after America was repeatedly attacked by terrorists, and he allowed the EU to order American planes to begin bombing in Kosovo, during that conflict there. (He also stole an Ottoman from the Whitehouse worth about 28,000 dollars.)

These four are my top four, and the only ones really worth mentioning.

Too bad Market Garden puts a damper on that claim.
Which was severely weakened by the decision not to put it all into Monty's plan and instead try two things at once, thanks to Patton pushing for it and Eisenhower listening.
Market Garden was a failure because it was not undertaken as the offensive to end the war. It was done because Eisenhower was pressured, and yet couldn't decide, in the end preferring to drop a sound plan in favour of two half-arsed attempts at doing the same thing.

Hmmm? You one of those "The americans really didn't do anything in WWII" types?
No, I'd be one of those "the Western Allies really didn't do anything in WWII" types.
Barring that, I'm one of those "the Western Armies didn't do anything, but their air forces did" types.

Choose one, and I'll argue accordingly.

In no particular order.

1. Paul Wolfowitz
2. Donald Rumsfeld
3. Dick Cheney
4. Pat Robertson
5. George W. Bush
6. John Bolton
7. Elliott Abrams
8. William Kristol
9. Rush Limbaugh
10. Steve Forbes


Bigots, neo-cons, ignorants, liars, war-criminals and imperlialists.

What's wrong with Joe McCarthy? What's wrong with wanting to weed subversives out of the government? Each and every last person McCarthy said was a communist was one, and the majority were Soviet spies. However, if they had been Nazi spies, and Nazis ended up getting "ruined," you wouldn't hear left-wing hypocrites complaining. Apparently, it's okay to be loyal to a hostile foreign power, so long as the hostile power in question isn't fascist or Nazi.

Which was severely weakened by the decision not to put it all into Monty's plan and instead try two things at once, thanks to Patton pushing for it and Eisenhower listening.
Market Garden was a failure because it was not undertaken as the offensive to end the war. It was done because Eisenhower was pressured, and yet couldn't decide, in the end preferring to drop a sound plan in favour of two half-arsed attempts at doing the same thing.

Ok....whatever......


No, I'd be one of those "the Western Allies really didn't do anything in WWII" types.
Barring that, I'm one of those "the Western Armies didn't do anything, but their air forces did" types.

Choose one, and I'll argue accordingly.

Nahh. I am not in the mood and it would hijack the thread.....

What's wrong with Joe McCarthy? What's wrong with wanting to weed subversives out of the government? Each and every last person McCarthy said was a communist was one, and the majority were Soviet spies.

He said Ronald Reagan was a communist.

Ummmm ... yeah.

He said Ronald Reagan was a communist.

Ummmm ... yeah.

Source?

What's wrong with Joe McCarthy? What's wrong with wanting to weed subversives out of the government? Each and every last person McCarthy said was a communist was one, and the majority were Soviet spies. However, if they had been Nazi spies, and Nazis ended up getting "ruined," you wouldn't hear left-wing hypocrites complaining. Apparently, it's okay to be loyal to a hostile foreign power, so long as the hostile power in question isn't fascist or Nazi.

Eww I think that counts as a Godwin.

Too bad it was not illegal to be a communist.

Too bad the majority were in Hollywood. Guess they weren't too smart for spies.

Joe was an idiot who set up the problems we have today.

We would support any despot as long as they said Commies were bad.

Hell if Sadaam had been saying the Soviets were evil, we would have supported him.....

I saw this on Lawyers, Guns and Money (http://lefarkins.blogspot.com) and figured it would start quite a discussion here, since this board has quite a wide array in political sensibility. Here are the rules I'm planning on following.

1. I won't pick anyone who was a bastard before the US existed (i.e. Benedict Arnold).

2. Naturalized citizens are fair game.

3. No flaming of the choices of others. Respectful disagreement only, please, and try to keep the rolling eye smiley usage at a minimum.

4. Remember--to hit this list, the person has to have done something spectacular. Even if you think that person was great, he/she may wind up on another's list precisely because that thing you find spectacular, others may find abominable. I say this because I'm willing to bet FDR hits someone's list on the front page, and I couldn't disagree more.

5. Mine won't be in any particular order.

6. Tell us why you think your choices belong on the list--none of this "if you don't know why, you're an idiot" crap.

So, without further adieu, here's my list of ten worst Americans (and I know I'll miss someone big).

J. Edgar Hoover Yeah, I'm stealing from the blog I got the meme from--sue me. If there was a greater enemy of civil rights for no other reason than the gain of personal power, I don't know one.

Rupert Murdoch He's done more damage to modern journalism than even Paddy Chayefsky could have imagined in his worst nightmares.

Richard Nixon He was the first modern president to argue for imperial power. If George W. Bush pisses you off, Nixon's why.

Nathan Bedford Forrest Another one I'm ripping off of the original list, for precisely the same reason--he fought to destroy the union, and then fought the only good things to come out of that war.

Joe McCarthy Utterly shameless in his persecution of people who either disagreed with him politically, or who stood up for their First Amendment rights.

Andrew Jackson The genocide of native peoples at his hands is an atrocity this nation still hasn't come to terms with.

Rush Limbaugh This was a tossup between him and O'Reilly--Limbaugh's been around longer and made people like O'Reilly possible, so he gets the nod. If there's been a single person more responsible for the divisiveness of contemporary US politics, I don't know who it is. He's a liar and a hypocrite and he's been rewarded beyond the dreams of avarice for it.

Robert E. Lee More for what southerners have made out of him than for his own actions, which were bad enough in my book. The lionization of him as the epitome of southern manhood, however, has helped keed the south from coming to grips with its past for the last one hundred-fifty years.

Lou Pearlman He's the fucker who gave us the Backstreet Boys, among others.

Andrew Volstead Authored the Volstead Act, also known as Prohibition. Anyone who hates getting lit so bad that he wants to keep everyone from doing it is an asshole in every sense of the word.

Let's see who makes your lists.

Explain to me why bush is not on that list.

Eww I think that counts as a Godwin.

Too bad it was not illegal to be a communist.

Newsflash: The CPUSA was funded by the U.S.S.R. No, being a communist wasn't illegal, but belonging to an organization funded by and loyal to a hostile foreign power can certainly be considered subversive.

Too bad the majority were in Hollywood. Guess they weren't too smart for spies.

The communists McCarthy went after were ones in the government, not Hollywood.

Joe was an idiot who set up the problems we have today.

Bet you wouldn't be saying that if he had gone after fascist spies.

We would support any despot as long as they said Commies were bad.

In most cases, only lukewarm support. We were ready to dump them sooner or later when it suited us.

Hell if Sadaam had been saying the Soviets were evil, we would have supported him.....

Saddam didn't say the Soviets were evil. But we supported him anyway.

He said Ronald Reagan was a communist.

Ummmm ... yeah.

Ewww are you sure? Reagan was more or less his ideological heir. He was a hawk and very anti-communist. He even testified before HUAC in 47......

Ewww are you sure? Reagan was more or less his ideological heir. He was a hawk and very anti-communist. He even testified before HUAC in 47......

Reagan used to be quite leftist. Note the words "used to be."

He changed from a democratic socialist and pro-communist to be an ultra-hawkish neocon later on.

Reverend Phelps.

Also, whoever it was that discovered tobacco could grow in Virginia. Fucker made slavery possible in the U.S., thus leading to the racial instability we feel even today.

Explain to me why bush is not on that list.
No one from the current administration is on the list because I think it's unfair to judge political leaders on their long term effects while they're still in office. I will say that once they, and by they I mean the administration as a whole, leave office, chances are very strong that they'd make a similar list.

The communists McCarthy went after were ones in the government, not Hollywood.
This statement alone shows that you don't know what the fuck you're talking about. Hollywood actors, screenwriters and directors were all blacklisted because of the answers they gave or refused to give during McCarthy's witchhunt.

[QUOTE=Droskianishk]Robert E. Lee was a good guy, he fought for his home and his family, he woulda fought for the Union if his state hadn't left the union. He free'd his slaves before the war, and treated blacks much on the same level as he did whites. He was a good guy.

Amen. RE Lee was a decent, honest man with only a sense of duty and honour sticking him in the bad guy category for the last century and a half

Nathan Bedford Forrest, while he did some things which aren't the greatest, he did try to break up the KKK before it became what it was in the 50's, 60's.

Disagree with that Forrest set up the Klan. He was and always will be scum

Abraham Lincoln: Suspended the Writ of Habeaus Corpous. The man was a tyrant, he kept the Maryland legislature from meeting, he "watched" over elections, he caused the American Civil War, by pushing the South, arrested news paper editors that wrote out against him, and arrested the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court for disagreeing with him. He free'd slaves where he didn't have the power to do so, and the rest were left in bondage.

Damn straight. Lincoln destroyed the Union and created the United States of America. What I mean is that before the civil war, the Union was a loose collective of independant states, after it their were no independant states, just the Federal government as far as the rest of the world was concerned

[QUOTE]

Reverend Phelps.

Also, whoever it was that discovered tobacco could grow in Virginia. Fucker made slavery possible in the U.S., thus leading to the racial instability we feel even today.


So did cotton growing and the fact that there were more poor blacks in Africa then rich whites in the rest of the world. Slavery carried over from the British colonials, notably from the West Indies. Only people forget that because during the Civil War Lincoln freed the slaves in the greatest propaganda event ever and made the Civil War about slavery, thus detracting from the issue that started the War, ie States Rights vs Federal overreaching. And no, I don't support slavery, I just don't think we should make the mistakes of the past the lessons of today by perpetuating a myth that was used to win popular support in the South for Federal troops.

And please also note that the Emancipation Proclimation only applied to those 'States and territories currently rebellion against the Union.' But excludes any areas of the South under military occupation by Union troops and the North itself

Sorry, but it gets me when people mistake the facts for hollywood history

So did cotton growing and the fact that there were more poor blacks in Africa then rich whites in the rest of the world. Slavery carried over from the British colonials, notably from the West Indies. Only people forget that because during the Civil War Lincoln freed the slaves in the greatest propaganda event ever and made the Civil War about slavery, thus detracting from the issue that started the War, ie States Rights vs Federal overreaching. And no, I don't support slavery, I just don't think we should make the mistakes of the past the lessons of today by perpetuating a myth that was used to win popular support in the South for Federal troops.

And please also note that the Emancipation Proclimation only applied to those 'States and territories currently rebellion against the Union.' But excludes any areas of the South under military occupation by Union troops and the North itself

Sorry, but it gets me when people mistake the facts for hollywood history


Amen.

While Forrest did create the KKK he also officially disbanded it before it began its rampage. In its early days while Forrest was in control, the KKK protected southerners of all color from Carpetbaggers, and from groups of northerners and southerners that tried to rob people.

It's actuallly harder than I thought to pick ten individuals, probably because I'm Australian but here three that spring to mind

1 Michael Moore
Uses American freedom to mock American Freedoms, his good points (Bowling For Columbine) are submerged in crap (Fahrenheit 911) or ignored because of crap (Fahrenheit 911).

2 Walter Simmons
Founder Of KKK guy (Not sure if name right)

3 Ronald Reagan
Funded the Taliban and Osama

Now the generalisations
4 KKK/Nazis/NAMBLA members
These guys are just bad

5 All administrations since WWII in general
Advancing america's interests is fair enough, but the methods used, such as abducting people for the "Black Sites", Bay of Pigs, propping up 'allies' ( Eg Taliban in Afghanistan), and the general treatment of other countries, especially in the Cold War are worse than Americans realise. A lot of Anti- Amercian sentiment comes from this.

6. Joe McCarthy and associates
Yeah Commies were bad in the Cold War, but his methods were not right

7. Evangelism/Evangelists
Freedom Of Religion means I get to choose so don't harass me, and stop rorting people. You think Jesus had bling?

8. Jack Thompson / Anti-Game Crusaders
Some of these guys have points Eg. Grand Theft Auto, but
If you don't want to play a game, don't.
If you don't your children to play a game, stop them.

9. Parents Censor Groups
Expansion of No. 8. Again, some arguments are valid, like prime-time television, but if you don't want children to do something, stop them.
If you did not know they were doing it, pay god damn attention to what they are doing.

10. Obnoxious 'Patriots'
America has a lot of positives and negatives, as to other countries. While it's good to be patriotic and proud of your nationality and heritage, if you get fuckwits runnning around in other countries saying
"America is the best country and all you other guys suck cos you aren't Americans, Whooo", (Which is a sadly prevalent attitude in America it seems)
you going to piss people off, which can be recruited into various organisations that are bad for America and Americans ala Iraqi insurgents, or getted their head kicked in. Again, a major reason people don't like America.

It's actuallly harder than I thought to pick ten individuals, probably because I'm Australian but here three that spring to mind

1 Michael Moore
Uses American freedom to mock American Freedoms, his good points (Bowling For Columbine) are submerged in crap (Fahrenheit 911) or ignored because of crap (Fahrenheit 911).

Micheal Moore has good points? What were you smoking? And may I have some?

So did cotton growing and the fact that there were more poor blacks in Africa then rich whites in the rest of the world. Slavery carried over from the British colonials, notably from the West Indies. Only people forget that because during the Civil War Lincoln freed the slaves in the greatest propaganda event ever and made the Civil War about slavery, thus detracting from the issue that started the War, ie States Rights vs Federal overreaching. And no, I don't support slavery, I just don't think we should make the mistakes of the past the lessons of today by perpetuating a myth that was used to win popular support in the South for Federal troops.

And please also note that the Emancipation Proclimation only applied to those 'States and territories currently rebellion against the Union.' But excludes any areas of the South under military occupation by Union troops and the North itself

Sorry, but it gets me when people mistake the facts for hollywood history

This is utter hogwash.

Protection of -- and desire to expand -- slavery was the primary issue raised by the seceding states. http://members.aol.com/jfepperson/reasons.html#Georgia

The Confederacy was founded on the "principles" of slavery. http://teachingamericanhistory.org/library/index.asp?document=76

Sorry, but it gets me when people mistake the facts for their own version of history.

Amen.

While Forrest did create the KKK he also officially disbanded it before it began its rampage. In its early days while Forrest was in control, the KKK protected southerners of all color from Carpetbaggers, and from groups of northerners and southerners that tried to rob people.

Actually NBF was a major racist. One of his own officers demanded a transfer after NBF got pissed and executed a free blankman that the officer knew and said was of good character!

This is utter hogwash.

Protection of -- and desire to expand -- slavery was the primary issue raised by the seceding states. http://members.aol.com/jfepperson/reasons.html#Georgia

The Confederacy was founded on the "principles" of slavery. http://teachingamericanhistory.org/library/index.asp?document=76

Sorry, but it gets me when people mistake the facts for their own version of history.

Though not a damning point but having read from a relations diary an (Cornelia Peake McDonald); she wrote that Angus McDonald III (founded the 7th Virginia Calvary and was part of Davis's staff) and friends were talking about how good the seperation was and the fact one guy was looking forward to getting the slave trade going again.

Slavery was on the mind of people....

The ten worst americans, in EXACT order:
links provided for info

#1 Dr. Hamilton Wright, father of the War on Drugs
http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/library/basicfax.htm#q1
http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/History/e1910/worstfiend.htm

2. Timothy McVeigh deserves a special place in hell next to Hitler, Stalin, and everyone who has ever killed in the name of religion
http://archives.cnn.com/2001/US/03/29/profile.mcveigh/

3. Michael Jackson Just because you're uber-rich doesn't mean you get to stick your pee-pee into little boys
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/010605jackson.html

4. Ted Kennedy Never saw a pork barrel project he didn't throw money at, and never passed up an opportunity to raise taxes
http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2004/05/25/ted_kennedys_anti_american_slander/

5. Jerry Fallwell The token representative of the religious right(very funny link)
http://www.sullivan-county.com/nf0/nov_2000/falwell_911.htm

6. Abraham Lincoln see Nyuujaku's post, page 2
http://www.civilwarhome.com/pulito.htm

7. Andrew Jackson populist, and genocidal maniac
http://historicaldocuments.com/IndianRemovalAct.htm

8. Michael Moore propoganda whore
9. Mel Gibson just because you're rich doesn't mean we have to buy into your Passion crap.
10. The Rosenbergs This one is easy

Honorable mention: Tom Cruise and his brainwashed scientology propoganda

6. Abraham Lincoln see Nyuujaku's post, page 2
http://www.civilwarhome.com/pulito.htm



Well his post is a tad off. Afterall the results of the war are what let to the racism off today? It wasn't going to change and slavery was not on it's way out. Why else were the South pissed at the idea of new states being entered as non-slave states?

Even your document doesn't end will labeling him an evil bastard.

The South rejoining the Union :D I always like that argument. People forget the Turtledove books are alternate reality books.

If the South had won, the US and the world would have been very different.

just a few off the top of my head...but generally anyone who supports statism or federalism. no particular order
jk galbraith (actually i believe canadian by birth but meh)
je hoover
woodrow wilson
abraham lincoln
anyone who believes supply side economics is useful
anyone who advances or believe that statism has virtues
anyone who thinks that micheal moore is a modern day saint and genious (dont get me started on moore, hes too pathetic to make the list himself)
most people who believe the civil war was justifiable (not necessarily all of you)
anyone who believes that autarky is desireable, and attainable, or is ok achieving it through exploitation (well i guess the only way to achieve it)
anyone who thinks the USSR wouldnt have collapsed without the USAs help

1.) Charles Lindberg, he may have been a hero for his fly across the atlantic, but the fact that he openly supported a Nazi Ideology makes him a non-hero in my book. :sniper:

2.) Andrew Jackson, the American Hitler, war hero, elected official, genocidal moron...and he's on the $20 bill, the most circulated American bill. :sniper:

3.) Timoth McVey, anyone who can claim to be a right-winger and justify the killing of innocents deserves to be in the top three

4) Billy Graham, anyone in a celrical position with this much power in our country is clearly a danger to the whole institution of democracy, heck our found fathers were mostly Masons ( who wanted to abolish both Mitre and Crown) or Deists ( who believed in god, but found that Christianity had far too much bad in with the good) and the others were mainly shakers and/or quakers, both of which according to #4 on my list are going to hell for not believing just like him.

5.) George Walker Bush, Anyone who uses their history major to learn how to "Burn the Reichstag," and who lied to go to war deserves to be on this list, however he's the bottom of the top 5 primarily because his elections were flukes.

6.) Sen. Joe McCarthy, needless to say he was a nutjob who saw Stalinistic Communism around every corner, not realizing that he would one day overstep his bounds

7.) Ollie North, Scumbag liar who helped to bring some of the current problems in the middle east, see #8

8.) George Herbert Walker Bush, as CIA director he gave us Osama ( who he had trained to fight in Afghanistan, where else did you think Osama got all that training) and Saddam WMDs (how do you think we knew he had them at some point) as Vice President, he was yet another scumbag liar in the Iran-Contra scandal, as President well we had a bad economy, and relatively ineffective laws, way to go George I

9.) Rush Limbaugh, simply put he's the reason we have the "fair and unbiased" :rolleyes: reporting on Fox News, yeah he's a liar and a hypocrite.

10.) Garth Brooks, Oddly I place him here since he was the one that pretty much ruined all country, we have him to thanks for that jingoistic idiot Toby Keith.

some may not agree with me but well...:upyours:

micheal jackson what molesting kids isnt enough of a reason to hate him?
john gayce this serial killer put his victims in his home then denied knowledge of it.. gee rotting bodies not enough of a clue?
Alexander joycethis neo nazi guy who blew up a black daycare center
killed 20 children..

Timothy mcveigh What a nut job he attacked his country What a traitor.. disagre with the goverment all u want but never kill innoncent people because you disagree with the way they handled things

Britney spears too many reasons to list

Those cops in newyork who raped that Hatien immigrant yeah like the description said these cops held down some illegal immigrant in newyork bathroom and Raped him anally with nightsticks
for his abuse he got citizenship and got money!

The news media during the rodeny king trial They show the cops beating Rodney but they failed to show the part Rodeny charged at the cops or how the man was HIGH AND INTOXICATED

the news media in general the news media disgusts me in general about anything they make a big deal about it anything to sell newspapers or tv

Well his post is a tad off. Afterall the results of the war are what let to the racism off today? It wasn't going to change and slavery was not on it's way out. Why else were the South pissed at the idea of new states being entered as non-slave states?
Solidarity. Throughout the 1850s the South fought against the erosion of states' rights, and knew that any new states added as free states would identify with the strong-government politics of the North and further weaken their position.

It's also interesting to note that slave states that didn't secede were allowed to keep their slaves until the passing of the 13th Amendment -- the Emancipation Proclamation only freed slaves in "rebellious" states, and goes on to name them -- and had the South not seceded they could have blocked its passage. Emancipation was a reaction to the Civil War, not the other way around.

The South rejoining the Union :D I always like that argument. People forget the Turtledove books are alternate reality books.
Never read them. It's just common sense -- seriously, this is the same South that, during the Civil War, thought it could solve its financial problems by printing more money. We're not talking about the great governments of the world here. They'd have come back.

If the South had won, the US and the world would have been very different.
Oh, absolutely. That's why I included Lincoln on my list.

Other than Joe MaCarthy, any such list would have to include Ronald Reagan and Henry Kissinger, for funding and supporting terrorism in Afghanistan (including bin Laden) and Nicaragua, and supporting ruthless dictatorships (Hussein in Iraq, Pinochet in Chile...).

Kissinger completely slipped my mind, and he would almost certainly belong on my list, for both Vietnam and Latin America.

Micheal Moore has good points? What were you smoking? And may I have some?

Correction, raises interesting points in Bowling for Columbine, but otherwise full of crap.
For example, you can't see the Hollywood sign from Compton where the race riots started

Check out the You Are A F'in Moron, an awesome cartoon series, mocking Michael Moore, Scienctology, and other morons
http://www.zipperfish.net/toons.php

[
Woodrow Wilson and FDR, for getting us needlessly involved in WWI and WW2 for the tie at #3-4. Bad enough that they actively wanted us in these wars, but they also let innocents die by putting out poison bait -- the Lusitania for Wilson, a poorly-defended Pearl Harbor for FDR -- to deliberately get us involved. FDR's sound economic policy is all that saves him in the history books.

I take issue with that. Speaking as a citizen of the nation that was about to be wiped off the face of the Earth by Hitler's charming Anti-Semitists, I personally think that FDR was a noble man who did what was right. It would have been shameful for America to stand and watch as the last standing European Democracy which opposed the Fascists was absorbed. Surely what happened in the Holocaust, combined with the utter horror of Nazi rule in general (the restriction of freedoms, the perversion of German society, etc)
is enough to justify the poison bait you claim was offered, enough though it was not.
What saves FDR is not the New Deal, which didn't actually solve the problem ultimately, but the fact that he stood up to be counted against one of the biggest threats our common humanity has ever faced. And if we're going to be economical about it, you may find that it was in fact the Second World War which was the key factor in resurrecting the US Economy following the long and miserable period of depression following the Wall Street Crash. Until war production got underway and the economy was forced to adapt, even Roosevelt's forward-thinking plans did not solve the problem..

500 % agree.

Well, I will go for a categori sort of list, unsorted.

1. Americans that goes like "the iraq war was completly unneccesary, U.S. lost many soldiers, no WMD" and so on. The have never been a threat to US - think on the iraq people instead, they should be happier now.

2. Americans that is like "we got new, more advanced planes, now we can go to war without losing a single american life". you should count in lifes, not american lifes.

3. Americans that dont now anything about the world around them. not only the ones that cant point out the continents on a map, but also the ones that goes like "Europe is poor" and so..

4. Americans that make "documentaries" that show something from one side, and only one side. (michel moore, ie.)

5. Americans with an extreme use of consuming products, gas and so on. you know, cars much bigger than neccesary, and i guess everybody knows about the obesity epedimi.

6. Americans with too much national pride. what is national pride anyway? this goes for everybode, not only citzens in america.


cant come up with more...

Im from denmark by the way, thats why you cant understand anything of what i have written :)


jk

The ten worst americans, in EXACT order:
links provided for info

2. Timothy McVeigh deserves a special place in hell next to Hitler, Stalin, and everyone who has ever killed in the name of religion
http://archives.cnn.com/2001/US/03/29/profile.mcveigh/

Why is killing in the name of religion any worse than other killing?

And to several other posters, why shouldn't a country value the lives of its citizens over the lives of others? There are extremes on both ends, but I want my country worrying about my life more than any other lives, and certainly far more than the lives of my enemies.

Why is killing in the name of religion any worse than other killing?

And to several other posters, why shouldn't a country value the lives of its citizens over the lives of others? There are extremes on both ends, but I want my country worrying about my life more than any other lives, and certainly far more than the lives of my enemies.
I would say that the difference is one of justification on the part of the killers. Killing in the name of religion allows the killer to absolve him or herself of any guilt, because the guilt is passed off to God. That's what makes it worse in my book, anyway.

And to several other posters, why shouldn't a country value the lives of its citizens over the lives of others? There are extremes on both ends, but I want my country worrying about my life more than any other lives, and certainly far more than the lives of my enemies.

why should a country value the lives of its citizens over the lives of others? a life is a life, and i think the whole "he is a US citzen, i deserves to live more than a iraq citzen" is absurd.

A bit of information... It was Bush Sr. that left Saddam's dissidents and opposition to rot after the first Gulf War.

1. Ted Kennedy - Traitor
2. Nancy Pelosi - Traitor
3. Barney Frank - Traitor
4. Dan Rather - Traitor
5. John Kerry - Liar, Head Traitor
6. Group Award - The Members of moveon.org - scummy traitors
7. Al Sharpton - Lunatic
8. Cindy Sheehan - used her childs death to get famous
9. John Edwards - smarmy ambulance chaser, huckster
10. Group Award - Members of the ACLU, for ruining America.

:rolleyes:

snip

LOL.

Funny in a pathetic kind of way.

snip
Lame.

In all ways.

I'm curious though...what's your justification for calling John Kerry a "head traitor"?

Lame.

In all ways.

Fine. Feel free to esplain how Nancy Pelosi, Barney Frank, Dan Rather, Ted Kennedy, and John Kerry have each separately committed an act of treason.

Can you even define treason correctly?

Also explain how America was a better place in 1920 than it is now.

Fine. Feel free to esplain how Nancy Pelosi, Barney Frank, Dan Rather, Ted Kennedy, and John Kerry have each separately committed an act of treason.
They're evil and they want to eat your babies.

They're evil and they want to eat your babies.

You make that sound like a bad thing. Every try a baby sandwich?

televangelists (SP?)-for making money off god.

cindy shehan-For callin insurgents "freedom fighters"

michael moore-for making money off of colombine and 9/11.

rev.jess jackson-for trying to get the fuk-off "tookie" off death row

gaede twins and their mother-for spreading white supremacy the twins were basiclly brainwased by thier mother.

Ramsey clark-for representing(in court) saddam,the guy in charge of the genocide in rawanda,slovadon malocavich(SP),the islamic extreamists who commited the1993 WTC bombing.

American Media-for consintrating more on the bad of the iraq war then on
the good things the soldiers are doing.

Far left/right media-for leting there belifs come in the way of good journalism.

bush-for his lack of attention at the boarder.

the guy incharge of fema during katrina

ACLU- STFU!!!111
**********************************************************
people(s) who did good for america
-------------------------------

the soldiers-for fighting bravely and helping the people of iraq and evertwhere.

the coast guard-for the handling of katrina and the shit goin down in florida.