NationStates Jolt Archive

A driver who honked at a bunch of morons who were standing in the street preventing him from driving was draged from his car and beaten severely by the gang of scum. Let that be a lesson to us all. When people won't get out of the way of your car, just run the fuckers over.

http://www.azcentral.com/offbeat/articles/1227mob-beating27-ON.html

A driver who honked at a bunch of morons who were standing in the street preventing him from driving was draged from his car and beaten severely by the gang of scum. Let that be a lesson to us all. When people won't get out of the way of your car, just run the fuckers over.

http://www.azcentral.com/offbeat/articles/1227mob-beating27-ON.html
Does it help to back up over them a few times to make sure they're really really dead? Y'know, so that they don't come after you.....

If anything, though, I'd consider it more of a lesson to NOT live in Milwaukee

I was going to post this, but had to change computers before I could do so.

But here's my stock answer:

This is exactly why I carry a gun.

Unfortunately, the simplest, and best, response to an attack like this (stepping on the gas) would have put the guy in the dock forever...

HEADLINE: 50y/o white guy plows into group of minority youths! Race Riots follow!

Peh.

This kind of shit causes brief spurts of fascist romanticism in me. It's depressing how a large portion of society is stuck in limbo between ape and man.

I was going to post this, but had to change computers before I could do so.

But here's my stock answer:

This is exactly why I carry a gun.

Unfortunately, the simplest, and best, response to an attack like this (stepping on the gas) would have put the guy in the dock forever...

HEADLINE: 58y/o whiteguy plows into group of minority youths! Race Riots follow!

Peh.

Nobody screws with a truck bearing a gun rack...

Especially when there's suddenly no longer a gun in said rack...

I was going to post this, but had to change computers before I could do so.

But here's my stock answer:

This is exactly why I carry a gun.


So that when you shoot the first one the other 14 of them don't just beat you but kill you too? Or is it so that they have some payoff for their trouble?

So that when you shoot the first one the other 14 of them don't just beat you but kill you too? Or is it so that they have some payoff for their trouble?
I would imagine that shooting into the crowd would cause them to scatter. If that fails, it at least thins them out enough so you can plow through the rest of them with your car without damaging it too much.

So that when you shoot the first one the other 14 of them don't just beat you but kill you too? Or is it so that they have some payoff for their trouble?
I think the idea is that they will flee at the sight of a gun.

So that when you shoot the first one the other 14 of them don't just beat you but kill you too? Or is it so that they have some payoff for their trouble?

Or maybe so that when you unload 15 rounds of .45 ACP at them, most of them are lying broken and bleeding on the ground, and the three that are left run like hell?

So that when you shoot the first one the other 14 of them don't just beat you but kill you too? Or is it so that they have some payoff for their trouble?But my gun is not a single shot... but Oh yeah, I forgot... that's why the criminal advocacy/gun control groups fought to limit magazine size... :rolleyes:

Or maybe so that when you unload 15 rounds of .45 ACP at them, most of them are lying broken and bleeding on the ground, and the three that are left run like hell?


...because things happen exactly like they do in the movies.:rolleyes:

...because things happen exactly like they do in the movies.:rolleyes:

I can hit a running target at about 30 yards with my .45, that close, no chance I'd miss more than three times.

EDIT: Gimme my shotgun and that goes right out the window, 12 gauge Slugs would tear them all to shit.

I was going to post this, but had to change computers before I could do so.

But here's my stock answer:

This is exactly why I carry a gun.

Unfortunately, the simplest, and best, response to an attack like this (stepping on the gas) would have put the guy in the dock forever...

HEADLINE: 50y/o white guy plows into group of minority youths! Race Riots follow!

Peh.

as opposed to 50 y/o gunslinger fires into group of minority youths?

as opposed to 50 y/o gunslinger fires into group of minority youths?

50 year old man fires into group of minority youths attempting to drag him from his vehichle.

as opposed to 50 y/o gunslinger fires into group of minority youths?
You've got to do what you've got to do. Better to shoot some people who are acting like assholes than let them beat you to death.

Is it just me, or is the kind of person who would let himself be dragged from his car in stead of going from 0-60 in 16 seconds over whatever idiot started to open the door the same kind of person who would let that same idiot take away his gun?

Is it just me, or is the kind of person who would let himself be dragged from his car in stead of going from 0-60 in 16 seconds over whatever idiot started to open the door the same kind of person who would let that same idiot take away his gun?

That's actually a pretty good point...

Is it just me, or is the kind of person who would let himself be dragged from his car in stead of going from 0-60 in 16 seconds over whatever idiot started to open the door the same kind of person who would let that same idiot take away his gun?
If it would take him 16 seconds to get from 0 to 60, maybe that's why he was ABLE to be dragged from the car....:p

There's something to be said for the soft, gushy interiors of the humanitarians who think "Oh yeah, I can reason with these guys". Mostly, in this case, that the soft gushy interiors become rather exterior when they DO try reason....

You've got to do what you've got to do. Better to shoot some people who are acting like assholes than let them beat you to death.


I agree, one has to defend themselves, and if shooting someone is the only way one knows how to do so then I guess I can't argue with that... I was just wondering how it would be perceived differently. I still think someone would end up saying it is racist.

I wonder about this story though. Did the guy only honk his horn? The officer said so, but I'm wondering if he perhaps talked some shit, or gave them the finger or something. Of course the beating he got is in no way a proper response to such actions if that is what happened. And if you are old and confronting a gang of hooligans, wouldnt one have the forsight to roll up ones windows and lock ones doors? Even if I had a gun I would first do what I can not to esclate the problem by doing just that.

Simonist']If it would take him 16 seconds to get from 0 to 60, maybe that's why he was ABLE to be dragged from the car....:p


Eh. I put together Mini's post about a truck with the 'vehicle' in the artical. Probably would be considerably faster in your average 50-year-old-middle-class-white-male sedan.

Eh. I put together Mini's post about a truck with the 'vehicle' in the artical. Probably would be considerably faster in your average 50-year-old-middle-class-white-male sedan.

Even my Ranger accelerates faster than that... Try 0-60 in about 9.

...because things happen exactly like they do in the movies.:rolleyes:
Nope, they sure don't. The guy who came at me with a tire-iron when I was sitting in my car took one look at my .45 ad decided he had lesser armed people to bash. No shots fired - but no damage to me or my car either.

Maybe I was talking about miles per half-hour...

My point stands, misconception of the accelerative capabilities of Mini's truck notwithstanding. If the guy didn't floor it when he was in danger, chances are very good that he would also not point a gun at a living person and pull the trigger.

I would use the sword my friend got me and/or the SOG blade I have or my dagger. You know..let them pull me out and then just start stabbing or swinging and cutting. Since I do not own a gun. If I did, I would still let them come up to the window so I could blow one away right in the head, let them know I am serious and all.

Nope, they sure don't. The guy who came at me with a tire-iron when I was sitting in my car took one look at my .45 ad decided he had lesser armed people to bash. No shots fired - but no damage to me or my car either.

Funny story...

Before I got my pistol I was in DC, and this guy comes up to my truck in the middle of the summer, and he pulls a knife, and I've got my windows down, so my response is simple, I pull my tire iron from under my seat. He takes one look compares his butterfly knife with my big hunk of heavy metal, and turns around. Didn't even have to give him a look, he saw that he was out eaponed, and bolted. I laughed for the next 5 minutes or so...

Maybe I was talking about miles per half-hour...

My point stands, misconception of the accelerative capabilities of Mini's truck notwithstanding. If the guy didn't floor it when he was in danger, chances are very good that he would also not point a gun at a living person and pull the trigger.
Unfortunately, if and untill the gangsters reached into his vehicle (by breaking a window? this was Milwaulkee in December) he could NOT get away with hitting a "pedestrian". Period.

OTOH, If they start beating on/surrounding my car and I pull out a gun, there is a better chance of them backing up enough for me to drive away.

I would imagine that shooting into the crowd would cause them to scatter. If that fails, it at least thins them out enough so you can plow through the rest of them with your car without damaging it too much.


The scatter thing really depends on whether they've already hade their morning hookah.....

Anyway. That's why you buy lots of ammo. :sniper:

Funny story...

Before I got my pistol I was in DC, and this guy comes up to my truck in the middle of the summer, and he pulls a knife, and I've got my windows down, so my response is simple, I pull my tire iron from under my seat. He takes one look compares his butterfly knife with my big hunk of heavy metal, and turns around. Didn't even have to give him a look, he saw that he was out eaponed, and bolted. I laughed for the next 5 minutes or so...

Pulled your tire iron from under your seat? Dang I don't think my car seats have enough room under them for that.

You know, reading about all these instances of violence or attempted violence doesn't make me feel as bad about living out in the sticks.

Pulled your tire iron from under your seat? Dang I don't think my car seats have enough room under them for that.

Trucks are great, more places to stash just about anything... I have a .30-06 and 3-4 boxes of ammo behind the seat, and a .45 in the gap where the two halves of the bench meet. I also have a knife in my Glove Box, and my Tire Iron remains under the seat...

I would use the sword my friend got me and/or the SOG blade I have or my dagger. You know..let them pull me out and then just start stabbing or swinging and cutting. Since I do not own a gun. If I did, I would still let them come up to the window so I could blow one away right in the head, let them know I am serious and all.

Take much more than a sword to get out of that mess. Let me see.....Car...Sword.....Car...Sword? Let's pick the little one.

WTF?

Not a video game.

:headbang:

Simonist']If it would take him 16 seconds to get from 0 to 60, maybe that's why he was ABLE to be dragged from the car....:p

There's something to be said for the soft, gushy interiors of the humanitarians who think "Oh yeah, I can reason with these guys". Mostly, in this case, that the soft gushy interiors become rather exterior when they DO try reason....


Perfect.

When I'm in my car, I'm in charge. Unless you have some special remote control that turns my car off, unlocks the doors, opens the windows and disarms me, I am not going to be stopped and taken out of my car.

I also never use my horn for anything. I also avoid trouble when I can. I usually dont get into these situations.

I am prepared for them when they cant be avoided.

Take much more than a sword to get out of that mess. Let me see.....Car...Sword.....Car...Sword? Let's pick the little one.

WTF?

Not a video game.

:headbang:
I disagree, sharp enough sword to severe limbs? Then it'll do, that'll freak some of them out, and then I'll just get back in the car and go. It is not a video game, but if all I have is that (not even tire iron, that is way in back of car), and they come over to my car, I will either gun it, or just jump out and start stabbing/severing.

Trucks are great, more places to stash just about anything... I have a .30-06 and 3-4 boxes of ammo behind the seat, and a .45 in the gap where the two halves of the bench meet. I also have a knife in my Glove Box, and my Tire Iron remains under the seat...
A shorty crosscut hand saw ($15 at sears) fits great in a map pocket. The slashing-draw cut it makes in meat is a wonder to behold... plus, it can be "carried" legally anywhere.

I disagree, sharp enough sword to severe limbs? Then it'll do, that'll freak some of them out, and then I'll just get back in the car and go. It is not a video game, but if all I have is that (not even tire iron, that is way in back of car), and they come over to my car, I will either gun it, or just jump out and start stabbing/severing.

That's stupid. No offense, but against 15 guys, I'd stay in the truck, and use the fact that, in there, I'm about 3 tons heavier than they are, combined. Nobody stands in the way of 4 tons of rolling steel for long... And if they get to me before I can accelerate, that's what the .45 is for.

A shorty crosscut hand saw ($15 at sears) fits great in a map pocket. The slashing-draw cut it makes in meat is a wonder to behold... plus, it can be "carried" legally anywhere.

That's what the Knife and Tire Iron are for... I take the guns outta the truck whenever I head into the City, or when I go up to Baltimore.

A shorty crosscut hand saw ($15 at sears) fits great in a map pocket. The slashing-draw cut it makes in meat is a wonder to behold... plus, it can be "carried" legally anywhere.
Damn...you sorta scared me. I have never actually had to cut someone.

Mini Miehm and everyone else, (1)I am going off of reality (I own no guns), and (2) I am going off of the situation in the news where the guy was forced out of his car. If I had it my way I would put the petal to el metal...but if I was forced out then you know what I would do. It is to bad I do not have a truck or a gun, but you use what you have, and I know I would be able to take a couple with me.

A shorty crosscut hand saw ($15 at sears) fits great in a map pocket. The slashing-draw cut it makes in meat is a wonder to behold... plus, it can be "carried" legally anywhere.


Dual-purpose items are always best, in case you are detained or implicated in some way. A two lb ball-peen hammer is great too.

I have a great pen I carry when I fly. I cant get in trouble for having it and its a fantastic defensive weapon.

That's stupid. No offense, but against 15 guys, I'd stay in the truck, and use the fact that, in there, I'm about 3 tons heavier than they are, combined. Nobody stands in the way of 4 tons of rolling steel for long... And if they get to me before I can accelerate, that's what the .45 is for.
The first thing they taught me at the OKC PD was "Your sidearm produces maybe 400ftlbs of energy, 15 times... your cruiser produces that standing still. Which do you think is the most effective weapon when used against a crowd?"

Dual-purpose items are always best, in case you are detained or implicated in some way. A two lb ball-peen hammer is great too.

I have a great pen I carry when I fly. I cant get in trouble for having it and its a fantastic defensive weapon.
Kubotan tactics were developed for the Cross Pen. I also carry a mini-mag flashlight and a pair of rosewood chopsticks for the same reason. Oh yeah, my in-flight ear plugs are linked by a 24" length of 80# test teflon coated fishing leader... (cough, garotte, cough...)

Damn...you sorta scared me. I have never actually had to cut someone.

Mini Miehm and everyone else, (1)I am going off of reality (I own no guns), and (2) I am going off of the situation in the news where the guy was forced out of his car. If I had it my way I would put the petal to el metal...but if I was forced out then you know what I would do. It is to bad I do not have a truck or a gun, but you use what you have, and I know I would be able to take a couple with me.


Its so much better off to avoid the situation altogether. I am always aware of my surroundings. Defensive driving and E &E teaches a lot.
I even leave room to drive out of situations when I'm on a drive-up window. As long as I'm in a car, I'm in control.

Damn...you sorta scared me. I have never actually had to cut someone.

Mini Miehm and everyone else, (1)I am going off of reality (I own no guns), and (2) I am going off of the situation in the news where the guy was forced out of his car. If I had it my way I would put the petal to el metal...but if I was forced out then you know what I would do. It is to bad I do not have a truck or a gun, but you use what you have, and I know I would be able to take a couple with me.

Ok, I can see that, but still, a sword? Tire Iron is even more frightening, one time we couldn't get a deer to fit in the bed, so I shattered its leg bones and folded it up. Tire Iron is perfectly suited to shattering bone and crushing skulls. First rule of scaring people: Switchblades are the most menacing weapon out there, even more so than guns. If you can't get a switchblade, get a gun, if you can't get a gun, get the heaviest nastiest blunt object you can find. People are more willing to believe that you'll kill them if you pull something like a knife or beating object. Guns are frightening, but they also carry heavier penalties for misuse, so people don't think that someone would actually use it unless necessary.

Damn...you sorta scared me. I have never actually had to cut someone.

Mini Miehm and everyone else, (1)I am going off of reality (I own no guns), and (2) I am going off of the situation in the news where the guy was forced out of his car. If I had it my way I would put the petal to el metal...but if I was forced out then you know what I would do. It is to bad I do not have a truck or a gun, but you use what you have, and I know I would be able to take a couple with me.Another good one is a "T" handled meat saw. Triangular 2-edged blade. The ultimate push-dagger.

Here's one without a point:

http://cabelas.com/cabelas/en/content/Item/51/70/13/i517013sq01.jpg

Kubotan tactics were developed for the Cross Pen. I also carry a mini-mag flashlight and a pair of rosewood chopsticks for the same reason. Oh yeah, my in-flight ear plugs are linked by a 24" length of 80# test teflon coated fishing leader... (cough, garotte, cough...)

Heh, I didn't even consider the various weighty objets in my tool kit... My Mag-Lite, my various wrenches, that one big ass screwdriver that never seems to be needed because there's never any screws that big...

Kubotan tactics were developed for the Cross Pen. I also carry a mini-mag flashlight and a pair of rosewood chopsticks for the same reason. Oh yeah, my in-flight ear plugs are linked by a 24" length of 80# test teflon coated fishing leader... (cough, garotte, cough...)


I'm liking you more and more. Yeah- my pen is fairly ornate, a gift from a bank I worked for. Its got some heft. Its not designed to be a weapon, but its larger than the average keychain type kubotan, which would be confiscated. And with the cap removed, it would be great for pressure points AND stabbing. years ago, I had teh composite "CIA Letter Opener", but these days, that will just get you in trouble.

I carry the mini-mag too. And a 6 cell maglight in the car. So I can see what I'm doing.

Switchblades are the most menacing weapon out there, even more so than guns.
:confused:

I will take 9 out of 10 people "meanacing" me with any knife without even drawing my gun. The 10th person will be holding the knife in a proper knife-fighting stance and I will be drawing my gun while I run away.

If you are at all experienced with experienced knife fighters, you will understand.

So that when you shoot the first one the other 14 of them don't just beat you but kill you too? Or is it so that they have some payoff for their trouble?
Depends upon how accurate you are and how fast you are at changing magazines. :D

The first thing they taught me at the OKC PD was "Your sidearm produces maybe 400ftlbs of energy, 15 times... your cruiser produces that standing still. Which do you think is the most effective weapon when used against a crowd?"

You make a very good point there... I'm a redneck, so I geneally think in terms of very large conventional weapons, Pistols, Knives, Tire Irons(Yes, to a redneck, that qualifies as a conventional weapon), various other clubbing objects, including hammers, Axes, Hatchets, mallets... My truck is my pride, and damage to it merits swift retribution, trying to hit people with it is not a generally acceptable tactic in my book.

:confused:

I will take 9 out of 10 people "meanacing" me with any knife without even drawing my gun. The 10th person will be holding the knife in a proper knife-fighting stance and I will be drawing my gun while I run away.

If you are at all experienced with experienced knife fighters, you will understand.


Yeah- I think people watch movies and expect you'll get stabbed in the gut. In reality, your arms, neck and chest will be slashed to ribbons first. And it will be fast.

:confused:

I will take 9 out of 10 people "meanacing" me with any knife without even drawing my gun. The 10th person will be holding the knife in a proper knife-fighting stance and I will be drawing my gun while I run away.

If you are at all experienced with experienced knife fighters, you will understand.

I speak the truth. If you pull a switchblade on a civilian they are more willing to believe that you will kill them most of the time.

Depends upon how accurate you are and how fast you are at changing magazines. :D

Hey Eutrusca- I rented "The Great Raid" on DVD last night- Its was great! Have you seen it yet?

Hey Eutrusca- I rented "The Great Raid" on DVD last night- Its was great! Have you seen it yet?
Not yet, but I'm going to. I've seen the trailers and it looks to be very well done. :)

I heard something like this was going down in N.O., but then this big wave of water struck and it all got washed out.

It's getting pretty sad to see how the midwest gets stuck like this over and over. St. Louis, Detroit, Milwaukee. Comon when does it end?

Really, more people oughta learn how to just use their bare hands to defend themselves. If everyone could get along knowing that they're safe w/o weapons, then they wouldn't be so scared of them and would find them less effective than just going at it immediately. Also, I'd bet on a much higher samaritan %age. Why didn't anyone get out and help this guy? What, did other drivers just see what was an obstacle and drove around it. Perfect example of the deterioration of volunteerism in a country where obsessive compulsion has resulted in an objective to survive with riches rather than prosper and grow them.

I speak the truth. If you pull a switchblade on a civilian they are more willing to believe that you will kill them most of the time.
I suppose - but then, most sheeple will think you intend to kill them simply because you own a switchblade or firearm. :headbang:

I heard something like this was going down in N.O., but then this big wave of water struck and it all got washed out.

It's getting pretty sad to see how the midwest gets stuck like this over and over. St. Louis, Detroit, Milwaukee. Comon when does it end?

Really, more people oughta learn how to just use their bare hands to defend themselves. If everyone could get along knowing that they're safe w/o weapons, then they wouldn't be so scared of them and would find them less effective than just going at it immediately. Also, I'd bet on a much higher samaritan %age. Why didn't anyone get out and help this guy? What, did other drivers just see what was an obstacle and drove around it. Perfect example of the deterioration of volunteerism in a country where obsessive compulsion has resulted in an objective to survive with riches rather than prosper and grow them.For the same reason you can have a Chicago/Gary gang shooting in a crowd of people and no one saw anything. The area of Milwaukee he was in was not a neighborhood that would lend a hand to anyone who was not a resident.

I suppose - but then, most sheeple will think you intend to kill them simply because you own a switchblade or firearm. :headbang:

True, they are Sheeple after all...

I suppose - but then, most sheeple will think you intend to kill them simply because you own a switchblade or firearm. :headbang:
Heh! I recall one time when I went out to a local restaurant with my significant other of the moment. It was cold out, so I had on my flight jacket and my shoulder holster with a Kimber .45 beneath it. The place was packed and there was a mob of young men sitting a couple of booths away making quite a racket. While we were eating, she got a bit chilly, so I took off my jacket and placed it around her shoulders, forgetting that I was carrying. There was this sudden, rather deafening silence in the area as people realized what I was wearing. The group of young rowdies stared at me like I was from another planet.

I turned to face them and asked, "Can I help you boys somehow?"

There was a uniform shaking of heads and a few muttered "No, sirs." God, I love North Carolina! :D

Heh! I recall one time when I went out to a local restaurant with my significant other of the moment. It was cold out, so I had on my flight jacket and my shoulder holster with a Kimber .45 beneath it. The place was packed and there was a mob of young men sitting a couple of booths away making quite a racket. While we were eating, she got a bit chilly, so I took off my jacket and placed it around her shoulders, forgetting that I was carrying. There was this sudden, rather deafening silence in the area as people realized what I was wearing. The group of young rowdies stared at me like I was from another planet.

I turned to face them and asked, "Can I help you boys somehow?"

There was a uniform shaking of heads and a few muttered "No, sirs." God, I love North Carolina! :D

I sah, am from the Great State Of Vujinuh. Which is almost as good as those states farther south...

I sah, am from the Great State Of Vujinuh. Which is almost as good as those states farther south...
Mah famly wuz frahm Vuh-ginya many yeahs ago. You, suha may verah well be ah rel-tive. :D

Not yet, but I'm going to. I've seen the trailers and it looks to be very well done. :)

Its a good one- a must see.

Mah famly wuz frahm Vuh-ginya many yeahs ago. You, suha may verah well be ah rel-tive. :D
Hell, given your rep, he might even be your bastard... ;)

I was going to post this, but had to change computers before I could do so.

But here's my stock answer:

This is exactly why I carry a gun.

Unfortunately, the simplest, and best, response to an attack like this (stepping on the gas) would have put the guy in the dock forever...

HEADLINE: 50y/o white guy plows into group of minority youths! Race Riots follow!

Peh.
The article didn't indicate the race of the mob or the man.

I was going to post this, but had to change computers before I could do so.

But here's my stock answer:

This is exactly why I carry a gun.

Unfortunately, the simplest, and best, response to an attack like this (stepping on the gas) would have put the guy in the dock forever...

HEADLINE: 50y/o white guy plows into group of minority youths! Race Riots follow!

Peh.


I read the link to this news and it didn't mention anything about minorities. Second, why didn't the man hit the gas pedal? (form of self-defense I believe). Third, carrying a gun wont save you, if the rest of the population is insecure like you and try carrying a gun.:D To the rest of folks who think just showing a gun, or shooting well definitly get an angry mob running away, think again.:sniper:
:mp5: :gundge:

Mah famly wuz frahm Vuh-ginya many yeahs ago. You, suha may verah well be ah rel-tive. :D

I do not believe that to be likely suh, Vuhjinny is a big place ou unnerstand? And we's from Alta Vista, near Staunton(Pronounced Stanton).

The article didn't indicate the race of the mob or the man.
No, but the neighborhood and name do - within a margin of error...

Change the city a bit:

Samuel McClain gets beaten by a gang in Compton/South Side Chicago/Gary, etc.

See? Can't guarantee Sam's ethnicity, but margin of error...

Point still stands tho. You drive through a gang of thugs meanacing you you will get slaughtered in the press and courts for hitting pedestrians. They could all have been carrying clubs and it wouldn't matter.

I was going to post this, but had to change computers before I could do so.

But here's my stock answer:

This is exactly why I carry a gun.

Ay, Syniks...and if they had guns, they wouldn't have had to expend any energy in beating him...guns are neither the cause of, or the solution to violence.

A driver who honked at a bunch of morons who were standing in the street preventing him from driving was draged from his car and beaten severely by the gang of scum. Let that be a lesson to us all. When people won't get out of the way of your car, just run the fuckers over.

Collectivism in action, folks! Why one would attempt to make policy out of this kind of behavior is completely beyond me.

Yes, individuals commit stupid crimes too, but it's quite a bit more horrendous and causes more damage for everyone when 200 people riot and/or beat people than it is when one guy does it. The autonymity of being in a crowd--the "oh, [i]I won't get caught" type mentality is a much more dangerous impetus for crime and wrongdoing than most individual iterations of such a desire for force--save perhaps in cases of extreme psychosis. One nutcase would have to get his hands on a M1A1 tank or a suitcase nuke to do the same kind of damage than an unruly mob is capable of. Call me crazy, but the latter seems [and historically always has been] much more likely to happen.

Ay, Syniks...and if they had guns, they wouldn't have had to expend any energy in beating him...guns are neither the cause of, or the solution to violence.

Guns are a perfectly acceptable solution to a threat to your person. Especially when that threat has you otnumbered 15-1. I know that if I pull a gun, I'm gonna surprise them long enough for me to do some serious damage.

I read the link to this news and it didn't mention anything about minorities. Second, why didn't the man hit the gas pedal? (form of self-defense I believe). No. Not unless and untill they were just aout to pul him from the car. Third, carrying a gun wont save you, if the rest of the population is insecure like you and try carrying a gun.:D You, of all people, should understand the value of firearms to defend oneself from tribal behavior. Machette vs Gun... To the rest of folks who think just showing a gun, or shooting well definitly get an angry mob running away, think again.:sniper: :mp5: :gundge:Well, it's worked for me on three different occasions. So I'll tend to believe experience over ideology.

This kind of shit causes brief spurts of fascist romanticism in me. It's depressing how a large portion of society is stuck in limbo between ape and man.
If it was truly large, this kind of event wouldn't even raise eyebrows, being much more commonplace. It is exactly because we still have the capacity to be horrified that it would seem that the portion of society who commit such crimes, is still (thankfully) small.

Ay, Syniks...and if they had guns, they wouldn't have had to expend any energy in beating him...guns are neither the cause of, or the solution to violence.
Nope, but they can certainly help in providing a non-violent solution and/or saving one's skin.

Not a solution to violence maybe, but a definate aid in attempting to avoid grevious bodily harm.

No, but the neighborhood and name do - within a margin of error...

Change the city a bit:

Samuel McClain gets beaten by a gang in Compton/South Side Chicago/Gary, etc.

See? Can't guarantee Sam's ethnicity, but margin of error...

Point still stands tho. You drive through a gang of thugs meanacing you you will get slaughtered in the press and courts for hitting pedestrians. They could all have been carrying clubs and it wouldn't matter.
It's going to sound like total bullshit I'm making up to make a point, but it's true-I know a black dude with the last name McLain.

And Milwaukee appears to be over 3/4ths cracker (http://www.cityrating.com/citystats.asp?city=Milwaukee&state=WI).

Annnnyway...I don't want to get in the middle of all this dick wagging about how you all would have dealt with 15 people.

Point still stands tho. You drive through a gang of thugs meanacing you you will get slaughtered in the press and courts for hitting pedestrians. They could all have been carrying clubs and it wouldn't matter.
A couple things to consider:

Often when random violence occurs, it happens fast. As in too fast to really form a response. Especially if the guy was (reasonably) expecting them to clear out of the way, instead of swarming the vehicle and beating him. Likely before he had gotten over the shock of them turning on him like that, driving through them was no longer an option. Also, the regular person isn't mentally prepared to kill someone else...even if he had considered driving through them before they turned on him, he likely discarded the action as one likely to cause serious harm if not death...remember...at that point, it's doubtful he would've expected the reaction they had to his horn blast.

This is all speculation of course. Just like the entire conversation. We have no idea how fast things really happened, what went through this guy's head, or whether a gun would've made any bloody difference at all.

A couple things to consider:

Often when random violence occurs, it happens fast. As in too fast to really form a response. Especially if the guy was (reasonably) expecting them to clear out of the way, instead of swarming the vehicle and beating him. Likely before he had gotten over the shock of them turning on him like that, driving through them was no longer an option. Also, the regular person isn't mentally prepared to kill someone else...even if he had considered driving through them before they turned on him, he likely discarded the action as one likely to cause serious harm if not death...remember...at that point, it's doubtful he would've expected the reaction they had to his horn blast.

This is all speculation of course. Just like the entire conversation. We have no idea how fast things really happened, what went through this guy's head, or whether a gun would've made any bloody difference at all.

I'm sure the difference would have been very bloody...

Guns are a perfectly acceptable solution to a threat to your person. In your society, perhaps. Especially when that threat has you otnumbered 15-1. I know that if I pull a gun, I'm gonna surprise them long enough for me to do some serious damage.
Supposition. That's assuming that particular person would react quickly enough to draw a weapon once he realised things were turning violent. He wasn't quick enough to drive through them...why would you assume he'd be quick enough to draw his gun?

Hell, given your rep, he might even be your bastard... ;)
ROFLMFAO!!! Hahahahha! Nahh. I was always very careful about that. :p

Sirrah! Them is fathin' wuds! Fwatunately, they ah not for me. Howevah, mah Vah-ginya cousin may indeed take exception! :D

I do not believe that to be likely suh, Vuhjinny is a big place ou unnerstand? And we's from Alta Vista, near Staunton(Pronounced Stanton).
Sirrah. You would be honahed should you prove to be mah kin. Are there, pahchance any with the surname Stephens in youah family tree?

A gun probably wouldn't have made much difference in this case, being as most states require you to keep them unloaded [and disassembled if possible] and in an area of the car which cannot be reached without leaving the car--presumably the trunk. If the guy had a piece and was carrying it in the glovebox or on the passenger seat, he may end up saving himself from a literal headache only to earn a legal one.

I'm not sure what bearing a concealed carry permit would have on this statute, but I imagine none since the apparent intent of making people keep their guns in the trunk is to curb road rage incidents.

The horrible thing about mob violence is that it's particularly difficult to do anything about it; especially when the targets of its ire are sole individuals [like in this case], or certain establishments [i.e. the LA riots and kristallnacht]. Mob mentality is right up there with racism as the most vile form of collectivism, and both should be avoided at all costs--similarly, both can be [i]prevented if its members possess a shred of rationality.

A couple things to consider:

Often when random violence occurs, it happens fast. As in too fast to really form a response. Especially if the guy was (reasonably) expecting them to clear out of the way, instead of swarming the vehicle and beating him. Likely before he had gotten over the shock of them turning on him like that, driving through them was no longer an option. Also, the regular person isn't mentally prepared to kill someone else...even if he had considered driving through them before they turned on him, he likely discarded the action as one likely to cause serious harm if not death...remember...at that point, it's doubtful he would've expected the reaction they had to his horn blast.

This is all speculation of course. Just like the entire conversation. We have no idea how fast things really happened, what went through this guy's head, or whether a gun would've made any bloody difference at all.


I was relieving a debtor of his collateral one fine Camden morning at about 4am. Someone opened the front door of residence to send their rottweiler to stop me. Not wanting to run and get my ass torn off and scrambling for a weapon of opporotunity, I happened upon a spray can of Easy-Off oven cleaner in the guy's car.
It works great on big viscious dogs.

Anything can be used to defend yourself. Some people dont have the mindset or experience.

I've also learned I dont belong in Camden at 4am or anytime for that matter. Not being there in the first place is best course of action.

In your society, perhaps.
Supposition. That's assuming that particular person would react quickly enough to draw a weapon once he realised things were turning violent. He wasn't quick enough to drive through them...why would you assume he'd be quick enough to draw his gun?

In my society staying alive violently is always better than being killed not resisting.

I never mentioned the man, I mentioned me, I know that I can have my .45 in play in less than 2 seconds, which may not seem very fast, until you realise that they have to either break a window, or rip off my door to get me out, in that time, I can easily have the gun, out, loaded, and the safety off, ready to fire at the first head I see.

Sirrah. You would be honahed should you prove to be mah kin. Are there, pahchance any with the surname Stephens in youah family tree?


I know not Suh, ther are howevuh quite a few Daltons and Rolands.

Anything can be used to defend yourself. Some people dont have the mindset or experience.


This is the root of my argument. A gun is not necessarily going to solve things, or even be deployed in a way as to protect someone from violence. The kind of reflexes needed take training...and do you really want every citizen in your nation to have that kind of training? Doesn't anyone remember Rambo? WON'T SOMEONE THINK OF RAMBO!:eek:

I was relieving a debtor of his collateral one fine Camden morning at about 4am. Someone opened the front door of residence to send their rottweiler to stop me. Not wanting to run and get my ass torn off and scrambling for a weapon of opporotunity, I happened upon a spray can of Easy-Off oven cleaner in the guy's car.
It works great on big viscious dogs.

Anything can be used to defend yourself. Some people dont have the mindset or experience.

I've also learned I dont belong in Camden at 4am or anytime for that matter. Not being there in the first place is best course of action.
I never knew you were a repo man. Interesting line of work.

In my society staying alive violently is always better than being killed not resisting.

I never mentioned the man, I mentioned me, I know that I can have my .45 in play in less than 2 seconds, which may not seem very fast, until you realise that they have to either break a window, or rip off my door to get me out, in that time, I can easily have the gun, out, loaded, and the safety off, ready to fire at the first head I see.
And you'll get arrested for it. I am not aware of any state in the Union which permits its citizens to carry their guns loaded and in the cab of one's car. If you're in the habit of doing this, I'd advise reconsidering, as its a fairly serious offense.

I can hit a running target at about 30 yards with my .45, that close, no chance I'd miss more than three times.

EDIT: Gimme my shotgun and that goes right out the window, 12 gauge Slugs would tear them all to shit.
Who is the running target that you practice on?

A gun probably wouldn't have made much difference in this case, being as most states require you to keep them unloaded [and disassembled if possible] and in an area of the car which cannot be reached without leaving the car--presumably the trunk. If the guy had a piece and was carrying it in the glovebox or on the passenger seat, he may end up saving himself from a literal headache only to earn a legal one.

I'm not sure what bearing a concealed carry permit would have on this statute, but I imagine none since the apparent intent of making people keep their guns in the trunk is to curb road rage incidents.

The horrible thing about mob violence is that it's particularly difficult to do anything about it; especially when the targets of its ire are sole individuals [like in this case], or certain establishments [i.e. the LA riots and kristallnacht]. Mob mentality is right up there with racism as the most vile form of collectivism, and both should be avoided at all costs--similarly, both can be [i]prevented if its members possess a shred of rationality.

I dunno how things work out there, but if you have a CC permit, you don't need to keep it somewhere inconvenient, and if you don't have a permit, just leve it in plain sight, because in Virginia, open carry is legal too.

There is no such thing as "too much firepower." During the training course I was required to take in order to obtain my concealed carry permit, I was able to place a dime-sized shot-group of seven rounds to center target in under ten seconds at a distance of 25 metres. I'd say that's fairly decent shooting. :)

I dunno how things work out there, but if you have a CC permit, you don't need to keep it somewhere inconvenient, and if you don't have a permit, just leave it in plain sight, because in Virginia, open carry is legal too.
Ditto for North Carolina. :)

In my society staying alive violently is always better than being killed not resisting.

I never mentioned the man, I mentioned me, I know that I can have my .45 in play in less than 2 seconds, which may not seem very fast, until you realise that they have to either break a window, or rip off my door to get me out, in that time, I can easily have the gun, out, loaded, and the safety off, ready to fire at the first head I see.
I like you.
But I am poor, so I still I would either run 'em over or jump out and cut some of them till I die.

I do not know about the rest of Alaska, but in Anchorage we have about 10 traffic cops (last I heard which was almost exactly one year ago), the chances of them ever discovering you have a gun locked and loaded in your car are rare.

I never knew you were a repo man. Interesting line of work.

I wasnt supposed to be- I was the manager of the place, but sometimes you have to get things done.

Who is the running target that you practice on?

Deer. I occasionally run outta ammo, and so I'll use the pistol instead. .45s do a pretty good number on Deer if you hit them right.

And you'll get arrested for it. I am not aware of any state in the Union which permits its citizens to carry their guns loaded and in the cab of one's car. If you're in the habit of doing this, I'd advise reconsidering, as its a fairly serious offense.
Maybe I'm missing something, but I think all states will allow this for a CCW holder. Georgia will allow a loaded weapon to be stored in the glove compartment of an auto, even without the concealed weapons permit. We are talking about the Union meaning United States, aren't we?

Deer. I occasionally run outta ammo, and so I'll use the pistol instead. .45s do a pretty good number on Deer if you hit them right.
Jesus...how many times do you end up shooting the thing? And please, tell me right now that you eat the meat...or I'm going to puke.

There is no such thing as "too much firepower." During the training course I was required to take in order to obtain my concealed carry permit, I was able to place a dime-sized shot-group of seven rounds to center target in under ten seconds at a distance of 25 metres. I'd say that's fairly decent shooting. :)

Holy Shit!

You're better than me.

It's going to sound like total bullshit I'm making up to make a point, but it's true-I know a black dude with the last name McLain. You are correct, and I am mistaken, taken in by naming paradigms that are no longer valid. The victim is African American. However, that does not change the point that driving a vehicle through a crowd of mostly-teens would be crucified in the media and courts. Only difference would be the lack of race-riots...
And Milwaukee appears to be over 3/4ths cracker (http://www.cityrating.com/citystats.asp?city=Milwaukee&state=WI). Not the inner city...
Annnnyway...I don't want to get in the middle of all this dick wagging about how you all would have dealt with 15 people.
Simply as best as I could - albeit with different equipment and tactics. How effective that might have been is, as Sinuhue said, speculative. My points and position come from my experience dealing with armed and unarmed beligerants - one of whom tried to carjack me. Your milage may vary.

I like you.
But I am poor, so I still I would either run 'em over or jump out and cut some of them till I die.

I do not know about the rest of Alaska, but in Anchorage we have about 10 traffic cops (last I heard which was almost exactly one year ago), the chances of them ever discovering you have a gun locked and loaded in your car are rare.

In my city, they don't care. The wonders of both being well liked by the Cops and open carry\concealed carry are many.

I know not Suh, ther are howevuh quite a few Daltons and Rolands.
Ah! My number two daughter was married to a Dalton for a mercifully brief period of time.

Ah! My number two daughter was married to a Dalton for a mercifully brief period of time.

I'm related to a very famous gang of Daltons, it's actually kinda interestin...

Jesus...how many times do you end up shooting the thing? And please, tell me right now that you eat the meat...or I'm going to puke.

Repeatedly... I'll say no more thqan hat, because I lost count after the second clip...

And yes, Venison is very good.

I'm related to a very famous gang of Daltons, it's actually kinda interestin...
That's interesting. My ancestry includes Annie Oakley. One of my tenants was a Garrett. Yes, the Pat Garrett branch.

In your society, perhaps.
Supposition. That's assuming that particular person would react quickly enough to draw a weapon once he realised things were turning violent. He wasn't quick enough to drive through them...why would you assume he'd be quick enough to draw his gun?For the legal reasons mentioned, I "wouldn't be quick enough to drive through them". I WOULD, however, be quick enough to display my firearm, which is quite accessible from the seated, driving position. The first person to see the muzzle would be standing at the driver's door.

Holy Shit!

You're better than me.
Years and years of training and experience, my friend. I was always taught that if you can hit the broad side of a barn with a US Army issue .45, you can hit the eyelashs of a gnat at 20 metres with a match pistol anytime. :D

Anything can be used to defend yourself. Some people dont have the mindset or experience.

I've also learned I dont belong in Camden at 4am or anytime for that matter. Not being there in the first place is best course of action.
Amen.

I'm related to a very famous gang of Daltons, it's actually kinda interestin...
I sincerely hope that you have not inherited their rather ... antisocial tendencies! :D

For the legal reasons mentioned, I "wouldn't be quick enough to drive through them". I WOULD, however, be quick enough to display my firearm, which is quite accessible from the seated, driving position. The first person to see the muzzle would be standing at the driver's door.
Hell, man! That could ruin his entire frakking day! :D

This is the root of my argument. A gun is not necessarily going to solve things, or even be deployed in a way as to protect someone from violence. The kind of reflexes needed take training...and do you really want every citizen in your nation to have that kind of training?Yes. Worked for the Swiss for the last couple of hundered years, and the Israelis for the last 60...

Years and years of training and experience, my friend. I was always taught that if you can hit the broad side of a barn with a US Army issue .45, you can hit the eyelashs of a gnat at 20 metres with a match pistol anytime. :D

I have a lot of catching up to do.

Years and years of training and experience, my friend. I was always taught that if you can hit the broad side of a barn with a US Army issue .45, you can hit the eyelashs of a gnat at 20 metres with a match pistol anytime. :D
I'm a living contradiction to that rule. I qualified "Expert" with my .45 every single time. I still can't group shots like that with a pistol. More like a DVD sized group at either 25 or 50 yards.

And you'll get arrested for it. I am not aware of any state in the Union which permits its citizens to carry their guns loaded and in the cab of one's car. If you're in the habit of doing this, I'd advise reconsidering, as its a fairly serious offense.Any State with a CCW law permits its permit holders to carry (concealed) in their vehicle.

Hell, man! That could ruin his entire frakking day! :D
It certainly did for the guy with the tire iron. Unfortunately, it took a fraction of a second longer to point it at the passenger door for the carjacker... had the same effect though.

Yes. Worked for the Swiss for the last couple of hundered years, and the Israelis for the last 60...
Exactly.

"Power springs from the barrell of a gun." - Mao Tse Tung

"So does freedom. It just depends upon who's holding the gun." Forrest Horn

:D

Repeatedly... I'll say no more thqan hat, because I lost count after the second clip... Christ...you like your meat with slugs in it? Let's just hope you don't wing the gall bladder...*shudders* What the heck kind of 'hunter' are you that you need to empty more than two clips into it?

I have a lot of catching up to do.
Two-hand grip, slightly bent knees, breath control, sight-picture, sight-alignment, trigger squeeze ... and lots and lots of practice. :)

I'm a living contradiction to that rule. I qualified "Expert" with my .45 every single time. I still can't group shots like that with a pistol. More like a DVD sized group at either 25 or 50 yards.
Which actually isn't all that bad. I suggest you work on your wrist strength. Sometimes, developing your grip and your wrist strength will help build accuracy more than anything else you can work on.

Christ...you like your meat with slugs in it? Let's just hope you don't wing the gall bladder...*shudders* What the heck kind of 'hunter' are you that you need to empty more than two clips into it?
I can't say as I disagree... I hunt with a muzzleloader. Plus, it's quite illegal here in Indiana to even CARRY a "not legal for X-game" firearm in the field during hunting season (if you are licensed to hunt that season. If not, CCW applies).

Edit: .45acp is not legal for anything but varmint/small game. .357 is the "smallest" they allow - and then it must be from a 4" barrel.

Which actually isn't all that bad. I suggest you work on your wrist strength. Sometimes, developing your grip and your wrist strength will help build accuracy more than anything else you can work on.
You're right. I can recognize a lack of practice when I see it. Problem is those 45 rounds are way too expensive to shoot more than once a week. And when I shoot 22 cal rounds, there's a certain something missing.

But, I'm not going to Camp Perry, just trying to be ready to discourage some unwanted guest should the need arise.

You're right. I can recognize a lack of practice when I see it. Problem is those 45 rounds are way too expensive to shoot more than once a week. And when I shoot 22 cal rounds, there's a certain something missing.3 words: Dillon Progressive Reloader. (RCBS Progressive is good too...) Worth every penny.

All I can tell you guys is to go simple.
Remember D-day's quote from Animal House?

RAAAAMMMMMINNGGG SPPEEEEEED!!!!!!!!!!!!
Add on a train locomotive horn to your car
or truck, and watch them leave skid marks in their
underwear!

3 words: Dillon Progressive Reloader. (RCBS Progressive is good too...) Worth every penny.
I say those three words to myself every time the 'Blue News' or whatever Dillon calls it, shows up in the mailbox. I say some other things about the models on the cover.

can I ask you guys if a Desert Eagle .50
would be overkill in a situation like this or not?

You're right. I can recognize a lack of practice when I see it. Problem is those 45 rounds are way too expensive to shoot more than once a week. And when I shoot 22 cal rounds, there's a certain something missing.

But, I'm not going to Camp Perry, just trying to be ready to discourage some unwanted guest should the need arise.
LOL! Kewl.

Do not practice with anything other than the round you intend to carry in your weapon! And make sure you practice exactly as you would fight.

I recall the story about a group of civilian police personnel who got into a firefight with a couple of desperados. Several of the police were shot while changing magazines because they stopped to pick the discarded magazines up. Turns out they had been doing all their training of changing magazines by picking up the mags one at a time immediately after dropping them. Bad move.

Engrave this on the back of your hand: How you train is how you will fight. Make certain your training presupposes a "hot" environment, involving multiple shooters and repeated magazine changes, with as little wasted motion as possible.

Add on a train locomotive horn to your car
or truck, and watch them leave skid marks in their
underwear!

Not a bad idea. Mount a huge air-horn under the hood with a switch that is activated only when you floor the accellerator. Cool. :D

can I ask you guys if a Desert Eagle .50
would be overkill in a situation like this or not?
OMG! Holy frakkin' shit, man! The idea is to discourage your opponent, not frakking shread his ass! LOL!

can I ask you guys if a Desert Eagle .50
would be overkill in a situation like this or not?
Yes. The Desert Eagle series is a lousy PDW because of its nonconcealability and weight. The .50AE cartridge only makes it worse.

If you can't fit it in a jacket pocket, it's not for self defense.

Christ...you like your meat with slugs in it? Let's just hope you don't wing the gall bladder...*shudders* What the heck kind of 'hunter' are you that you need to empty more than two clips into it?

One that ran out of mmo, and wanted to make the kill. At a range that is less than optimal for accuracy with snap shots from a pistol...

Do not practice with anything other than the round you intend to carry in your weapon! And make sure you practice exactly as you would fight.not quite accurate...

Do not practice with anything other than the same weight, pressure and fps as the round you intend to carry in your weapon!

The ballistic difference between cast lead & factory self-defense loads won't make enough accuracy difference to matter, but the rest will.

Have yet to see what race the attackers and the attacked are. It is also left out of the other stories that happened previously in this area. I would be very curious.

Yes. The Desert Eagle series is a lousy PDW because of its nonconcealability and weight. The .50AE cartridge only makes it worse.

If you can't fit it in a jacket pocket, it's not for self defense.

Dam Straight. I knew a guy who carried a .357 DE, and I laughed at him every time he showed it off. Sure, it's menacing, but it's also as has been mentioned, so big you can't really conceal it very well.

The .45 I use is an iffy proposition most of the time, more so if I go with Jeans and a T-Shirt. Which is why Open Carry is your friend...

Have yet to see what race the attackers and the attacked are. It is also left out of the other stories that happened previously in this area. I would be very curious.
Attacked guy is black. The Milwakee Journal Online has a pic. The Kids involved are not identified.

All this makes me want to take a chapter outta the Police handbook and mount Digital Cameras in my car. so that I can sue the asses off those punks (or their families if they're minors)

Sure you can shoot em, but if you kill em, they won't learn nuthin.

Attacked guy is black. The Milwakee Journal Online has a pic. The Kids involved are not identified.


My question then would be if these are a series of hate crimes. Therefore in most jurisdictions it would bring a more severe penalty.

My question then would be if these are a series of hate crimes. Therefore in most jurisdictions it would bring a more severe penalty.

Black on Black(and in that area, it's gonna be black kids attacking...) wouldn't be a hate crime, unfortunately.

Yes. The Desert Eagle series is a lousy PDW because of its nonconcealability and weight. The .50AE cartridge only makes it worse.

If you can't fit it in a jacket pocket, it's not for self defense.

well it worked well for Bullet Tooth Tony in Snatch right?
lol!

Not a bad idea. Mount a huge air-horn under the hood with a switch that is activated only when you floor the accellerator. Cool. :D
I like the accellerator switch idea! Thanks! lol!

Keep your doors locked. When they approach the car, hit the gas. cars make better weapons than guns.

Keep your doors locked. When they approach the car, hit the gas.Go to jail forever. You will never be able to prove they were out to hurt you untill they do damage to your car that could not be made by hitting a pedestrian. cars make better weapons than guns.As said before...

Go to jail forever. You will never be able to prove they were out to hurt you untill they do damage to your car that could not be made by hitting a pedestrian. As said before...

I'd rather run over a bunch of idiots, than wait for them to drag me out and kill me?
Would you let them do that to you?

I'd rather run over a bunch of idiots, than wait for them to drag me out and kill me? Would you let them do that to you?No. I would, however display my firearm and give them the option of running away first. And if one of them started shooting? Well, actually getting hit by a bullet while driving is fairly difficult, and THEN I could legally plow over anybody who got in my way.

not quite accurate...

Do not practice with anything other than the same weight, pressure and fps as the round you intend to carry in your weapon!

The ballistic difference between cast lead & factory self-defense loads won't make enough accuracy difference to matter, but the rest will.
Well, yeah, but most people don't bother to figure out the relative weights, pressures and feet per second of the rounds they use. I was giving a good rule of thumb, not trying to teach anyone how to become a competition shooter or a reloader. :p

that is true though too!
But as it was said before,
sometimes even displaying a gun can lead to
more violence! (Holy crap! I cant believe I said that!)
lol! But, if you hit em fast and make a quick getaway, well you might get lucky!
Seriously though, my godfather was driving home one night
through the west side side of Chicago, and it was pretty late too.
he was coming through a side street and there was a group
of men standing in the street, I dont know three or four.
Any way, He honked the horn to get them to move and they didnt.
They started to make threatining gestures at him, so you know what he did?
He backed up, turned off the headlights, and put the pedal to the metal right at them!
They went diving for cover like a bunch of wussies!
HAH!

Go to jail forever. You will never be able to prove they were out to hurt you untill they do damage to your car that could not be made by hitting a pedestrian. As said before...
Does it seem weird to anyone else to be more worried about the legal ramifications of driving through an attacking mob more than pulling a gun?

And while this took me a while to figure out, but the gas pedal isn't a switch but rather has a curve, so to speak, allowing the driver a fair amount of control of the speed of a car. And anyone who has ignored a plea to 'not try this at home' has learned that a car doesn't have to be going very fast to be too hard to jump on. Also, there is a lever I find that most cars have that allows the car to actually drive backwards away from approaching mobs, not to mention a wheel, usually in front of the driver, that allows the driver to manuver the car in the direction he or she desires. Actually, one can argue that to 'drive' a car is to use all of these devices to manipulate the car with a fair amount of control.

Does it seem weird to anyone else to be more worried about the legal ramifications of driving through an attacking mob more than pulling a gun?Why? Driving through a mob WILL cause harm. Displaying a gun (i.e. the willingness to defend oneself) harms no one.
And while this took me a while to figure out, but the gas pedal isn't a switch but rather has a curve, so to speak, allowing the driver a fair amount of control of the speed of a car. And anyone who has ignored a plea to 'not try this at home' has learned that a car doesn't have to be going very fast to be too hard to jump on. Also, there is a lever I find that most cars have that allows the car to actually drive backwards away from approaching mobs, not to mention a wheel, usually in front of the driver, that allows the driver to manuver the car in the direction he or she desires. Actually, one can argue that to 'drive' a car is to use all of these devices to manipulate the car with a fair amount of control.Have you ever taken an E&E driving course? I have. Most people can hardly drive in a straight line when calm, much less stressed. Driving rapidly and effectively (i.e. not hitting somthing and grinding to a halt) in reverse take almost as much training as proper gun handling... and fewer people do it. Ditto for bootleg turns and other TV stunts.

And again, if you damage anything/hurt anyone doing said stunts BEFORE your car is forensicly identifiably damaged by attackers, YOU are liable.

I'm not liable for jack if I display a firearm and they run away.

ARF would love for a Mob to surround his vehicle. Arf Drives a 6000 pound Diesel powered car. ARF loves Mobs, and ARF's car loves Mob. Mobs do not like ARF or his car. ARF's car has big tires for running over fleeing mobs. Run mobs run!

:D

Why? Driving through a mob WILL cause harm. Displaying a gun (i.e. the willingness to defend oneself) harms no one.
Have you ever taken an E&E driving course? I have. Most people can hardly drive in a straight line when calm, much less stressed. Driving rapidly and effectively (i.e. not hitting somthing and grinding to a halt) in reverse take almost as much training as proper gun handling... and fewer people do it. Ditto for bootleg turns and other TV stunts.

And again, if you damage anything/hurt anyone doing said stunts BEFORE your car is forensicly identifiably damaged by attackers, YOU are liable.

I'm not liable for jack if I display a firearm and they run away.

If you are going to display a gun, it had better be something worth flashing. An AR15 with a BETA-C mag (90 round drum for those who don't know) or a short-barreled RPK with a chinese 100 round drum would make mincemeat of most large city mobs :D

I love Justifiable homicide.

If you are going to display a gun, it had better be something worth flashing. An AR15 with a BETA-C mag (90 round drum for those who don't know) or a short-barreled RPK with a chinese 100 round drum would make mincemeat of most large city mobs :D

I love Justifiable homicide.


How cool would a classic Thompson with a 100 rd drum mag be? Imagine the chatter...

Have you ever taken an E&E driving course? I have. Most people can hardly drive in a straight line when calm, much less stressed. Driving rapidly and effectively (i.e. not hitting somthing and grinding to a halt) in reverse take almost as much training as proper gun handling... and fewer people do it. Ditto for bootleg turns and other TV stunts.



Yep-I have. Worth every penny.

How cool would a classic Thompson with a 100 rd drum mag be? Imagine the chatter...
http://www.jimcarreyonline.com/images/albums/movies/mask/stills/normal_mask-still31.jpg

And for my next trick.... A Tommy Gun!

http://www.jimcarreyonline.com/images/albums/movies/mask/stills/mask-still50.jpg

ARF would love for a Mob to surround his vehicle. Arf Drives a 6000 pound Diesel powered car. ARF loves Mobs, and ARF's car loves Mob. Mobs do not like ARF or his car. ARF's car has big tires for running over fleeing mobs. Run mobs run!

:D
ROFLMFAO!!! WTF, over! LOL! :D

And for my next trick.... A Tommy Gun!
http://www.jimcarreyonline.com/images/albums/movies/mask/stills/mask-still50.jpg

As long as we can choose a fully automatic weapon, I like the Tommy gun for its classic style.

I want to be stylish when I mow down an angry mob.

Yep-I have. Worth every penny.
Get to do the Ice Pad?

I like the accellerator switch idea! Thanks! lol!

I want one of these:

http://www.jimcarreyonline.com/images/albums/movies/mask/stills/normal_mask-still30.jpg

Get to do the Ice Pad?

No- we had a flooded parking lot, with and without anti lock brakes.

As long as we can choose a fully automatic weapon, I like the Tommy gun for its classic style. I want to be stylish when I mow down an angry mob.

And this isn't?

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y180/MrMisanthrope/LEFTFRONT_400.jpg

The RAPTOR Mark III is the fastest and most versatile security vehicle in the world. It mounts a devastating choice of firepower as well as a comprehensive assortment of non-lethal weapons, all interchangeable and deployed through a retractable top.It is shown here with the M-134 7.62 mm Minigun which has a rate of fire 3,000 rounds per minute. With weapons stowed the RAPTOR appears to be a civilian vehicle.

The only SUV I'll own... :D

And this isn't?

http://www.saracen.org/LEFTFRONT_400.JPG

The RAPTOR Mark III is the fastest and most versatile security vehicle in the world. It mounts a devastating choice of firepower as well as a comprehensive assortment of non-lethal weapons, all interchangeable and deployed through a retractable top.It is shown here with the M-134 7.62 mm Minigun which has a rate of fire 3,000 rounds per minute. With weapons stowed the RAPTOR appears to be a civilian vehicle.

The only SUV I'll own... :D

I saw that- it may have been in here. Very cool. A chain gun in a car.

The Thompson has a place in my heart though. And it doesnt need electricity. I think that chain gun does.

I saw that- it may have been in here. Very cool. A chain gun in a car.

The Thompson has a place in my heart though. And it doesnt need electricity. I think that chain gun does.
In an urban setting I'd probably replace the Minigun with a hopper-fed auto 12ga.

Even loaded with bean-bags it would be fun! :D

No- we had a flooded parking lot, with and without anti lock brakes.
Ah. Curse my age... were'nt no such thing as "anti-lock brakes" when I took it. OTOH, ALBs really bollox up the good maneuvers. And if you don't have a good hand-brake, you may as well not play.

Just goes to show why I'm happily livin in the Great Island that is Great Britain rather than the Good Ol' US of A.

Just goes to show why I'm happily livin in the Great Island that is Great Britain rather than the Good Ol' US of A.


Well-you wont die at a soccer game in the US.

Ah. Curse my age... were'nt no such thing as "anti-lock brakes" when I took it. OTOH, ALBs really bollox up the good maneuvers. And if you don't have a good hand-brake, you may as well not play.


I'm 38. ALBs have been around for a while. The difference from front wheel drive and rear wheel drive was more aggravating

But my gun is not a single shot... but Oh yeah, I forgot... that's why the criminal advocacy/gun control groups fought to limit magazine size... :rolleyes:

Doesn't matter, you can't keep shooting as a mass of them grab you and drag you from the car, but they will let you die fighting. ;)

Well-you wont die at a soccer game in the US.

Because no one goes to football games in the US. ;)

ROFLMFAO!!! WTF, over! LOL! :D

Did ARF ever mention that he LOVES looters? Oh yes, ARF and his AK-47 LOVE looters......

I want to get a GP-30 (30 mm grenade launcher, mounted underbarrel) for my kalashnikov so I can really get that 'area effect' when dealing with riotous city dwellers.

Either that or a towed cannon loaded with canister shot :D

Did ARF ever mention that he LOVES looters? Oh yes, ARF and his AK-47 LOVE looters......

I want to get a GP-30 (30 mm grenade launcher, mounted underbarrel) for my kalashnikov so I can really get that 'area effect' when dealing with riotous city dwellers.

Either that or a towed cannon loaded with canister shot :D
Twat.

I'm 38. ALBs have been around for a while. The difference from front wheel drive and rear wheel drive was more aggravatingHm. I am 38 as well, but none of the Govt cars I trained on had them.

well sick :mp5: shoot them on site

I was going to post this, but had to change computers before I could do so.

But here's my stock answer:

This is exactly why I carry a gun.

Unfortunately, the simplest, and best, response to an attack like this (stepping on the gas) would have put the guy in the dock forever...

HEADLINE: 50y/o white guy plows into group of minority youths! Race Riots follow!

Peh.
To be fair the race card would not have to be played to get this guy in legal trouble for running down pedestrians

To be fair the race card would not have to be played to get this guy in legal trouble for running down pedestrians
I know. I mention that much further down the thread. Also, I found out he is Black, so the "Race Riot" part is moot anyway.

I know. I mention that much further down the thread. Also, I found out he is Black, so the "Race Riot" part is moot anyway.
Lol that would tend to nullify it lol

Hm. I am 38 as well, but none of the Govt cars I trained on had them.

Crown Vics? Impalla SS?

Crown Vics? Impalla SS?
Army K Cars. :rolleyes: Never got to drive anyone important enough for Civ badged cars.

Army K Cars. :rolleyes: Never got to drive anyone important enough for Civ badged cars.

Yikes!! A K Car? My hats off to you,man. I you could E & E in one of those, you're good. Thats a horror when you think the ones you're driving defensively against and trying to escape or evade WILL NEVER BE DRIVING ONE OF THOSE. I will say I've made a Ford Escort do some pretty fancy things, way back.

Yikes!! A K Car? My hats off to you,man. I you could E & E in one of those, you're good. Thats a horror when you think the ones you're driving defensively against and trying to escape or evade WILL NEVER BE DRIVING ONE OF THOSE. I will say I've made a Ford Escort do some pretty fancy things, way back.
My guess is they figure if you can learn the techniques in a K car you can do them in anything.

Sort of true... you should see what I could make my old Geo Tracker do without flipping. :D

My guess is they figure if you can learn the techniques in a K car you can do them in anything.

Sort of true... you should see what I could make my old Geo Tracker do without flipping. :D

I think thats the case. It like conditioning you to have bigger balls. If you can avoid danger in a K Car, imagine how well you'll do in a Caddy or a Town Car.

I used to drive a Fiero GT on a frozen lake, get it up to speed and pull the emergency brake.

A driver who honked at a bunch of morons who were standing in the street preventing him from driving was draged from his car and beaten severely by the gang of scum. Let that be a lesson to us all. When people won't get out of the way of your car, just run the fuckers over.

http://www.azcentral.com/offbeat/articles/1227mob-beating27-ON.html
Run the bastards over but with Shopping Trolleys filled with crates of Beer repeatedly.

I still prefer a good old sword.

I can hit a running target at about 30 yards with my .45, that close, no chance I'd miss more than three times.

EDIT: Gimme my shotgun and that goes right out the window, 12 gauge Slugs would tear them all to shit.
12 gauge is already good, but you should fill it with salt corns - It won't kill them (so nobody can sue you for it), but certainly cause a good displeasure among them! :D

I still prefer a good old sword.

I'd rather two knives.