NationStates Jolt Archive

Nevermind the whole Zombie-Washington part, what do you think he'd say about the U.S. if he suddenly came here?


About the Civil War? WW1? The Great Depression? The spread from the Atlantic to thr Pacific? WW2? The Cold War? The Space Race? The Democratic and Republican parties? Michael Jackson?

He would be amazed at all that has changed.

Now after the shock and you sat him down for a chat about the goverment, you might get a different answer.

Tangent: My ancestor was his neighbor and comrade in arms(before the revolution). :)

The women wearing pants'd probably leave him confused.

http://img421.imageshack.us/img421/9346/nowaiwashington9sk.th.png (http://img421.imageshack.us/my.php?image=nowaiwashington9sk.png)
Hurriedly inserted into pic thx to paint XD

The women wearing pants'd probably leave him confused.
Not to forget the Black people with money and the vote.

He'd be impressed by the fact that the elitism in the constitution had remained stable for a long time, I figure.

He'd be pissed about the abolishment of slavery (Sorry, but it's true), probably would spit nails at our foreign policy, and would approve of general social conservatism.

He'd totally flip out and chop people's heads off.

I think that he would be mad that the moral fibers of the country had been stripped away. Also he would be upset that the government had turned into the very thing that he swore to destroy. The government has turned into a sprawling breaucratic mass with politicians caring nothing for the people and only for themselves and their own reputation.

He'd totally flip out and chop people's heads off.

And then he wouldn't tell lies about it.

seeing that the federal governments powers are no longer few and enumerated, but that it has usurped broad and almost limitless responsibility, he would be raising an army before long to free his fellow countrymen from the yoke of tyranny.

Also he would be upset that the government had turned into the very thing that he swore to destroy.
He swore to destroy people that wanted some of his money. That was the primary reason - and the rest, as they say, is history.
These guys weren't gods, you know.

Once he got used to the more obvious changes, he probably wouldn't care much about the current political situation. Washington wasn't exactly as fervent a revolutionary as some of his compatriots. Now if Thomas Paine or James Madison returned from the dead, they might have some more to say.

Once he got used to the more obvious changes, he probably wouldn't care much about the current political situation. Washington wasn't exactly as fervent a revolutionary as some of his compatriots. Now if Thomas Paine or James Madison returned from the dead, they might have some more to say.

Madison? You betchya! He would be yelling at people to stop misusing his comments! ;)

He'd look, back away slowly, and discreetly pass his fortunes to the Libertarian Party.

He'd look, back away slowly, and discreetly pass his fortunes to the Libertarian Party.

:D You guys are funny. :D

I remember in college we had a rabid republican, democrat, anarchist and a communist take the liberterian test. They all scored as liberts.

All the founders were one right? :D

Not to forget the Black people with money and the vote.
Or even the men in dresses...

He swore to destroy people that wanted some of his money. That was the primary reason - and the rest, as they say, is history.
These guys weren't gods, you know.

And he'd probably be infuriated that life in his country became the taxathon that it is today. And he'd probably hate us for not taking that whole "avoid entangling alliances" thing a bit more seriously. Our foreign policy isn't exactly what he would have had in mind.

All the founders were one right? :D

By today's political standards, probably. They were elitist classical liberals, after all, committed to liberty and popular sovereignty but with the reservation that rich people would be able to protect their wealth from the unenlightened masses.

Like today's Libertarians they feared both an elitist tyranny of the minority, like the British monarchy, and a populist tyranny of the majority that would "oppress" the rich and take away their wealth.

The exception is on the issue of race; the Founders were a pretty racist bunch, though of course that was the typical attitude for the period.

And he'd probably be infuriated that life in his country became the taxathon that it is today. And he'd probably hate us for not taking that whole "avoid entangling alliances" thing a bit more seriously. Our foreign policy isn't exactly what he would have had in mind.
Then again, I don't think he ever expected American troops to be in London to be celebrated.

But yes, I see what you mean.

By today's political standards, probably. They were elitist classical liberals, after all, committed to liberty and popular sovereignty but with the reservation that rich people would be able to protect their wealth from the unenlightened masses.Um... actually no... here is an interesting quote from Jefferson...

"I know of no safe depository of the ultimate powers of the society but the people themselves; and if we think them not enlightened enough to exercise their control with wholesome discretion, the remedy is not to take it from them, but to inform their discretion by education."

Um... actually no... here is an interesting quote from Jefferson...

"I know of no safe depository of the ultimate powers of the society but the people themselves; and if we think them not enlightened enough to exercise their control with wholesome discretion, the remedy is not to take it from them, but to inform their discretion by education."

And, as I said, they did provide for "rule of the people." They were also rather concerned with checking its excesses.

And, as I said, they did provide for "rule of the people." They were also rather concerned with checking its excesses.
As in?

He'd be at least happy that the nation he fought for didn't collapse in to anarchy 10 years after he died.

The women wearing pants'd probably leave him confused.



Thanks for giving me a laugh, that was priceless :D

He'd start a revolution, pollutin the air waves (a rebel) so let him just revel and bask in the fact that he's got everyone kissing his ass.

he would be happy that we abolished slavery, sad that it took the civil war to get it done and sad that racism is still a factor in american life.

He'd start a revolution, pollutin the air waves (a rebel) so let him just revel and bask in the fact that he's got everyone kissing his ass.
I would kiss George Washington's ass, if just to say that I had kissed George Washington's ass.

He would be pretty fucking pissed at how bad our beer is.

Nevermind the whole Zombie-Washington part, what do you think he'd say about the U.S. if he suddenly came here?


About the Civil War? WW1? The Great Depression? The spread from the Atlantic to thr Pacific? WW2? The Cold War? The Space Race? The Democratic and Republican parties? Michael Jackson?

I think his reaction would be, "I guess we didn't have it so bad under King George; and considering how quickly he died, we only would have needed to wait a few more years".

And so, rather than having a nation of basball playing harlequins, the US would consist of 300million droll tea drinkers enjoying the lively game of cricket and laughing at the 0.1% who call themselves Christian fundamentalists vs. the 80% of Americans who currently are that persuasion.

I'm pretty sure he'd be dissapointed by a lot of stuff that happened in America, but probably would want to be left alone. If I recall, he wasn't very enthusiastic about receiving the Presidency, and he didn't seek to become involved in politics.

Now a REALLY interesting question, to me at least, is what would Benjamin Franklin say if he came back to life?

Well, if you just took Washington and planted him down in the middle of NYC with limited knowledge, he'd probably confused, as:
1. Our social practices are really freakin' different
and
2. I don't think of Washington as a guy who would run around chopping heads off
and
3. This leaves "really, really confused"


HOWEVER, if we just had a conversation with Washington, he'd probably be pretty damn pleased that we've survived and became a superpower, though he may not be too excited about the foreign policy of the last 40 years (or the first 20 years of the 20th century)

Well, if you just took Washington and planted him down in the middle of NYC with limited knowledge, he'd probably confused, as:
1. Our social practices are really freakin' different
and
2. I don't think of Washington as a guy who would run around chopping heads off
and
3. This leaves "really, really confused"


HOWEVER, if we just had a conversation with Washington, he'd probably be pretty damn pleased that we've survived and became a superpower, though he may not be too excited about the foreign policy of the last 40 years (or the first 20 years of the 20th century)
Or those 40 years between 1920-1960?

He'd be sad because Lincoln is in more minigolf courses than he is.

Or those 40 years between 1920-1960?
Nah, I'd think he'd be rather pleased...except that he would've gone to war with Germany in 1915.

Nah, I'd think he'd be rather pleased...except that he would've gone to war with Germany in 1915.
Ahem...why?

Various imperialist monarchies going at each other - why would Mr. "No Entangeling Alliances is my foreign policy" get involved?

The Lusitania was sunk because the US sold weapons to Britain, thus making the ship a military target. Plus all passengers had been warned.
And finally, does that mean that he would've gone to war everytime an American citizen had been killed anywhere?

I think the question of his pleasur or otherwise would be less in the political states and more in the progress that has been made. I think he would be pleased with the expansion of america and it's influence, the emansipation and banning of slavery, and the economy that has gone from a plantation-based agrarian society to the (soon to be eclipsed but for now intact) dominent industrial powe in thw world

...the emansipation and banning of slavery, and the economy that has gone from a plantation-based agrarian society to the (soon to be eclipsed but for now intact) dominent industrial powe in thw world
Are you aware of what he did for a living?

He'd plotz if he saw a map of the United States now compared to one from the time of his death.

"There's a New Mexico?":D

I'm pretty sure he'd be dissapointed by a lot of stuff that happened in America, but probably would want to be left alone. If I recall, he wasn't very enthusiastic about receiving the Presidency, and he didn't seek to become involved in politics.

Now a REALLY interesting question, to me at least, is what would Benjamin Franklin say if he came back to life?


Where are the French women?

Ahem...why?

Various imperialist monarchies going at each other - why would Mr. "No Entangeling Alliances is my foreign policy" get involved?

The Lusitania was sunk because the US sold weapons to Britain, thus making the ship a military target. Plus all passengers had been warned.
?
The Lusitania still was an attack without warning on a ship that did carry civilians. Washington was a man of unconventional military tactics, sure, but submarine warfare would probably be far too unconventional for him. I'd expect idealism to take over at that point, provided he thought that America could win.

And finally, does that mean that he would've gone to war everytime an American citizen had been killed anywhere
*shrugs* Possibly

The Founding Fathers question:

Would they be pleased?

Would they be proud of us?


Let me tell you what their reaction would be.
The Founding Fathers, would be amazed that America survived as a nation, and even thrived, and became the lone super-power in the world.
These men were not saints, nor men of superior moral fiber.
They were unhappy liberals who resented the conservative control of a monarchy, that was excersizing ever-constricting control on one of its territories.

They are not men to emulate in real life, some of them were slave owners, drunkards, adulterers, losers, and wife-beaters.
But they did possess character and courage to defy the most powerful nation at the time, and declare independance.
A task wich few have done.

These men would be shocked that thier nation has not been re-absorbed by Britian, or even France.
They would be alarmed at the current reunification of church and state.

He'd start a revolution, pollutin the air waves (a rebel) so let him just revel and bask in the fact that he's got everyone kissing his ass.

Interestingly, considering many people keep their wallets in the back pocket of their shorts/pants/whatever the hell they're wearing, I would say it's safe to say that Georgie here has been kissing all of our asses.

I personally think it'd be funny to plop him down in the middle of modern America with no forewarning and make a movie outta it.


Hell, movies would confuse him/scare him, planes too. Even those little robotic dogs/raptors/whatever with artificial intelligence would make him open those eyes wide...

He'd be impressed by the fact that the elitism in the constitution had remained stable for a long time, I figure.

He'd be pissed about the abolishment of slavery (Sorry, but it's true), probably would spit nails at our foreign policy, and would approve of general social conservatism.

Social Conservatism... are you refering to Bush and the Republicans. BTW americans look like fools to the rest of the world. its true, no getting round it. Vote him in once, weeeelll thats okay. But twice :(
George Washinton would be PISSED cos of the policies of america.
and Reeeelly pissed that there actually friends with Britain.

I bet that Washington has been spinning in his grave so vigorously, if you hooked up a generator to him he'd produce more electricity than the Hoover Dam. He'd first be confused and surprised and then pissed as hell.

Are you aware of what he did for a living?
yes but he freed his slaves in his will and wanted to free them before that. he didnt because most of the slaves on mt vernon werent his but his wife's and his wife's family's and they wouldnt hear of it. washington was reluctant to split up families by freeing some and not others.

Washington would be amazed that the country still exists; disgusted and angered by our foreign policies since the 19th century and by the size, cost, and intrusiveness of our government (regardless of the fact that it's not as intrusive as many others); would be happy to see so many of the principals of the Bill of Rights being lived out every day; but ultimately would have zero interest in participating in our lifestyle, which is way, way too blue-collar, touchy-feely, and downright vulgar for him. He'd rather buy Mt. Vernon back and return to the much more gentlemanly pursuit of mule breeding. UNTIL enough people begged and whined and pleaded and petted and fawned on him to get back into politics -- and then he probably would. Because I think our foreign policies would REALLY piss him off. But man, if you thought Kerry was too snobby to get elected -- you don't know the meaning of the word snob if you haven't researched Mr. G. Washington.

Just about any of the others, of course, would just restart the revolution -- except possibly John Adams and Alexander Hamilton. Adams would very quickly become the leading lawyer in the country, get elected to Congress, and then restart the revolution. Hamilton would out-do Bill Gates in business and Alan Greenspan in finance -- and then restart the revolution.

And Ben Franklin? I don't know what he'd do, but whatever it is, I'd want to do it with him. He's my favorite.

Washington's reaction after reading a US History textbook, "WE DID WHAT?!!?!"

Washington's reaction after reading a US History textbook, "WE DID WHAT?!!?!"
:D

And Ben Franklin? I don't know what he'd do, but whatever it is, I'd want to do it with him. He's my favorite.

Good choice. He would probably try to pick up women! ;)

yes but he freed his slaves in his will and wanted to free them before that. he didnt because most of the slaves on mt vernon werent his but his wife's and his wife's family's and they wouldnt hear of it. washington was reluctant to split up families by freeing some and not others.
Oh yes, a good slave owner.

I'd bet money with you that occasionally when he felt horny, he would've visited the slaves' living quarters.

What I'm saying is: don't project modern values on a guy who lived so long ago.

Washington was an isolationist. What he would say about Iraq, I don't know. He probably would say "THIS is why I told you not to get involved in foreign entanglements."

He would be humbled that his face is on our currency, that both the capital AND a state are named after him, and he would probably refuse to run for President again.

Ben Franklin, after a rapid-fire course in modern technology, would soon become the best Secretary of Energy in the history of the United States. He would be right at home in today's society. He'd probably hang out with Bill Gates a lot.

If Washington DID become President
- He would run as an independent
- Congress would NEVER override his veto, partially out of respect, and partially because the guy was about the scariest person of the 18th century
- He would go to Iraq, stomp the insurgents into the ground, then hightail it out of there.
- He would probably break half the treaties America has signed. The UN might have to find a new home after he withdraws from the UN.

Good choice. He would probably try to pick up women! ;)
And I'm that woman! :D

Washington was an isolationist. What he would say about Iraq, I don't know. He probably would say "THIS is why I told you not to get involved in foreign entanglements."

He would be humbled that his face is on our currency, that both the capital AND a state are named after him, and he would probably refuse to run for President again.

Ben Franklin, after a rapid-fire course in modern technology, would soon become the best Secretary of Energy in the history of the United States. He would be right at home in today's society. He'd probably hang out with Bill Gates a lot.

If Washington DID become President
- He would run as an independent
- Congress would NEVER override his veto, partially out of respect, and partially because the guy was about the scariest person of the 18th century
- He would go to Iraq, stomp the insurgents into the ground, then hightail it out of there.
- He would probably break half the treaties America has signed. The UN might have to find a new home after he withdraws from the UN.
I don't know that Washington could be humbled by anything. It amazes me that a guy who was so full of himself and such a snob and so loved being petted and admired, and who was so good at being in charge of other people, still had zero interest in being in charge of other people. That's why they called him "the modern Cincinnatus," because he refused power when it was offered to him. There are limits on presidential power today because Washington toned down the enthusiasm of the early Congress. They would have made him king, if he'd wanted.

But even so, I don't think he'd run for President today. I don't think he'd want it if it wasn't handed to him on a silver platter. Interesting personality.

As for Franklin, I'm not sure he'd get into politics today. There's so much more going on to interest him. I rather fancy him as a media mogul with tons of cash to invest in space exploration and anti-poverty programs. :D

- He would probably break half the treaties America has signed. The UN might have to find a new home after he withdraws from the UN.Good. I'd like to see that sometime in my life.

EDIT: With or without Washington!

Oh yes, a good slave owner.

I'd bet money with you that occasionally when he felt horny, he would've visited the slaves' living quarters.

What I'm saying is: don't project modern values on a guy who lived so long ago.
actually not. although there was one slave young enough to be his son who was treated so well that there was speculation that he was washingtons son. he was given a small farm next to mt vernon.

washington's stepson did have a child by his mother's (martha) black half-sister. thats pretty creepy.

actually not. although there was one slave young enough to be his son who was treated so well that there was speculation that he was washingtons son. he was given a small farm next to mt vernon.

washington's stepson did have a child by his mother's (martha) black half-sister. thats pretty creepy.
I think we can learn some lessons from the founders:

1) Anti-slavery people owning slaves is what happens when you try to reform a system from within. Remember, both Washington and Jefferson inherited this system as a way of doing agriculture, which had been in existence for over 100 years in the colonies before they showed up. They worked with the system, found it to be wrong, but then found it very difficult to get out of.

2) Sometimes even scary hillbillies can be smart and competent.

:D

The real question would be "how long would it take the DNP to convince him to run for office again?".

Now a REALLY interesting question, to me at least, is what would Benjamin Franklin say if he came back to life?
"Ho Ho Ho."

He'd be impressed by the fact that the elitism in the constitution had remained stable for a long time, I figure.

He'd be pissed about the abolishment of slavery (Sorry, but it's true), probably would spit nails at our foreign policy, and would approve of general social conservatism.
Um, no. He was one of a group of people who realized slavery was untenable in the long run, even if he liked it, which is highly debatable. As for the foreign policy, that would depend on whether you told him what we were doing without giving him the past 100 years of history and exactly how far the capabilities of war have increased..

Washington was an isolationist. What he would say about Iraq, I don't know. He probably would say "THIS is why I told you not to get involved in foreign entanglements."

If Washington DID become President
- He would run as an independent
- Congress would NEVER override his veto, partially out of respect, and partially because the guy was about the scariest person of the 18th century
- He would go to Iraq, stomp the insurgents into the ground, then hightail it out of there.
- He would probably break half the treaties America has signed. The UN might have to find a new home after he withdraws from the UN.
Actually, he was also a very, very hard-nosed pragmatist. He probably wouldn't have gone for regime change. Instead he probably would have authorized limited nuclear strikes.

Actually, he was also a very, very hard-nosed pragmatist. He probably wouldn't have gone for regime change. Instead he probably would have authorized limited nuclear strikes.
Why does everyone insist on transposing their own politics on dead people?

Why does everyone insist on transposing their own politics on dead people?
That wasn't imposing politics, that was simple extrapolation of actions he took in the revolutionary war. The indians in the area had been attacking his soldiers in an alliance with the british and so he ordered that their homes be attacked. He didn't attempt to refrain from killing civilians. It worked. The indians in the area were no longer problematic.

That wasn't imposing politics, that was simple extrapolation of actions he took in the revolutionary war. The indians in the area had been attacking his soldiers in an alliance with the british and so he ordered that their homes be attacked. He didn't attempt to refrain from killing civilians. It worked. The indians in the area were no longer problematic.
Fair enough...but there it was him being attacked at home - chances are that he would not have engaged in wars overseas (which in turn would result in the US not being attacked in 9/11).

The women wearing pants'd probably leave him confused.


I'd say the men not wearing tights would be even more confusing for him

washington would be amazed with the technology we have today- i am a relative of washington, he was my great-great-great-great uncle on my mother's side

i am a relative of washington, he was my great-great-great-great uncle on my mother's side
Prove it.

washington would be amazed with the technology we have today- i am a relative of washington, he was my great-great-great-great uncle on my mother's side

Hmm, I smell bullshit, maybe not, though

Well, I think in the long run, after much yelling and name calling, he would eventually learn "Maybe the new black people aren't so bad". After that though, he would scream at the top of his lungs when he learns what the government has done to its own people, at which time he would scream (he seems like the kind of person who liked screaming) "Civil war!!1!111!!!!!!1" really loudly and lose the war because he demanded everyone stand in block formations and use muskets.

He'd do what anyone who woke up after being dead for two hundred plus years would do... have a heart attack and die again. If he didn't, he'd be mighty pissed off at the US government in general and the Depts of State, Homeland Security (Bill of Rights? What Bill of Rights?) and Defence. He'd also never run for President, or be allowed to. He's already served two terms.

And let's not forget that the founding fathers were pretty much all masons, and whilst church goers wouldn't be caught dead in the middle of some of the political rethoric of the GOP thats flung about DC these days. I'd say that would piss him off the most, no seperation of church and state, or rather the Republicans attempts at it

Prove it.

;)

It would be easy to prove as Washington's line is rather well documented :)

Fair enough...but there it was him being attacked at home - chances are that he would not have engaged in wars overseas (which in turn would result in the US not being attacked in 9/11).
Have you even listened to the stuff Osama and all the other wahhabiists are spouting? They've made it abundantly clear that our foreign policy only adds insult to the very injury of our existence. This was a problem then, or did you think the Treaty(read extortion) of Tripoli was about milk and cookies.

Have you even listened to the stuff Osama and all the other wahhabiists are spouting? They've made it abundantly clear that our foreign policy only adds insult to the very injury of our existence. This was a problem then, or did you think the Treaty(read extortion) of Tripoli was about milk and cookies.
Regardless of what they say...if the US had been isolationist, and never got involved with the world in any other way than to trade occasionally (which would probably have been what Washington had done), then the Arab world wouldn't actually know much about America - and therefore not be able to project their hatred at it.
It's just a matter of if they don't know you, they can't hate you.

I just thought of one thing.

He would be pissed as he would probably have to sue to get his home back. ;)

'

I just thought of one thing.

He would be pissed as he would probably have to sue to get his home back. ;)

'


Could he sue the US government? Hell, screw a lawsuit, he'd just lead an army of minutemen in there and take it back.