NationStates Jolt Archive

Cory Maye is a black man currently on death row in Mississippi for the murder of a white police officer who happened to be the son of the local chief of police. No one disputes that Maye killed the officer, though there is quite a bit of argument about whether Maye had the right to do so. See, the story is bit sketchy. It seems a confidential informant (who has now disappeared) accused Maye's neighbor of stockpiling large amounts of marijuana. The informant might or might not have said that there was marijuana in Maye's apartment, but no one really knows because he has disappeared. The informant certainly didn't know Maye's name, as the warrant for his home (which is shady in itself) didn't contain Maye's name.

Police claim they announced themselves when they kicked in the door, but witnesses and Maye say they didn't. The first man into Maye's home wasn't even in uniform. When Maye saw a stranger coming into his room towards his daughter, after his door had been kicked in, he shot the man. Turned out it was the white police chief's son. Then, when the police announced themselves, he threw his weapon out the door and surrendered. Now he is on death row.

Oh, and no marijuana was found in Maye's home. Well, at least not during the raid. A few days later police searched his house again and found less than two grams of marijuana. For which he was never charged.

All of the information regarding the case (including PDFs of the trial transcripts and warrants) can be found here http://www.theagitator.com/archives/cat_cory_maye.php

So, beyond just trying to spread the word and help bring national (international?) attention to the case, I'd like to ask a more broad policy question to the board. In light of case after case of drug raids turning deadly for both civilians and police, is this war on drugs really worth it? Do drugs really cause so much harm to society that we are willing to absorb these little tragedies, these deaths and assaults on our civil liberties?

The war on drugs is really a war to keep them illegal. There is no real hope or desire to stop drug use. The staus quo is simply being maintained. Illegal drugs and their use are profitable. Decriminalizing them will mean a reduction in income for hundreds of different agencies and companies. 80% of our prison population are there on drug related crimes. Think of the loss of income for police and corrections officers.

As for Mr. Mayes, good luck and god bless. A black man up for killing a white cop in Mississippi... Damn. Well at least they haven't lynched him... yet.

He says-he says arguement. Really, you have to give the cops the benefit of the doubt and not trust some criminal. Also I wouldn't mind knowing who these "witnesses" are as they must have been in the house so they would have reason to lie. However the fact that the first officer in the door was in plain clothes is a stupid act on the cops and could suggest that Maye should have been charged with manslaughter instead. Mississippi, black man and white cop though right? More information is needed to really understand what happened.

As for the war on drugs, the illegality of marijuana is a questionable policy but other drugs should be illegal as no one in their right mind should want that poison in this country. What we need is to change strategies and to get serious about this "war" and actually try to do some damage.

Really, you have to give the cops the benefit of the doubt

no. never give agents of the state the benefit of the doubt.

never.

He says-he says arguement. Really, you have to give the cops the benefit of the doubt and not trust some criminal. My father was a cop, Cops hung out a t my house. I learned something real early. Cops are people. They lie, scheme, bullshit, and make mistakes like every other group of people. There is one thing that sets them apart. They cover their asses like no one else.
You don't have to give the cops the benifit of the doubt, in fact our judicial system is set up so that doubt = innocence. You don't have to trust the other party either but you make a predjudical assumption by labeling him as "some criminal" when in fact there is no evidence of him having done anything wrong besides the questionable incident that can be argued a justifiable shooting.

My father was a cop, Cops hung out a t my house. I learned something real early. Cops are people. They lie, scheme, bullshit, and make mistakes like every other group of people. There is one thing that sets them apart. They cover their asses like no one else.
You don't have to give the cops the benifit of the doubt, in fact our judicial system is set up so that doubt = innocence. You don't have to trust the other party either but you make a predjudical assumption by labeling him as "some criminal" when in fact there is no evidence of him having done anything wrong besides the questionable incident that can be argued a justifiable shooting.

So you think the cops screwed up in this case and Maye had the right to shoot the guy? If the cops all went in the uniformed ones had to have been right behind so even if he wasn't in uniform he still should not have fired.

Seeing as how I've just been rereading To Kill a Mockingbird, I'll abstain...

That book was set 70 years ago. Things have changed a little don't you think?

So you think the cops screwed up in this case and Maye had the right to shoot the guy? If the cops all went in the uniformed ones had to have been right behind so even if he wasn't in uniform he still should not have fired.I wasn't there, I doubt the whole truth of the situation will ever be known beyond those who were. What I do have is doubt, and for conviction that doubt must be removed. I have a feeling that outside of Mississippi such a conviction for the count charged wouldn't have happened. But I have faith and hope that such things will be sorted out in the appeals process.

That book was set 70 years ago. Things have changed a little don't you think?
The point of the book transcends context. Anyway I deleted the comment, didn't really add anything...

That book was set 70 years ago. Things have changed a little don't you think?
You'd think so, wouldn't you. But then you look at what colour all the people on death row are, and you get a timely reminder...

You'd think so, wouldn't you. But then you look at what colour all the people on death row are, and you get a timely reminder...

Undeniable, the system is against people of color but to say that Mississippi is the same as it was in the 1930's is just ridiculous.

Undeniable, the system is against people of color but to say that Mississippi is the same as it was in the 1930's is just ridiculous.
Of course it's not completely the same, but some aspects are pretty close.

This man is send to death row, when a white man almost certainly wouldn't have.
He exercised the right to defend his home with lethal force, which is apparently protected by US law (as silly as that may sound to me).
And all about a ridiculous crime, the possession, or even production of weed.

This is the first time I hear about this case, but to be honest, it doesn't really surprise me - it's pretty much what I expect from the US death penalty system.

Well, if the U.S. claims to be such a civilised state how come they do still have the death penalty, granted they are some of the most conservative states that still have have it.

Well, if the U.S. claims to be such a civilized state how come they do still have the death penalty, granted they are some of the most conservative states that still have have it.
It all depends on your definition of "Civilized".

Cops are people. Some people are good, some are bad. Unless there was a recording, you'll have to rely EQUALLY on the testimony of officers and other witnesses at the scene. Personally, I think officers should be wired with a sound and video recorder at all times on duty. There is too much evidence that illegal actions ensue.

No, the war on drugs in general isn't worth it. If someone wants to take drugs, let 'em. If they do something stupid or hurtful while they are on drugs, they should face the same punishement as if they weren't. They are still responsible for themselves, regardless the condition in which they voluntarily place themselves.

It'll save billions of our tax dollars to just kill the war on drugs. Something of note--I don't partake of drugs myself (don't like not being able to use all my faculties), so this is fairly non-biased--at least from the drug point of view.

He says-he says arguement. Really, you have to give the cops the benefit of the doubt and not trust some criminal. Also I wouldn't mind knowing who these "witnesses" are as they must have been in the house so they would have reason to lie. However the fact that the first officer in the door was in plain clothes is a stupid act on the cops and could suggest that Maye should have been charged with manslaughter instead. Mississippi, black man and white cop though right? More information is needed to really understand what happened.

Actually, the only crime Cory Maye was ever charged with in his life was the murder of the officer. He had no criminal record, he wasn't "some criminal" he was a citizen. Even if you're willing to give the cops the benefit of the doubt, they have changed their stories, breeched policy, and done everything in their power to avoid giving a straight answer, they've lost their benefit. As for the wirnesses, they were neighbors. Only people in Maye's duplex were him and his daughter.

Honestly, is it that hard to read a story?

So you think the cops screwed up in this case and Maye had the right to shoot the guy? If the cops all went in the uniformed ones had to have been right behind so even if he wasn't in uniform he still should not have fired.


Again, read the story. Maye had time to shoot at the the officer three times and was disarmed by the time the uniformed police managed to see him, otherwise he would have been shot. Maye threw his gun down when he realized it wasn't a home invasion. Why else would he have fired on one cop and not the rest?

Undeniable, the system is against people of color but to say that Mississippi is the same as it was in the 1930's is just ridiculous.

Ever been there? Ever driven through the deep south with someone who wasn't white? Ever seen a sign in a 21st century window that says "****** don't let the sun set on your black ass in Jackson county?" Times haven't changed so much, theres fewer lynchings, the Klan doesn't go on it's night rides as often, but the feelings are the same.

This man is send to death row, when a white man almost certainly wouldn't have.
Mmmm, not that probable, actually, as the cop killed was either the current police chiefs son, or the son of a retired police chief(I'm unsure as to which). Replace him with a white guy and the same thing probably would have happened.

Hold on a second...when the cop in question was shot by Cory Maye, there should be bullet holes in the clothing he was wearing...therefore wouldn't that solve the whole debate over if he was in uniform or not? (his uniform should have bullet holes in it; if it doesn't then he was not in uniform). Unless some prick tamered w/the evidence, of course.

If this is true, he should only have been charged with Manslaughter

Cops are people. Some people are good, some are bad. Unless there was a recording, you'll have to rely EQUALLY on the testimony of officers and other witnesses at the scene. Personally, I think officers should be wired with a sound and video recorder at all times on duty. There is too much evidence that illegal actions ensue.

No, the war on drugs in general isn't worth it. If someone wants to take drugs, let 'em. If they do something stupid or hurtful while they are on drugs, they should face the same punishement as if they weren't. They are still responsible for themselves, regardless the condition in which they voluntarily place themselves.

It'll save billions of our tax dollars to just kill the war on drugs. Something of note--I don't partake of drugs myself (don't like not being able to use all my faculties), so this is fairly non-biased--at least from the drug point of view.
Legalization of drugs is advocated by men and women who have never had a daughter begin hanging out with druggies.

Well, if the U.S. claims to be such a civilised state how come they do still have the death penalty, granted they are some of the most conservative states that still have have it.
You want to know why we have the Death Penalty? Because of people like this:

http://cbs4boston.com/massachusettswire/MA--KidnapArrest-gn/resources_news_html

PLYMOUTH, Mass. (AP) A Framingham man allegedly kidnapped a woman and her 2-year-old son and took them to a Plymouth motel where investigators say he repeatedly raped the woman over two days while the child cowered nearby.

Evandro F. Doirado, 28, was arrested on Monday night after he took the woman to a liquor store and she silently mouthed ``help me'' and the name of the motel to a clerk, who called police as soon as they left the store, prosecutors said.

Doirado pleaded innocent on Tuesday to aggravated rape and kidnapping charges and was being held without bail. A hearing was scheduled for Friday, when prosecutors will seek to continue holding him with no bail for 60 days, Plymouth District Attorney Timothy Cruz said.

``We feel this is clearly not someone who should be released on bail,'' he said.

On Saturday night, Doirado stabbed a man in a botched drug deal, according to Framingham police, but the man was not seriously injured.

He then carjacked the 25-year-old mother and son while brandishing a 13-inch knife in the parking lot of a Wal-Mart in Framingham, investigators said.

``He didn't know her at all,'' Plymouth Police Capt. Michael Botieri said. ``He just grabbed her.''

He first took her to the parking lot of a nearby apartment complex, police said, and allegedly raped her there in the car with her child looking on. Investigators said he raped her again in Natick and forced her to withdraw money from an automated teller machine.

They then drove to Plymouth, arriving early Sunday morning at the beachside Pilgrim Sands Motel, where he allegedly raped the woman as the 2-year-old cowered by the bedside, according to Cruz, and repeatedly threatened to kill the child.

``This is an evil person,'' Cruz said. ``When you do something like that with a child in the room, there's no other explanation for that.''

They stayed at the motel for two days. On Monday night, the man took the woman to a nearby liquor store, but was turned away because neither had a license, Cruz said.

They returned a few hours later, and on the second visit, the woman mouthed the words, ``Help me. Help me. Pilgrim Sands,'' to the clerk, who immediately called police. Doirado, 28, was arrested as they pulled back into the motel on Monday night.

``As they pulled in, we were right there,'' Botieri said.

I'd personally have no fucking problem pulling the trigger.

http://news.bostonherald.com/localRegional/view.bg?articleid=118466

The police currently think he may be HIV+ but his lawyer is blocking any tests.

Hold on a second...when the cop in question was shot by Cory Maye, there should be bullet holes in the clothing he was wearing...therefore wouldn't that solve the whole debate over if he was in uniform or not? (his uniform should have bullet holes in it; if it doesn't then he was not in uniform). Unless some prick tamered w/the evidence, of course.

If this is true, he should only have been charged with Manslaughter

There is no debate, he wasn't in uniform, the prosecution stipulated that.

Legalization of drugs is advocated by men and women who have never had a daughter begin hanging out with druggies.

Nope, I have not--this is true--and it's a moot point.

I'm all about personal responsibility. If the person wants to poison their system, that's their business. How you handle relations with your daughter, that's your business--it still doesn't give you the right to tell the entire nation what they can or cannot do because of how you see your daughter or what she's going through.

While I do have sympathy for parents dealing with difficult issues with their family, running everyone else's lives is still not allowed--even by those going through pain and troubled times.

Legalization of drugs is advocated by men and women who have never had a daughter begin hanging out with druggies.
If drug legalisation was treated for currently illegal drugs the way it has been treated for now-legal drugs, it would already be not allowed for a hypothetical daughter of mine to take them, her being underage. If she was old enough to be allowed to, personally, I don't see where I would even get the right to control what my hypothetical daughter was doing, once she was an adult.

without knowing all the facts, I would say Manslaughter.

1) the officer killed was not in uniform.
2) They raided the wrong house
3) after they yelled "police" a second time, (a pro in my sight because after one officer was shot, the others were justified in gunning Mr. Maye down.) Cory did drop the gun and surrender.

without knowing all the facts, I would say Manslaughter.

1) the officer killed was not in uniform.
2) They raided the wrong house
3) after they yelled "police" a second time, (a pro in my sight because after one officer was shot, the others were justified in gunning Mr. Maye down.) Cory did drop the gun and surrender.


Manslaughter? I'd think it would be a case of justifiable homicide. I mean, someone comes into your home in the middle of the night, wakes you from sleep by kicking in your door, you're scared for yourself, you're scared for your child, you have a gun, they're coming, they seem aggressive. It is unfortunate that the person turned out to be a cop, but these are the dangers of fucking up a midnight raid. When a cop accidentally kills someone who turned out to not be a threat, all he has to do is show he reasonably believed the person posed a threat and he walks. Why should the standard be any different for a civilian?

The problem here is that every local podunk PD has it's own swat team thanks to federal grants. 10 years ago these officers would have staked out Maye's home and went in when they knew he wasn't there. No danger posed to anyone. Now, they have their body armor and battering rams, they have their full auto weapons, they want to play soldier. At least once a month, a story pops up of a uneccesarily violent drug raid, often on the wrong house. More frequent are the repeated instances of small town swat teams assembling for minor issues.

But, I guess they need to be ready...I mean you never know when some darky named Ackmed is gonna try to blow up the Museum of Livestock Husbandry and Progressive Bluegrass in Bumblefuck, Wyoming. It could happen tomarrow. Look...the alert is as Cyan, CYAN! Do you have any concept of what that means?! In the meantime, pay no attention to the abuses, the good will far outweigh the bad, just you wait and see...

Manslaughter? I'd think it would be a case of justifiable homicide. I mean, someone comes into your home in the middle of the night, wakes you from sleep by kicking in your door, you're scared for yourself, you're scared for your child, you have a gun, they're coming, they seem aggressive. It is unfortunate that the person turned out to be a cop, but these are the dangers of fucking up a midnight raid. When a cop accidentally kills someone who turned out to not be a threat, all he has to do is show he reasonably believed the person posed a threat and he walks. Why should the standard be any different for a civilian?

The problem here is that every local podunk PD has it's own swat team thanks to federal grants. 10 years ago these officers would have staked out Maye's home and went in when they knew he wasn't there. No danger posed to anyone. Now, they have their body armor and battering rams, they have their full auto weapons, they want to play soldier. At least once a month, a story pops up of a uneccesarily violent drug raid, often on the wrong house. More frequent are the repeated instances of small town swat teams assembling for minor issues.

But, I guess they need to be ready...I mean you never know when some darky named Ackmed is gonna try to blow up the Museum of Livestock Husbandry and Progressive Bluegrass in Bumblefuck, Wyoming. It could happen tomarrow. Look...the alert is as Cyan, CYAN! Do you have any concept of what that means?! In the meantime, pay no attention to the abuses, the good will far outweigh the bad, just you wait and see...Isn't Justifyable Homicide is still intent to kill.

he shot the man going for his daughter. (don't know if Self-Defense will work.) but you cannot prove he was shooting to kill. Wound maybe, stop definiately.

but as I said, without knowing all the facts. thus leaving some room for error for both parties.

now are you actually trying to turn this into another rant against the patriot act?

I hope not. there are threads for that on this board. this needn't be one of em.

Isn't Justifyable Homicide is still intent to kill.

he shot the man going for his daughter. (don't know if Self-Defense will work.) but you cannot prove he was shooting to kill. Wound maybe, stop definiately.

but as I said, without knowing all the facts. thus leaving some room for error for both parties.

now are you actually trying to turn this into another rant against the patriot act?

I hope not. there are threads for that on this board. this needn't be one of em.

Justifiable homicide is kind of a catchall. If someone dies and you caused it (intent or not) it is homicide, if you were justified in doing what you did, then it is justifiable homicide. Still, shooting at someone is shooting at someone, hard to argue that there wasn't an intent to kill.

As for PATRIOT Act, nope, not a rant about that, more a rant against the militarization of local (especially rural) police forces. It started before 9/11, terrorism fears helped it along, but it is a bigger issue than the PATRIOT act. The problem is with how the federal government distributes police dollars. 2.5 million is going to go alot further in a town with 3 cops and a population of 10,000 than it is a major city. Jurisdictions are given this money and told that if they don't spend it by the end of the fiscal year, they lose it. As a result, you see towns that have never had a murder in their recorded history with a SWAT team. Of course they'll want to use it, otherwise whats the point of having it? That leads to towns taking more risks, bringing bigger guns, and generally being pretty irresponsible. The Cory Maye case is one example of this trend in action. I mentioned small towns being afraid of terrorism because that tends to be the justification (these days) for giving them huge amounts of extra police funding and military equipment.

Ever been there? Ever driven through the deep south with someone who wasn't white? Ever seen a sign in a 21st century window that says "****** don't let the sun set on your black ass in Jackson county?" Times haven't changed so much, theres fewer lynchings, the Klan doesn't go on it's night rides as often, but the feelings are the same.

I don't like crossing the Ohio River never mind the Deep South. Having never been there I can't say first hand but I simply can not believe things remained unchanged. There are always racist bastards who don't want to act human but they are not the norm.