NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www.swissinfo.org/sen/swissinfo.html?siteSect=143&sid=6344756&cKey=1135524920000
BELGRADE (Reuters) - A Serbian police expert said decisive surrender talks were under way between Serb authorities and top war crimes fugitive general Ratko Mladic, Montenegrin news agency Mina reported on Sunday.

Former Belgrade police chief Marko Nicovic said it was certain the wartime Bosnian Serb military leader was driving a hard bargain and insisting on financial security for his helpers and family and amnesty for those who sheltered him.

No one in the government was available for comment.
It's about bloody time.

I wonder whether the recent begun trial of war criminals over this video in Serbia's had something to do with it. Apparently many Serbs still consider Mladic and his ilk heroes in the glorious war against all sorts of evildoers (and their children), and this trial was AFAIK the first time people were actually confronted with what really happened.

So perhaps Mladic lost his last leg to stand on.

Thoughts? Are there any Serbs, Albanians, Croations, Bosnians or anyone else particularly involved on NS?

Bump

Still negotiating:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/upi/?feed=TopNews&article=UPI-1-20051226-11112600-bc-serbia-mladic.xml

Oh bloody hell. Everyone cared about Saddam. :headbang:

They can read his last name and be reasonably sure how to pronounce it.

That's all I got.

Oh bloody hell. Everyone cared about Saddam. :headbang:

yes, but that was because jesus told the president to smite him and the news dutifully hosted a round-the-clock special on it.


i should talk to my friend from croatia to hear what she has to say. other than the fact that the guy is a bastard, of course.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ratko_Mladic
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Srebrenica_massacre
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/1423551.stm
http://www.interpol.int/Public/Data/Wanted/Notices/Data/1995/54/1995_47754.asp

That should do it...I hope. Suffice to say that he is one of the worst war criminals of modern times.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ratko_Mladic
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Srebrenica_massacre
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/1423551.stm
http://www.interpol.int/Public/Data/Wanted/Notices/Data/1995/54/1995_47754.asp

That should do it...I hope. Suffice to say that he is one of the worst war criminals of modern times.Thanks for the history lesson, but it was unnecessary. I remember just fine, it was only 10 years ago. How can you forget something like that or a name like Ratko?

But until he actually is in custody and there is some indication he might actually have to pay for his crimes I didn't see anything worth commenting about.

Thanks for the history lesson, but it was unnecessary. I remember just fine, it was only 10 years ago. How can you forget something like that or a name like Ratko?
Yeah, I'd have thought that people knew, but after two full days and no responses, I started to wonder whether people (read: Americans) actually remembered the name.

But until he actually is in custody and there is some indication he might actually have to pay for his crimes I didn't see anything worth commenting about.
True, I guess. We'll see, apparently the government keeps denying that they're negotiating.
Which of course brings up the question of how to treat Serbia, which still has so many people who flat-out deny what happened, consider war criminals heroes and where it is politically impossible to do anything about ending the war for good (and letting Kosovo go).

Yeah, I'd have thought that people knew, but after two full days and no responses, I started to wonder whether people (read: Americans) actually remembered the name.You're sadly right about most Americans. Most of 'em would have said "Who?" even back when it all was happening. Death and atrocities in places like Croatia and Rwanda mean nothing to them, they have no vested intrest in such places. Unless some politician and their spin machine whip up public outcry for ulterior reasons they'll happy sit on their sofa, drink their Budweiser and be content in their ignorance.


The US motto should be "Fat, Dumb and Happy, unless you tell me not to be."

You're sadly right about most Americans. Most of 'em would have said "Who?" even back when it all was happening. Death and atrocities in places like Croatia and Rwanda mean nothing to them, they have no vested intrest in such places. Unless some politician and their spin machine whip up public outcry for ulterior reasons they'll happy sit on their sofa, drink their Budweiser and be content in their ignorance.


The US motto should be "Fat, Dumb and Happy, unless you tell me not to be."

Why should America be bothered? Isn't everyone telling America and Americans to stay out of their business?

MAKE UP YOUR MIND, WORLD!!!

Why should America be bothered? Isn't everyone telling America and Americans to stay out of their business?

MAKE UP YOUR MIND, WORLD!!!Do actually buy into that shit. Do you give any thought to what your saying. Croatia and Rwanda were in the mid 90's. We did "stay out of their business" even when that business was genocide. But suddenly in 2003 we have to invade an oil rich nation that, although ruled by a despot, when compared to what was happening a decade earlier elsewhere, was a peaceful nation minding it's own business.

It's hypocricy. The world is full of despots and atrocities, how come we only intervene when there's a buck to be made?

MAKE UP YOUR MIND, WORLD!!!
It's made up its mind a long time ago.
It's just that you don't seem to be making out the difference between intervention for the good of the people on the ground and the global community, and intervention for the good of your own country.

Going into Kosovo was okay, precisely because there was no pressing US interest there.
Going into Afghanistan was okay because it was a decision made together with the rest of the world, well reasoned and to the benefit of the population.
Going into Latin America was not okay, because it was strictly done for spurious US interests regarding some sort of War on Communism.
And Iraq, well, it's been established that if you weigh up goods vs bads, you'd get something that would probably end up on the bad side.

The role of the US is not to be the global hegemon, imposing its interests on the world. The role of the US is to be the most powerful player in an alliance of nations committed to making the world a better place.

Do actually buy into that shit. Do you give any thought to what your saying. Croatia and Rwanda were in the mid 90's. We did "stay out of their business" even when that business was genocide. But suddenly in 2003 we have to invade an oil rich nation that, although ruled by a despot, when compared to what was happening a decade earlier elsewhere, was a peaceful nation minding it's own business.

It's hypocricy. The world is full of despots and atrocities, how come we only intervene when there's a buck to be made?

You're damn straight I agree with that! We should not have gone into Iraq, just like we didn't go into Rwanda. It's not our problem.

It's not our problem.
There is a responsibility associated with being a hyper-power in the modern age.
And one could even argue that if it hadn't been for the rest of the world, the US could never have been as rich and powerful as it is today - which could mean that you still have to pay something back to history which was so kind to you. But that is a somewhat abstract idea, not for everyone.

There is a responsibility associated with being a hyper-power in the modern age.
And one could even argue that if it hadn't been for the rest of the world, the US could never have been as rich and powerful as it is today - which could mean that you still have to pay something back to history which was so kind to you. But that is a somewhat abstract idea, not for everyone.

I do not believe that any one nation has a responsibility to any collection of nations. A nation, in the governmental sense, should exist only to serve it's people. Invading any nation that has not attacked the nation is not in the best interests of the people.

You're sadly right about most Americans. Most of 'em would have said "Who?" even back when it all was happening. Death and atrocities in places like Croatia and Rwanda mean nothing to them, they have no vested intrest in such places. Unless some politician and their spin machine whip up public outcry for ulterior reasons they'll happy sit on their sofa, drink their Budweiser and be content in their ignorance.

The US motto should be "Fat, Dumb and Happy, unless you tell me not to be."
This is a totally inaccurate representation, and I find it insulting, denigrating and slanderous. I expect a retraction and an apology.

I remember all of this quite well, thank you very much. If you want to rail against someone, rail against the UN, which sat on its hands during the entire Srebrenitsa affair. Or the French commander. Or the UN forces involved, together with their country of origin.

This knee-jerk blame-placing on America on here is largely responsible for the reactions in kind about which so many get upset ( terms like "Cheese-eating Surrender Monkeys" spring to mind ). Don't expect Americans to have any respect for you or your country after making statements like this.

Do actually buy into that shit. Do you give any thought to what your saying. Croatia and Rwanda were in the mid 90's. We did "stay out of their business" even when that business was genocide. But suddenly in 2003 we have to invade an oil rich nation that, although ruled by a despot, when compared to what was happening a decade earlier elsewhere, was a peaceful nation minding it's own business.

It's hypocricy. The world is full of despots and atrocities, how come we only intervene when there's a buck to be made?
You are truly seriously challenged by logic, aren't you.

Where, pray tell, has the US "made a buck" from the war in Iraq? I trully want to know. Please enlighten me.

Yeah, I'd have thought that people knew, but after two full days and no responses, I started to wonder whether people (read: Americans) actually remembered the name.

Funny...two full days, and no responses...

...of course that means that Americans are stupid, ignorant fucks, who could hardly give a shit about what happens in the next state, much less what happens in Durkadurkastan.

Never mind that there were plenty of people from other nations who failed to respond to your topic...of course, none of them are forgetful of world events or willfully ignorant of current affairs...

...nope.

It's just the Americans who are dumb.

:rolleyes:

I held you in rather high regard Neu Leonstein...high enough that I hardly expected you to make this kind of sweeping generalization.

I guess I was wrong.

You are truly seriously challenged by logic, aren't you.

Where, pray tell, has the US "made a buck" from the war in Iraq? I trully want to know. Please enlighten me.

Follow the dollar.

All the money spent on going to war with Iraq doesn't just disappear into nothing. Lockheed-Martin, Boeing, Raytheon and yes, Halliburton - all make a nice profit out of war. These profits contribute to the continued growth of the US economy. Just because the government isn't making money out of it directly doesn't exclude the nation as a whole from doing so.

Follow the dollar.

All the money spent on going to war with Iraq doesn't just disappear into nothing. Lockheed-Martin, Boeing, Raytheon and yes, Halliburton - all make a nice profit out of war. These profits contribute to the continued growth of the US economy. Just because the government isn't making money out of it directly doesn't exclude the nation as a whole from doing so.
Yeah. All those evil companies wanting to make a profit! They should be willing to just offer their services for nothing. Riiiight!

At least the US wasn't pirating money from the Food for Oil program like certain European nations I could mention, but won't because I don't want to be deleated. :headbang:

Well, this has deteriorated rather quickly. Anyone up for a massacre yet? :p

Funny...two full days, and no responses...
...of course that means that Americans are stupid, ignorant fucks, who could hardly give a shit about what happens in the next state, much less what happens in Durkadurkastan.
No, that's not what I meant. It may have been an inaccurate assumption, but it must be said that due to the time zone I find myself in, and the times I made and bumped the thread, the majority of potential respondents would have been in the US time zones.
That being said, I found that the war in Kosovo was very close to home for Europeans, and that they generally followed closely to what happened. There are many news headlines regarding Karadcic and Mladic in German news sources, and fewer on the few US sites that I visit (primarily CNN and occasionally Fox, just to see their slant on things).
Put all those together (and remembering that all I said was that they may have forgotten the name "Mladic"), I don't think what I said was that bad.

Never mind that there were plenty of people from other nations who failed to respond to your topic...of course, none of them are forgetful of world events or willfully ignorant of current affairs...
I didn't say that either, and I'm sorry if it sounded like I implied it. As I said, with the time zones in which I posted it, I assumed that it would be primarily Americans who'd respond, but of course others didn't remember the day either.
I'm sorry.

I held you in rather high regard Neu Leonstein...high enough that I hardly expected you to make this kind of sweeping generalization.
People find that I am human too, and as such subject to the same sort of rationalising, stereotyping and any other behaviour.
I was under the impression that a thread concerning war stories from Iraq will immediately spawn pages of congratulating replies, while a report that we might be about to get our hands on one of the worst criminals in Europe isn't worth a response, by anyone. Put it down to me being emo, but I was disappointed.

At least the US wasn't pirating money from the Food for Oil program like certain European nations I could mention, but won't because I don't want to be deleated. :headbang:
You'd get deleted for posting that French officials apparently took bribes?
It's proven, and the officials got punished (not harshly enough IMHO).
Everything else was companies, not governments that were misusing the program - which all in all was a pretty complete failure.

Is this about the US now?

Somebody, I don't remember who, posted on NS that, whenever he/she hears mention of "Islamic radicalism" in Bosnia, he/she feels like Milosevic was right about something. The way I see it, this is the perfect lie in retrospect: Conservatives were against US presence in Bosnia, and now they are fighting a "War on Terror".

In fact, Ratko Mladic himself claimed to be helping the civilized world ig getting rid of Islamic activists. This not my sophistry (poisoning the well or whatever), it's just that nobody has ever been, to my knowledge, in a position were one could prove that he was right. And nobody antwhere could/should take the same course of action, no matter what their beliefs are.

No, that's not what I meant. It may have been an inaccurate assumption, but it must be said that due to the time zone I find myself in, and the times I made and bumped the thread, the majority of potential respondents would have been in the US time zones.

Fair enough, but unless you're expecting us to work out the time difference ourselves, such facts should probably be stated...otherwise you get a misunderstanding, such as the one I just made.

That being said, I found that the war in Kosovo was very close to home for Europeans, and that they generally followed closely to what happened. There are many news headlines regarding Karadcic and Mladic in German news sources, and fewer on the few US sites that I visit (primarily CNN and occasionally Fox, just to see their slant on things).
Put all those together (and remembering that all I said was that they may have forgotten the name "Mladic"), I don't think what I said was that bad.

It wasn't...at least not when one remembers the fact that your time-zone and post-times led you to expect responses from Americans.

And to be fair, you're right...most Americans probably don't remember the name.

I, for one, did not...although to be fair, I was only 12 year old when the massacre happened, and at the time had little interest in world affairs.

I didn't say that either, and I'm sorry if it sounded like I implied it. As I said, with the time zones in which I posted it, I assumed that it would be primarily Americans who'd respond, but of course others didn't remember the day either. I'm sorry.

To me, at least, it seemed implied. That's OK though, I don't always count. :p

An apology is not needed, but it is accepted, at least by me. No harm, no foul. :)

People find that I am human too, and as such subject to the same sort of rationalising, stereotyping and any other behaviour. I was under the impression that a thread concerning war stories from Iraq will immediately spawn pages of congratulating replies, while a report that we might be about to get our hands on one of the worst criminals in Europe isn't worth a response, by anyone. Put it down to me being emo, but I was disappointed.

I can imagine you would be. Reading up on the massacre, I can agree...I would have thought there would be a larger reaction, at least from European posters.

Meh...I think the Holiday season has us all a little out of whack. :p

You'd get deleted for posting that French officials apparently took bribes?
Hell, I'm apprehensive about even saying things like "frack!" The mods are gunning for me! [ looks around suspiciously ]

<_<

>_>

Yeah. All those evil companies wanting to make a profit! They should be willing to just offer their services for nothing. Riiiight!

At least the US wasn't pirating money from the Food for Oil program like certain European nations I could mention, but won't because I don't want to be deleated. :headbang:

Oh, quit it. You should know better than to act like that.

You asked where the US was making a profit out of it and I told you. Then you go off and do your "ALL THOSE EVIL COMPANIES WANTING TO MAKE A PROFIT" rant. My views on the issue in question have nothing to do with it. You asked; and I told. If the answer wasn't satisfactory, perhaps you would like to attempt to demonstrate that it was incorrect?

THEN you go and raise Food for Oil; which is irrelevant anyway, considering that I hold the governments involved there in pretty low regard to begin with.

Thoughts? Are there any Serbs, Albanians, Croations, Bosnians or anyone else particularly involved on NS?
I am a serbo-croatian from northern Bosnia (Kozara, a Krajisnik) and all I have to say about this is: Meh. I think it's for the better for all of us serbs (although I'm like 50% croatian as well) for him to give up. We have suffered enough for one man (well, two if you count Karadzic)

I am very well aware of the Srebrenica massacre and what happened there and I wouldn't want it to happen to anyone I am just thankful that he kept my relatives alive through his military efforts, that's all.