NationStates Jolt Archive

To throw a few extra coals (or Yule logs) on the "war on Christmas"fire ;)

Many people wil know the joke "dyslexic devil worshippers sell their soul to santa".
But is there not some truth to this ? Lets take a closer look:

- Santa uses "Christmas magic". As we know from the controversy surrounding the Harry Potter books magic = evil.
- Santa employs elves. Elves are soulless creatures; not to mention that despite the Tolkien franchise your average mythology elf is a child stealing monster.
- Santa's *name* is based on Saint Nicholas, bishop of Myra. The *character* Santa Clause - the man flying a reindeer pulled sleigh - is in fact based on a Norse god.

Are the children singing songs for him therefor not violating the 1st commandment ?

So.. why is the Vatican not protesting against him ? Where are the angry mobs with pitchforks ?

From an existentialist prespective, I'd say so. :P

Santa is fake and fools little kids into being happy by brightening their worlds with "magic". He also sells products and boosts the economy while encouraging good behavior. At the same time he pushes no creedo onto his followers besides the general term "be good"

Doesn't sound evil to me.


Jesus on the otherhand, well just look at how angry he makes some people regarding "the war on christmas". No one ever killed someone for the fictional character Santa. I can't say the same for another fictional character I've heard of.

<snip>
I can't say the same for another fictional character I've heard of.
if you're referring to yeshua ha'nozri, you are mistaken. he most likely did exist, just not in the way that he is portrayed by the christians

if you're referring to yeshua ha'nozri, you are mistaken. he most likely did exist, just not in the way that he is portrayed by the christians

"fictional character" = not a real person.

"he most likely did exist, just not in the way that he is portrayed by the christians" = a fictional character portrayed by the christians

If Jesus did exist but he had nothing to do with God then he clearly is not the same Jesus that is portrayed in Christianity.

You basically just said "Look at me I know the real name of the dude who was cruxified by Pilate!! He is not who you are talking about at all and I know that but you are wrong because the man I am talking about exists."

...wow, don't care.

To throw a few extra coals (or Yule logs) on the "war on Christmas"fire ;)

Many people wil know the joke "dyslexic devil worshippers sell their soul to santa".
But is there not some truth to this ? Lets take a closer look:

- Santa uses "Christmas magic". As we know from the controversy surrounding the Harry Potter books magic = evil.
- Santa employs elves. Elves are soulless creatures; not to mention that despite the Tolkien franchise your average mythology elf is a child stealing monster.
- Santa's *name* is based on Saint Nicholas, bishop of Myra. The *character* Santa Clause - the man flying a reindeer pulled sleigh - is in fact based on a Norse god.

Are the children singing songs for him therefor not violating the 1st commandment ?

So.. why is the Vatican not protesting against him ? Where are the angry mobs with pitchforks ?

He *IS* evil, he supports capitalism! :p

"fictional character" = not a real person.

"he most likely did exist, just not in the way that he is portrayed by the christians" = a fictional character portrayed by the christians

If Jesus did exist but he had nothing to do with God then he clearly is not the same Jesus that is portrayed in Christianity.

You basically just said "Look at me I know the real name of the dude who was cruxified by Pilate!! He is not who you are talking about at all and I know that but you are wrong because the man I am talking about exists."

...wow, don't care.
i just personally, don't like using the name jesus, that's why i call him what i do.
and i meant that there is significant evidence of a man with that name around that time going around saying many things similar to what he said, but not performing his supposed miracles. much of what is thought about him may be true, just is heavily embelished upon.

He *IS* evil, he supports capitalism! :p
but being a norse god would make him cool, everyone loves flying around carrying a magic hammer
it far outweighs being a capitalist supporter

- Santa's *name* is based on Saint Nicholas, bishop of Myra. The *character* Santa Clause - the man flying a reindeer pulled sleigh - is in fact based on a Norse god
We all know that Santa is just an anagram for SATAN! :eek:

Oh, and Santa has an Orwellian complex.
He knows when you are sleeping, he knows when you're awake. he knows when you've been good or bad so be good for goodness's sake
Invasion of privacy much?

Evil! Who didn't loose faith in thier parents and the words of other souces of authority (e.g. the bible), when they realised Santa wasn't real?

"Is Santa evil?"

Nahh! Just bad. After all, why would he want to know where all the "naughty girls" are? :D

"Is Santa evil?"

Nahh! Just bad. After all, why would he want to know where all the "naughty girls" are? :D

I can think of a couple of reasons.

Anywho:

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b383/DrkHelmet/santa-splat.jpg

Have a nice day.

They both wear red and you never see them together at the same time....

*rubs chin thoughtfully*

Santa is clearly evil! he doesnt give all children presents! how cruel! :confused:

They both wear red and you never see them together at the same time....

*rubs chin thoughtfully*
Um ... WHO does??? :confused:

He *IS* evil, he supports capitalism! :p

The only way people 'earn' their presents is by being what he considers good. Using influence to modify people's behaviour. Taking the elves labour and redistributing it to those who don't work. That's socialism all the way.

So, yes, he is evil.

Um ... WHO does??? :confused:
Santa and Satan.

Well let's break this down a bit....

- Santa uses "Christmas magic". As we know from the controversy surrounding the Harry Potter books magic = evil.

But is magic really evil? It has been stated from several sources (although I've not seen this particular argument here...yet) that while Morningstar (original name of Satan, feel free to substitute name of choice) could twist, manipulate and adapt anything, he could not create. Therefore, either magic doesn't exsist because he could not create it, or it does exsist because God made it. And if God made it and since God cannot make anything evil, therefore magic must either be good or, like any other tool, neither one.

- Santa employs elves. Elves are soulless creatures; not to mention that despite the Tolkien franchise your average mythology elf is a child stealing monster.

What is the basis of Elves being a soulless creature? They myths surrounding the varity of creatures that have aquired the english name of "Elf" are wide and varied. The Celtic Shide (pronounced "Shee") were typically tall, thin and fair. Elves of the germanic orgins were short little things that tended to pull off mischief. Other mythological sources would have elves bound to certin trees similar to Dryads. I believe there were even some oriential cretures that have aquired the label of "elf" in translation[/QUOTE]

- Santa's *name* is based on Saint Nicholas, bishop of Myra. The *character* Santa Clause - the man flying a reindeer pulled sleigh - is in fact based on a Norse god.

Can't argue much on this one, although some neat things came up on TV while typing this. St. Nicholas was of Turkish origin. The name "Santa Claus" is derived from the Dutch "Sinter Kauss" (spelling may be off, doing that from hearing) refering to St Nicholas. Just some FYI.

Are the children singing songs for him therefor not violating the 1st commandment ?

Is singing patriotic songs about one's country a violation of the 1st commandment? Song do not necessarily equate to worship

But is magic really evil? It has been stated from several sources (although I've not seen this particular argument here...yet) that while Morningstar (original name of Satan, feel free to substitute name of choice) could twist, manipulate and adapt anything, he could not create. Therefore, either magic doesn't exsist because he could not create it, or it does exsist because God made it. And if God made it and since God cannot make anything evil, therefore magic must either be good or, like any other tool, neither one.

Then why the Harry Potter controversy ?

Can't argue much on this one, although some neat things came up on TV while typing this. St. Nicholas was of Turkish origin. The name "Santa Claus" is derived from the Dutch "Sinter Kauss" (spelling may be off, doing that from hearing) refering to St Nicholas. Just some FYI.

The correct spelling is "Sinterklaas", which is short for "Sint Nikolaas" which in turn is the dutch spelling of Saint Nicholas, once bishop of Myra and patron saint of a ridiculous amount of things - including children. He was quite well known for discreetly giving gifts to the poor; though most of what we know of him consists of myths.
He however was not "a jolly fat man", did not have a flying sleigh and definately did not live on the north pole. Except for the discreet dropping of presents and the colour red there is in fact no similarity.

Is singing patriotic songs about one's country a violation of the 1st commandment? Song do not necessarily equate to worship
True - but a country is not a person, and this specific person happens to be (based on) a god (Thor) himself. In my book doing what a god wants (being nice instead of naughty), hoping for his blessing (pressies) and honouring him with songs and small idols comes prety close to worship ;)

Then why the Harry Potter controversy ?

Because no matter how well you make a logical progression there are people who believe in something and that's that. "My mind is made up, don't try to confuse me with facts"

The correct spelling is "Sinterklaas", which is short for "Sint Nikolaas" which in turn is the dutch spelling of Saint Nicholas, once bishop of Myra and patron saint of a ridiculous amount of things - including children. He was quite well known for discreetly giving gifts to the poor; though most of what we know of him consists of myths.
He however was not "a jolly fat man", did not have a flying sleigh and definately did not live on the north pole. Except for the discreet dropping of presents and the colour red there is in fact no similarity.

Thanks you. Details I din't have handy. Although they did go further in to the history of Santa. It seems his waist line has been expanding slowly over the years (typical American ;) ) and that the modren iconic image is more based on a drawing by the same guy who gave us Uncle Sam.


[/QUOTE]True - but a country is not a person, and this specific person happens to be (based on) a god (Thor) himself. In my book doing what a god wants (being nice instead of naughty), hoping for his blessing (pressies) and honouring him with songs and small idols comes prety close to worship ;)[/QUOTE]

The traditional song "King Henry", and a whole slew of ballads about knights and other heros. Beowolf is a nordic "song" There is a whole metric butt ton of songs out there specifically directed at a single entity aside from Santa. Are they worshiping Frosty and Rudolph and Jack Frost too? What about all the songs to women; "Mandy" (Barry Manilow), "Valerie" (Monkiees), "Jenni"(Falco), etc ( I think I matched up the song titles and artist right, but feel free to correct.)

Nothing about the elf comment?

He *IS* evil, he supports capitalism! :p


Giving away toys that he made in a slave labor workshop sounds like a communist to me. He does like red.

Giving away toys that he made in a slave labor workshop sounds like a communist to me. He does like red.

Makes you wonder where he gets the raw materials to produce his goods though. Either:

A: The North Pole has an abundance of natural resources the likes humanity has never seen. Someone is going to invade it sooner or later then.

B: He has a "naughty/nice" list correct? That makes him probably an intelligence mastermind. He's probably got a gold list somewhere and sells little snippets to the CIA, FBI, FSB, Mossad, MI6 and just about anyone else for a fortune.

or

C: He's got the addresses of every kid on his list he has to visit right? I bet he sells them to mailing companies for targetted marketing. *Gasp* Santa is helping spam! He IS evil. :p

Is Satan evil, probably not - read Heinlein's J.O.B. - Satan is portrayed as a tolerant, broad-minded, rational being, God is a narrow-minded, selfish, bigot who wants all the toys - seems to work that way in the real world, too. As for Santa (Spanish for holy), I have only one question - why does he want all the kids to sit on his lap? Hmmm? They couldn't sit next to him, or stand in front of him? Why the physical contact? Could it be....? Santa is evil.

Santa knows when you are sleeping. He knows when you're awake. He sees everything. Obviously Santa is Big Brother. He likes children to sit on his lap.*cough*pedophile*cough*. He also breaks into peoples homes when they are sleeping.

The anagram of Santa = Satan, which is more proof than I'll ever need.

Trans-human']He also breaks into peoples homes when they are sleeping.
If we use that logic, then it follows that the tooth fairy is also evil...

If we use that logic, then it follows that the tooth fairy is also evil...
And the easter bunny :rolleyes:.

The tooth fairy and the Easter bunny are evil.:p

I could've told you that.

Anyone or anything that thinks giving little kids month-old, rock hard, chicken- shaped marshmallows is in any way cute or nice is automatically, at least in my book, textbook evil.

He *IS* evil, he supports capitalism! :p

Don't you know? Capitalism is the ultimate good?

The whole Norse God thing does make him way cooler... I wish he had a giant magic hammer that he used to crush the skulls of bad kids... It would make the whole thing way more terrifying for children..

Anyways. Christmas is just the christinized version of the birth of Mithras anyways, so I think throwing in a Norse god and comercializing it like crazy isn't that bad.

Trans-human']The tooth fairy and the Easter bunny are evil.:p

The Easter bunny died for our sins! He was a great prophet for the people of israel! Who can forget that verse from the bible when he stopped a crowd of people from pelting a harlot to death with colourful eggs with the maxim: "He without sin cast the first painted hard-boiled egg."

The Easter bunny is probably one of the defining aspects of christianity.

He is the Jolly Red Roof Lurker
http://www.commissionedcomic.com/index.php?date=2005-12-21

This topic is actually taken extremely serious by some it seems.. I just found this article ;)

http://www.av1611.org/othpubls/santa.html

In it the author argues that the American Santa Clause is not Saint Nicholas, but his dark servant black Pete - whom is generally agreed to be Satan.

Of course, it is intended as a parody. At least I hope so...

EDIT: oooh - another one !
http://www.biblebelievers.com/watkins_santa/santa.html

He is the Jolly Red Roof Lurker
http://www.commissionedcomic.com/index.php?date=2005-12-21

To qoute the Author

"Sure, he only wants your milk and cookies!

When you think about it, most holiday characters are pretty creepy.

Take the Easter Bunny, for instance. What's a gigantic rabbit doing with a bunch of eggs? I didn't know rabbits ate eggs, so I doubt he was planning to feed off them. Did he lay them? And to make matters worse; why is he hiding them? He paints them in bright colors, so he obviously wants us to find them. Are they some sort of nefarious bunny trap?

But the big mack-daddy of holiday eeriness is no other than the incredibly disturbing Santa Claus. Just imagine; a morbidly obese old guy that gives away presents to little children. He dresses all in red, with white fur. For some reason, he spends all year spying on people, stalking them. What twisted and perverted methods this man uses to watch his victims is beyond me, but at the end of the year, based upon his observations, he decides who – in his opinion – has been “good” and who has been “naughty”. He has a warehouse located in the North Pole, where he holds an entire community of vertically challenged people prisoner and makes them work without pay. I don't know what you think, but I believe it's called “slavery”.

He appears to have been around for an ungodly amount of time, and albeit being quite old he does not seem to age any further. We can only conclude that the so-called “Santa Claus” practices the dark art of Necromancy and is most likely to be a lich or something of the sort. He travels in a sleigh pulled by reindeer and he enchants them all so that they may fly (either that or he gets them real stoned), but this is nothing compared to the incredible magic Mr. Claus is capable of.

Apparently, Santa Claus is able to freeze time itself. When he does this, he goes and sneaks into people's houses and only the gods no what kind of unspeakable acts he performs right there, while the frozen people are helplessly unaware of what is happening. He then leaves a “present” for the little children and proceeds to the next house. I mean, seriously, this guy freaks me out. "

Ive never heard of Santa being based on Thor.

The only similarity is that Thor rides a chariot, pulled by two rams, and Santa rides a sliegh, pulled by reindeer.
Thats where any and all similarities end.


Santa "meaning saint", is a fat jolly old man who climbs down your chimney and leaves presents.

Thor, is the Norse god of Thunder, who carried Mjolnir, smote Frost Giants, and killed the Midgaard Serpent, at Ragnarok.

Santa = Nice, but kinda creepy old guy, who gives presents.

Thor = Turbulent, violent, viking warrior god, who reigned destruction down on the enemies of the Einherar.

Im thinking Thor is way cooler.

The only similarity is that Thor rides a chariot, pulled by two rams, and Santa rides a sliegh, pulled by reindeer.

In addition there are the looks of the two: bearded jolly man in red and white with large belt. Thor is also one of the two main gods honoured at Yule (the other being Frey; god of fertility and joy (and large penisses)). Both of them worked closely with elves. Thor had his domicile "somewhere up north". And he wasn't above mixing with the common men, rewarding those who had been good.

Ive never heard of Santa being based on Thor.

The only similarity is that Thor rides a chariot, pulled by two rams, and Santa rides a sliegh, pulled by reindeer.
Thats where any and all similarities end.


Santa "meaning saint", is a fat jolly old man who climbs down your chimney and leaves presents.

Thor, is the Norse god of Thunder, who carried Mjolnir, smote Frost Giants, and killed the Midgaard Serpent, at Ragnarok.

Santa = Nice, but kinda creepy old guy, who gives presents.

Thor = Turbulent, violent, viking warrior god, who reigned destruction down on the enemies of the Einherar.

Im thinking Thor is way cooler.

Aaaah, but what does Santa do the other 364 days? He puts down that sack and swings a hammer instead. ;)

I hear he beats up little elves

The anagram of Santa = Satan, which is more proof than I'll ever need.

So, does that mean that, since santa is Spanish for holy, Satan is holy?

but being a norse god would make him cool, everyone loves flying around carrying a magic hammer
it far outweighs being a capitalist supporter

I hate Norse mythology. *Burns another efigy of Richard Wagner.*

santas evil, that evil lying bastard. fukin hell people dont half talk about shit

He's a fat old guy who breaks into your house and leaves presents. Sounds like a stalker or something. What does Santa do the other 364 days of the year anyway? Creepy really.

Santa probably has warrants out for violating so many laws of physics.

Whoever said that Dec 25 is actually the date of Mithras' birth was mistaken. Its actually Sol Invictus. The early Christians actually put a lot of their holidays on old Pagan holidays so that the pagans would convert and so that those who were a member of both could only be one.

Now onto the fact that Santa is really just useing the Patriot Act and is probablly helping the government root out terrorists who cares that he invades your privacy?:p

Well let's break this down a bit....



But is magic really evil? It has been stated from several sources (although I've not seen this particular argument here...yet) that while Morningstar (original name of Satan, feel free to substitute name of choice) could twist, manipulate and adapt anything, he could not create. Therefore, either magic doesn't exsist because he could not create it, or it does exsist because God made it. And if God made it and since God cannot make anything evil, therefore magic must either be good or, like any other tool, neither one.



What is the basis of Elves being a soulless creature? They myths surrounding the varity of creatures that have aquired the english name of "Elf" are wide and varied. The Celtic Shide (pronounced "Shee") were typically tall, thin and fair. Elves of the germanic orgins were short little things that tended to pull off mischief. Other mythological sources would have elves bound to certin trees similar to Dryads. I believe there were even some oriential cretures that have aquired the label of "elf" in translation



Can't argue much on this one, although some neat things came up on TV while typing this. St. Nicholas was of Turkish origin. The name "Santa Claus" is derived from the Dutch "Sinter Kauss" (spelling may be off, doing that from hearing) refering to St Nicholas. Just some FYI.



Is singing patriotic songs about one's country a violation of the 1st commandment? Song do not necessarily equate to worship[/QUOTE]
About the elves, I'm pretty sure that it says in the old testament something like "and God created souless companions for Adam" (non-humans, thus all non humans are souless, at least according to the Bible

OK let's get some details straight here:

"Santa" is not spanish for "holy"...it's Spanish (along with some other Romantic languages) for "Saint". Yes there is a diffrence. Saint is a title bestowed on someone who is holy (in theroy at least), but so is Pope, Cardinal, Bishop, etc.

Christmas is NOT a Christianized version of Mithras' birth. It is a celebration of Jesus' birth. It WAS purposefully placed by the early church to compete and hopefully overcome other pagan holidays that centered around the Solstice.

Santa has not always had that girth, that's a recent (historically speaking) development. Put the man on Curves or Jenny Craig for goodness sake!

And where's the proof that he doesn't pay his workers? I mean just because you don't have access to their bank accounts doesn't mean anything. They probably have their own currency system up there and all




***only the first two paragraphs are intended to have any seriousness in them***

About the elves, I'm pretty sure that it says in the old testament something like "and God created souless companions for Adam" (non-humans, thus all non humans are souless, at least according to the Bible

Find me a referance. Adam (except for mention in some geneologies) is only in the book of Genesis. That should help narrow your search

OK let's get some details straight here:

"Santa" is not spanish for "holy"...it's Spanish (along with some other Romantic languages) for "Saint". Yes there is a diffrence. Saint is a title bestowed on someone who is holy (in theroy at least), but so is Pope, Cardinal, Bishop, etc.

Christmas is NOT a Christianized version of Mithras' birth. It is a celebration of Jesus' birth. It WAS purposefully placed by the early church to compete and hopefully overcome other pagan holidays that centered around the Solstice.

Santa has not always had that girth, that's a recent (historically speaking) development. Put the man on Curves or Jenny Craig for goodness sake!

And where's the proof that he doesn't pay his workers? I mean just because you don't have access to their bank accounts doesn't mean anything. They probably have their own currency system up there and all




***only the first two paragraphs are intended to have any seriousness in them***


Santa, like many words has more than one meaning. In place names, like Santa Cruz (Holy Cross), Santa Fe (Holy Fire), it means holy. In names of people it means saint which means holy or sanctified.