NationStates Jolt Archive

Read entire post before flaming

I just had this weird thought.

If we shut down all international travel, (Not just the U.S., I mean the entire world, many of the problems facing the world today would disappear.

No more war immeadietly springs to mind. There are others.

Other problems would only increase, despotic leaders, starvation, genocide.

Just to be clear, I don't actually support this idea, but I thought I would put it out there to say if anyone does.

If one day humanity abandoned all hatred based on Race, Creed, Sexual Orientation, and Gender we would find something else to hate about each other in five minutes, ten tops.

It's how we work.:(

If one day humanity abandoned all hatred based on Race, Creed, Sexual Orientation, and Gender we would find something else to hate about each other in five minutes, ten tops.

It's how we work.:(
You forgot Class and Wealth.

No, I thin it would just shift to internal warfare, and all of the other problems would still exist. Sometimes an end to international warfare is the least of our problems.

Read entire post before flaming

I just had this weird thought.

If we shut down all international travel, (Not just the U.S., I mean the entire world, many of the problems facing the world today would disappear.

No more war immeadietly springs to mind. There are others.

Other problems would only increase, despotic leaders, starvation, genocide.

Just to be clear, I don't actually support this idea, but I thought I would put it out there to say if anyone does.
Problem is, even if you mean just closing all borders, all entries to all countries, we could quite easily still have wars. ICBMs notwithstanding, we could just put artillery on the borders of countries (Syria and Israel immediately springs to mind) and quite easily conduct a war by shelling the buggery out of each other.
Other problems would just be magnified. With no way of other countries stopping him, what do you think Robert Mugabe's going to do? Or Kim Jong-Il?
Third world countries that pretty much rely on foreign aid and/or tourism are going to be completely screwed. Development in the third world would come to a standstill. In fact, development pretty much anywhere will stop, as you'd be stopping international trade.
I don't really think it would solve anything. Yes, America would do fine from it, but what about the Middle East? It'd take a few months to walk from (say) Saudi Arabia to (say) Israel, but terrorism would still be possible. War would still occur, and there are myriad other problems that would either be created or massively magnified.

The environment would benefit from the lack of travel... :)

You forgot Class and Wealth.


Ahhhh, that's right you two. Unleash your inner cynics.

Now, to refine the theory.

Let's say any means of anything passing the borders of the country where it originated is gone. The only exception being migratory animals.

World wars would be difficult so we'd probably revert to civil wars... :(

Ahhhh, that's right you two. Unleash your inner cynics.

Now, to refine the theory.

Let's say any means of anything passing the borders of the country where it originated is gone. The only exception being migratory animals.

You could infect those migratory animals with a deadly disease...

How would stopping travel stop war as well? Am I missing something here?

You could infect those migratory animals with a deadly disease...

See, I knew someone was going to say that. But as contagious diseases are almost all organic, and since they are not actually part of the migratory animal, they would be unable to pass. I will now again refine it as the exception being migratory animals, and organisms that exist in a symbotic relationship with them. Ha!

How would stopping travel stop war as well? Am I missing something here?

Sorry, should have made that clearer. it would stop international war. Civil wars would be just a leetle bit more tricky.

See, I knew someone was going to say that. But as contagious diseases are almost all organic, and since they are not actually part of the migratory animal, they would be unable to pass. I will now again refine it as the exception being migratory animals, and organisms that exist in a symbotic relationship with them. Ha!

I guess we're not allowed to strap any bombs to those migratory animals either?

Sorry, should have made that clearer. it would stop international war. Civil wars would be just a leetle bit more tricky.
So just because I can't travel to N. Korea doesn't mean I can't send them goodies via ICBM or pilotless long range robot bombers (already in the works as far as I know).

Just.

Plain.

Dumb.

See, I knew someone was going to say that. But as contagious diseases are almost all organic, and since they are not actually part of the migratory animal, they would be unable to pass. I will now again refine it as the exception being migratory animals, and organisms that exist in a symbotic relationship with them. Ha!
Ok, warfare and terrorism are out.
As is humanitarian aid, and any form of international trade.
You've just screwed over the future of humanity. Eventually some meteor will hit the planet (possibly as early as 2036), and we'll have no way of stopping it.
Welcome to the Dark Ages.

The environment would benefit from the lack of travel... :)
Comments like that give us written permission to torture you.

The environment would benefit from the lack of travel... :)
That reminds me of a Captain Planet episode this morning.

My cat woke me up at 5:30, so I watched the last 10 minutes of Captain Planet. Apparently Sludge was dumping shit into the ocean and turned a squid into a fucking huge, Nautica sized squid which didn't even remotely look like a squid. So the bastard squid, rips apart the harbor. Smashs two police cars, a couple dozen warehouses, a fire truck, and a couple square blocks of dock. So the mayor walks up to the Planeteers after Captain Planet sends it to the moon or something and is like "Well, now we have to deal with the damage done to the docks." The kid with the power of "heart" replies: "That is nothing compared to the damage done to the ocean."

Damn tree huggers.

Ahhhh, that's right you two. Unleash your inner cynics.

Now, to refine the theory.

Let's say any means of anything passing the borders of the country where it originated is gone. The only exception being migratory animals.

So, migratory animals are able to cross these impregnable borders, but heat, light, radiation and other parts of the EM spectrum can't? What kind of weird-assed animals do they have around your neck of the woods?

So just because I can't travel to N. Korea doesn't mean I can't send them goodies via ICBM or pilotless long range robot bombers (already in the works as far as I know).

Well, first it should be noted that I'm just playing Devil's Advocate here, and a very fun role it is (though I prefer cynic).

Second, as I stated earlier.

Let's say any means of anything passing the borders of the country where it originated is gone. The only exception being migratory animals.

[QUOTE=MoanthaNo more war immeadietly springs to mind.[/QUOTE]

Not really. Wars could potentially become more frequent because cultures would become more ignorant toward each other, and people who would flee their countries and come elsewhere would be stuck, thus further provoking civil war in many countries. Also, if international travel is banned then treaties and other agreements will impossible to uphold, thus provoking weaker nations or even powerful nations short on resources to invade other countries. Otherwise, how will countries like Japan get their oil without conquering their way to the nearest OPEC nation?
Plus illegal border jumping will be quite literally a million times worse, as border jumpers will go from those simply looking to flee a country to sightseers and families on vacations as well. Well, that is until the world's economy goes the way of the 3DO and we get thrust back into the dark ages. It's expected to happen anyway when oil runs out, but it will happen a lot sooner if international travel is banned.

That reminds me of a Captain Planet episode this morning.

My cat woke me up at 5:30, so I watched the last 10 minutes of Captain Planet. Apparently Sludge was dumping shit into the ocean and turned a squid into a fucking huge, Nautica sized squid which didn't even remotely look like a squid. So the bastard squid, rips apart the harbor. Smashs two police cars, a couple dozen warehouses, a fire truck, and a couple square blocks of dock. So the mayor walks up to the Planeteers after Captain Planet sends it to the moon or something and is like "Well, now we have to deal with the damage done to the docks." The kid with the power of "heart" replies: "That is nothing compared to the damage done to the ocean."

Damn tree huggers.
Hey, don't knock Captain Planet. Although, 'heart', what the fuck was that all about.
Production meeting probably went like this:
"Ok, we've got the four elements. Let's add something shitty, to show...I dunno...some sort of love towards the environment. I got it! Heart!"
"Yeah, ok, whatever..."

Not really. Wars could potentially become more frequent because cultures would become more ignorant toward each other, and people who would flee their countries and come elsewhere would be stuck, thus further provoking civil war in many countries. Also, if international travel is banned then treaties and other agreements will impossible to uphold, thus provoking weaker nations or even powerful nations short on resources to invade other countries. Otherwise, how will countries like Japan get their oil without conquering their way to the nearest OPEC nation?
Plus illegal border jumping will be quite literally a million times worse, as border jumpers will go from those simply looking to flee a country to sightseers and families on vacations as well. Well, that is until the world's economy goes the way of the 3DO and we get thrust back into the dark ages. It's expected to happen anyway when oil runs out, but it will happen a lot sooner if international travel is banned.
Can't invade other countries, no travel remember?

Read entire post before flaming

I just had this weird thought.

If we shut down all international travel, (Not just the U.S., I mean the entire world, many of the problems facing the world today would disappear.

No more war immeadietly springs to mind. There are others.

Other problems would only increase, despotic leaders, starvation, genocide.

Just to be clear, I don't actually support this idea, but I thought I would put it out there to say if anyone does.Mistrust, misconceptions and misunderstandings will also grow. also, Hacking would become the next tool for spying, resulting in governments cracking down and monitoring internet useage.

Ok, warfare and terrorism are out.
As is humanitarian aid, and any form of international trade.
You've just screwed over the future of humanity. Eventually some meteor will hit the planet (possibly as early as 2036), and we'll have no way of stopping it.
Welcome to the Dark Ages.


Well...

Do we have any way of stopping it now?

Even if we make a bomb capable of stopping it we'd have to (a) devise a transport system for said bomb and (b) manage to detect the meteor and blow it up before it's close enough that (1) we'd have to deal with the fragments and (2) the fallout from the huge nuke we just used descends on earth and mutates us all into giant house-sized squid, making us wreck the docks and the ocean.

So, migratory animals are able to cross these impregnable borders, but heat, light, radiation and other parts of the EM spectrum can't? What kind of weird-assed animals do they have around your neck of the woods?

Very special animals. Liek jackalopes and bigfoots. Bigfeet. Whatever the plural of bigfoot is. :D

Mistrust, misconceptions and misunderstandings will also grow. also, Hacking would become the next tool for spying, resulting in governments cracking down and monitoring internet useage.

Clarification needed here: is it possible to transfer information over the borders other than by sending over sequences of migratory animals?


Swift, Swift, Swift.
Swallow, Swallow, Swallow.
Swift, Swift, Swift.

Clarification needed here: is it possible to transfer information over the borders other than by sending over sequences of migratory animals?


Swift, Swift, Swift.
Swallow, Swallow, Swallow.
Swift, Swift, Swift.

Only if you find an exceedingly intelligent migratory parrot. Which actually comes out as about the same thing.

Well...

Do we have any way of stopping it now?

Even if we make a bomb capable of stopping it we'd have to (a) devise a transport system for said bomb and (b) manage to detect the meteor and blow it up before it's close enough that (1) we'd have to deal with the fragments and (2) the fallout from the huge nuke we just used descends on earth and mutates us all into giant house-sized squid, making us wreck the docks and the ocean.
Yes.
Already have transport system - a rocket.
I believe the idea is we fire the rocket at the meteor, it crashes into it and deflects it off course. It wouldn't create many large fragments, none that would cause any damage to the earth anyway.
We've already detected the meteor. And there's no nuke involved.
Besides, there's plenty more ways of destroying life on earth apart from a giant meteor.

Swift, Swift, Swift.
Swallow, Swallow, Swallow.
Swift, Swift, Swift.
African or European swallow?

Well, first it should be noted that I'm just playing Devil's Advocate here, and a very fun role it is (though I prefer cynic).

Second, as I stated earlier.
Ok, I missed that part.

So, migratory animals are able to cross these impregnable borders, but heat, light, radiation and other parts of the EM spectrum can't? What kind of weird-assed animals do they have around your neck of the woods?

Actually, I'll refine again allowing for the passage of sunlight, but not man made light. Which I guess would allow communications through the use of mirrors, smoke signals, or standing at the border with a large sign. I'm not gonna allow sound though.

Can't invade other countries, no travel remember?
Ahh... but the internet... and for "Travel" you including mail in that?

besides, we can wage war without "travelling" to another country... or even leaving ours.

African or European swallow?

But then of course African swallows are not migratory.

What about international trade?

Yes.
Already have transport system - a rocket.
I believe the idea is we fire the rocket at the meteor, it crashes into it and deflects it off course. It wouldn't create many large fragments, none that would cause any damage to the earth anyway.
We've already detected the meteor. And there's no nuke involved.
Besides, there's plenty more ways of destroying life on earth apart from a giant meteor.

Well, considering we're talking about a meteor large enough to destroy earth/humanity, a single rocket would only be able to deflect it very slightly. Although I'll allow for the fact that even slight changes in trajectory can make a huge difference over time, wouldn't we have to hit it while it was still several hundred years away from the earth?

What about international trade?

That and humanitarian aid are the downsides. Not to mention I wouldn't be able to get all those cool new games coming from outside of the U.S. The seventh Harry Potter book is out too. :(

Clarification needed here: is it possible to transfer information over the borders other than by sending over sequences of migratory animals?


Swift, Swift, Swift.
Swallow, Swallow, Swallow.
Swift, Swift, Swift.Information will still flow throught the internet, news service and mail. Unless the originator is talking about complete Isolation.

then those in dire straits will invade their neighbors to get what is needed to survive, from that point on, news will spread and if relied by "old" forms of news spreading it will become exaggerated in both reason and methods.

remember how the oceans were once filled with sea monsters? or that the American Indians were 'savages' and anyone with dark skin was once though of being less than human? those times will return.

Ahh... but the internet... and for "Travel" you including mail in that?

besides, we can wage war without "travelling" to another country... or even leaving ours.

It appears that migratory animals are the only things that can cross the border. We could control the flow of certain animals at points along the border and thus communicate by either morse code or binary sequences. The internet would thus still be possible, but there would be a 'slight' increase in lag.

Information will still flow throught the internet, news service and mail. Unless the originator is talking about complete Isolation.

then those in dire straits will invade their neighbors to get what is needed to survive, from that point on, news will spread and if relied by "old" forms of news spreading it will become exaggerated in both reason and methods.

remember how the oceans were once filled with sea monsters? or that the American Indians were 'savages' and anyone with dark skin was once though of being less than human? those times will return.

Well, it would be kinda difficult to go invade your neighbor for your resources without being able to leave your country.

Unless you're talking about individuals, as opposed to nations, in which case, I'd advise you to lock your doors if you have a gallon of gas and your neighbor doesn't.

Information will still flow throught the internet, news service and mail. Unless the originator is talking about complete Isolation.

If we are able to transfer information through the medium of the internet then we are able to send electromagnetic waves across the borders. This means I can irradiate your hinterlands and send massive electrical discharges into your soft white underbelly. Looks like we got a possible war on our hands here...

then those in dire straits will invade their neighbors to get what is needed to survive, from that point on, news will spread and if relied by "old" forms of news spreading it will become exaggerated in both reason and methods.

Given the rules as they stand now those in dire straits can only cross the border if they are considered to be 'migratory animals'. Possibly some hunter-gatherers or reindeer farmers might manage to get such a classification, but I believe that would be pushing it. I'm operating under the assumption here that the source of these closed borders are Alien Space Bats (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soc.history.what-if#Irony_as_a_community_watchword) and they are not controlled by human agency.

Well, it would be kinda difficult to go invade your neighbor for your resources without being able to leave your country.

Unless you're talking about individuals, as opposed to nations, in which case, I'd advise you to lock your doors if you have a gallon of gas and your neighbor doesn't.
what's stopping a nation from standing at the border of their nation and taking that 'one step'? Not drive, but doing it the old fashioned way. the way the Medival troops did? Walk.

if were arguing total and complete Isolation, people will find a way around the barrier.

if not, then people die. the Gene Pool would become stagnant and eventually, no one lives.

if not, then people die. the Gene Pool would become stagnant and eventually, no one lives.

The Vatican wouldn't last long, I'll give you that, but I think China or India have little to fear for the next couple of thousand years from that particular aspect of the scenario.

But then of course African swallows are not migratory.
Of course. Didn't think of that.

Well, considering we're talking about a meteor large enough to destroy earth/humanity, a single rocket would only be able to deflect it very slightly. Although I'll allow for the fact that even slight changes in trajectory can make a huge difference over time, wouldn't we have to hit it while it was still several hundred years away from the earth?
Not really. Slowing it down by just a couple of metres per second would be enough to stop it from hitting us. Couple that with the deflection and it would almost certainly miss us. I believe we'd have to launch the rocket by about 2025 at the latest, though.

Not really. Slowing it down by just a couple of metres per second would be enough to stop it from hitting us. Couple that with the deflection and it would almost certainly miss us. I believe we'd have to launch the rocket by about 2025 at the latest, though.

I thought painting one side of an oncoming meteor white was now considered to be one of the most effective options, no?

I thought painting one side of an oncoming meteor white was now considered to be one of the most effective options, no?
You volunteering? I'll supply the paint if you want, but you've got to get the rocket yourself.

If one day humanity abandoned all hatred based on Race, Creed, Sexual Orientation, and Gender we would find something else to hate about each other in five minutes, ten tops.

It's how we work.:(

Pretty much. If we lived in a perfect world, in five minutes, someone would start complaining that there was nothing to complain about and *poof*, that would be the end of that.

I thought painting one side of an oncoming meteor white was now considered to be one of the most effective options, no?


One would think you would want to paint it black so it would abosrb heat better and be more likely to burn up in the atmosphere.

One would think you would want to paint it black so it would abosrb heat better and be more likely to burn up in the atmosphere.

I believe the idea with painting it white is that it then alters the pressure exerted on it by sunlight, thus deflecting it slightly (or is it to create a temperature gradiant form one side of the body to the other (?)). Painting it black is a fool's errand as they are apparently effectively black to start with.