NationStates Jolt Archive

Now, while I make no secret of the fact that I'm an atheist, I'm still sick & tired of this whole idea that there is some how a war on Christmas, maybe there is, maybe there isn't. I tend to believe there isn't.

Although what I do believe is that we have gone over the PC cliff on this one.

So, to sum up my thoughts on the whole thing, I shall let "Foamy" say how I pretty much feel about it.

As Told By My Pal Foamy! (http://www.illwillpress.com/xmas.html)

Oh and btw, Merry Christmas!

Peace - Stephanie.

Foamy has been smoking some shit.

He goes from "they are removing all the songs with religious themes from school plays" straight to "they are trying to beat santa out of Christmas."

What the fuck? Remove Santa from Christmas, hold on there skippy. I think they are trying to remove Christ from Christmas. And if you are asserting Christ is a chubby guy in a red suit with a white beard who flys around with a bunch of reindeer in a sleigh, then you are going to get into some major shit with the religous asshats.

**laughs**

Good old Foamy, spewing forth truth and expletives from every orifice.
'Tis the season to shut the fuck up and stop being whiny scumbags!'

I have two small children.. and I was also a child once, all I'm trying to say is, get over it. This PC shit has gone too far. Do I think that singing "Silent Night" is going to turn my kids into religious freaks? NO! I believe no such thing. The message is leave Christmas alone. Let the kids believe in Santa and if your neighbour has a nativity scene on their front lawn, let them be, I don't believe in it.. but if they do, let them do whatever the hell they want to THEIR property... It's just gotten stupid at this point. Let people enjoy Christmas however they want.. I personally will be having a Santa type Christmas, others may have some religion in their Christmas, who cares?

As a liberal I *DO* believe that we should respect everyone's beliefs... so this was more for the "PC" crowd who some how are offended by EVERYTHING!

I'll stand by for now, but when it becomes the War on Presents then the shit will be hitting the fan,

Foamy has been smoking some shit.

He goes from "they are removing all the songs with religious themes from school plays" straight to "they are trying to beat santa out of Christmas."

What the fuck? Remove Santa from Christmas, hold on there skippy. I think they are trying to remove Christ from Christmas. And if you are asserting Christ is a chubby guy in a red suit with a white beard who flys around with a bunch of reindeer in a sleigh, then you are going to get into some major shit with the religous asshats.

Bingo.

Foamy is funny, but he is full of shit. No one is trying to remove Santa from Christmas.

And it does matter if your local school teaches about the alleged birth of "our Lord and Savior."

I have two small children.. and I was also a child once, all I'm trying to say is, get over it. This PC shit has gone too far. Do I think that singing "Silent Night" is going to turn my kids into religious freaks? NO! I believe no such thing. The message is leave Christmas alone. Let the kids believe in Santa and if your neighbour has a nativity scene on their front lawn, let them be, I don't believe in it.. but if they do, let them do whatever the hell they want to THEIR property... It's just gotten stupid at this point. Let people enjoy Christmas however they want.. I personally will be having a Santa type Christmas, others may have some religion in their Christmas, who cares?

As a liberal I *DO* believe that we should respect everyone's beliefs... so this was more for the "PC" crowd who some how are offended by EVERYTHING!

It's just not christmas without silent night, or come let us adore him(adeste fidelis is good too)

There's a huge difference between putting up Christmas decorations at a private home and having a public school teach Christian ideals. They're really not the same issue at all.

I have two small children.. and I was also a child once, all I'm trying to say is, get over it. This PC shit has gone too far. Do I think that singing "Silent Night" is going to turn my kids into religious freaks? NO! I believe no such thing. The message is leave Christmas alone. Let the kids believe in Santa and if your neighbour has a nativity scene on their front lawn, let them be, I don't believe in it.. but if they do, let them do whatever the hell they want to THEIR property... It's just gotten stupid at this point. Let people enjoy Christmas however they want.. I personally will be having a Santa type Christmas, others may have some religion in their Christmas, who cares?

As a liberal I *DO* believe that we should respect everyone's beliefs... so this was more for the "PC" crowd who some how are offended by EVERYTHING!

Um. I'm sorry to interrupt your rant, but no one gives a fuck if their neighbor has a nativity scene on THEIR property. It is when they want to put it and other religious shit on GOVERNMENT property that is the issue.

I'm not the least offended by others celebrating Christmas, Hanukkah, Kwanzaa, Ramadan, etc. But I get "PC" when you try to force me or any other people -- especially children -- to celebrate a set of religious beliefs. I see no need to apologize for (a) believing in free expression AND tolerance and (b) defending the US Constitution.

Have a Merry Christmas!

Um. I'm sorry to interrupt your rant, but no one gives a fuck if their neighbor has a nativity scene on THEIR property. It is when they want to put it and other religious shit on GOVERNMENT property that is the issue.

I'm not the least offended by others celebrating Christmas, Hanukkah, Kwanzaa, Ramadan, etc. But I get "PC" when you try to force me or any other people -- especially children -- to celebrate a set of religious beliefs. I see no need to apologize for (a) believing in free expression AND tolerance and (b) defending the US Constitution.

Have a Merry Christmas!

How does having a nativity scene force anyone celebrate christmas/turn christian?

There's a huge difference between putting up Christmas decorations at a private home and having a public school teach Christian ideals. They're really not the same issue at all.

"Exactically!" said the Caterpillar.

It's just not christmas without silent night, or come let us adore him(adeste fidelis is good too)
Fine for Christmas, but why do all the non-Christians have to sing along or else look like grinchy losers?

3 points make up my bottom line on this issue:

1. In the US, Christmas is BOTH a religious holiday for Christians and a secular holiday for everyone. There are plenty of excellent secular Christmas songs to sing in school, so as long as non-Christian kids aren't being forced to sing the praises of someone else's god, then the PCer's can go untwist their knickers and quit annoying people. Merry Christmas, everyone.

2. In the US, you're allowed to be as religious as you like in public, just as long as you don't force others to participate. So go ahead and sing your freaky little songs and the hell with PCers who don't like it. Just don't complain if the Jews decide your kids should be forced to play the draedle and eat blintzes next week. :p

3. The "War on Christmas" is a bunch of crap promoted by that ratings whore, Bill O'Reilly. Don't waste your brain energy on it.

Um. I'm sorry to interrupt your rant, but no one gives a fuck if their neighbor has a nativity scene on THEIR property. It is when they want to put it and other religious shit on GOVERNMENT property that is the issue.

I'm not the least offended by others celebrating Christmas, Hanukkah, Kwanzaa, Ramadan, etc. But I get "PC" when you try to force me or any other people -- especially children -- to celebrate a set of religious beliefs. I see no need to apologize for (a) believing in free expression AND tolerance and (b) defending the US Constitution.

Have a Merry Christmas!

1) I'm not living in America.. I'm Canadian.

2) Christmas plays were fun, and didn't turn kids into religious freaks. I took part when I was a kid and I'm an atheist.

3) I agree 100% with separation of church & state, but c'mon, it's Christmas. Or do people not want kids today to enjoy the magic (false as it may of been) to enjoy Christmas like we did?

4) Merry Christmas to you too Cat-Tribe. :)

How does having a nativity scene force anyone celebrate christmas/turn christian?

Come now.

What is a nativity scence?

It is an alleged depiction of birth of Jesus Christ, Our Lord. (Even though we "know" from the Bible that Jesus wasn't born in winter.)

Nativity scenes are undeniably religious in their meaning.

The question isn't whether it forces me to become Christian. The 1st Amendment says you can't use my tax dollars to teach religion like that.

(Personally, I don't sweat nativity scenes very much. But the principal is sound. They don't belong on government property nor should they be funded by government money.)

If you use my tax dollars to depict this

"foamy" has been blocked by Sonicwall as being on a 'mature/adult content' site. Could you maybe post the rant?

Fine for Christmas, but why do all the non-Christians have to sing along or else look like grinchy losers?

3 points make up my bottom line on this issue:

1. In the US, Christmas is BOTH a religious holiday for Christians and a secular holiday for everyone. There are plenty of excellent secular Christmas songs to sing in school, so as long as non-Christian kids aren't being forced to sing the praises of someone else's god, then the PCer's can go untwist their knickers and quit annoying people. Merry Christmas, everyone.

2. In the US, you're allowed to be as religious as you like in public, just as long as you don't force others to participate. So go ahead and sing your freaky little songs and the hell with PCers who don't like it. Just don't complain if the Jews decide your kids should be forced to play the draedle and eat blintzes next week. :p

3. The "War on Christmas" is a bunch of crap promoted by that ratings whore, Bill O'Reilly. Don't waste your brain energy on it.

Well said.

I have two small children.. and I was also a child once, all I'm trying to say is, get over it. This PC shit has gone too far. Do I think that singing "Silent Night" is going to turn my kids into religious freaks? NO! I believe no such thing. The message is leave Christmas alone. Let the kids believe in Santa and if your neighbour has a nativity scene on their front lawn, let them be, I don't believe in it.. but if they do, let them do whatever the hell they want to THEIR property... It's just gotten stupid at this point. Let people enjoy Christmas however they want.. I personally will be having a Santa type Christmas, others may have some religion in their Christmas, who cares?

As a liberal I *DO* believe that we should respect everyone's beliefs... so this was more for the "PC" crowd who some how are offended by EVERYTHING!
I don't know where other people live...but I have yet to see one actual example of any of this sort of crap...banning Christmas carols, bitching about nativity scenes and so on. Seriously...have any of YOU personally seen it?

And your definition of PC is sounding a lot like Eut's.

Did something happen strange happen since this time last year? I dont remember any of these weird threads about the "war on christmas" appearing last year, or maybe my memory is just hazy. Anyway in summation: Its all fucking stupid. Say merry christmas, have carols in schools and plays and all that stuff and stop being so uptight.

And not that it should matter, but i'm an atheist.

Did something happen strange happen since this time last year? I dont remember any of these weird threads about the "war on christmas" appearing last year, or maybe my memory is just hazy. No, I don't remember it either. And aside from these ranting threads on NS, I have yet to actually see a single case of a real life 'war on christmas' incident. I think people like getting 'foamy' about anything when nothing else presents itself.

Well, it's called Christmas for something. Taking Christ out of it is like taking the chocolate out of a chocolate pudding. It seems they just want to keep the capitalist aspect of the holiday. Way to go. If they don't like it, then discard ALL of Christmas altogether. Besides, America's official religion is Christianity (approximately 80% of the Americans are Christian), I don't even know why are they even doing this.

Come now.

What is a nativity scence?

It is an alleged depiction of birth of Jesus Christ, Our Lord. (Even though we "know" from the Bible that Jesus wasn't born in winter.)

Nativity scenes are undeniably religious in their meaning.

The question isn't whether it forces me to become Christian. The 1st Amendment says you can't use my tax dollars to teach religion like that.

(Personally, I don't sweat nativity scenes very much. But the principal is sound. They don't belong on government property nor should they be funded by government money.)

If you use my tax dollars to depict this
I agree completely (although you could lighten up a bit; hey, it's Christmas, or Yule, or whatever). I have no problem with public religious displays, but I do have a problem when government or public buildings display symbols of only one religion, as if there are no others having holidays at this time of year in the US. All or nothing, I say. The courts have consistently decided on nothing, which is certainly the right decision in the long run, but I'd be just as satisfied with the alternative and have our public buildings so festooned with holiday decorations of every conceivable sort that you'd have a hard time finding the front door. Equal time for all, dammit. The government either participates in holidays of the citizenry, or it doesn't. But they don't get to pick and choose which ones they like better.

Well, it's called Christmas for something. Taking Christ out of it is like taking the chocolate out of a chocolate pudding. It seems they just want to keep the capitalist aspect of the holiday. Way to go. If you don't like it, then discard ALL of Christmas altogether. Besides, America's official religion is Christianity (approximately 80% of the Americans are Christian), I don't even know what's all the fuss about.


If you want to be a melting pot, then that sounds like a good plan. But 20% of your citizens are excluded from the festivities, yet still pay tax dollars to fund school pagents.

I don't know where other people live...but I have yet to see one actual example of any of this sort of crap...banning Christmas carols, bitching about nativity scenes and so on. Seriously...have any of YOU personally seen it?

And your definition of PC is sounding a lot like Eut's.
there are such PC extremists, at least in the US, and they are as crazy and annoying as right-wing religious extremists.

Well, it's called Christmas for something. Taking Christ out of it is like taking the chocolate out of a chocolate pudding. It seems they just want to keep the capitalist aspect of the holiday. Way to go. If you don't like it, then discard ALL of Christmas altogether. Besides, America's official religion is Christianity (approximately 80% of the Americans are Christian), I don't even know what's all the fuss about.
Oh come on now, it doesn't have to be all or nothing "All Christ" or bust. I've never been a Christian, and I've always celebrated Christmas. What do I celebrate? Being with my family, giving and receiving gifts, and relaxing. I can continue to celebrate that even if my neighbours decide to go to Church on Christmas Eve, put up nativity scenes, or whatever. I can even sing Christmas carols with my kids, without for a second believing in the religious message contained in the lyrics...just like I can sing "Puff the Magic Dragon" without actually thinking dragons exist.

If my kids are in a Christmas concert, however, I would hope that the message not be ridiculously Christian and exclusive. The ideals of 'peace, love and joy' are not just Christian ideals, and can be adequately presented without pretending they are. Even depicting the 'birth of Jesus' to me, is more like a historical fantasy than an overt attempt to 'convert' my kids...but I'd still appreciate a concert that doesn't glorify one particular faith over any other...because ALL kids get this holiday, whether they're Christian or not.

there are such PC extremists, at least in the US, and they are as crazy and annoying as right-wing religious extremists.
Keep them. Please.

And your definition of PC is sounding a lot like Eut's.

Comparing me to Eut, is childish at best. Get over yourself, really. You (as much as you'd like the rest of to think different) are one of the most judgmental people on this forum, then you have the nerve to offer up your own style of "PC"... works when it works for you, but if you disagree, well then it's just wrong. The world according to Sinuhue. You actually think it's a perk that people on this site think of you as the "horniest" NS player, as some sort of a good thing. I'd personally be embarrassed and look deep into myself as to why it's so important to me to give off this low self esteem image.

I call them as I see them. If you didn't have low self esteem you wouldn't say half the things you do.

Heck forbid we let kids be kids and have a little fun before they figure out it was all a fairy tale. I don't envy your children if you ever have any, as they will be so programmed it's no better than the religious freaks, only on the other far side of the spectrum.

People who get all upset over this shit, are exactly like the religious freaks. I see no difference.

Well, it's called Christmas for something. Taking Christ out of it is like taking the chocolate out of a chocolate pudding. It seems they just want to keep the capitalist aspect of the holiday. Way to go. If they don't like it, then discard ALL of Christmas altogether. Besides, America's official religion is Christianity (approximately 80% of the Americans are Christian), I don't even know why are they even doing this.
America does not have an "official" religion. Regardless of what the religion of the founders may have been, no religion was ever established as the national religion. And here's one voter determined to see that none ever will be.

Keep them. Please.
I'd rather get rid of them. Don't you need something to use for doorstops? :D

Comparing me to Eut, is childish at best. Get over yourself, really. You (as much as you'd like the rest of to think different) are one of the most judgmental people on this forum, then you have the nerve to offer up your own style of "PC"... works when it works for you, but if you disagree, well then it's just wrong. The world according to Sinuhue. You actually think it's a perk that people on this site think of you as the "horniest" NS player, as some sort of a good thing. I'd personally be embarrassed and look deep into myself as to why it's so important to me to give off this low self esteem image.

I call them as I see them. If you didn't have low self esteem you wouldn't say half the things you do.

Heck forbid we let kids be kids and have a little fun before they figure out it was all a fairy tale. I don't envy your children if you ever have any, as they will be so programmed it's no better than the religious freaks, only on the other far side of the spectrum.

People who get all upset over this shit, are exactly like the religious freaks. I see no difference.
Steph, I'm very sorry that you are full of so much bile and hatred. I didn't realise it ran this deeply in you. But thank you for making it very clear to me that you are not a person to be trusted. It also amazes me that you so completely misconstrued my quote as 'ranting about Christmas'. Try again:

I don't know where other people live...but I have yet to see one actual example of any of this sort of crap...banning Christmas carols, bitching about nativity scenes and so on. Seriously...have any of YOU personally seen it?

And your definition of PC is sounding a lot like Eut's.

If you want to be a melting pot, then that sounds like a good plan. But 20% of your citizens are excluded from the festivities, yet still pay tax dollars to fund school pagents.
If they don't believe in the nature of the holiday, then why should they be included? Instead of whining about religious icons and stripping Christmas of its essence, they should work on getting the government not to charge them with those taxes.

America does not have an "official" religion. Regardless of what the religion of the founders may have been, no religion was ever established as the national religion. And here's one voter determined to see that none ever will be.
Then why's the nation's motto "In God We Trust"?

If they don't believe in the nature of the holiday, then why should they be included? Instead of whining about religious icons and stripping Christmas of its essence, they should work on getting the government not to charge them with those taxes.


They shouldn't be included in private relgious ceremonies, but they should be allowed to be recognised as important members of society. It's not about banning christmas. It's about the seperation of church and state, which should have been completed years ago. Not everybody who pays money trusts in God, and not every kid attending a public school is going to be visited by "Santa" on the 25th.

They shouldn't be included in private relgious ceremonies, but they should be allowed to be recognised as important members of society. It's not about banning christmas. It's about the seperation of church and state, which should have been completed years ago. Not everybody who pays money trusts in God, and not every kid attending a public school is going to be visited by "Santa" on the 25th.
I agree, and they should work on that separation. But they don't have the right to change Christmas. It's not their religion, not their choice.

I'd rather get rid of them. Don't you need something to use for doorstops? :D
Not really...I'd really prefer this sort of thing NOT spread to Canada. Though it may be here already? I'm still waiting for some Canadian to give me an example of the 'war on Christmas' here.

Then why's the nation's motto "In God We Trust"?
It's motto is "E Pluribus Unum." "In God We Trust" is on the money, ever since the founding of the US back in the '50s. :rolleyes:

I agree, and they should work on that separation. But don't have the right to change Christmas. It's not their religion, not their choice.
Christmas hasn't just been about 'Christ' for plenty of people for a long time now ...by the way, does anyone know when the term X-mas was coined? And why?

I agree, and they should work on that separation. But don't have the right to change Christmas. It's not their religion, not their choice.

I don't want to change Christmas, and anybody who is really campaigning for a more PC december should agree. I just think that everybody would be happier if celebrations within public organisations were strictly non-denominational. That would not limit the abilities of Christians to send cards and sing carols outside of places such as schools. And they could still wear Rudolph sweaters to school if they really felt it nessacary.

Christmas hasn't just been about 'Christ' for plenty of people for a long time now ...
I know that, but it doesn't mean they can change it to reflect the opinion of the minority of the population.

I know that, but it doesn't mean they can change it to reflect the opinion of the minority of the population.
It's motto is "E Pluribus Unum." "In God We Trust" is on the money, ever since the founding of the US back in the '50s. :rolleyes:
Wikipedia states otherwise. At any rate, having that phrase on the bills defines a certain tendency, don't you think?

I know that, but it doesn't mean they can change it to reflect the opinion of the minority of the population.
Just so we're talking about the same thing here...what are the Christmas 'symbols' in your mind? Because I don't consider Santa, his elves, reindeer, the Christmas tree and gift giving to have any religious conotations...?

If they don't believe in the nature of the holiday, then why should they be included? Instead of whining about religious icons and stripping Christmas of its essence, they should work on getting the government not to charge them with those taxes.


Then why's the nation's motto "In God We Trust"?
It shouldn't be, imo. I get offended every time I look at a dollar (and offended again when I see how little I can buy with it). :D

Santa, his elves, reindeers and gift-giving are the non-religious symbols of Christmas, in my opinion. The tree does have some religious meaning which I can't recall at the moment, though (it has to be set-up on December 8th for some reason).

Steph, I'm very sorry that you are full of so much bile and hatred.

I am no such thing.. I'm just not full of myself as I believe you to be.

At any rate, I will stop, before your own actions are reported to moderation again as flaming.. All I said was what you yourself have done and been coined as, not by me, but by others.

Well, it's called Christmas for something. Taking Christ out of it is like taking the chocolate out of a chocolate pudding. It seems they just want to keep the capitalist aspect of the holiday. Way to go. If they don't like it, then discard ALL of Christmas altogether. Besides, America's official religion is Christianity (approximately 80% of the Americans are Christian), I don't even know why are they even doing this.
It's only called Christmas because the holiday was highjacked.
Celebrating the Yule time, hope for prosperity in the comming spring, being with family are not capitalist.

Bck on topic: If the public school I send my kids to (or any government institution where I live) endorses the christian distortion of Yule celebrations, can I ask for my taxes for that year back? My neighbour can put out all the christain symbology he wants on his own property, if the neighbour of the other side wants to put out a nativity scene where the 3 wise men have beheaded Joe and Mary in an effort to kidnap the baby jesus for the slave market... well that's fine too. (But I know for a fact that neighbour would recieve death threats.)

I don't want to stop Christains celebrating the Yule in there own manner with their own beliefs. I don't want the government and government funding to support their beliefs over the many others that are connected with this time of year.

The tree does have some religious meaning which I can't recall at the moment, though (it has to be set-up on December 8th for some reason).
Yeah, it does. It is the pagan symbol of new life coming back after the thaw because of the evergreens being, well, ever green.

I know that, but it doesn't mean they can change it to reflect the opinion of the minority of the population.


Wikipedia states otherwise. At any rate, having that phrase on the bills defines a certain tendency, don't you think?
Wikipedia is not a reliable source for factual information because contributors are not vetted. You have a whole internet. You can find better sources.

A certain tendency, eh? Once upon a time, there was a tendency in a large part of the US to lynch black men who said good morning to white women. Tendencies are not a basis on which to run a country.

Well, it's called Christmas for something. Taking Christ out of it is like taking the chocolate out of a chocolate pudding. It seems they just want to keep the capitalist aspect of the holiday. Way to go. If they don't like it, then discard ALL of Christmas altogether. Besides, America's official religion is Christianity (approximately 80% of the Americans are Christian), I don't even know why are they even doing this.If they don't believe in the nature of the holiday, then why should they be included? I am a Christian... and I say Wingarde does not ... DOES NOT SPEAK FOR ALL OF CHRISTIANITY...

BTW I do appreciate the common sense of people like Stephistan and Sinuhue..

I say have all religeons represented or none if you get rid of songs like silent night for religion get rid of hunika songs to that is the only problem other then that all those extreem rightest who keep shouting about a war on christmas should be shot.

I am a Christian... and idiots like this DO NOT SPEAK FOR ALL OF CHRISTIANITY...

BTW I do appreciate the common sense of people like Stephistan and Sinuhue..
Thanks for the flame. Would you care to elaborate? :rolleyes:

No, I don't remember it either. And aside from these ranting threads on NS, I have yet to actually see a single case of a real life 'war on christmas' incident. I think people like getting 'foamy' about anything when nothing else presents itself.Toronto City officials there had decreed that the 15-metre pine recently erected in the city centre is not a Christmas tree - but a holiday tree.

Only to be told by Muslim , Jewish , and other Religious and non-religeous leaders... that they are stupid.

so let me add my Voice to that:

Toronto City Officials, You all Suck!

-- the ones involved in the Xmas-Gate.

It's motto is "E Pluribus Unum." "In God We Trust" is on the money, ever since the founding of the US back in the '50s. :rolleyes:


Actually both 'In God we Trust' and 'E Puribus Unum' are recognized national motto's for the US.

http://worldatlas.com/webimage/countrys/namerica/usflag.htm

http://usscouts.org/flag/sealmotto.html

I know that, but it doesn't mean they can change it to reflect the opinion of the minority of the population.


Wikipedia states otherwise. At any rate, having that phrase on the bills defines a certain tendency, don't you think?
Yes the US government was trying to manipulate the population during the cold war. The tendency here is for governments in many countries to manipulate public opinion to create a greater feeling of animosity towards an enemy, or a perceived enemy, of the government. "In god we trust" was established to encourage the view that Americans are of a "higher moral" fibre then the Russians.

Piekrom']I say have all religeons represented or none if you get rid of songs like silent night for religion get rid of hunika songs to that is the only problem other then that all those extreem rightest who keep shouting about a war on christmas should be shot.
Psst... better not to advocate shooting people. It's Christmas, after all. And next week, it'll be Hanukah. ;)

Toronto City officials there had decreed that the 15-metre pine recently erected in the city centre is not a Christmas tree - but a holiday tree.

Only to be told by Muslim , Jewish , and other Religious and non-religeous leaders... that they are stupid.:D Now that's what I like to hear! People united in fighting stupidity!

I hadn't heard this...does this fortell of worse to come? Seriously? A 'holiday' tree?:rolleyes:

Thanks for the flame. Would you care to elaborate? :rolleyes:*reminds himself to avoid religion nutcases*
elaborate?

Christmas is not an exclusive celebration... reserved for Christians...
anyone who reasons like you should not call himself a Christian.

Psst... better not to advocate shooting people. It's Christmas, after all. And next week, it'll be Hanukah. ;)

W00t Hannukah. Jews representin!

"In god we trust" was established to encourage the view that Americans are of a "higher moral" fibre then the Russians. No, IIRC "In God We Trust" was put on currency after the civil war when a priest suggested it to help return a unifying religious spirit to the divided nation

I am no such thing.. I'm just not full of myself as I believe you to be.

At any rate, I will stop, before your own actions are reported to moderation again as flaming.. All I said was what you yourself have done and been coined as, not by me, but by others.

come on Steph really... Sinuhue did not deserve the response you gave her, which was pretty harsh. She said your definition of PC sounded a lot like Euts, she didn't say you are just like Eut. And she asked if you saw examples of this in your personal life.

No, IIRC "In God We Trust" was put on currency after the civil war when a priest suggested it to help return a unifying religious spirit to the divided nation
But it wasn't made official until we felt like being "more moral" than the Russians.

W00t Hannukah. Jews representin!

No, IIRC "In God We Trust" was put on currency after the civil war when a priest suggested it to help return a unifying religious spirit to the divided nation
It appeared sparadicly on coins. In the mid 1950's congress made it an offical motto and said it had to appear on ALL currency. So while it was an optional coin design since the civil war, "In God We Trust" was not a "offical" stance of the US government until the Cold War.

Comparing me to Eut, is childish at best. Get over yourself, really. You (as much as you'd like the rest of to think different) are one of the most judgmental people on this forum, then you have the nerve to offer up your own style of "PC"... works when it works for you, but if you disagree, well then it's just wrong. The world according to Sinuhue. You actually think it's a perk that people on this site think of you as the "horniest" NS player, as some sort of a good thing. I'd personally be embarrassed and look deep into myself as to why it's so important to me to give off this low self esteem image.

I call them as I see them. If you didn't have low self esteem you wouldn't say half the things you do.

Heck forbid we let kids be kids and have a little fun before they figure out it was all a fairy tale. I don't envy your children if you ever have any, as they will be so programmed it's no better than the religious freaks, only on the other far side of the spectrum.

People who get all upset over this shit, are exactly like the religious freaks. I see no difference.
Didn't you used to be a mod? What is the point of this post other than to personally attack the poster? Perhaps I don't know the definition of flaming and flamebaiting, but you certainly should.

I don't know where other people live...but I have yet to see one actual example of any of this sort of crap...banning Christmas carols, bitching about nativity scenes and so on. Seriously...have any of YOU personally seen it?

And your definition of PC is sounding a lot like Eut's.


Frankly, If you haven't heard of the litany of lawsuits in the US that has put a moratorium on virtually any Christmas display on public property unless it also includes references to other religions, then frankly you haven't been paying much attention.

Not that the war is as directed as the Bill Oreilly's would have you believe, but certainly that the celebration of Christmas has been largely quashed from publicly funded budgets.


Not that I really WANT to wiegh in on a little interpersonal battle, but from what I have seen of their interaction surely you must have known that your directly comparing Stephistan to someone who she regularly butts heads with was going to be taken poorly? Especially given that she didn't even give her definition of PC?


Anyway, hope you two can work it out without the need for intervention from higher powers.

I think Sin meant that she has yet to see one example in her personal life and asked if anyone else has in theirs.

Edit to say... I actually have not seen it in my personal life. So it would seem that it is a bit overblown in the media. I have seen my boss put "Happy Holidays" on our xmas cards and bitch about having to do it but noone ever told him what to put on the xmas cards to our clients, he chose to do it without the slightest bit of coersion.

I think Sin meant that she has yet to see one example in her personal life and asked if anyone else has in theirs.


I would love to go on with this debate, but I must refrain as Sin has made it impossible for me to debate this thread without worry of her running to mod should I say something that she doesn't like.

More than anything it was meant as a funny thread about the stupidity that people are making over "Happy Holidays" .vs "Merry Christmas" etc.. I think Foamy is a funny character, I really thought people would get a laugh out of it more than anything else.

But, this is NS after all, I should of known better. ;)

I think Sin meant that she has yet to see one example in her personal life and asked if anyone else has in theirs.

Well, besides the "Holiday Tree" BS in Toronto that someone already brought up, this year the Royal Canadian Mint changed it's seasonal Ad from "The 12 Days of Christmas" to "The 12 Days of Giving" for example.

We aren't AS anal about it yet in Canada as they are to the south, but it seems we're on the same path.

I would love to go on with this debate, but I must refrain as Sin has made it impossible for me to debate this thread without worry of her running to mod should I say something that she doesn't like.

More than anything it was meant as a funny thread about the stupidity that people are making over "Happy Holidays" .vs "Merry Christmas" etc.. I think Foamy is a funny character, I really thought people would get a laugh out of it more than anything else.

But, this is NS after all, I should of known better. ;)


don't get me wrong... I agree with you that it's a stupid debate and people should call it whatever they want. But I also agee with those who say that the govt. should not use our tax dollars to fund religious teachings, and I'm not an atheist... although to be fair I am not religious either.

Well, besides the "Holiday Tree" BS in Toronto that someone already brought up, this year the Royal Canadian Mint changed it's seasonal Ad from "The 12 Days of Christmas" to "The 12 Days of Giving" for example.

We aren't AS anal about it yet in Canada as they are to the south, but it seems we're on the same path.


I edited my post above.

I am not denying that there are in fact people trying to be more inclusive of others for the holiday season, or that some don't feel that our govt. should use tax dollars to promote religious displays and are fighting it. I just personally have not seen anything in my personal life that would warrant the idea that there is a war on christmas.

Well, it's called Christmas for something. Taking Christ out of it is like taking the chocolate out of a chocolate pudding. It seems they just want to keep the capitalist aspect of the holiday. Way to go. If they don't like it, then discard ALL of Christmas altogether. Besides, America's official religion is Christianity (approximately 80% of the Americans are Christian), I don't even know why are they even doing this.

Um. No. That is the whole point of the 1st Amendment. The US has no official religion.

And, btw, the Christmas holiday existed before Christianity took it over. Christ wasn't born during winter, according to the Bible. Christians simply adopted a pagan holiday.

Comparing me to Eut, is childish at best. Get over yourself, really. You (as much as you'd like the rest of to think different) are one of the most judgmental people on this forum, then you have the nerve to offer up your own style of "PC"... works when it works for you, but if you disagree, well then it's just wrong. The world according to Sinuhue. You actually think it's a perk that people on this site think of you as the "horniest" NS player, as some sort of a good thing. I'd personally be embarrassed and look deep into myself as to why it's so important to me to give off this low self esteem image.

I call them as I see them. If you didn't have low self esteem you wouldn't say half the things you do.

Heck forbid we let kids be kids and have a little fun before they figure out it was all a fairy tale. I don't envy your children if you ever have any, as they will be so programmed it's no better than the religious freaks, only on the other far side of the spectrum.

People who get all upset over this shit, are exactly like the religious freaks. I see no difference.

Steph, WTF?

Someone questions your point and suddenly you are making personal attacks. I thought better of you.

Santa, his elves, reindeers and gift-giving are the non-religious symbols of Christmas, in my opinion. The tree does have some religious meaning which I can't recall at the moment, though (it has to be set-up on December 8th for some reason).

Agreed (although I don't think the tree counts as religious).

I have no objection to, and personally celebrate, Christmas. All the non-religious aspects of the holiday are wholly appropriate in schools. It is just teaching or supporting religion that is wrong.

Again, there is no war on Christmas. That is just bullshit.

I would love to go on with this debate, but I must refrain as Sin has made it impossible for me to debate this thread without worry of her running to mod should I say something that she doesn't like.

More than anything it was meant as a funny thread about the stupidity that people are making over "Happy Holidays" .vs "Merry Christmas" etc.. I think Foamy is a funny character, I really thought people would get a laugh out of it more than anything else.

But, this is NS after all, I should of known better. ;)

Sounds like "I'm taking my marbles and going home."

Foamy was funny. He just also was full of shit.

No, I don't remember it either. And aside from these ranting threads on NS, I have yet to actually see a single case of a real life 'war on christmas' incident. I think people like getting 'foamy' about anything when nothing else presents itself.

I agree. That and diehard Christians tend to have a martyr complex about certain things.

Toronto City officials there had decreed that the 15-metre pine recently erected in the city centre is not a Christmas tree - but a holiday tree.

Only to be told by Muslim , Jewish , and other Religious and non-religeous leaders... that they are stupid.

so let me add my Voice to that:

Toronto City Officials, You all Suck!

-- the ones involved in the Xmas-Gate.

Um. Do you have evidence of this?

Toronto's official website (http://www.toronto.ca/special_events/cavalcade_lights/christmastree.htm) shows Toronto's official Christmas tree.

EDIT: Nevermind. I found articles that this was a controversy in 2002.
If you have to scrape back 3 years for a quasi-incident, that is little evidence of a war on Christmas.

Um. Do you have evidence of this?

Toronto's official website (http://www.toronto.ca/special_events/cavalcade_lights/christmastree.htm) shows Toronto's official Christmas tree.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/2590223.stm
or
http://www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/WinnipegSun/News/2004/11/18/719138.html

Boy, googling "Toronto Holiday Tree" sure was hard....

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/2590223.stm
or
http://www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/WinnipegSun/News/2004/11/18/719138.html

Boy, googling "Toronto Holiday Tree" sure was hard....

Note the edit to my post. I didn't know I was looking for a 3 year old story.

I googled "Toronto Christmas Tree" and got the official website with the official Christmas tree. That didn't quite match the story being told here.

Well, it's called Christmas for something. Taking Christ out of it is like taking the chocolate out of a chocolate pudding. It seems they just want to keep the capitalist aspect of the holiday. Way to go. If they don't like it, then discard ALL of Christmas altogether. Besides, America's official religion is Christianity (approximately 80% of the Americans are Christian), I don't even know why are they even doing this.

"Christmas" is the birth of tons of Pagan gods, including Osiris and Dionysis. Before Santa Claus, and also before any traces of the Christian religion, Christmas was a drinking and troublemaking holiday. Just about all Christmas traditions, including decorating your house, getting a Christmas tree, even Christmas cookies are all Pagan traditions, just like how all of the Easter traditions (besides going to church) are Pagan traditions.

The only Christian part of Christmas is the birth of Jesus of Nazareth and some of the lyrics of many of the Christmas songs

But, then again, if you study the Bible or thirst for random knowledge, you'll know that Jesus, if he existed, was born in June or July, and the date of Christmas was put in as some sort of trick. I don't remember why, I just remember that tidbit so well that I'm not sure if I just thought it up randomly.



Edit: I forgot to clarify that when the Santa Claus legend started to circulate, Christmas became a far more friendly holiday.

Edit2: Oh yeah, I personally believe, from all the people I know, that "80% of US citizens are Christian" is BS. It might just be that I live in Massachusetts though.

As any watcher of The Daily Show knows, the ironic thing here is that the Puritans banned Christmas.

As a result, Christmas was not a holiday in early America and it didn't become an official holiday until 1870.

http://www.historychannel.com/exhibits/holidays/christmas/real3.html

To be fair, Canada's head of state is also head of a major christian religion, so I suppose they have more wiggle room about seperation of church and state than the US.

In the US however, the face of government should have no religion. But it's a little difficult to apply that when the whitehouse has an offical christmas tree, and cities put christmas decorations up all over the place.

Sounds like "I'm taking my marbles and going home."

Foamy was funny. He just also was full of shit.

No, it was actually an attempt to calm the situation. I have no axe to grind. Yes, Foamy is funny, that was all I was really going for. As for Sin, she is who she is. I personally prefer not to grandstand. But to each their own.

I suppose comparing me to Eut really didn't help the situation. I have said sorry, I don't know what more you'd like from me?

I respect you Cat-Tribe, misguided loyalty though is not always the right way to go either. I have been here long before you and long before Sin, I only wished to stop the arguing.. if that means you see me as taking my marbles and going home, so be it. I'd rather do that anyway then start some stupid back and forth argument that neither would hurt nor help.

I post very seldom as of late, this is not by chance, there is a reason for it. You stick around as long as I have, you might (if you haven't already) understand what I mean.

Merry Christmas Cat-Tribe. :)

To be fair, Canada's head of state is also head of a major christian religion.

Totally untrue.. care to source that?

No, it was actually an attempt to calm the situation. I have no axe to grind. Yes, Foamy is funny, that was all I was really going for. As for Sin, she is who she is. I personally prefer not to grandstand. But to each their own.

Nice. Couldn't resist a little baiting, hmmm?

I suppose comparing me to Eut really didn't help the situation. I have said sorry, I don't know what more you'd like from me?

I respect you Cat-Tribe, misguided loyalty though is not always the right way to go either. I have been here long before you and long before Sin, I only wished to stop the arguing.. if that means you see me as taking my marbles and going home, so be it. I'd rather do that anyway then start some stupid back and forth argument that neither would hurt nor help.

I post very seldom as of late, this is not by chance, there is a reason for it. You stick around as long as I have, you might (if you haven't already) understand what I mean.

Merry Christmas Cat-Tribe. :)

Oh, look the "I'm wiser than you because I've been here longer" card. You flew off the handle and attacked Sin because she noticed that your hyperbole sounded like Eut. Since then, you've baited her thrice. The only reply I've seen her give is that your attacks were hateful. Having been here this long should have taught you that even if her actions warranted some recourse they do justify yours.

EDIT: You know what I find works when trying to calm a situation down? Stopping the personal attacks.

Just don't complain if the Jews decide your kids should be forced to play the draedle and eat blintzes next week. :p
In second or third grade the parents of a couple jewish kids at my school came and brought a bunch of jewish food and taught us a lot of jewish customs. They also handed out draedles and taught us how to play for them, which we did, using those chocolate coins. Would anyone here say that is not acceptable due to the seperation of church and state, or is that simply an educational thing. (That was at a public school, by the way)

Jocabia - You can take my words out of context if you like. It wasn't a jab, but put simply the truth.. I don't want this to start up again, I responded to Cat-Tribe because he posted to me. It was only an attempt to hopefully be understood.

I suppose if I spent my life here like I use to, it would mean more to me, but it just really doesn't.

You're also one I respect, but I can't nor will I even try to change your mind.

You've been here a long time too.. So, I would hope that you understood that all I was saying is it wears you down a bit. No matter what anyone says.. there will always be those who try to pick up the torch and run with it.

The post was meant to be light hearted, I'm sorry that was lost on so many.

I hope you have a very nice Christmas/Holiday. whatever you choose to call it. :)

Totally untrue.. care to source that?
Canada's "head of state" is the Queen of England, and thus head of the Anglican Church.

And you'd have to be a bugfreak krazy fascist to sound like Eutrusca.

By the way, I'm done defending myself... Just so everyone knows.

It was a light hearted post and I'm sorry if you all want to take it so seriously to the point of losing your sense of humour.. Not my problem, sounds like yours!

Canada's "head of state" is the Queen of England, and thus head of the Anglican Church.

That may of been true until 1982, when we broke away from the UK, the Queen in Canada is simply a figure head.. she has no power and if the GG ever tried to use any, it would be struck down by our Supreme Court.

The Queen really has no say in Canadian affairs.. and hasn't since 1982.

What pisses me off is the fact that there is a tree at the White House called the "Holiday Tree". It's a God damned TREE. Call it a Christmas tree, the tree has nothing to do with Jesus, so technically the tree is not religious at all.

Christmas is hardly a religious celebration anyways. You seen what we do on Christmas recently? We buy gifts and put them under a tree. Then we open them. Doesn't sound too religious to me. And if Americans want to say "Merry Christmas", we can. We've got freedom of speech.

We're not endorsing a religion any more than saying "Happy gift-giving day."

Concerning the matter of trees, any reports of environmentalist wackos torching Christmas tree lots? I heard something about that a few years ago.

That may of been true until 1982, when we broke away from the UK, the Queen in Canada is simply a figure head.. she has no power and if the GG ever tried to use any, it would be struck down by our Supreme Court.

The Queen really has no say in Canadian affairs.. and hasn't since 1982.
I'm aware of that, of course. Her position as head of state is technicality, and I never said otherwise.

Totally untrue.. care to source that?

Do I really have to bother? I mean, it's fairly common knowledge that Queen Elizabeth II is the head of the Church of England (You know Defender of the Faith and whatnot). And last I checked, that was still considered a major relgion.

Anyway, I was pointing out that it's probably okay to have christmas plays in schools in Canada because the C. of E. is more entwined with the government. (Historically and symbollically that is, not as a practical matter. She's on the money after all).

That may of been true until 1982, when we broke away from the UK, the Queen in Canada is simply a figure head.. she has no power and if the GG ever tried to use any, it would be struck down by our Supreme Court.

The Queen really has no say in Canadian affairs.. and hasn't since 1982.

And that's different to the UK, where if she tried to excercise Royal Perogative without the advice and recomendation of the Prime Minister she'd be overuled by Parliament, how exactly?

She's still the head of state, and she's still the Supreme Governor of the Church of England. You have a major religious figure on your money. I figure therefore the odd christmas play is not flying in the face of the Canadian constitution.

Do I really have to bother? I mean, it's fairly common knowledge that Queen Elizabeth II is the head of the Church of England (You know Defender of the Faith and whatnot). And last I checked, that was still considered a major relgion.

I appreciate your point of view, however it's simply wrong. I'm sorry, but you're way off base. As in not even close. You obviously simply don't understand the Canadian system... But that's okay, you don't live here, I don't expect you to know it.

I appreciate your point of view, however it's simply wrong. I'm sorry, but you're way off base. As in not even close. You obviously simply don't understand the Canadian system... But that's okay, you don't live here, I don't expect you to know it.

So she's not the head of state, and she's not on the money? I understand that Canada gained complete political independence from the UK in 1982, but that doesn't alter the fact that Canada is still a constitutional monarchy. (Albeit with a monarch with no power).

The Queen is even mentioned in your treason laws.

No, it was actually an attempt to calm the situation. I have no axe to grind. Yes, Foamy is funny, that was all I was really going for. As for Sin, she is who she is. I personally prefer not to grandstand. But to each their own.


The problem, the part where Foamy went off the rails and I think the trouble starts, is where Foamy lays a great deal of the blame and accusation, which has become tiring and irratating to everyone else who isn't jumping up and down and screaming "SAY MERRY CHRISTMAS!SAY MERRY CHRISTMAS!"

Like you have said, most of us athiests where happily trotting along not giving a shit, taking the day off work and the excuse to spike the egg nog and minding our own business when the shrill "War on Christmas" people started accusing us of all kinds of crazy crap. And then to have Foamy (who I never really find funny, mostly because he's rants seem consistantly as ill considered as this one) join in the chorus, accusing us of trying to get rid of even Santa (I started seeing Santa shit in July...if it started any earlier it would be late...I don't know how anyone with eyes can think that Christmas is being minimized), regardless of its intent it was just as irratating to have a cartoon do it as it is to have Bill O'Rielly do it.

Having just looked through the thread, and having seen the Foamy cartoon earlier, that would be my assessment of what went wrong. It's being yelled at by the cartoon for a fight that is made up when the people who made it up got off easy. Like you said, it gets tiring.

And that's different to the UK, where if she tried to excercise Royal Perogative without the advice and recomendation of the Prime Minister she'd be overuled by Parliament, how exactly?

Well, I guess to start Canada has a Constitution, as well as a Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, this is a profound difference between the UK and Canada, those two documents supersede everything , including Parliament, unless a leader was ever elected and decided to use sec. 33 (the not with-standing clause) however that would pretty much end his/her career.

Cannot think of a name - Yeah, I can't argue with that. I think you're pretty much on the money (No pun intended) :p

It really was meant to be light hearted, to show how stupid it has become.. nothing more, nothing less.

Christmas hasn't just been about 'Christ' for plenty of people for a long time now ...by the way, does anyone know when the term X-mas was coined? And why?

I had a letter to the editor published on this question in the Everett (WA) Herald a couple of years ago. Someone wrote in complaining that "Xmas" was "taking the Christ out of Christmas". It does no such thing. The letter writer even suggested using "Cmas" instead. I can't find the text of my original letter because I'm on vacation and not at my home computer, but I'll try to precis it here.

Basically, the X of Xmas was short for "Christ" because in Greek, Christ's name is spelled with the Greek "chi", which is the English X (and pronounced like you're hacking up a hairball followed by an "ee" sound). As Bibles and Epistles and the like began to be written, Christ's name was used a lot. Back then, ink was expensive and not even a thousandth as widely available as it is now. As a result, shortcuts were taken. Lots of folks' names were shortened or abbreviated (Geo. = George, Wm. = William, etc.), and Christ was no exception. So X by itself stood for Christ (and even kinda resembles a cross, too for those into symbolism), and Xmas became the shorthand for Christmas.

For the letter writer to have suggested "Cmas" was not just dumb, but historically and orthographically incorrect. Christ couldn't have spelled his own name with a C (had he known Greek), as it was "Christos" or, in approximated Greek characters, "Xristos".

So Xmas is far from sacrilegious. It is, in fact, efficient.

Cannot think of a name - Yeah, I can't argue with that. I think you're pretty much on the money (No pun intended) :p

It really was meant to be light hearted, to show how stupid it has become.. nothing more, nothing less.
I understand, but to sit for two minutes and have a cartoon lay it in our lap when it's a made up controversy of the "SAY MERRY CHRISTMAS" crowd just gets the hackles up more than anything else. Especially since the drum has been beat here over and over, with us having to constantly go, "Look, it's not us who's all panty-in-a-bunch about what tellers wish us when we buy shit. Why is this our fault?" over and over.

Anyway, sorry it went all wrong. This is part of why I don't like Foamy, though. Everytime I've seen his cartoons it seems as ill concieved as this. But, to each thier own.

Well, I guess to start Canada has a Constitution, as well as a Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, this is a profound difference between the UK and Canada, those two documents supersede everything , including Parliament, unless a leader was ever elected and decided to use sec. 33 (the not with-standing clause) however that would pretty much end his/her career.

The UK has a constitution too. It just doesn't have a charter.

Anyway, the point is that the Queen didn't have any power over Canada even before the 1982 act. Nor does she have any power in England. She does however still excerise Royal Perogative in Canada, for example dissolving Parliament through the GG.

And I am sure, like the UK, there are still some grey areas, involving emergency powers. (At least according to the Canadian Parliament's website) So she is more than a mere titular figurehead. She just, as a practical matter lacks any real political power.

What pisses me off is the fact that there is a tree at the White House called the "Holiday Tree".

This is not true. The White House calls it a Christmas Tree http://www.whitehouse.gov/president/holiday/whtree/#
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005/12/20051201-7.html

No, it was actually an attempt to calm the situation. I have no axe to grind. Yes, Foamy is funny, that was all I was really going for. As for Sin, she is who she is. I personally prefer not to grandstand. But to each their own.

I suppose comparing me to Eut really didn't help the situation. I have said sorry, I don't know what more you'd like from me?

I respect you Cat-Tribe, misguided loyalty though is not always the right way to go either. I have been here long before you and long before Sin, I only wished to stop the arguing.. if that means you see me as taking my marbles and going home, so be it. I'd rather do that anyway then start some stupid back and forth argument that neither would hurt nor help.

I post very seldom as of late, this is not by chance, there is a reason for it. You stick around as long as I have, you might (if you haven't already) understand what I mean.

Merry Christmas Cat-Tribe. :)

I believe I understand what happened and most of my posts critical of you were posted before I read your apology in Moderation.

NS can be very tiring at times. I have great respect for both you and Sinuhue, so I was saddened to see you two fight. Hopefully, this will just pass over.

(And, although he is funny, I still think Foamy is full of shit. ;) )

Merry Christmas Steph :)

I say we have a war on the tree quite reviving old pagen nores rituals and slaping new names to it chach the devil and his hidden idols out of our churches Burn them all and shut up right wing nut jobs about a war on christmas.

This is not true. The White House calls it a Christmas Tree http://www.whitehouse.gov/president/holiday/whtree/#
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005/12/20051201-7.html

The controversy is true (but it is again, this year, called a Christmas tree), you linked to the wrong trees. The controversy is about the outdoor capital tree. Not the indoor white house tree nor the national tree.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/csm/20051216/cm_csm/qmerry_1

http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/12/09/capitolchristmastree.ap/index.html?section=cnn_latest

"foamy" has been blocked by Sonicwall as being on a 'mature/adult content' site. Could you maybe post the rant?La de da... Foamy mirror site (http://foamy.arthemys.net/Foamy.html)...

I believe I understand what happened and most of my posts critical of you were posted before I read your apology in Moderation.

NS can be very tiring at times. I have great respect for both you and Sinuhue, so I was saddened to see you two fight. Hopefully, this will just pass over.

(And, although he is funny, I still think Foamy is full of shit. ;) )

Merry Christmas Steph :)

I tend to agree here. While I don't really know the relationship between the two girls, I think that perhaps it was a misunderstanding too. I've read some of Stephistan's posts since I've been here. Always a level head and she does know what she's talking about. I think Sinuhue seems nice as well. I think perhaps Stephistan doesn't take her as serious because of some of her posts in the (shall we say, less then intelligent threads) I can understand that. I also understand that Sinuhue enjoys the mindless stuff too. That's okay as well. I just think Stephistan puts a high ethical quality on people that is perhaps not always realistic. However, in this case I have to give the high ground to Stephitan. She kept her cool and was big enough to discuss it instead of running to moderation. I actually can't ever recall her not taking care of her own problems, I can't think of a thread I've ever seen by her in moderation.

I suppose some have thicker skins then others as she said in her posts in moderation. I do hope these two can work it out. From what I've read on the forums from both, they seem to be on basically the same side. The Eut comment was a low blow to Stephistan, that I can understand. I suspect she reacted to it. I might of too.

I still say kudos to Stephistan for being level headed and taking the step back that needed to be taken. I believe her, I believe she posted this for a laugh. I've read other posts by her and she is highly intelligent. I'm sure she didn't mean to cause all this fuss.

Ok.. Anybody who thinks Christmas should not be celebrated clearly should not celebrate New Years Eve/Day.Both have religous origins

Ok.. Anybody who thinks Christmas should not be celebrated clearly should not celebrate New Years Eve/Day.Both have religous origins
How the hell has new years eve got religious connatations, is singing old lang sine a christian thing? It may have religious basis (I balive it was established by the gregorian calander) which to be fair was made by a pope, however the gregorian Calander was based upon the Ceaserian Calander, devised by Julius Ceaser.

As an Athiest i celebrate Christmas, not in a religious way but in a secular way, I have a tree (A pagan tredition) and I have presents, and I have a santa. Yes many of these treeditions are based on religion, but other relgions.

And you could say Christmas is a pagan festable anyway as Christs birthday was not in winter and was moved there by Emporer Consitine (Please correct me if I'm wrong with my facts here) to make Christianity more acceptable to the pagan romans. I balive that it coincides with the Pagan festable of the Brith of Jupiter, there god.

Now, while I make no secret of the fact that I'm an atheist, I'm still sick & tired of this whole idea that there is some how a war on Christmas, maybe there is, maybe there isn't. I tend to believe there isn't.

Although what I do believe is that we have gone over the PC cliff on this one.

So, to sum up my thoughts on the whole thing, I shall let "Foamy" say how I pretty much feel about it.

As Told By My Pal Foamy! (http://www.illwillpress.com/xmas.html)

Oh and btw, Merry Christmas!

Peace - Stephanie.

While there isn't a "war on Christmas", there is a wave of political correctness in the US that seems to imply that the word "Christmas" is unacceptable at work, at school, and in marketing. And while not a majority wave yet, it has certainly gained momentum over the years, and is a point of contention in some localities in the US>

I liked the way that BBC World Update ended their broadcast today : "Happy Christmas".

Not the usual "Happy Holidays" that we hear on news stations in the States.

Those who are offended by "Christmas" should not accept any Christmas presents and work during the Xmas holidays. Of course their kids get nothing as well. This PC business is getting out of hand.

Those who are offended by "Christmas" should not accept any Christmas presents and work during the Xmas holidays. Of course their kids get nothing as well. This PC business is getting out of hand.
Especially when the PC boogieman is used where it doesn't exist...

Now, while I make no secret of the fact that I'm an atheist, I'm still sick & tired of this whole idea that there is some how a war on Christmas, maybe there is, maybe there isn't. I tend to believe there isn't.

Although what I do believe is that we have gone over the PC cliff on this one.

So, to sum up my thoughts on the whole thing, I shall let "Foamy" say how I pretty much feel about it.

As Told By My Pal Foamy! (http://www.illwillpress.com/xmas.html)

Oh and btw, Merry Christmas!

Peace - Stephanie.
Foamy compels agreement.

If you're waging war on Christmas you're a grinch, or at least a scrooge.

While there isn't a "war on Christmas", there is a wave of political correctness in the US that seems to imply that the word "Christmas" is unacceptable at work, at school, and in marketing. And while not a majority wave yet, it has certainly gained momentum over the years, and is a point of contention in some localities in the US>

I liked the way that BBC World Update ended their broadcast today : "Happy Christmas".

Not the usual "Happy Holidays" that we hear on news stations in the States.
Are you guys getting the same television I am? I saw Christmas in fucking July-what planet are you living on that you think it's being ignored?

Isn't Christmas a holiday? Isn't New Years the following week, thus making it holidays? Take the bug out of your ass people, and quit pretending that this is the athiests or liberals-you're the ones who got panty-in-a-bunch about what people choose to say, quit erecting the PC boogieman. This is stupid, and Foamy should feel like an ass for being fished in.

Foamy compels agreement.

If you're waging war on Christmas you're a grinch, or at least a scrooge.
Take it up with the Bill O'Rielly crowd, it's their deal. Foamy just got suckered.

*scans through topic*

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,17454097-421,00.html

Uh-huh.

I never post here but this is something that's struck a foul tone with me. When I was little, we had a blizzard right before Christmas every year, a tree in every house, a turkey in every oven and a smile on every kidy's face. I was raised Jewish, and we celebrated Christmas. Why? Because it has become so ingrained in our culture that we can't help but do it. Nowadays I see people just caring about gifts on Christmas and arguing over how to celebrate it. We put a tree in our living room and a little paper decoration of Santa in our front window along with a few lights. I've got a neighbor whose house looks like it is daytime 24/7 and he got a second power line installed just to support his Christmas lights. Everyone celebrates this holiday in different ways, just let them do it, I say. I see the youngest kids not believing in Santa and I think that it has got to be one of the saddest things in the world. A holiday that in our day and age is supposed to bring joy and happiness to people worldwide, one that has stopped wars and brought together enemies, is being forgotten. Is it under attack? Maybe, maybe not. It is losing some of its magic over us irregardless, which is something that we shouldn't let happen.


And you could say Christmas is a pagan festable anyway as Christs birthday was not in winter and was moved there by Emporer Consitine (Please correct me if I'm wrong with my facts here) to make Christianity more acceptable to the pagan romans. I balive that it coincides with the Pagan festable of the Brith of Jupiter, there god.

The tree is Yggdrasil (sp?), the world tree. It is the celebration of the birth of the sun god, which I don't think was Jupiter (since he was the Roman king of the gods, with Helios being the Roman sun god), and since we're talking about Pagan gods (I don't think the Roman gods applied) I think that that would make it Sol.

I'll stand by for now, but when it becomes the War on Presents then the shit will be hitting the fan,

hahaha seconded
ps fuck fox news and bill o'riley
i hate rich white people

The tree is Yggdrasil (sp?), the world tree. It is the celebration of the birth of the sun god, which I don't think was Jupiter (since he was the Roman king of the gods, with Helios being the Roman sun god), and since we're talking about Pagan gods (I don't think the Roman gods applied) I think that that would make it Sol.
Thanks for correcting me.

The war on Christmas

http://dishway.blogspot.com/

a how to...

If there is a war going on this Christmas, it's happening on the opposite side of what's being claimed. The public demonstrations and protests aren't against the celebration of Christmas, though some individuals may be against having it as public as it is. The real war is against those who choose not to celebrate it so openly. There was a news story about how people protested outside of WalMart because of their "Happy Holidays" signs, and I know people who refuse to go to certain resturants because they are not decorated for Christmas. Regardless of your beliefs, that's just rediculous.

La de da... Foamy mirror site (http://foamy.arthemys.net/Foamy.html)...Gracias Senor Mod :D

As an Athiest i celebrate Christmas, not in a religious way but in a secular way, I have a tree (A pagan tredition) and I have presents, and I have a santa. Yes many of these treeditions are based on religion, but other relgions. Sthep and other Atheists are not all-out Anti-Christmas.. Good to hear that.

Steph, thx for the thread.

So here is my 2 questions for the other atheists and for the Muslims/Jews/etc

Should Walmart/Traget/BigCorp ban the use of the words "Merry Christmas" by employees?

Should Gov supervisors ban the use of these Words by employees?

iLock pending Moderator review.

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation
"Think about it for a moment."
NationStates Game Moderator

iUnlock. I expect the remainder of this discussion to stay on-topic and civil.

No personal attacks against other NationStates players for any reason.

--The Modified Democratic States of Cogitation
"Think about it for a moment."
NationStates Game Moderator

The tree is Yggdrasil (sp?), the world tree. It is the celebration of the birth of the sun god, which I don't think was Jupiter (since he was the Roman king of the gods, with Helios being the Roman sun god), and since we're talking about Pagan gods (I don't think the Roman gods applied) I think that that would make it Sol.

Correct the tree is all bassed on the nordic myths and traditions. Originaly the tree was a yew which is a very close relative of the pines that we use. There is some disagreement here how ever aperently in some places the tree was actualy and ash tree. either way pine trees were never anywere close to Isrile or for that matter rome so how did it become a part of our celebrations. it all has to due with some catholic priest planing on ways to convert the norse. they took their symboles and changed them and tweeked them to thei own liking. The sad thing is that my priest has belived all of these lies and refuses to listen to the facts.

Foamy...*sigh*...some people are so easily amused.

Personnaly I (as a Christian) do not think that Target and the other assorted stores had any intention of waging a war on Christmas. I think they just didn't want to offend anyone that does not totally belive in Christmas or celebrate it. If Target was going to wage war on Christmas you wonder why they carried an assortment of items practically screaming out Christmas and Love Jesus on them. All Target and other stores did was start one, yes you did you here it correctly, one addvertisment proclaiming Happy Holidays.


Oh my Jesus, Target just said "Happy Holidays" instead of "Happy Christmas"! It is an attack on Christmas and the values that we stand by! They are really Satanists in disguise proclaiming Satan's words of Happy Holidays!

Come on, it is almost as bad as them claiming that Harry Potter is just as bad as Satan's Bible, sorry fellas, Harrpy Potter is just bad to read thats all.

PS: Sweet Kirby Dance

. Just don't complain if the Jews decide your kids should be forced to play the draedle and eat blintzes next week.

I'm not even Jewish and I want to play some draedle.

When you say Merry Christmas, are you reported to the authorities? No? Good.
If you say Merry Christmas and I say Happy Holidays and you call me an asshole, are you being a good Christian? No? Bad.
Are you a teacher telling my kid that Jesus was born on Christmas and that if he's very good, Jesus will come down his chimney with a sack of presents? Yes? Bad teacher.
It's very easy. And it's only a war if someone gets their eye shot out.
*Goes to the store to get a Red Rider BB gun*

I have two small children.. and I was also a child once, all I'm trying to say is, get over it. This PC shit has gone too far. Do I think that singing "Silent Night" is going to turn my kids into religious freaks? NO! I believe no such thing. The message is leave Christmas alone. Let the kids believe in Santa and if your neighbour has a nativity scene on their front lawn, let them be, I don't believe in it.. but if they do, let them do whatever the hell they want to THEIR property... It's just gotten stupid at this point. Let people enjoy Christmas however they want.. I personally will be having a Santa type Christmas, others may have some religion in their Christmas, who cares?

As a liberal I *DO* believe that we should respect everyone's beliefs... so this was more for the "PC" crowd who some how are offended by EVERYTHING!
I'm always hearing about this "PC" crowd, but I've never actually met any of them. Strange.

I agree, and they should work on that separation. But they don't have the right to change Christmas. It's not their religion, not their choice.
Since when is Christmas about materialism? Since when is Christmas about boycotts? Who's changing Christmas?

*assembles the LGBT Army to attack Christmas*

Ready your PC bullshit guys! We're going in.

*assembles the LGBT Army to attack Christmas*

Ready your PC bullshit guys! We're going in.
What if we just want to celebrate Festivus instead?:p

What if we just want to celebrate Festivus instead?:p

Very good as that is part of the war on Christmas. A very deadly part! *rubs hands together menacingly* Excellent

In 1647 the English Parliament abolished Christmas.
<.< >.> (http://home.bitworks.co.nz/trivia/human.htm)

<.< >.> (http://home.bitworks.co.nz/trivia/human.htm)


Albert Einstein was once offered the Presidency of Israel. He declined saying he had no head for problems.

omg that's not true is it?

omg that's not true is it?
Funny if it is.