NationStates Jolt Archive

Microsoft may face daily EU fine

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4552214.stm

*Applauds*

Microsoft may get a daily $2.4m fine for the duration of their effective software monopoly.

It may seem unfair, but a monoculture breeds security threats, and in this crazy world of ours, any stand against this is reasonable.

You got to be fucking kidding me.

Grains of good are so few and far between when it comes to the EU, I guess I shall have to savour this for quite a while.

Of course this is the same EU that renegned of the promise about agricultural subsidies, and still disorts the Banana trade despite WTO panel findings.

So it has nothing to do with the free market after all, and everything to do with Eurocentrism.

Also, I laugh at them for not knowing about linux.

Of course this is the same EU that renegned of the promise about agricultural subsidies, and still disorts the Banana trade despite WTO panel findings.

So it has nothing to do with the free market after all, and everything to do with Eurocentrism.

Also, I laugh at them for not knowing about linux.
Amen.

Yep. Read it and weep. $876m, every year, from Seattle to Brussels. Just because we can.

Ooh yeah. :D

Begun the flame war has!

Edit: There have been 5 posts between the time I read and replied in this thread :D

Harhar! That stupid Yankee shouldn't try again to mess with us! :sniper:
This shocked look on his face alone is priceless! :D
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41149000/jpg/_41149058_msoftgates_abodp.jpg

Yep. Read it and weep. $876m, every year, from Seattle to Brussels. Just because we can.

Ooh yeah. :D

First, it's a NTB. So its breaking international law. Like I said, linux. Secondly, what are you going to do if microsoft just decides to stop selling in Europe and pulls everyones license? All the EU countries signed onto TRIPS. So you couldn't continue to run it.

what are you going to do if microsoft just decides to stop selling in Europe and pulls everyones license?

Yeah...MS is going to pull out of Europe, and lose millions in future sales.

Yeah.

Yeah...MS is going to pull out of Europe, and lose millions in future sales.

Yeah.

Look at the size of the fines. It may not be worth it to them.

Yeah...MS is going to pull out of Europe, and lose millions in future sales.

Yeah.
Europe will be ass-raped as well.

Look at the size of the fines. It may not be worth it to them.

Microsoft has five weeks to provide improved documentation before the daily penalties are imposed.

The fines aren't definite.

The fines aren't definite.

All I am saying is that if the EU continues to extort money this way, it will become unprofitable to sell in the EU and they'll stop.

Europe will be ass-raped as well.

Amen. They don't seem to realize that the hardware and software is developed in tandem. And because they don't design any hardware either, they'll just fall further and further behind.

All I am saying is that if the EU continues to extort money this way, it will become unprofitable to sell in the EU and they'll stop.

How ever shall we lament the loss of Microsoft? Let me count the ways... :rolleyes:

Extort? I don't think you're grasping why they are going to fine them.

They're not doing it just to piss people off.

Brussels said the software giant had failed to supply adequate information about its server programs.

Edit: This is as far as I'm contributing to this thread. We all know this is going to turn into one huge flamewar, and I'm sick of the ignorance and arrogance on both sides that comes from it.

Yeah...MS is going to pull out of Europe
That would be sweeeeeeet! I'd love to see Bill skeet in their hypocritical faces. :D

How ever shall we lament the loss of Microsoft? Let me count the ways... :rolleyes:

I suppose you use Finux. :rolleyes: On a scandanavian laptop.

I don't like a lot of the shit the EU throws at us, but it's stuff like this that makes me think that they're not so bad after all. British governments take their orders from the boardrooms, they would never have the spine to stand up to big business and do what's best for the people. So the EU's anti-monopoly regulations are always welcome.

Extort? I don't think you're grasping why they are going to fine them.

They're not doing it just to piss people off.


Microsoft had already:

1. Paid one of the biggest fines to brussels in EU history.

2. Shipped a new version of windows to comply with a recent brussels ruling.

3. Released documentation about this very issue.

Now it's more of the same. Typical EU petty nonsense.

Still what can you expect from an organization that regularly flouts its international commitments.

This is pretty hypocritical of the EU, especially since they have no qualms about propping up European farmers (and Airbus) and giving their sugar growers a ridiculous advantage over poor producers through monstrous amounts of subsidies. They only seem to care about competition when it could hurt them.

Still, they did clear the Oracle-Siebel merger, so they aren't totally horrible.

uhh! The americans are nervous, so funny!

Anyway, I applaud this measure. I don't hate microsoft, but the fact is that their dominant position effectively impedes competition, and thus must be reduced.

uhh! The americans are nervous, so funny!

Anyway, I applaud this measure. I don't hate microsoft, but the fact is that their dominant position effectively impedes competition, and thus must be reduced.
What do we have to be nervous? I'm not a stockholder. :confused:

I suppose you use Finux. :rolleyes: On a scandanavian laptop.

Oh, my laptop is German, at least I'd like to think. Probably made in China or somewhere else, though. I've run several different OS's on it, by the by.

And if you think Microsoft would part from such a huge market as the European one and leave such a big void to be filled by the competition, which would leap at the opportunity to demonstrate its viability and thus threaten Microsoft's standing in other markets, you've got another thing coming. They'll half-assedly comply like they've done in the past gaining a pragmatic victory, while the EU will claim the moral one and the monopoly will remain.

Alas.

uhh! The americans are nervous, so funny!

Anyway, I applaud this measure. I don't hate microsoft, but the fact is that their dominant position effectively impedes competition, and thus must be reduced.

People in the EU do know that there are alternatives to microsoft, right?

What do we have to be nervous? I'm not a stockholder. :confused:

Many in america seem nervous at the idea of a EU that actually challenges the US and its corporations.

Oh, my laptop is German, at least I'd like to think. Probably made in China or somewhere else, though. I've run several different OS's on it, by the by.

And if you think Microsoft would part from such a huge market as the European one and leave such a big void to be filled by the competition, which would leap at the opportunity to demonstrate its viability and thus threaten Microsoft's standing in other markets, you've got another thing coming. They'll half-assedly comply like they've done in the past gaining a pragmatic victory, while the EU will claim the moral one and the monopoly will remain.

Alas.

I doubt the CPU is german. And I bet you are running an american OS.

I don't really care if you want to believe that the EU will develop some uber-smashing OS. It probably won't. It's a a competitive disadvantage because little of the hardware is designed there, and in any case, all the talented programmers come here for the better wages.

Some countries are better at some things than others. Britian will always make the best shirts, and denmark has Ikea.

denmark has Ikea.

I sense an imminent war around this.. :p

What do we have to be nervous? I'm not a stockholder. :confused:
I've always wondered why there are so many people queuing up to defend microsoft whenever they're in trouble with the EU. It's not like they're going to see a penny of microsoft's profits.

People in the EU do know that there are alternatives to microsoft, right?I'd have to say that they do, considering that Munich City council switched over to Linux a while back.

I doubt the CPU is german.

As I said, it's probably made in China or something. Not that Microsoft makes CPUs, you know.

And I bet you are running an american OS.

At the moment, it's a South-African one, but, as I said, it's probably multinational, since globalisation really doesn't care about boundaries in the creative sense.

I don't really care if you want to believe that the EU will develop some uber-smashing OS. It probably won't. It's a a competitive disadvantage because little of the hardware is designed there, and in any case, all the talented programmers come here for the better wages.

Heh. My, my, this is a prime example of misdirected nationalism.

Thinking that hardware companies, or other software companies, would flee a market which after the withdrawal of Microsoft would be ripe for the picking is just daft.

Thinking Microsoft would abandon such a market in the first place is dafter.

Some countries are better at some things than others. Britian will always make the best shirts, and denmark has Ikea.

Ikea is originally Swedish. But, again, that globalisation thing kinda, sorta means that it's a multinational company. And those shirts are probably made in some former British colony.

I guess no one wants to address the EU's suppression of the free market...

I guess no one wants to address the EU's suppression of the free market...

Probably because this isn't a thread about it.

Probably because this isn't a thread about it.

True, but the attempt to portray the EU as a defender of free competition is inaccurate. They're as bad as the US government in that regard.

This is such a load of shit, Microsoft has done everything the EU has asked, paying the largest fine in history. And rebundled windows. And provided infomation about windows server programs.

The EU is just extorting money from microsoft, who the hell cares if Microsoft leaves the EU and pulls the plug? When they switched to linux and cant properly run 80% of the software in the world, then they'll just come crying back.

True, but the attempt to portray the EU as a defender of free competition is inaccurate. They're as bad as the US government in that regard.

Hence the humour in the title.

I doubt the CPU is german. And I bet you are running an american OS.

I don't really care if you want to believe that the EU will develop some uber-smashing OS. It probably won't. It's a a competitive disadvantage because little of the hardware is designed there, and in any case, all the talented programmers come here for the better wages.

Some countries are better at some things than others. Britian will always make the best shirts, and denmark has Ikea.
Unfortunately this post just helps to underline a common viewpoint that Ameriacans have very little awareness of what goes on outside their borders.

And Ikea is certainly NOT Danish, thank you very much! Their furniture is made from Lego ;)

I've always wondered why there are so many people queuing up to defend microsoft whenever they're in trouble with the EU. It's not like they're going to see a penny of microsoft's profits.
I don't think people are exactly lining up to defend MS. But I do think some people here are a bit skeptical of the claims made as to the altruistic intentions of the EU. I'm far from nationalist, but the obvious is still just that.
If we were talking about a similar situation with the US, there'd be a considerable amount of posts pointing out our trasparent hypocrisy on such matters. Anyone who's done their homework knows it doesn't take much to point out the trait on either side.
I see plenty of honesty among Americans concerning their gov's flubs, but I'm just seeing overenthusiastic cheerleading when the EU is involved here.
Let's have a bit of balance, and discuss the broader implications of the situation without the chest-thumping. EU hypocrisy in general is too ignored a subject here.
let's let that cat out of the bag... positive and negative.

Unfortunately this post just helps to underline a common viewpoint that Ameriacans have very little awareness of what goes on outside their borders.

And Ikea is certainly NOT Danish, thank you very much! Their furniture is made from Lego ;)

Ikea is Swedish.

"
introduction
It's been six decades since IKEA began in a small farming village in Sweden. This is a history of how IKEA went from the woods of southern Sweden to twenty-nine countries around the world."

http://www.ikea.com/ms/en_US/about_ikea/timeline/intro.html

I guess no one wants to address the EU's suppression of the free market...
The EU does the same thing that the US Competition Watchdog does, simply because it is one common market.

I don't know about the specifics of the case, but it's not the first time Microsoft has been convicted of uncompetitive behaviour - it fits their profile.

Ultimately, this is not that big a deal, and Microsoft will do whatever it can to not have to pay those fines, even if that means publishing some information they wuldn't otherwise have.

Of course, if people don't like the EU anyways, this is a good reason to continue the bashing...

That would be sweeeeeeet! I'd love to see Bill skeet in their hypocritical faces. :D
Not an image I needed right before eating dinner.

Ikea is Swedish.

"
introduction
It's been six decades since IKEA began in a small farming village in Sweden. This is a history of how IKEA went from the woods of southern Sweden to twenty-nine countries around the world."

http://www.ikea.com/ms/en_US/about_ikea/timeline/intro.html
Exactly! Well done. I mean it's not as if they make it obvious by painting their warehouses blue and yellow is it? :)

Not an image I needed right before eating dinner.
Shit, I'd never tune into NS before a meal for that reason. :D

Heh. My, my, this is a prime example of misdirected nationalism.

It has nothing to do with nationalism. Hardware companies and software companies (like intel and microsoft), develop shit together. The US has a competitive advantage because most of the CPUs &c. are designed here. That's all.

*shrug* Most software comes from the US. The talent pool is here. The R&D is here. The opportunities are here. Europe doesn't have that, and it would be near impossible to build from scratch at this point.


Thinking that hardware companies, or other software companies, would flee a market which after the withdrawal of Microsoft would be ripe for the picking is just daft.


If the EU fines microsoft until it is unprofitable, then yes, micrsoft will flee. Hardware companies won't. They'll keep on making the CPUs for your german laptop.

Oh, yah, and the best shirts are still made in the UK, not former colonies.

Unfortunately this post just helps to underline a common viewpoint that Ameriacans have very little awareness of what goes on outside their borders.

And Ikea is certainly NOT Danish, thank you very much! Their furniture is made from Lego ;)

IKEA is headquartered in Denmark. It was started by swedes, but it is not a swedish company.

Draw your own conclusions about how well informed you are.

*shrug* Most software comes from the US. The talent pool is here. The R&D is here. The opportunities are here. Europe doesn't have that, and it would be near impossible to build from scratch at this point.

Not entirely though. There are a number of large software manufacturers in Europe. They make relatively specialised business software, so they're not that well-known with people not in the business, but they are important and make big bucks nonetheless.

A prime example would be SAP (http://www.sap.com/index.epx).

IKEA is headquartered in Denmark. It was started by swedes, but it is not a swedish company.

Draw your own conclusions about how well informed you are.
Really? I don't think I'm alone in saying that they've succeeded in their marketing if they were trying to convince us that they are a very Swedish company.
Cool trivia.

Really? I don't think I'm alone in saying that they've succeeded in their marketing if they were trying to convince us that they are a very Swedish company.
Cool trivia.
a) They are a Franchise Company. As such, there can be Ikeas everywhere.

b) It was started in Sweden, according to their website (http://www.ikea.com/ms/en_US/about_ikea/timeline/intro.html), the first warehouse was in Älmhuldt (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%84lmhult).

c) Wiki still lists that as its location, but apparently its actually Dutch people who own the franchise, not Danes.

a) They are a Franchise Company. As such, there can be Ikeas everywhere.

b) It was started in Sweden, according to their website (http://www.ikea.com/ms/en_US/about_ikea/timeline/intro.html), the first warehouse was in Älmhuldt (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%84lmhult).

c) Wiki still lists that as its location, but apparently its actually Dutch people who own the franchise, not Danes.
They do all this Dutch Danish stuff for tax reasons. It's the same reason Ingvar Kamprad lives in Switzerland rather than Sweden. Although, he was on Swedish television news the other day visiting his hometown here. He's famous for being a cheapskate... as they filmed him for the news report, for some reason (known only to TV4) they showed him walking around the supermarket.. he picked something up (something quite normal like a loaf of bread or something, I don't recall) and promptly put it back on the shelf saying it was too expensive (for the world's 2nd richest man!).

However, Ikea was founded here and still very heavily trades on its 'Swedishness.' Every single one of their products is stamped 'Design and Quality of Sweden'. Their logo is yellow and blue. Their shops have a Swedish flag outside them whichever land they are in. Even the product names are left in Swedish outside of Sweden. Your original remark was:

Some countries are better at some things than others. Britian will always make the best shirts, and denmark has Ikea.

So, I assumed you were referring to Sweden's ability to produce good designs in relation to Ikea. Clearly this element of the company is still very much Swedish.

So, I assumed you were referring to Sweden's ability to produce good designs in relation to Ikea. Clearly this element of the company is still very much Swedish.
I don't think I ever said such a thing...:confused:

I don't think I ever said such a thing...:confused:
So what were you implying then in your remark about Britain always making the best shirts and Denmark has Ikea? Sorry if I misunderstood, please clarify.

a) They are a Franchise Company. As such, there can be Ikeas everywhere.

b) It was started in Sweden, according to their website (http://www.ikea.com/ms/en_US/about_ikea/timeline/intro.html), the first warehouse was in Älmhuldt (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%84lmhult).

c) Wiki still lists that as its location, but apparently its actually Dutch people who own the franchise, not Danes.
Dammit, I thought I had the edge on an interesting, but obscure Jeopardy question should it ever come up. Thanks for clarifying, Neo-L.

So what were you implying then in your remark about Britain always making the best shirts and Denmark has Ikea? Sorry if I misunderstood, please clarify.
Some countries are better at some things than others. Britian will always make the best shirts, and denmark has Ikea.
It was him who said it, not me. :D

I just did some research and found that apparently the company's owners live in the Netherlands, and you pointed out the reason.
To me, Ikea will always be Swedish, and I think that's the way they understand themselves too.

So what were you implying then in your remark about Britain always making the best shirts and Denmark has Ikea? Sorry if I misunderstood, please clarify.
I take it you don't like his comments on their international and domestic imports?:confused:

It was him who said it, not me. :D

I just did some research and found that apparently the company's owners live in the Netherlands, and you pointed out the reason.
To me, Ikea will always be Swedish, and I think that's the way they understand themselves too.
Oops :rolleyes: So sorry, I think I am going (gone?) mad.

This may demonstrate why it's not good to go on NationStates at 02.00 during the Christmas drinking season!

Nevertheless, I do hope he answers, as I am curious!

Apologies again!

I can't do anything correctly tonight! Duplicate post
Try not having any editorial privelages at all. :p

Of course this is the same EU that renegned of the promise about agricultural subsidies, and still disorts the Banana trade despite WTO panel findings.

So it has nothing to do with the free market after all, and everything to do with Eurocentrism.

Also, I laugh at them for not knowing about linux.

You whacked that nail on the head!

BTW: I am typing this on an Apple...an excellent alternative.