NationStates Jolt Archive

It looks like the UK is far ahead of every other country in terms of the number of cameras everywhere. Already, it looks like their major city centers are covered in cameras, ostensibly to track the movements of terrorists.

Looks like they're taking it a step further. Rather ambitious, if you ask me, but it's not as geographically large as some nations, so it's feasible.

Do you in the UK see any of this monitoring from door to door as a problem?

http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/transport/article334686.ece

Britain is to become the first country in the world where the movements of all vehicles on the roads are recorded. A new national surveillance system will hold the records for at least two years.

Using a network of cameras that can automatically read every passing number plate, the plan is to build a huge database of vehicle movements so that the police and security services can analyse any journey a driver has made over several years.

The network will incorporate thousands of existing CCTV cameras which are being converted to read number plates automatically night and day to provide 24/7 coverage of all motorways and main roads, as well as towns, cities, ports and petrol-station forecourts.

By next March a central database installed alongside the Police National Computer in Hendon, north London, will store the details of 35 million number-plate "reads" per day. These will include time, date and precise location, with camera sites monitored by global positioning satellites.

Britain is nowhere near to living up to Orwell's vision. If it were you wouldnt be able to make this thread in the first place.

Also note how it did nothing to prevent the London Bombings...

It looks like the UK is far ahead of every other country in terms of the number of cameras everywhere. Already, it looks like their major city centers are covered in cameras, ostensibly to track the movements of terrorists.

Looks like they're taking it a step further. Rather ambitious, if you ask me, but it's not as geographically large as some nations, so it's feasible.

Do you in the UK see any of this monitoring from door to door as a problem?

http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/transport/article334686.ece

Not really... It's non-intrusive, an extension of a network of informants. So they can track a car better, good deal... The actual concern is how do you ensure they're tracking the 'right' people, which needs a slightly different, more complicated answer. I'm underqualified there - anyone know a policeman out there?

We need a fucking constitution that says something about inalieable rights to privacy in it. I don't want the police knowing where I'm going, where I am etc. It isn't their place to know.

Also note how it did nothing to prevent the London Bombings...
It hasn't been implemented yet.

We need a fucking constitution that says something about inalieable rights to privacy in it. I don't want the police knowing where I'm going, where I am etc. It isn't their place to know.

Why do you think they'll be interested in you?

You have to question their procedures and episomology, not their methods. In terms of catching people, this could be a great thing. How do you make sure they're using it responsibly while letting them do their job? What oversight measures do you use? I've no problem with the proposed system, just would want to know how they'd 'target' a suspect.

Been on the cards for a while. Major force behind this is MI5.

"Mr Whiteley said MI5 will also use the database. "Clearly there are values for this in counter-terrorism," he said.

"The security services will use it for purposes that I frankly don't have access to. It's part of public protection. If the security services did not have access to this, we'd be negligent."

The terrorists are coming *hides under bed*

Well at least we will know where a suicide bomber has been before he blows himself up!

We need a fucking constitution that says something about inalieable rights to privacy in it. I don't want the police knowing where I'm going, where I am etc. It isn't their place to know.

In public, anyone can at any time know where you are.

I do see your point, though. Government monitoring just bugs me.:rolleyes:

Elgesh']Why do you think they'll be interested in you?
Because I break the law. Frequently. Duh :p

Anyway, I'm not suggesting they will be interested in me specifically. Yet. I'm just saying that, while this may not be their initial reason, it's one of many new laws that suggest our freedom is being sacrificed for greater control. Yes, some of the laws like this are useful - forcing people to wear seatbelts, or preventing people from driving drunk - these laws are designed only to save lives. Other, more recent ideas (like tracking our every movement, possibly forcing us to prove who we really are as if our word was piss) smack of Orwell's 'we control you because we know what's good for you' nightmare.

Also note how it did nothing to prevent the London Bombings...

but how many bombings did it prevent that you will never have known about... remember that old saying, terrorists only have to be right once... authorties have to be right everytime.

It hasn't been implemented yet.
I just meant the anti-terror legislation in general, and the cameras in particular.

As for this tracking thing...five bucks that the most interested are the traffic cops.

They've had the CCTV cameras for years, they haven't just been brought in to stop terrorism :rolleyes:

I predict 2 things:
1. Same number of terrorist attacks;
2. More cars stolen.

They've had the CCTV cameras for years, they haven't just been brought in to stop terrorism :rolleyes:

they haven't linked them all to one place so you can be tracked even into a petrol station to see how much fuel your getting

they haven't linked them all to one place so you can be tracked even into a petrol station to see how much fuel your getting
Did I say they had?

I mean the normal CCTV in city centres. We've had that for years. That's fine, very good at helping fight crime.

This new business is a step too far.

they haven't linked them all to one place so you can be tracked even into a petrol station to see how much fuel your getting
Heh. Maybe it's part of some global conspiracy. Run by OPEC.

Did I say they had?

I mean the normal CCTV in city centres. We've had that for years. That's fine, very good at helping fight crime.

This new business is a step too far.

agreed

The fact that they can hold the records for upto two years is a bit OTT methinks

How would you feel if they were tracking every mouse click you made, every site you went to, what kind of porn you like, what games you play, what movies you watch, what music you listen to, who you chat with, what you say. No one needs to know my every move. If I were to follow a stranger around all day carrying a camera and writing down everything they say and do, I would be arrested for stalking, and possibly socked by the guy I'm following. So it's okay for your goverment to stalk you? I agree there should be a right to privacy. I don't live in in London but if I did I would be in black hoody painting lenses, and I wouldn't be alone.

I predict 2 things:
1. Same number of terrorist attacks;
2. More cars stolen.

As in: This system is not at all effective on the fight against terrorism.

Bah, if they'd just had the car companies put RFID chips in every car they made you' dnever know the difference. I like this one, its better than some of the other UK CCTV networks which just look for terrorists and criminals. With this system you could find a stolen car the second it passed a camera and had its number tagged, like LoJack but you don't pay for it (Not directly anyway) and every one has it. add a little pattern recognition and these things could identify druck drivers (Or drivers other wise endangering other's lives) and tell police about the problem. It would eliminate the need for Police and Counter Espionage agents to have to perform long, difficult and dangerous car trailings, And it would allow criminals to be tracked after committing a crime. I wish america had a similiar system. Now, some of the other things te UK does with CCTV I'm leery about, but this seems to be a genuinely useful, relatively un invasive use of the technology.

How would you feel if they were tracking every mouse click you made, every site you went to, what kind of porn you like, what games you play, what movies you watch, what music you listen to, who you chat with, what you say. No one needs to know my every move. If I were to follow a stranger around all day carrying a camera and writing down everything they say and do, I would be arrested for stalking, and possibly socked by the guy I'm following. So it's okay for your goverment to stalk you? I agree there should be a right to privacy. I don't live in in London but if I did I would be in black hoody painting lenses, and I wouldn't be alone.

But they're not going to be sitting there rolling dice to decide who to watch, are they? Tracking suspects this way seems useful and reasonable. I think you need a lot of judicial oversight (with a free and independent judiciary), but I don't think it's _fundamentally_ a bad idea.

The principle's OK, they'd just have to sell me on how it'd be implemented.