NationStates Jolt Archive

Many people believe that because an old Mayan calender ends at the year 2012, the world will end in 2012.

But I had a thought. Isn't it far more likely that the Mayans just didn't have enough time to finish their calender? They could have just been peacefully writing their calender and then BAM! Spanish, right in their face! And thus, the calender ends at 2012.

Did I miss something? Is there more to the story that I'm too lazy to look up?

Many people believe that because an old Mayan calender ends at the year 2012, the world will end in 2012.

But I had a thought. Isn't it far more likely that the Mayans just didn't have enough time to finish their calender? They could have just been peacefully writing their calender and then BAM! Spanish, right in their face! And thus, the calender ends at 2012.

Did I miss something? Is there more to the story that I'm too lazy to look up?
The Mayans had a cycle of time that lasted (however long...it's probably on wikipedia if you want to find out), and it just so happens that the current cycle ends in 2012. Then another one starts. Woo! Nothing else happens. The world won't end. Maybe.

Indeed, a quick check on wiki, and it says that the Mayans had a 'Long Count', which lasts 1,872,000 days, and started on August 11th 3114 BCE on the Gregorian calendar (actually the proleptic Gregorian calendar, but that just complicates things). This ends on 21st December 2012 (the winter solstice). The Mayans were known to be obsessive about calculating their calendars, and that it lands on the winter solstice is no coincidence.

Mayans = NERDS!

The Mayans had a cycle of time that lasted (however long...it's probably on wikipedia if you want to find out), and it just so happens that the current cycle ends in 2012. Then another one starts. Woo! Nothing else happens. The world won't end. Maybe.

Yes, but I believe I remember hearing that every time a cycle ended, something catastrophic happened to the world. Like the last time one ended, the Mayans were eradicated by the Spanish.

Bear in mind I'm remembering what I heard on a historical TV program - it may not be entirely accurate.

Yes, but I believe I remember hearing that every time a cycle ended, something catastrophic happened to the world. Like the last time one ended, the Mayans were eradicated by the Spanish.

Bear in mind I'm remembering what I heard on a historical TV program - it may not be entirely accurate.
Well the last cycle would have ended before the current one began. Which was in 3114 BCE. Slightly before the Mayans were wiped out.

Well the last cycle would have ended before the current one began. Which was in 3114 BCE. Slightly before the Mayans were wiped out.

Ah. Well, there you go. Not a clue what that program was on about, then. Or maybe it was just my somewhat deranged mind. Either way, I'll shut up now. I really don't know enough about it.

It's the mayan equivalent of Y2K. That's all.

This ends on 21st December 2012 (the winter solstice). The Mayans were known to be obsessive about calculating their calendars, and that it lands on the winter solstice is no coincidence.
I know the Mayans were good astronomers, but would they really be able to predict future Winter Solstices that accurately? The solstices drift through the calendar at an average rate of about 20 minutes a year, but there are many smaller and larger cycles that make accurate prediction difficult.

Mayans were eradicated by the Spanish.

.

Aztecs were in control of greater Mexico at the time of the Spanish invasion. Mayan's pre-dated the Aztecs and were long gone into the jungle before the Spanish arrived. Many theories on what happened to them.

I know the Mayans were good astronomers, but would they really be able to predict future Winter Solstices that accurately? The solstices drift through the calendar at an average rate of about 20 minutes a year, but there are many smaller and larger cycles that make accurate prediction difficult.
Well, they probably had detailed observances of solstices, equinoxes, etc for hundreds of years. Plus they only have the day of the solstice, not an exact time...
Maybe it was inspired guesswork.

Aztecs were in control of greater Mexico at the time of the Spanish invasion. Mayan's pre-dated the Aztecs and were long gone into the jungle before the Spanish arrived. Many theories on what happened to them.
No. While the Mayan civilisation certainly declined in around 1000 CE, parts of it survived, and there were several seperate but certainly Mayan settlements - many of them of a substantial size - when the Spanish arrived in Central America. The Mayan people were not completely killed off until towards the end of the seventeenth century.

No. While the Mayan civilisation certainly declined in around 1000 CE, parts of it survived, and there were several seperate but certainly Mayan settlements - many of them of a substantial size - when the Spanish arrived in Central America. The Mayan people were not completely killed off until towards the end of the seventeenth century.

The Aztecs did surplant the Mayan's. They may have been still around because people's never truly disappear. But the political component of the Mayan tribe was gone. The true rulers were the Aztec's. Would be like saying if someone invaded the US and came accross a population of Native American's in the process.

To quote a Wikipedia article:

The turn of the great cycle is conjectured to have been of great significance to the Maya, but does not necessarily mark the end of the world. According to the Popol Vuh, a sacred book of the Maya, they were living in the fourth world. The Popol Vuh describes the first three worlds that the gods failed in making and the creation of the successful fourth world where men were placed. The Maya believed that the fourth world would end in catastrophe and the fifth and final world would be created that would signal the end of mankind.

The last creation ended on a long count of 13.0.0.0.0. Another 13.0.0.0.0 will occur on December 21, 2012, and it has been discussed in many New Age articles and books that this will be the end of this creation or something else entirely. However, the Maya abbreviated their long counts to just the last five vigesimal places. There were an infinitely larger number of units that were usually not shown. When the larger units were shown (notably on a monument from Coba), it is expressed as 13.13.13.13.13.13.13.0.0.0.0, where the larger units are evidently supposed to be 13s in all larger places. In this age we are only approaching 0.0.0.0.0.0.13.0.0.0.0, and the larger places are nowhere near the 13s that would match the end of the last creation.

This is confirmed by a date from Palenque, which projects forward in time to 1.0.0.0.0.0, which will occur on October 13, 4772. The Classic Period Maya obviously did not believe that the end of this age would occur in 2012. There will be a Baktun ending in 2012, a significant event being the end of a 400 year period, but not the end of the age.

The Aztecs did surplant the Mayan's. They may have been still around because people's never truly disappear. But the political component of the Mayan tribe was gone. The true rulers were the Aztec's. Would be like saying if someone invaded the US and came accross a population of Native American's in the process.
I wouldn't say supplanted. The Aztecs' rise came a couple of centuries after the fall of the main period of the Mayans. Also, the Aztecs ruled from northern Mexico to northern Guatemala, while the Mayans were active in the rest of Guatemala, El Salvador, and Belize. It's wrong to say that the political component had gone as well - there was still a system of tribute (similar to the Aztecs - it's possbile they picked it up from the Aztecs) in Mayan society, as well as a definitive hierarchy between the split tribes.

I wouldn't say supplanted. The Aztecs' rise came a couple of centuries after the fall of the main period of the Mayans. Also, the Aztecs ruled from northern Mexico to northern Guatemala, while the Mayans were active in the rest of Guatemala, El Salvador, and Belize. It's wrong to say that the political component had gone as well - there was still a system of tribute (similar to the Aztecs - it's possbile they picked it up from the Aztecs) in Mayan society, as well as a definitive hierarchy between the split tribes.

Well alright I'm not going to argue the points here. I think we are dancing around with the same facts. But it was the fall of the Aztec capital that spelled what I would call an "end" to self rule by the natives of modern day central and middle America.

Well alright I'm not going to argue the points here. I think we are dancing around with the same facts. But it was the fall of the Aztec capital that spelled what I would call an "end" to self rule by the natives of modern day central and middle America.
Yes, I won't disagree with that. Although native resistance continued well into the eighteenth century.

The Aztecs and Mayans both believed in the cycles and for each we are currently near the end of the fourth cycle.

For one (I can't remember which is which) we are coming into the "5th house" and the other the "5th Sun". Some shaman types say that it will be a time of great change that can go good or bad.

What is a calender?

Is it terribly narcisistic that I read this as "The Infamous Maayan Calendar"?

The Aztecs and Mayans both believed in the cycles and for each we are currently near the end of the fourth cycle.

For one (I can't remember which is which) we are coming into the "5th house" and the other the "5th Sun". Some shaman types say that it will be a time of great change that can go good or bad.
It was the Aztecs. They believed there had been 4 ages, or "suns", before ours. Each corresponded to a sign. The first was the water sun, then the cat sun, the fire sun, and the wind sun. The fifth sun is the movement sun, or earth sun. According to some students of Aztec mythology the end of the fifth sun was 1519, which corresponds to the year when the Spaniards arrived; others think that the end is still to come. The fifth sun is supposed to end with earthquakes and "forces louder than thunder".

Yes, I won't disagree with that. Although native resistance continued well into the eighteenth century.
Some would say it still goes on, in the form of zapatismo in Mexico and other movements in Colombia, Peru, Chile, Brazil, and Bolivia.