NationStates Jolt Archive


Canada Has No Idea Where US Subs Prowl

Deep Kimchi
19-12-2005, 21:02
They've been prowling the Canadian Arctic for decades, and now they're upset.

I am of the opinion that they would have to buy dozens of nuclear subs (the only ones that can patrol under ice for lengthy periods) in order to attempt to keep track of US subs.

And I'm not sure it's even possible to track the latest ones.

And we won't mention the French and UK subs that routinely prowl there as well (and I'm sure a few Russian subs go there on occasion).

http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/story.html?id=fb21432a-1d28-415e-b323-ceb22d477732&k=69493

A U.S. nuclear submarine cruised through the Arctic Ocean last month -- probably passing through Canadian territorial waters -- but the federal government is refusing to say whether it gave permission for the voyage.

However, experts say it is highly unlikely Canada was even notified of the USS Charlotte's northern tour, which included a Nov. 10 stop at the North Pole, because it has no way of tracking what goes on beneath the Arctic ice.

And that could threaten Canada's claim to hundreds of thousands of square kilometres of the North, including the Northwest Passage route across the Arctic, said Michael Byers, who holds the Canada research chair in global politics and international law at the University of British Columbia.

"This is very important -- it's crucial," he said. "Any unauthorized passage could have a serious effect on our claim."

Prof. Byers said potentially lucrative oil and gas resources off the Queen Elizabeth Islands could slip out of Canadian control if foreign navies are operating in the Arctic without our permission. "The fact of the matter is that we've spent nothing on Arctic sovereignty over the past 20 years."

Pierre Leblanc, a retired colonel and former commander of the Canadian Forces' northern command, said foreign submarines have been travelling through the Canadian Arctic for decades, but the federal government usually finds out about it only by accident.

He said the nations controlling the submarines -- the Americans, British and French -- usually do not tell Canada when their vessels enter the Arctic. "We're relying on their goodwill to know if they're in our waters or not."
Equus
19-12-2005, 21:07
This has actually been an issue for a long time. Canada has long claimed the Arctic for it's own (including the waters), while the US sends subs and/or ships through there once per year, in order to maintain its claim that those are international waters.

It was always a very quiet international scuffle before, but with the recent warming of the Arctic, there is a possibility that the long-sought Northwest Passage for shipping will open up, and if it's international waters....
Iztatepopotla
19-12-2005, 21:09
Canada's problem is that they claim the northwest passage as part of their territorial waters, therefore subject to Canadian jurisdiction.

The US says that the northwest passage is an international navigation channel which therefore should be open to everyone. They send a few subs through from time to time to prove the point and keep the claim open.

Until recently this question was moot, since only the US subs could use it effectively anyway. But now, global warming could open the passage to year round navigation and not having jurisdiction over it could mean a potential loss of sovereignity for Canada over its northern territories.

And, as the article implies, Canada has no effective way to enforce its sovereignity over the passage.

As far as I know neither country wants to go to an international body to mediate the dispute.
Smokers_247
19-12-2005, 21:09
The only people who know the exact whereabouts of our nuclear subs are just a handfull of people on the sub itself. Not even the commanders in the USA know the exact whereabouts of them. They may know the area it is in but that is about it. I don't really get how it threatens them, it's not like we are preparing for an attack under the ice. Seems like Canada lately has really been complaining a lot, must be the french in them. :)


Ok I didn't see the post above before i posted so I guess that makes sense but still seems a ways off.
Santa Barbara
19-12-2005, 21:21
This just confirms it. Canada is gearing up for war on the US!
Equus
19-12-2005, 21:24
This just confirms it. Canada is gearing up for war on the US!Hells yes. That's why we're cozying up to you Yanks in Wysteria. We're really digging for inside info and hoping to maybe create a few sleeper cells...
Sinuhue
19-12-2005, 21:25
This just confirms it. Canada is gearing up for war on the US!
We shall begin by sending our women across the US/Canada border in hordes, seducing and then killing off all your menfolk...leaving our two nations in the hands of the Gynarchia (http://www.fathersforlife.org/per/edctn_for_gynarchia.htm)!
Waterkeep
19-12-2005, 21:26
This just confirms it. Canada is gearing up for war on the US!
You think too small (http://cwd.ptbcanadian.com/).
Dehny
19-12-2005, 21:26
"Canada Has No Idea Where US Subs Prowl"


given the state of America Intelligence is highly probable that America Has No Idea Where US Subs Prowl
Safalra
19-12-2005, 21:27
USS Charlotte's northern tour, which included a Nov. 10 stop at the North Pole,
Imagine if they arrived only to find the Russians had already booked that day.
Desperate Measures
19-12-2005, 21:35
We shall begin by sending our women across the US/Canada border in hordes, seducing and then killing off all your menfolk...leaving our two nations in the hands of the Gynarchia (http://www.fathersforlife.org/per/edctn_for_gynarchia.htm)!
Are you sure that you want your women to seduce our men over here without free health coverage? You should probably lure them over your border rather than cross yourselves.
Dodudodu
19-12-2005, 21:35
Imagine if they arrived only to find the Russians had already booked that day.

That'd make me chuckle...

US Commander: "Uh...hi." *Awkwardly looks around* "Nice day isn't it?"
Russian Commander (Looking equally surprised): "Er...lets keep this under our hats ok?"
Brady Bunch Perm
19-12-2005, 21:36
Imagine if they arrived only to find the Russians had already booked that day.

As long as those Rooskies weren't glowing it would be fine. Ice dancing anyone? :)
Brady Bunch Perm
19-12-2005, 21:37
Are you sure that you want your women to seduce our men over here without free health coverage? You should probably lure them over your border rather than cross yourselves.

It really isn't free health care, more like the lotto, need new lungs and a liver, you win.
Desperate Measures
19-12-2005, 21:39
It really isn't free health care, more like the lotto, need new lungs and a liver, you win.
Well... it's close, right?
Wolfish
19-12-2005, 21:41
I remember reading about the US training dolphins and sea lions to place explosives on enemy vessels...perhaps we should start a program...we'll use beavers and those cuddly seal pups.
Keruvalia
19-12-2005, 21:43
For some reason I am reminded of this ....

I KNOW THIS IS FICTION, BUT IT'S STILL FUNNY.

Canadians: Please divert your course 15 degrees to the South to avoid collision.

Americans: Recommend you divert your course 15 degrees to the North to avoid a collision.

Canadians: Negative. You will have to divert your course 15 degrees to the South to avoid a collision.

Americans: This is the Captain of a US Navy ship. I say again, divert YOUR course.

Canadians: No, I say again, you divert YOUR course.

Americans: THIS IS THE AIRCRAFT CARRIER USS LINCOLN, THE SECOND LARGEST SHIP IN THE UNITED STATES' ATLANTIC FLEET. WE ARE ACCOMPANIED BY THREE DESTROYERS, THREE CRUISERS AND NUMEROUS SUPPORT VESSELS. I DEMAND THAT YOU CHANGE YOUR COURSE 15 DEGREES NORTH--I SAY AGAIN, THAT'S ONE FIVE DEGREES NORTH--OR COUNTER-MEASURES WILL BE UNDERTAKEN TO ENSURE THE SAFETY OF THIS SHIP.

Canadians: This is a lighthouse. Your call.
Dodudodu
19-12-2005, 21:50
That was brilliant. Completely brilliant.