NationStates Jolt Archive

You know, everytime I get into an argument about racisim, usually with a liberal. The liberal says "Well minorities can't be racist because they don't have the power." You know, I usually just end the coverstation right there because listening to that is like running into a brick wall. This raises up several points.

1. What power? The US government? the state government? the local government?

2. Is calling a black person "******" the same thing as calling a white person "cracker"?

3. Why do liberals have to refer to everything as "(insert word here) Americans." ?

4. Can minorities really be racist?

Yes, of course.

Although they are not in a position to enforce their racism, it can be racism nonetheless.

Put it this way:

EVERYBODY IS A RACIST AND THERE'S NOTHING YOU CAN DO ABOUT IT!!!

ok? :D

Yes, definitely. South Africa is an obvious example.

ok? :D

No. I disagree.

found this on google

http://www.delta4.icom43.net/images/fullsize/spot_the_racist.jpg

You know, everytime I get into an argument about racisim, usually with a liberal. The liberal says "Well minorities can't be racist because they don't have the power." You know, I usually just end the coverstation right there because listening to that is like running into a brick wall. This raises up several points.

1. What power? The US government? the state government? the local government?

2. Is calling a black person "******" the same thing as calling a white person "cracker"?

3. Why do liberals have to refer to everything as "(insert word here) Americans." ?

4. Can minorities really be racist?

1. Who cares

2. Yes

3. Cause their afraid of not being politicaly correct. Fuck them.

4. "Dam straight cracker!"

No. I disagree.well, i'm just over exaggerating. :D

You know, everytime I get into an argument about racisim, usually with a liberal. The liberal says "Well minorities can't be racist because they don't have the power." You know, I usually just end the coverstation right there because listening to that is like running into a brick wall. This raises up several points.

1. What power? The US government? the state government? the local government?

2. Is calling a black person "******" the same thing as calling a white person "cracker"?

3. Why do liberals have to refer to everything as "(insert word here) Americans." ?

4. Can minorities really be racist?

1) not sure where you were going there
2) Theoriedicaly but not in practice ... ****** tends to have a LOT stronger historical and personal emotional content. While there should be no theoredical difference one is a lot harsher with the target audiance

3)Nice steriotype

4) Yes ... but we have to WORRY more about thoes with a greater ability to inflict their racism on others

Idealy no racism would exist by any group but right now we have to work on eliminating it from thoes that have the power to cause the most harm with it and work from there

1) not sure where you were going there
2) Theoriedicaly but not in practice ... ****** tends to have a LOT stronger historical and personal emotional content. While there should be no theoredical difference one is a lot harsher with the target audiance

3)Nice steriotype

4) Yes ... but we have to WORRY more about thoes with a greater ability to inflict their racism on others

Idealy no racism would exist by any group but right now we have to work on eliminating it from thoes that have the power to cause the most harm with it and work from there

1. What I was going for was the fact that the argument was that minoirites couldn't be racist because they don't have the power behind them. What power? They never specifiy what power.

I try and turn racist comments into funnier things. Make people laugh at racist comments. Only by associating evil things with a good fun time can we bond together as a human race.

But remember, human pride, human power. Kill the (non-human) animals! Grr! *Anger!*

Seriously though. Carlos Mencia is just putting some of my jokes on a television show.

You know, everytime I get into an argument about racisim, usually with a liberal. The liberal says "Well minorities can't be racist because they don't have the power." You know, I usually just end the coverstation right there because listening to that is like running into a brick wall. This raises up several points.

1. What power? The US government? the state government? the local government?

2. Is calling a black person "******" the same thing as calling a white person "cracker"?

3. Why do liberals have to refer to everything as "(insert word here) Americans." ?

4. Can minorities really be racist?

Actually I have a number 5.

Why do all ultra-rightwing-"godfearing"-religious-nutjob-concervitives have to refer to everyone who doesent share their exact political viewpoint as "liberal"

being liberal ended slavery. Now hows that label taste?

Yes they can. example.

Lebbonese Woman was saying something like Aussie Prick keep moving keep moving-Not accurate(About Beaches being closed to potential trouble causers)

But she was calling White people Aussie Pricks when surely she should be an Aussie too?

Ok maybe it isn't your idea of racism but it is reatrded.

Majorities who are racist have more chance to spread their hate. Minorities who are racist have more chance to get away with it.



They're all assholes though.

I can honestly say that "minorities" (I'm assuming you mean in the US?) can indeed be racist. It is a FACT. :D I'm a pretty liberal latina myself. In fact, (don't be hard on my family) most of the people in my family don't really like black people or asians. :( It's nothing against their personality or them as human beings but just their physical characteristics. As for me, I love them as friends but would never actually marry one. *shrugs* to each their own.

Actually I have a number 5.

Why do all ultra-rightwing-"godfearing"-religious-nutjob-concervitives have to refer to everyone who doesent share their exact political viewpoint as "liberal"

being liberal ended slavery. Now hows that label taste?
Republicans ended Slavery.:eek:

Actually I have a number 5.

Why do all ultra-rightwing-"godfearing"-religious-nutjob-concervitives have to refer to everyone who doesent share their exact political viewpoint as "liberal"

being liberal ended slavery. Now hows that label taste?

Actually that just made me laugh.

Majorities who are racist have more chance to spread their hate. Minorities who are racist have more chance to get away with it.



They're all assholes though.

agreed

Republicans ended Slavery.:eek:

Liberal Republicans.

everyone's a little bit rascist. . .sometimes. Doesn't mean we go around committing hate crimes. If we would all just admit that we are rascist a little bit, and everyone could stop being so PC C C C. Then maybe we could ive in. . . harmony.


If you haven't heard Avenue Q, you would not get the above statement.

Liberal Republicans.
Oxymoron.

Republicans ended Slavery.:eek:

Lincon was a republican true, but political parties switch values every 100 years, kinda like magnetic poles, but actually effecting someone other than birds :P

but yeah, the republician party was "liberal" in the 1800s
the democratic party was "concervitive"

Oxymoron.

Ron Paul.

Edit: For the traditional US definition, Constance Morella (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Connie_Morella).

Actually that just made me laugh.

there may yet be hope for you yet, young grasshopper

Oxymoron.

nowadays it is.

Oxymoron.

The Republican and Democrat parties both formed out of the concept of liberal-democracy. Both had liberal philosophies.

The Republican and Democratic party are on both side of the same coin. The United States need a strong third party.

Lincon was a republican true, but political parties switch values every 100 years, kinda like magnetic poles, but actually effecting someone other than birds :P

but yeah, the republician party was "liberal" in the 1800s
the democratic party was "concervitive"
Yeah i know it still sounds weird and could always confuse someone out there.:p

The Republican and Democrat parties both formed out of the concept of liberal-democracy. Both had liberal philosophies.

But the definitions of conservative and liberal have changed since then. To me it seems like many of the ideas held by early American politicians would today be labeled as libertarianism, which is commonly mistaken for conservatism because of it's ideas on taxation and size of government.

Republicans ended Slavery.:eek:

Yes, but the values that Democrats typically hold currently were values that the Republicans used to hold. There was a flip somewhere along the line since Lincoln and now, maybe the 40s-60s or so. I don't remember, it's 2am :P

"Conservatives are people who fight this generation, to keep the rights that the liberals fought for a generation before"

OR something like that.

Yes, but the values that Democrats typically hold currently were values that the Republicans used to hold. There was a flip somewhere along the line since Lincoln and now, maybe the 40s-60s or so. I don't remember, it's 2am :P

FDR. The Great Depression. The US gov't transformed dramatically during his presidency, as did its politics.

4. Can minorities really be racist?

In the words of Pratchett:

Just because someone's a member of an ethnic minority doesn't mean they're not a nasty small-minded little jerk [...]
--Carrot (quoting Vimes), Feet of Clay

In the words of Pratchett:

Just because someone's a member of an ethnic minority doesn't mean they're not a nasty small-minded little jerk [...]
--Carrot (quoting Vimes), Feet of Clay
Damn right! Vimes rules don't he?

In the words of Pratchett:

Just because someone's a member of an ethnic minority doesn't mean they're not a nasty small-minded little jerk [...]
--Carrot (quoting Vimes), Feet of Clay
LOL! This was the exact quote I thought of when I saw this thread! Compliments on your reading material :)

3. Why do liberals have to refer to everything as "(insert word here) Americans." ?

4. Can minorities really be racist?

For what it's worth:

3: I'm English, not American, but I do think it's crazy the way people in the US will say "I'm (whatever) American". There seems huge fixation with race there. I was speaking with two Americans earlier in the year. The one from Seattle asked the one from New York if she was Italian, but she said no, she was Scottish. All with the most New Yorkish of New York accents I could possible imagine. "American" was not even mentioned. I found it weird, because I'm not used to it.

4: Sorry, but I find that a ridiculous question (as I guess you do to from your post). Surely it's racist to deny someone the opportunity to be racist based on the colour of their skin.

You can bet that they can. Racism comes from the fear to the other and the difference. We are so different to them as they are to us. I'm use to see it with gipsys in Spain, but it's also a defense way, as the society laid them down like rubbish.

About the end of slavery in USA, Lincoln was Republican, but it just mean that slavery was an obstacle to the country he wanted to build, with paids job and the power in the hands of the bussinesmen, like it is today. It was not a problem of morals, but of social economics policies. When the black people got the vote right in the whole USA?

And about the afroamerican expression, maybe it come from the strong racism than have had the anglosaxon socities through the history. They make the difference strong, they allow the cohabitation but in "comunities", differents although equals. But when the supremacie of the WASP is menaced, they react (read the Huntington "Civilizations clash")

But the definitions of conservative and liberal have changed since then. To me it seems like many of the ideas held by early American politicians would today be labeled as libertarianism, which is commonly mistaken for conservatism because of it's ideas on taxation and size of government.

Not really, see....your Democrat, Republican and Libertarian parties are all liberal-democratic in nature. They all support the same basic ideals (or at least claim to)....for example, free speech, free press, freedom of religion, ownership of private property, and so on. You'll note that parties worldwide claiming to be liberal can be like any one of your major political parties. In Australia, the Liberals are like your Republicans. In Britain, the Liberals are closer to your Libertarians. I believe (though may be wrong) that the Canadian Liberals are closer to your Democrats.

All are nevertheless liberal-democratic in nature. That is the mainstream, and these parties operate within it. Liberalism ended slavery, and replaced the old order. It has endured to this day (whether or not you think that's a good or bad thing).

oh, of course they can. are you trying to take away their ability to do so? i claim my right to discriminate just as much as you can!

okay.
so men are in the minority, but are sometimes psotted to discriminate against women [oh okay, so i didn't mean that one]
never seen a homosexual person who discriminates against heterosexual people?
never seen a person of a minority faith discriminate against people of other faiths?
never seen a person disbaled in way A discriminate against a person disabled in way B?

if not, get out more. :)

Anyone can be racist as anyone can see their race as being better than others. Minorities can have a tendency to hide it behind "racial pride" though. It is a thin line between that and racism if one is not careful. Having power or not does not matter if they are an enclosed group not letting in "outsiders".

I had some black guy at work tell my coworkers he was gonna kick my ass because I was a "white boy" and I was "talkin' jive".

I only asked him if he needed to see a manager before a banquet started since he had arived early.

You know, everytime I get into an argument about racisim, usually with a liberal. The liberal says "Well minorities can't be racist because they don't have the power." You know, I usually just end the coverstation right there because listening to that is like running into a brick wall.
How's that? You can whip out a dictionary, look up 'racism', and point at the place where it says nothing about the requirement to have power.

2. Is calling a black person "******" the same thing as calling a white person "cracker"?
In terms of racism, yes, because both are racial pejoratives. In terms of effect, I'd say the former is 'worse', since crackers ;) have been the dominant culture; they have actually exercised their power in a racist way in the past, and in some ways still do. I think that's what your liberal brick walls are trying to point out.

4. Can minorities really be racist?
I could easily show you, but I won't. ;) And I don't think there's a thin line between racial pride and racism; racism is a property of racial pride.

1. What power? The US government? the state government? the local government?
MAN powers, obviously. Hell, yesterday I put down five bruthas and caused at least 3 more generations of poverty just while riding the subway to work yesterday.
2. Is calling a black person "******" the same thing as calling a white person "cracker"?
Yes, and neither of them are any worse than "shit-head."
"Whitey", on the other hand, really annoys me because it sounds stupid. Say it aloud; see? And if that didn't sound stupid enough, try saying this:
"The Browneys are fighting the oppression of Whitey by breaking into all the grocery stores owned by Yelloweys! RACE RIOT POWER!!"
3. Why do liberals have to refer to everything as "(insert word here) Americans." ?
Why do people say "American"? The US is but a small part of a big place.
4. Can minorities really be racist?
Yes. It is racist to say that people can't be racist based on race.

You know, everytime I get into an argument about racisim, usually with a liberal. The liberal says "Well minorities can't be racist because they don't have the power." You know, I usually just end the coverstation right there because listening to that is like running into a brick wall. This raises up several points.

1. What power? The US government? the state government? the local government?

2. Is calling a black person "******" the same thing as calling a white person "cracker"?

3. Why do liberals have to refer to everything as "(insert word here) Americans." ?

4. Can minorities really be racist?

1. The implication is that it is the power inherent in being of the privileged group: color, nationality, religion, etc.
2. It is the same intention, but we could argue over the intensity of each usage. To most, "******" is more offensive.
3. There is an excessive interest in Balkanizing American identity.
4. Certainly - Racism is prejudice based on race, and anyone can do that.

Actually I have a number 5.

Why do all ultra-rightwing-"godfearing"-religious-nutjob-concervitives have to refer to everyone who doesent share their exact political viewpoint as "liberal"

being liberal ended slavery. Now hows that label taste?
How do you figure? A republicn President oversaw the Civil War. the Emancipation Proclamation was a political tool to keep England from siding with the South during the war, as GB had a policy of not supporting slave holding nations.
Where does liberal come out of that, or are you reffering to another country?
Why doe you have to label someone as an ultra right wing conservative religous nutjob etc? Are you projecting? Do you have deep seated fears you need to express to a shrink? I hope your recovery is a short and painless affair...

How do you figure? A republicn President oversaw the Civil War. the Emancipation Proclamation was a political tool to keep England from siding with the South during the war, as GB had a policy of not supporting slave holding nations.
Where does liberal come out of that, or are you reffering to another country?


Read the rest of the topic ;)

I think minorities can be racist. I thought for a long time that they wouldn't be, maybe because they had seen the pain that sensless hate can cause, but I have found out, that that pain has turned into hate for some people.

For those of you that don't know I live in a black neighborhood, there are about 6 people in a 2 mile block that aren't black, that is the 4 people in my family and the elderly couple 6 blocks away. When we moved in, there was a meeting about the "element" that was moving into the neighborhood, I thought it was kinda funny at first. Then the other day my daughter invited one of her school friends over to our house and the little girl told her "I am not allowed to go to white people's houses" My 4 year old was hurt and confused, she came home in tears, she didn't understand why someone wouldn't be able to come over just because we were white, I had to have a very long talk with her. I called the little girls parents to talk to them, because I thought maybe the little girl was mistaken or kidding or something, She wasn't. :( They don't want their little girl to "learn to be white", which I don't understand, but hey it's their kid I guess.:rolleyes:

Ok, squeaky.
Racism is very prevalant, and no place more obvious than in prison. Merely speaking to a member of another race can earn you a "beat down". Only exceptions if you are both assigned to the same work crew, or doing a drug/power deal.
Did a suicide watch years ago on a black inmate, next to another officer doing the same thing. My inmate kept screaming at us that we were crackers - worst insult I guess he could come up with. We just told him one of us was a Ritz, and the other a Wheat thin.
Reverse racism is really obvious is you look at Farakans' outfit, or Jesse Jackson.

You know, everytime I get into an argument about racisim, usually with a liberal. The liberal says "Well minorities can't be racist because they don't have the power." You know, I usually just end the coverstation right there because listening to that is like running into a brick wall. This raises up several points.
"The liberal says"? Is this the infamous Strawliberal, who also insists that all women should get abortions on a bi-monthly basis, and that white Christian men should be hunted for food?

Forgive me, but I've yet to encounter a single "liberal" who says only minorities can be racist. (Of course, I've never encountered a feminist who says only men can be sexist, yet conservative talking heads insist that such creatures are more common than rats.) Most anti-racists simply point out the reality of our current situation, which is that wealthy white males have more power and money than minorities do, and thus that the bigotry practiced by wealthy white males is much more powerful at this time.

Racist Minorities = as equally possible as racist minorities.

Next time you here someone say "cracker" its a racist slur, its just that people don't consider racist comments against whites as bad.

A particular racist comment I hear a lot in my home town is "Gringo." While many don't realize it, the growing use of the word gringo by some hispanics/latinos/chicanos (whichever label they chose to take) is rather racist.

But minorities can not only be racist against whites, but other minorities as well.
Eh' its all screwed up.

You can also just take the Critical Race Theory to state your arguments.. "all people are racist." "Racists in power work to keep themselves in power." "racist not in power fight harder to gain power." Race struggles...

You know, everytime I get into an argument about racisim, usually with a liberal. The liberal says "Well minorities can't be racist because they don't have the power." You know, I usually just end the coverstation right there because listening to that is like running into a brick wall. This raises up several points.

1. What power? The US government? the state government? the local government?

2. Is calling a black person "******" the same thing as calling a white person "cracker"?

3. Why do liberals have to refer to everything as "(insert word here) Americans." ?

4. Can minorities really be racist?
Despite the fact that this is an incredibly US-centric post, I'll take it in the spirit it's meant, and discuss it without the 'benefit' of being a 'liberal' in the US definition of the term:)

Can minorities be racist? Obviously, yes. Anyone can be a racist. That is not determined by being in the majority or the minority. It's not 'reverse racism' it's just racism. 'Reverse racism' is an odd term, which only seems to refer to non-whites who are racist against whites. People often discuss this topic as though there are only two forms of racism...racism of whites towards non-whites, and visa versa. That is hardly the extent of it, and it is NOT a minority/majority issue alone. Racism exists between many diverse groups, within and between nations.

But what I think you are talking about is the impact of racism. You said "The liberal says 'Well minorities can't be racist because they don't have the power.'" But this is another issue altogether. Of COURSE minorities can be racist. Just like the majority can be, or not. However, the power that certain groups have to enact their racism (if it exists) is disparate. Generally, the majority (and no, I'm not just referring to the 'white' majority of particular nations, because 'white' is most often NOT the majority when looking at this globally) has more political power to enact legislated and social pressure based on racism. The minority may be racist as all hell...but not necessarily able to create those kinds of pressures.

4. Can minorities really be racist?

Yes! Actually they tend to be more racist than the rest of us.

On campus you can have a black student union, an hispanic student union, but you can't have a white one.

Yes! Actually they tend to be more racist than the rest of us.

On campus you can have a black student union, an hispanic student union, but you can't have a white one.
Actually, you are allowed to have a white students' organization, just like you have a black students' one, you just cannot discriminate on your membership in either case. In other words, a black student group must allow white students to participate, and a white student group must allow black students to participate.

My own university had both a white student group and a white Christian student group. It also had a Men's group (and a Women's group).

I think minorities can be racist. I thought for a long time that they wouldn't be, maybe because they had seen the pain that sensless hate can cause, but I have found out, that that pain has turned into hate for some people.

For those of you that don't know I live in a black neighborhood, there are about 6 people in a 2 mile block that aren't black, that is the 4 people in my family and the elderly couple 6 blocks away. When we moved in, there was a meeting about the "element" that was moving into the neighborhood, I thought it was kinda funny at first. Then the other day my daughter invited one of her school friends over to our house and the little girl told her "I am not allowed to go to white people's houses" My 4 year old was hurt and confused, she came home in tears, she didn't understand why someone wouldn't be able to come over just because we were white, I had to have a very long talk with her. I called the little girls parents to talk to them, because I thought maybe the little girl was mistaken or kidding or something, She wasn't. :( They don't want their little girl to "learn to be white", which I don't understand, but hey it's their kid I guess.:rolleyes:Wow. That's brutal Smunkee. It's one thing to deal with racism as an adult, but I find I am very touchy when it impacts children. When my niece came home one day from school at the age of seven and asked, "why is my skin dirty" I just wanted to cry. Some kid had been teasing her and saying she didn't take bathes because her skin is brown. We talked about it for a long time, her and I, because her parents didn't even know where to begin...they'd grown up in a very homogenous country, and had never experienced racism before. But then, three years later, the same niece came home very upset, and when I pestered her as to why, she admitted that she, and some other kids, had been teasing a new kid in the class who was from Mozambique. She said she felt terrible, because she'd been saying he was 'dirty and should wash'. See, she KNEW how it felt to have someone say that to her, but she went and said it to someone else anyway. After talking a while, she agreed that she should apologise...but the kid who called her dirty those years ago also apologised, and it didn't take the sting of it away. It's a vicious cycle.

As a mother, I was all braced to deal with racism, since I was certain my children would be dark skinned, since I'm native, and my husband is latino. But they aren't. They both have dirty-blonde hair and fairly pale skin...though it's clear they will 'darken up' as they grow older, and their eyes are very dark. See, I was ready for racism against 'brown babies'...but instead, I've heard the most hurtful things from relatives on my husband's side of the family, and my own...'they don't look indian!' and 'mira las gringitas!'. They don't MEAN to be cruel...but it bothers me that to our families, they aren't dark 'enough'. I grew up with this...being half white, and much paler than many of my friends and relatives...for me, being whiter than everyone was the problem.

Anyway, your situation sounds very difficult. Imagine if you refused to let your child go over to a black family's house...the horrified reaction to that should be the same, regardless of who is being racist.

You know, everytime I get into an argument about racisim, usually with a liberal. The liberal says "Well minorities can't be racist because they don't have the power." You know, I usually just end the coverstation right there because listening to that is like running into a brick wall. This raises up several points.

1. What power? The US government? the state government? the local government?

2. Is calling a black person "******" the same thing as calling a white person "cracker"?

3. Why do liberals have to refer to everything as "(insert word here) Americans." ?

4. Can minorities really be racist?

of course minorities can be racist. Maybe not to the liberal/PC media, but to fair-thinking/logical people they sure as hell can be.

Anyone can be a racist... it's not a sickness exclusive to white people, despite what the liberal media want you to believe.

I think minorities can be racist. I thought for a long time that they wouldn't be, maybe because they had seen the pain that sensless hate can cause, but I have found out, that that pain has turned into hate for some people.

For those of you that don't know I live in a black neighborhood, there are about 6 people in a 2 mile block that aren't black, that is the 4 people in my family and the elderly couple 6 blocks away. When we moved in, there was a meeting about the "element" that was moving into the neighborhood, I thought it was kinda funny at first. Then the other day my daughter invited one of her school friends over to our house and the little girl told her "I am not allowed to go to white people's houses" My 4 year old was hurt and confused, she came home in tears, she didn't understand why someone wouldn't be able to come over just because we were white, I had to have a very long talk with her. I called the little girls parents to talk to them, because I thought maybe the little girl was mistaken or kidding or something, She wasn't. :( They don't want their little girl to "learn to be white", which I don't understand, but hey it's their kid I guess.:rolleyes:


I've seen the same thing before with my children. There's some odd undercurrent amongst some black families (or among some black children) about not wanting to "be white". This goes so far as to cause them to intentionally do poorly in school, because doing well in school is tantamount to "being white".

Don't see this with all the myriad other minorities around me - go figure.

I think minorities can be racist. I thought for a long time that they wouldn't be, maybe because they had seen the pain that sensless hate can cause, but I have found out, that that pain has turned into hate for some people.

For those of you that don't know I live in a black neighborhood, there are about 6 people in a 2 mile block that aren't black, that is the 4 people in my family and the elderly couple 6 blocks away. When we moved in, there was a meeting about the "element" that was moving into the neighborhood, I thought it was kinda funny at first. Then the other day my daughter invited one of her school friends over to our house and the little girl told her "I am not allowed to go to white people's houses" My 4 year old was hurt and confused, she came home in tears, she didn't understand why someone wouldn't be able to come over just because we were white, I had to have a very long talk with her. I called the little girls parents to talk to them, because I thought maybe the little girl was mistaken or kidding or something, She wasn't. :( They don't want their little girl to "learn to be white", which I don't understand, but hey it's their kid I guess.:rolleyes:

that's racism.... a great example of blatant racism... and the fact that they don't think they need to hide it tells me that they think their racism is righteous, that white people should be shunned publicly.. (not that i'm condoning hiding your feelings, but cripes)

Yes! Actually they tend to be more racist than the rest of us.:rolleyes:

On campus you can have a black student union, an hispanic student union, but you can't have a white one.
And that is racism...worse racism than 'the rest of us'? Go ahead and start an 'Irish/Dutch/German/French' student's union. You should have little difficulty. One of the reasons minority unions are so encompassing...including ALL blacks, instead of just people from specific countries, and so on, is generally because there are not enough people from one specific background. What I mean is...at my University, there was a Chilean group (actually, let's not mix up the term student union and student group) and a Latino group...the Chileans had enough of a population to warrant their own group, while other latinos banded together. However, 'white' can be broken down just as much as any group...and there tend to be more of them. You can have an 'Italian' group, a 'Serbo-Croatian' group if there are enough people. If there were only a few dozen 'whites' of various backgrounds, then it would make sense to have a 'white' student group.

Yes! Actually they tend to be more racist than the rest of us.
That opinion makes you a self-proclaimed minority. But in that case of course you could start a student union for its advancement. ;)

1. What power? The US government? the state government? the local government?

2. Is calling a black person "******" the same thing as calling a white person "cracker"?

3. Why do liberals have to refer to everything as "(insert word here) Americans." ?

4. Can minorities really be racist?
1 - Well, maybe not at the government level due to the current trend of voting for the white guy.

2 - Calling anyone of a different race an offensive name is exactly the same thing. Calling someone of your race an offensive name isn't racist; it's just being a jackass

3 - No idea

4 - Anyone can be racist, whether minority or majority.

Anyone can be racist as anyone can see their race as being better than others. Minorities can have a tendency to hide it behind "racial pride" though. It is a thin line between that and racism if one is not careful. Having power or not does not matter if they are an enclosed group not letting in "outsiders".

yes, it's hidden behind the pretense of the Struggle.

I know we did wrong by the black people in America, but shit, Abe ended slavery 140+ years ago. And granted, things remained tough (mostly in the South) for about the next 100 years, but that was still before my time. I had absolutely *nothing* to do with slavery in America. If we remain fixated on racism and slavery, we're always going to have them: slavery of the otherwise free mind, producing racism for everyone else.

I say we should look ahead, drop racist programs, start singling out examples of all forms of racism... start treating each other like people instead of colors. In order for me to see you as a person and not a color, I need to be able to first see myself as a person instead of a color. That's it.

You know, everytime I get into an argument about racisim, usually with a liberal. The liberal says "Well minorities can't be racist because they don't have the power." You know, I usually just end the coverstation right there because listening to that is like running into a brick wall. This raises up several points.

1. What power? The US government? the state government? the local government? Personal Power.

2. Is calling a black person "******" the same thing as calling a white person "cracker"? yes... unless that is their proper name.

3. Why do liberals have to refer to everything as "(insert word here) Americans." ? it's not just Liberals... it's on all sides.

4. Can minorities really be racist? Racisim is a state of mind. How one thinks. therefore, if they have a mind and can think, then they can be racist.
Bolding Mine

Why do all ultra-rightwing-"godfearing"-religious-nutjob-concervitives have to refer to everyone who doesent share their exact political viewpoint as "liberal"

being liberal ended slavery. Now hows that label taste?
Well, if it were't for the fact that today's current "liberals", at least in america, have perverted the term far from what it originally meant, you might just have a point.

yes, it's hidden behind the pretense of the Struggle.

I know we did wrong by the black people in America, but shit, Abe ended slavery 140+ years ago. And granted, things remained tough (mostly in the South) for about the next 100 years, but that was still before my time. I had absolutely *nothing* to do with slavery in America. If we remain fixated on racism and slavery, we're always going to have them: slavery of the otherwise free mind, producing racism for everyone else.

I say we should look ahead, drop racist programs, start singling out examples of all forms of racism... start treating each other like people instead of colors. In order for me to see you as a person and not a color, I need to be able to first see myself as a person instead of a color. That's it.
Just one caution when talking about certain aspects of racism as being 'before your time'. Yes, slavery ended generations ago, long enough to be in the 'past'. But the struggles of the civil rights movement are not so far gone, and things did not improve without hard work...work done by people of all ethnicities, not just 'blacks'. People who participated in those struggles are still around...it's not the far past for them. Would you have us forget the World Wars, because they are before we were born? I'm not comparing the two...I'm just saying that this 'cut-off' line for deciding which things still 'matter' seems to be pretty arbitrary...and moveable, depending on the issue.

Things are a lot better now in certain countries, but it took work to get it to that point. We don't need to dwell on the injustices of the past, but we do need to be cognisant of them, and realise how they've impacted our present. Slavery is a more distant factor than the civil rights movement...and poverty and crime are more immediate than this...but to understand a problem, you should understand the roots. That's not fixating...that's learning from mistakes. Slavery may not exist in the US anymore...but racism still does...not just directed against blacks (by whites). You can't just wish it away, or ignore it away.

2. Is calling a black person "******" the same thing as calling a white person "cracker"?
Yes.

3. Why do liberals have to refer to everything as "(insert word here) Americans." ?
I have no idea. Does not the American govenrment also use those terms?

4. Can minorities really be racist?
Absolutely. Indeed, inter-minority racism can often be the most vicious, in my experience.

Yes! Actually they tend to be more racist than the rest of us.

On campus you can have a black student union, an hispanic student union, but you can't have a white one.

...and in the media there's BET.

Can you imagine the uproar that would come if someone started White Entertainment Television?

hehe

[QUOTE=Wei-Yuan]being liberal ended slavery. {/QUOTE]

Yeah but It is associated with Abe lincoln and he was a republican, who ( for the majority) are conservatives

OH YES! I myself have witnessed Minorities being racist and then claiming they can't be because "there a minority".

...and in the media there's BET.

Can you imagine the uproar that would come if someone started White Entertainment Television?

hehe

You can have Ebony Magazine, or Jet Magazine, but you can't have Ivory Magazine, or White Magazine.

But there is Ivory Soap, so go figure...

You can have Ebony Magazine, or Jet Magazine, but you can't have Ivory Magazine, or White Magazine.

But there is Ivory Soap, so go figure...
What the heck would "Ivory Magazine" be? And what would "White Entertainment" be? Minority groups tend to have more cohesion than majority groups...though that is not to say every black person in the US is going to love every single program on BET. But 'white' culture is so spread out...would you highlight bagpipe music? Rock and roll? Bluegrass? And which cultures would be highlighted within the 'white' culture? Italians? Irish? Russians? What? Programs directed at specific 'white' groups exist...should they all be put together on a WET? Why? Black culture in the US is far more homogenous than 'white' culture is. We have 'Asian' channels that have all Punjabi programming, then Hindi programming, then Sri Lankan programming...they don't all have their own channel because there aren't enough people to warrant it. Yet.

Frankly I don't understand why whites (racist ones of course) hate blacks; it wasn't their fault for being shipped from Africa and brought to the Americas! Black people wouldn't be walking down American streets if it weren't for lazy white folks who didn't want to do their own work, that's the bottom line. If you (whites) weren’t whipped, abused, sexually molested, murdered, forced laboured for free, all because of your skin colour (and this lasted for 350 years!) then I don't know why you complain about not using the N word. Yes all people (of all race) can be racist, the problem is when racist people try to bring their insane imaginations into reality (like Hitler).

Minorities can get away with being blatently racist much easyer.

Theres this girl in my class, who always goes on about how proud she is to be black. How there isn't enough black people in her class and all her friends are black (pretty obviously by choice). Now I consider myself somewhat liberal but when my teacher nods in agreement at most of the stuff she says it really annoys me.

If I were to go on about how proud I am to be white and more white people should be put into my class I could only imagine the reaction I'd get

4. Can minorities really be racist?

Apparantly nobody gives their time and helps the poor in the murder capital of America.
Camden, NJ.
Of the mostly Hispanic middle schoolers I worked with there (30-40 kids), there was a student from a different Latin American country.
They would pick on the Dominican and call him cockaroach. They would beat the lone black kid.
Not only can minorities be rascist, they can be inwardly rascist too.

*BTW, don't talk to radical liberals. They can be screwy. Just ask me sometime about Bush II. :p*

As usual this discussion quickly became an arena for inane white complaints about minority "racism."

Yes. Minorities can be racist.

But minorities often lack the power to discriminate.

Racism is a state of mind. To some degree, we are all racist. It is a part of cultures worldwide, and particularly US culture. But we can try hard to battle our racism and be as non-racist as possible.

Not discriminating is more important. Minorities are still actively discriminated against in the U.S on a pervasive basis. (Don't make me drag out the proof.) The disparity economically and socially between white males and minority groups is staggering. White males are rarely discriminated against.

Lets get real. Racism on the part of minorities pales in comparison to pervasive invidious discrimination faced by minorities in the US.

There are these little things called history and discrimination. Although race has little or no biological significance, it has had and continues to have enormous significance. As historian Roger Wilkins has pointed out, Blacks have an about 385-year history on this continent: 245 involving slavery, 100 involving legalized discrimination, and only 40 involving anything else.

And if you do not think discrimination still ocurrs you are living in a dream world. Widespread discrimination and exclusion and their ripple effects continue to exist. Here are some (I know practically verboten here) facts:


Minorities and women remain economically disadvantaged: the black unemployment rate remains over twice the white unemployment rate; 97 percent of senior managers in Fortune 1000 corporations are white males; (28) in 1992, 33.3 percent of blacks and 29.3 percent of Hispanics lived in poverty, compared to 11.6 percent of whites. (29) In 1993, Hispanic men were half as likely as white men to be managers or professionals; (30) only 0.4 percent of senior management positions in Fortune 1000 industrial and Fortune 500 service industries are Hispanic. (31)


Blatant discrimination is a continuing problem in the labor market. Perhaps the most convincing evidence comes from "audit" studies, in which white and minority (or male and female) job seekers are given similar resumes and sent to the same set of firms to apply for a job. These studies often find that employers are less likely to interview or offer a job to minority applicants and to female applicants. (32)


Less direct evidence on discrimination comes from comparisons of earnings of blacks and whites, or males and females. (33) Even after adjusting for characteristics that affect earnings (such as years of education and work experience), these studies typically find that blacks and women are paid less than their white male counterparts. The average income for Hispanic women with college degrees is less than the average for white men with high school degrees. (34)


In 1994 alone, the Federal government received over 90,000 complaints of employment discrimination. Moreover 64,423 complaints were filed with state and local Fair Employment Practices Commissions, bringing the total last year to over 154,000. Thousands of other individuals filed complaints alleging racially motivated violence and discrimination in housing, voting, and public accommodations, to name just a few.


White males continue to hold 97 percent of senior management positions in Fortune 1000 industrial and Fortune 500 service industries. Only 0.6 percent of senior management are African American, 0.3 percent are Asian and 0.4 percent are Hispanic.


African Americans hold only 2.5 percent of top jobs in the private sector and African American men with professional degrees earn only 79 percent of the amount earned by their white counterparts. Comparably situated African American women earn only 60 percent of the amount earned by white males.


Women hold 3 to 5 percent of senior level management positions -- there are only two women CEOs in Fortune 1000 companies.


The fears and prejudices of lower-rung white male executives were listed as a principal barrier to the advancement of women and minorities. The report also found that, across the board, men advance more rapidly than women.


The unemployment rate for African Americans was more than twice that of whites in 1994. The median income for black males working full-time, full year in 1992 was 30 percent less than white males. Hispanics fared only modestly better in each category. In 1993, black and Hispanic men were half as likely as white men to be managers or professionals.


In 1992, over 50 percent of African American children under 6 and 44 percent of Hispanic children lived under the poverty level, while only 14.4 percent of white children did so. The overall poverty rates were 33.3 percent for African Americans, 29.3 percent for Hispanics and 11.6 percent for whites.


Black employment remains fragile -- in an economic downturn, black unemployment leads the downward spiral. For example, in the 1981-82 recession, black employment dropped by 9.1 percent while white employment fell by 1.6 percent. Hispanic unemployment is also much more cyclical than unemployment for white Americans. (39) Hispanic family income remains much lower, and increases at a slower rate, than white family income.


Unequal access to education plays an important role in creating and perpetuating economic disparities. In 1993, less than 3 percent of college graduates were unemployed; but whereas 22.6 percent of whites had college degrees, only 12.2 percent of African Americans and 9.0 percent of Hispanics did.


The 1990 census reflected that 2.4 percent of the nation's businesses are owned by blacks. Almost 85 percent of those black owned businesses have no employees


Even within educational categories, the economic status of minorities and women fall short. The average woman with a masters degree earns the same amount as the average man with an associate degree. (42) While college educated black women have reached earnings parity with college educated white women, college educated black men earn 76 percent of the earnings of their white male counterparts. (43) Hispanic women earn less than 65 percent of the income earned by white men with the same educational level. Hispanic men earn 81 percent of the wages earned by white men at the same educational level. The average income for Hispanic women with college degrees is less than the average for white men with high school degrees.


A study of the graduating classes of the University of Michigan Law School from 1972-1975 revealed significant wage differentials between men and women lawyers after 15 years of practice. While women earned 93.5 percent of male salaries during the first year after school, that number dropped to 61 percent after 15 years of practice. Controlling for grades, hours of work, family responsibilities, labor market experience, and choice of careers (large firms versus small firms, academia, public interest, etc.), men are left with an unexplained 13 percent earnings advantage over women.


Here is my source (http://clinton2.nara.gov/WH/EOP/OP/html/aa/aa04.html). It is the Clinton Administration's Affirmative Action Review: Report to the President. Please feel free to check its accuracy. In fact, read it. Learn it. Love it. Here are the footnotes (http://clinton2.nara.gov/WH/EOP/OP/html/aa/footnotes.html#aa28).

I'm not going to quote from everyone of the following sources, but each provides ample evidence of continuing discrimination against blacks in the United States:
National Urban League’s THE STATE OF BLACK AMERICA 2005 (Executive Summary) (javascript:Launch('publications/SOBA/2005SOBAEXCSUMMARY.pdf');)
We Don't Feel Welcome Here: African Americans and Hispanics in Metro Boston (http://www.civilrightsproject.harvard.edu/research/metro/discrimination_boston.php)
Civil Rights 101: RACE, CLASS, AND ECONOMIC JUSTICE (http://www.civilrights.org/research_center/civilrights101/economicjustice.html)
Race, Ethnicity, and Economic Well-Being (http://www.urban.org/Template.cfm?Section=ByTopic&NavMenuID=62&template=/TaggedContent/ViewPublication.cfm&PublicationID=8790)
U.S. Commission on Civil Rights -- Racial and Ethnic Tensions in American Communities: Poverty, Inequality, and Discrimination—Volume VII: The Mississippi Delta Report (http://www.usccr.gov/pubs/pubsndx.htm)
Is Resegregation Real? (http://www.civilrightsproject.harvard.edu/research/reseg03/mumford_response.php)
The Resegregation of Southern Schools (http://www.civilrightsproject.harvard.edu/research/reseg02/resegregation02.php)
A Multiracial Society with Segregated Schools (http://www.civilrightsproject.harvard.edu/research/reseg03/resegregation03.php)
Discrimination in Metropolitan Housing Markets (http://www.urban.org/Template.cfm?Section=ByTopic&NavMenuID=62&template=/TaggedContent/ViewPublication.cfm&PublicationID=7982)
Race, Place, and Segregation: Redrawing the Color Line in Our Nation's Metros (http://www.civilrightsproject.harvard.edu/research/metro/three_metros.php)

I can go on and on and on and on ... Don't make me.

Stop this whiny bullshit that complains that minorities are racist. Minorities are discriminated against. White males rarely are.

Frankly I don't understand why whites (racist ones of course) hate blacks; it wasn't their fault for being shipped from Africa and brought to the Americas! Black people wouldn't be walking down American streets if it weren't for lazy white folks who didn't want to do their own work, that's the bottom line. ... .

Lazy White folks? More like people that wanted to have the cheapest labor available.
Slaves were also sold off by their own kind- they werent just herded and captured in nets-their own people sold them to traders.

Oh Cat-Tribe...all the stuff you've said is clearly the fault of those minorities not getting themselves out of the social and economic dumps. If they'd stop whining about racism and just get off their lazy asses, this would cease to be an issue. And women, as we all know, are not a minority.

*pauses*

Well, I wanted to be the first to put the most obvious (and inane) 'counter-argument' out there.

Lazy White folks? More like people that wanted to have the cheapest labor available.
Slaves were also sold off by their own kind- they werent just herded and captured in nets-their own people sold them to traders.
Those weren't their 'own' kind. Slaves didn't sell slaves. Greedy black men (often of different ethnicities or tribes than their victims) sold other black men into slavery...the colour of their skin doesn't make them the same 'kind'.

They may have made it easier...but slavery was not perpetrated on such a huge level by Africans alone. Nor were they even close to being as culpable.

...good for you...
By the way, by minority, do we mean the immigrant race(s), the race(s) not in power, or the non-white race(s)?

1. Yes! I mean, whites were the immigrants into U.S.A, and they were totally racist!
2. Still yes! Like in South Africa, the Pan-Africanist Congress of Azania was very racist against whites!
3. Yes again! See above example!

... so what does that tell us? HA! Something counteracting racism, because we all have that basic same evil non-moralistic selfish twisted little human nature somewhere inside! Ooh... irony, irony, irony. Yes, I hate hyphenations!
...I am so weird....

As usual this discussion quickly became an arena for inane white complaints about minority "racism."

In their defense, the discussion was all about minority racism. It would be a bit off-topic to talk about anything else.

I think a big part of the problem is the fact that people tend towards reactionism, which makes many who might work to correct the situation defensive. When someone tells you that you personally, although you have done nothing to warrant this, have caused their hardships, human nature will tend towards getting defensive instead of working to end the hardships. When someone tells you that they want you to personally apologize for something that happened, at the earliest, a generation ago - something you had no part in - the natural instinct is to get defensive.

Some of us can empathize and say, "Ok, the things that happened in the past have disadvantaged you. You shouldn't take it out on me, but I can understand why you would. I'm going to do what I can anyways, but I am not taking on any blame for it. Sorry." Others react with, "I DIDN'T DO ANYTHING HOW DARE YOU ACCUSE ME I DON'T OWE YOU ANYTHING NOW I HATE YOU TOO!"

This, of course, just continues the cycle. A big part of this whole issue is fighting what generally comes out of human nature.

We live in a nation of opportunities where even minorities can be anything they want to be, even racist. So ... yes.

Those weren't their 'own' kind. Slaves didn't sell slaves. Greedy black men (often of different ethnicities or tribes than their victims) sold other black men into slavery...the colour of their skin doesn't make them the same 'kind'.

They may have made it easier...but slavery was not perpetrated on such a huge level by Africans alone. Nor were they even close to being as culpable.

Dont mince words, you argumentative tool.

Dont mince words, you argumentative tool.
I'll mince them all I want. *mince, mince, mince*

Why is that white people who feel threatened of being labelled racist are so quick to point out that minorities can also be racist? Being racist doesn't depend on what your race is. Stop looking outward and change yourself. Racism should never be tolerated no matter who engages in it but it also shouldn't be used as a fire vs. fire tool.

Why is that white people who feel threatened of being labelled racist are so quick to point out that minorities can also be racist? Being racist doesn't depend on what your race is. Stop looking outward and change yourself. Racism should never be tolerated no matter who engages in it but it also shouldn't be used as a fire vs. fire tool.
It's a justification. Just like "so and so uses terrible torture, so we're okay if we do a little itty bit of torturing on our own..."

But you're right. It shouldn't matter if jackasses of any colour are racists...you should still stick to your guns and avoid being racist yourself.

Why is that white people who feel threatened of being labelled racist are so quick to point out that minorities can also be racist? Being racist doesn't depend on what your race is. Stop looking outward and change yourself. Racism should never be tolerated no matter who engages in it but it also shouldn't be used as a fire vs. fire tool.

Amen.

Not discriminating is more important. Minorities are still actively discriminated against in the U.S on a pervasive basis. (Don't make me drag out the proof.) The disparity economically and socially between white males and minority groups is staggering. White males are rarely discriminated against.

You're right, not discriminating is very important. We should therefore get rid of the quota system in place at many institution and the whole idea of "Affirmative Action" Race shouldn't even be on applications for jobs or college admissions. Let's start treating everyone like people and see how far we get.

Well seeing as how everyone belongs to at least one race, and racism is placing one race as superior to another because it is that race, it's impossible for anyone to not be racist if they have racist thoughts.

You're right, not discriminating is very important. We should therefore get rid of the quota system in place at many institution and the whole idea of "Affirmative Action" Race shouldn't even be on applications for jobs or college admissions. Let's start treating everyone like people and see how far we get.
Maybe if we did that from the beginning, things such as Affirmative Action would not be necessary.

You're right, not discriminating is very important. We should therefore get rid of the quota system in place at many institution and the whole idea of "Affirmative Action" Race shouldn't even be on applications for jobs or college admissions. Let's start treating everyone like people and see how far we get.

I think we would get very far if we just treated people like people, instead of "blacks" or "white" etc.

I think we would get very far if we just treated people like people, instead of "blacks" or "white" etc.

Yup.

Lets get real. Racism on the part of minorities pales in comparison to pervasive invidious discrimination faced by minorities in the US.

There are these little things called history and discrimination. Although race has little or no biological significance, it has had and continues to have enormous significance. As historian Roger Wilkins has pointed out, Blacks have an about 385-year history on this continent: 245 involving slavery, 100 involving legalized discrimination, and only 40 involving anything else.

And if you do not think discrimination still ocurrs you are living in a dream world. Widespread discrimination and exclusion and their ripple effects continue to exist. Here are some (I know practically verboten here) facts:


Minorities and women remain economically disadvantaged: the black unemployment rate remains over twice the white unemployment rate; 97 percent of senior managers in Fortune 1000 corporations are white males; (28) in 1992, 33.3 percent of blacks and 29.3 percent of Hispanics lived in poverty, compared to 11.6 percent of whites. (29) In 1993, Hispanic men were half as likely as white men to be managers or professionals; (30) only 0.4 percent of senior management positions in Fortune 1000 industrial and Fortune 500 service industries are Hispanic. (31)


Blatant discrimination is a continuing problem in the labor market. Perhaps the most convincing evidence comes from "audit" studies, in which white and minority (or male and female) job seekers are given similar resumes and sent to the same set of firms to apply for a job. These studies often find that employers are less likely to interview or offer a job to minority applicants and to female applicants. (32)


Less direct evidence on discrimination comes from comparisons of earnings of blacks and whites, or males and females. (33) Even after adjusting for characteristics that affect earnings (such as years of education and work experience), these studies typically find that blacks and women are paid less than their white male counterparts. The average income for Hispanic women with college degrees is less than the average for white men with high school degrees. (34)


In 1994 alone, the Federal government received over 90,000 complaints of employment discrimination. Moreover 64,423 complaints were filed with state and local Fair Employment Practices Commissions, bringing the total last year to over 154,000. Thousands of other individuals filed complaints alleging racially motivated violence and discrimination in housing, voting, and public accommodations, to name just a few.


White males continue to hold 97 percent of senior management positions in Fortune 1000 industrial and Fortune 500 service industries. Only 0.6 percent of senior management are African American, 0.3 percent are Asian and 0.4 percent are Hispanic.


African Americans hold only 2.5 percent of top jobs in the private sector and African American men with professional degrees earn only 79 percent of the amount earned by their white counterparts. Comparably situated African American women earn only 60 percent of the amount earned by white males.


Women hold 3 to 5 percent of senior level management positions -- there are only two women CEOs in Fortune 1000 companies.


The fears and prejudices of lower-rung white male executives were listed as a principal barrier to the advancement of women and minorities. The report also found that, across the board, men advance more rapidly than women.


The unemployment rate for African Americans was more than twice that of whites in 1994. The median income for black males working full-time, full year in 1992 was 30 percent less than white males. Hispanics fared only modestly better in each category. In 1993, black and Hispanic men were half as likely as white men to be managers or professionals.


In 1992, over 50 percent of African American children under 6 and 44 percent of Hispanic children lived under the poverty level, while only 14.4 percent of white children did so. The overall poverty rates were 33.3 percent for African Americans, 29.3 percent for Hispanics and 11.6 percent for whites.


Black employment remains fragile -- in an economic downturn, black unemployment leads the downward spiral. For example, in the 1981-82 recession, black employment dropped by 9.1 percent while white employment fell by 1.6 percent. Hispanic unemployment is also much more cyclical than unemployment for white Americans. (39) Hispanic family income remains much lower, and increases at a slower rate, than white family income.


Unequal access to education plays an important role in creating and perpetuating economic disparities. In 1993, less than 3 percent of college graduates were unemployed; but whereas 22.6 percent of whites had college degrees, only 12.2 percent of African Americans and 9.0 percent of Hispanics did.


The 1990 census reflected that 2.4 percent of the nation's businesses are owned by blacks. Almost 85 percent of those black owned businesses have no employees


Even within educational categories, the economic status of minorities and women fall short. The average woman with a masters degree earns the same amount as the average man with an associate degree. (42) While college educated black women have reached earnings parity with college educated white women, college educated black men earn 76 percent of the earnings of their white male counterparts. (43) Hispanic women earn less than 65 percent of the income earned by white men with the same educational level. Hispanic men earn 81 percent of the wages earned by white men at the same educational level. The average income for Hispanic women with college degrees is less than the average for white men with high school degrees.


A study of the graduating classes of the University of Michigan Law School from 1972-1975 revealed significant wage differentials between men and women lawyers after 15 years of practice. While women earned 93.5 percent of male salaries during the first year after school, that number dropped to 61 percent after 15 years of practice. Controlling for grades, hours of work, family responsibilities, labor market experience, and choice of careers (large firms versus small firms, academia, public interest, etc.), men are left with an unexplained 13 percent earnings advantage over women.


Here is my source (http://clinton2.nara.gov/WH/EOP/OP/html/aa/aa04.html). It is the Clinton Administration's Affirmative Action Review: Report to the President. Please feel free to check its accuracy. In fact, read it. Learn it. Love it. Here are the footnotes (http://clinton2.nara.gov/WH/EOP/OP/html/aa/footnotes.html#aa28).

I'm not going to quote from everyone of the following sources, but each provides ample evidence of continuing discrimination against blacks in the United States:
National Urban League’s THE STATE OF BLACK AMERICA 2005 (Executive Summary) (javascript:Launch('publications/SOBA/2005SOBAEXCSUMMARY.pdf');)
We Don't Feel Welcome Here: African Americans and Hispanics in Metro Boston (http://www.civilrightsproject.harvard.edu/research/metro/discrimination_boston.php)
Civil Rights 101: RACE, CLASS, AND ECONOMIC JUSTICE (http://www.civilrights.org/research_center/civilrights101/economicjustice.html)
Race, Ethnicity, and Economic Well-Being (http://www.urban.org/Template.cfm?Section=ByTopic&NavMenuID=62&template=/TaggedContent/ViewPublication.cfm&PublicationID=8790)
U.S. Commission on Civil Rights -- Racial and Ethnic Tensions in American Communities: Poverty, Inequality, and Discrimination—Volume VII: The Mississippi Delta Report (http://www.usccr.gov/pubs/pubsndx.htm)
Is Resegregation Real? (http://www.civilrightsproject.harvard.edu/research/reseg03/mumford_response.php)
The Resegregation of Southern Schools (http://www.civilrightsproject.harvard.edu/research/reseg02/resegregation02.php)
A Multiracial Society with Segregated Schools (http://www.civilrightsproject.harvard.edu/research/reseg03/resegregation03.php)
Discrimination in Metropolitan Housing Markets (http://www.urban.org/Template.cfm?Section=ByTopic&NavMenuID=62&template=/TaggedContent/ViewPublication.cfm&PublicationID=7982)
Race, Place, and Segregation: Redrawing the Color Line in Our Nation's Metros (http://www.civilrightsproject.harvard.edu/research/metro/three_metros.php)

I can go on and on and on and on ... Don't make me.

Stop this whiny bullshit that complains that minorities are racist. Minorities are discriminated against. White males rarely are.


As a white, upper middle class, male kid you just made my day, god am I glad I was born white and with a cock in this country with so many open opportunites :p

You can have Ebony Magazine, or Jet Magazine, but you can't have Ivory Magazine, or White Magazine.

But there is Ivory Soap, so go figure...

rofl

Can you imagine a Super Bowl ad for a brand new Procter & Gamble soap called Midnight Fresh or something? hehe

Cybach']As a white, upper middle class, male kid you just made my day, god am I glad I was born white and with a cock in this country with so many open opportunites :p

Just make sure you do very well on your SATs!

1. What power? The US government? the state government? the local government?

2. Is calling a black person "******" the same thing as calling a white person "cracker"?

3. Why do liberals have to refer to everything as "(insert word here) Americans." ?

4. Can minorities really be racist?
1. Most minority members I know generally mean economic power when they say this sort of thing.

2. No, because calling a white man a "cracker" means little to them, while calling an African-American "******" is deeply wounding. As an asside on this, words have power over us only to the extent we grant them power over us.

3. It's not just "liberals" who do that. It's an attempt to impart information about the ethnic background of the person(s) in question, for whatever reasons.

4. Yes, of course. Racism knows no limits, unfortunately.

In 1994 alone, the Federal government received over 90,000 complaints of employment discrimination. Moreover 64,423 complaints were filed with state and local Fair Employment Practices Commissions, bringing the total last year to over 154,000. Thousands of other individuals filed complaints alleging racially motivated violence and discrimination in housing, voting, and public accommodations, to name just a few.
Although I agree in essence with what you posted, some of the statistics are questionable. The one I quote above, for example, simply lists total number of complaints filed, with no indication as to how many of those filings were age, disability, or veteran status related, as opposed to either race or sex.

You're right, not discriminating is very important. We should therefore get rid of the quota system in place at many institution and the whole idea of "Affirmative Action" Race shouldn't even be on applications for jobs or college admissions. Let's start treating everyone like people and see how far we get.

Unfortunately you don't understand what Affirmative Action is or does, so it won't be possible to have an intelligent conversation with you about it.

For example, quotas are illegal and are not used "at many institution[s]."

Acting like racism doesn't exist won't solve the problem. If there is a turd on your plate, closing your eyes won't make it taste any better.

Although I agree in essence with what you posted, some of the statistics are questionable. The one I quote above, for example, simply lists total number of complaints filed, with no indication as to how many of those filings were age, disability, or veteran status related, as opposed to either race or sex.

I posted all the stastitics I posted together precisely because people would "question" some of the statistics I posted if they were taken in isolation.

You know, everytime I get into an argument about racisim, usually with a liberal. The liberal says "Well minorities can't be racist because they don't have the power." You know, I usually just end the coverstation right there because listening to that is like running into a brick wall. This raises up several points.

1. What power? The US government? the state government? the local government?

2. Is calling a black person "******" the same thing as calling a white person "cracker"?

3. Why do liberals have to refer to everything as "(insert word here) Americans." ?

4. Can minorities really be racist?


I haven't read the thread, but as a Minority I can safely answer these questions.

1) Iunno what kind, but it's crap because we all know the Blacks control the music industry. (Gwen Stefani and Green Day are the only whites to top at Billboard, the rest are R&B and Crunk I believe)


2) Unfortunately no. Even though I find the word ****** hilarious, nothing special it's just funny to say. Don't worry, you can call be a wetback, I encourage it. But no,

3) Hell I know, I think the term African American is PIC anyway, what about the Haitians? (Seriously?) Just call 'em black y ya.

4) Hell yeah. Go to any old school Hispanic in my block and mention race, they will add words to the Spanish language just to insult a minority, I am not lying.

I say, let's all just be racist openly and let our true feelings out. Better then suppressing where it can rage inside...

Oh Cat-Tribe...all the stuff you've said is clearly the fault of those minorities not getting themselves out of the social and economic dumps. If they'd stop whining about racism and just get off their lazy asses, this would cease to be an issue. And women, as we all know, are not a minority.

*pauses*

Well, I wanted to be the first to put the most obvious (and inane) 'counter-argument' out there.

Yes...actually they were "lazy white folks" and bloody bastards if y'ask me! And while many modern day whites in the US do not mean to keep minorities down in the dumps, the whole white-privilege system continues to wreck our future. As a latina who comes from a below poverty level household *and no I'm not whining* I can say that we are some of if not the most hard-working people in this country. We are the ones who in order to get ahead and support our families, have to do the dirty jobs that no one wants, not even black folks. With time, our parents and past generations have made it so that this generation has opportunities to get ahead, which seem to be doing. As an educated liberal, future teacher and open-minded person, I must say that I bear no actual grudges against "whites" seeing as how I'm about 3/4 white (Spanish people are white if you haven't noticed as are Russians). I would very much like for the US to let go of all its race obsessed culture, as it would make things easier on everyone. By the way, if there are any Brits here could you tell me whether this race-problem is the same in the UK? I actually am in LOVE with England and English culture and would like to move there some day. Maybe I won't have to deal with being labeled all the time there. :( *sigh*

You know, everytime I get into an argument about racisim, usually with a liberal. The liberal says "Well minorities can't be racist because they don't have the power." You know, I usually just end the coverstation right there because listening to that is like running into a brick wall. This raises up several points.
Simple answer = yes

1. What power? The US government? the state government? the local government?
There's no 'power' necesarry to be racist.
2. Is calling a black person "******" the same thing as calling a white person "cracker"?
yes
3. Why do liberals have to refer to everything as "(insert word here) Americans." ?
'cause they're stupid?
Rudolph the Red-nosed Rangifer Tarandus American?
4. Can minorities really be racist?
And again yes.

By the way, if there are any Brits here could you tell me whether this race-problem is the same in the UK? I actually am in LOVE with England and English culture and would like to move there some day. Maybe I won't have to deal with being labeled all the time there. :( *sigh*

I wouldn't count on it. One thing I've realized is that you'll find the same human temperaments wherever you are in the world.

*gasp* That sure sucks for me. It seems that I cannot find peace anywhere I go! *cries*

*snip*
I'm just wondering why you quoted my extremely sarcastic post...were you taking it seriously?

*gasp* That sure sucks for me. It seems that I cannot find peace anywhere I go! *cries*
There are degrees, and there are degrees. Canada has a many thriving latino communities, and there is little 'reason' here for people to discriminate against them. Of course, if you venture out into the almost all-white rural areas, you'll stick out like a sore thumb...but that's slowly changing as well. My small town, full of white-blonde Dutch people, now has six latino families, mine among them (my husband is Chilean, and our kids are half).

In any case, generally in Canada, latinos are seen as 'exotic' at worst. If you can stand the weather, I'd consider immigrating!

Yes I actually did take it seriously sowy...I wasn't paying much attention at the time I was fairly outraged. As far as Canada goes, I wanted to move there too for some time...but I think I like the idea of Europe better. And I really wouldn't mind the climate. I'm a cold weather kind of person anyway and I grew up in Oregon where it's always raining so I'm used to it. It's hilarious that latinos there are considered "exotic" wouldn't that be fun! :)

You know, everytime I get into an argument about racisim, usually with a liberal. The liberal says "Well minorities can't be racist because they don't have the power." You know, I usually just end the coverstation right there because listening to that is like running into a brick wall. This raises up several points.

1. What power? The US government? the state government? the local government?

2. Is calling a black person "******" the same thing as calling a white person "cracker"?

3. Why do liberals have to refer to everything as "(insert word here) Americans." ?

4. Can minorities really be racist?

0. On this implicit assumption: minorities can have power, and in many countries they do. For example, in Finland, there are Finland-Swedes, many of whom have inherited wealth. A lot of bigotry and thinking Swedish-speakers are "better people" is found. Other examples are South Africa (powerful whites, poor blacks) and Saddam's old Iraq (powerful Sunnis, oppressed Shi'ites). Furthermore, minorities can have local power.

1. How about the power to decide who to employ? In France, we have a situation where you can't get a job, if you're from an immigrant neighborhood.

2. Yep, minorities can be racist, too. Neither minority or majority is right if it's racist.

3. Because American nations have no roots. Various people came there and just made up some nation-state identities.

4. The only question is whether is matters.

Mmm, minorities!

Yes, minorities can be racist. Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, the NAACP, and the Black Panthers being obvious examples.

Yes, of course.

Although they are not in a position to enforce their racism, it can be racism nonetheless.

*ditto*

Being racist has to do with what you think and the way you treat others who are different, anyone can do that...

1. What power? The US government? The state government? The local government?

I get the impression he's thinking of Institutional Racism, which is racism on a different scale where the institution may have structured themselves in order to discourage certain races or may simply refer to racial discrimination by such large organizations with the power to influence the lives of many individuals.

That said though, it's hard for a minority to be institutionally racist when there simply may not be enough of them to really have that sort of influence. I dare say that if you look hard enough you could probably find examples though... afterall, just because you are black, white or whatever doesn't mean you aren't human; given the right circumstances racism can and occasionally will occur.

2. Is calling a black person "******" the same thing as calling a white person "cracker"?

Context. That's what this racism business is all about, context. I'm sure there are many people from all kinds of minorities that could tell you that even being completely and utterly politically correct when refering to someones race, it can be said in such a way that is meant to be offencive. Racism isn't about words, it's about meaning. The problem is that meaning has always been hard to disern.

Afterall, some people don't mind being called "******" when it's clearly not meant to offend... of course, that doesn't mean it's appropriate. I can easily call my friend "you fat fuck" and it could be taken with a smile... but saying it to a stranger isn't appropriate as they would probably assume my meaning was to offend.

So yeah, given the right context I would say that "cracker" is just as bad as "******".

3. Why do liberals have to refer to everything as "(insert word here) Americans."?

Counter-question: Why do people incist on using the sterotypical tag "liberal" as a way to refer to themselves or other people? In some senses I would concider myself to be a liberal person... but I don't agree with many policies which may be labled by some as "liberal".

But thats another discussion... why do a fairly large number of people incist on using America as their example? Simple really, because America is the most powerful country around today... or at the very least the most publically known country, I'm sure some people will argue "powerful".

They don't always hate America, or perhaps they think they do... but really it's just the easiest example to use. Personally I would concider it almost a complement as it just goes to show how much influence America actually has if people really give a damn about it's laws and lifestyle. I know it's not always welcome attention, but it's not like they made much effort to keep to themselves.

Of course, when people say "America" they don't always say exactly what they mean. It could be anything, from the American People to the American Catholics to the American Government. If I were you I would ask who they mean by "America" in the future, they could just be refering to a specific group that may not even be limited to America.

4. Can minorities really be racist? Yes... really that is a no-brainer.

I can't understand anyone who would suggest that just because you are classified (for whatever reason) as a minority you can't be racist. I could understand if it was argued that maybe minorities are less racist because have dealt with racism first hand... but I would need to see evidence to beleive that their entire community is without racism.

Racism is racism regardless of whether you are within a minority or majority.