NationStates Jolt Archive

COMMENTARY: The fact that so many Cubans are willing to risk death to make it to the US indicates that Fidel Castro's "Worker's Paradise" is anything but. I would like to see this "wet foot, dry foot" policy change.


Tensions Rise as More Flee Cuba for U.S. (http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/18/national/18cubans.html?th&emc=th)


BY ABBY GOODNOUGH
Published: December 18, 2005
MIAMI, Dec. 17 - The number of Cubans intercepted at sea while trying to reach the United States is at its highest level since tens of thousands took to the Florida Straits on makeshift rafts and in small boats in the 1994 exodus sanctioned by President Fidel Castro.

The sharp rise - and an increase in clashes between would-be immigrants and the Coast Guard - are inflaming tensions over a policy enacted in response to the 1994 migration that allows Cubans without visas to stay if they reach American soil but turns back those caught at sea.

The "wet foot, dry foot" policy, which does not apply to any other immigrant group, is being blamed by critics for at least 39 deaths this year in the Florida Straits and is testing the resolve of the Coast Guard, which the critics say has become too aggressive in enforcing the restrictions.

In offering a permanent escape to Cubans who make it here, they say, the policy encourages them to risk their lives.

Coast Guard data show that as of Friday, 2,683 Cubans had been intercepted at sea this year, nearly double the number for all of 2004. And while the high season for migrant crossings, when the sailing tends to be smoothest, is already past, scores have kept trying the journey despite the perils.

Some of the migrants, hoping to avoid confrontations with Coast Guard patrols, are taking unusual routes, to the United States Virgin Islands and the Gulf Coast of Florida. A fast-growing number - including 6,744 counted by Customs and Border Patrol in the fiscal year that ended in September - are entering the United States by slipping across the Mexican border, often after sailing some 500 miles to Honduras from Cuba.

The State Department says the new wave of migrants is a result of increasingly repressive policies in Cuba, the island's crumbling economy and Mr. Castro's refusal to let more Cubans sign up for a lottery under which the United States is supposed to grant 20,000 visas a year.

But some Cuban-Americans in South Florida say that new limits on their visits and on the money they can send to relatives on the island, imposed by the Bush administration last year, have led to greater desperation among many Cubans.

Ever more aggressive smuggling has also played a role. Far more Cubans are making it to American shores, including, for example, 14 migrants discovered near a parking lot on Marco Island, Fla., a few days after Thanksgiving. About 2,530 completed the journey to South Florida in the last fiscal year, compared with 954 the year before, according to the Border Patrol.

"The message to Cuban families is that if you don't want to wait in line, your relatives in Miami can pay $8,000 and you've got a good chance to make it here," said Philip Peters, a Cuba analyst at the Lexington Institute, a research group in Washington. "It really is a glaring exception in the whole homeland security policy."

One incident this fall perhaps best encapsulated the growing resolve of Cubans to slip into this country and of the federal government to keep them out.

Florida television audiences watched as government agents struggled to keep 10 migrants in a homemade metal vessel from reaching the beach just north of Miami after a Customs and Border Protection boat bumped it hard enough to spill some of the migrants overboard. Coast Guard boats had also sprayed the vessel with a hose and tried stalling its engine with a rope during a prolonged showdown with the migrants, all men.

"We are needlessly putting innocent lives at risk," said Cheryl Little, executive director of the Florida Immigrant Advocacy Center, which helps Cuban and other migrants pursue asylum claims. "Our Coast Guard is being put in the untenable position of endangering lives in order to keep people from reaching our shores."

Luis Diaz, a spokesman for the Coast Guard in Miami, said that the agency's tactics had not become more aggressive but that unlike in the past, it was working closely with agencies like Customs and Border Protection since becoming part of the Department of Homeland Security in 2002.

"We are working better and smarter with our partners," Mr. Diaz said. "Before we were in Homeland Security we had different radios, different frequencies, and now we are working together behind the same equipment."

The number of Cubans being intercepted is by far the highest since 1994, when 37,000 took to the Florida Straits after Mr. Castro announced that his government would no longer stop boats or rafts leaving the island. It was a hostile move against the United States and a way for Mr. Castro to divert attention from his domestic problems and quell an uprising against him on the island, similar to when he let 125,000 Cubans leave in the Mariel boatlift of 1980.

The 1994 exodus led the United States and Cuba to agree on the wet foot, dry foot policy in 1995, ending this country's longtime practice of admitting all Cuban migrants as refugees.

[ This article is two pages long. To read the rest of the article, go here (http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/18/national/18cubans.html?pagewanted=2&th&emc=th). ]

COMMENTARY: The fact that so many Cubans are willing to risk death to make it to the US indicates that Fidel Castro's "Worker's Paradise" is anything but. I would like to see this "wet foot, dry foot" policy change.





I'm afraid that most of the "educated" posters here will refuse to believe that Cuba is a crappy place, afterall, a "Communist" nation that thumbs it's nose at the US can't be bad. Can it?

I'm afraid that most of the "educated" posters here will refuse to believe that Cuba is a crappy place, afterall, a "Communist" nation that thumbs it's nose at the US can't be bad. Can it?
Riiiight! :rolleyes:

All I can say is, we gotta end the embargo. The only thing it does is cause Cubans to die trying to illegally immigrate. Every other country is trading with and investing in Cuba anyway, so the original purpose of the embargo, to "starve" Castro out, is not going to work. As much as I don't agree with Castro's policies at all, I beleve we should just give the Cuban economy the significant boost of American investment and tourism, which hopefully will eventually improve the lives of average Cubans.

All I can say is, we gotta end the embargo. The only thing it does is cause Cubans to die trying to illegally immigrate. Every other country is trading with and investing in Cuba anyway, so the original purpose of the embargo, to "starve" Castro out, is not going to work. As much as I don't agree with Castro's policies at all, I beleve we should just give the Cuban economy the significant boost of American investment and tourism, which hopefully will eventually improve the lives of average Cubans.
I tend to agree with this. Enough is enough. Besides, the ill will between the US and Cuba all began with a simple misunderstanding between Castro and Eisenhower. :(

What we need to do is kill Fidel Castro and declare Cuba part of the United States and allow the Cubans a chance at true democracy and a stable economy.

This should of been done YEARS ago but we haven't had the resolve to do so, maybe if we pulled out of Iraq we could launch a small scale invasion of Cuba and eliminate the Communist Party in Cuba.

An annoyance gone, a grateful people, EVERYONE can be happy, other than the filthy commies.

Also, I personally (and I'm sure many Americans would agree), would be intrigued at the oppertunity to visit Cuba. It could become the next "It" destination for Americans in the Caribbean, especially because of the "off limits" mystique that's surrounded it for so long.

Also, I personally (and I'm sure many Americans would agree), would be intrigued at the oppertunity to visit Cuba. It could become the next "It" destination for Americans in the Caribbean, especially because of the "off limits" mystique that's surrounded it for so long.
Not to mention the fact that Cuban cigars are fantastic, as are many Cuban women! :D

Bleh! Cigars. Forgot about those. Hate the smell SOOOO much. Oh well...

What we need to do is kill Fidel Castro and declare Cuba part of the United States and allow the Cubans a chance at true democracy and a stable economy.

This should of been done YEARS ago but we haven't had the resolve to do so, maybe if we pulled out of Iraq we could launch a small scale invasion of Cuba and eliminate the Communist Party in Cuba.

An annoyance gone, a grateful people, EVERYONE can be happy, other than the filthy commies.

You've tried to kill him. And by "you" I mean "the American government." Their economy is stable, it just isn't strong (actually, it's rather weak, but I don't see you using that as an argument in favor of conquering Mexico or Zimbabwe). And, as an aside, "eliminating" any political party, even if it disagrees with your beliefs, is hardly democratic. Um, and invading Cuba would be an international incident somewhere on the level of invading Canada, simply because Cuba has been smart enough to get itself some global-level attention both politically and otherwise (Summer Olympic Games come to mind).

Sincerely,

Number III

Bleh! Cigars. Forgot about those. Hate the smell SOOOO much. Oh well...
[ blows thick cigar smoke in NYC's face! ] Mwahahahaha! :D

Not to mention the fact that Cuban cigars are fantastic, as are many Cuban women! :D
Speaking from Experience Eut? ;)

Surely the best way for the US to get rid of Castro would be for it to drop the embargo? In would flow capitalism, whether Fidel liked it or not.

You've tried to kill him.

Didn't try very hard, apparently.

You've tried to kill him. And by "you" I mean "the American government." Their economy is stable, it just isn't strong (actually, it's rather weak, but I don't see you using that as an argument in favor of conquering Mexico or Zimbabwe). And, as an aside, "eliminating" any political party, even if it disagrees with your beliefs, is hardly democratic. Um, and invading Cuba would be an international incident somewhere on the level of invading Canada, simply because Cuba has been smart enough to get itself some global-level attention both politically and otherwise (Summer Olympic Games come to mind).

Sincerely,

Number III

Neither is being presidente for life. However, I doubt America right now has much room to talk about democracy with the Bush Monster still loose and listening in.

Death to Caesar.
SH.

As I keep posting, a one nation embargo cannot work,
so the embargo has not worked, but guess what, trade,
tourists and diplomatic relations have not worked either.

Over 2,00,000 tourists mostly from Europe and Latin America
visit Cuba each year, and stay in tourist zones, hotels for
tourists only, eat in restaurants for tourists only, shop in
stores for tourists only, get healtcare in hospitals for tourists only,
and the privileged governing elite.

The only thing left of the so-called embargo is a lack of American loans and credits while Cuba receives loans and credits from other nations
of which it owes billions of Dollars $ worth.

The so-called embargo has a big hole, Cuba buys millions of Dollars $ worth
of goods from the USA each year on a cash as you buy basis.

American subsidiary companys all over the world trade
with the Cuban government and hard currency stores are
filled with American brand products.

Foreign companys that invest in Cuba pay the Cuban government
in hard currency per worker, the Cuban government pays the workers in
Cuban pesos, alot less than if the company would pay the worker directly
a cuban government employment agency hires and fires the workers, and
they are not allowed to strike or demand anything.

Part of the production is re-exported to other nations,
part goes to hotels and restuarants for tourists only and
part to the hard currency stores, with the foreign company
and the Cuban government sharing the profits as agreed.

Most cubans survive on the extensive illegal black market.

Government hard currency stores sell to the Cuban people
in Cuban Convertible Pesos, that is hard currency
sent to Cubans by thier overseas relatives exchanged for
Cuban Convertible Pesos by the Cuban government.

Cubans do not trade directly with other nations or people,
foreign companys do not sell directly to the Cuban people,
the Cuban government does under its own rules.

All legal civil social organizations are under government run control.

All this trade, tourists and diplomatic relations
and the Cuban Dictatorship Government has not changed its ways,
and the life of the average Cuban has not improved.

Does anyone here believe Cuban Citizens can ask thier
elected representatives in the National Assembly that
meets twice a year or when convened by President Dictator
Fidel Castro for life to change any of these laws?

Wow, I guess all those OMGUBER medical policies and educational policies are just that good eh? People's paradise indeed...

Lets face it, if Castro was buddy buddy with the US then the left would hate Castro and deannounce him as a bloody dictator.

I also think that the castro was not a socialist to began with, but he was certainly a revolutionary. However during the cold war, broad social and economical reforms branded you a communist. When this happens then you will have to look for other places to get aid. This usually ment the Soviet Union and therefore Cuba had to follow the authoritarian socialist model instead of a democratic socialist or capitalist model.

This black and white model really messed up the world. Otherwise i think Cuba, Guatamala, Chile, Vietnam and China might have turned out to be much better places. While still remaining socialist, they may have remained open to western capital and investment and also became democratic nations.

What we need to do is kill Fidel Castro
Erm, we tried that, several times I think. It didn't work out.

Castro was giving a speech in front of a multitude of his people. He began by praising the achievements of his nation in providing free education but was interrupted by a man yelling "Peanuts, Popcorn, ice cold drinks"

Castro resumed speaking. This time denouncing the US for it's efforts to depose him. He was once again interrupted by the man yelling "Peanuts, Popcorn, Ice cold drinks!"

Castro, losing his temper yelled out "The next capitalist pig to interrupt me is getting deported!"

The entire crowd yelled "Peanuts, Popcorn, Ice cold drinks!"

Wow, I guess all those OMGUBER medical policies and educational policies are just that good eh? People's paradise indeed...

My sentiments exactly.

I think we need to ask the people who think that Cuba is so great and so wonderful and so socialist, why anyone would want to leave?

I'm afraid that most of the "educated" posters here will refuse to believe that Cuba is a crappy place, afterall, a "Communist" nation that thumbs it's nose at the US can't be bad. Can it?
I am probably one of the most “educated” (I assume by that attempted insult by “educated” you mean college student)people on the forum (I am sure there are a few Dr.s around though)

And I don't agree with with the line of thought you attempted to apply to the entire “educated” group

Maybe you could use some of that “education” as well ... a rounded learning experience may help you avoid some of the simplistic logical and argumentative errors you made.

My sentiments exactly.

I think we need to ask the people who think that Cuba is so great and so wonderful and so socialist, why anyone would want to leave?

What about the ones who say Cuba ain't so hot because the US refuses to trade with it. lift that and suddenly there's a hell of a lot of money all lined up to flow into Cuba.

Castro will die soon, best medical service in the world or no, if you keep with your god-awful embargo then someone else can use the 'siege mentality' and you'll have another bloody Castro on your hands.

If you ed it then investment will flow in and alongside the strong social programmes can help lift the burdens of poverty in the country.

Or you could keep saying "OMFG!! TEH EBIL COMMIES!!11!!1one!" and nothing really changes, or if it does you get nothing out of it save Cuba blowing rasberries at you...

What about the ones who say Cuba ain't so hot because the US refuses to trade with it. lift that and suddenly there's a hell of a lot of money all lined up to flow into Cuba.

Castro will die soon, best medical service in the world or no, if you keep with your god-awful embargo then someone else can use the 'siege mentality' and you'll have another bloody Castro on your hands.

If you ed it then investment will flow in and alongside the strong social programmes can help lift the burdens of poverty in the country.

Or you could keep saying "OMFG!! TEH EBIL COMMIES!!11!!1one!" and nothing really changes, or if it does you get nothing out of it save Cuba blowing rasberries at you...

From what I've noticed, our embargo has little effect on Cuba's international trade.

Also, the number one import from Cuba to the US used to be sugar. Originally, the US switched to sugar made from sugar beets grown in the US, but other nations continued to produce cane sugar as well.

The international market in sugar, even if you discount the US production, is so great that sugar is in oversupply. So much oversupply that Cuba has had to close down most of its sugar production permanently. Castro says that Cuba has to switch to something else.

Even if we lifted the embargo now, there would be little we could buy from Cuba. In the end, it will be as poor as Haiti, due to a complete lack of natural resources or anything of interest other than tourism.

Speaking from Experience Eut? ;)
Noooo comment! :p

I do not think that Cuba is paradise, or anywhere near that (and this not only because of the embargo, although the embargo alone would be a pretty good excuse).

Let me point this out (even the article in the op does it!). The mounting death toll is, first and foremost, the responsability of the US gvt., who maintained a policy so twisted as the "wet/dry foot" in order to:

a. get control over immigation - which, in this instance, PROVED TO BE AS MUCH OF A PROBLEM FOR FLORIDA AS IT WAS FOR CUBA
b. precisely these publicity stunts once in a while

Before you start posting again the same capitalism vs. dictatorship old rethoric, let me ask you this: does it matter that Cuba is a dictatorship or whatever when:
-Mexico is not, but Mexicans immigrate to the US
-the Haitians, with or without military rule, have taken greater risks than most Cubans to get to the US
-every large-scale economy creates its periphery but does not mantain it (and complains when it has to deal with "the refuse")

Before you start posting again the same capitalism vs. dictatorship old rethoric, let me ask you this: does it matter that Cuba is a dictatorship or whatever when:
-Mexico is not, but Mexicans immigrate to the US
-the Haitians, with or without military rule, have taken greater risks than most Cubans to get to the US
-every large-scale economy creates its periphery but does not mantain it (and complains when it has to deal with "the refuse")
That's not nearly as fun to think about as claiming that Cuba is a hellhole people can't wait to leave. Really people...you should visit Haiti and redefine your definition of 'hellhole'.

I also think that the castro was not a socialist to began with, but he was certainly a revolutionary.

Castro was a communist since at least 1948, when he played a major role in the Bogotazo (sp?), a bloody and violent uprising that occurred in Bogota, Colombia that year. The American ambassador heard Fidel Castro say over the radio, "This is Fidel Castro from Cuba. This is a communist revolution." Read, for example, Red Star Over Cuba by Nathaniel Weyl.

Otherwise i think Cuba, Guatamala, Chile, Vietnam and China might have turned out to be much better places. While still remaining socialist, they may have remained open to western capital and investment and also became democratic nations.

Vietnam, Cuba, and China are not democratic. They remain Stalinist totalitarian hellholes to this day.

That's not nearly as fun to think about as claiming that Cuba is a hellhole people can't wait to leave. Really people...you should visit Haiti and redefine your definition of 'hellhole'.

I don't have to claim it. There seem to be plenty of Cubans voting with their lives.

I don't have to claim it. There seem to be plenty of Cubans voting with their lives.
So are many people who entrust their lives to coyotes...even though they've heard the stories about women being forced into prositution. This whole argument makes it sound like only people from Cuba are risking life and limb to make it to the US. Hardly the case.

Castro will die soon, best medical service in the world or no, if you keep with your god-awful embargo then someone else can use the 'siege mentality' and you'll have another bloody Castro on your hands.

Some medical service. Filthy, roach-infested hospitals, bathrooms covered in shit, several decades out of date medical equipment, medicine shortages, etc.

Haitians die trying to reach the US (http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/americas/02/19/haiti.boat.people.ap/)

A total of 1,948 Haitians have been found at sea and returned home in 2004. (http://www.usatoday.com/news/2004-04-28-coast-guard-haiti_x.htm)

Other immigrants dying to get to the US (http://usinfo.state.gov/eap/east_asia_pacific/chinese_human_smuggling/smuggling_in_the_press/scams_abuse_deaths.html)

So are many people who entrust their lives to coyotes...even though they've heard the stories about women being forced into prositution. This whole argument makes it sound like only people from Cuba are risking life and limb to make it to the US. Hardly the case.
No, they're not the only people.

But if Cuba is so great, and so wonderful, why are they drowning in attempts to get to the US?

Or, I can put it this way.

If Cuba is such a great place, full of freedom and free medical care, why aren't US citizens drowning trying to swim to Cuba?

No, they're not the only people.

But if Cuba is so great, and so wonderful, why are they drowning in attempts to get to the US?

Or, I can put it this way.

If Cuba is such a great place, full of freedom and free medical care, why aren't US citizens drowning trying to swim to Cuba?
Because poverty will inspire people to seek opportunity elsewhere. Regardless of the political system. That is the common denominator here...not living under 'communism' or living under 'capitalism'...the people risking their lives to get to the US, or Europe are fleeing poverty. No one is claiming Cubans are not poor...but Haiti is still the poorest nation in the Western Hemisphere, and capitalism hasn't made a damn difference. All this talk about Cubans 'escaping' Cuba is always slanted to mean 'Cubans are escaping Communism'...but anyone else dying to reach the US is just 'fleeing poverty'. It's the same damn motivation...but those not fleeing 'communism' don't fit into the anti-communist rhetoric as nicely.

No, they're not the only people.

But if Cuba is so great, and so wonderful, why are they drowning in attempts to get to the US?

Or, I can put it this way.

If Cuba is such a great place, full of freedom and free medical care, why aren't US citizens drowning trying to swim to Cuba?
You over-simplify the differences between the two countries
Capitalism and socialism are not the only differences

I am no fan of socialism but there are plenty of borderline if not completely socialist nations thats citizens are NOT dying to come over here

So maybe it is some other factor or combination of factors

Because poverty will inspire people to seek opportunity elsewhere. Regardless of the political system. That is the common denominator here...not living under 'communism' or living under 'capitalism'...the people risking their lives to get to the US, or Europe are fleeing poverty. No one is claiming Cubans are not poor...but Haiti is still the poorest nation in the Western Hemisphere, and capitalism hasn't made a damn difference. All this talk about Cubans 'escaping' Cuba is always slanted to mean 'Cubans are escaping Communism'...but anyone else dying to reach the US is just 'fleeing poverty'. It's the same damn motivation...but those not fleeing 'communism' don't fit into the anti-communist rhetoric as nicely.

Communism doesn't seem to make a difference, either.

No, they're not the only people.

But if Cuba is so great, and so wonderful, why are they drowning in attempts to get to the US?

Or, I can put it this way.

If Cuba is such a great place, full of freedom and free medical care, why aren't US citizens drowning trying to swim to Cuba?

Let me formulate that for you:

medical care=national revenue+paperwork
embargo=medical care-revenue => embargo=paperwork
still:
Haiti=Cuba-paperwork-some other things (including education and respectable life expectancy)

Now:
Immigration to the US (under ALL circumstances, from EVERY place)=80% arrivism/opportunism (of which 70%=encouraged and then repressed by the US)+15% proximity+5%political conditions.

My country (Romania - you might have heard of it, it's in NATO), has comparable levels of emigration, even though our situation cannot possibly be considered precarious.

Communism doesn't seem to make a difference, either.That's impossible to prove. Unless you have access to an alternate universe in which Cuba stayed capitalist, and then compared the two.

So maybe it is some other factor or combination of factors

One of them being that Cuba isn't merely socialist. It's Stalinist.

That's impossible to prove. Unless you have access to an alternate universe in which Cuba stayed capitalist, and then compared the two.
Then you can't prove that capitalism was any different. If I have to accept your statements that capitalism didn't do other countries any good, then you'll have to accept my statements that communism didn't do Cuba any good.

One of them being that Cuba isn't merely socialist. It's Stalinist.
Wow. Way to get extreme on our asses. I can not believe even you, my lovely Roach Buster, would compare someone who was responsible for the Holodomor, to Castro. What's next? Comparing Bush to Hitler? Ridiculous.

Edit:And sorry...I realise you said Stalinist, not "Castro is Stalin"...but I can't help but link Stalinism to Stalin. If you are not in fact comparing the two, you have my apologies...with a request to clarify what aspects of Castro's Cuba you think are Stalinist.

Then you can't prove that capitalism was any different. If I have to accept your statements that capitalism didn't do other countries any good, then you'll have to accept my statements that communism didn't do Cuba any good.
My statments were not that capitalism didn't do any good, and therefore is bad, but rather that the argument that people are leaving Cuba because of communism is false. If communism were the main factor, people in capitalist nations wouldn't be leaving in droves as well. Poverty is more of a motivation than political systems...and NEITHER system guarantees economic well-being. So instead of picking out this one sentence:
Because poverty will inspire people to seek opportunity elsewhere. Regardless of the political system. That is the common denominator here...not living under 'communism' or living under 'capitalism'...the people risking their lives to get to the US, or Europe are fleeing poverty. No one is claiming Cubans are not poor...but Haiti is still the poorest nation in the Western Hemisphere, and capitalism hasn't made a damn difference. All this talk about Cubans 'escaping' Cuba is always slanted to mean 'Cubans are escaping Communism'...but anyone else dying to reach the US is just 'fleeing poverty'. It's the same damn motivation...but those not fleeing 'communism' don't fit into the anti-communist rhetoric as nicely. and taking it out of context, and arguing that, why don't you read the entire quote?

Y'know, if we send them all back, they'd probably stop trying so hard. I mean, I'm not a fan of the embargo and the last vestiges of the Red Scare myself, but why do Cubans get special treatment when Mexicans get dumped back across the border?

Y'know, if we send them all back, they'd probably stop trying so hard. I mean, I'm not a fan of the embargo and the last vestiges of the Red Scare myself, but why do Cubans get special treatment when Mexicans get dumped back across the border?
Because Cubans face being imprisoned if they're sent back. Mexicans just have to save up some more money to buy another trip across the border.

Because Cubans face being imprisoned if they're sent back. Mexicans just have to save up some more money to buy another trip across the border.
Yeah...that's really what's stopping you bleeding heart USians:D

Is it true that their citizenship is revoked if they leave Cuba without permission?

Because Cubans face being imprisoned if they're sent back. Mexicans just have to save up some more money to buy another trip across the border.
If our intentions are truly "humanitarian," why are we currently sending back the ones found at sea? They're still going to jail when they get back.

Castro was a communist since at least 1948, when he played a major role in the Bogotazo (sp?), a bloody and violent uprising that occurred in Bogota, Colombia that year. The American ambassador heard Fidel Castro say over the radio, "This is Fidel Castro from Cuba. This is a communist revolution." Read, for example, Red Star Over Cuba by Nathaniel Weyl.
I had no idea, I will read up on it.

Vietnam, Cuba, and China are not democratic. They remain Stalinist totalitarian hellholes to this day.

I never said they are, i said they MAY have become. Although I disagree with the term "Stalinist totalitarian Hellholes". I don't think that discribes China and Vietnam today. China is neither Stalinist or Totalitarian anymore. In fact it is moving in the same direction as Taiwan and South Korea.