NationStates Jolt Archive

Is anyone here vegatarian or vegan. I'm a border line vegan, I don't eat fish, eggs,milk, I barely consume anything from an animal, and I do not use any product with something from an animal,and I do not use any product tested on animals. Every once in awhile I might have some dairy but thats it. I'm also against using animals for entertainment. Anyways is anyone else here an animal rights advocate?

The cow would eat you if it had the chance!

I am an advocate for the animals right to be eaten by me. I mean that darwin guys survival of the fittest puts humans right up there at the top as the fitest. Its only natural for us to eat em.

No it wouldn't. Cows are herbivores, people are omnivores. The cow will not eat the person, the person will eat the cow.

I am an eater of meat. I have disdain for moral vegetarians since for the most part, they advocate positions of hypocrisy and tend to accuse me of being a murderer.

Amen Santa Barbara my sister is one, you can't live with them.

No it wouldn't. Cows are herbivores, people are omnivores. The cow will not eat the person, the person will eat the cow.

You kidding. You put sheep brains in front of a cow it will happily eat it.

Anyway fox's go round eating rabbits half alive. Storms and bad weather leave some animals to starve to death ect..

Cows and other animals lead a bovine pretty pointless existance as it goes, I know its pretty inhumane and lacks compassion but I enjoy meat and good food I'd dislike a vegitarian diet. And the loss of some animals doesn't strike me as much of a loss.

I am an eater of meat. I have disdain for moral vegetarians since for the most part, they advocate positions of hypocrisy and tend to accuse me of being a murderer.


I'm a vegetarian but I don't accuse those who aren't of commiting murder! I'm fine with other people eating meat it's just that I choose not to. No big deal really...

then you aren't a big big enviromentalist animal rights equality activist.

Well I feel since the meat industry is dominated by factory farms, which are cruel and inhumane, giving up meat is a small sacrafice that helps tha animals being abused and tortured.

http://www.goveg.com/factoryFarming.asp

Just watch how animals are treated.

Also, many of the animals you eat, are smart, many more so then cats and dogs, so are you willing to eat cats and dogs?

I was a lacto-ovo vegetarian for almost a decade. I tried hard to balance my nutritional demands, but had a lot of trouble gaining weight. I've been eating meat for almost 4 years now, and feel (and look) better.
I gained 25 lbs within the first 6 months I started eating meat again, and have no plans on returning to that diet.

its not hard to doctor video's.

I'm a semi-vegetarian, but not for the same reasons. The most common reasons for people being vegans/vegetarians are "Omg teh pore lil aminal! I cn'at hurt u!", "Cows are kept in pens all their lives and their milk, which should go to their babies, is taken away, and chickens can't have their eggs taken away, they're supposed to reproduce and be happy, and even fish have the right to live in peace!", and "Look at all the suffering of those animals being raised by (corporation here)! I refuse to stand for this."

Now, for the first, that's ridiculous. You think that eating your vegetables and bread doesn't kill animals? What about all the ground-dwelling critters, like bunnies and gophers and such, that get killed every year when harvest time comes around because they got stuck in the machinery? What about the billions of insects that die from the pesticides used on grocery market foods? What about the beneficial insects that are killed by those pesticides? Are you saying that a few cows and chickens are more important than the very foundation of an ecosystem?

For the second one, do you know how many chickens there are in the world? Do you know how many eggs are produced every DAY that never hatch, even when there are roosters in the pen with the chickens? Would you rather those eggs, a valuable source of protein and good nutrients for the human body, just sit and rot in the nests? No, with the amount of eggs laid every day by chickens around the world, it would be a complete and utter waste not to eat them. The cows and their milk? Not all the milk could be drunk by the calves, and it's not like there aren't a good portion of calves being raised to maturity. And you'd be VERY surprised just how happy those cows are. They're treated better than most humans. And fish produce hundreds, even thousands of eggs at a time. Even if many of those eggs never make it to maturity, fish are still plenty enough that we needn't worry about their being able to replenish their stocks, and fish are happy as long as they're in water and have food to eat.

For the third one, congratulations. Some companies (who will remain unnamed) keep their animals in extremely poor conditions for their whole lives, torture the poor things just so the company can make a few more dollars off the sale of the animals as food. THAT is the best reason to be any level of vegetarian. Just don't make the mistake of thinking that all major meat companies are like this. Like the milk cows, they're treated better than many humans so that their growth isn't impeded by stress and such.


*Note that this is just my opinion, although I'd like to think that it's well-informed, and I don't mean to offend anyone who is a vegetarian/vegan for reasons 1 or 2, just to point out the flaws in their logic as I see it.

Also, many of the animals you eat, are smart, many more so then cats and dogs, so are you willing to eat cats and dogs?

...if cats and dogs happen to make for tasty burgers, yes!

I'm a vegan, and I agree with you on all points.
You won't find too many other supporters on this board, unfortunatly.

Also, don't call yourself a fucking vegan unless you really mean it. No cheating. No Doritos or any other foods (almost everything packaged) that contain animal byproducts in their ingredients. Being truly vegan requires lots of effort and study, because many of those words on the food labels you don't understand are really fancy terms for things derived from animals. Most of the so-called vegans you meet are nothing but wannabe, ignorant trendies looking to raise an eyebrow. Also, make sure to check everything you wear, drive and use to make sure that they're completely animal-free.
Doing otherwise just makes you another vegetarian, not vegan. You wanna use the term, fuckin' earn it.

I was a lacto-ovo vegetarian for almost a decade. I tried hard to balance my nutritional demands, but had a lot of trouble gaining weight. I've been eating meat for almost 4 years now, and feel (and look) better.
I gained 25 lbs within the first 6 months I started eating meat again, and have no plans on returning to that diet.

Really? I ate meat until I was 13, and I felt like crap while eating meat. Now i've been nearly animal product free for 8 years, and i feel so much healthier.

http://www.goveg.com/factoryFarming.asp

Just watch how animals are treated.

Also, many of the animals you eat, are smart, many more so then cats and dogs, so are you willing to eat cats and dogs?

I'd eat chimpanzee if it tasted good.

Honestly, the whole vegan thing is silly. Man has always eaten animals, and always will.

You'd be better off worrying about slavery or something else worthwhile.

Really? I ate meat until I was 13, and I felt like crap while eating meat. Now i've been nearly animal product free for 8 years, and i feel so much healthier.
Are you prone to obesity, or just a chunkier weight? Or are you a beanpole like me? I'd reccomend a whole lot of Americans to cut out a lot of meat from their diets simply because they're fat. Diets are a personal thing.

For the third one, congratulations. Some companies (who will remain unnamed) keep their animals in extremely poor conditions for their whole lives, torture the poor things just so the company can make a few more dollars off the sale of the animals as food. THAT is the best reason to be any level of vegetarian. Just don't make the mistake of thinking that all major meat companies are like this. Like the milk cows, they're treated better than many humans so that their growth isn't impeded by stress and such.


Animals fed well and lack stress/anxiety tend to taste a fair bit better so its still in the companys best interest (if they want to provide a quality product) to treat its animals reasonably well (better than some humans even). I'll agree animals are still caged to avoid losing weight but I can't exacly imagine animals being too bord or lonly.

A happy pig is a tasty pig.

thats probably because you think your doing something good. But the biggest argument that vegans (or vegetarians) use is that it isn't natural for humans to eat meat. How the fuck do they know what natural is? Then they argue for the damn trees not to cut them down because it isn't natural. Again how do they know what natural is? Here's the deal NO ONE KNOWS WHAT NATURAL IS BECAUSE NO ONE CAN SEE AN ALTERNATE FUTURE WHERE MAN ISN'T IN EXISTENCE!!!!

So yes eating meat is natural, no it doesn't matter how their killed because when a cat kills a mouse it plays with it first (which is basically torture) so however we kill animals now is just our naturally developed way of hunting/killing.

Also, don't call yourself a fucking vegan unless you really mean it. No cheating. No Doritos or any other foods (almost everything packaged) that contain animal byproducts in their ingredients. Being truly vegan requires lots of effort and study, because many of those words on the food labels you don't understand are really fancy terms for things derived from animals. Most of the so-called vegans you meet are nothing but wannabe, ignorant trendies looking to raise an eyebrow. Also, make sure to check everything you wear, drive and use to make sure that they're completely animal-free.
Doing otherwise just makes you another vegetarian, not vegan. You wanna use the term, fuckin' earn it.


Calm down, who are you yelling at? I've done so much research, i've read books and i've done essays on it, I shop for shoes at a vegan store, I buy from vegan stores, I have not eaten a bag of doritos in years, I won't even go to a mcdonalds, I don't even go to major grocery stores.

-snip condescending, pompous, pretentious rant-
Those are not the most common reasons that people become vegetarians.
Why should it matter to you why people eat or don't eat anything anyway?

*Note that this is just my opinion, although I'd like to think that it's well-informed, and I don't mean to offend anyone who is a vegetarian/vegan for reasons 1 or 2, just to point out the flaws in their logic as I see it.It's not.

Do you know what my favourite food is? MEAT, MEAT, AND MORE MEAT!

Those are not the most common reasons that people become vegetarians.
Why should it matter to you why people eat or don't eat anything anyway?

It's not.
I've never met a vegetarian that wasn't so because of one of those three reasons. If they aren't one because of one of those EXACT reasons, it's damned close to it.

And what makes you say that my opinion is not well-informed? Do share.

Also, don't call yourself a fucking vegan unless you really mean it. No cheating. No Doritos or any other foods (almost everything packaged) that contain animal byproducts in their ingredients. Being truly vegan requires lots of effort and study, because many of those words on the food labels you don't understand are really fancy terms for things derived from animals. Most of the so-called vegans you meet are nothing but wannabe, ignorant trendies looking to raise an eyebrow. Also, make sure to check everything you wear, drive and use to make sure that they're completely animal-free.
Doing otherwise just makes you another vegetarian, not vegan. You wanna use the term, fuckin' earn it.

They shouldn't drive cars either, they run on petrol which comes from oil and oil is formed over millions of years from dead animals. Oh, and as oil is also a vital component of plastic and many modern medicines they can't use them either. Now, I wonder how many TRUE vegans there are on this thread.;)

they shouldn't eat grass or any other plants either cause in theory at one time that was an animal. (Soil comes from dead plants AND animals)

So yes eating meat is natural, no it doesn't matter how their killed because when a cat kills a mouse it plays with it first (which is basically torture) so however we kill animals now is just our naturally developed way of hunting/killing.

So putting animals into cages, feeding them shit(literally) as well as other ground up animals, never letting them see daylight until their crammed on the truck to go to slaughter is natural?? And who the fuck are you to say what is natural?? You main beef is that vegetarians/vegans say its not natural, and have no right to claim that, then why the fuck do you have the right to claim that factory farms are natural?? Also, many animals are fed chemicals that increase their growth rate dramatically, so their legs break and they can barely support their bodies, and if you eat meat its almost impossible to escape this due to the fact that most major meat indusrties do this.

Its natural because everything man does is natural, so much as whatever any (free) animal does is natural. OUr brains developed the concept for every workable machine on the planet. Our brains are natural, therefore all those you just mentioned are our naturally developed styles of hunting/killing for food and survival.Man is just as everybit natural as any other animal on the planet. Survival of the fittest, we just happen to be the most fit.

Really? I ate meat until I was 13, and I felt like crap while eating meat. Now i've been nearly animal product free for 8 years, and i feel so much healthier.
I also have to add that your assumption that meat was the culprit is suspect, considering that it seems more likely that your parents were average, ignorant Americans who raised you on crap. A meatless diet isn't more healthy (despite pro-vegetarian rhetoric), but a healthy, blanced diet is.
You can be awfully unhealthy eating a crappy vegetarian diet as well.
Most Americans don't eat very well, no matter what eating lifestyle they adhere to. If one eats well, adding meat in an appropriate way can be good for you.
Junking out on fast food and shitty packaged foods isn't.

vegetarian would eat animals i kill myself (humanly of course) but until all companies raise + kill animals humanly i'll remain a vege.

Calm down, who are you yelling at? I've done so much research, i've read books and i've done essays on it, I shop for shoes at a vegan store, I buy from vegan stores, I have not eaten a bag of doritos in years, I won't even go to a mcdonalds, I don't even go to major grocery stores.
Don't assume you're the target. Sounds like you're doing the hard work that most so-called vegans don't want to do.

Have you taken a good look at the supposed "vegan" diets of most of those wannabe's you might run into ("I'm a vegan, too! How cooool!")?
If you've been practicing for long, then you'll know exactly what I'm talking about. ;)

Also, many of the animals you eat, are smart, many more so then cats and dogs, so are you willing to eat cats and dogs?

But dogs were domesticated as companions and protectors. We evolved together in a mutual partnership, we fed them and they kept us safe. Dogs can be raised to be loyal to us in a way that few, if any, other animals can; to repay this loyalty with death would be a betrayal of trust. We domesticated sheep, cows, chickens etc. for meat, eggs, milk and other materials, they have never been more than sources of the afore mentioned materials so we feel no moral qualm about using them.

So putting animals into cages, feeding them shit(literally) as well as other ground up animals, never letting them see daylight until their crammed on the truck to go to slaughter is natural?? And who the fuck are you to say what is natural?? You main beef is that vegetarians/vegans say its not natural, and have no right to claim that, then why the fuck do you have the right to claim that factory farms are natural??
The animals are not fed shit. Not in any respectable farm, anyway. And they aren't fed bits of other animals, they're fed grass and hay and their natural diet. They see daylight, or you'd never see cows outside in the fields.

And the human body was designed to eat meat. Note that we have sharp front teeth, for tearing pieces of meat off in chunks, our bodies evolved to digest meat and protein, and we depend on meat for certain key amino acids that aren't very common in vegetable diets. We are omnivores, we are designed to eat meat and vegetables, not just one or the other.

Veggie here. No eggs but I drink milk as long as its organic. Used to eat anything that moves until 7 months ago...but I don't miss it. I am feeling healthier and with a cleaner conscience.

If asked, I would explain my position (a combination of spiritual and health factors) but I do not impose myself...since I found that sometimes it is counter-productive and pushes them to go far on the other side. Showing by example is a far more effective way that sermonizing.:)

Is anyone here vegatarian or vegan. I'm a border line vegan, I don't eat fish, eggs,milk, I barely consume anything from an animal, and I do not use any product with something from an animal,and I do not use any product tested on animals. Every once in awhile I might have some dairy but thats it. I'm also against using animals for entertainment. Anyways is anyone else here an animal rights advocate?

Hey there! I would like you to know that...


For every animal you don't eat, I'm going to eat three!!!

PETA - People for eating tasty animals.

I also have to add that your assumption that meat was the culprit is suspect, considering that it seems more likely that your parents were average, ignorant Americans who raised you on crap. A meatless diet isn't more healthy (despite pro-vegetarian rhetoric), but a healthy, blanced diet is.
You can be awfully unhealthy eating a crappy vegetarian diet as well.
Most Americans don't eat very well, no matter what eating lifestyle they adhere to. If one eats well, adding meat in an appropriate way can be good for you.
Junking out on fast food and shitty packaged foods isn't.


There are both unhealthy vegetarians, and meat eaters. But the average vegetarian is healthier then the average over weight fuck who eats at KFC. Also, its proven that vegatarians have reduced risks of many diseases. Also many vegetarians are not obeast. Again your right, their can be healthy meat eaters, but on average,vegetarians are healthier and in order to be a true vegetarian, you have to be concious of your health. Their are plenty of alternatives, and vitamins you can take.

I've never met a vegetarian that wasn't so because of one of those three reasons. If they aren't one because of one of those EXACT reasons, it's damned close to it.

And what makes you say that my opinion is not well-informed? Do share.Most of the vegetarians in the world are vegetarian by default, because they can't afford meat. Countless others are vegetarian for religious reasons, and many (like me) are vegetarians because meat production is an inefficient method of feeding people. There are people starving in this world, and we feed their share of the planet's food to cows (which will ultimatly yeild 1/8 the calories they were fed).
I too have met many, many annoying "save the fluffy bunnies" vegetarians who eat chicken when they feel like it. Most vegetarians are not like that. Most rich, white, western vegetarians who live in the suburbs are, unfortunatly.
You claim that there are no other reasons to be a vegetarian than those you listed, when in reality, there are hundreds. This leads me to believe that your opinion is not well-informed, and has been formed almost exclusively by your experiences.

Hey there! I would like you to know that...


For every animal you don't eat, I'm going to eat three!!!

PETA - People for eating tasty animals.
And I will eat there babies! :D

Hey there! I would like you to know that...


For every animal you don't eat, I'm going to eat three!!!

PETA - People for eating tasty animals.

You got that from Maddox, man! I agree with you!

they shouldn't eat grass or any other plants either cause in theory at one time that was an animal. (Soil comes from dead plants AND animals)

You know, before today I never really thought about where soil came from. Thank you for enlightening me.:)

There are people starving in this world, and we feed their share of the planet's food to cows (which will ultimatly yeild 1/8 the calories they were fed)..
How do you figure it's their share? Did they freakin grow it?

I was a lacto-ovo vegetarian for almost a decade. I tried hard to balance my nutritional demands, but had a lot of trouble gaining weight. I've been eating meat for almost 4 years now, and feel (and look) better.
I gained 25 lbs within the first 6 months I started eating meat again, and have no plans on returning to that diet.Then you were doing it wrong.

My Girlfriend is vegetarian, her father is an emmigrated Algerian to the UK.

On one of her vists back to her dad's country she saw a severed bulls head that'd been skinned and had flies swarming all over it. Since then she's not eaten meat and is pretty good with it. She won't eat gelatin products although she will drink milk, eat eggs, cheese etc.

Personally I tend to think it stems from squeemishness but I don't have a problem with it.

I have to go with Ivia on the "reasons for vegetarianism". Only very rarely have I ever met people who are vegetarians for non-cruelty reasons, and that was because they just didn't like the taste of meat.

On the cruelty note though I think it is a bit of an over-reaction to stop eating meat altogether. Why not just make sure to only buy quality meat from companies that have a good record of treating animals well? Punish the companies that mistreat animals by making them lose money for doing so. By showing that it PAYS to treat animals well before slaughter.

I personally couldn't live without meat in my diet and I tend to think that it is healthy, we're omnivores and our bodies are designed to eat meat AND vegetables. It gives variety to ones diet and tends to make me happier in general.

yea that comment kinda just came out of the mouth I was goin somewhere with it but I forgot. Two or three forums keep me busy. :p

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=grill

There are both unhealthy vegetarians, and meat eaters. But the average vegetarian is healthier then the average over weight fuck who eats at KFC.

True, but then again the average meat-eater (although I prefer the term omnivore) is healthier that 'the average over weight fuck who eats at KFC'. Infact, the average person who eats at KFC is healthier than the 'the average over weight fucks who eat at KFC'.

If you used less profanity and more clarity you might make more of an impact.

How do you figure it's their share? Did they freakin grow it?If i steal somthing from you and turn it into something else, is the product not yours? We are all entitled to an equal share of the planet. Look up your ecological footprint. If you're from North America or Europe, chances are it's 3 or 4 people's worth. Which is why some people are literally starving to death on their feet.
In Ethiopia, in 1992, during the worst famine in recorded history, that country was shipping grain to the UK to be fed to cows. When you eat meat, you're not just killing animals, you're killing people.

If i steal somthing from you and turn it into something else, is the product not yours? We are all entitled to an equal share of the planet. Look up your ecological footprint. If you're from North America or Europe, chances are it's 3 or 4 people's worth. Which is why some people are literally starving to death on their feet.
In Ethiopia, in 1992, during the worst famine in recorded history, that country was shipping grain to the UK to be fed to cows. When you eat meat, you're not just killing animals, you're killing people.

I agree with you almost entirely on this point. However, the problem isn't with meat eating, it's with Capitalism.

First, allow me to preface the following: I am not a vegan. I am not a vegetarian. I love chicken. I would last about a week as a vegetarian, if only for simplicity reasons. I am not a picky eater. I can't imagine becoming one. It also seems as thoughbeing a vegetarian requires a penchant for mushrooms, and I never liked mushrooms. I am 23 years old and I am not going to eat mushrooms.

My dad was in a relationship for a while with a woman who was a vegetarian. She never ate the same stuff as the rest of us, for the most part. However, her diet was a lot stricter than that...no white flour, no excessive carbs, no added sugar, no alcohol, and no soda, not even diet. She doesn't eat dessert, though she does eat eggs and dairy. How anyone manages not to go insane on a diet like that is beyond me, though I am speaking as someone who enjoys buffalo wings, Fritos scoops with chili to dip them in, baked potatoes, and a cold Pepsi to wash it all down.

I don't care if someone doesn't want to eat meat. Most people I talk to who don't eat meat don't bother me because I do. If they want to call me a murderer, then they can go waste their breath yelling at someone else because I don't want to hear it. I don't kill the animals, and if I did, I would use every part of the animal that I could. No point in letting it go to waste. I don't approve of killing strictly for sport, however...just taking the animal's head and not using any of the body for anything we can actually USE. (So if you kill a deer, I hope you like venison...which I do, so if I killed deer, I would be OK.)

Most of the vegetarians in the world are vegetarian by default, because they can't afford meat. Countless others are vegetarian for religious reasons, and many (like me) are vegetarians because meat production is an inefficient method of feeding people. There are people starving in this world, and we feed their share of the planet's food to cows (which will ultimatly yeild 1/8 the calories they were fed).
I too have met many, many annoying "save the fluffy bunnies" vegetarians who eat chicken when they feel like it. Most vegetarians are not like that. Most rich, white, western vegetarians who live in the suburbs are, unfortunatly.
You claim that there are no other reasons to be a vegetarian than those you listed, when in reality, there are hundreds. This leads me to believe that your opinion is not well-informed, and has been formed almost exclusively by your experiences.
I never said, or even implied, that those three reasons were the only reasons to be. I said the most common reasons for people to become vegetarians are those three reasons. (Yes, I used "be" not "become", but I was typing it up fairly quickly, my apologies for it coming across otherwise, I only caught it because I had to go back and see if I did imply anywhere that my three reasons were the only, which I still don't see that I did.)

Then you were doing it wrong.
Don't tell me how I was doing anything. Unless you're being an arrogant bitch, I'm assuming you're a licensed dietician with my complete medical history and dietary schedule infront of you?
If not, tell me what you're doing right, but don't assume you know what I was doing wrong ten years ago.

hahahaha its not their share. That is a good one, hahahaha. WE're not looking at countries here or ecological regions(which is one of the UN's plans for global dominance and they say its generally for this very reason, as well as other "enviromental reasons" which they couldn't give a shit about). We're looking at humans are they meant to eat meat? Where we get it from is of little concern. Survival of the fittest. The people in western cultures are just more fit (not necessarily bodily or even of mind we just have the technology and the means). And if you wanted to get really deep into it western culture is dying out because of our "civilized" ways we're dying out and then the eastern cultures will rule the world.

And if these people in third world countries were the ones that WERE BEING ECOLOGICALLY IGNORANT, they may have more food. The problem is not the land and it is not the west or people that eat meat or don't eat meat. The problem is with third world leadership, and their ignorance in correct farming methods. (They use slash and burn and other ecologically harmful methods)

If i steal somthing from you and turn it into something else, is the product not yours? We are all entitled to an equal share of the planet. Look up your ecological footprint. If you're from North America or Europe, chances are it's 3 or 4 people's worth. Which is why some people are literally starving to death on their feet.
In Ethiopia, in 1992, during the worst famine in recorded history, that country was shipping grain to the UK to be fed to cows. When you eat meat, you're not just killing animals, you're killing people.
Oh dear god, are you serious? An equal share of the planet? Look here, a farmer owns land, he grows grain, and sells it where he wants to to make money. It's HIS land, HIS grain, HIS money.

Just who stole what from who? Enlighten me, if you would.

I agree with you almost entirely on this point. However, the problem isn't with meat eating, it's with Capitalism.
Well, it's with the distribution. If it was split up equally, each person would get 4 pounds of food per day, far more than what is needed.

Besides, the feed given to cows is unfit for human consumption. That's why cows get it.

If i steal somthing from you and turn it into something else, is the product not yours? We are all entitled to an equal share of the planet. Look up your ecological footprint. If you're from North America or Europe, chances are it's 3 or 4 people's worth. Which is why some people are literally starving to death on their feet.
In Ethiopia, in 1992, during the worst famine in recorded history, that country was shipping grain to the UK to be fed to cows. When you eat meat, you're not just killing animals, you're killing people.

Ya know if I lived anywhere in Africa, I would prefer death.

I forgot this nice little fact to, the famine in Ethopia in 1992 was man-created. It was created because the dictator of ethopia didn't have enough power because of tribalism to build proper irrigation systems for his people. Africa (as a whole) used to grow enough food for itself and for much the rest of the world, but since de-colonization they have had horrible communist and socialist dictators which become independently rich but don't use any money to help build their nations, so you may want to get another example.

Well, it's with the distribution. If it was split up equally, each person would get 4 pounds of food per day, far more than what is needed.

Besides, the feed given to cows is unfit for human consumption. That's why cows get it.

Yes, and the reason for the schewed distribution is capitalism, in Europe some farmers are paid by the EU not to grow crops on all of their land to cut down on the ammount of food grown and thereby keep the prices high. The fact that this happens while people starve everyday makes me furious.

That randomlittleisland is not capitalism, that is a byproduct of socialism. We have a program much like that in America started by FDR the greatest salesperson of socialism in america. IN capitalism the government is laissez-fair hands off they wouldn't be destroying crops.(Also the EU is one of the least Capitalist organizations in the "free world")

Yes, and the reason for the schewed distribution is capitalism, in Europe some farmers are paid by the EU not to grow crops on all of their land to cut down on the ammount of food grown and thereby keep the prices high. The fact that this happens while people starve everyday makes me furious.
The same thing goes on here in America, and it's called farm cubisidation. Subsidation is considered more of a socialist (controlling the market) tactic, not exactly llaissez faire by any definition.

I agree with you almost entirely on this point. However, the problem isn't with meat eating, it's with Capitalism.Meat-eating is not a problem. The over-consumption of meat is. I'm not the only vegan who thinks this way.
"Live simply so that others may simply live." - Ghandi

Just what I said brother or sister :)

Let's put it this way: one of my favorite shirts says "Save a cow - eat a vegetarian". The way I see it, if it moves slower than I do, then I can eat it.

Besides, I would think eating plants is much more cruel since they don't die all at once. Can you imagine what the screams would sound like from chopping up a head of lettuce?

That randomlittleisland is not capitalism, that is a byproduct of socialism. We have a program much like that in America started by FDR the greatest salesperson of socialism in america. IN capitalism the government is laissez-fair hands off they wouldn't be destroying crops.(Also the EU is one of the least Capitalist organizations in the "free world")

Please explain to me how reducing production to raise prices is a Socialist idea.

Don't tell me how I was doing anything. Unless you're being an arrogant bitch, I'm assuming you're a licensed dietician with my complete medical history and dietary schedule infront of you?
If not, tell me what you're doing right, but don't assume you know what I was doing wrong ten years ago.If what you eat is making you unhealthy, then you're not eating properly.
Since when do I need a degree to tell you that? Being vegan does not make you unhealthy, or even necessarily skinny. Perhaps you weren't consuming enough calories or the proper nutrients, but there are no nutrients essential to human life that come exclusively from animals, so veganism was not the source of your problems.
I never told you what you were doing wrong. But you were doing something wrong.

Well, I'm off to watch 'Scanners' on TV, 'night all.

Let's put it this way: one of my favorite shirts says "Save a cow - eat a vegetarian". The way I see it, if it moves slower than I do, then I can eat it.That's a really scary way to determine what you can eat. Do you think it is morally correct to eat disabled people?

Meat-eating is not a problem. The over-consumption of meat is. I'm not the only vegan who thinks this way.
"Live simply so that others may simply live." - Ghandi
You might wanna watch who you're quoting. Ghandi was a racist asshole. Ever hear some of the things he said about Africans?

Please explain to me how reducing production to raise prices is a Socialist idea.

When it's the government mandating to businesses how much production they should produce, it's socialism. When it's a business deciding to produce less so that prices go up, it's capitalism.

That's a really scary way to determine what you can eat. Do you think it is morally correct to eat disabled people?
You know, you don't have to take everything you see with a barrel of salt. A pinch is fine. Maybe you should go read and refrain from posting until you learn what sarcasm is.

you do realize that plants are living organisms too.....and things like the Venus Fly trap aren't nice little plants taking in sunlight and water, using nutrients in the soil...they eat more meat than you do......so by eating a living organism....plants....i can just as easily accuse you of being a murderer as well! :)

Please explain to me how reducing production to raise prices is a Socialist idea.
Corporatism, implemented by the state — whether through direct handouts, corporate bailouts, eminent domain, licensing laws, antitrust regulations, or environmental edicts — is still interference in the market by the government.
It is not "real" capitalism (in the same way that China and the USSR weren't really communist.)
Although leftists often misunderstand the fundamental problem plaguing the economy, they at least recognize its symptoms.

That's a really scary way to determine what you can eat. Do you think it is morally correct to eat disabled people?
Depends on how much fat content they have. I like my meat nicely marbled. :D

Homo Sapiens is an omnivorous species. It eats meat, that is what the human species does, it is what is natural for humans to do, there are some things humans need that they cannot get from any plant, only from animals (just to quote one so you don't end up demanding an example, the vitamin B12). Therefore vegetarians and vegans are being unnatural. That is the scientific fact. Morally it can be different...

If what you eat is making you unhealthy, then you're not eating properly.
Since when do I need a degree to tell you that? Being vegan does not make you unhealthy, or even necessarily skinny. Perhaps you weren't consuming enough calories or the proper nutrients, but there are no nutrients essential to human life that come exclusively from animals, so veganism was not the source of your problems.
I never told you what you were doing wrong. But you were doing something wrong.
C'mon. You don't know how difficult it is for me to gain weight. I couldn't have afforded enough legumes and tofu to shovel by truckloads into my mouth necessary to gain the 25 lbs I wanted, let alone would have wanted to.
Vegetarianism is a great way for most people to take off the weight, but it isn't exactly an easy thing to put it on with vegetables and the like. That's common sense.
Regardless, enjoy your diet. Really, I think it's nice.
It's just not right for me.

You might wanna watch who you're quoting. Ghandi was a racist asshole. Ever hear some of the things he said about Africans?

OK, I'll bite. What did Gandhi say about Africans?

OK, I'll bite. What did Gandhi say about Africans?

Those comments he made were when he was young and living as a "brown sahib" (a non-white elite acting as white) in South Africa.

People change. He changed and he fought for the rights of those very same black people.

Mandela and MLK (both black leaders) did not get inspired by Gandhi for nothing.

Is anyone here vegatarian or vegan. I'm a border line vegan, I don't eat fish, eggs,milk, I barely consume anything from an animal, and I do not use any product with something from an animal,and I do not use any product tested on animals. Every once in awhile I might have some dairy but thats it. I'm also against using animals for entertainment. Anyways is anyone else here an animal rights advocate?Yups. Animal rights advocate, in the sense that currently acceptable treatment of animals isn't acceptable to me. We're fully capable of treating livestock etc. humanely, we just chose not to do so. And that, IMO, is not acceptable.

I'm vegan, with a few excpetions. I use gelatine in my hair & I love my leather jacket & my Doc's. Other than that, I don't consume any aminal products. Not clothing, furniture, foodstuffs or anything else. And I don't use any products tested on animals.

Well, it's with the distribution. If it was split up equally, each person would get 4 pounds of food per day, far more than what is needed.

Besides, the feed given to cows is unfit for human consumption. That's why cows get it.It's grown on land that can grow human food.

It's grown on land that can grow human food.
No, it's not. It's grown, by and large, on poor soil that cannot support the type of food we eat.

C'mon. You don't know how difficult it is for me to gain weight. I couldn't have afforded enough legumes and tofu to shovel by truckloads into my mouth necessary to gain the 25 lbs I wanted, let alone would have wanted to.
Vegetarianism is a great way for most people to take off the weight, but it isn't exactly an easy thing to put it on with vegetables and the like. That's common sense.
Regardless, enjoy your diet. Really, I think it's nice.
It's just not right for me.Start eating babanas & nuts. That's what I do when I need to buff up. Trust me, it's every bit as effective as eating a bucket of lard.

I forgot this nice little fact to, the famine in Ethopia in 1992 was man-created. It was created because the dictator of ethopia didn't have enough power because of tribalism to build proper irrigation systems for his people. Africa (as a whole) used to grow enough food for itself and for much the rest of the world, but since de-colonization they have had horrible communist and socialist dictators which become independently rich but don't use any money to help build their nations, so you may want to get another example.Then they are not communist. If they have more than their people, they are not communist.
Africa's ecosystems were ruined in many places by the colonists, part of the reason why Europeans were suddenly willing to pull out.
Please learn how to spell "too" before you post again. I hate myself for picking on your spelling like this, but seriously...

You might wanna watch who you're quoting. Ghandi was a racist asshole. Ever hear some of the things he said about Africans?He still said wise things. I sing Sinatra, and he was a wife beater. His songs are still great.

Homo Sapiens is an omnivorous species. It eats meat, that is what the human species does, it is what is natural for humans to do, there are some things humans need that they cannot get from any plant, only from animals (just to quote one so you don't end up demanding an example, the vitamin B12). Therefore vegetarians and vegans are being unnatural. That is the scientific fact. Morally it can be different...Not true. Vitamin B12 is produced by bacteria. These bacteria are most often found on beef (which has to partially decompose to be edible), but fermented soy products also contain it.

There is no nutrient essential to human life that can only be derived from animal products.

Not true. Vitamin B12 is produced by bacteria. These bacteria are most often found on beef (which has to partially decompose to be edible), but fermented soy products also contain it.

There is no nutrient essential to human life that can only be derived from animal products.
Was it fermented or nonfermented soy products that were determined to be carcinogenic?

Not true. Vitamin B12 is produced by bacteria. These bacteria are most often found on beef (which has to partially decompose to be edible), but fermented soy products also contain it.

There is no nutrient essential to human life that can only be derived from animal products.

And thats great and all but I like my steaks. So as much as you can choose to eat vegitables for whatever reasons you may feel make it right I can still choose to eat meat. And as long as there is a market for it there will be cows getting grain(which is much too poor for human consumption).

I eat meat mainly on this basis: my cousin recently got into a car accident (she was, at the time, a vegetarian) and, after being taken to the doctor, the doctor informed her that without meat, she would heal about three-to-four times as long as she would with it. Therefore, because meat helps keep the immune system active, I try to eat it when I'm able.

I am an eater of meat. I have disdain for moral vegetarians since for the most part, they advocate positions of hypocrisy and tend to accuse me of being a murderer.

Fully agree. It is a personal choice and I do not care until someone pushes it as a moral high ground.

There is no nutrient essential to human life that can only be derived from animal products.
Yes, but the thing is that the quantity of plant products needed to supply enough of the essential nutrients to support human life is very high, more so the more strict a vegetarian/vegan you are.

C'mon. You don't know how difficult it is for me to gain weight. I couldn't have afforded enough legumes and tofu to shovel by truckloads into my mouth necessary to gain the 25 lbs I wanted, let alone would have wanted to.
Vegetarianism is a great way for most people to take off the weight, but it isn't exactly an easy thing to put it on with vegetables and the like. That's common sense.
Regardless, enjoy your diet. Really, I think it's nice.
It's just not right for me.Like I said, you just weren't doing it right. My vegan brownies are loved by all; people beg me to make them. And they are, by far, the best I have ever tasted. I'm not bragging, because it has nothing to do with my skill in the kitchen, they're just full of sugar, and fat, and chopped up dark chocolate.
The highest calorie foods are vegan - sugar and fat. You're better off gaining weight by melting better on your vegetables than by eating fatty meat. The vegetarian option at least has good nutrition in addition to the fat.

I really don't mean to be offensive, but yeah, if you were trying to bulk up on tofu and legumes, then you were doing it wrong.

giving up meat is a small sacrafice that helps tha animals being abused and tortured.it wouldnt help those animals, because they only exist, because we eat them. all those animals would be headed for extinction if we gave up meat.

ever thougt about it this way, that we humans are actually the victims? we provide the animals with shelter and protection from their natural predators and we feed them, we treat their illnesses, we cater to their every need, we change the landscape, clear forrests and dam rivers to create optimal environments for them to breed. we help them to spread to new places, continents, islands and eventually we will take them with us into space. all that would have been unattainable for "normal" animals. and we do this only because they "bribe" us with their tasty meat. it is their greatest evolutionary advantage, that secures their survival on our cost.The most common reasons for people being vegans/vegetarians are "Omg teh pore lil aminal! I cn'at hurt u!"true, i think that started with movies like "Bambi" and disney &co having antropomorphized animals in their media ever since aggravated the problem.Animals fed well and lack stress/anxiety tend to taste a fair bit better...
A happy pig is a tasty pig.that is a legend, there is no evidence for that and taste is on the tongue of the eater anyway.
just as well i could claim, that the stress hormones make the meat more tender if the animal is treated particulary cruel.There are both unhealthy vegetarians, and meat eaters. But the average vegetarian is healthier then the average over weight fuck who eats at KFC. Also, its proven that vegatarians have reduced risks of many diseases. Also many vegetarians are not obeast. Again your right, their can be healthy meat eaters, but on average,vegetarians are healthier and in order to be a true vegetarian, you have to be concious of your health.there is hardly anyone to sample, who has been vegetarian for all his life, usually they will have lived omnivorous for decades and then switch for a few years. if you sample them then, the deficiencies may not yet have impacted their health.

the big problem with animal rights cooks is, that they want to force everybody to agree with them, they want to outlaw any animaluse and then put meateaters into reeducation camps.

Was it fermented or nonfermented soy products that were determined to be carcinogenic?All fermented and pickled foods have been shown to increase incidence of stomach cancer. Pickles, vinegar, kimchi, miso...
A lot of things increase incidence of cancer. Like, say, red meat.
So... Our two main sources of B12 may cause cancer. But not eating B12 kills you.
I'll take my chances with the soy.

Well, I only eat chicken, I don't eat cows, it makes me sick, and I don't eat fish because I'm allergic to them.
I really think that some animals were created to be eaten, like cows, chicken, fish, lamb, rabbits, etc. But is respectable vegetarian people, each one must have their own thoughts.
Do you know that there are people who eat dogs,rats and those kind of animal? I was dissapointed with this :S , I think those kind of animals are almost people. Well, it's my thougth, you can think what you want =)

SEE YA

All fermented and pickled foods have been shown to increase incidence of stomach cancer. Pickles, vinegar, kimchi, miso...
A lot of things increase incidence of cancer. Like, say, red meat.
So... Our two main sources of B12 may cause cancer. But not eating B12 kills you.
I'll take my chances with the soy.
I checked it. Only nonfermented soy products are carcinogenic. Far more so than the other food we eat.

I checked it. Only nonfermented soy products are carcinogenic. Far more so than the other food we eat.Source?

Source?
Give me a minute. My usual method of checking is to go through my memory, so I have to do an Internet search. The link was on this forum awhile back.

Edit: Wikipedia on the health effects of soy. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soy#Nutrition_and_health_effects)

giving up meat is a small sacrafice that helps tha animals being abused and tortured.
it wouldnt help those animals, because they only exist, because we eat them. all those animals would be headed for extinction if we gave up meat.ever thougt about it this way, that we humans are actually the victims? we provide the animals with shelter and protection from their natural predators and we feed them, we treat their illnesses, we cater to their every need, we change the landscape, clear forrests and dam rivers to create optimal environments for them to breed. we help them to spread to new places, continents, islands and eventually we will take them with us into space. all that would have been unattainable for "normal" animals. and we do this only because they "bribe" us with their tasty meat. it is their greatest evolutionary advantage, that secures their survival on our cost.It's their greatest evolutionary disadvantage. Livestock were once critters capable of surviving on their own. In most cases, they no longer can. We've bred them into something entirely different now. Regardless, abandoning livestock altogether isn't the question. How we treat the critters, and to what extent we rely on them, is.

If we cut back 30% on animal products (the lot), humanity will overall be healthier, because current western meat-consumption isn't good for us at all. We're not designed to eat the amount of meat we currently do. And it will go a hell of a long way towards freeing up farmland to essential supplies of grain & other foodstuffs that we need, if ourt goal is to provide everyone with enough to eat.The most common reasons for people being vegans/vegetarians are "Omg teh pore lil aminal! I cn'at hurt u!"true, i think that started with movies like "Bambi" and disney &co having antropomorphized animals in their media ever since aggravated the problem.What a load of shite. There were virtually no vegetarians & vegans in the 50s & early 60s when Disney's cartoons too the world with a storm. Likewise, people ate a hell of a lot less meat 80 years ago than they do today. Meat consumption has never been higher than it is in the western world today.Animals fed well and lack stress/anxiety tend to taste a fair bit better...
A happy pig is a tasty pig.that is a legend, there is no evidence for that and taste is on the tongue of the eater anyway.
just as well i could claim, that the stress hormones make the meat more tender if the animal is treated particulary cruel.Poor meat-eaters with all your petty problems.There are both unhealthy vegetarians, and meat eaters. But the average vegetarian is healthier then the average over weight fuck who eats at KFC. Also, its proven that vegatarians have reduced risks of many diseases. Also many vegetarians are not obeast. Again your right, their can be healthy meat eaters, but on average,vegetarians are healthier and in order to be a true vegetarian, you have to be concious of your health.
there is hardly anyone to sample, who has been vegetarian for all his life, usually they will have lived omnivorous for decades and then switch for a few years. if you sample them then, the deficiencies may not yet have impacted their health.the big problem with animal rights cooks is, that they want to force everybody to agree with them, they want to outlaw any animaluse and then put meateaters into reeducation camps.Yea right. Actually, we just want you to shoot yourselves & get it over with. Now get off your lazy arse & get a job, so you can afford a gun & bullet. And execute yourself in the graveyard. You can't seriously mean you want us to waste precious fossilized fuels to haul your fat stinking carcass off to the graveyard.

I don't give a damn what people eat. I do give a damn when they deliberately put their food through living hell, when they can easily threat it humanely. And I do give a damn when people's eating habits adversely affect the global population.

I don't give a damn whether you own a battletank either, but I start giving a damn when you put the pedal to the metal & go on a killing spree.

Is it really too much to ask that people act in a responsible, conscious manner?

- And in response to the bit you were quoting; most the overweight people I know are vegans. Vegans usually eat a lot of fatty foods & almost all the ones I know have a nut-adiction. And weight has nothing to do with being a real anything - other than possibly a real fat fuck.

this is the orthodox, and i think good argument for vegetarianism.

Basically, it proceeds from the idea that it is unacceptable to eat human beings regardless of their culinary value. From here it then questions how we can differentiate the consumption of animal flesh from human flesh. It is here that people generally raise some characteristic that enables them to (temporarily) distinguish the consumption of human flesh from animal flesh. Charcteristics raised normally include those such as rationality, agency, self-reflection and the like. However the relevant point that this argument makes is that while the paradagmatic human shares these charcteristics not all humans do whether they are incapable of having it, or have only teporarily lost it (take for example the mentally deformed, comotose, feral children, infants and even those asleep). Thus, it seems, that those who happily consume animal flesh have no reason not to also consume human flesh (at least that that does not share the charcteristic). Or put another way if you believe the consumption of human flesh is morally impermissable you have no reason to contemplate consuming animal flesh.

Please note that this is a very shetchy overview that looses all the subtly, but if you want to see a more developed version there is sure to be one on the internet

Give me a minute. My usual method of checking is to go through my memory, so I have to do an Internet search. The link was on this forum awhile back.

Edit: Wikipedia on the health effects of soy. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soy#Nutrition_and_health_effects)Was this
Conversely, a 1985 animal study showed that young rats fed large amounts of soy products as their primary food source showed an increased risk of pancreatic cancer. This is probably because rats are extremely sensitive to dietary protease inhibitors like those found in soybeans, which can disrupt the action of digestive enzymes needed to break down protein. This condition has not been found in many other animals, and is not known to occur in humans.What you were referring to?
Just because something is carcinogenic to one type of animal doesn't mean we all have to avoid it.
Oh, btw, my sister is really allergic to strawberries. So watch out, guys, strawberries will KILL YOU!

That's a really scary way to determine what you can eat. Do you think it is morally correct to eat disabled people?
Well, I wouldn't go out of my way to eat disabled people, but if it came down to one of those crashed plane in the middle of a icy wasteland scenarios, determining who gets to be food through triage seems like a sensible way to go about it.

Most Commonly Reported Problems and Symptoms
What are the most commonly reported symptoms from long-term vegans and raw foodists who have been forced to add some animal fat and protein back into their diets to regain or maintain superior health, energy, and well-being?

Below are the symptoms and problems I hear about in mail from long-term vegans and raw foodists on an all-too-regular basis:

inadequate milk production for nursing mothers, as well as retarded physical and mental development in some children who are strictly on a vegan or raw food diet;


slow metabolism leading to a much less robust lifestyle;


a general lack of vitality;


low body temperature (always cold);


a weak, touchy digestive system with a loss of digestive strength (unable to metabolize food quickly, have to be careful what you eat, how much, must practice food combining to be able to digest food, etc.);


food cravings (especially among women);


stalled weight loss because metabolism is too low (predominately in women);


inability to gain weight, resulting in shrunken, cadaverous-looking bodies (predominately in men);


weight gains from overeating on carbohydrates;


amenorrhea (menstrual cycles cease), even in young women;


loss of libido;


hair loss and nail problems;


dental cavities, tooth loss, and gum problems;


joint pain;


inability to conceive

You know, one of the things that disturbs and puzzles me the most about long-term veganism and raw foodism is that so many of the above problems disappear when a person initially goes on a strict vegan or raw food diet and begins the detox process. I know this was true in my case, and I know it's also been true in thousands of other instances.

But… and this is a very large and loud but… unfortunately these health gains don't last for most people who stick with a strict vegan or raw food diet, especially when we're talking about adhering to such a program for periods of years. Indeed, all too often the old symptoms and diseases return or, just as worrisome, new health problems begin to manifest as a result of what appear to me to be inherent deficiencies brought about from the lack of various nutritional factors (both known and unknown by science) that are only present in foods from the animal kingdom.

Health & Beyond (http://chetday.com/vegandietdangers.htm)

Seriously people, we need to eat both plant and animal to be healthy. People should eat mostly plant and some animal.

Is anyone here vegatarian or vegan. I'm a border line vegan, I don't eat fish, eggs,milk, I barely consume anything from an animal, and I do not use any product with something from an animal,and I do not use any product tested on animals. Every once in awhile I might have some dairy but thats it. I'm also against using animals for entertainment. Anyways is anyone else here an animal rights advocate?

AHAHAH dude... i was like wow, some one in here is vegan/vegetarian, like, i was totally suprised... then i saw 7 generations.. i'm like oh. makes sense now. ahahaha... it's crazy. it was like then when i was like, is anyone straight edge? like everyone was suprised i guess. ahaha. anyway, no, i'm not vegan or vegetarian. idk. i could possibilty go vegetarian if i tried, but i don't really see the need to, at least right now.

I didn't have time to review the whole thread but I wanted to add that I am a healthy omnivore that grows and/or kills just about everything I eat. I believe in eating a balanced diet as shown in the food pyramid you learned about in elementary school (which contains meat but in small amounts). I have my own garden in which I grow vegetables without using pesticides and I use manure from the animals I raise to fertilize (though I make sure fertilizer runoff is not an issue). I am growing fruit trees (although there are still too young to harvest much off them), and I hunt deer, rabbits, squirrells, doves, etc...and incorporate them into my diet since they are a healthy addition..(lean meats that are VERY good for you and don't contain growth hormones or have been fed antibiotics that can cause very dangerous mutated diseases). I raise pigs and chickens and treat them as they were family but that doesn't stop me from eating them or their eggs...cuz that's life kids. I believe that we should do something to decrease cruelty in animals but I think it can be done in positive ways instead..say handing out comics to kids entitled "your daddy is a murderer" (thanks PETA you really give "honest" vegetarians and the like a good name). I don't blame people that are unable to grow their own food for becoming vegetarian (though veganism is just rediculous..why don't you just go all the way and don't eat those poor vegetables and grains that deserve the same happiness and right to life). But..it is your choice and that is what it all comes down to and what this country is and should be all about. If you wanna make a difference then I suggest making yourself into a good example by doing all the right things and just maybe someone else will notice and do the same..and so on and so forth (being a d**k on some stupid blog isn't going to do much or make you seem intelligent). Why don't you guys put some of this energy into helping other people first. Don't rely so much on the government and the system to do things for you when you are perfectly capable of helping yourselfs and your less fortunate peers. Well that is all...agree with me or not I could care less either way, i am open minded to your thoughts and suggestions though. Later

I didn't have time to review the whole thread but I wanted to add that I am a healthy omnivore that grows and/or kills just about everything I eat. I believe in eating a balanced diet as shown in the food pyramid you learned about in elementary school (which contains meat but in small amounts). I have my own garden in which I grow vegetables without using pesticides and I use manure from the animals I raise to fertilize (though I make sure fertilizer runoff is not an issue). I am growing fruit trees (although there are still too young to harvest much off them), and I hunt deer, rabbits, squirrells, doves, etc...and incorporate them into my diet since they are a healthy addition..(lean meats that are VERY good for you and don't contain growth hormones or have been fed antibiotics that can cause very dangerous mutated diseases). I raise pigs and chickens and treat them as they were family but that doesn't stop me from eating them or their eggs...cuz that's life kids. I believe that we should do something to decrease cruelty in animals but I think it can be done in positive ways instead..say handing out comics to kids entitled "your daddy is a murderer" (thanks PETA you really give "honest" vegetarians and the like a good name). I don't blame people that are unable to grow their own food for becoming vegetarian (though veganism is just rediculous..why don't you just go all the way and don't eat those poor vegetables and grains that deserve the same happiness and right to life). But..it is your choice and that is what it all comes down to and what this country is and should be all about. If you wanna make a difference then I suggest making yourself into a good example by doing all the right things and just maybe someone else will notice and do the same..and so on and so forth (being a d**k on some stupid blog isn't going to do much or make you seem intelligent). Why don't you guys put some of this energy into helping other people first. Don't rely so much on the government and the system to do things for you when you are perfectly capable of helping yourselfs and your less fortunate peers. Well that is all...agree with me or not I could care less either way, i am open minded to your thoughts and suggestions though. LaterI can prove that benevolent gods don't exist. They did, PETA wouldn't.

I hate reading something perfectly sensible like the above, yet having to put up with inane, baseless & utterly silly accusations of vegans & to some extent vegetarians. And it seems PETA is to blame for it. Thank you very much PETA. Great way to promote ethical behaviour...

But I'll say it again: being a nut isn't a prerequisite for being a vegan. Any demographic has it's number of arsehats. Vegans as well. But making us all out to be a bunch of whiney Jihadists is no more correct than accusing every liberal on the planet of eating babies, or accusing all conservatives of being xenophobic homophobes.

I am, for all intents & purposes, a vegan. That does not mean I go around trying to 'convert' anyone. It doesn't even mean I want you to give up utilising animal products. The truth is I don't want that, because most of you would not only be miserable, but probably suffer malnutrition & possibly slow & painful deaths.
And sure, I feel sorry for a lot of animals - to an extent. I think it's pathetic that we can't be arsed to treat animals properly. Because that's it. We can't be arsed. It's not because it's insanely difficult, we just don't give a toss. That I object to. If you could treat your burger meat or the leather on your couch with just a shred of decency, then I wouldn't be objecting to anything. And I would utilise animal products. I just wouldn't be eating any.
Because at this point in time, I find the thought of eating animal products somewhat revolting. That shouldn't stop you though. Eat whatever the hell you want. But stop consuming products that are the result of industrialised mistreatment of animals. If not, then I almost hope you get BSE.

Basically, it proceeds from the idea that it is unacceptable to eat human beings regardless of their culinary value.

Yeah, because generally you eat members of OTHER species. They're less likely to give you communicable diseases, and why bother cutting down your reproductive or survival chances?

Thus, it seems, that those who happily consume animal flesh have no reason not to also consume human flesh (at least that that does not share the charcteristic). Or put another way if you believe the consumption of human flesh is morally impermissable you have no reason to contemplate consuming animal flesh.

Nonsense. You're arguing a slippery slope, that if I eat X, and X is meat, and Y is also meat, I should eat Y too. I happen to enjoy pork and beef and chicken, that doesn't mean I'm gonna munch on some giant squid anytime soon.

Of course, I HAVE contemplating eating humans. But I decided against it, since most people have no taste.

Fire. Meat. Good.


Though when I'm away at college, I tend to become Pastafarian for financial reasons.

Yeah, I am a strict vegetarian. I agree with supporting animal rights.

I'll take my chances with the soy.

I think you might want to take a look at these:
http://www.mercola.com/2002/jan/26/vegetarianism_myths_02.htm
http://www.rheumatic.org/soy.htm
http://www.vegetarian-nutrition.info/positions/english/b-12.htm
http://www.soyonlineservice.co.nz/03soymyths.htm

The first one cites many different sources of information within the article. I'm not too sure how reliable the other three are but they all seem to say that the B12 found in fermented soy is not the same as 'regular' B12. The first article I think is the most useful.

Fire. Meat. Good.


Though when I'm away at college, I tend to become Pastafarian for financial reasons.

I hear you. I'd kill for a decent steak dinner but I'd rather not shell ou tthe cash needed.

I too have met many, many annoying "save the fluffy bunnies" vegetarians who eat chicken when they feel like it. Most vegetarians are not like that. Most rich, white, western vegetarians who live in the suburbs are, unfortunatly.
I've met barely any of them, and I know plenty of vegetarians, besides myself. I'm vegetarian through personal choice, and I'm perfectly healthy with this diet. I was perfectly healthy eating meat as well. Thinking about it, I decided to go veggie. No one persuaded me to, no one asked me to, yet all I seem to get (apart from other vegetarians (who seem to be the only sensible people)) is crap about how I should eat meat 'because it tastes good'. Paper tastes good, for fuck's sake, but whenever I tell people to eat that, they look at me like I'm crazy.
By the way, to people arguing for/against, you do realise that no one, however persuasive you think your argument is, no one will have that 'road to Damascus' moment, and convert their eating habits just because of this thread?
I've read the first 40 posts of this thread, and I've already seen all the arguments, so I don't know what the other 70-odd is about.

I'm also against using animals for entertainment. Anyways is anyone else here an animal rights advocate?

I'm against using animals as decorations. That's why I go out and remove them from the wilderness. I put them all in a big steel drum. To venture out into the wilderness to appreciate the beauty of the natural world is pure exploitation. It's beauty is a function of it's natural selection, not a trinket for you to gawk at.

I also believe that nothing should be allowed to profit from animal products. That's why I spray defoliants all over the place so that those plants can't go using the carbon dioxide that animals give off.

Yeah, I am a strict vegetarian. I agree with supporting animal rights.

I'm not a vegetarian because I love animals, I just really hate plants. - Attributed to Moby.