NationStates Jolt Archive

Conn. Students Get Fines for Cursing
Thursday, December 01, 2005

HARTFORD, Conn. — Bad words are costing some Connecticut high schoolers $103 each.

Police officers assigned to Hartford Public and Bulkeley high schools have fined about two dozen students for cursing in a new program to curtail unruly behavior. The joint effort by school and police officials targets students who swear while defying teachers and administrators.

"We're sending a message to the parents and to the teachers," said Sandy Cruz-Serrano, senior adviser to Superintendent of Schools Robert Henry. "We are trying to bring back order to the schools."

Parents are required to pay the fines if the students cannot.

"Our heads are spinning with that," said Sam Saylor, president of the district Parent Teacher Organization. "The kids are really indecent with their swearing and they're swearing at teachers. This is their way of curtailing it — making the parents pay."

Keila Ayala, 17, a Hartford Public sophomore, said she was ticketed for shouting an expletive in an officer's face while handcuffed for taking a swing at him.

"It'll stop me from swearing," she said. "Well, it won't stop me from swearing, but I won't cuss at the teachers."

George Sugai, who teaches school discipline at UConn's Neag School of Education, is skeptical of the effort. "Research says that punishing kids doesn't teach them the right way to act," he said.

But Hartford Police Officer Roger Pearl said the program is working.

"Before, the kids were swearing all the time. It went from many incidents to almost nothing," he said. "It's quiet in the halls."


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What is the world coming to. This is just admitting that the educational system as well as parenting has failed and we must resort to punitive members. Yeah this will teach students respect. NOT.

Keila Ayala, 17, a Hartford Public sophomore, said she was ticketed for shouting an expletive in an officer's face while handcuffed for taking a swing at him.
Maybe she should have been arrested for trying to hit a cop. This kid just needs her mouth washed out with soap by her parents. What the hell are parents doing today. And don't give me the sob story about working too much. DOH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :mad:

Who'd believe we'd spend more
Shippin' drugs and guns
Than to educate our sons?
Sorry but that's what they did

I can't help but think,
Someone's forsaken you and me
- Megadeth

apt methinks

the world is truely coming to an end

the world is truely coming to an end

You wish.

They should bring back caning. Kids wouldn't give their teachers so much shit if they knew the punishment is being sent to a pervert who will put scorch marks on their arse. :mad:

It is crazzieness, I think it is mostly American schools though... Ive been in others that arent that bad...

Although I would have probably paid the fine at least 10 times if I went to High School there ^^

how is this society failing children? their parents really should have taught them not to swear at authority figures. so the school is doing it for them. seems like a good thing to me.

Yup, you want your FREE education then play by the rules.

*Snip*Maybe she should have been arrested for trying to hit a cop. This kid just needs her mouth washed out with soap by her parents. What the hell are parents doing today. And don't give me the sob story about working too much. DOH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :mad:

She was arrested for trying to hit a cop. That's why she swore.

Oh. My. God. What is the earth coming to?!?!?!

Oh yeah, and the kids got what was comin to 'em

;)

They should bring back caning. Kids wouldn't give their teachers so much shit if they knew the punishment is being sent to a pervert who will put scorch marks on their arse. :mad:


or at least use a belt sander to whip em.

What is the world coming to. This is just admitting that the educational system as well as parenting has failed and we must resort to punitive members. Yeah this will teach students respect. NOT.


Maybe she should have been arrested for trying to hit a cop. This kid just needs her mouth washed out with soap by her parents. What the hell are parents doing today. And don't give me the sob story about working too much. DOH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :mad:
AHAHHAHAHAHAHAhahahaAHAHAAAAA!

oh. they're serious. Hartford, of all places on earth, has decided that SWEARING is their biggest issue?! ha. that really does make me laugh.

Oh, and before criticizing the parents, I suggest you look into what exactly Hartford is like. If the parents aren't working several minimum wage jobs to make ends meat, they are usually doing or selling drugs. There are much bigger issues than telling a teacher to fuck off or having a girl take a swing at an officer. The officer is lucky the girl wasn't holding a knife at the time.

Before people jump all over me for painting with a broad brush, I have worked in Hartford schools before as an aid. They are good kids, and if you respect them, they respect you (in general). The swearing isn't the root of the problem. A kid isn't going to care about algebra if they don't know if they're going home and having anything to eat for the next 24 hours, or hell, if they even have a home anymore. This frustrates the teachers who don't seem to usually accept the kids excuses (many of which are bs, but many are true), and pisses off the students.

It is hard to teach when you hear crying coming from the next room over. And it is the teacher crying.

I told the Chief of Police in my hometown to "Fuck Off." Three times when I was 17.

Though he was wearing plainclothes at the time.

And I didn't recognize him.



And I ended up apologizing profusely.


But it was still seen as bad ass...

I told the Chief of Police in my hometown to "Fuck Off." Three times when I was 17.

Though he was wearing plainclothes at the time.

And I didn't recognize him.



And I ended up apologizing profusely.


But it was still seen as bad ass...
Bad Ass!!!

That just reminded me of Judge Dredd where you are fined every time you swear by machines that monitor what you say...

Oops I mean Demolition Man, thanks JuNii

What the fuck is this?! This is a fuckin' violation of their goddamned freedom of speech! Fuck the police! Fuck the machine! Power to the people!!!

Before people jump all over me for painting with a broad brush, I have worked in Hartford schools before as an aid. They are good kids, and if you respect them, they respect you (in general). The swearing isn't the root of the problem. A kid isn't going to care about algebra if they don't know if they're going home and having anything to eat for the next 24 hours, or hell, if they even have a home anymore. This frustrates the teachers who don't seem to usually accept the kids excuses (many of which are bs, but many are true), and pisses off the students.

Cry me a river. Life is tough, people have had it worse and made it. That doesn't excuse bad manners in the slightest.

Maybe she should have been arrested for trying to hit a cop. This kid just needs her mouth washed out with soap by her parents. What the hell are parents doing today.
Many parents have abdicated their role, preferring to be a "pal" to their children. This is a mistake of tragic proportions.

CLUE: The police aren't going to let you violate the laws like your parents let you violate whatever few "rules" they may have had. And it's not just the police, either. Your employer will definitely take a dim view of things like cussing, losing your temper, etc.

Parents who do no actual parenting are sentancing their children to a lifetime of immaturity and heartache.

What the fuck is this?! This is a fuckin' violation of their goddamned freedom of speech! Fuck the police! Fuck the machine! Power to the people!!!
I rest my case. :rolleyes:

Maybe she should have been arrested for trying to hit a cop. This kid just needs her mouth washed out with soap by her parents. What the hell are parents doing today. And don't give me the sob story about working too much. DOH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :mad:

I 100% agree. Look, I cuss, quite often. I won't lie. But my parents brought me up to where out of respect I'm not gonna cuss in front of an adult. Teachers, parents, cops. Whatever. That's totally stupid. You cuss with your friends if you do at all.

Even if your parents/teachers don't care if you cuss, you should at least keep it to a minimum. But most parents (competent ones) shouldn't let you cuss.

That just reminded me of Judge Dredd where you are fined every time you swear by machines that monitor what you say...
Demolition Man. Not Judge Dredd...

Judge Dredd would just shoot you... not fine you.

Demolition Man. Not Judge Dredd...

Judge Dredd would just shoot you... not fine you.

Ah same actor.. lol, it's been corrected.

Right. Apparently now the government has the right to tell us what we can say on government property. I suppose that such horrible words as "fuck" are going to bring down world order, cause a communist rebellion, and make all those kids start listening to that dangerous Rock and Roll music (worst by far)!

:rolleyes:

This is truly pathetic, IMO.

I think this is a good idea. Society is to soft on children, they need to be taught dicipline.

I think I would be more for caning than fines, unless the parents were fined and then caned their children as their punishment.

Better yet, if they could just come up with a device that delivers electrical shocks to a person when they swear, I think we would have the problem licked. Of course, there would always be those few that were electrocuted because they would swear every time they got shocked, but that's the way things work.

Some people never learn.

Right. Apparently now the government has the right to tell us what we can say on government property. I suppose that such horrible words as "fuck" are going to bring down world order, cause a communist rebellion, and make all those kids start listening to that dangerous Rock and Roll music (worst by far)!

:rolleyes:

This is truly pathetic, IMO.
Yep... Pathetic that the Government on all levels need to assume the responsiblity of Teaching Respect and civility that was once the Parent's Responsibility to Teach.

Swearing at a cop... heck, taking a swing at a cop?
can't speak or convey ideas or feelings without resorting to violence or vulgarity...

yep... truely pathetic.

IMO the children should not be ticketed for swearing on school property.

The children should not be ticketed for what they say at all.

What NEEDS to be done is that more disciplinary measures should be handed to teachers. If that extends to pupils being ticketed for disrupting a lesson, I have no problem with that whatsoever. For assault, attempted or otherwise on school property, further ticketing or arrests.

I can see why it has been done and to an extent I can agree with it. I think it's just been handled in an extremely poor manner.

I'd say it's a bad idea, but someone's gotta pick up the parents slack.

IMO the children should not be ticketed for swearing on school property.

The children should not be ticketed for what they say at all.

What NEEDS to be done is that more disciplinary measures should be handed to teachers. If that extends to pupils being ticketed for disrupting a lesson, I have no problem with that whatsoever. For assault, attempted or otherwise on school property, further ticketing or arrests.

I can see why it has been done and to an extent I can agree with it. I think it's just been handled in an extremely poor manner.don't give the Tickets to the Teachers, but the kid's Parents/Guardians.

If you give the tickets to the teachers then the teachers should have more room for punishing the children... as it stands, they don't.

Sounds like a great new revenue gathering measure. In Michigan, gambling gets money for school. It's just different cultures.

Yep... Pathetic that the Government on all levels need to assume the responsiblity of Teaching Respect and civility that was once the Parent's Responsibility to Teach.

Swearing at a cop... heck, taking a swing at a cop?
can't speak or convey ideas or feelings without resorting to violence or vulgarity...

yep... truely pathetic.

While I agree that violence issomething that ought to be restricted, it is utter nonsense that words are ever legislated against. Respect is a matter of personal choice. I can choose to respect teachers for their actions, but I should never be forced to do so.

It's one thing to punish students for actively interupting lessons (which is wrong because it interferes with the right to education), but cursing is not only a social norm, but an issue of personal morality. Why the fuck should the government tell me, or my future children, what is moral?

North American morality...
I had an (East) Indian friend... he ended up on drugs, so his father blamed canadian culture and his friends (mainly me, who was a policeman raised, strong anti-drug believer) for his actions...

so what is morality?

I don't think it fucking exists, all it is is blaming your kids new bout of cussing on someone

Cry me a river. Life is tough, people have had it worse and made it. That doesn't excuse bad manners in the slightest.
Bad manners are the least of the issue. Yeah, telling a teacher or officer to fuck off isn't exactly great. However, getting rid of swearing without looking at the problem behind it is like stopping the runny nose when you have the flu. Sure, you get rid of one symptom, but you still have tons more, as well as the thing that is causing the problem in the first place.

Hartford is notorious for having horrible teachers. Authoritarians. When I was there tutoring, I gave my students respect. In turn most of them gave me respect. This doesn't mean that I didn't enforce discipline with them. And you know what? When I told them to stop firmly, they did, 95% of the time. Sure, I had a student threaten to beat me up (wouldn't be that difficult, as I was only 2 years older than him, and much smaller).

The issue is hardly swearing. The discipline issue runs deep. It goes back to parents and teachers mostly, but there are countless factors.

Fact is, Hartford is among the poorest cities in America. Yeah, people have it worse, but not many. Hell, there are bathrooms in that school that certain students can't use because they'll get stabbed. And yet, they've decided that SWEARING is the one to go after?! Give me a break.

Respect is a matter of personal choice. I can choose to respect teachers for their actions, but I should never be forced to do so.

Exactly. Respect is earned. No one is going to respect a teacher that comes in and calls the students bastards to their face, or makes a list of 3rd graders who have "disappointed" them the day before. You know what that does to 3rd graders? It makes them feel like shit, and they give up.No one will respect a teacher that says "I can't wait to retire". It makes the kids feel like a burden. Students learn best when they feel like the teacher cares about them. Those are the teachers who make a difference. Show the kids some respect, and maybe, just maybe, they will return the favor.

I wouldn't blame society, I would blame some bad parenting.

I think I would be more for caning than fines, unless the parents were fined and then caned their children as their punishment.

Better yet, if they could just come up with a device that delivers electrical shocks to a person when they swear, I think we would have the problem licked. Of course, there would always be those few that were electrocuted because they would swear every time they got shocked, but that's the way things work.

Some people never learn.
South Park already tried that, and Cartman ended up going on a DBZ rampage and sending Saddam back to hell. IMO without a Kenny to wish everything back to normal, this would be a bad thing.

... cursing is not only a social norm, but an issue of personal morality.
No, it's just bad manners. The parents should be horse-whipped. :headbang:

While I agree that violence issomething that ought to be restricted, it is utter nonsense that words are ever legislated against. Respect is a matter of personal choice. I can choose to respect teachers for their actions, but I should never be forced to do so.

It's one thing to punish students for actively interupting lessons (which is wrong because it interferes with the right to education), but cursing is not only a social norm, but an issue of personal morality. Why the fuck should the government tell me, or my future children, what is moral?

It probably wouldn't have come to this if people were to have the courage to speak up and express that they consider swearing totally unacceptable. There's probably a couple of people thinking "well what about freedom of speech?". What about freedom of speech? If someone is going to use their freedom of speech to swear, then it should be equally acceptable for someone else to use their freedom of speech to tell them to knock it off.

I wonder sometimes if people understand what discipline is when it comes to children. The long and short of it is bad behavior has bad consequences. The consequences may be long in coming, but they will come. What's more damaging? A child getting smacked upside the head for mouthing off to their parents or a child growing to an adult and getting fired from a good job because they mouthed off to their boss?

Discipline can be painful to the recipient. The main reason that corporal punishment has been discouraged, if not outlawed, is because from an objective point of view, it is not possible to distinguish between someone administering discipline and someone venting their frustrations.

I haven't heard of anyone in my grade cursing at a teacher. But outside of class...dear god it's scary;)

Good thing that I don't attend that school. I have tourette syndrome.

how is this society failing children? their parents really should have taught them not to swear at authority figures. so the school is doing it for them. seems like a good thing to me.
Respect is earned not forced into someone. Obviously the parents are not doing a proper job in raising their children and the teachers are failing as well too. When I was a little kid I once told my dear departed Mom to fuck off. She said, "Fuck off yourself and get up to your fucking room!!!" I never swore at here again. I also respected the majority of my teachers and never swore at them. Even the ones I didn't really respect (due to their lack of teaching/people skills) I still respected the position and didn't swear at them.

AHAHHAHAHAHAHAhahahaAHAHAAAAA!

oh. they're serious. Hartford, of all places on earth, has decided that SWEARING is their biggest issue?! ha. that really does make me laugh.

Oh, and before criticizing the parents, I suggest you look into what exactly Hartford is like. If the parents aren't working several minimum wage jobs to make ends meat, they are usually doing or selling drugs. There are much bigger issues than telling a teacher to fuck off or having a girl take a swing at an officer. The officer is lucky the girl wasn't holding a knife at the time.

Before people jump all over me for painting with a broad brush, I have worked in Hartford schools before as an aid. They are good kids, and if you respect them, they respect you (in general). The swearing isn't the root of the problem. A kid isn't going to care about algebra if they don't know if they're going home and having anything to eat for the next 24 hours, or hell, if they even have a home anymore. This frustrates the teachers who don't seem to usually accept the kids excuses (many of which are bs, but many are true), and pisses off the students.

It is hard to teach when you hear crying coming from the next room over. And it is the teacher crying.
Obviously there's worse problems then swearing but the article was about swearing. But the argument (string) is that fiining people won't make them respect you.

That just reminded me of Judge Dredd where you are fined every time you swear by machines that monitor what you say...

Oops I mean Demolition Man, thanks JuNii
I hated that movie!!!!!!!!! But whats her name still looked good in it.

What the fuck is this?! This is a fuckin' violation of their goddamned freedom of speech! Fuck the police! Fuck the machine! Power to the people!!!
Well I guess you could let them use their freedom of speech to get kicked right out of school and then they can talk all they want while waiting in the welfare line with some kids hanging off them and a father in prison.

I 100% agree. Look, I cuss, quite often. I won't lie. But my parents brought me up to where out of respect I'm not gonna cuss in front of an adult. Teachers, parents, cops. Whatever. That's totally stupid. You cuss with your friends if you do at all.

Even if your parents/teachers don't care if you cuss, you should at least keep it to a minimum. But most parents (competent ones) shouldn't let you cuss.
The worse is when you're waiting at a bus stop and there's several teens there and it's like fuck this...fuck that.. It irritates me but I don't mind that much. I just hate when they continue to do it when there's the old lady in her kerchief waiting for the bus too. No respect for the elderly.

Right. Apparently now the government has the right to tell us what we can say on government property. I suppose that such horrible words as "fuck" are going to bring down world order, cause a communist rebellion, and make all those kids start listening to that dangerous Rock and Roll music (worst by far)!

:rolleyes:

This is truly pathetic, IMO.
I know what you mean. I was on a plane once and my buddy Jack, who I hadn't seen in ages, was sitting up from me. I yelled out HI JACK. And then I was tackled, arrested, strip searched and interogated. Hurt me damn hemeroids. :rolleyes:

While I agree that violence issomething that ought to be restricted, it is utter nonsense that words are ever legislated against. Respect is a matter of personal choice. I can choose to respect teachers for their actions, but I should never be forced to do so.

It's one thing to punish students for actively interupting lessons (which is wrong because it interferes with the right to education), but cursing is not only a social norm, but an issue of personal morality. Why the fuck should the government tell me, or my future children, what is moral?
Social Norm? I don't think that is correct. Eitherwise I'd be hearing parents and grandparents swearing aloud every time I went to a restaurant or the mall. If it was a "norm" waiters would be saying, "Can I take your fucking order? The soup of the day is shit I'd order the house salad instead. Its fucking A."
Respect and morality or two different things. I mean there are polite serial killers.