NationStates Jolt Archive


Former NYC Mayor Rudolph Giuliani holds forth on Patriot Act

Eutrusca
17-12-2005, 16:26
COMMENTARY: This article by former NYC Mayor Rudolph Giuliani pretty much descibes my own thoughts on the Patriot Act. Yes, there have been abuses, which the revisions to the Act seek to prevent in the future. Yes, there have been mistakes which we should strongly attempt to avoid in the future. But all in all, the Patriot Act is a first attempt to deal with the new realities of terrorism in the 21st Century. The potential consequences of failing to prevent terrorist acts on US soil are far too dire to do otherwise.


Taking Liberties With the Nation's Security (http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/17/opinion/17giuliani.html?th&emc=th)


By RUDOLPH W. GIULIANI
Published: December 17, 2005
YESTERDAY the Senate failed to reauthorize the USA Patriot Act, as a Democratic-led filibuster prevented a vote. This action - which leaves the act, key elements of which are due to expire on Dec. 31, in limbo - represents a grave potential threat to the nation's security. I support the extension of the Patriot Act for one simple reason: Americans must use every legal and constitutional tool in their arsenal to fight terrorism and protect their lives and liberties.

The attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, made clear that the old rules no longer work. The terrorists who attacked us seek to kill innocent men, women and children of all races and creeds. They seek to destroy our liberties. They willingly kill themselves in their effort to bring death and suffering to as many innocents as they can, here in this country or anywhere in the world where freedom has a foothold.

In October 2001, after six weeks of intense scrutiny and debate, Congress passed the Patriot Act overwhelmingly (98 to 1 in the Senate and 356 to 66 in the House). We had already received clear signals about our enemies' intentions, in the first attacks against the World Trade Center in 1993, the bombings of our embassies in Kenya and Tanzania in 1998 and the attack on the Navy destroyer Cole two years after that. Despite the abundance of warning signs, it took Sept. 11 to wake us to the dangers we face.

The central provisions of the Patriot Act allow law enforcement and the intelligence community to share information. This might seem elementary, but for years law enforcement had been stymied by a legal wall that prevented agencies from sharing information. For four years now, inter-agency collaboration, made possible by the Patriot Act, has played an important role in preventing another day like Sept. 11. The act's provisions helped make possible the investigations in Lackawanna, N.Y., and Portland, Ore., in which 12 people were ultimately convicted for attempts to aid Al Qaeda and the Taliban.

So what happened in Washington? The House voted on Wednesday to renew the act; it stalled in the Senate. If the Senate fails to approve the extension, the government will be forced to revert in many ways to our pre-Sept. 11 methods. Sixteen provisions of the Patriot Act are set to expire on Dec. 31, including the key information-sharing ones.

It is simply false to claim, as some of its critics do, that this bill does not respond to concerns about civil liberties. The four-year extension of the Patriot Act, as passed by the House, would not only reauthorize the expiring provisions - allowing our Joint Terrorism Task Force, National Counterterrorism Center and Terrorist Screening Center to continue their work uninterrupted - it would also make a number of common-sense clarifications and add dozens of additional civil liberties safeguards.

Concerns have been raised about the so-called library records provision; the bill adds safeguards. The same is true for roving wiretaps, "sneak and peek" searches and access to counsel and courts, as well as many others concerns raised by groups like the American Library Association and the American Civil Liberties Union.

Given these improvements, there is simply no compelling argument for going backward in the fight against terrorism. Perhaps a reminder is in order. The bipartisan 9/11 commission described a vivid example of how the old ways hurt us. In the summer of 2001, an F.B.I. agent investigating two individuals we now know were hijackers on Sept. 11 asked to share information with another team of agents. This request was refused because of the wall. The agent's response was tragically prescient: "Someday, someone will die - and wall or not - the public will not understand why we were not more effective."

How quickly we forget.
Psychotic Mongooses
17-12-2005, 16:32
...and?

I'm not exactly shocked that Guliani is pro-Patriot Act.
:eek:
The Nazz
17-12-2005, 16:33
The blame for the lack of reauthorization lands squarely on the shoulders of Senate Republicans. They waited till the last minute to debate it, and when it faced filibuster, as they knew it would, they refused to agree to a 90 day extension to allow for debate. They lost when they pushed for the full reauthorization, because a bipartisan group of Senators basically said "we didn't debate this enough the first time around, and we're not making that mistake again."

Just to reiterate--this was the compromise: extend the PATRIOT Act as is for ninety days so there can be a real debate on it. Frist and his followers said no. So when the provisions expire on Dec. 31 (which I will be glad to see happen), place the blame on the people who deserve it--the Senators who act as though debate and discussion means "bend over and take it," and who got slapped down for it.
Zhantuu
17-12-2005, 16:33
meh, people died, they should have seen it coming.
Myrmidonisia
17-12-2005, 16:34
meh, people died, they should have seen it coming.
What?
Zhantuu
17-12-2005, 17:09
I just think they should get over the fact that people died...

they make a big fuss about 3000 people who died in the USA...

who cares? only people who have no concept that THERE IS A REST OF THE WORLD....
Eutrusca
17-12-2005, 17:13
I just think they should get over the fact that people died...

they make a big fuss about 3000 people who died in the USA...

who cares? only people who have no concept that THERE IS A REST OF THE WORLD....
Oh, for God's sake! Here ... have a trout!
http://img353.imageshack.us/img353/7814/smileytroutsmack8gs.gif (http://imageshack.us)
Zhantuu
17-12-2005, 17:16
Oh, for God's sake! Here ... have a trout!
http://img353.imageshack.us/img353/7814/smileytroutsmack8gs.gif (http://imageshack.us)
no... i wouldn't expect you to understand... you're from the USA... clearly that's why you just dismissed my comment...
Eutrusca
17-12-2005, 17:19
no... i wouldn't expect you to understand... you're from the USA... clearly that's why you just dismissed my comment...
I read it ... then dismissed it as being ethnocentric and a bit demented. WTF makes you think that I ( as well as millions of other Americans ) don't give a shit about the rest of the world? That's just ... innane. :p
Zhantuu
17-12-2005, 17:24
I read it ... then dismissed it as being ethnocentric and a bit demented. WTF makes you think that I ( as well as millions of other Americans ) don't give a shit about the rest of the world? That's just ... innane. :p
then let me ask you this...

did you care about the 3000 people who died on september 11th, 2001?
Teh_pantless_hero
17-12-2005, 17:24
I read it ... then dismissed it as being ethnocentric and a bit demented. WTF makes you think that I ( as well as millions of other Americans ) don't give a shit about the rest of the world? That's just ... innane. :p
Right, I'm sure you seriously care about the daily happenings in any foreign country, or even know about them.
Kyleslavia
17-12-2005, 17:25
...and?

I'm not exactly shocked that Guliani is pro-Patriot Act.
:eek:

Exactly, he's a republican/bush supporter kind of guy.
Eutrusca
17-12-2005, 17:27
Right, I'm sure you seriously care about the daily happenings in any foreign country, or even know about them.
Oh. You mean things like this? Nahh. I don't follow any foreign news. :rolleyes:

Australia's Dangerous Fantasy

By EVA SALLIS
Published: December 17, 2005
Adelaide, Australia

LAST Sunday on Cronulla Beach, a suburb of Sydney, thousands of drunken white youths attacked anyone they believed was of Arab descent. Inspired by reports that Lebanese-Australians had assaulted two white lifeguards, text messages calling for a Lebanese "bashing day" appeared on thousands of cellphones. Some of Sunday's assailants wore T-shirts that proclaimed, "We grew here; you flew here," or, "Ethnic cleansing unit."

For many, the Cronulla Beach incident did not come as a surprise. Rather, it was the bubbling up of an undercurrent that is increasingly evident in Australian life.

Newcomers, especially those who form linguistic or ethnically distinct groups, always have a hard time in Australia at first. But Australia is a country that has been created by many streams of immigrants and has come out the better for it. Greeks and Italians are among the largest non-Anglo groups and are fully integrated. Melbourne has the world's third largest Greek community. Vietnamese immigrants experienced racism and hostility when they first arrived in the late 70's and early 80's, but time, and the entry of increasing numbers of Vietnamese-Australians into public life, have eroded that prejudice.

While this country is less diverse than the United States, its minority communities are a core part of its national identity. The notion of an all-white Australia is a fantasy and an anachronism. No dark-haired, dark-eyed Australian would have been safe on Cronulla Beach last Sunday, yet Australia is - has always been - substantially dark-haired and dark-eyed. And the expressed hostility toward "Lebs" as recent intruders belies the history of Australia, where people of Lebanese ancestry have lived for more than a century.

Several recent events have made this latest eruption of racism and xenophobia different from those of the past. While denying even that racism exists, our leaders have given tacit approval and support for it through policy, whether this is policy on refugees, security or Indigenous affairs. The policy of mandatory detention of asylum seekers was strongly linked with border protection from 2001, and, as most asylum seekers of recent years have been from the Middle East and Muslim South Asia, "border protection" has become protection from Muslim refugees in the popular imagination.

Like the United States, Australia has new anti-terrorism legislation, first passed in 2002 and significantly strengthened just recently. Such laws have helped to validate broader community mistrust of Arab and Muslim Australians.

Our government has done little to substantively allay fear of Muslim and Middle Eastern Australians generally or to increase public understanding and appreciation of their culture and contribution to Australian life. Arabic is the fourth most commonly used language after English in Australia, and the most commonly used language after English in New South Wales, Sydney's home state, yet it is taught in only a handful of schools and universities.

In the last five years there has also been evidence of an increase in violence toward people of Arab appearance. An Iraqi writer I know begged his wife and daughter to stop wearing the hijab because of the potential of violence on the street. An Afghan refugee taxi driver in Adelaide said to my partner last night that he thought he would have to quit because his younger passengers were so nasty. In recent years high-profile cases in which Arab-Australian youths were charged with violent crimes generated a storm in the news media, as well as unchecked vilification on talk radio.

Prejudice creates what it fears by curtailing young people's prospects. Young Arab-Australians are increasingly ghettoized in Sydney's poor suburbs, where they struggle for education and jobs. Their families are often prejudiced against non-Arab Australians; the racism of the minority and that of the broader society reinforce each other.

I have Muslim friends who used to feel that they were Australians, but now cannot identify themselves in the negative space created for them in our community. I have non-Muslim friends who are furious at being mistaken for Muslims because of their Middle Eastern background; they are doing all they can to differentiate themselves from people they too are starting to openly dismiss. It has become fashionable, perhaps, to be racist, although none of us, not even our prime minister, is willing to call it what it is.

What happened on Cronulla Beach warns us that our self-inflicted wounds are festering. A volatile part of our community is deeply alienated, unable to belong, and another volatile part has retreated to an irretrievable past and a mythical notion of racial purity. If contemporary Australians are to live at ease with ourselves, we need more education, less fear mongering and, not least, greater honesty about the culture of racism that is so damaging us.
Eutrusca
17-12-2005, 17:28
then let me ask you this...

did you care about the 3000 people who died on september 11th, 2001?
No! I was glad to see them die. After all, they deserved it for being Americans, or for being in America! :rolleyes:
Teh_pantless_hero
17-12-2005, 17:28
Oh wow, you know about the race riots - an incident that made international news. Try again.
Myrmidonisia
17-12-2005, 17:30
Right, I'm sure you seriously care about the daily happenings in any foreign country, or even know about them.
It's really -- I don't know the right word -- disingenuous(?) to claim to care about everywhere all the time. Certainly we can care about what happens on foreign soil when it's a tragic or a celebratory event, but I don't even care about what goes on in LA or Boston on a daily basis.
Eutrusca
17-12-2005, 17:30
Oh wow, you know about the race riots - an incident that made international news. Try again.
My sources for news are almost all, perforce, American media. Either live with it or STFU, young phoole. :p
Zhantuu
17-12-2005, 17:31
No! I was glad to see them die. After all, they deserved it for being Americans, or for being in America! :rolleyes:

ha ha ha.

your sarcasm is overwhelmingly hilarious. for a 7 year old.

did you care about the 30000 people who died on the 11th of september 2000?

I didn't think so.

see, If you give special consideration to every person who dies, you'll spend your whole life in mourning.

and since no person is more important than another, should people from our own country be more important? i think not.
Eutrusca
17-12-2005, 17:33
It's really -- I don't know the right word -- disingenuous(?) to claim to care about everywhere all the time. Certainly we can care about what happens on foreign soil when it's a tragic or a celebratory event, but I don't even care about what goes on in LA or Boston on a daily basis.
You're wasting perfectly good reasoning with those who have no grasp of the concept. :rolleyes:
Teh_pantless_hero
17-12-2005, 17:34
I demand a Bicycle Act which gives the government the ability to secretly look in on my personal life to protect me from injuries caused by using an automobile. Do you know how many people die in automobile accidents every year?
Myrmidonisia
17-12-2005, 17:38
You're wasting perfectly good reasoning with those who have no grasp of the concept. :rolleyes:
I've had teenage daughters. I understand wasted breath. Now they're adult daughters, thank goodness.
OceanDrive3
17-12-2005, 17:39
I'm not exactly shocked that Rudolph is pro-Patriot Act.
:eek:Rudolph is a crazy Patriot?

WTF??

http://www.upyourtee.com/holiday/rudolph_hoody_t.jpg
Psychotic Mongooses
17-12-2005, 17:44
Rudolph is a crazy Patriot?

WTF??

http://www.upyourtee.com/holiday/rudolph_hoody_t.jpg

The glowing red nose gives away his allegance :D :D
OceanDrive3
17-12-2005, 17:49
I demand a Bicycle Act which gives the government the ability to secretly look in on my personal life to protect me from injuries caused by using an automobile. Do you know how many people die in automobile accidents every year?and I demand an Upskirt Surveillance Act.. which gives our Holy government the ability to openly look, photograph, video etc... etc.. etc :D
OceanDrive3
17-12-2005, 17:50
The glowing red nose gives away his allegance :D :DI know..
http://freaky.thehappening.org/src-images/Rudolph.jpg

:D :D :eek: :D