NationStates Jolt Archive

It is about time Congress got off their duff and did something about the problem.

Mexico Condemns Immigration Bill

Saturday, December 17, 2005

MEXICO CITY — The Mexican government slammed the U.S. Congress for approving an immigration bill that would tighten border controls and make it harder for undocumented immigrants to get jobs.

The House of Representatives voted 239-182 in favor of measures that would enlist military and local law enforcement to help stop illegal entrants and require employers to verify the legal status of their workers.

The House also authorized the building of a fence along parts of the U.S.-Mexico border, but did not include any new temporary work program for migrants, something Mexico insists is needed.

"The government of Mexico ... believes that a reform which only considers security measures will not contribute to a better, more integral bilateral management of migration issues," the Foreign Relations department said in a statement.

"The U.S. executive branch publicly expressed its commitment to an integral immigration reform, with a new program for temporary workers," the statement continued. "The Mexican government will redouble its efforts to achieve this shared goal."

President Bush urged Congress almost two years ago to enact a guest worker program that would allow illegal immigrants to stay in the country temporarily to fill jobs unwanted by Americans.

House leaders wouldn't allow a vote on a volatile proposal to deny citizenship to babies born in the United States to illegal immigrants.

But the House did approve building 700 miles of fence along the 2,000-mile U.S.-Mexico border, giving priority for construction in Laredo, Texas. The city is across the border from Nuevo Laredo, Mexico, where warring drug cartels have been blamed for more than 140 killings this year.

Mexico argues existing barriers built along heavily crossed sections of the border have not stopped migrants from crossing, rather have pushed them through more desolate, dangerous areas.

A record number of more than 415 people died crossing the border illegally in 2005, according to statistics from the U.S. Border Patrol for the fiscal year ending Sept. 30. That compares to the previous record of 383 deaths in 2000.

Mexico's National Human Rights Commission described the U.S. measure as "part of a tendency to criminalize migration with a wall that calls to mind the Berlin Wall."

As well as building a wall, the bill would require the Defense and Homeland Security departments to design a plan to use military technology to stop illegal crossings and require all employers in the country, more than 7 million, to check the legal status of workers.

U.S. authorities estimate there are about 11 million undocumented migrants in the United States, about half of whom are Mexican.

Altho I agree with the act on the undocumented immigrants part, the fence is sorta overkill...

Altho I agree with the act on the undocumented immigrants part, the fence is sorta overkill...

Well, if the fence will help keep the illegals out or cut down the number of illegals entering, what's the problem?

Well, if the fence will help keep the illegals out or cut down the number of illegals entering, what's the problem?
No shit! And when do we start construction? And what about one on the NORTHERN border?:mp5:

No shit! And when do we start construction? And what about one on the NORTHERN border?:mp5:

*maintains a tactful silence to avoid being banned for flaming*

Want to cut illegal immigration?

Legalise all immigration.

Want to cut illegal immigration?

Legalise all immigration.

We already have legeal immigration, however it seems some people don't want to go through the process. :(

Want to cut illegal immigration?

Legalise all immigration.
A simple proposition to an increasingly complex problem.

Yep ... nothin' worse than poor people coming here to work. Gotta keep them brown people out, you know. Let's just nuke Mexico.

:rolleyes:

We already have legeal immigration, however it seems some people don't want to go through the process. :(

I don't know that they don't want to go through the process as much as they just don't think that it would be worth it. There's a charge for the application processing, I believe, and the criteria to gain entry (unless you're getting married to a citizen) is pretty...difficult to meet, for many of your average people. If these immigrants could meet the criteria for entry into the US, they wouldn't need to come here. Most of our jobs are being sent to Mexico, as it is. Yes, they pay lower wages for the same jobs there, but the jobs are still there. It's getting extremely difficult for Americans (whether they are college graduates or not) to find decent jobs in many areas of the country anymore, because most of those jobs are going to Mexico.

And now that I have wandered off on a tangent...my main point was that the illegal immigrants probably don't feel the application process and the money required would be worth it, because they're only going to the US to quite probably take a job that only pays $2.00 per hour, because no American citizen is willing to work for that wage. It doesn't mean they wouldn't be willing to go through the process if there were a chance that they would make it through.

Yep ... nothin' worse than poor people coming here to work. Gotta keep them brown people out, you know. Let's just nuke Mexico.

:rolleyes:
Yeah, because anyone who wants border control is obviously a racist. :rolleyes:

Yeah, because anyone who wants border control is obviously a racist. :rolleyes:

Racist? No.

Stupid? Yes.

Either way ...

Racist? No.

Stupid? Yes.

Either way ...
Stupid? No, stupid would be saying we can just open up our borders, and let everybody just walk on in. Kinda like just leaving the front door of your house wide open.

Me? I leave my door shut and locked. Anyone who wants to come in has to knock first. If they're friendly, I'll let them in. Even if they're brown. :rolleyes:

Stupid? No, stupid would be saying we can just open up our borders, and let everybody just walk on in. Kinda like just leaving the front door of your house wide open.

Not the same thing. Not even close to the same thing.

It's the same thing as the gun issue. If you outlaw guns, only criminals will own them. If you outlaw immigration, only criminals will be immigrants.

We've had a pretty tough border for a while ... thousands of people still come here to work to feed their families. I say let them. Nobody deserves to go hungry.

The legal process is too lengthy and hard for the average person to understand. Either dumb it down and simplify it or open the border. Nobody seems to care that Canadians can waltz into our country willy-nilly.

Not the same thing. Not even close to the same thing.

It's the same thing as the gun issue. If you outlaw guns, only criminals will own them. If you outlaw immigration, only criminals will be immigrants.

We've had a pretty tough border for a while ... thousands of people still come here to work to feed their families. I say let them. Nobody deserves to go hungry.

The legal process is too lengthy and hard for the average person to understand. Either dumb it down and simplify it or open the border. Nobody seems to care that Canadians can waltz into our country willy-nilly.

Of course they would be criminal because immigration would be against the law.

Not the same thing. Not even close to the same thing.

It's the same thing as the gun issue. If you outlaw guns, only criminals will own them. If you outlaw immigration, only criminals will be immigrants.

We've had a pretty tough border for a while ... thousands of people still come here to work to feed their families. I say let them. Nobody deserves to go hungry.

The legal process is too lengthy and hard for the average person to understand. Either dumb it down and simplify it or open the border. Nobody seems to care that Canadians can waltz into our country willy-nilly.

Sure it is the same thing. This country allows for legal immigration no matter what a person's origins are. Those who are entering illegally are just like someone who breaks into your house.

The legal process is too lengthy and hard for the average person to understand. Either dumb it down and simplify it or open the border. Nobody seems to care that Canadians can waltz into our country willy-nilly.

Would you prefer the US adopt Canadian immigration polocies?

Would you prefer the US adopt Canadian immigration polocies?

I'd prefer the US not care so much. What are we so afraid of? I thought we were supposed to be the big bad super power.

Sure it is the same thing. This country allows for legal immigration no matter what a person's origins are. Those who are entering illegally are just like someone who breaks into your house.

Not really. Let me invite you to speak to my Irish grandfather ... who happens to be in this country illegaly.

Did he break into your house?

Want to cut illegal immigration?

Legalise all immigration.
With absolutely no controls? Fuck that. The influx of labor will drive wages down to third world standards. The lack of background checks (you just can't run checks on that many people) would allow all kinds of criminals in to start a new life (and commit new crimes). The immigration system right now is fair. Anyone from any part of the world can apply, and has an equal opportunity to become a citizen.

Illegal aliens shouldn't be immediately deported. They should have to do a year of unpaid labor first. They could be used to build the border fences.

Not really. Let me invite you to speak to my Irish grandfather ... who happens to be in this country illegaly.

Did he break into your house?
He broke into our country.

Not the same thing. Not even close to the same thing.

It's the same thing as the gun issue. If you outlaw guns, only criminals will own them. If you outlaw immigration, only criminals will be immigrants.Who said anything about outlawing immigration? I'm talking about the difference between applying for citizenship or a workers permit, and sneaking across our border illegally.

We've had a pretty tough border for a while ... thousands of people still come here to work to feed their families. I say let them. Nobody deserves to go hungry.Your right, no one deserves to go hungry. But that doesn't excuse people from stealing from a store, or robbing a bank. Why should it excuse illegal immigration?

And why doesn't anyone ever take the Mexican government to task? If they got there heads out of their asses, and created some jobs for their citizens, we wouldn't have this problem, now would we? Instead, they publish handbooks on how to sneak into America.

Don't punish Americans because Mexican families can't find good work in their own country. I'd say the blame rests squarely on the shoulders of the Mexican government.

The legal process is too lengthy and hard for the average person to understand. Either dumb it down and simplify it or open the border. Nobody seems to care that Canadians can waltz into our country willy-nilly.
I'm all for simplifying the process. Why don't you push for that instead of just saying "screw it, just lettem all through"

Opening the borders would be dangerous and just plain irresponsible. If we simplify the process to eneter, then the honest people just looking for work won't have a problem, right?

I'd prefer the US not care so much. What are we so afraid of? I thought we were supposed to be the big bad super power.
Do you let people just walk into your house off the street whenever they want? Sure, most won't steal anything or hurt your family, but it will still cost you money in the long run and be a serious inconvenience.

Not really. Let me invite you to speak to my Irish grandfather ... who happens to be in this country illegaly.

Did he break into your house?

Yes.

Is he still at the bar?

Sure it is the same thing. This country allows for legal immigration no matter what a person's origins are. Those who are entering illegally are just like someone who breaks into your house.
i like that metaphor... why should it be illegal to tresspass on private property and a felony to break into someones house, but only a civil offense to violate the soveriegn borders of this country.

Yep ... nothin' worse than poor people coming here to work. Gotta keep them brown people out, you know. Let's just nuke Mexico.

:rolleyes:
GM and other companies are bringing jobs to them courtesy of NAFTA. Should they be allowed to flood our labor market here in the US and drive down wages to third world levels? You seem to think that just because they're "brown people" they deserve to be able to make life harder for the "evil white man".

Don't punish Americans because Mexican families can't find good work in their own country. I'd say the blame rests squarely on the shoulders of the Mexican government.

As long as we feel we can tell other governments what to do, then we must accept the consequences of building ourselves up to be so great.

Opening the borders would be dangerous and just plain irresponsible.

Why do you live in fear?

Sure it is the same thing. This country allows for legal immigration no matter what a person's origins are. Those who are entering illegally are just like someone who breaks into your house.
Outside the 20,000 temporary agricultural workers program, a Mexican has virtually no way of legally migrating to the USA without marrying a US citizen. Immigration from Mexico is almost always denied because the Immigration Department feels there already too many.

That's part of what the Mexican government is asking, to open up immigration to Mexicans. Of course, the US is also right in demanding Mexico to create new jobs and opportunities for Mexicans. A simple fence won't help much, if at all.

Yes.

Is he still at the bar?

He's never touched a drop of alcohol in his life.

Outside the 20,000 temporary agricultural workers program, a Mexican has virtually no way of legally migrating to the USA without marrying a US citizen. Immigration from Mexico is almost always denied because the Immigration Department feels there already too many.

That's part of what the Mexican government is asking, to open up immigration to Mexicans. Of course, the US is also right in demanding Mexico to create new jobs and opportunities for Mexicans. A simple fence won't help much, if at all.
I find it pretty hard to believe that legal immigration from Mexico is routinely denied. If that were true there would be Chicano special interest groups in the media and on Capitol Hill screaming about it.

Do you have some evidence that US immigration policies are discriminatory against Mexicans?

the problem is the incentives, if they get free medicare, free education etc, then sure the illegals will come in droves.

As long as we feel we can tell other governments what to do, then we must accept the consequences of building ourselves up to be so great.So because we have become such a great nation, we now have to take up the slack of all the nations who can't make it on their own?


Why do you live in fear?
I don't live in fear. I live in safety. Which is why I wear a seatbelt. And why I don't cross the street without looking both ways. And why I don't speed in inclement weather. It's called common sense safety measures.

Why do you live in naivety?

He's never touched a drop of alcohol in his life.

Are you for real?

Ho-lee Jesus!

I find it pretty hard to believe that legal immigration from Mexico is routinely denied. If that were true there would be Chicano special interest groups in the media and on Capitol Hill screaming about it.

Do you have some evidence that US immigration policies are discriminatory against Mexicans?
It's not discriminatory per se. The US has immigration quotas, and Mexico simply fills its quota through the agricultural workers. That leaves skilled professionals or other unskilled labor without much resource. They could still do it legally if they have a close relative in the US, but that takes up to 10 years and is very costly.

I don't live in fear. I live in safety. Which is why I wear a seatbelt.

You wear a seatbelt to keep from going through the windshield in a wreck. Not the same thing. That would assume that all illegals are here to stab you, hence, you keep out the illegals.

Has an illegal immigrant stolen your TV or something? I just don't get where you're coming from. I'm willing to bet that no illegal immigrant has ever once, in any way, made you to suffer.

So ... I ask again ... why do you live in fear?

Are you for real?


Yep ... he never has. He watched his father be destroyed by alcohol and made a vow never to drink. He's upheld that vow.

It's not discriminatory per se. The US has immigration quotas, and Mexico simply fills its quota through the agricultural workers. That leaves skilled professionals or other unskilled labor without much resource. They could still do it legally if they have a close relative in the US, but that takes up to 10 years and is very costly.
Somehow I don't see alot of doctors and lawyers comming over illegally. So basically we've got a situation where a bunch of unskilled workers from Mexico want an unfairly higher share of those legal immigration positions. If we let them in it will drive down wages for unskilled US workers.

Seems to me that the US government should take care of it's own unskilled workers first rather than just allow wages to drop down to third world standards. Then where will all the legal Mexican immigrants be able to go to improve their lives?

You wear a seatbelt to keep from going through the windshield in a wreck. Not the same thing. That would assume that all illegals are here to stab you, hence, you keep out the illegals.

Has an illegal immigrant stolen your TV or something? I just don't get where you're coming from. I'm willing to bet that no illegal immigrant has ever once, in any way, made you to suffer.

So ... I ask again ... why do you live in fear?
You really need some reality lessons, man. I wear a seatbelt to prevent me from going through the windshield IN THE EVENT OF AN ACCIDENT. Doesn't mean that every time I drive, I'm gonna wreck. But since the chance that I will exists, I wear the belt.

No Illegal immigrant has ever made me suffer personally that I know of. But, of course, I've never been thrown through a windshield either. I still wear my seatbelt though. Know why? Because I believe in preventative measures.

That's the problem with your mindset. You think that just because it hasn't happened yet, then there's no reason to do anything to prevent it. Well, guess what. When it happens, it's already too late.

He's never touched a drop of alcohol in his life.

Why don't I believe that? Maybe because I know my Irish grandfather did, but then again....

Somehow I don't see alot of doctors and lawyers comming over illegally. So basically we've got a situation where a bunch of unskilled workers from Mexico want an unfairly higher share of those legal immigration positions. If we let them in it will drive down wages for unskilled US workers.
There are. Every year a higher share of illegal immigrants crossing from Mexico have some sort of college education. The labor situation in Mexico is so bad that most graduate's real choice is in underemployment. Many prefer to be underemployed in the US (where eventually they could find something in their field) than in Mexico. So, they take that chance.

Seems to me that the US government should take care of it's own unskilled workers first rather than just allow wages to drop down to third world standards. Then where will all the legal Mexican immigrants be able to go to improve their lives?
Agreed. Mexico also has to shape up. The Mexican government, especially this administration, has acted extremely irresponsibly by encouraging people to emigrate illegaly instead of providing jobs, security, and opportunities.

You wear a seatbelt to keep from going through the windshield in a wreck. Not the same thing. That would assume that all illegals are here to stab you, hence, you keep out the illegals.

Has an illegal immigrant stolen your TV or something? I just don't get where you're coming from. I'm willing to bet that no illegal immigrant has ever once, in any way, made you to suffer.

So ... I ask again ... why do you live in fear?

You did not live next door to the ones that lived next door to me.

snip...Then where will all the legal Mexican immigrants be able to go to improve their lives?

Mexico where all the semi-skilled jobs are going. :D

Mexico's National Human Rights Commission described the U.S. measure as "part of a tendency to criminalize migration with a wall that calls to mind the Berlin Wall."
That line gave me a chuckle. One, the Berlin Wall was designed to keep people in, not out; and two, illegal immigration is already criminal, something the Mexican government chooses to overlook.

Mexico where all the semi-skilled jobs are going. :D
Viva Mexico!

To begin with, it's a myth that Mexicans come here looking for work because they cant find it at home. Most of them give up jobs to come here. Link:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/12/06/AR2005120601491.html

Also, of course Mexico wants us to allow unlimited immigration. That is their saftey valve. If all these illegal immigrants were forced to stay in Mexico they might actually rise up aginst their corrupt government and police forces, unionize to force wages up, and otherwise actually improve conditions at home. That would be bad for those in power.

I have no problem with immigration. Without it, our population would be in decline like most of the developed world. And that would be bad for many reasons. But unlimited immigration is bad for both sides.

To begin with, it's a myth that Mexicans come here looking for work because they cant find it at home. Most of them give up jobs to come here.
Yeah. Most of them have some kind of job, but at what pay? Often this is not enough, even minimum wage in Mexico is about US$5 a day, or is very unstable. If they can do the same kind of job in the US for substantially more money, they'll try to get there.

Somehow, I am surprised that nobody has even mentioned the overwhelmingly important issue of terrorism. If we were to fully open our borders, it would obviously involve a major decrease in homeland security, which we have been working so hard to increase since September 11th.

Yeah. Most of them have some kind of job, but at what pay? Often this is not enough, even minimum wage in Mexico is about US$5 a day, or is very unstable. If they can do the same kind of job in the US for substantially more money, they'll try to get there.

I agree that working conditions and pay are horrible over there. This is why they should unionize and fight for beter conditions. When pay and working conditions were apalling in the US, the workers risked their lives to improve the situation. Are those who say we should have unregulated immigration saying that Mexicans are not capable of doing the same thing? Isn't their homeland worth fighting for? If we're truly concerned about their welfare, maybe we should help fund their fight for higher living standards instead of just allowing them to hide from their problems over here.

I agree that working conditions and pay are horrible over there. This is why they should unionize and fight for beter conditions. When pay and working conditions were apalling in the US, the workers risked their lives to improve the situation. Are those who say we should have unregulated immigration saying that Mexicans are not capable of doing the same thing? Isn't their homeland worth fighting for? If we're truly concerned about their welfare, maybe we should help fund their fight for higher living standards instead of just allowing them to hide from their problems over here.

We want immigrants to come to the US. The effects of immigrants working hard and investing in the US has been resoundingly successful, and we want that to continue. We encourage immigration because it benefits us as well as those who come here.