NationStates Jolt Archive


Jews and the far Right?

The Atlantian islands
17-12-2005, 05:04
Your comments on this. This seems to be a growing topic in European News. Islam and Europe, however, I found this one exceptionally interesting....

Your thoughts?

Stewart Ain, Jewish Week (New York City), Dec. 9, 2005


Polls are suggesting that Filip Dewinter, chairman of the Vlaams Belang (Flemish Interest) Party in Antwerp, could become the Belgian city’s next mayor and the most successful far-right politician in Europe, bypassing the likes of Jean-Marie Le Pen in France and Jorg Haider in Austria.

Perhaps surprising is that Dewinter, who has been called a “Haider without the anti-Semitic background,” is reaching out to the city’s 20,000 Jews and receiving support from a small but growing number.

They are seeing Dewinter, 43, in a more favorable light because of his pledge to protect the Jews from attacks by Muslim immigrants who come mostly from Morocco and Turkey, according to Hans Knoop, a retired Dutch journalist who now runs his own media consulting agency and has lived in Belgium since 1990.

“Orthodox rabbis openly support him, and he has started a charm campaign to the Orthodox community and to Israelis,” Knoop said. “He gave an interview to [the Israeli newspaper Haaretz] in which he said there is a danger from the left and from Muslims. He is successful because some Jews fall for his charms. They say that if he hates the Arabs, he is our friend.”

Attacks against Jews and Jewish property—including an assault on the chief rabbi of Brussels and the firebombing of a Jewish bookstore in Brussels—prompted The Simon Wiesenthal Center in April 2002 to issue a travel advisory urging Jews to use “extreme caution” when traveling to Belgium.

The ban remains in effect, according to Rabbi Abraham Cooper, the center’s associate dean, because Belgian authorities have made no concerted effort to arrest and punish the perpetrators.

{snip}

Dewinter is capitalizing on the fear in the Jewish community and on its support for Israel, which he openly champions while many other Belgian political leaders view Israel as an occupying power.

“A lot of individuals … cannot follow anymore those in the Jewish establishment who say they should vote for the Liberal Party,” said Henri Rosenberg, a chasid and law professor at Catholic University in Holland.

“In the last few years, the Liberal Party has taken into its midst some extremist elements who support Hezbollah and Hamas, while Dewinter is very charming and has been interviewed in Jewish newspapers and he meets with rabbis,” he said. “A lot of Jews are not following the establishment and will vote for him.”

{snip}

In an e-mail interview, Dewinter did not deny that his Vlaams Belang Party has attracted Holocaust deniers and that “some youths with Nazi sympathies think we are their allies. But we are not. They are not welcome.

“There are some very small Nazi groups in Belgium, but they hate us,” he said. “They say we are the accomplices of international Jewry and that we betrayed nationalism in return for Jewish money, that we kowtow for international Zionism, and so on. You certainly know that kind of slander.”

Knoop dismissed critics who call Dewinter’s party “fascists” and “anti-Semites.” But he said he cannot “whitewash the fact that high-ranking party officials of Vlaams Belang in the past openly denied the Holocaust… . The fact that those who have denied the Holocaust in the past could remain party members casts serious doubt” about his support for Jews.

“It is not an anti-Semitic party, but a party where anti-Semites feel at ease,” Knoop said. “I am afraid that during the next election more Jewish voters will support him because he stands firm behind Israel and the safety of the Jewish community in Antwerp.”

In a regional election in June, one poll had the Vlaams Belang Party receiving 5 percent of the Jewish vote in Antwerp. Overall the party, which espouses anti-immigrant views and seeks independence for Belgium’s Flemish-speaking northern Flanders region, won 24 percent of the vote, making it the second largest party in the Dutch-speaking part of Belgium.

{snip}

The increasing support for Dewinter and his party comes just a year after Dewinter’s original party, Vlaams Blok, was declared racist by Belgium’s Supreme Court on Nov. 9, 2004. The court found that the party “continually incites toward racial discrimination and segregation”—action that could have led to a ban on the party.

Five days later, leaders of Vlaams Blok adopted their new name, Vlaams Belang, in order to continue receiving government funding and avoid being prosecuted for associating with a banned party. But little else changed.

Dewinter acknowledged in the e-mail interview that “we have not changed so much since our conviction … but the conviction was a sham. It was a political process aimed at curtailing an opposition party.

“The laws used in this conviction were specially concocted to eliminate our party,” he said. “In the United States we would have been acquitted under the First Amendment protecting free speech.”

Rather than hurt Dewinter, the court action appears to have helped fuel the party’s climb in the polls, support that has consistently increased over the past 20 years. And Dewinter himself has been transformed into what one newspaper called a “leading political force.”

{snip}

“First they go after radical Islam, then they will go after the Jews,” he said. “In our view, Judaism and Islam are absolutely not two of the same kind. On the contrary, they are foes. One has to choose sides. Which side are you on in the war on terror? The side of Western democracy and Western civilization, with its Judeo-Christian roots, or the side of radical Islam? The side of Great Britain, America and Israel, or the side of Iran, Sudan and the Taliban?”

Asked about those who say that Jews should not vote for a party that espouses xenophobia, Dewinter replied: “Xenophobia is not the word I would use. If it absolutely must be a ‘phobia,’ let it be ‘Islamophobia.’

“Yes, we’re afraid of Islam. The Islamization of Europe is a frightening thing. Even distinguished Jewish scholars as Bat Ye’or and Bernard Lewis warned of this. If this historical process continues, the Jews will be the first victims. Europe will become as dangerous for them as Egypt or Algeria. So, I return your question. Should Jews vote for a party that wants to stop the spread of Islam in Europe?”

Heres a link to the whole article, without the snips.

http://www.thejewishweek.com/news/newscontent.php3?artid=11767
The Atlantian islands
17-12-2005, 05:17
I could have put a better tittle for this thread, haha, Jews and the far Right sounds a little...eh, strange, lol.
Psychotic Mongooses
17-12-2005, 05:23
Link?
The Atlantian islands
17-12-2005, 05:27
Link?

Ha, you didnt think I just made that article up did you?

Hold on let me ask my friend for the link to it (he sent it to me), then I will attach it to my orginal post...One sec.
OceanDrive3
17-12-2005, 05:27
Jews and the far Right sounds a little...eh, strange, lol.Actually No. It does not.

ever heard of the NeoCons ?
Psychotic Mongooses
17-12-2005, 05:29
Ha, you didnt think I just made that article up did you?

Hold on let me ask my friend for the link to it (he sent it to me), then I will attach it to my orginal post...One sec.

Oh no, not at all. Just wondering where it came from so I can see it in its natural state.... a personal quirk, I like seeing articles in their 'home' page ;)
OceanDrive3
17-12-2005, 05:30
Ha, you didnt think I just made that article up did you?No he does not think that... He just wanna check the whole enchilada.

I know Psychotic Mongooses.
The Atlantian islands
17-12-2005, 05:31
Oh no, not at all. Just wondering where it came from so I can see it in its natural state.... a personal quirk, I like seeing articles in their 'home' page ;)

Ha, no problemo...just updated my orginal post..its on there, after the article I cited it.
The Atlantian islands
17-12-2005, 05:37
Actually No. It does not.

ever heard of the NeoCons ?

Ha, funny funny...Neocons are not FAR right though.
Psychotic Mongooses
17-12-2005, 05:59
Thanks :)

I got half way through roughly when I got the general trend between the lines- I feel (only my opinion obviously) this has less to do with Jew/Muslim relations and the sparring for votes by this party, and more to do with the power the Jewish community has in Antwerp.

The location of this is very important- as said in the snipped parts- Antwerp is the worlds leading centre for diamond trading and theis is almost solely in the control of the Jewish ethnic group in Antwerp. This gives them great political clout and makes them an attractive ally in any upcoming political race. They bring in a lot of trade, boost the economy and it makes good PR in the papers to boot.

Conversely, the Muslims immigrants do not have this same 'gift' to offer. Most are poorly educated and take on more menial tasks. They do not have a powerful sector of society behind them so it is easier to politically attack them- more so in these days.

I feel this political powerplay in this article, has more to do with basic economics/kissing babies opportunities than any specific alliance of Jew and 'Far Right'....my opinion.
The Atlantian islands
17-12-2005, 06:00
Ha, funny funny...Neocons are not FAR right though.

This is exactly what these kinds of groups need in order for the automatic image of "Right" to be associated with Neo-Nazi in Europe, Jews voting for them. I never thought I'd lived to see the day. But now its here and I am so happy my fellow Jews in Europe are starting to wise up and vote right.
The Atlantian islands
17-12-2005, 06:06
Thanks :)

I got half way through roughly when I got the general trend between the lines- I feel (only my opinion obviously) this has less to do with Jew/Muslim relations and the sparring for votes by this party, and more to do with the power the Jewish community has in Antwerp.

The location of this is very important- as said in the snipped parts- Antwerp is the worlds leading centre for diamond trading and theis is almost solely in the control of the Jewish ethnic group in Antwerp. This gives them great political clout and makes them an attractive ally in any upcoming political race. They bring in a lot of trade, boost the economy and it makes good PR in the papers to boot.

Conversely, the Muslims immigrants do not have this same 'gift' to offer. Most are poorly educated and take on more menial tasks. They do not have a powerful sector of society behind them so it is easier to politically attack them- more so in these days.

I feel this political powerplay in this article, has more to do with basic economics/kissing babies opportunities than any specific alliance of Jew and 'Far Right'....my opinion.

And I can totally see where your getting that from. All I have to say is that, being Jewish and being around Jews, I know that Jews have no love for muslims, and DO feel threatend by them. So while the political party may be using Jews to gain votes, I do feel that the Jews are honest in their voting for that party because they DO feel threatend by the muslims and are placing their trust in this political party because they feel that this is the only part that will do something about it, (or is atleast talking about it).
Neu Leonstein
17-12-2005, 06:23
I don't like this whole anti-Islamic climate that comes up these days. Jews are people like everyone else, so they are just as likely to join this witchhunt - but it's bullshit that people would still not have learned what happens if you single out groups in society for special treatment.
Katzistanza
17-12-2005, 06:39
I don't like this whole anti-Islamic climate that comes up these days. Jews are people like everyone else, so they are just as likely to join this witchhunt - but it's bullshit that people would still not have learned what happens if you single out groups in society for special treatment.

Or special persecution.
The Atlantian islands
17-12-2005, 15:11
I don't like this whole anti-Islamic climate that comes up these days. Jews are people like everyone else, so they are just as likely to join this witchhunt - but it's bullshit that people would still not have learned what happens if you single out groups in society for special treatment.

Yes but it seems like the Islam that they are concerned about is not a friendly one. It seems they are concered about it because the muslims are threatening the Jews and non Jews of Belgium. Its not like they just woke up one morning and were like, "Hey lets just pick on the muslims". There are logical reasons behind this.
Zero Six Three
17-12-2005, 15:17
I could have put a better tittle for this thread, haha, Jews and the far Right sounds a little...eh, strange, lol.
It sounds like a name for a Ska band...
Cute little girls
17-12-2005, 15:20
Well Filip Dewinter would do anything to gain popularity and power, if he weren't so ugly he'd probably prostitute himself:p
No seriously, I'm Flemish and the Vlaams Belang can't do anything but moan about how everything in Belgium goes wrong due to the current powers (while they don't have any alternatives themselves)
Oh, and some time ago they got convicted for being racist. But that didn't stop them, they just changed their name and some of their opinions on paper. Obviously they didn't change one bit.
The Atlantian islands
17-12-2005, 15:38
Well Filip Dewinter would do anything to gain popularity and power, if he weren't so ugly he'd probably prostitute himself:p
No seriously, I'm Flemish and the Vlaams Belang can't do anything but moan about how everything in Belgium goes wrong due to the current powers (while they don't have any alternatives themselves)
Oh, and some time ago they got convicted for being racist. But that didn't stop them, they just changed their name and some of their opinions on paper. Obviously they didn't change one bit.

Yes, they were convicted of discrimination (against muslims no doubt). However I read that he said that in a country like America, there would have been no case because he would have been protected under the first amendment. I dunno how that works out.
OceanDrive3
17-12-2005, 17:01
However I read that he said that in a country like America, there would have been no case because he would have been protected under the first amendment. I dunno how that works out.Let me give you an example:
in the US.. you can write a book contesting the "6 million" jewish number.. apparently that is illegal in some parts of Europe.
The Atlantian islands
18-12-2005, 04:19
Let me give you an example:
in the US.. you can write a book contesting the "6 million" jewish number.. apparently that is illegal in some parts of Europe.

Hmm...that seems a bit dumb, its illegal to write a book...
Neu Leonstein
18-12-2005, 04:26
Hmm...that seems a bit dumb, its illegal to write a book...
Wait a minute here.
Read this: http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10061428&postcount=87
The Atlantian islands
18-12-2005, 04:33
Wait a minute here.
Read this: http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10061428&postcount=87

Hmm..thanks, that was interesting. I was just wondering though, are these laws nessecary? I mean not all western countries have them, right? I just dont really see the purpose, when we dont have this kinda stuff in our soceity and everything is also fine. I mean, its like if you come out denying the holocaust in America, its not illegal, but everyone will think your and idiot/neo-nazi/physco, so basically you will be commiting social suicide.
Neu Leonstein
18-12-2005, 04:38
Hmm..thanks, that was interesting. I was just wondering though, are these laws nessecary?
That's were the debate comes in. Personally I can live with them, simply because I hate all forms of Nazism, Racism and otherwise anti-democratic groups so much.
They were born out of the ruins of the war, which started because Weimar did not have laws like them. The US uses a sort of "free market of ideas" system, in which stupid ideas are ideally just not listened to.
The Weimar Republic had the same sort of system, which meant that anti-democratic and clearly anti-government parties were everywhere. And when the crisis hit, people turned to those parties.

But one could argue that it was a fairly unique set of events which led to a climate like this in Weimar, and that it wasn't necessary these days. But personally, as I said, I don't mind kicking skinheads in the teeth regardless of which way you do it.
The Atlantian islands
18-12-2005, 04:49
That's were the debate comes in. Personally I can live with them, simply because I hate all forms of Nazism, Racism and otherwise anti-democratic groups so much.
They were born out of the ruins of the war, which started because Weimar did not have laws like them. The US uses a sort of "free market of ideas" system, in which stupid ideas are ideally just not listened to.
The Weimar Republic had the same sort of system, which meant that anti-democratic and clearly anti-government parties were everywhere. And when the crisis hit, people turned to those parties.

But one could argue that it was a fairly unique set of events which led to a climate like this in Weimar, and that it wasn't necessary these days. But personally, as I said, I don't mind kicking skinheads in the teeth regardless of which way you do it.

Yeah, I doubt anyone minds giving a Neo-Nazi a good old fasions one two, lol. But like you said it was a unique set of events and those types of groups are nearly as large as they were during that time. Not that these laws arnt for a good cause, its jut that I dont think they are nessecasry, I mean, to me, it seems like the government just getting into more things than it needs to. Thats all, I dont think there reasons are wrong, just dont think they need to do it. (I'm a small government kinda guy).