NationStates Jolt Archive

So if i propose and acted upon making Illinios succeed from the USA, does that make me a terrorist or a young revolutionary? Or what if I militantly oppose the government, but not the Constitution and this Nation and its citizens, would that make me guilty of treason? Just curious...

Depends on if you're successful or not...

I don't know, but I can assure you that Canada will welcome trade and dialogue with the Sovereign Nation of Illinoistan.

The first one was settled in the civil war. Besides, why do you want to make us leave anyway?
The second one is protected by the constitution and would therefore not be treason, it would be perfectly legal.

Depends on if you're successful or not...


Ahh thats true..I mean I'd allow the US citizens to move freely in and out of here..And I would try to be as peaceful as possible with the US..I'd share water ways..and the skies would be free to Airlines...I just want to make Illinois its own nation

The first one was settled in the civil war. Besides, why do you want to make us leave anyway?
The second one is protected by the constitution and would therefore not be treason, it would be perfectly legal.


Why do I want us to leave the Union? I think we could prosper even more so if we were allowed to rule ourselves as a nation..I mean..Have you seen Southern Illinois? its a dump...and there is nothing the National government is doing..and our state gov't is just as bad.

So if i propose and acted upon making Illinios succeed from the USA, does that make me a terrorist or a young revolutionary? Or what if I militantly oppose the government, but not the Constitution and this Nation and its citizens, would that make me guilty of treason? Just curious...

As Chicago would try and control the political process of and create the Peoples Republic of Illinois, I, for one, would consider you a terrorist and make it the mission of the Ashmore Light Infantry Militia to have to hunt you down.

Btw..I wonder id G. W. is having someone monitor me now? :p

Ah well..this was just a hypothetical question..Not like i am going to actually do it...or am I? :p

Why do I want us to leave the Union? I think we could prosper even more so if we were allowed to rule ourselves as a nation..I mean..Have you seen Southern Illinois? its a dump...and there is nothing the National government is doing..and our state gov't is just as bad.

You're defining S. ILL as anything below I-80 or below I-70? The latter I agree w/ but Central Illinois is quite nice.

As Chicago would try and control the political process of and create the Peoples Republic of Illinois, I, for one, would consider you a terrorist and make it the mission of the Ashmore Light Infantry Militia to have to hunt you down.
Flee to Ontario if need be! Asylum will be granted! Anything in the interest of liberating the Chicago Black Hawks from America's unappreciative hockey fans!

As Chicago would try and control the political process of and create the Peoples Republic of Illinois, I, for one, would consider you a terrorist and make it the mission of the Ashmore Light Infantry Militia to have to hunt you down.


Oh Chicago is going to be powerless.. I plan on that right now. Thats part of the reason I want to control this state as a nation. Get that power away from Chicago

You're defining S. ILL as anything below I-80 or below I-70? The latter I agree w/ but Central Illinois is quite nice.


Yeah I define Southern Illinois mainly as the Area Code 618

Oh Chicago is going to be powerless.. I plan on that right now. Thats part of the reason I want to control this state as a nation. Get that power away from Chicago

How would you wrest control away from the Daleycrats*?





*Note: a completely separate entity from Democrats but sharing the same name.

You would be a young revolutionary if you escaped alive. Otherwise, you'd be a dead terrorist.

As for seceding, several hundred thousand lives were lost deciding that question almost 150 years ago. Being a Californian, I do sympathize with your desire to have your state cease being part of the US, though.

Doesn't matter either way as Daley would have you assassinated for mucking around in his backyard.

Well um..I am done with this thread......-cough-...I just had the wierdest thing happen..My internet screwed up like...really bad....And then..my mom called..by while on the phone..We BOTH heard several clickings...umm...No more revolution talk from me..not if i wanna live:p:eek:

Flee to Ontario if need be! Asylum will be granted! Anything in the interest of liberating the Chicago Black Hawks from America's unappreciative hockey fans!
chicago has a hocky team??

Well um..I am done with this thread......-cough-...I just had the wierdest thing happen..My internet screwed up like...really bad....And then..my mom called..by while on the phone..We BOTH heard several clickings...umm...No more revolution talk from me..not if i wanna live:p:eek:

Coward.

How can you claim to be a revolutionary when a few clicks on a phone scares you off.

Why only Illinois? Why not liberate the whole midwest!! I shall work on the missouri front!

terrorism is a tactic not a philosophy. it depends on how you carry out your revolution that makes you a terrorist or not.

if you target civilians as a means of getting them to go along with your revolution by keeping them scared, then you are a terrorist. (and a revolutionary)

if you attack only soldiers or governments, then you are a revolutionary. isnt advocating the violent overthrow of the government treason?

With the Patriot Act currently in place, the definition of "terrorist" is "anyone John Ashcroft says is a terrorist". They do not need burden of proof or warrants or judges or anything. Homeland Security decides if you are a terrorist.

You may or may not get a lawyer. Habeus corpus is effectively nullified, and they can hold you indefinitely without charging you with anything.

But if enough people speak out that the government cant make them all disappear in the night, then maybe you got a shot at it.

You'll have to motivate some really large numbers to make it happen, though. Good luck. If democracy is alive and well, you may succeed in seceding.

I have a feeling you're more likely to see Guantanamo first.

isnt advocating the violent overthrow of the government treason?

Treason is either attacking or aiding those who aid and attack the nation, so yeah.

Btw..I wonder id G. W. is having someone monitor me now? :p

Ah well..this was just a hypothetical question..Not like i am going to actually do it...or am I? :p

I doubt it. GW is probably taking a shit or something more worthwhile.

hehe

So if i propose and acted upon making Illinios succeed from the USA, does that make me a terrorist or a young revolutionary? Or what if I militantly oppose the government, but not the Constitution and this Nation and its citizens, would that make me guilty of treason? Just curious...


Yes. Yes it would. It makes you a horrible person who should be punished by being sent to bed without dessert.

It would be quite treasonous to do but think of it this way. If you successfully make Illinois a sovereign nation then you will have your own nation free of America that you can run how you wish.

If you fail the flag of Illinois will be stuck up on every pick up truck with some snappy logo on in. I think "these colours don't run" has been taken though. Illinois pride!

TITLE 18 > PART I > CHAPTER 115 > § 2381 Treason
Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.

TITLE 18 > PART I > CHAPTER 115 > § 2383 Rebellion or Insurrection
Whoever incites, sets on foot, assists, or engages in any rebellion or insurrection against the authority of the United States or the laws thereof, or gives aid or comfort thereto, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.

TITLE 18 > PART I > CHAPTER 115 > § 2384 Seditious Conspiracy
If two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, conspire to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, or to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof, they shall each be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both.

TITLE 18 > PART I > CHAPTER 115 > § 2385 Advocating Overthrow of Government
Whoever knowingly or willfully advocates, abets, advises, or teaches the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying the government of the United States or the government of any State, Territory, District or Possession thereof, or the government of any political subdivision therein, by force or violence, or by the assassination of any officer of any such government; or Whoever, with intent to cause the overthrow or destruction of any such government, prints, publishes, edits, issues, circulates, sells, distributes, or publicly displays any written or printed matter advocating, advising, or teaching the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying any government in the United States by force or violence, or attempts to do so; or Whoever organizes or helps or attempts to organize any society, group, or assembly of persons who teach, advocate, or encourage the overthrow or destruction of any such government by force or violence; or becomes or is a member of, or affiliates with, any such society, group, or assembly of persons, knowing the purposes thereof— Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both, and shall be ineligible for employment by the United States or any department or agency thereof, for the five years next following his conviction. If two or more persons conspire to commit any offense named in this section, each shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both, and shall be ineligible for employment by the United States or any department or agency thereof, for the five years next following his conviction. As used in this section, the terms “organizes” and “organize”, with respect to any society, group, or assembly of persons, include the recruiting of new members, the forming of new units, and the regrouping or expansion of existing clubs, classes, and other units of such society, group, or assembly of persons.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode18/usc_sup_01_18_10_I_20_115.html

Ahh thats true..I mean I'd allow the US citizens to move freely in and out of here..And I would try to be as peaceful as possible with the US..I'd share water ways..and the skies would be free to Airlines...I just want to make Illinois its own nation

Here's the trick...Bribe the president.
With our current leader's intellect, a nice calzone or other baked pastry should do the trick. Perhaps insert a small document with the note "By eating this document, you agree," attached, surely cementing your new nation's place in society.

your only a terrorist if you are violent about it. the problem with seceeding from the US is that you would be surrounded by a foriegn nation. the other problems that you may have is comming up with your own army to proctect yourself on all sides, in my opinion boarder patrol would be pretty weak.

The problem in the civil war was that the south was violent about it. because they shot first, it made people that were impartial about secesion became radicaly opposed to it when the south actualy fired on the union. so if you fire on the US, or act violently towards the covernment, then you would be considered a terrorist. :mp5:

So if i propose and acted upon making Illinios succeed from the USA, does that make me a terrorist or a young revolutionary? Or what if I militantly oppose the government, but not the Constitution and this Nation and its citizens, would that make me guilty of treason? Just curious...
You would probably see yourself as a freedom-fighter or a revolutionary. The government, taking a rather dim view of that sort of thing, would most likely label you a traitor, perhaps a terrorist too depending on your methods. :p

So if i propose and acted upon making Illinios succeed from the USA, does that make me a terrorist or a young revolutionary? Or what if I militantly oppose the government, but not the Constitution and this Nation and its citizens, would that make me guilty of treason? Just curious...

Don't leave us Illinios! We need our corn!!

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode18/usc_sup_01_18_10_I_20_115.html
And don't forget all the "conspiracy" and "collusion" laws on the books, such as the RICO statues. :D

So if i propose and acted upon making Illinios succeed from the USA, does that make me a terrorist or a young revolutionary? Or what if I militantly oppose the government, but not the Constitution and this Nation and its citizens, would that make me guilty of treason? Just curious...
I stick to the pre-Age of Redefinition definition of terrorism. To quote the Fontana Dictionary of Modern Thought (1977 Impression):
terrorism. The policy of actively using terror to break the spirit of resistence to a particular political movement by inculcating the fear of death, mutilation, and torture, or of similar action against resisters' families and dependants . . . Terrorism can be both official and counter-revolutionary (e.g. Hitler's and Mussolini's use of it) as well as revolutionary.
So even if you were militant, you may not be a terrorist. If you stuck to trying to build a conventional army and holding Illinois or any area militarily, that wouldn't be classed as terrorism by me. If you started bombing other cities, kidnapped GWB's daughter, tortured resisters and their families, then you'd be a terrorist in my books.

Regardless of what you actually did, of course, the government would call you a terrorist.