NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/12/16/patriot.act/index.html

Do personal liberties have a fighting chance after all??? :eek:

http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/12/16/patriot.act/index.html

Do personal liberties have a fighting chance after all??? :eek:

Hooray!!!

The day the Patriot Act expires will become an annual festival in my home.

It's a festivus miracle.

I don't ask for much. I'd just like to be shown how the Patriot Act prevented ONE act of terrorism that could not have been prevented without it.

Then, at least, I'd have to debate in my mind how many lives are worth the liberties and freedoms that represent everything my country stands for.

Until then, however, there isn't even a debate. The Patriot Act is as unpatriotic as it gets.

Maybe they did it so they could say look, first we enacted laws to fight terrorists and then we rejected laws that infringe upon civil liberties. We are teh awesome, vote for us!

I don't ask for much. I'd just like to be shown how the Patriot Act prevented ONE act of terrorism that could not have been prevented without it.

Then, at least, I'd have to debate in my mind how many lives are worth the liberties and freedoms that represent everything my country stands for.

Until then, however, there isn't even a debate. The Patriot Act is as unpatriotic as it gets.
Unfortunatly, the only way to prove that is to have a Terrorist act succeed in the US after the Patriot Act is done and gone. And should one happen, you know that the Next 'Patriot Act' may be worse and perhaps permament. :(

no matter what my problem with the Patriot Act is, the moment we loose the vigilance, we become open targets again.

After all, how many times did the terrorists attempt to bring down the WTC before 9/11... 3? 4?

Note: Neither arguing for nor against the Act. Just don't want to see another 9/11 occure anywhere.

Nobody wants to see another 9/11. But I'm not willing to sacrifice my ideals to prevent them.

It's a great day for America.

Well, it's a good move. Personally, I feel it should be gradually rolled back like this now that the risk of terrorism has fallen.

CONGRESS DID SOMETHING RIGHT???

omg

now we just need to strike down that Flag Desecration Amendment....

It's sad that they are killing it, really. USA PATRIOT actt, it is true, is starting to outlive its usefulness, but not entirely. Terrorism is still a threat. A gradual phase out should be written into the law, maybe by 2010. There must also be a provision where, after the phase-out, the President can invoke the act if another terrorist attack occurs in the US.

W007! Patriot Act = t3h pwn3d

That's what you get for trying to push through a f***ing retarded law that infringes on basic rights when you have no more credibility. I'm personally suprised that it got through the House though.

Viva la liberty!

Pardon my French, especially if it is incorrect.

This is not an attempt to belittle the French people/nation or military.

I'll be shit, they did some for liberty.

Wow. It's amazing what happens when there is an election next year.....

Viva la liberty!

Pardon my French, especially if it is incorrect.

This is not an attempt to belittle the French people/nation or military.

Vive la liberte, I think. (Twenty years since french class).

There are a few francophones around here, I am sure they'll know for sure.

Wow. It's amazing what happens when there is an election next year.....

Maybe it will just be allowed to quitely die now. Like the assault weapons ban.

Wow. It's amazing what happens when there is an election next year.....
Just make sure that everyone knows just who took a stand against the PATRIOT Act--the first cloture vote was 52-47. The 46 who stood with the filibuster (Frist voted against cloture for procedural reasons) were 41 Democrats, 1 Independent, and 4 Republicans--Sununu, Murkowski, Craig and Hagel. Good for those 4, but especially good for everyone who stood with Feingold this time. If only they'd stood with him the first time.

Unfortunatly, the only way to prove that [Patriot Act prevented ONE act of terrorism] is to have a Terrorist act succeed in the US after the Patriot Act is done and gone. That wouldn't prove anything. Such an event may well have been successful with the Patriot Act in place. In addition, the Patriot Act is only one aspect of the administration's disregard of civil liberties in the name of fighting terrorism. The NSA's monitoring of U.S. citizen's cross-border communications isn't dependent on authorization from the Act, for example. Interestingly, if perhaps a little paranoic, any future terrorist act on U.S. soil will be questioned as "having been allowed" by the government in order to "prove" that the Patriot Act provisions are indeed necessary.

no matter what my problem with the Patriot Act is, the moment we loose the vigilance, we become open targets again.It hasn't been shown that the Patriot Act has anything to do with successful vigilance, at least certainly not this thread.

Note: Neither arguing for nor against the Act. Just don't want to see another 9/11 occure anywhere.No one does.

All right for the Senate...the Patriot Act is not necessary. What's necessary is some common-sense security in places where they would be needed, such as airports, arenas, etc. Such venues are capable of taking care of security themselves, and if the government is going to take any action, it should be with regard to this type of security. Searching people's library records is not exactly productive.

It's sad that they are killing it, really. USA PATRIOT actt, it is true, is starting to outlive its usefulness, but not entirely. Terrorism is still a threat. A gradual phase out should be written into the law, maybe by 2010. There must also be a provision where, after the phase-out, the President can invoke the act if another terrorist attack occurs in the US.
It was never useful. The most useful thing we did was freeze bank accounts, which had nothing to do with the patriot act. Terrorism will ALWAYS be a threat. Me giving up my right to dissent or my rights to privacy won't stop it. At best, it will delay. Why was no war started and no patriot act instated over the USS Cole, the African embassy bombings, WTC '93, etc.? Yes, many more people died in 9/11, but 9/11 happened because of many factors, among which was the fact that we did not use the resources that we HAD. Had those been used properly, then perhaps things would have turned out differently. The answer isn't forcing people to give up rights. It is learning from the mistakes of the past and not making them again.

Not to mention, there is nothing we can do to prevent attacks such as the one in Bali, where hundreds were killed, and many were Americans.

Living in fear of "the next one" is not living. It will happen one day. There is little question about that. Our airport security is no better, not to mention sport facilities, car bombs (remember, Oklahoma was done with a car mounted bomb)...Its unfortunate(that isn't nearly a strong enough word, but I can't think of a stronger one that fits), but it is also inevitable. Why live in fear? Isn't that letting the terrorists win?

no matter what my problem with the Patriot Act is, the moment we loose the vigilance, we become open targets again.
That, my friend, is the answer. Why did 9/11 happen? We lost vigilance (okay, HUGE oversimplification, I know...) We had the tools in place to handle the threat, and didn't use them.

The answer? Learn from our mistakes. Don't let those 3000 in NYC, Penn, and DC have their deaths be in vain. Learn something, and fix the problems. The patriot act, as far as I can see, has done nothing for terrorism. The key is not to have a knee-jerk reaction (as I believe the patriot act was), but to look into what went wrong, and see to it that never happens again.

This news source has a liberal spin. It doesn't represent the PATRIOT Act in its true light: Good for America. Blah blah blah I'm crying in my beer la dee frickin' da yadda yadda yadda.

:rolleyes:

This news source has a liberal spin. It doesn't represent the PATRIOT Act in its true light: Good for America. Blah blah blah I'm crying in my beer la dee frickin' da yadda yadda yadda.

:rolleyes:

Then, pray tell, what is the "true light" of the bad, and easily abused law called the PATRIOT act?

This news source has a liberal spin. It doesn't represent the PATRIOT Act in its true light: Good for America. Blah blah blah I'm crying in my beer la dee frickin' da yadda yadda yadda.

:rolleyes:
what do you view as being good for america from the Patriot act (truly curious, not trying to be rude)?

Unabashed Greed, Sarkhaan, I do believe that SA was actually pre-empting those who would come along sooner or later to defend the Patriot act. Sarcasm is something that often flies over peoples heads here.

Unabashed Greed, Sarkhaan, I do believe that SA was actually pre-empting those who would come along sooner or later to defend the Patriot act. Sarcasm is something that often flies over peoples heads here.

Sorry, it takes a couple of reads. It's not easy to read sarcasm. Without vocal inflection to rely on, one has to be slightly more overt for me to get it, heh.

Personally I have no idea what the Patriot act is, but if the Liberals oppose it, I don't really care to know.

Unabashed Greed, Sarkhaan, I do believe that SA was actually pre-empting those who would come along sooner or later to defend the Patriot act. Sarcasm is something that often flies over peoples heads here.
*sigh*. I usually catch the sarcasm. I blame it on being up for the last 30 hours and the 3 shots I've done.

dammit, now I'm one of those people.