NationStates Jolt Archive

With all the recent talk from Iran about the Holocaust being a myth, I decided to do a little research into the news story as a hole. I had read somewhere(I believe on this site) that the Polish government, in 1990, had lowered the number of Jewish deaths to around 1.1 million.

I found this site:

http://www.stormfront.org/truth_at_last/holocaust.htm

And I'm not sure whether to believe it or not. I'm trying to get both sides of the story and eventually connect the dots. Though the author of the article seems like a blatant Holocaust denier[because he gives reasons mass extermination could be impossible/quotes from men in Nuremburg not knowing what a Jewish extermination is], I am really unsure of what to believe.

Keep in mind, I am in no way denying a Holocaust in general never occured. It could possibly that the modern day school systems and overall beliefs are truly exagarating the death toll. I am just curious as to what everyone here thinks of this website and the 'proof' the author conlude with. Thanks.

Stormfront is a white supremacist neo nazi organization. Somehow I don't think their version of the holocaust is very trustworthy.

I went to Auschwitz last March. The number of people killed in that camp complex alone (according to the book I bought there, published by the museum) would exceed that total.

The Nazis kept meticulous paper records for each shipment of people (Jews and others), and kept records on how many of each were in each shipment. They even counted Jehovah's Witnesses.

Not all were immediately "selected", although there were some shipments who were. Many people were worked to death in the camps.

It's easy enough to see from the records of the final year of operation, when they were doing around 5,000 people per day, and you subtract the people who were left in the camp when it was liberated, that at least that many people were killed in the last year alone. While most of them were Jews, the SS killed quite a few other people as well, including Soviet prisoners, homosexuals, Catholics, Poles, Socialists, Communists, people caught in acts of resistance, and anyone else that they decided was undesirable.

If you consider the small number of Jews who were left after the war, no matter how you slice it, it's still a Holocaust, and still an intentional act of genocide. You only have to read the notes from the Wannsee Conference and see the books at Auschwitz to know this.

I would encourage everyone to visit both Auschwitz and Dachau - once you've seen them, and you've read the notes from the Wannsee Conference, you'll wonder how anyone could deny it was a Holocaust.

Not just for Jews, but for anyone who opposed, might have opposed, or was thought to oppose Nazism.

Read the diaries of some of the people who worked in the camps - SS orderlies, SS men, doctors - they all wrote it down. Some testified after the war about what they did - and in their testimony, most of them sound rather proud of it.

Alright thank you Deep Kimchi. I'm going to Germany next year for a family reunion, maybe I could be able to take an extra few weeks off to go to Poland.

Watch "Night and Fog", if you can stomach it. It's pretty difficult to "fake" piles of dead emaciated corpses being bulldozered.

Stormfront is a white supremacist neo nazi organization. Somehow I don't think their version of the holocaust is very trustworthy.

Exactly. I wouldn't trust them so readily. And why do all neo-nazis have German screennames when many aren't even German? All it does is hurt Germany's reputation even more.

Read this. Read all of it. I would also urge you to get the DVD of the movie, "Conspiracy", which is merely a re-enactment of the meeting according to the document at the link below.

http://www.ghwk.de/engl/protengl.htm

I guess its hard for the average person to understand the mentality behind minds that could participate in assembly-line style mass murder and disposal that also needs to keep an accurate accounting of it.

I guess its hard for the average person to understand the mentality behind minds that could participate in assembly-line style mass murder and disposal that also needs to keep an accurate accounting of it.
What is apparent from reading their personal diaries is that they started out as normal people, thinking they were doing the right thing.

One man was asked, "You were in Himmler's presence many times, carrying a pistol, and you knew what was going on - why didn't you shoot him?" And he answered, "The thought never entered my mind." And when the typical SS man was asked why the Jews were to be eliminated, the common answer was, "It must be so!"

They also knew the world would have a mixed reaction to their acts. On one hand, many SS men thought that they would follow their victims into the ovens in order to cover up "the crime", because many people worldwide would think it was heinous beyond belief. And on the other hand, they thought that many people worldwide would secretly admire them for the act.

Funny how that's true - some people are shocked and horrified - and some secretly think it was the greatest thing since sliced bread.

This is my what-the-fuck for the day. Using Stormfront as a reliable source.

This is my what-the-fuck for the day. Using Stormfront as a reliable source.

heh, I agree with you here :D

The debate over the holocaust is pretty much binary. either you say it never happened, or you believe it happened. Saying "figures could have been as low as 1.1 million" is like saying "It was hotter than -100 degress" It's still millions dead, asshole! 1 million or 6 million, what different does it make? The holocaust is a fact, and not debatable.

Well, for number of people dying, I have no idea. I havnt heard any actual facts that prove it was the widely accepted number of around 6 million, except for like neo nazi bullshit. But to me...does it really matter how many MILLIONS died? Whether its 1 million or 6, its still insanely terrible, and its still a holocaust. When people throw around the word million in relating to murdered peopl, I dont think they truley understand how much that really is.
JUST 1 million people is still MORE than the equivalent of wiping out every person in luxemburg AND lichestenstein....its also the roughly the same as 1/8 of the population of Austria.....now if we get to 6 million, thats about 3/4 the population of Austria...DEAD.

Anyway...here is my main post. The other day I was at my Jewish community center (JCC) (I'm Jewish) and I was touring this holocaust memorial room they have. The person told us that behind this glass mirror, they have several things from the holocaust, lamp shades made from Jew skin, soap made from Jew skin...etc, naturally they wouldnt open it up and let us see those things for ourselves. Now to me this sounded a LITTLE strange...soap made from Jews? Anyway I went home and did some researching and sure enough, on all the holocaust web sites it says that the Nazis made soap from Jews.....but then I found one web site that disproved it all, saying that this is totally 100% false, now I know what your thinking, it was a neo nazi group...but it wasnt! http://www.vex.net/~nizkor/features/techniques-of-denial/appendix-7-02.html and heres the background on him so you all know he is a credible source. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yehuda_Bauer If this guy is a neo nazi, I'd eat my shorts. He is a Professor of Holocaust Studies at the Avraham Harman Institute of Contemporary Jewry at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem. So guys, I have some questions that I desperatly need answering.....why all the widspread lies about this? and even more important if this isnt factual, are there other things that may not be 100% correct?

Please, it is very important that I get some replies to this and I urge EVERYONE to read the links I sent you.

I had read somewhere(I believe on this site) that the Polish government, in 1990, had lowered the number of Jewish deaths to around 1.1 million.

The 1.1 million figure is just for deaths at Auschwitz, not for the entirity of the Holocaust.

So guys, I have some questions that I desperatly need answering.....why all the widspread lies about this? and even more important if this isnt factual, are there other things that may not be 100% correct?

Please, it is very important that I get some replies to this and I urge EVERYONE to read the links I sent you.

Yes, they made soap and lamps, but not on the scale that they did other things. It's well-documented - they were taking an industrial approach to this, and wanted the exercise to pay for itself.

On arrival, people's belongings were taken from them - sorted and catalogued for sale and distribution back in the German population. Women's hair was shorn and used for upholstery stuffing and insulated clothing. After they were gassed and before they were burned, gold teeth were cut from their mouths and fingers with rings were cut off if the rings didn't come off easily.

The jewelry and gold were sorted and catalogued as well.

It's in many of the SS mens' diaries. It's in the SS order. In their regulations (concerning personal looting - the property of the Jews belongs to the State!).

Neat calculations they wrote down - how long you could work a man until he died.

Thank you to the people who responded.

What I find more sad and alarming is that since all of this happened before the invention of the paper shredder, causing all Nazi documents on the situation to be readily available, that this is even a matter for debate.

Yes, they made soap and lamps, but not on the scale that they did other things. It's well-documented - they were taking an industrial approach to this, and wanted the exercise to pay for itself.

On arrival, people's belongings were taken from them - sorted and catalogued for sale and distribution back in the German population. Women's hair was shorn and used for upholstery stuffing and insulated clothing. After they were gassed and before they were burned, gold teeth were cut from their mouths and fingers with rings were cut off if the rings didn't come off easily.

The jewelry and gold were sorted and catalogued as well.

It's in many of the SS mens' diaries. It's in the SS order. In their regulations (concerning personal looting - the property of the Jews belongs to the State!).

Neat calculations they wrote down - how long you could work a man until he died.

Right...and you still didnt even comment at all about what I posted....so uh thanks?:rolleyes:

May I Godwin this thread now?

May I Godwin this thread now?

Uh, you may?

My grandfather told me that he (and the rest of his support column) had been sent to look at one of the death camps that had been found in their sector. The reasoning was that the brass wanted as many people as possible to see this, so that nobody could ever deny that it happened.
Of course, now all of the witnesses are dead or dying (I doubt there'll be any left in another ten years) so fuckwits think they can deny six million people were murdered without fear of contradiction.
I could torture a few holocaust deniers to death and feel better at the end of the day, as one does when one has done something that one can feel proud of. One of the most civilised countries in Europe was turned into a fucking abatoir for six or seven years and these cunts want to deny it ever happened? The former case is an abomination: the latter is low comedy, albeit of the sort that only the damned could ever laugh at.

Atlantian: the thing that always appals me is that they killed the children first: they wouldn't grasp their new status, survive on starvation rations or be any use as slave labour, so they had to go. It's impossible to describe something that appalling without falling back on the terms fundamentalists use to castigate homosexuals.

May I Godwin this thread now?

You just did. :D