NationStates Jolt Archive

Could it be??

It would appear that the PATRIOT act will not pass the senate (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051215/ap_on_go_co/patriot_act;_ylt=AnPD4qnho7Ex1J2GJ5kuBrOs0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA3OXIzMDMzBHNlYwM3MDM-) now as it stands!

And, what's better is the BI-patisan group of senators that are set against it, including an NRA board member. Is the US government finally coming to its senses? Let's hope so...

It is about time that civil libertarians of both parties stepped up to the plate and put an end to the travesty that is the Patriot Act.

(This may be one of the best things Sen. Larry Craig has done in his entire career.)

I hope it holds. That could be the issue that catapults Russ Feingold to the top of the heap in the Democratic primaries in 2008, and I'd vote for him in a heartbeat.

It is about time that civil libertarians of both parties stepped up to the plate and put an end to the travesty that is the Patriot Act.
Couldn't agree with you more

It is about time that civil libertarians of both parties stepped up to the plate and put an end to the travesty that is the Patriot Act.

(This may be one of the best things Sen. Larry Craig has done in his entire career.)
After seeing this article (http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/15/politics/15cnd-program.html?ex=1292302800&en=63736654e4101aee&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss), I think it's time for the so-called Libertarian wing of the Republican party to put up or shut up.
WASHINGTON, Dec. 15 *- Months after the Sept. 11 attacks, President Bush secretly authorized the National Security Agency to eavesdrop on Americans and others inside the United States to search for evidence of terrorist activity without the court-approved warrants ordinarily required for domestic spying, according to government officials.

Under a presidential order signed in 2002, the intelligence agency has monitored the international telephone calls and international e-mail messages of hundreds, perhaps thousands, of people inside the United States without warrants over the past three years in an effort to track possible "dirty numbers" linked to Al Qaeda, the officials said. The agency, they said, still seeks warrants to monitor entirely domestic communications.

The previously undisclosed decision to permit some eavesdropping inside the country without court approval represents a major shift in American intelligence-gathering practices, particularly for the National Security Agency, whose mission is to spy on communications abroad. As a result, some officials familiar with the continuing operation have questioned whether the surveillance has stretched, if not crossed, constitutional limits on legal searches.

"This is really a sea change," said a former senior official who specializes in national security law. "It's almost a mainstay of this country that the N.S.A. only does foreign searches."

Nearly a dozen current and former officials, who were granted anonymity because of the classified nature of the program, discussed it with reporters for The New York Times because of their concerns about the operation's legality and oversight.
I hope they call Bush out on this, but I don't hold out much hope for it.

I can't say I have had my civil liberties threatened or violated by the PATRIOT ACT.

I can't say I have had my civil liberties threatened or violated by the PATRIOT ACT.Yet. You can't say that yet. And considering the level of secrecy the government is afforded under the act, you can't even say that for certain--you can only say that you don't know if your civil liberties have been violated by the government using the PATRIOT Act.

Yet. You can't say that yet. And considering the level of secrecy the government is afforded under the act, you can't even say that for certain--you can only say that you don't know if your civil liberties have been violated by the government using the PATRIOT Act.

You're absolutely right. Here are a couple of scary examples.

The government can obtain your private records, like medical, library, school and other records—without showing any connection between your activities and a suspected foreign terrorist.

Some 30,000 National Security Letters ("NSLs") are issued each year to obtain private records, and the recipients of those NSLs are under a gag order that is almost impossible to overturn. But the Patriot Act does nothing to address these abusive powers.

The government is allowed to get "sneak and peek" search warrants to search a home or business and doesn't have to tell the owner of the premises for a month. This power can be used in cases that don't have anything to do with terrorism.

The important thing is that the process is at work.. the PA should be reviewed and renewed (or amended) on a regular basis, regardless what's in it.. as long as we can cut the fat from it, or add extra provisions as needed, the process works.

I can't say I have had my civil liberties threatened or violated by the PATRIOT ACT.

Ah, but you may have and don't know it. The PA's gag order and sneek and peek provisions allow invasions of liberties without the subject knowing about it.

Moreoever, your argument is a dangerous one.

First they came for the Jews
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the Communists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left
to speak out for me.

--Pastor Martin Niemöller

Ah, but you may have and don't know it. The PA's gag order and sneek and peek provisions allow invasions of liberties without the subject knowing about it.

Moreoever, your argument is a dangerous one.

First they came for the Jews
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the Communists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left
to speak out for me.

--Pastor Martin Niemöller


I will have to remember that quote lol

I will have to remember that quote lol

Please don't.. we're already nearing near-lethal levels of cliche.. feels like 400 rems already.. *passes out*

It is about time that civil libertarians of both parties stepped up to the plate and put an end to the travesty that is the Patriot Act.

(This may be one of the best things Sen. Larry Craig has done in his entire career.)

I can't believe I'm agreeing with you. The Patriot Act has always been totally unnecessary. Hopefully it will be gone soon.

Thankfully politicans are responding as they should during pre-election time tables and reforming themselves to look good enough for re-election.

Do us all a favor however and pick and choose some keepers like McCain (or whoever you personally feel is more qualified) and vote the rest of the bums out of Congress. Gun for guys like Tom Delay, Frist (other neo-cons), Kennedy, and get them the hell out. They have been making WAY to many screw ups.

All I want from the PATRIOT Act is for it to be used as it was intended: to take down terrorists in situations where our normal judicial system would be inadequate.

Can't we do that? Isn't there an 'Easy Button' we can push to make it work for what it was intended to? The PATRIOT Act should be bad for terrorism and good for us, and yet, from some angles that doesn't seem to be the case.

I really don't want the government to use the PATRIOT Act to track down those illegal firearms I own ('cause I live in California, and hate myself for it) under the auspices of terrorism. That's bullshit.