NationStates Jolt Archive


Stay in school or don't drive says McIdiot government

Plator
15-12-2005, 22:43
Ontario poised to introduce school bill Tuesday (December 13, 2005)

Canadian Press

Toronto — Ontario students who drop out of high school won't be able to get their driver's licence under legislation set to be introduced today.

It's one of the penalties included in the government's proposed law to keep kids learning until age 18 to ensure they graduate.

Education Minister Gerard Kennedy says this will send a strong signal to kids that getting their high school diploma is a serious matter.

The government's aim is to cut the province's current 30 per cent dropout rate in half by 2010.

Mr. Kennedy says students getting their licence will have to show a document to the Ministry of Transportation that indicates they're an active student who hasn't been missing school.

The minister says the penalty won't come into effect until schools establish a wider array of courses and add more co-op and apprenticeship programs to keep at-risk students in school.

About 45,000 high school students each year leave before they've earned their diploma.

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I think the government is wasting its time here. I would hate to have someone in class with me, especially in the last couple of years, who was only there to get their driver's license. I think they would be a distraction from those who actually want to learn. What a waste of time. The Ontario Liberals are once again proving themselves namesakes of their leader McIdiot!
Amoebistan
15-12-2005, 22:46
Question for the Ontario Liberals: do people actually have to get passing grades in high school? If not, your plan's a sack of shit.

If so, it is reasonable but needs work.

Still, it's not as if there aren't people who are just in high school so they can say they have a degree, and don't care about their GPA - do you hate being in school with them, too? Because you can't get rid of them; might as well keep treading water/teenagers and finish with a good GPA so you can get into a good tertiary school.

For what it's worth, I went to high school to learn what I wanted (hard sciences and history) and because of my low GPA, high test scores didn't get me into all the schools I wanted.
Tactical Grace
15-12-2005, 22:46
If it were up to me, they wouldn't be able to vote until they finished high school.
Iztatepopotla
15-12-2005, 22:48
30 per cent drop out rate is very high, in my view. The article doesn't say anything about why so many students drop out, I doubt it's only so they can drive cars. I think the government is just dancing around the real issue either because it's too difficult to attack or too embarrasing to admit.
Pure Metal
15-12-2005, 22:48
If it were up to me, they wouldn't be able to vote until they finished high school.
:p i like the way you think!

maybe a little extreme for me, but i quite like this idea in the OP
Lacadaemon
15-12-2005, 22:49
Has anyone else ever noticed that we are forcing people to stay in school longer, while at the same time - because of economic pressures - forcing people to retire later?

I suppose that BA in poli-sci makes the burger taste better, but it still seems like fucking madness to me.
Plator
15-12-2005, 22:51
If it were up to me, they wouldn't be able to vote until they finished high school.
Now there's an idea. But it could interfere with that whole Charter of Rights and Freedoms thing. :sniper:
Plator
15-12-2005, 22:53
30 per cent drop out rate is very high, in my view. The article doesn't say anything about why so many students drop out, I doubt it's only so they can drive cars. I think the government is just dancing around the real issue either because it's too difficult to attack or too embarrasing to admit.
The real issue is that the Ontario Liberals are MORONS!!!!!!!!!!!
oh yeah and BOOBIES (see different string re: student stripping, lol)
Dakini
15-12-2005, 22:53
Fucking sweet!

Does that mean they'll revoke my sister's G1?
Plator
15-12-2005, 22:55
Fucking sweet!

Does that mean they'll revoke my sister's G1?
No if they've already dropped out it doesn't apply. The ole Grandfather Clause.
Dakini
15-12-2005, 22:58
No if they've already dropped out it doesn't apply. The ole Grandfather Clause.
Damn.
Dishonorable Scum
15-12-2005, 23:04
We have a similar law in North Carolina, and it also requires passing grades if students are to be allowed to drive. Fail a class, and you school reports it to the DMV, which promptly revokes your license.

I can predict the outraged reactions of the students, of course. But parents love it. It's one more way to make their kids try harder in school.

(Wouldn't have worked for me, though. My dad wouldn't let me use the car even when I got straight As, the bastard.)

:p
Teh_pantless_hero
15-12-2005, 23:07
If it were up to me, they wouldn't be able to vote until they finished high school.
Waste of your time legislating that. Making them unable to vote unless they made a passing grade in *insert country's* political history would actually work. The people getting through highschool in idiot classes are the problem we have right now.
Equus
15-12-2005, 23:10
Note that the "no driver's license unless you stay in school" law is partnered with new education initiatives to provide options for students unable or unwilling to go the academic route.

This law will not be enforced until those new initiatives are in place.

What is it in Ontario that encourages kids to drop out? I know in northern BC, lots of older teen males drop out of school to get good paying jobs on oil rigs (while the girls tend to stay in school) - is there a similar motivation in Ontario?
Utracia
15-12-2005, 23:15
Nice idea though it seems doubtful that there would be any serious enforcement to this.
Reverse Gravity
15-12-2005, 23:20
The people that stay in school just to drive will be a distraction to those at school that want to learn.
Not to mention a good portion of the kids that drop out of school are working: How are they supposed to get to their jobs?

The idea of keeping kids in school is noble, but the above method is not the brightest idea.

Denying people the right to vote for not graduating is a good idea. I know it goes against the whole freedom thing, but having educated people have more weight in decisions for national affairs is smart. As long as it does not go too far into the Socrates/Plato philosopher led government :D
Huynhs
15-12-2005, 23:34
The people that stay in school just to drive will be a distraction to those at school that want to learn.
Not to mention a good portion of the kids that drop out of school are working: How are they supposed to get to their jobs?


Ummm have you ever heard of public transit?
Jurgencube
15-12-2005, 23:37
Nice idea though it seems doubtful that there would be any serious enforcement to this.


OP says that in order to get a licence you need to show you are in school. Thus its as hard to enforce as making only drivers with licenes drive cars (pretty easy)

As for the argument the low lifes looking to stay for a licence will distract the class I see it as a problem. But I see them dropping out becoming unemployed and claiming benefits for the rest of their life because they have no skills a bigger problem.
Utracia
15-12-2005, 23:41
OP says that in order to get a licence you need to show you are in school. Thus its as hard to enforce as making only drivers with licenes drive cars (pretty easy)

I was thinking that if a student does poorly or drops out after he/she has their license, will the cops spend much time making sure that the kid isn't driving?
Teh_pantless_hero
15-12-2005, 23:41
Ummm have you ever heard of public transit?
There isn't viable public transit where I live.
Sinuhue
15-12-2005, 23:46
You know what? Not everyone needs, or benefits from an education. I'm being quite serious. Not finishing highschool != being a moron.
Huynhs
15-12-2005, 23:50
There isn't viable public transit where I live.

Well then they would have to explain that they can't drive to their boss because they dropped out of school to work something out. They could carpool, or take a cab, or pay a friend to drive them. There are many ways to get where you need to go. Heck I know people that bike to work even in winter. And once the law is in place i doubt someone would accept a job that is very out of the way to get to. That is one of the many considerations when looking for a job in the first place.
Sinuhue
15-12-2005, 23:59
Well then they would have to explain that they can't drive to their boss because they dropped out of school to work something out. They could carpool, or take a cab, or pay a friend to drive them. There are many ways to get where you need to go. Heck I know people that bike to work even in winter. And once the law is in place i doubt someone would accept a job that is very out of the way to get to. That is one of the many considerations when looking for a job in the first place.
Now you're bringing up the fact that this move could seriously impede a person's ability to earn a wage. And this seems very odd....can't you already get a license at 16? And isn't the legal drop-out age in most provinces 16? So what the hell? Are they changing that?
Fraser136
16-12-2005, 00:04
As for the argument the low lifes looking to stay for a licence will distract the class I see it as a problem. But I see them dropping out becoming unemployed and claiming benefits for the rest of their life because they have no skills a bigger problem. they would have one skill, the abilaty to drive a taxi.
Sinuhue
16-12-2005, 00:09
For those of you making the assumption that not finishing highschool means you'll be a bum on the street, let me tell you this.

My husband only finished up to grade 9. He worked for years, supporting his family, and when he was 28, he took a single semester of upgrading at a technical school, began an electrical apprenticeship, and makes three times what I do as a graduate from a 4 year diploma program in Education.

And for those of you who support punishing people who don't finish school by refusing them a licence:
My mother never finished highschool. She stayed home and raised us, and drove us to every doctor's appointment, piano lesson etc. We couldn't have made it to those things had she been prevented from driving. People living in the county don't have public transport to get them around.

Being able to get a license is not something that should be linked to finishing school.
Huynhs
16-12-2005, 00:10
Now you're bringing up the fact that this move could seriously impede a person's ability to earn a wage. And this seems very odd....can't you already get a license at 16? And isn't the legal drop-out age in most provinces 16? So what the hell? Are they changing that?

Yes you can get a G1 license when you are 16, it's all part of the graduated licensing in Ontario. Yes they are proposing to change the drop out age to 18 to keep kids in school long enough to get a diploma.
Seriously if you really need the money from a job then you will find a way to get to the job. Driving is not the only way of transportation, it is just the most convenient way. My mom can't even drive and she gets to work on time. You just have to find another way to get there instead of relying on a car all the time. And once the law is in place I'm sure most students would put that into consideration if they wanted to drop out before 18.
Keruvalia
16-12-2005, 00:37
We've had that in Texas for a while. I don't think it affected the dropout rate.
Plator
16-12-2005, 03:36
Note that the "no driver's license unless you stay in school" law is partnered with new education initiatives to provide options for students unable or unwilling to go the academic route.

This law will not be enforced until those new initiatives are in place.

What is it in Ontario that encourages kids to drop out? I know in northern BC, lots of older teen males drop out of school to get good paying jobs on oil rigs (while the girls tend to stay in school) - is there a similar motivation in Ontario?
Just too much dope and crack available. Plus stupid role models like that Fifty (fiddy?) Cent dude who promotes getting things the easy and violent way.
Plator
16-12-2005, 03:39
You know what? Not everyone needs, or benefits from an education. I'm being quite serious. Not finishing highschool != being a moron.
I would agree with that theory about 40 years ago. Today I think the majority are pretty much like the characters on Trailer Park Boys. Although that one dude did get his grade 10. ;)
Plator
16-12-2005, 03:41
Now you're bringing up the fact that this move could seriously impede a person's ability to earn a wage. And this seems very odd....can't you already get a license at 16? And isn't the legal drop-out age in most provinces 16? So what the hell? Are they changing that?
Drop-out age in Ontario will be moved to 18.
Plator
16-12-2005, 03:42
For those of you making the assumption that not finishing highschool means you'll be a bum on the street, let me tell you this.

My husband only finished up to grade 9. He worked for years, supporting his family, and when he was 28, he took a single semester of upgrading at a technical school, began an electrical apprenticeship, and makes three times what I do as a graduate from a 4 year diploma program in Education.

And for those of you who support punishing people who don't finish school by refusing them a licence:
My mother never finished highschool. She stayed home and raised us, and drove us to every doctor's appointment, piano lesson etc. We couldn't have made it to those things had she been prevented from driving. People living in the county don't have public transport to get them around.

Being able to get a license is not something that should be linked to finishing school.
Money ain't everything.
DrunkenDove
16-12-2005, 03:47
I'm torn between my hate of authoritarian government and love of education. Grrrrr.
Plator
16-12-2005, 03:59
I'm torn between my hate of authoritarian government and love of education. Grrrrr.
I'd say stupid authoritarian government. :headbang:
Sinuhue
16-12-2005, 04:48
I would agree with that theory about 40 years ago. Today I think the majority are pretty much like the characters on Trailer Park Boys. Although that one dude did get his grade 10. ;)
Come to Alberta...we're bussing in tradespeople, and it doesn't matter if you have your grade 7...as long as you have entered an apprenticeship, and can pass the courses required each year, you're in...making a LOT of money. The trades are still heavily male dominated...but that's beginning to change as women start to see what a lucrative career it is. At the mine my husband works at, the truck drivers make $110,000 a year. $110,000 for driving a truck.
Sinuhue
16-12-2005, 04:48
Money ain't everything.
Neither is education. Not everyone should, or needs to get a higher education...just as not everyone should, or needs to make a lot of money.
Dobbsworld
16-12-2005, 04:53
I prefer calling him 'McGimpy'. He's just another one of these 'Daddy-came-to-the-brink-of-political-success-so-I'll-play-up-my-family-ties'-types, like Bush and Paul Martin. Yes, Paul Martin.

Frankly, there's nothing so likely to make me not vote for somebody as riding their parents' political coattails.
Soviet Haaregrad
16-12-2005, 05:10
There isn't viable public transit where I live.

Wow, I sure wish I had an unviable public transit system near me... that would imply one even existed. :p
Soviet Haaregrad
16-12-2005, 05:26
Just too much dope and crack available. Plus stupid role models like that Fifty (fiddy?) Cent dude who promotes getting things the easy and violent way.

Don't blame drugs and celebrities for people being stupid and lazy, or for having extenuating circumstances.
Plator
17-12-2005, 20:58
Neither is education. Not everyone should, or needs to get a higher education...just as not everyone should, or needs to make a lot of money.
Well as human beings we should strive to better ourselves. I think education is a big part of that. Whether it be offical or just studying on your own.
Plator
17-12-2005, 21:00
I prefer calling him 'McGimpy'. He's just another one of these 'Daddy-came-to-the-brink-of-political-success-so-I'll-play-up-my-family-ties'-types, like Bush and Paul Martin. Yes, Paul Martin.

Frankly, there's nothing so likely to make me not vote for somebody as riding their parents' political coattails.
I'd vote for Justin Trudeau if he was a leader or a local candidate.
Novoga
18-12-2005, 05:07
I'd vote for Justin Trudeau if he was a leader or a local candidate.

God no, were still trying to pay for the last one. Although, his wife is hot.
Dobbsworld
18-12-2005, 05:20
I'd vote for Justin Trudeau if he was a leader or a local candidate.
On what basis, other than delivering his father's eulogy?
Pyvanian
18-12-2005, 05:29
I think it's a great idea also, I think I had something like... 20 kids drop outta my school kast year (6 from pregnancies), although, this really doesn't do anything for those kids who just sorta come to school, not do anything, and ride out on gratuity marks from bringing in cans or boxes of mac n'cheese in those can drives... BONUS MARKS ARE THE DEVIL!
Huynhs
18-12-2005, 05:33
I think it's a great idea also, I think I had something like... 20 kids drop outta my school kast year (6 from pregnancies), although, this really doesn't do anything for those kids who just sorta come to school, not do anything, and ride out on gratuity marks from bringing in cans or boxes of mac n'cheese in those can drives... BONUS MARKS ARE THE DEVIL!

????? What kind of school/teacher gives out bonus marks for bringing in canned goods?
Pyvanian
18-12-2005, 05:38
????? What kind of school/teacher gives out bonus marks for bringing in canned goods?
almost every teacher at my school bribes their classes... it's actually highly competitive at my school and we compete w/ the other local schools, hell, we get to dye the VPs hair if we get to 45k cans
the only teacher that isn't bribing is the one I brought cans in for
Anybodybutbushia
18-12-2005, 07:07
So Canada would have denied Albert Einstein a license?
Huynhs
18-12-2005, 07:32
So Canada would have denied Albert Einstein a license?
No.

And I'm assuming you are from the US from your name. We actually got this idea from some states that have the exact same law. So are you telling me the US would have denied Einstein a license?

We are talking about Ontario, it is ONE province in Canada, not the whole country (although some people, torontonians especially, would like to think as much).
Plator
18-12-2005, 18:23
No.

And I'm assuming you are from the US from your name. We actually got this idea from some states that have the exact same law. So are you telling me the US would have denied Einstein a license?

We are talking about Ontario, it is ONE province in Canada, not the whole country (although some people, torontonians especially, would like to think as much).
Toronto is not the whole country just the centre of it. ;)
Plator
18-12-2005, 18:25
On what basis, other than delivering his father's eulogy?
He's a smart dude. He just has an aura about him, kind of like JFK JR. did before he crashe his plane. Plus what the previous reply said - he has a hot wife. HAHAHHAHAHA. Just kidding on the last one.